Answering A Prabhu's Many Questions (PADA)

On to the questions:

As you're probably aware, a Bhakti Yoga Club at American University in DC was literally shut down because a non-practicing Hindu girl complained that a Ramayan performance featuring whites was "cultural appropriation". My question: how to we respond to these criticisms? 

[PADA: First of all, it is a little surprising that any of "the Hindus" who come to America -- and who adopt the USA lifestyle for the most part -- could be so concerned about some "White folks" exploiting "their" Hindu culture. If anything the Hindus here have more or less appropriated the Western lifestyle, although they may have some little sentiment for Vedic culture -- and they might attend a temple from time to time. 

For that matter, India itself is largely a Westernized culture, where they appropriated huge sectors of Western technological culture. Then some of them complain -- we are appropriating theirs? They should be proud that at least some of us are taking up some parts of their culture. 

It seems to me that the Bhakti Yoga Club was not very smart in replying to this complaint, so they lost the argument by being weak and wishy washy. Madonna was once criticized for wearing a sari, and she basically said -- I have done more to promote your culture than you are doing. The Bhakti Yoga Club should have gone back and said, why are you people appropriating our Western culture? First of all, prove to us you have not stolen parts of our culture, then we can discuss who is stealing parts of yours. 

I also know various "Hindus" who eat meat, date USA women, and have very little connection to the actual culture of India. So they are appropriating other's cultures, and if some of them complain someone else is appropriating theirs, it is really hypocrisy. One of my "Hindu" friends here dates a USA woman, and he eats her meat cooking etc. but at least he says -- he is proud of me for adopting his culture. That would be the more realistic assessment. You folks are losing your culture, at least we are trying to preserve a portion of it.]    

There is a podcast called "Yoga Is Dead" run by two rather foul mouthed Gujarati immigrant women whose only purpose it seems is to insult whites. Should we just quote shastra to them and explain that "seeing color" is not only racist but adharmic? I have noticed a disturbing trend among both 1st and 2nd generation Indian immigrants to embrace an anti-white agenda (I do not use that term lightly). Should we just preach from shastra or should we first remove the veil of "intersectionality" with secular arguments, then proceed to quote shastra? 

[PADA: Naturally, various people of different nationalities, religions, castes, beliefs, colors etc. can become proud of their birth and so-called special bodily status. A lot of USA people also think they are the superior birth. Pride in one's birth is one of the features of illusion, and it affects a lot of people. However, if these Gujarati women are insulting Whites, the same question arises -- why are so many people in India adopting the "White's" Western lifestyle? 

If the so-called White's culture is so bad and rotten, then why are India folks adopting and following that culture? They are imitating the people they are insulting? So that would be my first question to those Gujarati ladies too, ok Western culture is rotten. So why are people all over India driving Western cars, going to Western movies, listening to Western music, dressing like Westerners, and working like Westerners in factories? And watching Pornhub, at least according to their statistics? And of course -- blabbering on Western style cell phones all day, as is done in the West? 

So it seems there is a little enviousness there. The Westerners are bad, and yet our "pure Hindu" country is adopting their process, but the Westerners are at fault. Well not exactly, the West is not forcing your culture to change to theirs? You people are doing that voluntarily. Of course yes, we are not these bodies. 

So in any case, these ladies are not realizing they should be elevating people by teaching them Vedic process -- we are not these bodies. They should not be discussing "who is White and who is Brown" -- and who is this and that -- our current body is a very temporary covering. So that means they are more or less identifying with the illusory temporary covering, so they are in a major illusion. That means, they are in the same bodily identity problem we have here in the West. That means they have lost their culture and its siddhanta, shastra etc.]  

Second, do you think that the Swaminaryaan Hindus will eclipse the Hare Krishna movement in popularity (if it hasn't already) in India and abroad? 

[PADA: The ISKCON Hare Krishna movement has been in decline for decades now. So anything that is run somewhat sensibly will overtake it -- and easily. At the same time, much of what appears to be ISKCON is not even in the legal name of ISKCON these days, they have shifted the charity names around because of lawsuits. 

