Sunday, December 15, 2019

The Good, Bad and Ugly of Using Outsider's Help (With Mahesh)

Mahesh Raja: Prabhus

All Glories to Srila Prabhupada! Please accept my humble obeisances
Hare Krsna!

Among us, - some issues to know.

The problem with Bangalore folks going to other external sources is --- the external sources also are NOT as straight forward CLEAR as with Srila Prabhupada. Just to give you an example:

Srila Prabhupada says: "There is no possibility that a first-class devotee will fall down, even though he may mix with nondevotees to preach."

Now, read below:

ISKCON devotee: According to Madhva siddhanta, can a mahabhagavatha fall down? Uttam adhikari, mahabhagavatha?

Sri Bannanje Govindacarya: The question is irrelevant. Because if he is a mahabhagavatha, he cannot fall. If he falls down he is not a mahabhagavatha. What is the definition of mahabhagavatha? First we have to know that. According to the Bhagavata purana, a person who has practiced the vaishnava system according to Maha Srimad Bhagavatha and has reached certain level.

Then if he is mahabhagavatha, he cannot come down. He cannot fall down. Sometimes it happens, even realised souls have prarabhdha karma. That is also told. Even the realised souls who have seen Narayana face to face, eye to eye, Vishnu sakshat kara is there, after realisation also due to prarabdha karma also some people may fall down. That is there in the scriptures.

Generally mahabhagavatha cannot fall down -

Its very rare - some earth breaking instances -

You leave it, it's only for argument sake.



rati-prema-tāratamye bhakta--tara-tama
ekādaśa skandhe tāra kariyāche lakṣaṇa


rati—of attachment; prema—and love; tāratamye—by comparison; bhakta—devotee; tara-tama—superior and superlative; ekādaśa skandhe—in the Eleventh Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam; tāra—of him; kariyāche—has made; lakṣaṇa—symptoms.


"A devotee is considered superlative and superior according to his attachment and love. In the Eleventh Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the following symptoms have been ascertained.


Śrīla Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has stated that if one has developed faith in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is to be considered an eligible candidate for further advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Those who have faith are divided into three categories-uttama, madhyama and kaniṣṭha (first-class, second-class and neophyte). A first-class devotee has firm conviction in the revealed scriptures and is expert in arguing according to the śāstras. He is firmly convinced of the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The madhyama-adhikārī, or second-class devotee, has firm conviction in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but he cannot support his conviction by citing śāstric references. The neophyte devotee does not yet have firm faith. In this way the devotees are typed.

The standard of devotion is also categorized in the same way. A neophyte believes that only love of Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa consciousness is very good, but he may not know the basis of pure Kṛṣṇa consciousness or how one can become a perfect devotee. Sometimes in the heart of a neophyte there is attraction for karma, jñāna or yoga. When he is free and transcendental to mixed devotional activity, he becomes a second-class devotee. When he becomes expert in logic and can refer to the śāstras, he becomes a first-class devotee. The devotees are also described as positive, comparative and superlative, in terms of their love and attachment for Kṛṣṇa.

It should be understood that a madhyama-adhikārī, a second-class devotee, is fully convinced of Kṛṣṇa consciousness but cannot support his convictions with śāstric reference. A neophyte may fall down by associating with nondevotees because he is not firmly convinced and strongly situated. The second-class devotee, even though he cannot support his position with śāstric reference, can gradually become a first-class devotee by studying the śāstras and associating with a first-class devotee. However, if the second-class devotee does not advance himself by associating with a first-class devotee, he makes no progress. There is no possibility that a first-class devotee will fall down, even though he may mix with nondevotees to preach. Conviction and faith gradually increase to make one an uttama-adhikārī, a first-class devotee.

Note: NO NEED outside instruction WHATSOEVER:

73-12-25.Letter: Gurukrpa , Yasodanandana
Whatever is to be learned of the teachings of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura can be learned from our books. THERE IS NO NEED WHATSOEVER FOR ANY OUTSIDE INSTRUCTION.

Hare Krsna!

ys mahesh

[PADA: Correct. Hardly anyone can duplicate the teachings of Srila Prabhupada, including really -- just about cent percent of his Gaudiya Math God brothers, or even cent percent. The Gaudiya Matha folks just did not absorb the materials given by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura. Then again, our contemporary Srila Prabhupada's disciples, aka our own God brothers, rarely agreed with us when we said deviants are not acharyas, and a lot of them still fight with us on this issue. 

