SRILA PRABHUPADA SIDDHANTA: If you believe that Srila Prabhupada authorized the present day GBC Iskcon guru system, then you are saying that Prabhupad is directly responsible for all deviant behavior in the past, present and future of this movement. When a dog bites somebody on the street, the master is held accountable! The disciples of the spiritual master are invaribly condemned, critized and minimized and the guru is seen as just another conditioned soul because of apparently making such a conditioned mistake. What a legacy you all left His Divine Grace!!???
Nash David Selvester -- Gauridas - when you present conversations as shastra, you have to accept what goes with something be considered shastra. If I disagree on shastra, the course of action is to present the disagreement to Sadhu or Guru. We both accept Srila Prabhupada as Sadhu AND Guru, but how can we pose a question to Srila Prabhupada? Perhaps if I provide a conversation of my own, this time between Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj and one of His god-brothers who is a Prabhupada disciple.
http://www.bvml.org/SGGM/als.html Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj exhibited the symptoms of Bhava as described in shastra in 1979 - I have spoken personally to an eyewitness who confirms that Homeopathic and Ayurvedic doctors, as well as Krsna Das Babaji Maharaj, confirmed Him to be in Bhava.
** Nash David Selvester I think that the conception of ritvikism underlies a misconception that if you do not accept the ritvik system, then you do not love Srila Prabhupada. This is simply incorrect, and if you ask of my god-brothers and god-sisters I'm confident they will all agree that their understanding and love for Srila Prabhupada grew and grows under the guidance of our Gurudeva and His sannyasis.
** Nash David Selvester Yuga - LOL I cannot believe you actually think that because ISKCON has a better structured material managament, that they are "eons" ahead of anything out there. The only difference with the Gaudiya Matha issues and ISKCON is that, in the Gaudiya Matha we are publicizing it and ensuring that the people trying to take control against our Guru's instructions don't - whereas in ISKCON, nobody put up a fight against the rascal's that poisoned Prabhupada and raped, abused and murdered any devotee who stood in their way.
How can you even defend an organization that rubber stamps Guru's? The biggest downfall for ISKCON is that they put themselves directly in the center of the Guru process, when it has NOTHING to do with an organization and is a PERSONAL relationship between three people only - the person deciding to initiate, said person's spiritual master, and the person deciding to take initiation. To criticize the Gaudiya Math after ISKCON's history is a ludicrous statement, and shows an improper understanding of ISKCON's darker history.
** PADA: Thanks Martin, Yes, if a ritvik or anyone else becomes pure, certainly people will benefit from his association. Of course the system set up by Srila Prabhupada was for ALL of his disciples to preach, sort of grass roots level like ALL the ...Christians "preach or witness" on behalf of Jesus, and they ALL act as living guides for the mass of people. What happened in ISKCON was that they said we need living people to preach, so the kicked out 10,000 living people who were doing all the preaching and they made what Lokanatha swami said was "skeleton crew" -- where are all the devotees, that is what he wrote in 1988. So if your idea is you need living preachers, and you kick out all the living preachers, you have what they have, empty buildings. ys pd
** GHD: Thanks for sharing this. Its kind of a paradox... If one is too attached to their philosopical position as absolute for everyone, this predudice blinds one to see how krishna is working with various kinds of mentalities of his devotees and attracting them to various teachings, or even paths of vaishnavism. Its tricky. One has to honor the path of vaishnavism that one is attracted to and honor others who are inspired to follow another way as you pointed out with the ritviks who's faith in Srila Prabhupada was restored by having faith in his order.
This goes both ways. It is not proper to tell a devotee who is inspired by a certain guru to follow another path that one may believe in. It is also not effective to tell a ritvik to follow the living Guru system because one personally believes in it. A favorable mood for preaching is One can campaign for ones own path like holding out a lamp in the darkness for those who are meant to see it can.