And since ISKCON will sue anyone who uses the name of "ISKCON" for their preaching, most people have gave up on even trying to use that name. It is just not worth the trouble to try to start any "ISKCON" center these days. Better to call yourself by another title, and that is happening left, right and center. 

They ruined the good name on the one hand, and on the other hand they will fight tooth and nail to keep people from trying to give ISKCON good preaching or a good name. As soon as ISKCON Bangalore started giving ISKCON good publicity, the GBC immediately spent $20m to sue them and stop them. No one is even allowed to give ISKCON good publicity. Of course, if you want to connect "Hare Krishna" to pedophile acharyas and porno watching gurus and swamis, that is not only fine, but they will build you a samadhi and have you worshiped in the holy dham.

And many of the current apparent ISKCON temples have a number of Hindu type people signing on the legal board of directors. For example, one temple has evidently four Hindu types and one Western GBC person, but the GBC guy is in the minority vote, and so his vote can be over-run by the other four. In fact he could be voted off the board. And when he dies, he will be replaced by another Hindu type person, so the take over will be completed. 

And that is also why more and more temples are catering to the Hindus, and conducting Hindu weddings, funerals, car blessings and even demigod worship etc. Gradually ISKCON is turning into a Hindu type process, and even though sometimes Bhakti Vikas swami types complain about it, he is himself always in India -- with -- the Hindu population. 

So ISKCON has been transforming into a Hindu-ized program all along and it is accelerating more now. Looking at photos of temple programs, it is hard to find Western faces there in most places I have seen. They do not want the Western people there because, they ask too many questions about their bogus guru system. What happens eventually -- as the Western directors die off -- the ISKCON temples become more and more official Hindu programs. That might not be a bad thing mind you. They will eventually bring in their own gurus, perhaps better than a pedophile messiah's project. In sum, the GBC would rather have anyone else being worshiped -- as long as it is not Srila Prabhupada.]

I was very briefly a Swaminarayan Hindu from 2010-2011 but left due to the overt racism I faced (very few whites convert to this particular sect, as I later realized) I faced. 

[PADA: Yes, Srila Prabhupada was unique in trying to get the Western people involved, they are still not exactly welcome in a number of so-called Hindu programs or temples. The official Hindu temples in some cases do not allow lower castes born in India even, never mind Westerners. They are stuck in old school caste brahman-ism. That means many of these programs are having a hard time converting Westerners, but that is fine with me. Let them keep their caste-ism ideas to themselves.]

I have since (2019) discoursed with the future acharyas (of the original lineage) and was very underwhelmed. I do not see what the appeal is myself. The temples are nice but the substance is a blatant rip off of the Goswamis and Vallabha. 

[PADA: They are following general Vaishnava ideas, but evidently they think their guru is also some incarnation (mayavada). They also think the worship should be more focused on Lord Narayan -- and not the conjugal Radha and Krishna aspect. They are partly Vaishnavas, but more into the awe and respect idea, which is not really that bad in my opinion. 

However they cannot work together with any other Vaishnava groups. And if they think their guru is an incarnation of Krishna, that is more or less mayavada. So it is a mixed program, not unlike many other India "Krishna devotees" who also share some mayavada concepts. Srila Prabhupada said India is a hodge podge -- for a reason. There are many people who worship Krishna to some extent, but they are contaminated with misconceptions.

Their guru lineage also seems to be a sort of caste Goswami style process, so it is not gaining really dynamic preaching people -- at least so it seems. Same thing in ISKCON, they select the more pencil pushing corporate types as their leaders, those who will go along to get along. The mundane corporate types become their gurus, and they discourage the more active preaching types from taking a role. So it sort of gets mired down in bureaucracy type leaders who have little potency.] 

They say that follow Ramanujacharya but their Vachanamrut is like a marriage between Pushti Marga (Vallabha's sect) and Gaudiya Vaishnavism. I understand one of the Swaminarayan gurus, Muktajeevan Das, allegedly possesses women in India who were related to his followers (I swear to God I wish I were making this up) and that the women have had to be exorcised in a Hanuman temple in Sarangpur, India. 

