Steve Gelberg and Nori Muster ICSA conference

[PADA: First of all, Steve Gelberg (Subhananda dasa) was a huge cheer leader / promoter of Ramesvara swami and the GBC's 11 gurus just after Srila Prabhupada departed. After 1978 Subhananda wrote a big book on how we ALL have to respect and worship the "11 appointed gurus" as parampara acharyas, and he wrote other articles which created the misconception that the 11 are "parampara gurus," and its wrong for us to question these "absolute gurus."

Simultaneously, Subhananda's group were saying our idea to continue to worship the acharya Srila Prabhupada is "the posthumous samadhi worship deviation." This idea has made the GBC and people like Rocana famous for their saying that Vaishnava gurus are -- posthumous, post samadhi and post mortem. Yep, Krishna and His acharyas are all post mortem, who knew! These folks all said in unison "we need to hear from the 'living lips' -- of our (homosexual and debauchee) gurus." And Subhananda has been a big promoter of this process.

Thus, we "dissenters" were being roundly criticized (and banished) by this group as "trying to have Srila Prabhupada worshiped as another Jesus" -- all because we did not want to worship conditioned souls like Ramesvara swami as God's "living guru successors." Unfortunately, Subhananda / Steve forgets to mention this crucial historical factor in the interview above, that he was one of the Joeseph Goebbels writers for the "living (debauchee) guru" regime.

Its very ironic indeed that Subhananda / Steve is now on the "Freedom of Mind" program, when he was one of the vociferous writers / enforcers of that vicious guru regime. That regime forcibly, and sometimes actually violently, took away our freedom to worship the acharya, and in fact made it almost impossible for anyone who still worshiped Srila Prabhupada to stay in the organization. 

In other words Subhananda co-created a dangerous situation for anyone who wanted to continue to worship Srila Prabhupada and not worship his illicit sex messiahs program. And his agenda also made it very dangerous to continue to promote the ACTUAL acharya even after we left the organization, because the goondas from Subhananda's program could hunt us down, and perhaps beat us up or even kill -- us "dissenters." 

So now, after he has been a prime hatchet man / co-writer for the violent criminal messiahs project, a sort of Joseph Goebbel's writer for the regime, he has suddenly decided "lets have freedom of mind." Really? Well what about our freedom which your agenda took away from us, and viciously and even violently took away from us? Subhananda's regime has been referred to as "the enforced cult ritualistic worship of deviants program" -- and he was one of the enforcers.
   
Even now a lot of these folks complain that we are STILL not promoting their worship of the GBC's "living gurus" and yes, we are still promoting the worship of the acharya Srila Prabhupada instead. In other words, in 1978 these people thought that Srila Prabhupada's worship has to be replaced / displaced / over-stepped / duplicated / by the worship of the newly anointed "11 successors to Krishna." 

And Subhananda seems to be totally oblivious as to why his policy of promoting conditioned soul messiahs created all sorts of chaos in ISKCON including banning, beating, sexual predator gurus, and even -- murders. And as a result of this watered down guru program, the standard of being "God's successor" was sort of dropped to near the bottom of the barrel, and so now almost anyone could become "God's living spokesman on earth." What could go wrong with this idea?  

Yep, why worship the acharya when we can worship a conditioned soul instead? And they even started a program that we have to offer our bhogha to their conditioned souls gurus. Jadurani in 1979 said this would mean, everyone is now eating bhogha because these bogus offerings are not accepted by Krishna. The leaders still have this program in force even now, their people are still offering bhogha to the GBC's "gurus." Of course Srila Prabhupada had said -- do not change the deity worship or there will be a disaster -- and yet -- that was the first thing they did!

Then again, at the same time (1978) Sridhara Maharaja said the same basic thing, the GBC's gurus need to be worshiped as absolute acharyas and "none should protest." Sridhara Maharaja said Ramesvara types should just "wear the guru uniform -- and the uniform will show him what to do" i.e. dress like Jesus, then you are Jesus. So, there was a block of these people promoting these false 11 messiahs, and Subhananda was one of their prominent promoters, and in fact he was a big writer and scholar among them. 

Meanwhile Satsvarupa, Jaggadisha and Jayadvaita swami began co-writing "GBC position papers" to help coordinate their worship of conditioned souls deviation. Yet nowadays Subhananda and his ilk are apparently complaining that the formula of surrender to the "absolute guru" is wrong, forgetting that he was one of the prominent persons orchestrating surrender to his false "absolute" gurus? 

Is the process of surrender to Krishna and His bona fide gurus wrong, or is their idea of surrender to false gurus wrong? Subhananda fails to tell us -- or to distinguish one process from the other? How does he propose we surrender to Krishna if we do not worship His guru representative? 

Subhananda simply jumps over a huge chunk of the actual history here; the 11 falsely claimed to be God's appointed successors, and then folks like Subhananda supported that deviation, forgetting -- these 11 gurus were never appointed as gurus? Subhananda is not being clear here, and he seems to think the overall process of the Krishna religion is wrong, without admitting he changed the entire process by coercing and forcing the citizens of ISKCON to worship his conditioned soul pals as the acharyas of ISKCON. He was a huge promoter and apologist for the regime.

And his changed process is forbidden by Krishna and the bona fide acharyas. 