** Gauridasa Pandita Dasa @Nash ~ what Srila Prabhupada says IS Sastra! We need all three; Guru, Sastra And Sadhu ~ We can't understand the Sastra without the Guru. Srila Prabhupada's July 9th letter spells it all out. To speak nicely and properly we need to read and hear nicely and properly. Please read all the facts before you continue for your own benefit ~ On My Behalf, the facts without the faultfinding ~
** PADA: No one has ever answered my original question, if we need "living people" to do the "living preaching," why were 10,000 "living people" kicked out the door of ISKCON, and according to Lokanatha swami, the temples were turned into empty shel...ls and skeletonized ghost towns? Lokanatha wrote, "in many temples there are more deities than devotees," so why are we saying we need living people, while kicking all the live people out? And why has no one ever answered this in 35 years? ys pd
** Gauridasa Pandita Dasa: While you are at it please read Chapter 23 of the Krsna Book ~ it's about the ritvik priests performing sacrifices, but they were not pure devotees with pure intentions, they wanted to go to the heavenly planets, but their wives were pure devotees and got Krsna's Blessings and Darshan in the forest. We need to understand the all inclusive nature of Krsna Consciousness. Advocating the Vedic ritvik sacrificial system doesn't mean we are against any other guru's. One who knows the science of KC can be a guru. The devil is in the details. Knowledge will destroy the devil and we will come to the proper conclusion and become fixed up at the feet of Srila Prabhupada, also honoring all devotees.
** Martin A. Raghavendu Lewis >>> No one has ever answered my original question, if we need "living people" to do the "living preaching," why were 10,000 "living people" kicked out the door of ISKCON <<<Because those leader were asuric. But I had run ins with some of the original gurus and some other leaders before Nov. '77 and some of them were pretty asuric even in those days. That's why I was shocked when I heard that they were the 11 Acaryas. It always confused and I never really accepted it. But in retrospect I wish that I could have had the association of our godbrother Sripad Goura Govinda Maharaja. I don't think that he was contaminated by being elected by the GBC. He later opposed them but he definitely was not Rtvik.
** PADA: Dear Martin, Gaura Govinda maharaja is the person who wrote a paper for the GBC in 1988, basically saying gurus become demons (asuras). He was supporting them, now you say he was supporting demons? OK agreed. GGM constantly supported the id...ea that acharyas deviate into illicit sex and co-authored a number of position papers for the GBC saying that gurus deviate. He also said we could not understand things from Srila Prabhupada's audio tapes, because when we found out that GGM had been voted in as guru at Bhavananda's recoronation, that was not found in the tapes and teachings of Prabhupada, so GGM tried to discredit the tapes and teachings of Prabhupada. In sum, GGM thinks that acharyas (people like Jesus) are out of control debauchees. GGM also wrote a paper saying that the soul originates in brahman and not Krishna loka, and he said Srila Prabhupada was just preaching to the hippies so that is why he said we originated in Krishna lila. GGM also stood up to defend keeping Tamal in 1993, when even the other GBC wanted to boot Tamal out. GGM told me personally that Kali Yuga has entered the highest places of ISKCON, but that he still has to "cooperate, tolerate and work with them" (Kali Yuga). Yes, GGM said that anyone who gets voted in as guru is a fool, because gurus are not voted in, then he was voted in himself. Anyway, here is a summary of Gaura Govinda Maharaja: http://youtu.be/YPJkh2uiOw0
** Yuga Avatar Das Nash David Selvester and freinds ,i offer this as a humble reminder.....http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/05-11/editorials7272.htm
** Yuga Avatar Das -- The Narayana Maharaja camp's Madhava Maharaja is exhibiting disturbing commanding and controlling behavior within several of our affiliated Maths in India. He has been reported to be Interrupting hare katah speakers, taking an inordinate amount of time speaking, ordering math managers to do this or do that in the physical operation of the math, and taking money from them. These are a few of the disconcerting activities reported. Additionally we have witnessed flippant and disrespectful emails sent to devotees from both Madhava Maharaja and Brajanath Prabhu indicative of further unwarranted delusions of "entitlement to power" on their part. Generally these behaviors would not be noteworthy, but are particularly disturbing in our devotee community especially in light of financial abuses noted below.