[PADA: Well if we look under the sheets of a lot of these various guru sampradayas in India, we will find all sorts of exploiting, deviations, crimes and suppression. Including sometimes -- poisoning of the founder guru so the "successors" can grab the property. That is essentially what the GBC models their system after. We keep hearing about one guru scandal after the next over there, because there is little to no standard for acharyas, which is also why ISKCON acharyas are welcomed there.]

So with all the anti-cult info about ISKCON, should there be similar sites about Swaminarayan? In 2010 I was told by former acharya Tejendraprasad Maharaj that I would become a parshad (basically brahamachari on probation for full swamihood) but I was later told that I had to pay my own way to India! Things only got worse from there and within a year I left the sampradaya entirely.

[PADA: Yes, if they are exploiting others that should be exposed. The innocent should be saved from victimization -- from any bogus program.]

I actually never thought I would get a chance to email you. In 2008 I came into contact with Narayan Maharaj's Gaudiya Math through BV Bhagavat Maharaj. Bhagavat Maharaj told me on the phone, multiple times, that he was personally in charge of the investigation surrounding Prabhupada's poisoning. 

He told me that Satsvarup and Hansadutta had nothing to do with it and that Tamal was the main culprit (he didn't mention Bhakti Caru or Bhavananda). He told me that he left the brahmachari order as a result and only returned in the mid-late 90s. 

He told me that Prabhupad exhuded the "scent of sanctity" as described about the bodies of Catholic Saints. He said that the doctor was "amazed" that Prabhupada, despite being "poisoned THREE TIMES" hadn't died yet and that Prabhupada voluntarily gave up his body. Bhagavat Maharaj told me that he was the son of the ambassador to India and that his first memory was of him falling from Golok or something to that effect? 

I almost moved into the Gaudiya Math center. One of those guys is Abhiram Prabhu. He left the Gaudiya Math to teach yoga and is now a follower of Rama Krishna Paramahamsa (if you haven't read Jeff Kripal's book on that guy, it's a must!). 

[PADA: Rama Krishna mission is currently under attack for placing photos of Jesus and Mary on their altars, and advocating worship of Jesus. Of course we think that is an improvement from worship of Rama Krishna. But yes, many ISKCON devotees go off the reservation and worship other sects. 

Various devotees went to see Mother Amma here and so on. Basically, people are shunning ISKCON due to its homosexual and pedophile guru sampradaya. It will never be popular, ever. Of course then we have the next problem, can people find a better option if they reject the Krishna religion? That is why we encourage people to just focus on Prabhupada, and not his ersatz second tier illicit sex messiahs.]

Bhagavat Maharaj tells us to stay off your PADA website and that you are "envious of others". Quite frankly, I thought this was rich coming from the guy whose shiksha guru, Narayan Maharaj, openly embraced a pedophile, scam artist, and literal murderer Kirtanananda Swami in Florida a year or so before the former's passing. 

[PADA: Well yes, Narayan Maharaja was always hugging Tamal, Indradyumna, Satsvarupa, Sivarama, Giriraja et al. and even Kirtanananda. NM invited me to his ashram after I launched the poison issue, after he had been saying I was a basically a demon for claiming pure devotees can be attacked. 

So NM claimed he wanted to discuss all this with me and iron these issues out, and so I went there and sat outside his room from 8 am to 5 pm, but NM never invited me into his room. Then, the followers told me NM had left the building to go to a Hindu program. So that means, NM was embarrassed that he had supported the pedophiles and poisoners party as "Krishna's successors" and he was not going to be able to answer even one of my questions. 

Of course now Bhagavat Maharaja, Jadurani etc. are big advocates for Narayan Maharaja, who has been the chief cheer leader of the GBC's pedophile acharya's program. So they are compromised with the worship of homosexual pedophiles as God's successors, and that is why they do not like PADA. Narayan Maharaja helped Satsvarupa write the "Guru Reform Notebook," because he was not happy that there were only just a few of his illicit sex acharya pals in ISKCON. 

NM wanted to expand the number of deviants posing as acharyas to -- many more -- to be voted in -- as happened. Of course Narayan Maharaja wants the same people who reinstate homosexual pedophiles as their Vishnupada acharyas to be "the voters" in his guru club. As happened.

