[PADA: Cyril Wohrer and PADA got off to a bad start. He started right away insulting and attacking PADA's editor. OK we are saying pedophiles are not God's acharyas, why should we be attacked ... by anyone? Anyway, it looks like even he has to say, hey, these GBC's apologists are pieces of sh*t. OK that means he is finally agreeing with -- PADA?
Hmmm, it looks like the ever increasing stock pile of incriminating information is making it harder and harder for people to defend the GBC's regime, and in fact the opposite is happening, more people are attacking the regime.
Yes, Vedasara's testimony is a damning testimony of the ISKCON leader's regime, and that certainly includes Bhakti Vikas swami -- who has tried to defend the regime on various issues. It is not looking good for them as a group, or even as individuals. Hey Cyril, bravo dude! You are starting to look more and more like a PADA-ophile!
ys pd angel108b@yahoo.com
=========================
RUSSIA UPDATE
All Russian National Council of GBC ISKCON supported the Russian army and the call for the mobilization of the population.
The Russian National Council of GBC ISKCON took a long pause after the start of Russian hostilities in Ukraine, but a year later took a clear position on this issue, officially declaring that it was not against the actions of the Russian government.
Here are some statements by Russian leaders:
Chaitanya Chandra Charan, guru GBC ISKCON, disciple of Jayapataka Swami:
"There is no need to panic, be afraid. You need to have a normal attitude towards military operations, military duty, the laws of the state. It's not just like that, it's fair. This is my fate, my duty. I ask whether I should go or not, I just have to do it, because the law is like this, the time is like this, the circumstances are like this. There are no questions. You are not asked, you do not choose, you obey the will of fate. I accept it as the will of Krishna."
Bhakti Rasayana Sagar Swami, disciple of Indradyumna Swami: "To go or not to go? That is the question. We have a definite duty to our country, we must act for its good. Civil duty is serving in the interests of the country, it gives us, provides us with something and we need to be grateful. Repay".
Valmiki Das: "There have always been wars and always will be. Don't blame anyone, don't blame the rulers. Those who say that Putin is to blame are delusional. What to do? Do nothing, go defend your homeland, you soul, go pray for God. If you are called - go, if you do not go, you will be punished. Russia has a huge responsibility. It will start a spiritual rebirth. This is described in the prophecies. Russia has to fight. It's necessary".
Most of the Russian devotees support their leadership, they worry about the Russian army, they help it, they collect money to help the military. Most Ukrainian devotees are shocked by such statements as they thought of their seniors.
Bhakti Rasayana Sagar Swami, disciple of Indradyumna Swami: "To go or not to go? That is the question. We have a definite duty to our country, we must act for its good. Civil duty is serving in the interests of the country, it gives us, provides us with something and we need to be grateful. Repay".
Valmiki Das: "There have always been wars and always will be. Don't blame anyone, don't blame the rulers. Those who say that Putin is to blame are delusional. What to do? Do nothing, go defend your homeland, you soul, go pray for God. If you are called - go, if you do not go, you will be punished. Russia has a huge responsibility. It will start a spiritual rebirth. This is described in the prophecies. Russia has to fight. It's necessary".
Most of the Russian devotees support their leadership, they worry about the Russian army, they help it, they collect money to help the military. Most Ukrainian devotees are shocked by such statements as they thought of their seniors.
[PADA: Yes, it is a really difficult time for the GBC to have to "take a side" on this conflict, when they have followers on both sides. It also looks like India is trying to increase its trade and cooperation with Russia, which is not so good for the people who oppose Russia.
The Russian ISKCON leaders are of course not really able to oppose the war openly, or they could be arrested for dis-loyalty. We have friends in Russia who are saying it is not a good idea to make public comments on this issue, because there is a lot of government monitoring and surveillance.
My friend hosted a young Russian man at his house here for a week, and the man told me -- he has to escape being in Russia -- because he does not want to die over there. He was lamenting that he had to leave all of his friends and relatives behind, so this is causing troubles even for a lot of the Russian folks themselves. I felt really bad for the poor guy, but once Kali Yuga bites down on a person, they are in major trouble. Defeating Kali Yuga is simply not possible, unless one is very surrendered to Krishna.
Overall, it is making it difficult to coordinate preaching in the region, and it is going to stunt the GBC's program there, which has been their star "Western people" preaching Zone. Meanwhile Russia is continuining their "mass bomb the civilians and their infrastructure" program, which is not making them very popular in many sectors of the world.
