PADA vs Akruranath (Adam R Bernstein)

NS: Let's hope Srila Prabhupadaji's Iskcon B'lore wins this property case ... from the never satisfying greedy Iskcon Mumbai ... who anyhow want this Iskcon because it generates good money ... and money can be spent well by unauthorized self made self declared gurus of Iskcon and get it transported to overseas.. loot through saffron... haha..truth is bitter...why the hell Iskcon Mumbai is running court to court to snatch Iskcon B'lore just because of money and only money .. rascal fraud gurus don't luv Krishna and Srila Prabhupada.. but hungry of more and more property and money....

[PADA: The current (and corrupt) ISKCON Governing Body (GBC) claims in their many diverse documents, lectures and etc. that their acharyas are often falling down and are prone to being debauchees, therefore its not "just about the money" -- its about changing the status of God's successors from "pure" to "illicit sex" and "debauchees." 

The current bogus GBC essentially wants to declare that Krishna's successors are often degraded low class individuals, so they can degrade Vedic authority and related guru lineage structure of the Krishna religion, and thereby ruin the good name of Krishna and ISKCON and so forth. This is what they have been doing all along since 1977. Its like declaring that the village drunk is the successor to the King, its an insult to the King, the country, the citizens etc. This is meant to destroy the authority of the King.]

DG: Yeah.. its all about money.  rather than preaching they are fighting for property.

PDA: Profit adoration and distinction and maintaining this attitude the properties which are Srila Prabhupada s are still functioning nicely for the purpose connecting the public with Lord Krishna .unfortunately so much money which has been given in charity has been squandered when it could of been used in Krishnas service.

AAD: Who is behind ISKCON Mumbai? Juhu Beach? Gopal Krsna? Pita Dasa can you fill me in please Prabhu. Do you know our Godbrother who took sannyas who we knew as Janardan das once with RDTSK who is in Bangalore?

PDA: Janardana Prabhu took sannyasa from HH Narayana Maharaja is is running a Gaudiya Matha center in Bangalore. What has occurred at Bangalore temple in my humble opinion is the misunderstanding of how to represent Srila Prabhupada without taking His Divine Grace out the center. It's a very long story which began over so many misunderstandings all the leaders in India are part. May they all cooperate.

Akruranatha Dasa What is basically going on is that "ISKCON Bangalore" actually broke out of ISKCON and does not accept the ecclesiastical authority of the GBC. Perhaps it is all really over money and control, but the ostensible dispute is about the so-called "ritvik" issue.

Madhu pandit et al. accuse the GBC of deviating from Srila Prabhupada's alleged instruction that he shall remain the only authorized guru in ISKCON (or in the whole world?) for the next 10,000 years or for the remainder of Kali yuga, and that none of his disciples could ever become bona fide gurus in disciplic succession. Rather, in their view, Srila Prabhupada continues to accept disciples after his departure and henceforward all devotees ought to accept initiation from him only, sort of the way Jesus is the sole intermediary between man and God in Protestant Christianity.

[PADA: Akruranatha's party even said Srila Prabhupada is their "writer for hire" in their BBTI court case. Srila Prabhupada is their paid servant. And now they apparently think that the GBC's gurus -- who are often caught engaged in illicit activity -- can be diksha gurus, and can act like Jesus and "absorb sins." How can debauchees absorb sins like Jesus? 

Various GBC followers have been telling PADA for years that their gurus are suffering from things like -- incurable migraine headaches, all sorts of sickness, moral scandals and fall downs and so forth -- all due to "accepting sins from their disciples." How did their gurus become "like Jesus" where they could absorb sins in the first place? 

Srila Prabhupada says we neophytes cannot even allow people to touch our feet or we will be acting as diksha gurus and accepting karma, and we will get sick, fall down, or both because we are not qualified to absorb the sins of others. Who authorized the GBC to declare that neophytes can absorb sins like Jesus? 

Yes, Jesus is the intermediary, for the Christians, whereas Charles Manson, David Koresh, Jim Jones and others are -- not! Anyway, here is the result of accepting sins without being qualified:]

Falling down, sick and /or dying -- from accepting sins?