So NM was always working with these GBC ilk guys almost the whole time. Later on he had to accept the poison issue because we overwhelmed him with the facts. We kind of beat him into submission by our constantly complaining NM is "kissing the feet of Judas." We finally got to him by pointing out that his serving Judas is not a good plan. 

NM also said that the molested children are just getting their karma, so it is amazing he thinks he is authorized to promote his pedophile guru's programs and give others "their bad karma." How is NM and his clan authorized to give children suffering, they never explain, neither do his advocates like Jadurani. 

No one is authorized to dish out suffering to children -- that belong to Krishna's family. I am robbing the bank, because that is the karma of the bank? It is like the devotee here -- who gave up on Krishna -- and he told me he can go back to eating hamburgers, because the cow has the karma to be made into a hamburger. And NM folks think -- this all makes sense?  

These people think they are authorized to co-create an anal reconstructive surgery epidemic in Krishna's children. Thus, may God help them when they get to the planet where Yamaraja's agents poke red hot pokers into these people's rear ends, to let them know how well their program is appreciated there. They still think NM did a good job supporting his anal reconstructive surgery of children sampradaya! Nope, this is a sampradaya that is going straight to hell ... no question, at least if we believe shastra.

Then again we had the HKC Jaipur / Sanat / Mukunda / Janardan / Pancali / Prahlad et al. group, who were all crying buckets of tears when they found out their anal reconstructive surgery of children messiahs program was in trouble. Jeepers, boo hoo, gimme a kleenex already! Then these people make pretend they do not know how come children have been worshiping the pedophile messiah's program -- that they have been defending? People are worshiping your pedophile messiah's program -- because you folks collectively resist any serious attempts to dismantle it.]      

I asked Pran Govinda (the brahmachari who is still in GM) about this and he gave me the textbook cognitive dissonance "I don't know" answer. 

[PADA: Yep, the know nothings party.]

I was also briefly affiliated with IRM. I was actually supposed to distribute BTP at the festival but by God's mercy, I cancelled at the last minute. That day, the guys were physically attacked by Ravindrasvarup. Talk about luck! Anyway, it is late here and I must retire to my bed. I look forward to hearing back from you prabhuji. 

[PADA: The IRM was very upset with me for my not agreeing to compromise with the GBC. They wanted me to quit writing, because then they could make a deal with Hrdayananada and Jayapataka. That is called illusion. 

Well it looks like you survived the war more or less intact, and that is the most important thing. We were all victimized by all these events, but the good news is we can still take shelter of Krishna and Prabhupada, and no one and no thing can block us from that. ys pd] 

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Prabhupāda: They... It is very difficult. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. speak all these big, big words they have no qualification. Only disqualification is that they do not accept God as Supreme and His instruction is...

Dr. Patel: He may be accepting God as Supreme, but not (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: That is their imagination. God is canvassing, "Yes, I am here." 

Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat [Bg. 7.7]. "Why don't you think that I am the Supreme?" But these rascals will never believe it. And still they'll write Gītā-pravacana. Very dangerous. Gītā is spoken by God.

Dr. Patel: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Some portion. He wanted to prove himself that he is Puruṣottama.

Dr. Patel: He's not Puruṣottama. He does not say that. Puruṣottama is really reality in true sense and...

Prabhupāda: But his disciples say he is more than Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: Disciples..., disciples...

Prabhupāda: That means why he has created such nonsense? If the disciples say something wrong, then that means he is also wrong. These people will never say that "Our Guru Mahārāja is more than Kṛṣṇa." They are not so nonsense. They will say "My Guru Mahārāja is servant of Kṛṣṇa and I am his servant."

Dr. Patel: He has said Puruṣottama is svarūpa. It cannot be a... Anything which is infinite cannot be grasped by finite senses. That's what he said.

Prabhupāda: This is going on. But disciples say that Aurobindo is more than... This is their knowledge.

Girirāja: That means he's failed as a guru. He hasn't...

Prabhupāda: He could not give them right knowledge. Phalena paricīyate. The paricīya is to be understood by the result. The disciple is the result. If they are so fool, then what is the guru?

