Female Diksa Guru in “ISKCON”
by Dhanesvara Dasa
Despite all of the ongoing debate and all that has said about it, this issue is not primarily about some individuals desiring to have a woman as their initiating guru, nor that woman’s acceptance of the same. The reason this issue has achieved such intensity of emotion and rhetoric is actually quite different.
The actual reason is the manner in which the GBC have defined ISKCON, and the acceptance of that definition by the members currently active within the society. That is to say, ISKCON is presently defined by its leadership as a monolithic command - control institution that sets standards all members must accept, and to which they must conform their understanding and behavior.
The fact is that this issue could very quickly and easily become a non-issue simply by adopting the understanding of the society that many, including this author, believe that Srila Prabhupada intended, which is simply a group of like-minded people who come together to share their common interest by following a set of principles that promote individual spiritual development. By this definition, the society is non-institutional.
The distinction between institutional and non-institutional forms of organization is the difference in the relationship between the organization per se and those who comprise it. In non-institutional systems, the organization is little more than a convenience, an informal tool that serves and assists its members, each of whom further their individual interests through participation in the group. Such organizations have no independent identity or purposes of their own separate from that of the members. They represent only the composite of the personal objectives of the members.
However, in contradistinction to this, the definition of an institution, and specifically the institution that ISKCON has become, is:
A permanent social organization with purposes of its own, having formalized and structured rules and methods for pursuing those purposes, and making and enforcing rules of conduct in order to control those within it. An institution is an independent, self-justifying, self-perpetuating organization that, for all practical purposes, is not accountable to, nor under the control of, its members.
[PADA: Yes, that has been the first problem. The rank and file members of ISKCON were systematically purged by the bogus leaders, and they had little to no recourse to sustain their positions in the ISKCON organization. And worse, the leaders then went off the reservation into all sorts of deviations that lead to child abuse, criminality, police raids, murders, bad publicity and ultimately -- bankrupting the ISKCON institution.
At the same time, had the rank and file members joined together in some sort of class action lawsuit -- to prove the leaders were committing for example fraud by posing as gurus, that could have potentially saved us from at least some of the substantial damage.]
Herein lies the root of all of the controversy surrounding the idea of a Vaishnava female diksa guru (FDG): the efforts of the leadership to make and enforce rules of conduct in order to control those within it. In common language – the effort to shoehorn everyone into a common understanding and behavior.
It must be patently obvious that this is an exercise in futility that can only be accomplished to a very limited extent, for the simple fact that it is impossible to dictate consciousness! I suggest that instead, the society that Srila Prabhupada intended to create was a loose affiliation wherein members would ascribe to, and endeavor to their best ability, to follow the principles of the Gaudiya Vaishnava siddhanta. The siddhanta has long been established and is presented in the teachings of our Acharyas for the benefit of those who aspire to achieve spiritual perfection.
[PADA: Of course this begs the question, what is the siddhanta? And our understanding is that neophytes cannot take the post of diksha gurus for all sorts of reasons, including that it creates violent maverick messiah cults. It is also for this reason that the Christians are very skeptical of persons claiming to be "the new guru successors to Jesus." They understand that this type of rank and title is not to be used by the common layman.]
In such a society there would be no dictates, coercion or imposition on anyone. Everyone is expected to voluntarily follow to the highest degree that they are able. Neither understanding nor realization can be dictated, and if any person is unable to follow the standard, that is nobody’s problem but their own. No problem for anyone else.
Despite all of the ongoing debate and all that has said about it, this issue is not primarily about some individuals desiring to have a woman as their initiating guru, nor that woman’s acceptance of the same. The reason this issue has achieved such intensity of emotion and rhetoric is actually quite different.
The actual reason is the manner in which the GBC have defined ISKCON, and the acceptance of that definition by the members currently active within the society. That is to say, ISKCON is presently defined by its leadership as a monolithic command - control institution that sets standards all members must accept, and to which they must conform their understanding and behavior.