Akruranatha Das: ISKCON's GBC has reviewed the much-debated argument concerning guru succession for many years and has repeatedly declared it to be a heresy, not supported by scriptures, prior acaryas, or Srila Prabhupada's books and lectures, which always emphasized the traditional "parampara" system in which successive generations of disciples become gurus for the next generation in an unbroken chain (see, e.g., Bhagavad-gita 4.1-3)

[PADA: The GBC says their gurus -- who are falling into illicit sex, drugs and so forth, are part of the "traditional" and "unbroken" chain of gurus. Where is "the tradition" of worship of illicit sex gurus mentioned in the Vedas? Where is this tradition found? 

This is amazing, the unbroken chain from God starts out with God, and its pure from hundreds of trillion years ago until the year 1977, and then God's chain of succession all of a sudden contains illicit sex, drugs, and criminals after 1977. How did that happen? Basically this means Akruranath's program is saying God is Himself a deviant because His successors are deviants, which is worse than atheism. 

At least the atheists are not insulting God by saying debauchees are His successors? The atheists, to their great credit, are fairly neutral towards God, whereas Akruranath's program is attacking God by saying His successors are degraded fools. In any case, there is no "tradition" of saying God's successors are often debauchees and criminals, in the Krishna religion or any other bona fide religion.]

AD: Under the "ritvik" view, disciples of Srila Prabhupada may serve as officiating priests or "ritviks" in ceremonies at which Srila Prabhupada becomes the direct spiritual master of the new initiate, thus obviating any concern about whether the "ritvik" is an advanced devotee who can perform the functions of initiating spiritual master.

[PADA: Right, a priest does not absorb the sins of the flock, whereas various fools in the Akruranatha guru line think they are another Jesus, and that they can absorb sins like Jesus. Its not working! Many of them are getting sick and falling down, they are not qualified to absorb sins like Jesus. Of course this is simultaneously an attack by the Akruranatha party on Jesus, by comparing him to conditioned souls.]

Jesus can absorb sins -- and debauchees can ALSO absorb sins? Why does the Akruranath program promote the idea debauchees are Jesus-like?

AD: The argument did not originate with Madhu pandit but became popular in the late 1980s after a number of the original 11 "zonal acaryas" fell down.

[PADA: Here we go again, -- first of all the ISKCON GBC guru folks said their 11 are God's pure devotee successors and acharyas, and they are like Jesus because they are diksha gurus who are able to absorb sins like Jesus, but ooops, now they are falling down --- because they absorbed too many sins? That means you folks made a huge mistake when you said the 11 are acharyas who can absorb sins in the first instance. And now their whole platform is that acharyas make huge mistakes, and they are overwhelmed when they take sins?

For starters, acharyas are not falling down. How did the GBC make the mistake of appointing 11 false zonal acharyas if they are perfected acharyas themselves? What is a zonal acharya? Which previous gurus had zones? Why does the GBC still allocate zones to their acharyas, such as Jayapataka STILL has the zone of Mayapur? Every year the GBC STILL allocates zones for their acharyas, this process has never been removed.]

Akruranatha Das: However, Madhu pandit did not embrace that ideology until much later. During the whole time the Bangalore temple was built he was a loyal disciple of His Holiness Jayapataka Swami and the funds for building the temple were collected in the name of ISKCON.

[PADA: Right, while Jayapataka, was building his illicit sex messiah's regime which was banning, beating, molesting and killing devotees, and ruining the name of ISKCON in the process, it took some time for a lot of people to figure this out, although most did eventually. Agreed. How does that make the process of banning, beating, molesting and killing of vaishnavas authorized?]

AD: Actually, although Madhu pandit's group calls iself "ISKCON Bangalore", it has in fact seceeded from the system of management established by Srila Prabhupada, in which the Governing Body Commission (ISKCON Governing Body Commission (GBC)) is the ultimate managing authority (see, http://gbc.iskcon.org ) , and has in reality become a non-ISKCON organization, independent of and competing with ISKCON proper.