** PADA: Right, Yuga's people are suing us because we do not worship his friends who have been preaching that acharyas and messiahs are: illicit sex with men, women and children, and these types of people are "meant ot be messiahs." Even dogs do not... engage in / worship illicit sex with men, women and children, clearly Yuga is not advanced enough to be on this platform. Worse, Yugas's program forced thousands of children to worship their homosexual pedophile messiahs, and many of them were molested as a result so we had to sue Yuga's messiahs for $400m, and in court Yugas' messiahs plead "no contest." As for Narayana Maharaja, he was the biggest cheer leader of Tamal and the molester messiah's project. ys pd
** Jayasri Radha: I dont even bother with yuga.. he's not worth it.I dont know why everyone doesnt just block him.. he makes no sense talks in circles .. I guess some people enjoy playing his games. I am happy I cant see his nonsense comments. Can someone answer me why they kicked out Adri Dharn from the IRM.. He is the first devotee I ever met.. And he alone warned me of the things in ISKCON.. What did he do that was so bad that they kicked him off? Hare Krishna!
** Rathangapani Dasa Buchert: They kicked him out because he was warning people. To stay in iskcon one has to ignore all the bad stuff, and never talk about it.
** Gauridasa Pandita Dasa The IRM didn't kick Adri out! He's still active behind the scenes ~ it's trouble with the ISKCON devotees have been causing that made Adri Dharan go underground for now ~ rest assured he is a good man, great devotee on an exile which will e...nd in due course of time ~ 2012 is supposed to be good for reform in ISKCON Astrologically according to Nalini Kanta Prabhu, the good Vedic Astrologer and Prabhupadanuga \o/ hold tight, our future is bright! The Golden Age of Lord Chaitanya is destined to increase in due course. Sri Sri Guru & Gouranga Ki Jaya! \o/
** Yuga Avatar Das: Obviously having just watched the movie ''gasland'' and seeing the immense damage being performed in the USA from fracturing the earth for cng gases drilling obviously explains why our poor american freinds seem dellusional many times on these threads! Do your tap fawcetts light up like on the movies ....? MAYBE THAT WOULD EXPLAIN THE RITVIK PERVERSIONS!
** PADA: "Gasland" is what is happening in the Apalachian mountains (New Vrndavana West Vriginia), where Kirtanananda, Radhanatha, Umapati and all of Yuga's friends are, so he is right, Yuga has caused Gasland, I agree. ys pd
** Gauridasa Pandita Dasa: Here Yuga goes again being affected by Kali ~ it's Kali Yuga! Calling Srila Prabhupada's Ritvik initiation system a perversion is offensive to Srila Prabhupada. I had to delete him months ago for this nonsense and here he goes again after I ... gave him A second chance. We should not listen to his offensive nonsense ~ he wouldn't know the Truth if he saw or heard it because he has and still can't see it! Friends it's a waste of time and counter productive to keep him as a friend ~ let him go!
** PADA: Yuga just said that he endorses the New Vrndavan temple's program of selling gas rights to the karmis, so the temple water will be befouled with gas. Why does Yuga support NV managers and their gas fracking programs? ys pd
** Martin A. Raghavendu Lewis They got more fracking programs than you can shake a stick at! I don't know what the frack is going on with either Tim or Yuga?
** PADA: Yuga wants us to worship the people who asked the New Vrndavana residents to sign over property / mineral / drilling rights to the gas fracking program (it puts methane and drano-like chemicals into your drinking water), because Yuga apparently likes polluted drinking water for the devotees and cows. Why does Yuga support people who want to poison the drinking water of the devotees? ys pd
** Martin A. Raghavendu Lewis: Tim, you are real bull dog or maybe a pit bull on steroids when it comes to argument. You've got this particular style of ad hominem attack that expertly mixes the attack itself balanced with a dose of guilt tripping. And you've honed it down over the years until it is razor sharp. The problem is tarko pratisthanat. The Absolute Truth cannot be attained by argument.