The fact is that this issue could very quickly and easily become a non-issue simply by adopting the understanding of the society that many, including this author, believe that Srila Prabhupada intended, which is simply a group of like-minded people who come together to share their common interest by following a set of principles that promote individual spiritual development. By this definition, the society is non-institutional.
The distinction between institutional and non-institutional forms of organization is the difference in the relationship between the organization per se and those who comprise it. In non-institutional systems, the organization is little more than a convenience, an informal tool that serves and assists its members, each of whom further their individual interests through participation in the group. Such organizations have no independent identity or purposes of their own separate from that of the members. They represent only the composite of the personal objectives of the members.
However, in contradistinction to this, the definition of an institution, and specifically the institution that ISKCON has become, is:
A permanent social organization with purposes of its own, having formalized and structured rules and methods for pursuing those purposes, and making and enforcing rules of conduct in order to control those within it. An institution is an independent, self-justifying, self-perpetuating organization that, for all practical purposes, is not accountable to, nor under the control of, its members.
[PADA: Yes, that has been the first problem. The rank and file members of ISKCON were systematically purged by the bogus leaders, and they had little to no recourse to sustain their positions in the ISKCON organization. And worse, the leaders then went off the reservation into all sorts of deviations that lead to child abuse, criminality, police raids, murders, bad publicity and ultimately -- bankrupting the ISKCON institution.
At the same time, had the rank and file members joined together in some sort of class action lawsuit -- to prove the leaders were committing for example fraud by posing as gurus, that could have potentially saved us from at least some of the substantial damage.]
Herein lies the root of all of the controversy surrounding the idea of a Vaishnava female diksa guru (FDG): the efforts of the leadership to make and enforce rules of conduct in order to control those within it. In common language – the effort to shoehorn everyone into a common understanding and behavior.
It must be patently obvious that this is an exercise in futility that can only be accomplished to a very limited extent, for the simple fact that it is impossible to dictate consciousness! I suggest that instead, the society that Srila Prabhupada intended to create was a loose affiliation wherein members would ascribe to, and endeavor to their best ability, to follow the principles of the Gaudiya Vaishnava siddhanta. The siddhanta has long been established and is presented in the teachings of our Acharyas for the benefit of those who aspire to achieve spiritual perfection.
[PADA: Of course this begs the question, what is the siddhanta? And our understanding is that neophytes cannot take the post of diksha gurus for all sorts of reasons, including that it creates violent maverick messiah cults. It is also for this reason that the Christians are very skeptical of persons claiming to be "the new guru successors to Jesus." They understand that this type of rank and title is not to be used by the common layman.]
In such a society there would be no dictates, coercion or imposition on anyone. Everyone is expected to voluntarily follow to the highest degree that they are able. Neither understanding nor realization can be dictated, and if any person is unable to follow the standard, that is nobody’s problem but their own. No problem for anyone else.
[PADA: Maybe? However, if a person is claiming to be a leader, whether temple president or guru, and he is exploiting -- say for example -- the brahmacharini ladies for sex, then he is hurting all sorts of other people, and he is hurting the image of the religion. And he is exposing the religion to bad media if not lawsuits. So there has to be some guard rails guiding the standards expected of leaders especially.
And there needs to be some form of formal Church Council (Governing Body) that will in fact dictate that deviant, apa-siddhanta, or worse -- illicit or illegal activity in the name of the religion will not be tolerated. There has also been in ISKCON a sub-group of "dressed like brahmanas" males who have come to the religion to exploit various ladies, or even exploit other men or worse -- small children, for illicit sex.
And thus we cannot say these people are not causing problems for others, or that they should not be monitored, contained and if need be, removed from the premises, or perhaps have the police arrest them for crimes against the ISKCON citizens. Nor can we acquiesce with the bogus leaders, temple presidents and / or so-called gurus who enable, facilitate, cover up for, and allow such crimes to go on in the society. There has to be protection of women and children, bare minimum, and there needs to be a kshatriya force that will perform that function.]