Many of them never understood that acharyas do not engage in illicit sex with men, women and children, never mind other topics. And that is why we have Alachua ISKCON advertising as "the biggest Srila Prabhupada devotee retirement community on earth." And Jayadvaita goes to the temple there to preach, and his idea is that Krishna's acharyas are often illicit sex with men, women and children deviants. 

And the people there are so compromised, dull and / or ineffective they cannot properly counter that program. So there is still a lot of compromise with the molester messiah's program now, never mind so many compromised at the outset in 1978. And the devotees in Alachua who complain about the GBC's "enforced cult ritualistic worship of homosexual pedophiles or porno swamis in samadhis" program there are often banned, removed, exiled and vilified in places like Alachua. The community cannot stand up to that odious deviation sufficiently because they are self-evidently too compromised as a group.

Bangalore ISKCON has never said that any scholars are fully duplicating Srila Prabhupada, however they wanted to show that at least some of the India scholars promoted by the ISKCON GBC can be countered with at least some of the more refined scholars of India. And so they found some scholars who are at least quite close to Srila Prabhupada's idea. At this stage we need all the help we can get. 

At the same time, PADA has done the same exact type thing here in the USA. We got the "outside" Christians and their scholars, police, FBI, courts, media and other sources of help us, to assist us in countering the GBC's "enforced cult ritualistic worship of homosexual pedophiles as messiahs regime -- that bans, beats and kills us dissenters." Bravo to the Christians for helping the Krishna devotees, because we are alike in many respects. They know for certain that deviants are not EVER God's messiahs, and we should all know that too.

Without the "outside help" of the Christians, especially their law enforcement, we would have been assassinated ourselves a long time ago. They arrested the GBC's hit man who had a description of my vehicle in his pocket. I was told by the police I am next on the GBC hit list, but the "outside" Christian's society saved me because they are closer to the teachings of Srila Prabhupada than the GBC folks are, so they know "thou shalt not kill" means -- we cannot kill the other Krishna folks (like me). 

So the Christians are clearly much closer to Srila Prabhupada's idea than the GBC, and that is also why their courts sued the GBC for $400,000,000 for their  molesting project, and their SWAT teams raided GBC properties and so on (with me sometimes acting as a consultant). And their media, etc. also helped us substantially expose these GBC criminals posing as messiahs etc. 

Even the Christians know that all this is bogus, never mind we would find a number of scholars in India who would also know that process is bogus. So we should get outside assistance when we can, I see no harm in that. And in fact without outside assistance, we could find ourselves being assassinated and so forth. So we may -- in fact need -- outside helpers as essential agents in the battle against violent molester messiah's projects.  

The Bangalore folks went to the "outside" Supreme Court in India to fight the GBC there, and the GBC allegedly spent $20,000,000 trying to stop the Prabhupadanugas there in the Supreme Court. So that means, Bangalore has done more than all the rest of us combined by getting these Srila Prabhupada documents submitted into the high court, not only the general court but the highest court in India. 

That is essential, so people in future will have a recorded legal record of what Srila Prabhupada wanted and intended. Bravo for them doing that, when the rest of the "big devotees" sat on their thumbs and did nothing like this. Whatever other so-called problems Bangalore has, this is certainly a big plus that future people will come to appreciate eventually.

So Bangalore has used some so-called outside scholars, outside courts, and so forth, and we have done similar things here, because outside people are prone to understand that the GBC's worship of illicit sex with men, women and children guru programs is a danger to human society. And they also pose a severe danger to people like us because -- they will send hit men to assassinate us, or they will sue folks etc. -- if they think they can get away with it.  
So the GBC went right away to outside people like Sridhara Maharaja, then Narayan Maharaja, Fakir Mohan, Babajis and others, so its fair game for us to find support from our own outsiders to counter them. And without the help of the outside folks and their courts in India, Bangalore would have been overtaken by the illicit sex acharya's process there a long time ago, so they have used outside people to defend their position -- and so has PADA.