[PADA: ISKCON is where the pure devotee is being worshiped. Non-ISKCON is where the GBC forces people to worship their illicit sex acharyas. ISKCON is not a corporation, its a system of worship of the Supreme God and His gurus. Jesus says wherever people gather to worship him, he is present there. Similarly, wherever people gather to worship Srila Prabhupada, that is ISKCON. Srila Prabhupada said the Gaudiya Matha was a fight over bricks and stones, it was not a siddhanta issue, it was a property grab in the name of siddhanta.]

Akruranatha Das: Because of the religious ideology surrounding their dispute over the guru system, however, many "ritvik" proponents (including those involved with Madhupandit das) consider themselves to be the "real" ISKCON, adopting the position that the GBC, by having rejected their theory that Srila Prabhupada is the only spiritual master, has become devoid of authority, giving moral justification to Madhupandit and his group to claim the right to govern ISKCON (or what they regard as the genuine ISKCON), in spite of Srila Prabhupada's clear grant of authority to the GBC.

[PADA: Where does Srila Prabhupada authorize the GBC to enforce the worship of their illicit sex fools as Krishna's successors and acharyas?]

Akruranatha Das: The legal dispute turns on which entity owns the Bangalore Property. The legal arrangement Srila Prabhupada made was that all branches of ISKCON in India were actually owned by a single corporation in Mumbai. All ISKCON temples all over India send accounts to the Mumbai management which publishes consolidated financial statements.

A previous dispute with another break away ISKCON temple in Kolkata, led by Adri Dharan Das, resulted in a victory for ISKCON and its GBC. The Kolkata ISKCON temple was thus restored to management by the mainstream ISKCON, legally under the ownership of ISKCON Mumbai, and ecclesiastically loyal to the GBC.

The High Court of Karnataka has found that when Madhu pandit started ISKCON Bangalore (while he was still loyal to ISKCON's GBC and his guru Jayapataka Swami), he formed an independent corporation, but upon realizing that the new temple was to be a branch of ISKCON Bombay he did not use that corporation and it remained inactive. However, the Court found that after he decided to break with ISKCON and become the leader of a rival organization, he backdated documents and appointed loyal confederates as co-signers to make it falsely appear that the Property had been owned by that independent corporation all along.

[PADA: The High Court of Karnataka has found that ISKCON Bombay's leadership has promoted criminal fraud in this case, and some of the biggest exponents of Jayapataka have been charged with criminal actions.] 

Akruranatha Das: It would be nice if the two groups could meet some kind of accord and devotees from all temples and organizations could be part of a single ISKCON. However, the religious schizm over the proper system of initiating new disciples has taken on heated tones and the "ritvik" groups often employ scathing, "poison pen" style rhetoric denouncing all spiritual masters and senior devotees in ISKCON in extremely inflammatory terms. In order to appeal to the local population, the Madhupandit group also appeals to xenophobic sentiments, criticizing ISKCON's leadership as being non-Indian and non-Hindu.

[PADA: Right, well the GBC uses "poison pens" against anyone who says they are not going to worship their illicit sex messiahs, which is how the GBC gets us dissenters banned, beaten and killed. Satsvarupa said we are poison pens, and that is in part how the GBC's program got Sulochana killed.] 

Akruranatha Das: For their part, the body of ISKCON members loyal to the GBC would look askance at the GBC's making of a compromise on fundamental philosophical principles regarding the meaning of disciplic succession. Unfortunately, therefore, it appears that no compromise settlement can be reached, and the case is headed for decision by the Supreme Court of India.

[PADA: Again, the disciple succession from God is not full of illicit sex, drugs and crimes, sorry to have to report this to Mr. Akruranath.]

Akruranath Das: Observers fear, however, that in the event the Supreme Court decides in favor of ISKCON Mumbai (i.e., the mainstream of ISKCON which remains loyal to the GBC), the religious ideologues who run the rival orgabnization will defy the decision and step up their propaganda campaign to discredit the GBC and the mainstream of ISKCON, and as a result the image and reputation of Srila Prabhupada's movement will be besmirched.