And if anyone would choose to ignore the standards set by the Acharyas, to create their own standard, again, no problem – either in India or anywhere else in the world. After all, there are already billions of people in this world who do not follow the Vaishnava standards and their fallen behavior is of little interest (save for the fact that the Vaishnava desires to help them – para upakara).
And if anyone would choose to ignore the standards set by the Acharyas, to create their own standard, again, no problem – either in India or anywhere else in the world. After all, there are already billions of people in this world who do not follow the Vaishnava standards and their fallen behavior is of little interest (save for the fact that the Vaishnava desires to help them – para upakara).
There are already perhaps hundreds of bogus gurus and teachers whose beliefs and behavior have no bearing whatsoever on the Vaishnavas. There are already so many sahajiyas. So what? They have no bearing on the Gaudiya Vaishnava principles, nor those who follow them. And if ISKCON were simply defined as those persons who desire and endeavor to follow those principles, others who choose not to follow those principles would be of no consequence. They all fall under the same heading – the cheaters and the cheated.
[PADA: That is skirting the problem, that this cheating is going on in the name of Krishna, ISKCON, Srila Prabhupada, Vaishnavas and so forth. We cannot allow the original ideals of the society to be misrepresented, as it currently is. Even now various people write to me on a regular basis -- very confused about who is in what camp, what camp follows and which does not, and so forth. That is because the bogus camps have merged in the public eye with the bona fide original ISKCON, and its even hard for many senior devotees to separate what is what, who is who, what is right and what is wrong, never mind the public.]
In a non-institutional ISKCON society if some woman wanted, without the requisite qualification, to contravene shastra and give diksa to some followers – let them do so! It would reflect only on those individuals and no one else – it would have no bearing whatsoever on a non-institutional ISKCON that was explicitly and publicly dedicated to following Gaudiya Vaishnava principles.
[PADA: That has not been the problem. Independent maverick gurus are perhaps fine, if they are not linked to ISKCON. Agreed, there are hundreds if not thousands of bogus gurus and groups, which are not our problem. However, if they are claiming to be linked to Krishna, Srila Prabhupada, Bhagavad Gita, ISKCON etc., then -- that becomes our problem because it lumps us in with them in the minds of the general public and even among some in the Vaishnava communities.]
So this entire debate can quickly be put to rest IF the GBC leadership would agree to re-define ISKCON as a non-institutional organization dedicated to the principles of Gaudiya Vaishnava siddhanta, which is I suspect (without knowing it to be the case), the manner in which the other sampradayas function.
[PADA: Other sampradayas have senior leadership councils, and a management system. They also are not fond of maverick independent gurus taking away manpowers and assets of their society either. There has to be a system of checks and balances within the institution, to keep maverick gurus from sprouting and usurping things.]
In order to do so however, the GBC must relinquish their absolute control over the society, and make it their purpose to be guides rather than controllers. They would have to demonstrate that by allowing all temples to function as independent entities, something of a franchise that follows the principles of Gaudiya Vaishnava siddhanta. To demonstrate this definition of the society would the GBC would be required to repeal the vast majority of the entries in their law book allowing full individual freedom to members of the society to follow to the degree that they are able.
[PADA: ISKCON's leaders have been engaged in a highly calculated plan to have the original devotees of ISKCON banned, beaten, sued, exiled, removed and sometimes assassinated, so they could usurp the manpower, assets and properties. Why would they give up their stolen booty now, after going through all this trouble to get it?
As one of them confided to a PADA associate, "We are stuck being gurus until the day we die. If we give up being gurus what would we do now, drive a taxi? We are too old to start a new career, this is our career." Thus they are sort of economically locked into the current status quo, even if they wanted to break away, they are too attached to the easy flow of money and servants that they enjoy now.]
The question then is whether the GBC will allow this issue to create a vast division in the society resulting in an Indian ISKCON v. other ISKCONs, a fracturing following in the footsteps of the Gaudiya Math, or whether they will abandon their absolute control and unite the society on the basis of Gaudiya Vaishnava principles.