And lest we forget, their idea that we have to worship the 11 as acharyas -- empowered, enabled, energized, allowed, supported, promoted and generally cemented in people like Kirtanananda as "the new Jesus' of ISKCON." And in fact that is what their "Back To Godhead" magazine said, that Kirtanananda is like Jesus. In short, Subhananda's folks mistook Kirtanananda for "God's successor" -- and their mistake -- makes the religion at fault? 

Jaggadish said the same thing, Srila Prabhupada appointed these gurus. And that essentially blames Srila Prabhupada for all the troubles. Problem is, he never appointed any gurus.    

OK and what happens when a person questions the new "Jesus" enabled and empowered by people like Subhananda? Well, they might end up being banned, beaten up, or dead. This deviation did not happen in a vacuum, it happened under the supportive umbrella of people like Subhananda encouraging the worship of these false messiahs. Mukunda swami was saying the same thing, these appointed gurus have to be worshiped as "parampara" gurus. So there was a gang of these guys, and they insisted on having conditioned souls worshiped as God's successors.  

And this deviation is what lead to a dangerous cult situation, where Ramesvara's people were banning and sometimes beating people up. Of course some of Ramesvara's former "enforcers" told me he was involved in the murder of Sulochana. Subhananda seems to think all this manifested out of thin air, but it didn't, it manifested because people like him were promoting the false acharya's regime and program. And it was under the jack boots of the false acharyas regime where innocent people were being shunned, banned, abused, beaten and maybe worse.

Thus, he is certainly not explaining his role in promoting this false gurus regime. We have a big problem with this -- within the entire GBC's camp: (A) These folks VEHEMENTLY supported the false gurus, (B) All hell breaks loose, and then (C) It is "ISKCON" or "Krishna consciousness" that is at fault, and not them? Satsvarupa Das Goswami is expert at this somewhat psychopathic process, he promoted all of this and yet now he is always "the poor victim." Ohh boo hoo, we tried so hard (to make deviants into God's successors). Well yes, and that makes you directly and karmically responsible for all the ensuing mayhem your program generated.

Sorry! No, Srila Prabhupada NEVER said we should surrender to false gurus, they over-stepped his orders. In short, they created a Frankenstein monster, then they said, it is not their fault. All this happened by chance occurrence! Really? But weren't you the GBC's co-pilot when the plane crashed? 

Sridhara Maharaja also created the same Frankenstein monster false guru regime in 1936, people who dissented his illicit sex guru program were being beaten and killed. Yet he is the poor guy who "tried his best to push on the movement." Nope, he tried his best to cheat people by getting them worship a bogus guru.

And so now, boo hoo, in Krishna consciousness we have to surrender to a guru which is wrong because its not humanistic. Oh forsooth! Krishna consciousness does not take the humanitarian aspect into consideration. Nope, Subhananda's supporting and promoting false acharyas did not take the human aspect into consideration. He failed to take into consideration how his support of these false gurus would severely impact the society and its citizens under his bogus guru regime.

To sum, he is one of the original big cheer leaders of the idea that we have to surrender to these GBC's gurus. Why not admit, he made a huge mistake promoting these fools as messiahs, instead of blaming the entire religion? A bad carpenter blames his tools?

Yep, Ramesvara and the 11 were the "unquestioned" guru authorities. So Subhananda is one of the very people who co-created the very cult like atmosphere he complains of, by his backing this bogus guru appointment. To sum, Subhananda is one of the original authors of the idea that the 11 are "absolute and unquestioned beings." 

He has never really explained what else was ordered if these 11 were not gurus, or that these 11 gurus were never appointed, and so on. He says the Krishna culture does not normally have these false guru problems. Well sorry, it does have this false guru problem all over the place, for example with the sahajiyas in Bengal, false Gaudiya Matha gurus, and now ISKCON's "appointed acharyas." 

And the Krishna culture has ALSO had the problem of unqualified folks posing as "big scholars" (OK like Subhananda) who were promoting these false gurus, as did Sridhara Maharaja, Professor Sannyal, Madhava maharaja and similar others who supported their false acharyas imbroglio after 1936. 

I hope Subhananda will someday read the actual shastra where it is clearly stated, false gurus and their supporters (and scholarly backers) are "destined for the most obnoxious regions of the universe." Its a big jagat out there, and the place for false gurus and their supporters / writers will not be fun, guaranteed! Especially if they are unrepentant -- as most of them are ...

As for Nori Muster (Nandini) she was sort of going along with all this because these big scholars like Subhananda were all promoting it. She and many others thought the 11 gurus program was authorized, because so many others were part of that process and agenda. 

She was Mukunda's secretary for the "ISKCON World Review" and she realized eventually that Mukunda was covering up all sorts of crimes and corruption. He told Nandini that "I have a career to look after." Right, he made it his career to help introduce all sorts of criminal corruption into ISKCON and to cover up for it, and protect that agenda. And the result was that thousands of devotees were victimized. Sulochana said Mukunda's job was "to put a happy face on a piece of dog's stools."

Anyway, later on she has done a great job exposing a lot of the corruption and, what can I say, she has been doing the work of a Kshatriya man by doing battle with these criminal messiahs. She thus has more guts than a lot of the "men." I think she pretty much agrees, these GBC gurus were never appointed as gurus and they basically usurped that post. ys pd]