[PADA: Right, we will never worship illicit sex, period. Even dogs do not worship illicit sex.] 

ISKCON GBC. Official website of the Governing Body Commission (GBC) for the International Society for Krishna... GBC.ISKCON.ORG

PDA: If we attempt to sell pure unalloyed gold in the market but in fact is no where near the quality of pure there will always be friction . Srila Prabhupada never appointed any of his discilples as Guru (pure gold ) His Divine Grace appointed 11 ridviks Acarya transparent to the previous Acarya (His Divine Grace) wanted that the founder Acarya be always placed within the center of ISKCON and his representive ridvik Acaryas train the new persons coming into ISKCON. These representive Acaryas tho we're very careful that the new persons coming to ISKCON worshiped themselves at the same level or even more so that we previous showed our founder Acarya (5 day Vyas pujas ect ect ect ) giving 300 persons intiation at the same time (who will train ?) and these habit are still going on .
Without Madhupandit Prabhu ISKCON would not reform therefore Srila Prabhupada has blessed him with extraordinary Success.

AAD: Prabhupada told us many times that he gave us everything we need! He also said do NOT change a thing! Do NOT add or subtract! For many of us Prabhupada was not physically present for our initiations. Karandhar Prabhu who was LA New Dwarka Temple President officiated mine. One very important thing he told us "You essentially initiate yourself by chanting 16 rounds a day and following the 4 regs! This is a mere formality though a necessary one like signing an agreement."

Once I had the privilege of witnessing Srila Prabhupada do initiations in New Vrindavan. This must have been recorded as some of his others must have been too. I think the year was 1974. He stressed he was simply like the postman delivering the message. The postman is not pure but the message is. He was doing this on BEHALF of his Guru Maharaja. Then explained how the Parampara works using the mango tree analogy of getting the ripe one from the top of the tree by handing it down from person to person to the one on the ground! He often used the phrase for Guru as the "transparent via medium". In the last books of the CC he goes into depth describing Guru. So WHY is all this nonsense conjuring been going on & persists! Simply follow his instructions! He also told all his disciples to become Guru! Tell everyone to chant this Mahamantra!!! That is Harinam first initiation! What is the Problem!?!?

One last thought, Srila Prabhupada IS still with us!

Akruranatha Dasa: If you read Srila Prabhupada's books, you will see that a devotee is a servant of the servant. It is true that we should try to accept as our spiritual masters very advanced Vaisnavas on the uttama adhikari platform, but he also repeatedly said that his disciples would have their own disciples, who would be his grand-disciples.

[PADA: When they are qualified!]

Akruranatha Dasa: Of course, such disciples should be qualified, and the qualifications are there, that one has to control the six urges, know the conclusions of the Vedas, be fixed in transcendental realization, understand Lord Caitanya's order, Prabhupada's order, to become guru and liberate one's disciples. I do know devotees of that calibre among Srila Prabhupada's disciples. Here in Northern California Vaisesika Dasa is nicely nourishing and training his disciples, and should be given credit for it.

[PADA: Vaisesika is a great friend of Jayadvaita swami, who says gurus in ISKCON may be falling into illicit sex. Again, that means Vaisesika apparently endorses the GBC's illicit sex acharyas program. Whereas, any ten year old child anywhere in the USA knows that deviants are not, were not, could not have been God's successor gurus, while apparently none of these GBC leader folks can understand this point. Badrinrayan das also says -- as long as the GBC gurus keep falling -- they will never have any credibility. Well right, and they do keep falling ... thus there is no credibility.]   

Akruranatha das: To say that Srila Prabhupada, unlike Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur or Gaurakishore Das Babaji or Bhaktivinode Thakur or Narottama Das or any of the previous acaryas (or Lord Caitanya Himself), decided to be a kind of Jesus figure who would initiate devotees after his departure, would be ADDING something that he never wrote about in his books. Instead, he wrote consistently about how a bona fide devotee becomes the disciple and servant of another devotee.