Dr. Patel: Vaiṣṇava-paramparā, Vallabhācārya, the whole lot is now. I have seen it.

Prabhupāda: They are criticizing us.

Dr. Patel: This thing is the God has to reincarnate Himself again to reestablish bhāgavata-dharma.

Prabhupāda: That is everywhere. If you don't mind, your Swami Nārāyaṇa is also like that.

Dr. Patel: All of them. They are. That is why, I mean, liberation is created by God again by incarnation.

Prabhupāda: They create a cheap God. Real God they reject. That is going on.

Dr. Patel: Swami Nārāyaṇa said that (Sanskrit). Only to worship Kṛṣṇa. Nobody else. Unfortunately the disciples... Suppose disciples...

Prabhupāda: That the same thing. If the disciples are rascals, then what is the guru?

Dr. Patel: The disciple is being called guru-Kṛṣṇa again. That is what happens in all the other Vaiṣṇava. They say Vallabhācārya Mahāprabhu in place of Kṛṣṇa. That is wrong. Yathā. Yathā deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā...

Prabhupāda: Gurau.

Dr. Patel: Gurau. That is fact. Then you can get the real, I mean, kṛpā of guru and realize God. But they're...

Prabhupāda: These things happened by Vallabhācārya. That's a long history generally. They call him Mahāprabhu to make competition with real Mahāprabhu, Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Dr. Patel: Vallabhācārya was disciple of Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Prabhupāda: Not disciple. Very admirer. But when He criticized strongly on account of his attacking Śrīdhara Svāmī...

Dr. Patel: Caitanya Mahāprabhu differs in philosophy from Vallabhācārya. He did.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But they were friend, Vallabhācārya and Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So he wanted to present his (indistinct) Gītā to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that "You'll find better than Śrīdhara Svāmī."

Dr. Patel: That is the highest

Prabhupāda: So He became very dissatisfied. He... Because friendly, He said that "If you don't accept svāmī, then you are a veśya." These words He recited, svāmī nā māne yei jana veśyāra. These are there, these words.

Dr. Patel: Vallabhācārya's establishment of his own family members as the paramparā is wrong. That is why the whole system has degraded.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not śiṣya-paramparā.

Dr. Patel: Śiṣya-paramparā is the right... The same thing is happening in Swami Nārāyaṇa's. They have degraded. Because Swami Nārāyaṇa actually put his two nephews as ācārya. That was wrong. In South with Rāmānujācārya, they have got a śiṣya-paramparā. But they have also degenerated.

Prabhupāda: No... Sons also may become śiṣya provided he's qualified. Otherwise not.

Dr. Patel: (indistinct) the real fellow. Real. They this śiṣya-paramparā in two...

Prabhupāda: Śiṣyān ca putrān ca. There is no difference. But not because he is śiṣya of such person or putra of such person. Not like that. Either śiṣya or putra.

Dr. Patel: The guru-śiṣya is as good as putra. More than a putra. To a real guru the śiṣya is more than a putra.

Prabhupāda: For guru there is no difference. But the real thing is qualification. That gotra, our gotra, that is applicable to the śiṣya and to the putra.

Dr. Patel: That is in śiṣya-parampar they have got that... Gautama.

Prabhupāda: Gotra... Just like gotra, Kasya-gotra.(?) This gotra means this family, either śiṣya or putra. Just like Gautama-gotra, there are many brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas. So those who are brāhmaṇas, it means putras and those who are kṣatriyas and vaiśyas, they are śiṣyas. But the gotra is the same. So we shall go down. (end)

Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/conversations/1977/jan/morning_walk/bombay/january/04/1977

Dr. Patel: Yes, Rāma mandiras have all degenerated.

Prabhupāda: There was no Rāma. The guru's picture. He's Rāma.

Dr. Patel: That is Rāma. All the temples of Sañjaya (?), there is always Kṛṣṇa's (indistinct) there. [break]

Prabhupāda: ...(indistinct) What is this?