Most civilized nations are not in favor of bombing the unarmed civilians and their needed facilities, but this does happen -- again thanks to Kali Yuga. A devotee complained to me that I am "taking sides," OK well my position is is the Vedic one, attacking the civilians is not authorized. Then again Srila Prabhupada says all of the soldiers in modern wars go to hell, because none of these wars are fought on religious principles. In other words, the mundane leaders of Kali Yuga are sinful beings, as such -- not authorized to order the citizens into wars. ys pd]
===================
Catastrophic Failure
DD: Though the GBC is being conspicuously silent at the moment following Vedasara's testimony and the Inquiry Report into the Vrindavan and Mayapur Gurukulas, other concerned parties are keeping the conversation going.
Anyone and everyone that reads Vedasara’s testimony is in shock and mourning – mourning for the abject destruction of so many innocent Vaisnavas’ lives, mourning that Prabhupada’s movement could possibly come to this….. How’s it possible that we could have collectively failed the children thus? That this went on right under everyone’s noses there in Mayapur – Lord Caitanya’s holy birthplace, the headquarters of the movement?
How could so many reports have gone unheeded – without further investigation? A total and utter catastrophic failure of governance. And, although some individual messages of support for victims and repudiation of abuse have come out, still no official response from the body. Even the most soulless corporations on the planet would have had a statement out within hours. And in corporations and governments, senior people would be stepping down.
Of course, everyone’s wondering if the GBC in fact cares. Or whether they have the wherewithal to lead the movement out of this crisis – the moral authority, the credibility, the skills, the character, the blessings of the Vaisnava community….
Has there ever been a more catastrophic breach of trust? Even in secular society, these crimes would achieve notoriety. How soon before global media picks the story up? And how will the world look upon the Society’s leadership?
Concerted action is needed – urgently. Get yourselves trained. Insist on background checks and all other safeguards at all schools – and temples. Insist that every temple community has an active and competent CPT accountable to the global CPO – no independence for zones that want to just institute their own standards in defiance of ICPO.
Let’s see some legal action taken with regards to abusers – no more shielding, failure to exercise mandatory reporting, no more interfering and favouring of cronies. Back the CPO financially – and support their decisions, act on their recommendations. Or get out of the way. Whatever service you might suppose you’re doing is being outweighed by the ill effects arising from your neglect and incompetence. Please don’t assume that there aren’t fit successors.
It’s that simple.
The restoring of trust will take generations – and then only if there’s earnest reform that’s fully seen through. Further failure to take action and not only will this problematic culture – in which abuse has gone on unchecked – be prolonged…. but more horrific crimes like those we’ve barely begun to process will be committed.
And if you’re not moved to act….. God help your souls.
_______
Xxxxxxxxxx’s points about accountability and fail safes are very important. We know that Srila Prabhupada preferred GBCs for life – rather than whimsical replacing or resignations. At the same time he approved removal of those who were deviating – sensual falldowns, philosophical deviancy, etc. Please note the famous May 28th, 1977 Conversation.
“Prabhupāda: So there is no question of changing GBC.
Satsvarūpa: No.
Prabhupāda: Rather, one who is competent, he can be selected to act by the board of the GBC.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of course, if someone has a falldown, just like in the past some GBC men have fallen down . . .
Prabhupāda: He should be replaced.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then he should be replaced. But that's a serious falldown, not some minor discrepancy.
Prabhupāda: They must be all ideal ācārya-like. In the beginning we have done for working. Now we should be very cautious. Anyone who is deviating, he can be replaced.”
So what of repeated catastrophic failures of governance – resulting in rampant child abuse at multiple locations but especially severe at the Society’s schools in holy places like Vrindavan and Mayapur? What about the ignoring of multiple reports detailing the abuse? So much damage to so many second generationers’ lives. So much deep concern amongst the community who are confused by the leaders’ seeming inaction – and denial, confusion, unfathomable decisions that contravene common decency – like continuing to shield Lokanath from real world consequences to his crime against a minor.
People are walking away from the movement – people that previously had faith, disgusted by the leadership’s mishandling of such matters all these years. People are openly challenging their gurus in ways we have never seen before. There is a massive crisis of faith and confidence in ISKCON’s leadership – unparalleled in the organisation’s history (and we’ve certainly been through storms and scandals before).
Where’s the accountability for all this? How would Prabhupada judge the handling of these matters by the GBC? There are times when Prabhupada stood down the entire body over relative trifles compared to this.