[PADA: OK once again Akruranath implies that debauchees can absorb sins like Jesus? They cannot. Only Jesus or a person like Jesus can absorb the sins of others and act like a diksha guru. Worse, Akruranatha now says the illicit sex acharyas program is some sort of bona fide process. Its not. Serving illicit sex and drugs fools is called serving illusion, its not serving God whatsoever.]

Akruranath das: Yes, it is true that serving the vani is more important than the vapu, that Srila Prabhupada is still present in his books, and is the Founder-Acarya and supreme authority in ISKCON, i.e., that he has imparted his own mood, vision and mission (which as far as I can tell is identical with that f his own Guru Maharaja). But his vision is clearly that generation after generation of disciples will become gurus for the next generation. Service to vapu is also important!

[PADA: OK so you guys have created one generation of illicit sex acharyas, and now some of the second wave are having the same problems, so it seems you folks are saying you want to build a guru empire succession based on the idea that acharyas are in many examples -- debauchees? Where is it stated that we have to offer service and worship to a debauchee guru lineage, or to a group or party that promotes debauchee acharyas, to attain God?]

Akruranath das: Today I am reading Srimad Bhagavatam 7.5, as part of an online private discussion group. Prahlada Maharaja is saying that politics of "enemy" and "friend" is due to delusion. Srila Prabhupada says that pure Vaisnavas like Sri Prahlada, out of their natural humility, see everyone as "Master", understanding them to be one with Krishna although they are always His servants, His parts and parcels.

[PADA: OK however as soon as we said that acharyas are not engaged in illicit sex and drugs, the GBC declared thousands of us be the enemy and kicked us out EN MASSE. Then they started orchestrating beatings and murders of those of us who refused to promote their worship of illicit sex agenda.]

Akruranatha Das: In the Purport to 7.5.11, Srila Prabhupada says that this understanding of the master (ALL living beings are "master"!) begins with understanding of the spiritual master, how he is directly Hari although he is actually a confidential servant of Hari.

[PADA: OK except that your illicit sex gurus are confidential servants of maya and not Krishna.]

Akruranatha Das: The ritvik idea than "no one can be my master but Prabhupada" is antithetical to this principle. It is a neophyte conception. The disciples of Srila Prabhupada who are serving as gurus of the next generation of disciples are one with Srila Prabhupada, because they are serving on his order and are not adding or subtracting anything but teaching exactly what he taught.

[PADA: There is no "order" to make illicit sex gurus found anywhere?]

Akruranatha Das: Whereas those who have created a philosophy that the parampara or disciplic succession ends with Prabhupada are ADDING a concocted system of initiation unheard of in Gaudiya Visnavism, and rejected by all the sadhus such as senior Gaudiya Vaisnavas outside of ISKCON.

PDA: Did Madhva Ramanuya Sampariyas end after thier disappearence ? No....still presenting their teachings into the present age. There were so many deviations that GBC has thankfully presented parallel authorities paper their best action since Srila Prabhupada's Samadhi.

[PADA: Except that there is no such thing as an achaya who is parallel and subordinated to a GBC council. Badrinarayan recently said the acharyas are parallel (working under the control of) his GBC, That would make Badri one of the persons in charge of the acharyas by all his "guru legislation" to control their acharyas that the GBC has concocted. How did Badri become the master of the master? This would be like saying Jesus is under the control of the council of churches. No, Jesus is not parallel to the council, he is always above the council. And now the GBC votes in, votes out, suspends, removes, monitors, and controls the acharyas --- nope the acharyas control the GBC, they have the idea reversed.]   

Akruranatha Dasa As Srila Prabhuada stated: "All my disciples will take the legacy. If you want, you can also take it. Sacrifice everything. I, one, may soon pass away. But they are hundreds, and this movement will increase. It is not that I give an order, 'Here is the next leader.' Anyone who follows the previous leadership is the leader.... All of my disciples are leaders, as much as they follow purely. If you want to follow, you can also lead. But you don't want to follow. Leader means one who is a first class disciple. Evam param parapraptam. One who is following is perfect."

This is the actual, eternal philosophy.