** PADA: Dear Martin, the New Vrndavana authorities and people like Malati dd told the local devotees to sign off on the gas fracking program so the temple could make money by selling the gas rights, and Yuga worships these leaders, this is not a pe...rsonal attack, its a fact. This is the truth, the absolute truth because it is documented by my friends who live nearby, and by the machinery being used in the NV area, and this is all in the newspapers from Moundsville etc. You are a real bull dog here because as soon as we say this gas fracking is wrong for our ISKCON devotee communities, you defend the gas fracker project and attack me. I am simply agreeing with Yuga, it makes the ground water toxic. I am not a bull dog, I simply do not think devotees and the NV cows should drink poisoned water. Allowing this contamination on an ISKCON property is not authorized, that's all, I am surprised you are for selling our souls to the gas frackers. Is there nothing else more important than money in this world to you folks? ys pd
** Martin A. Raghavendu Lewis >>> you defend the gas fracker project<<< What? As far as I am concerned all those Frackers can go to Fracking Hell!!!
** PADA: Dear Martin, you said my complaint about Yuga's gas fracking program was bull dog ad hominem attack, that means you are (a) an apologist for and (b) a defender of -- Yuga's gas fracking program. ys pd
PS Adridharana dasa was part of the IRM originally. In 1997, I asked him if he was in the room in 1977 when Srila Prabhupada complained of being poisoned, and he said he was, and moreover he was "alarmed" by the poison complaint. Of course this begs the question why he covered it up and he supported the GBC gurus for such a long time? In 1999, Adri changed his whole story and he began saying I was a fool for forwarding the complaint, he dendied saying he had been alarmed, and he said that he had every right to hide and cover up for the issue for 20 years, and he was even saying: there was no poison complaint, sort of like when Jesus said "you will deny me before the cock crows twice" from the Bible, and apparently Adri's idea was that Srila Prabhupada was debiliated and confused when he made these complaints. As a result of his duplicity on this issue, by Krishna's arrangement Adri was forced into exile. We do not want these blatant apologists and cover ups to be out there harassing us, and Krishna stopped his harassing us. And we are getting many new people to agree with this issue, here is merely one example: http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2011/05/poison-issue-is-factual-iskcon-by.html [ jaya Srila Prabhupada! ys pd ]
Nash David Selvester -- Gauridas - when you present conversations as shastra, you have to accept what goes with something be considered shastra. If I disagree on shastra, the course of action is to present the disagreement to Sadhu or Guru. We both accept Srila Prabhupada as Sadhu AND Guru, but how can we pose a question to Srila Prabhupada? Perhaps if I provide a conversation of my own, this time between Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj and one of His god-brothers who is a Prabhupada disciple.
http://www.bvml.org/SGGM/als.html Srila Gour Govinda Maharaj exhibited the symptoms of Bhava as described in shastra in 1979 - I have spoken personally to an eyewitness who confirms that Homeopathic and Ayurvedic doctors, as well as Krsna Das Babaji Maharaj, confirmed Him to be in Bhava.
** Nash David Selvester I think that the conception of ritvikism underlies a misconception that if you do not accept the ritvik system, then you do not love Srila Prabhupada. This is simply incorrect, and if you ask of my god-brothers and god-sisters I'm confident they will all agree that their understanding and love for Srila Prabhupada grew and grows under the guidance of our Gurudeva and His sannyasis.
** Nash David Selvester Yuga - LOL I cannot believe you actually think that because ISKCON has a better structured material managament, that they are "eons" ahead of anything out there. The only difference with the Gaudiya Matha issues and ISKCON is that, in the Gaudiya Matha we are publicizing it and ensuring that the people trying to take control against our Guru's instructions don't - whereas in ISKCON, nobody put up a fight against the rascal's that poisoned Prabhupada and raped, abused and murdered any devotee who stood in their way.
How can you even defend an organization that rubber stamps Guru's? The biggest downfall for ISKCON is that they put themselves directly in the center of the Guru process, when it has NOTHING to do with an organization and is a PERSONAL relationship between three people only - the person deciding to initiate, said person's spiritual master, and the person deciding to take initiation. To criticize the Gaudiya Math after ISKCON's history is a ludicrous statement, and shows an improper understanding of ISKCON's darker history.