Those who doubt that this is indeed the solution to the FDG issue need look no further than those devotees who have already abandoned the GBC’s institutional command - control organization, yet remain dedicated Vaishnavas. For those individuals this is a non-issue, if not a ridiculous exercise of some attempting to control the understanding and behavior of others. Let them do what they will do – it has no bearing whatsoever on the Gaudiya Vaishnava siddhanta and those who voluntarily follow.
In service,
Dhanesvara Das
[PADA: Well this is largely correct. Most Vaishnavas are now separate from the official ISKCON institution. And as such, the institution is re-forming into a sort of "Hindu cultural hall" model, where more and more Hindus are engaged in operating the remnants of ISKCON assets.
And the GBC's gurus are thus using the donations from the Hindus as their cash cow retirement / jet set lifestyle fund. Its unlikely they will relinquish control of their cash cow, its simply too profitable. And since they had to go through a lot of trouble over the years having us banned, beaten, exiled, sued and assassinated, they are not going to give up their hard work plan so readily.
So our idea is to make a sort of grass roots alternate process, not so much a formal institution at this stage, but based on the principle of worship of the acharya. The Christians have many separated factions, but the one principle that unites them all is that everyone worships the acharya.
I envision a similar concept emerging from the fire of the ISKCON burnt wreckage eventually. And later on hopefully we can get enough of these diverse Prabhupadanuga camps to unite on some sort of unified field for the purpose of book printing, making large scale programs and temples, creating varnasrama communities and so on. The idea that we can let independent maverick people use the name of Srila Prabhupada, Krishna, ISKCON, Bhagavad Gita and so forth has given all of these names a black eye.
We need to defend the good name of ISKCON and its by-products, and some form of checks and balances of organization is what Srila Prabhupada wanted and ordered for us to do to insure the good name is upheld. Its our duty to try to create that process.]
Hare Krishna
The concept of institution v. non-institutional society is elaborately explained in the concluding chapters of my recent book: “Divine Or Demoniac? Spiritual Movements and the Enemies Within”. Look there for further details.
My newest book discusses the demoniac control of religion
Get it on Amazon now.
[PADA: Right, the demoniac have taken charge because the acquiescing rank and file allowed and enabled that process without putting up a good fight. Bad people flourish when good people step aside and allow them to do so. I contend that allowing more nonsense in the name of Krishna is hurting us, and its hurting ISKCON's name. We have to at least attempt to counteract this demoniac process or be held accountable for allowing the work of Srila Prabhupada to be destroyed and dragged into the mud by the asura elements. ys pd]
[PADA: That is skirting the problem, that this cheating is going on in the name of Krishna, ISKCON, Srila Prabhupada, Vaishnavas and so forth. We cannot allow the original ideals of the society to be misrepresented, as it currently is. Even now various people write to me on a regular basis -- very confused about who is in what camp, what camp follows and which does not, and so forth. That is because the bogus camps have merged in the public eye with the bona fide original ISKCON, and its even hard for many senior devotees to separate what is what, who is who, what is right and what is wrong, never mind the public.]
In a non-institutional ISKCON society if some woman wanted, without the requisite qualification, to contravene shastra and give diksa to some followers – let them do so! It would reflect only on those individuals and no one else – it would have no bearing whatsoever on a non-institutional ISKCON that was explicitly and publicly dedicated to following Gaudiya Vaishnava principles.
[PADA: That has not been the problem. Independent maverick gurus are perhaps fine, if they are not linked to ISKCON. Agreed, there are hundreds if not thousands of bogus gurus and groups, which are not our problem. However, if they are claiming to be linked to Krishna, Srila Prabhupada, Bhagavad Gita, ISKCON etc., then -- that becomes our problem because it lumps us in with them in the minds of the general public and even among some in the Vaishnava communities.]
So this entire debate can quickly be put to rest IF the GBC leadership would agree to re-define ISKCON as a non-institutional organization dedicated to the principles of Gaudiya Vaishnava siddhanta, which is I suspect (without knowing it to be the case), the manner in which the other sampradayas function.