And then again we have so-called "Srila Prabhupada faithful" people like Dayalu Nitai's HKC Jaipur folks, they also went to their ritvik bashing "outside sources," OK to the GBC's chief defenders and cheer leaders like Bhakta das, Hari Sauri, Hitler pada and others to try to defeat us, because they are still in bed with the children beater's messiah's association. Their thug Prahlad even said he was going to help the GBC's goons come and kill me, admitting directly that they are working hand in glove with the molester messiah's project's violent criminal goondas, and its program of banning if not assassinating the Vaishnavas who resist worship of their deviants. 

So once again the Christians and / or their police understand that defenders of anal sex pooja are dangerous deviants, while a lot of so-called devotees either cannot figure this out, or worse -- they defend the deviants. A police friend here told me, "These people (like GBC / HKC goonda thugs) won't kill and eat a cow, but they will kill and eat you, they want to drink your blood." So all sorts of people use "outside" resources, and so we should defend ourselves and use them too, if we can. 

And if the so-called "devotees" are less advanced than the so-called "outsiders," then -- we should take advantage of that process and use it to our advantage -- and we have. Its called dove-tailed use of other people to attain a higher purpose, of course my first purpose was -- to survive from their goons and hit men.

So the GBC and HKC Jaipur type folks too are using their ritvik bashing "outside helpers" to defend their anal sex pooja program. And some of them even made a petition to have PADA removed from the internet, so they can have children worship their anal sex pooja program without our protesting. So if our opponents try to use "outside helpers" for all sorts of purposes, we can use them too and when need be, we should. 

I hope more devotees will use this tactic, because when fighting a giant violent goonda's molester's messiah's program, we may need help, and we should not hesitate to get it. Because for starters, we should never forget -- the "outsiders" are ALL inside of Krishna. So they too are also Krishna's agents, His hands and legs, who can help us in certain instances, and they have. And all of the people who help us, whether scholars, police, mass media, book writers, courts or whatever it is, they will get credit from Krishna for assisting His sevakas.  

Anyway, this is interesting for our readers since we are getting double the hits now this year that we had last year. ys pd]

Mahesh: Hare Krsna!

((PADA: Good news is, we are getting twice as many hits on our blog as last December, more people are taking interest. ys pd ))

This is nice to hear - should keep all these discussions going - some sincere souls can get chance to leave the bogus IS-CON  gurus and accept Srila Prabhupada's shelter.

One thing to notice is that when we use Srila Prabhupada's QUOTES  the ENVIOUS Anti Ritviks can NOT defeat THEREFORE they seek EXTERNAL sources TO MANIPULATE eg Vedas, Gaudiya Matha literatures, sanskrit scholars, etc.  Srila Prabhupada QUOTES are the actual nail in their coffins.

Hare Krsna!

PADA: Yup!


Meanwhile people all over the world are catching up to speed, notice this public post someone sent us here .... 


  1. Dear PADA: After 42 criminal fake-gurus (it ain't over there), mass-eviction of thousands of monks out of their monastic temple life, carelessly accepting mass-suicides among gurukulis, the murder of Sulocana, this GBC clique cannot possibly be a group of saintly people. They are neither interested in genuine gurus nor are they interested in Ritvik.

    Their focus is to occupy already acquired land and properties and using ISKCON's not-for-profit temples to their own create private properties. Alone the properties in EU are meanwhile worth a few hundred million dollars. This has caused friction even among themselves.

    So practically we rank & file devotees were digging out our own grave by helping these leaders to acquire these farms and land. And in the meantime, the whole movement is now replaced with followers of the same mindset. Use BG teachings of "surrendering everything" to fleece the mass of people. On Facebook: "You are quoting Prabhupada? I'll kick you in your teeth"

    This is the new ISKCON congregation we are dealing with.

    "There will be fire", in connection with the fighting over rooms which had broken out amongst Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura's disciples at the Bagh bazar Gauḍīya Math. "When we were living in a rented house," he said, "if we could collect two hundred or three hundred rupees we were living very nicely at Ultadanga. We were happier then. But since we have been given this marble palace in Bagh bazar, there is friction between our men. Who will occupy this room? Who will occupy that room? Who will be the proprietor of this room? Everyone is planning in different ways. It would be better to take the marble from the walls and secure money. If I could do this and print books, that would be better." Then he turned to Śrīla Prabhupāda and said, "Āmar icchā chila kichu bai karānā": "I had a desire to print some books. If you ever get money, print books." Thus, important seeds were planted."