** PADA: Thanks Martin, Yes, if a ritvik or anyone else becomes pure, certainly people will benefit from his association. Of course the system set up by Srila Prabhupada was for ALL of his disciples to preach, sort of grass roots level like ALL the ...Christians "preach or witness" on behalf of Jesus, and they ALL act as living guides for the mass of people. What happened in ISKCON was that they said we need living people to preach, so the kicked out 10,000 living people who were doing all the preaching and they made what Lokanatha swami said was "skeleton crew" -- where are all the devotees, that is what he wrote in 1988. So if your idea is you need living preachers, and you kick out all the living preachers, you have what they have, empty buildings. ys pd
** GHD: Thanks for sharing this. Its kind of a paradox... If one is too attached to their philosopical position as absolute for everyone, this predudice blinds one to see how krishna is working with various kinds of mentalities of his devotees and attracting them to various teachings, or even paths of vaishnavism. Its tricky. One has to honor the path of vaishnavism that one is attracted to and honor others who are inspired to follow another way as you pointed out with the ritviks who's faith in Srila Prabhupada was restored by having faith in his order.
This goes both ways. It is not proper to tell a devotee who is inspired by a certain guru to follow another path that one may believe in. It is also not effective to tell a ritvik to follow the living Guru system because one personally believes in it. A favorable mood for preaching is One can campaign for ones own path like holding out a lamp in the darkness for those who are meant to see it can.
** Gauridasa Pandita Dasa @Nash ~ what Srila Prabhupada says IS Sastra! We need all three; Guru, Sastra And Sadhu ~ We can't understand the Sastra without the Guru. Srila Prabhupada's July 9th letter spells it all out. To speak nicely and properly we need to read and hear nicely and properly. Please read all the facts before you continue for your own benefit ~ On My Behalf, the facts without the faultfinding ~
** PADA: No one has ever answered my original question, if we need "living people" to do the "living preaching," why were 10,000 "living people" kicked out the door of ISKCON, and according to Lokanatha swami, the temples were turned into empty shel...ls and skeletonized ghost towns? Lokanatha wrote, "in many temples there are more deities than devotees," so why are we saying we need living people, while kicking all the live people out? And why has no one ever answered this in 35 years? ys pd
** Gauridasa Pandita Dasa: While you are at it please read Chapter 23 of the Krsna Book ~ it's about the ritvik priests performing sacrifices, but they were not pure devotees with pure intentions, they wanted to go to the heavenly planets, but their wives were pure devotees and got Krsna's Blessings and Darshan in the forest. We need to understand the all inclusive nature of Krsna Consciousness. Advocating the Vedic ritvik sacrificial system doesn't mean we are against any other guru's. One who knows the science of KC can be a guru. The devil is in the details. Knowledge will destroy the devil and we will come to the proper conclusion and become fixed up at the feet of Srila Prabhupada, also honoring all devotees.
** Martin A. Raghavendu Lewis >>> No one has ever answered my original question, if we need "living people" to do the "living preaching," why were 10,000 "living people" kicked out the door of ISKCON <<<Because those leader were asuric. But I had run ins with some of the original gurus and some other leaders before Nov. '77 and some of them were pretty asuric even in those days. That's why I was shocked when I heard that they were the 11 Acaryas. It always confused and I never really accepted it. But in retrospect I wish that I could have had the association of our godbrother Sripad Goura Govinda Maharaja. I don't think that he was contaminated by being elected by the GBC. He later opposed them but he definitely was not Rtvik.
