Kailash / Torben / E. Johansen / Hanuman Croatia "not sincere"? (JD and PADA)

PADA: (Summary of a phone call). JD says he has been a little baffled, and he wanted to know how the Kailash Chandra / Eric Johansen / Hanuman Croatia / Torben Nielsen program works in actual practice? They say: "The neophytes will attract spiritual guidance -- according to their level of sincerity -- and therefore if they are truly sincere -- they will attract a living pure devotee to come and associate with them." OK sign me up! Let us get sincere and attract the association of a pure devotee!

JD asks, why haven't these people attracted their OWN pure devotee for their OWN association in all this time? What is their actual association level? 

I said, for the past few decades Kailash Chandra has only attracted the association of his neighbors -- i.e. the meat eating folks. He lives almost always with the beef steaks society exclusively, and he shuns the association of actually ANY Vaishnava groups, including GBC, Gaudiya Matha, Ritviks, or any other Vaishnavas. Kailash says any sincere person will find a living guru, but he has found zero himself. 

What has Kailash and his followers found instead? Yep, the beef steaks association. It is a bluff, he has no "living guru" and he never will, neither do his followers have a living guru. It is all bluff. They are living with the beef steak society while claiming that lifestyle is going to attract a pure devotee to come to them. 

Srila Prabhupada never said that -- he said the opposite -- if we want to attract Krishna we have to associate with the Vaishnavas and promote the worship of the pure Vaishnava. He never said we should encourage people to avoid the Vaishnavas, and take shelter of the beef steaks society, and claim that is the method to attract pure devotees to come to us. It isn't. 

JD asks, if he will only attract the association of the meat eaters, and he shuns the Vaishnavas, does that not mean -- his level of sincerity is only at the meat eater association level? And since he shuns the general Vaishnavas, and lives basically alone with the meat eating people, does that not prove -- he is not even sincere enough to associate with any levels of Vaishnavas, even us neophytes, never mind find a pure one to be with? And why would he say -- the sincere person will find only the association of the meat eaters, and not the Vaishnavas? 

I said, according to his own idea, he is not even sincere enough to find a general kanistha devotee to associate with, never mind an uttama devotee, so yes, he lives alone in the middle of nowhere with the meat eating sector. And he thinks because he is only attracting the meat eater sector's association, that makes him "sincere." This has nothing to do with anything that Krishna teaches. Kailash is contrary to Krishna's teachings, Krishna says we should seek out Vaishnavas and avoid the meat eaters, Kailash has the whole process upside down. He seeks out the meat eaters and avoids the Vaishnavas, and so do his followers -- for the most part. He is training people to avoid devotees and surround themselves with the beef steaks society instead.  

JD asks, what "Vaishnava association" does he promote? 

I said, none actually. Neither does he advertise any Vaishnava programs, Vaishnava original book sites, or any other Vaishnava activities -- that we know of. He simply does not even try to lead others to the Vaishnava process. 

Anyone who watches his videos sees -- he has no deity photos, no photos of Srila Prabhupada, no devotional programs, no devotional activities, nor does he promote any etc. At least the GBC tries to insert in a photo of Krishna or Srila Prabhupada from time to time, Kailash never does. He shows us no devotees, no photos of Krishna, no programs, no preaching, no deity process, no book distribution, not even advertising our original book sites, no nothing. 

He is thus -- almost exclusively -- associated with the meat eating sector, and no Vaishnava programs / groups at all. So according to Kailash, his own level of sincerity is -- he can only attract the association of the meat eating class, because he is not sincere enough (according to his own idea) to attract higher levels of association. Worse, he is basically saying a sincere person will be exclusively associated with -- the meat eaters. What! 

Thus according to himself, he is not sincere enough, so he cannot attract any more pure association, or even any lesser pure kanistha Vaishnava association. Again let us be clear here, he lives with the meat eaters pretty much full time all the time, and meanwhile he shuns the Vaishnava's association. That means according to his own idea, he is not sincere enough to attract ANY FORM of higher association, or even lesser class Vaishnava association. 

Yep, all  that -- according to -- himself. 

In sum, according to Kailash, his level of sincerity only warrants him to attract the meat eaters class of persons as his main / almost exclusive association. So we agree with Kailash, a person attracts others according to their sincerity, and the Kailash level of sincerity only allows him to attract the association of the meat eater class. 

He is not elevated enough to attract any more pure association, or even any regulated devotee association, according to his own idea. A person will associate with his level of sincerity, and that means his level is -- to be associated with meat eaters, that is his association level. According to -- himself. When a person finally becomes "fully sincere," he will avoid the Vaishnavas and associate with the beef steak society. Where is that stated?

JD asks, how can a person who can only attract the association of the meat eaters -- then be telling me I am not sincere enough -- because at least I associate with the Vaishnavas and the Prabhupadanugas? I am associating with the Vaishnavas, and Kailash says that proves I am not sincere -- because I am not like him -- associating with the meat eaters all the time, with no photo of Krishna? 

That is making no sense at all? If we are sincere, we will be with the meat eaters and we will shun the Vaishnavas? Where did Srila Prabhupada ever say that? 

I said, no photo of Krishna on his videos, is ALSO mayavada. So he is more or less mayavada and associated with the meat eaters, then he says the people who worship Srila Prabhupada are bogus because they are not sincere. The sincere should follow him, and be with the meat eaters and reject Vaishnava association. 

JD says, he is lecturing me about how I need to be sincere -- like him -- so I will have no photo of Krishna and I will be rejecting the association of the Vaishnavas, like he does? That makes no sense? I am associated with fellow Prabhupadanugas, and he is associated with the meat eaters, and he is trying to say association with meat eaters is superior to my association with the Vaishnavas? JD says his head is spinning at the absolutely audacious hypocrisy here. 

JD says he is baffled. If we want to say the sincere Vaishnavas will reject association with the Vaishnavas, and instead associate with the meat eaters, and not even have enough devotion to display a photo of Krishna, is that not simply hypocrisy? So Kailash tells everyone they have to be sincere and then -- they will attract higher association -- like he has been doing -- and that means -- reject the Vaishnava association and associate with the meat eaters, and not even bother to display a photo of Krishna or Srila Prabhupada, which JD agrees, is mayavada?  

Then JD says, it seems the same program with the followers of Kailash like Eric Johansen / Torben / Hanuman Croatia etc.? 

I said, yes they are also avoiding all the Vaishnava groups and they too are living along with the meat eater class almost exclusively. And they too refuse to advertise for example our "original books sites" for preaching etc. because they have no interest in actually making others into Vaishnavas. 

JD says, at least we want to give others Krishna, so how is it -- we are inferior to the people who are not even bothering to place a photo of Krishna on their videos, and they are associated with the meat eater class all the time? How do these people get to be more elevated than those of us who are at least trying to serve Krishna, when they are doing basically none? Disgusting hypocrites! 

I said, as they themselves admit, they attract their association according to their levels of sincerity, and so they are basically only sincere enough to associate with the meat eater class and shun the Vaishnava class, according to -- themselves. I am so sincere, I associate mainly / only with the meat eaters and avoid the Vaishnavas. And I criticize anyone who worships the Vaishnavas. Yep, hypocrisy. 

Gaura Govinda Maharaja says the basic same thing. If we are sincere we will find the same level association as our sincerity. And he has been associated with the illicit sex with men, women and children acharyas program, that reinstated "illicit sex with taxi drivers" as their acharya -- and voted GGM in as guru at that same time. He has been associated with his own level of association, according to -- himself.

Thus the GBC circulates the writings of Kailash and GGM, because they are in league with one another, cheaters and bluffers. 

ys pd