Thursday, March 7, 2019

Female Diksha Gurus will Destroy ISKCON in India

Yep, look at these men's faces, hee hee.

[PADA: One of our spies overheard some of the GBC's folks apparently arguing that making female diksha gurus will "break the back of ISKCON in India, because none of the bona fide sampradayas will accept." Probably true. 

Of course making illicit sex with men, women and children gurus is acceptable? Hee hee! Notice that Dhanurdar swami is still listed among the GBC's consultants and managers, after they said he would be banned for his role in child abuse. These guys never seem to do what they say they will. 

Anyway, yes, their female diksha gurus won't be accepted widely, true dat. They already have empty temples from their bogus male gurus, how will bogus women gurus help? And if their men gurus are falling down, getting sick and dying from taking sins, why would souls in women's bodies fare any better? 

Its rare for women to be parampara acharyas in any event. There could be exceptions, according to Krishna's desire. Thus if a pure devotee female took the post of diksha guru, which she would only do by Krishna's order, that is another thing. That is not the case here.  

ys pd]  

Subject:   Re: The FDG issue needs to be settled by experts
---------- Forwarded Message ----------

Text PAMHO:31287801 (92 lines)
From:      Internet: "Damodara Dasa" <>
Date:      04-Mar-19 07:14 +0530
Reference: Text PAMHO:31287544 by Praghosa (das) SDG (IRL)
To:        Praghosa (das) SDG (IRL) [353642]
            (received: 04-Mar-19 08:01 +0000)
Cc:        Atmanivedana Swami [13408]  (received: 04-Mar-19 18:44 +0530),
           "B.V. Madhav Swami" <>,
           "Badrinarayan Swami" <>,
           Badrinarayan Swami (San Diego - US) [140675]
            (forwarded: 04-Mar-19 03:00 +0100),
           "Bhakti Bhringa Govinda Swami" <>,
           Bhakti Brhat Bhagavata Swami [57845]
            (received: 04-Mar-19 10:48 +0530),
           Bhakti Caitanya Swami [201728]  (received: 04-Mar-19 02:49 +0100),
           "Bhakti Charu Swami" <>,
           Bhakti Gaurava Narayana Swami (Vrindavan - IN) [7852]
            (received: 04-Mar-19 12:27 +0530),
           Bhakti Gauravani Goswami [28420]  (received: 04-Mar-19 04:46 +0100),
           Bhakti Nityananda Swami [6148]  (forwarded: 04-Mar-19 03:00 +0100),
           "Bhakti Prabhupada-vrata Damodara Swami" <>,
           Bhakti Purusottama Swami (Mayapur - IN) [148937],
           Bhakti Raghava Swami [90628]  (received: 04-Mar-19 16:33 +0530),
           Bhakti Rasamrita Swami [45806]  (received: 04-Mar-19 07:31 +0530),
           Bhakti Sundar Goswami [19908],
           Bhakti Vinoda Swami (Coimbatore - IN) [116856]
            (received: 04-Mar-19 17:03 +0100),
           Bhakti-bhusana Swami [106572],
           Bhaktimarga Swami (Canada) [33409]
            (forwarded: 04-Mar-19 03:00 +0100),
           Bhaktivaibhava Swami [70490]  (received: 04-Mar-19 08:52 +0530),
           Bhanu Swami (Madras - IN) [271636]
            (received: 04-Mar-19 10:04 +0530),
           Bir Krishna das Goswami [73404]  (forwarded: 04-Mar-19 03:00 +0100),
           BPG Goswami JPS (TP Taraganj - BD) [1501],
           Danavir Goswami (USA) [87675]  (received: 04-Mar-19 03:23 +0100),
           Dayananda Swami [20102]  (forwarded: 04-Mar-19 08:15 +0500),
           Giridhari Swami [105425]  (forwarded: 04-Mar-19 03:00 +0100),
           Giriraja Swami [289927]  (received: 04-Mar-19 03:01 +0100),
           Gopal Krsna Goswami [127231]  (received: 04-Mar-19 12:33 +0530),
           Gouranga Prem Swami (Namahatta, Mayapur - IN) [2810],