Guest (2) (Indian man): No, no. He is from that sampradāya. [break] They worship God as Swami Nārāyaṇa. My Lord is Nārāyaṇa. Swami means the Lord, and Nārāyaṇa is the Lord. So they say always "Swami Nārāyaṇa, Swami Nārāyaṇa." Just like we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, they chant "Swami Nārāyaṇa, Swami Nārāyaṇa, Swami Nārāyaṇa." The Lord is Nārāyaṇa, God is Nārāyaṇa, God is Nārāyaṇa. So Swami is Nārāyaṇa. You see, actually what did he preach, "Our Swami is Nārāyaṇa." So they have Swami Nārāyaṇa song.

Prabhupāda: That is Māyāvāda. That is Māyāvāda.

Guest (1): That is Māyāvāda, or whatever it may be.

Dr. Patel: Everything is Māyāvāda.

Guest (2): Oh, Lord is Nārāyaṇa.

Prabhupāda: As soon as we say, "Our Swami is Nārāyaṇa," it is Māyāvāda.

Dr. Patel: It is not that. It is... What he says is not right.

Guest (1): No, that is, I understand. I have not...

Dr. Patel: You read all the magazines that I have read. He accepts... [break]

Prabhupāda: ...Vivekananda has done: daridra-nārāyaṇa. Here is "Swami Nārāyaṇa."

Dr. Patel: That is different also. You don't put up two together.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Same thing. Another...

Dr. Patel: Don't get excited or it will be...

Prabhupāda: No, no. I'm not getting excited. You are getting.

Guest (1): You also don't get excited.

Dr. Patel: I am not getting excited, but it's not that. I will really bring you the real...

Prabhupāda: No, no. I am asking what is the difference between this daridra-nārāyaṇa and Swami Nārāyaṇa? That I am asking.

Dr. Patel: See, he actually went to Badrinath. When we call Nārāyaṇa, Nārāyaṇa, as our Lord, how is it Māyāvāda? How it comes into Māyāvādī?

Prabhupāda: That is explained by Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstraiḥ. Guru is accepted as good as God. Haritvena samasta-śāstraiḥ. Saba-śāstra.

Dr. Patel: In all śāstras.

Prabhupāda: Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktaḥ **, it is said. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ **. And this principle is accepted by great saintly persons. Kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya. He's not one with the Prabhu, but he's very dear servant of Prabhu.

Dr. Patel: That is right.

Prabhupāda: That conception is Vaiṣṇavism. And as soon as you simply say that "He is God," that is Māyāvāda.

Guest (2): Yes but we are not... But he has wrongly...

Guest (1): No, Swami Nārāyaṇa, what I told you the principle of Swami Nārāyaṇa is that...

Guest (2): Swami Nārāyaṇa...

Dr. Patel: You have no right to speak.

Guest (1): No, no. What I understand about this...

Dr. Patel: There are three schools of Vaiṣṇavism. But that... In that school, the preaching and everything in the worship is the same, more or less.

Prabhupāda: [break] The thing is... This is the conclusion, that guru may be worshiped as Kṛṣṇa, but the worshiper knows that "I am worshiping my guru not because he has become Kṛṣṇa, but he is the most confidential servant of Kṛṣṇa." That is Vaiṣṇava.

Dr. Patel: All the Vaiṣṇavas, what he has said. Every time he has said the same thing.

Prabhupāda: This is the difference between Vaiṣṇava school and Māyāvādī school. Advaita-vāda and dvaita-vāda. They become very strong, at the same time, remain servant.

Dr. Patel: These śuddhādvaita-vādīs, their upper garment and lower garment the same as... [break] ...you call Māyāvādīs, they say that this is all humbug and nothing and nonexistence. They... [break] ...both are one and both are right and both are existent and both are... There is no illusion, as you say. The same thing.

Prabhupāda: Simultaneously one and different.

Dr. Patel: That is a little (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: So unless you accept this difference, then it is Māyāvāda. Simply oneness is Māyāvāda

Dr. Patel: That's right. You may... You accept one and the same, separate both or another explana..., another, only Kṛṣṇa knows and nobody knows.

Prabhupāda: No, no. No, why Kṛṣṇa knows? One who is Kṛṣṇa's devotee, he knows also.Link to this page: 

https://prabhupadabooks.com/conversations/1974/mar/morning_walk/bombay/march/24/1974