Does the GBC really think that it can ride out the storm – that it will all blow over without consequence? Is there no recognition that there needs to be some mechanism to address catastrophic failures of such a proportion – that there’s a certain point where the “moral mandate to lead”, the credibility, the perceived competence levels and questions about motive are at such record lows that the GBC has essentially forfeit its legitimacy – and needs to be refreshed, reconstituted, reformed.
History will not look favourably on this chapter of history – and it’s a long chapter because the scourge of abuse has plagued the movement without adequate intervention for decades. There is no indictment on a leadership team more severe than a failure to protect the Society’s innocents. No amount of flowery festivals and impressive building projects will ever offset this level of neglect, inaction and even active collusion.
The essence of good leadership – whether in the secular world or spiritual context – is character. It’s time to show some.
LD: Big problem. People like Cyril trying to remain faithful to the old guard, while bringing in some new fresh ideas about controlling and confronting the molester system ... bringing in some new blood ... maybe like himself He does not seem to grasp ... the old guard has never welcomed the new guard.
ReplyDeleteHe cannot change it from within. He has to get off their sites and go onto independent sites and make a stand -- outside their reign of power. He has to cut his old guard connections totally ... and make his own site or join another independent system.
Apparently still thinking PADA is not a good idea, because PADA has left the old guard and is independent. He has to do the same thing, and so does everyone else, un-hook his train car from the bad train that is going down to Hades, hopefully he will get that eventually.
There are quite a few devotees like him. They don't like the GBC, they don't like the independent people like us .. or PADA, so they cannot get anything done, they are in perpetual limbo. It is like putting your car into forward and reverse at the same time, you can go nowhere, and you just burn up your car's mechanicals in the process.
PND: Haribol prabhu!
ReplyDeletePAMHO AGTSP
Don't pay attention to this Cyril Wohler fellow. He sent me too many e-mails, always insulting me very agressively and in a very vulgar and low class way -- because he has absolutely no good argument to propose against what we rightly say. He is a fool no1, but he just tries to become famous through his videos or whatever.
It is his only way to get some fame. He is always in complete contradiction with himself: He always eats off the plate of the criminals ... but then tries also to appear publicly as a big hero defending the gurukulis or others.
You can publish that if you want. PNd
==================
[PADA: Yep, there are a lot of people like that. For example Bhakti Vikas swami, famous for protesting the GBC, equally famous for defending them. They are either confused, or they know what they are doing, and they want to create controversy. Either way they are not entirely helpful.
That was my initial thought, he is very grossly insulting and attacking me personally -- while saying he has no idea who I am. Is that the way you greet people you have no idea who they are, boots in face right off the bat? Unfortunately, typical of a lot of bogus Krishna devotees, quick to attack us, while sitting at the table with the bad guys. Meanwhile making pretend they are not with the bad guys.
I think it is fair to say this is called hypocrisy and double dealing. There is a lot of that going on, which impedes actual progress. Anyway thank you for the warning, yep, talking like an arrogant, vulgar, low class drunken sailor, and he is going to come in and fix the whole mess. Ummm nope.
The only good news is, he knows the program of the GBC is under attack, so he is paying at least some attention to us.
ys pd
Mama Bear: Oh yeah Cyril Worher types. We got plenty of them around here.
ReplyDeleteQ: Prabhu, there is a molesting problem, what will we do?
A: Oh shut up, you are an offender! Get your offending self out of the temple in 14 seconds! Make that 7 seconds!
Then later, when the crapolo finally hits the fan.
Q: There is a child molesting problem, now what?
A: Yeah but no one ever told us, we did not know.
Oh Lord have mercy on their twisted souls! I cannot count how many times this type activity has happened around here. And it is the same thing with countless other problems. I guess ignorance is bliss, until they land on Yamaraja's doorstep, and he tells them, ignoring common sense is why you are here.
M Dasi: Cyril Wohrer. Talks sh*t to everyone, those who are fallen from the GBC's good graces, and those who are still in the GBC's good graces. Basically, he is a patriot without a country.
ReplyDeleteThat is unfortunate. The thing we need to remember is -- the GBC attracts low lifes people. Those people talk smack to me in an instant. Nasty f**kers most of them.
Some of them are sincere, but they dare not speak up, because they are afraid of the nasty f**kers hanging around. They have to keep a lot of pressure one people to make them conform. Cyril is one one of the smack talkers, but even he sees, they have gone a bridge too far, so now even he has to criticize the sycophants. That means he is just going to end up angry with everyone.
I forgot, just like he is angry with everyone now.