** PADA: Dear Martin, Gaura Govinda maharaja is the person who wrote a paper for the GBC in 1988, basically saying gurus become demons (asuras). He was supporting them, now you say he was supporting demons? OK agreed. GGM constantly supported the id...ea that acharyas deviate into illicit sex and co-authored a number of position papers for the GBC saying that gurus deviate. He also said we could not understand things from Srila Prabhupada's audio tapes, because when we found out that GGM had been voted in as guru at Bhavananda's recoronation, that was not found in the tapes and teachings of Prabhupada, so GGM tried to discredit the tapes and teachings of Prabhupada. In sum, GGM thinks that acharyas (people like Jesus) are out of control debauchees. GGM also wrote a paper saying that the soul originates in brahman and not Krishna loka, and he said Srila Prabhupada was just preaching to the hippies so that is why he said we originated in Krishna lila. GGM also stood up to defend keeping Tamal in 1993, when even the other GBC wanted to boot Tamal out. GGM told me personally that Kali Yuga has entered the highest places of ISKCON, but that he still has to "cooperate, tolerate and work with them" (Kali Yuga). Yes, GGM said that anyone who gets voted in as guru is a fool, because gurus are not voted in, then he was voted in himself. Anyway, here is a summary of Gaura Govinda Maharaja: http://youtu.be/YPJkh2uiOw0
** Yuga Avatar Das Nash David Selvester and freinds ,i offer this as a humble reminder.....http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/05-11/editorials7272.htm
** Yuga Avatar Das -- The Narayana Maharaja camp's Madhava Maharaja is exhibiting disturbing commanding and controlling behavior within several of our affiliated Maths in India. He has been reported to be Interrupting hare katah speakers, taking an inordinate amount of time speaking, ordering math managers to do this or do that in the physical operation of the math, and taking money from them. These are a few of the disconcerting activities reported. Additionally we have witnessed flippant and disrespectful emails sent to devotees from both Madhava Maharaja and Brajanath Prabhu indicative of further unwarranted delusions of "entitlement to power" on their part. Generally these behaviors would not be noteworthy, but are particularly disturbing in our devotee community especially in light of financial abuses noted below.
** PADA: Right, Yuga's people are suing us because we do not worship his friends who have been preaching that acharyas and messiahs are: illicit sex with men, women and children, and these types of people are "meant ot be messiahs." Even dogs do not... engage in / worship illicit sex with men, women and children, clearly Yuga is not advanced enough to be on this platform. Worse, Yugas's program forced thousands of children to worship their homosexual pedophile messiahs, and many of them were molested as a result so we had to sue Yuga's messiahs for $400m, and in court Yugas' messiahs plead "no contest." As for Narayana Maharaja, he was the biggest cheer leader of Tamal and the molester messiah's project. ys pd
** Jayasri Radha: I dont even bother with yuga.. he's not worth it.I dont know why everyone doesnt just block him.. he makes no sense talks in circles .. I guess some people enjoy playing his games. I am happy I cant see his nonsense comments. Can someone answer me why they kicked out Adri Dharn from the IRM.. He is the first devotee I ever met.. And he alone warned me of the things in ISKCON.. What did he do that was so bad that they kicked him off? Hare Krishna!
** Rathangapani Dasa Buchert: They kicked him out because he was warning people. To stay in iskcon one has to ignore all the bad stuff, and never talk about it.
** Gauridasa Pandita Dasa The IRM didn't kick Adri out! He's still active behind the scenes ~ it's trouble with the ISKCON devotees have been causing that made Adri Dharan go underground for now ~ rest assured he is a good man, great devotee on an exile which will e...nd in due course of time ~ 2012 is supposed to be good for reform in ISKCON Astrologically according to Nalini Kanta Prabhu, the good Vedic Astrologer and Prabhupadanuga \o/ hold tight, our future is bright! The Golden Age of Lord Chaitanya is destined to increase in due course. Sri Sri Guru & Gouranga Ki Jaya! \o/
** Yuga Avatar Das: Obviously having just watched the movie ''gasland'' and seeing the immense damage being performed in the USA from fracturing the earth for cng gases drilling obviously explains why our poor american freinds seem dellusional many times on these threads! Do your tap fawcetts light up like on the movies ....? MAYBE THAT WOULD EXPLAIN THE RITVIK PERVERSIONS!