[PADA: What? The GBC says their 11 are gurus and only those subsequently voted in by their 11 are gurus, they never said the legacy goes to ALL the disciples, they said only the 11 and their hand selected friends are gurus, not the whole 5,000 disciples? Nope! They banned, beat, molested and assassinated those among the 5,000 disciples group, and made a guru monopoly of their few elites. Anyway now Akruranath is saying the 5,000 are ALL gurus, ok so that means the GBC kicked out 5,000 gurus, who authorized them to kick out all these gurus, at least they are gurus according to Akruranath? Akruranath is contradicting himself, the legacy goes to all the 5,000 gurus, therefore, we kicked out most of the 5,000 and made only a few elites into gurus?]

Akruranatha Das: To say "Do not change anything" means one must teach exactly the science of Krishna as Srila Prabhupada learned from his guru and as his disciples have learned from him. To promote that"Srila Prabhupada is the only initiating guru for the next 10,000 years" is to change something. It is to teach something that Srila Prabhupada never taught. If that were really part of the science of Krishna consciousness, wouldn't Srila Prabhupada and the previous acryas and the scriptures have said so?

Svayam Rasesvari Shutler One question needs to be asked. Do you really think that Srila Prabhupada wanted the parampara to end with him? If so, find me one quote that says so. I can find so many that say the opposite.

[PADA: The real question is, why is the GBC saying that acharyas are often engaged in illicit sex? Madhu Pandit was interviewed by DNA newspapers recently, and that is what he had to tell the newspapers, we do not worship the GBC's sex dhokha (sex and drugs) gurus. That is the real issue all along, as soon as we say acharyas are not debauchees, we are banned, sued and so forth. Anyway, the sex dhokha parampara is getting smashed all over the place, its going down in any event, just as Srila Prabhupada says all the time, these sex and drugs gurus programs will fade out eventually. Srila Prabhupada was always joking about these sex dhokha guru programs, he said this is the worst deviation and its adherents are all going to the lowest planets.]

BSD: Thanks for posting and thanks for providing info on the history of this situation Akruranatha Dasa .

[PADA: Akruranatha's best friend Jayadvaita says that their acharya's program in ISKCON has "acharyas" who are often found engaged in "illicit sex with men, women and possibly children." Apparently, this is what they consider to be "God's successors"? Bangalore does not agree that God's successors are mostly debauchees, that is why the GBC has spend millions in court against Bangalore, they are trying to legally prove that acharyas are mostly debauchees. That is not the teaching of Krishna, He says the acharyas are as pure as He is, acharyam mam vijnaniyam.]

Akruranatha Dasa  >> That is the real issue all along, as soon as we say acharyas are not debauchees, we are banned, sued and so forth<<

The problem is not that you say bona fide gurus must have sadacara. Everyone says that. The GBC certainly agrees with that point. The problem is that because of your distorted political party mentality, you find it expedient to vilify bona-fide sadhu disciples of Srila Prabhupada. Jayadvaita Swami does not take drugs or have illicit sex, nor does he say that a bona fide guru may do so. You take something he said out of context (he was agreeing that ISKCON had to correct the problem that people who served as "gurus" in ISKCON had actually done such things), and distort it into its opposite: as if he was supporting the idea that it was okay.

So one problem I have with Tim Lee and his ilk is, well, for one thing, they are liars and false propagandists. But for another thing, we are advised repetedly in Srila Prabhupada's books that to villify devotees is a "mad elephant" offense that destroys the devotional creeper and is to be avoided at all costs.

But because of political ideology, these devotees have practically made vilifying devotees into their religion. Their publications, instead of explaining and publicizing Lord Caitanya's instructions, seem preoccupied with "exposing" senior devotees in ISKCON as knaves and villains. They take it for granted that if a devotee is a preacher who has initiated many disciples, he probably is having illicit sex or taking drugs or committing some other sins, and they pass along and embellish rumors (or simply make them up) to promote that they in fact are doing so.