           Guru Prasad Swami [162077],
           "Hanumat Preshaka Swami" <>,
           "Hridayananda das Goswami" <>,
           Indradyumna Swami [247719]  (received: 04-Mar-19 03:23 +0100),
           Janananda Goswami [14790]  (received: 04-Mar-19 16:45 +1200),
           (Bhakti Anugraha) Janardana Swami [44146],
           Jayadvaita Swami [164383]  (received: 04-Mar-19 03:04 +0100),
           "Jayapataka Swami" <>,
           Kadamba Kanana Swami [64057]  (forwarded: 04-Mar-19 03:00 +0100),
           Kesava Bharati Dasa Goswami (NE BBT, Govardhan) [77178],
           Lokanath Swami [96986]  (forwarded: 04-Mar-19 03:00 +0100),
           Mahavishnu Swami (ACBSP) (UK/Africa/India/Nepal) [51820],
           Makhanlal Das Goswami [678]  (received: 04-Mar-19 03:22 +0100),
           "Niranjan Swami" <>,
           Partha Sarathi Das Goswami (S. Africa) [5145]
            (forwarded: 04-Mar-19 03:00 +0100),
           Prahladananda Swami [203799]  (received: 04-Mar-19 02:45 +0100),
           "Radhanath Swami" <>,
           Rama Govinda Swami (Gaborone - BW) [11029],
           "Ramai Swami" <>,
           Romapada Swami [430575]  (received: 03-Mar-19 21:27 -0500),
           Sacinandana Swami [53445]  (received: 04-Mar-19 10:50 +0100),
           Satsvarupa Dasa Goswami (ACBSP) [741]
            (forwarded: 04-Mar-19 03:00 +0100),
           "Sivarama Swami" <>,
           Smita Krsna Swami (Sweden) [10026],
           "Sukadeva Swami" <>,
           Trivikrama Swami [78910]  (received: 03-Mar-19 20:48 -0500),
           Vedavyasapriya Swami (ACBSP) (Vrindavan - IN) [29194]
            (received: 04-Mar-19 08:45 +0530),
           Yadunandana Swami (Bhaktivedanta College - BE) [100239]
            (forwarded: 04-Mar-19 03:00 +0100),
           Anuttama (das) ACBSP (IC N.America) [199788]
            (forwarded: 04-Mar-19 03:00 +0100),
           Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN) [200096]
            (received: 04-Mar-19 11:06 +0530),
           Madhu Sevita (das) ACBSP (GBC) (I) [58360]
            (received: 04-Mar-19 04:26 +0100),
           Mahaman (das) ACBSP [35591]  (received: 04-Mar-19 03:53 +0100),
           Malati (dd) ACBSP (GBC) (New Vrindavan/Columbus - USA) [90510]
            (forwarded: 04-Mar-19 03:00 +0100),
           Tamohara (das) ACBSP (Alachua, FL - US) [32386]
            (forwarded: 04-Mar-19 03:00 +0100),
           Virabahu (das) ACBSP (GBC) [42501]
            (forwarded: 04-Mar-19 03:00 +0100),
           "Basu Ghosh Das" <>,
           "Chaitanyachandra Das (GBC - Russia)" <>,
           "Dhanurdhara Maharaj" <>,
           "HH Navayogendra Maharaj" <>,
           Hrdaya Caitanya (das) SDG [205172]
            (forwarded: 04-Mar-19 03:00 +0100),
           "Jay Nityananda Das" <>,
           "Jivananda dasa Vanacari" <>,
           "Kratu Das" <>,
           "Krishna Kirti Das" <>,
           Prabodhanand Saraswati (Swami) GKG (Vrindavan - IN) [822],
           "Sankarshan Das Adhikari" <>,
           Secretary BVG [126368]  (received: 04-Mar-19 09:49 +0530),
           "Sesa Das" <>,
           "Sriman Chandrashekhar Prabhu - GBC" <>,
           "Urmila devi dasi/Dr. Edith Best" <>
Bcc:       ICC (Indian Continental Committee) [9035]
            (sender: Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN))
Subject:   Re: The FDG issue needs to be settled by experts
Respected Praghosa Prabhu and Maharajas and Prabhus,

Please accept my humble obeisances,
Sri Sri Guru Gaurangau Jayatah.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada and his faithful followers.

