Conversation about Jeeva Tattva with India Devotee

https://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2019/03/fallen-living-entities-from-spiritual.html

[PADA: Devotee from India has been told (even by "senior devotees"?) to accept that us (the jeevas) were never originally with Krishna. Hence, there is no such process as "Back to Godhead," because we were never with Godhead. Here is our discussion ...] PADA @ angel108b@yahoo.com

====================

====================

DD: Dear PADA: Hare Krishna. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada! Is there any authorised english version of Sat Sandarbha by our Acharyas? As far as I know, there are none.

PADA: I am not aware of any. Srila Prabhupada was asked, what about all the previous books written by the previous acharyas? He said, whatever you need to know its ALL in my books. He also said that the Gaudiya Matha's books were edited after 1936 and they are no longer bona fide ...

DD: Yes. He said that. I read your article, false Jaiva Dharma. There are false versions of Jaiva Dharma, so false versions of Sat Sandarbha might also be there.

PADA: He made one exception, the Brahma samhita. Yes, the point is, without an acharya to give the purports, there are also hundreds of editions of the Gita, but none of them are correct. Simply sanskrit grammar is not sufficient.

DD: Yes. Many misunderstand Bhagavad Gita too. If some souls are starting off in the spiritual world and others are starting off in the material world, then it kind of makes the whole Vaishnav Philosophy upside down.

PADA: Yes. People like Kundali made an edition saying we were never with Krishna, but he is with the Gaudiya Matha people ... Yes, Gaudiya Vaishnavas say that we are all originally with Krishna and we become envious of Krishna. How can we become envious if we have no idea who He is? Like Srila Prabhupada said, yes they are tinged with Mayavada.

DD: Yes true

PADA: Yes, some of them say we started out as Nitya Baddha, we started out in hell already? Hee hee, they think God is Satan.

DD: Yes. That makes God biased. Which he's not.

PADA: Why would a loving God place some of his children in heaven and some in hell, from their original state? Yes, they are preaching the same basic idea as the Catholic church, some special souls start with God and stay there, the less special, the condemned children, they come here. So this is preaching a mundane and biased idea of God. God does not create "special blessed" children and simultaneously create "Satanic condemned" children, even a mundane man treats his children equal ..

DD: Yes, their statements have many loopholes. Just hearing it sounds like fake philosophy.

PADA: Yes, its mundane idea that God has bigot and biased mentality, they are biased and they think God is like them ...

DD: It's fake*

PADA: Yes, of course that also means they have no idea that "back to San Francisco" means, we were there before. They do not know even kindergarten level grammar, "Back to Godhead" means -- we were there with Him previously.

DD: Back to Godhead is the entire basis of the Vaishnava process. Yes. And Lord Krishna is equal to all. He says it in Bg. Yes. BTG is the essence of Vaishnav Philosophy.

PADA: So when the Mayapur Gaudiya Matha God brothers objected to "Back to Godhead," we knew they were bogus right away. When Srila Prabhupada said these God brothers are "tinged with mayavada" we all laughed because, their idea makes no sense. Of course it makes sense, if we are followers of the Vatican and the Catholics, but we are not in that process.

I grew up with a Catholic mother and she believed that God has separated His children from the outset: (A) There are some special select children who start in heaven with God. And then there are (B) us, the lesser children, the condemned souls. So I know what that idea is. That is one reason I loved Srila Prabhupada's idea, back to Godhead, makes God into a equal father ... all souls start out equally. This also makes sense, why would God be biased with His children?

DD: And Srila Prabhupada always spoke the truth. If we don't follow him, we are doomed.

PADA: that is one of the hidden messages in my painting, we started with Him.

DD: Very nice painting

PADA: Thanks!

DD: Thank you for the Jaiva Dharma Article. It helped me a lot.

PADA: Yes, we follow the acharya or we fall into speculation.

DD: Yes.

PADA: I also posted a video where Srila Prabhupada talks about falling from the spiritual world.

DD: Yes, I also saw that on your blog. He also said only a few percentage fall down from the spiritual world. That is the right understanding.

PADA: We have to have a choice to serve or not service, or else we are robots.

DD: Yes. No individualism then.

PADA: There is no love from a robot

DD: Yes

PADA: So they think no one can fall because we are mechanical beings with no ability to choose. Anyway so many flaws and loopholes ...

DD: Yes.

PADA: Simply stated they do not believe in the Back to Godhead principle, they think they know better than the acharya.
DD: Yes. That's why we shouldn't read outside translations. We can easily be doomed.

PADA: Right, any idea that opposes the acharya is deviation.

DD: Yes!

PADA: Krishna is equal, and that means there are no special selected higher children -- and a sub-set of condemned lower children, that is also common sense, God has no reason to be biased with His children when even ordinary man is not biased with children

They are saying God has mundane qualities worse than ordinary man ... its because mayavadas are tinged with envious, they want to condemn Krishna in some way ..

DD: Yes. False philosophy.

PADA: God causes some of us to fail, some to not fail, that blames God for our suffering ... its an attack on God's personality.

DD: Which can lead us to hell

PADA: Yes, its an attack on God's character personally.

DD: Exactly. It's laughable

PADA: It makes God a tyrant ... He blesses some and condemns some others, willy nilly, like an evil dictator.

DD: Their fake philosophy

PADA: Yes that is why i rejected Catholic church which preaches same basic thing ... there is no good explanation why some are with God and some are not?

DD: Yes. Even to a kid this won't sound right?

PADA: Anyway, that is why I argued with Gaura Govinda maharaja's folks, Kundali, Sridhara Maharaja's folks, Naryana Maharaja's folks etc., all of them are preaching this idea that we originated elsewhere, there is no elsewhere, there is Krishna and He is our original source and we are with Him at the source

So this has filtered in through these people and their followers ...

DD: This is pathetic. Fooling innocents. Even Srila Prabhupada's followers.

PADA: Yes, well they wanted to be cheated because they all know that Srila Prabhupada says, Back to Godhead, everyone knows that.

DD: Cheaters will get cheated

PADA: Yes, they wanted something, some position, some special glory as more advanced, and so on ...

DD: Yes that makes one fall down.

PADA: So they got position, but they did not get the proper jeeva tattva,

DD: Yes

PADA: And they often they also got the wrong guru tattva, Krishna tattva, and all the other tattvas. They went back to Vatican Pope jeeva tattva, Vatican Pope voting for gurus, all that, mundane religion.

DD: Blind leading the blind. It's dangerous. Even a slight deviation from Srila Prabhupada, and you are on your way to hell. 

PADA: Yes, so we are lucky to stick with the version given by the acharya. As for Jeeva Goswami and others, I would have never have heard of Jeeva Goswami anyway without Prabhupada.

DD: Yes. Same. He only teaches previous Acharya's teachings

PADA: So God is not a tyrant, they are tyrants, and they want God to be like them. They are trying to drag God to their level of thinking ... like a frog who thinks he can defeat the PHD scholar. Anyway, they are tinged with mayavada, that means, still having tinge of envy of Krishna.

DD: Yes. Thank you for explaining Prabhu. It really helped. We need to be saved from their foolish nirvisesa and sunnyavada.

PADA: Jayate. Yes, it was the GBC itself who brought all this into ISKCON. They brought in the Gaudiya Matha people, babajis and others, and then we had this "Back to Godhead is bogus" preaching starting to spin off off from their program. They are spawning competition to Srila Prabhupada's teachings.

DD: Yes correct, and thank you for your time. Hare Krishna!