And they do not much mind if it has even a grain of truth in it. They try to stir up animosity against honest devotees such as Jayadvaita Swami, Indradyumna Swami, Radhanatha Swami, make up ugly puns about their spiritual names, and delight in feeling superior to these devotees who are actually doing great service to Srila Prabhupada and his mission.

[PADA: Jayadvaita may engage in whatever, that is not the issue, what is the issue is that Jayadvaita has been promoting a guru lineage that is full of illicit behaviors, so he is promoting a guru lineage that is often engaged in illicit sex, as he himself says, his guru line has been "engaged illicit sex with men, women and children."

So he and Akruranatha promote the worship of that process. Do we find a dog that promotes the worship of illicit sex with men, women and children? Nope, dogs have more moral sense than these guys. Why doesn't Jayadvaita know that illicit sex with men, women and children is not the qualification of God's guru successors?

Why does Jayadvaita say we need to worship his program of God's alleged messiahs, who are out there having illicit sex with men, women and children? Why does Jayadvaita corrupt the view of God's messiahs like this, even to children? Even dogs do not have illicit sex with men, women and children, nor do they promote the worship of that, why doesn't Jayadvaita worship a dog? Simple! He is not advanced enough to worship a dog, so he promoting worshiping less than dogs behavior.

Did we forget to mention because Jayadvaita promotes the worship of illicit sex he caused thousands of children to be molested, and dissenters to be murdered? How many more children and dissenters have to be tossed into Jayadvaita's wood chipper here? Bangalore does not worship less than dog behavior, so they are being sued by the Akruranatha party, because Akruranatha is with the worship of illicit sex with men, women and children acharya's program, but even dogs do not behave this badly, nor do dogs worship this behavior. That means Akruranatha is not advanced enough to worship a dog.

Dogs are not engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children, nor do they worship same, Akruranatha's messiah / acharyas are engaged in these odious things, and Jayadvaita is the cheer leader of the worship of this illicit sex acharyas programs. Sulochana said that, these people are not advanced enough to worship a dog. And that is why their program killed him. And LOKANATHA SWAMI is another person who promotes the worship of illlcit sex acharyas program, we need to worship his homosexual messiahs program to go to God, he is another pervert of the worst order. What kind of sick fools and odious rascals tell the public they have to worship an illicit sex with men, women and children guru line to attain God?]

Akruranatha Dasa: Neither I, nor the GBC, nor Jayadvaita Swami, nor Lokanatha Swami, are promoting the worship of nondevotees or sinful, impious people as gurus.

The fact that PADA says we do just shows how he throws wild, untrue allegations around. I usually make it a point not to argue with such people, but I have said a few hings here just in case some innocent people are actually reading and looking for answers.

[PADA: No, I am not throwing any wild things around, Jayadvaita swami is the person who says, in writing, that the guru program he (and Akruranath) promotes contains illicit sex with men, women and children. He is the one who says that in a legal written document, not me! And the result of Jayadvaita's promoting his (and Akruranatha's) illicit sex with men, women and children gurus program, has been -- that thousands of children were molested and dissenters were killed.

This is all well known and legally and media established. Jayadvaita and Akruranatha are preaching to the public (i.e. also to small children) that they need to worship their illicit sex with men, women and children guru line to attain God, this is all factual and we all know it and there is plenty of proof. I have thousands of pages of proof on my web sites, including court testimonies and etc., read it. Yet we do not need that, all we have to do is read Jayadvaita's own words, his guru line contains illicit sex with men, women and children, that is the guru line he (and Akruranath) has been promoting, and they are still promoting.

And we are getting more and more readers to our blog from Russia, Poland, Ukraine, Moldava, China, etc. At least more and more of these people are catching up to speed. And I can see that the pages are being translated into many Russian bloc languages. And harekrsna org still gets 29,000 viewers in January, no doubt, many from Russia bloc and so on. We got the sex dhokha messiahs on the run in the West, now we have to go East towards Russian bloc, and in India the DNA newspapers recently were quoting that the GBC are a sex dhokha (sex and drugs) guru line.