[PADA: Other sampradayas have senior leadership councils, and a management system. They also are not fond of maverick independent gurus taking away manpowers and assets of their society either. There has to be a system of checks and balances within the institution, to keep maverick gurus from sprouting and usurping things.]
In order to do so however, the GBC must relinquish their absolute control over the society, and make it their purpose to be guides rather than controllers. They would have to demonstrate that by allowing all temples to function as independent entities, something of a franchise that follows the principles of Gaudiya Vaishnava siddhanta. To demonstrate this definition of the society would the GBC would be required to repeal the vast majority of the entries in their law book allowing full individual freedom to members of the society to follow to the degree that they are able.
[PADA: ISKCON's leaders have been engaged in a highly calculated plan to have the original devotees of ISKCON banned, beaten, sued, exiled, removed and sometimes assassinated, so they could usurp the manpower, assets and properties. Why would they give up their stolen booty now, after going through all this trouble to get it?
As one of them confided to a PADA associate, "We are stuck being gurus until the day we die. If we give up being gurus what would we do now, drive a taxi? We are too old to start a new career, this is our career." Thus they are sort of economically locked into the current status quo, even if they wanted to break away, they are too attached to the easy flow of money and servants that they enjoy now.]
The question then is whether the GBC will allow this issue to create a vast division in the society resulting in an Indian ISKCON v. other ISKCONs, a fracturing following in the footsteps of the Gaudiya Math, or whether they will abandon their absolute control and unite the society on the basis of Gaudiya Vaishnava principles.
Those who doubt that this is indeed the solution to the FDG issue need look no further than those devotees who have already abandoned the GBC’s institutional command - control organization, yet remain dedicated Vaishnavas. For those individuals this is a non-issue, if not a ridiculous exercise of some attempting to control the understanding and behavior of others. Let them do what they will do – it has no bearing whatsoever on the Gaudiya Vaishnava siddhanta and those who voluntarily follow.
In service,
Dhanesvara Das
[PADA: Well this is largely correct. Most Vaishnavas are now separate from the official ISKCON institution. And as such, the institution is re-forming into a sort of "Hindu cultural hall" model, where more and more Hindus are engaged in operating the remnants of ISKCON assets.
And the GBC's gurus are thus using the donations from the Hindus as their cash cow retirement / jet set lifestyle fund. Its unlikely they will relinquish control of their cash cow, its simply too profitable. And since they had to go through a lot of trouble over the years having us banned, beaten, exiled, sued and assassinated, they are not going to give up their hard work plan so readily.
So our idea is to make a sort of grass roots alternate process, not so much a formal institution at this stage, but based on the principle of worship of the acharya. The Christians have many separated factions, but the one principle that unites them all is that everyone worships the acharya.
I envision a similar concept emerging from the fire of the ISKCON burnt wreckage eventually. And later on hopefully we can get enough of these diverse Prabhupadanuga camps to unite on some sort of unified field for the purpose of book printing, making large scale programs and temples, creating varnasrama communities and so on. The idea that we can let independent maverick people use the name of Srila Prabhupada, Krishna, ISKCON, Bhagavad Gita and so forth has given all of these names a black eye.
We need to defend the good name of ISKCON and its by-products, and some form of checks and balances of organization is what Srila Prabhupada wanted and ordered for us to do to insure the good name is upheld. Its our duty to try to create that process.]
Hare Krishna
The concept of institution v. non-institutional society is elaborately explained in the concluding chapters of my recent book: “Divine Or Demoniac? Spiritual Movements and the Enemies Within”. Look there for further details.
My newest book discusses the demoniac control of religion
Get it on Amazon now.
[PADA: Right, the demoniac have taken charge because the acquiescing rank and file allowed and enabled that process without putting up a good fight. Bad people flourish when good people step aside and allow them to do so. I contend that allowing more nonsense in the name of Krishna is hurting us, and its hurting ISKCON's name. We have to at least attempt to counteract this demoniac process or be held accountable for allowing the work of Srila Prabhupada to be destroyed and dragged into the mud by the asura elements. ys pd]
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