Debate about Gaudiya Matha -- update (ys pd) ISKCON

PADA: ok good, and Prabhupada says it is an offense to say gurus fall down into illicit sex, therefore the Bombay crowd does not follow Srila Prabhupada, they say gurus become debauchees, they are wrong, very simple. ys pd

Martin A. Raghavendu Lewis: PADA, you make some good points, you just go about it the wrong way. Things are actually reaching a crossroads at this point in Gaudiya history. It is time for many to go back and sort things out. It is time for all Gaudiya institutions and not just Iskcon to get out of the guru rubber stamp business. Let he who is actually guru or acarya come out in a natural way. The problem is that institutions seek to perpetuate themselves and often at the expense of the truth. The perpetual Rtivk idea in Iskcon is a attempt at a solution but it may preclude the possibility a real guru manifesting . The idea that this is the final order of Srila Prabhupada lacks sufficient evidence to convince many.

Vinay Ramakrishnan: We have to have guru agreed ..but not one who has molested children ...if one is appointed by someone like prabhupada and then molests children and does all sorts of this and yet styles himself as sanyasi how can i accept him as guru? in Bhagavath Gita it is said "whatever a great man does common man will follow and look upto" so if a guru itself starts doing nonsense just imagine how the pupils will be ? no body can deny that there are supporters of murderers ,molesters and what not within iskcon ..the pupil might say to his parents .."mom dad ..my guru is a friend of a killer or a molester he is great i have to follow my guru and hence i also will become frnds with the fool ".....so what happens to the pupils ? are they not cheating themselves ? if you get a good guru thats fine but most of them at iskcon well..half the world knows about them lol ...if there are still people within iskcon following Prabhupada's order and continuing his work and is free from vice or any association with vice then they can become students of him ..otherwise learn from mother and father they are best Gurus.

PADA: Dear Martin I did not make any points, Srila Prabhupada says that your pal Sridhara maharaja made a homsexual into a guru in 1936, and this caused people like me (dissenters) to get beaten and killed. And after 1977 Sridhara maharaja did th...e same exact thing, he once again supported homosexuals as gurus and he said us dissenters were wrong, and we were the foolish ritviks because we did not worship his illicit sex with men acharya's project, so he simply got more people beaten and killed. And if it was not for fast action by the FBI after Sulochana was killed, (they found a note in Tirtha's pocket with a description of my vehicle meaning that I was next) Sridhara maharaja's policy would have had me killed. Sridhara maharaja is not authorized to have a flea killed, what to speak of his creating a policy where vaishnavas like Sulochana and dogs like me are to be killed. Even if I am a dog, Sridhara maharaja has no authority to have us dogs killed either. And neither do you have the authority to support his poicy where people are being banned, beaten, children molested and dissenters killed, which is what Sridhara policy did after 1936 in the Gaudiya Matha, your support of him and his policy means you are responsible for all these odious problems. The blood of the killed dissenters and molested children is on your hands Martin, since you supported their policy, and you uphold the leaders of that policy of supporting deviants as acharyas such as SM. ys pd

Martin A. Raghavendu Lewis: The idea that Sridhar Maharaja or anyone in the Gaudiya Math wanted an acarya, in the late 1930s, who was a "deviant" is an absurd proposition. It is safe to say that they did not know that Vausedeva was a deviant and that was part of the r...eason leading to their error in electing him acarya. Tim Lee over-uses circular reasoning for shock value and is the verbal shock and awe bogey man of the interenet. As soon as love letters were found between Vausedeva and his future wife, the Gaudiya Math GBC withdrew their support for him, but by then it was too late.

PADA: Dear Martin, Sridhara Maharaja DID know that Vasudeva was not qualified because Srila Saraswati said he was not going to appoint any acharya because none of them were qualified. Vasudeva told SM that he wanted to get married because he STILL has sex desire, so SM made a person with KNOWN mundane desires into acharya, again knowingly, Vasudeva told them he is not ready for acharya, but Srila Prabhupada says Sridhara "insisted on it" -- making KNOWN sex desire into the acharya. Yes, they wanted someone who was not qualified to be the acharya because they were told to make a GBC and not concoct acharyas. By 1980 Sridhara maharaja had been told the Jayatirtha was deviating, that Ramesvara wanted to resign [because he had a tendency to want to swim in the pool with the minor aged girls in their swimsuits?] that Hansadutta had been busted with a machine gun, that Tamal was saying he was the guru shakti of the universe, and so on, and YET Sridhara STILL said none should protest and these known deviants need to stay in the guru seat, so Sridhara was told they are deviants, and YET he said these deviants need to stay in the seat of acharya, so SM supports deviants as gurus even after he is told they are deviants, and you support Sridhara, so you support deviants as messiahs, so the blood of all the molested children and us dissenters is on your hands Martin, you are part of the karma of the banning, beating, molesting and murders because you support the biggest cheer leader of that regime Sridhara maharaja. If you want to know how ISKCON evolved into a murdering and molesting cult, go look in a mirror Martin. ys pd

PADA: Srila Prabhupada says the problem was all started by Sridhara maharaja, Srila Prabhupada said SM was the big leader of the Bagh Bazaar party, and Srila Prabhupada re-iterated that in 1977 as well: SP said that SM is the big leader of the "s...evere offender's Bagh Bazaar party" for SM making that deviation. Now of course Martin worships the severe offenders so he can get us dissenters offed. SM made a bogus guru in 1936, and SP explains, then this Vasudeva fellow began having illicit sex and so on, so Tirtha said, hey I can be as good as that, so I should be an acharya too, that is what Srila Prabhupada said, AFTER SM had made a bogus guru then many others like Tirtha, Madhava and others jumped on the guru band wagon, but SM STARTED it all. Vasudeva told SM I AM NOT READY TO BE ACHARYA, but SM insisted on it, because he wanted a person with material desires to be acharya, just like he propped up Jayatirtha AFTER SM was told JT was taking drugs, so SM wanted JT an his illicit sex, drugs, rock and roll music to be in the acharya's seat and he said we should not protest because he knew us dissenters could be killed, he wanted us to get beat and killed just like he did in 1936. None should protest drugs, sex and rock and roll, this is not embellishment, this is what happened. ys pd

[PADA: Martin made a quote here that I was like Mad magazine comedy, which he immediately deleted.]

PADA: Right, while thousands of children are getting molested due to SM and Martin policy of promoting deviants as gurus, and us dissenters are being beaten and killed, then Sridhara and Martin are laughing at the suffering they are creating. As ...soon as we point out that there is mass molesting and murder problem as a result of both Martin and Sridhara's program, then Martin laughs his socks off, he thinks his mass molesting a and murder acharya program is funny, just like Sridhara chuckles when reminded of Vasudeva, SM thinks beating and murder and posioning children is the funniest comedy hour show on earth. Hilarious! Mad magazine stuff! Just see, laughing that their policy molested thousands of children by promoting molesters as gurus, they think mass molesting and murder are Sunday paper funnies, laughing at the suffering of others, this is the symptom of a demon. Told ya! ys pd