** PADA: "Gasland" is what is happening in the Apalachian mountains (New Vrndavana West Vriginia), where Kirtanananda, Radhanatha, Umapati and all of Yuga's friends are, so he is right, Yuga has caused Gasland, I agree. ys pd
** Gauridasa Pandita Dasa: Here Yuga goes again being affected by Kali ~ it's Kali Yuga! Calling Srila Prabhupada's Ritvik initiation system a perversion is offensive to Srila Prabhupada. I had to delete him months ago for this nonsense and here he goes again after I ... gave him A second chance. We should not listen to his offensive nonsense ~ he wouldn't know the Truth if he saw or heard it because he has and still can't see it! Friends it's a waste of time and counter productive to keep him as a friend ~ let him go!
** PADA: Yuga just said that he endorses the New Vrndavan temple's program of selling gas rights to the karmis, so the temple water will be befouled with gas. Why does Yuga support NV managers and their gas fracking programs? ys pd
** Martin A. Raghavendu Lewis They got more fracking programs than you can shake a stick at! I don't know what the frack is going on with either Tim or Yuga?
** PADA: Yuga wants us to worship the people who asked the New Vrndavana residents to sign over property / mineral / drilling rights to the gas fracking program (it puts methane and drano-like chemicals into your drinking water), because Yuga apparently likes polluted drinking water for the devotees and cows. Why does Yuga support people who want to poison the drinking water of the devotees? ys pd
** Martin A. Raghavendu Lewis: Tim, you are real bull dog or maybe a pit bull on steroids when it comes to argument. You've got this particular style of ad hominem attack that expertly mixes the attack itself balanced with a dose of guilt tripping. And you've honed it down over the years until it is razor sharp. The problem is tarko pratisthanat. The Absolute Truth cannot be attained by argument.
** PADA: Dear Martin, the New Vrndavana authorities and people like Malati dd told the local devotees to sign off on the gas fracking program so the temple could make money by selling the gas rights, and Yuga worships these leaders, this is not a pe...rsonal attack, its a fact. This is the truth, the absolute truth because it is documented by my friends who live nearby, and by the machinery being used in the NV area, and this is all in the newspapers from Moundsville etc. You are a real bull dog here because as soon as we say this gas fracking is wrong for our ISKCON devotee communities, you defend the gas fracker project and attack me. I am simply agreeing with Yuga, it makes the ground water toxic. I am not a bull dog, I simply do not think devotees and the NV cows should drink poisoned water. Allowing this contamination on an ISKCON property is not authorized, that's all, I am surprised you are for selling our souls to the gas frackers. Is there nothing else more important than money in this world to you folks? ys pd
** Martin A. Raghavendu Lewis >>> you defend the gas fracker project<<< What? As far as I am concerned all those Frackers can go to Fracking Hell!!!
** PADA: Dear Martin, you said my complaint about Yuga's gas fracking program was bull dog ad hominem attack, that means you are (a) an apologist for and (b) a defender of -- Yuga's gas fracking program. ys pd
PS Adridharana dasa was part of the IRM originally. In 1997, I asked him if he was in the room in 1977 when Srila Prabhupada complained of being poisoned, and he said he was, and moreover he was "alarmed" by the poison complaint. Of course this begs the question why he covered it up and he supported the GBC gurus for such a long time? In 1999, Adri changed his whole story and he began saying I was a fool for forwarding the complaint, he dendied saying he had been alarmed, and he said that he had every right to hide and cover up for the issue for 20 years, and he was even saying: there was no poison complaint, sort of like when Jesus said "you will deny me before the cock crows twice" from the Bible, and apparently Adri's idea was that Srila Prabhupada was debiliated and confused when he made these complaints. As a result of his duplicity on this issue, by Krishna's arrangement Adri was forced into exile. We do not want these blatant apologists and cover ups to be out there harassing us, and Krishna stopped his harassing us. And we are getting many new people to agree with this issue, here is merely one example: http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2011/05/poison-issue-is-factual-iskcon-by.html [ jaya Srila Prabhupada! ys pd ]
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