We are gradually getting them in many places. Yep, sex and drugs, that is what I said in 1979, we cannot worship sex and drugs, and the gang of four gurus kicked me out. One of those gurus later fell down with a woman and had his head chopped off -- while being stabbed 72 times; Another had to leave due to connection to Sulochana murder, and he fell down with a woman and he became a crummy New York Real Estate agent who could not make much success; Another was arrested for counterfeit money and he was apparently raped in jail; Another had a stroke because he ate like forty seven hogs and he became fatter than a Boeing 747, so he had a stroke and he cannot hardly move anymore, and he is the leader of the Bangalore lawsuit, fine karma he is getting for doing that. Fine karma they all got, as for head chopped off pada, the GBC could have saved him if they had removed him when I said so, but they pushed him back into the guru seat, because folks like Jayadvaita have made lusty hound dogs being worshiped as good as God. Even dogs do not worship illicit sex, they are way more advanced than Jayadvaita's program will probably ever be, ever.]

Patyatosa Dasa: Akruranatha Prabhu, no one has ever been able to defeat <http://rtvik.com/>.
Rtvik - Proof Positive in One Short Web Page
Srila Prabhupada's prescription for all future initiations within ISKCON: 'Ritvik henceforward.'
RTVIK.COM. Akruranatha Prabhu, you are trying to create a straw-man argument (a logical fallacy) when you say that the Ritviks say, "none of his disciples could ever become bona fide gurus in disciplic succession."

PADA: Yep!

Pratyatosa Dasa Srila Prabhupada's July 9, 1977 letter, to all members of the GBC and to all temple presidents, does not prohibit his disciples from following his perfect example, starting their own institutions and becoming the gurus of those institutions. Srila Prabhupada made it perfectly clear that he does not want more than one diksa guru within ISKCON because, otherwise, it "creates factions."

[PADA: A rtivik is a qualified brahmana, so they are not qualified to be actually bona fide ritviks either.]

Pratyatosa Dasa IMHO, it's a no-win situation for ISKCON Mumbai because if they lose, they lose, and if they "win," they also lose because the resultant decline of ISKCON Bangalore will demonstrate to the entire world that Srila Prabhupada has a better idea: "ritvik henceforward!"

[PADA: Basically over the years we have reported all sorts of deteriorated conditions at various ISKCON temples, including more than a few having health and safety code violations, bad plumbing, a heater that started on fire leaving the devotees freezing in -20 temps, exposed wires near a sink, not enough money for a washing machine etc. That does not mention a toilet that reportedly leaked for 10 years causing dry rot, and even worse reports of rats, mice, cock roaches, bed bugs, rats passing stools on the deities at night, and so forth.

That does not include temples that were simply closed due to lack of manpower, and the cows that were sent to slaughter because there was no funds to maintain them (Prithu went to save them at the cattle auction but they were gone already). And so forth. So this is the plan of the GBC really, to get rid of the people keeping Krishna in good condition, and remove the temple residents so the GBC can let these temples sink into ill repair, and maybe close some more of them as they have done elsewhere.

Even Lokanatha swami said in 1988 the temples are ghost towns. Now the GBC has found a temple with a few people who are not allowing in the rats, bed bugs, cock roaches and so forth -- and the GBC finds that intolerable. Krishna is being taken care of nicely, that is horrible, where are the rats, mice, bed bugs, cock roaches, leaking toilets, no plumbing, exposed wires, ghost town buildings? This nice pooja must be stopped! Yep, that is why the GBC are spending millions suing Bangalore, they are doing nice pooja there and this is horrible for these GBC folks! As one devotee summed it up, the GBC wants mansions for their lawyers and ghettos for Krishna.]

Gauridasa Pandita HariboL Prabhu's, dandavats! AGTSP! Glad to see the intelligentsia at work here! Hope the GBC will discuss this most important issue again. It's been since 1990 since they openly discussed it! Here's my report meant mainly for them: 'On My Behalf'
http://www.harekrsna.de/reform/e_pr_omb.htm

On My Behalf - Srila Prabhupada's Initiation System for ISKCON
Informationsportal zur Philosophie und den Lehren...
HAREKRSNA.DE|BY BHAKTA FRANK