    [PADA: Yup!]

  2. “A person who establishes a temple or matha to take... advantage of people’s sentiments by using for his livelihood what people contribute for the worship of the Deity cannot be called a gosvami or acarya. One who knows the conclusion of the sastras, follows in the footsteps of his predecessors and endeavors to preach the bhakti cult all over the world is to be considered an acarya.

    The role of an acarya is not to earn his livelihood through the income of the temple. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura used to say that if one earns his livelihood by displaying the Deity in the temple, he is not an acarya or gosvami. It would be better for him to accept service even as a sweeper in the street, for that is a more honorable means of earning one’s living.”

    (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Antyalila 3.223, Bhaktivedanta Purport.)

  3. Thanks very much M Dasi. Yes you are right, if the Alachua "biggest Srila Prabhupada disciples retirement community on earth" allows the Jayadvaita illicit sex with men, women and children process to be worshiped there, imagine how the "new people" feel alienated and non-supported in other places around the globe because of the negligence and disrespect for their own acharya going on there. Yep, all because of their basically acquiescing not only now, but all along for the most part. And worse, a number of critics of our idea live there.

    Yep you are right, this is also why pedophiles and porno swamis are being buried in the dham and there is little or no outcry from these "senior people." So its right for you to say -- they laid down their weapons and surrendered to the false guru program almost right away in 1978 and they still are not protesting substantially now for the same reason, most of them are compromised with the evil doers and have been all along. So its a very sad commentary that the guru tries to save people, then they let jackals and fools be worshiped as their gurus successors -- knowing all along these are jackals and fools. Just like Bhakti Vikas swami recently admits he knew all along Kirtanananda was prone to be a deviant, and was thus not qualified to be an acharya. That means BVKS has been knowingly cheating others.

    Of course this happens in Kali Yuga, the rascal class take the post of heads of the religion and the mass of people acquiesce due to sentimental attachments for false institutions.

    Anyway, I am glad you say you are now woke up and won't be fooled again by this foolishness! And once a person truly wakes up, they cannot be put back to sleep by some bogus charlatan hypnotist scam. True dat! Sulochan said, he would rather fight a battle with one awake person that ten thousand dead asleep zombies, hee hee. And he is right, we appreciate the awake ones even if they are not large number, they are more valuable than many asleep folks. Anyway yes, its sad that so many "senior" people that Srila Prabhupada counted on to keep rogues and rascals out of his guru seat, failed to do their due diligence duty. At least you know who belongs in the seat, that is all that counts from Krishna's point of view. He knows who is asleep at the switch and who is not ... ys pd

    This is supposed to be a model community where Srila Prabhupada would be the central acharya, instead we have all sorts of hokey acharyas and followers of Gaudiya Matha, Paramadvaiti and who knows what.

  4. “If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are most intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.”

    —Karl Popper,
    The Open Society and Its Enemies

  5. The ISKCON LAW BOOK states in page 69 TX as follows:

    "That if a guru has become hopelessly entangled in sense gratification and it has been shown either by observation or from his own admission, that he has been regularly violating the regulative principles of Krishna consciousness, and if there is virtually no hope for his rectification, then the disciple should reject him and may accept reinitiation." There are also few points to consider on this above GBC "law".
    (A) Here the GBC very mercifully' allows the "disciple" of the fallen "ISKCON Guru" to once more try out his luck by shuffling or kicking him or her around like "football" to another of one their elected voted "eternal Gurus".

    (B) The subject of "reinitiation' was never mentioned even once by Srila Prabhupada in all of his books, tapes, or letters.

    (C) In fact Srila Prabhupada clearly warns in the Chaitanya Charitamrta Adi lila chapter 1 Text 35 purport, "A devotee must have only one initiating spiritual master, because in the scriptures acceptance of more than one initiating Guru is always forbidden". The fact that Srila Prabhupada mentions that a devotee must have only one initiating Spiritual master is already clear prove that Srila Prabhupada is definitely not referring to a conditioned soul, apt to fall down any time from his spiritual regulative principles as mentioned in the ISKCON "law" Book, and definitely not the species of "gurus" that the GBC has been promoting since the past 26 years.


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