By your permission, a small fallen person like me would want to
address some of the points from Praghosa Prabhu.

POINT #1:  Issue of Suniti is not applicable today because it is from satyuga
*  Almost all the incidences mentioned in Bhagavatam are not from Kali yuga where the yuga dharma was different and where in general women were not allowed to perform austerities etc..

*  The logic that Praghosa Prabhu puts, advances us to believe that most of the instructions and ideals of Srimad Bhagavatam are not meant for Kali yuga

* But this is completely wrong because SB is meant specifically for Kaliyuga (kalau nasta drsam esa puranarko 'dhunoditah)

* Moreover, in the verse itself, SB 4.12.32, there is no clue of any gurus mentioned. However, SP specifically brings this point up in the purport. Why would he do that, if he doesn't want us to follow the example.

POINT #2: Because Suniti (and women in general) could not receive initiation, thus could not give initiation
*  This presupposes the idea that if women could have received initiation they could have given also. Thus, in present scenario where women can receive initiation, they can give also. 

* However, this presupposition is not true. We see that in Krishna's Vedic culture, even dvija men other than brahmanas received initiation (and in all mantras that brahmanas receive). But, it was only brahmanas who could give initiation. 

* Thus, even if Suniti could have been initiated, she could not have been able to give initiation as she was a woman. Same holds true for today.

* In kaliyuga, in ISKCON we follow pancharatrika process for initiation as mentioned by SP himself.

     ### Quote ###

     "Therefore this diksa is offered according to Pancaratrika-vidhi.
      That is recommended in this age." (BG 7.3, Bombay, Mar 29, 1971)


* Pancharatras allow women to take diksha (Bharadvaja samhita 1.13-15)
while prohibits them from becoming diksa-gurus (BS 1.42-43).

* Thus, our explanation is based on sastras, not presuppositions;
while the above proposal was based on a presuppositon that clashes
with sastras and tradition.

Point #3: Kali yuga dharma doesn't need one to go to forest etc.and thus just follow husband etc.

* Going back to Godhead and being a diksa-guru are completely different things

* One doesn't need to be guru for going back to Godhead or be a pure devotee.

* One only needs to perform devotional service prominent of which is hearing and chanting.

* Thus, how women's not being guru prohibits them from going back to God head?

* Everyone has right to go back to Godhead.

* No one has right to become guru; guruship is not a matter of right.

* As soon as one aspires to become guru, one is immediately unqualified for the service of diksa-guru. This applies equally to all.

* Thus, When sastras and Prabhupada prohibit women from becoming guru,
they are not depriving them their right to serve and go back to God head.


Your servant,
damodara das
(Text PAMHO:31287801) --------------------------------------

Gaura Govinda Maharaja's people said he was taking their sins as a diksha guru, ok because he is as good as Jesus. Nope, GGM is not another Jesus, this is way beyond normal egotism of the mundane people. The mundane people know they are not able to absorb sins like Jesus, because they have the basic quality of humility and respect for actual saints. Now we are going to have women taking sins like Jesus? That is going to fix this mess? Hee hee! As Hrdayananda said in 1986, the Mad Acharya's Disease is now becoming an epidemic. ys pd

1 comment:

  1. PADA: Yes KD prabhu, they are thinking guru is and ordinary man. Or maybe ordinary woman. And thus their guru is subordinated to the votes of a defective committee. Correct. ys pd


    Srila Bhaktisiddhanta saraswati Thakura Prabhupada answers-

    Question: What is the most severe nama-aparadha, or offence to the holy name?
    Answer: To consider Srila Gurudeva to be an ordinary human being is the most deadly offence, the most severe nama-aparadha. By maintaining a conception of him as a mere mortal, one cannot attain auspiciousness even in billions of births. A person with such a mundane conception of the guru will encounter various types of obstacles in bhakti and will be in danger of drowning in the ocean of material desires. Besides the lotus feet of Sri Guru, nothing can save us from the clutches of harmful association. The jiva is unable to surrender himself at the lotus feet of Sri Gurudeva only because he considers Sri Gurudeva to be an ordinary human being.


Note: Only a member of this blog may post a comment.