http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/08-18/editorials16239.htm
Guru-parampara: The List of 32, Part 4
BY: ROCANA DASA
Aug 16, 2018 — CANADA (SUN) —
Srila Prabhupada's Lecture on Srimad Bhagavatam 1.5.12-13, New Vrindavan, June 11, 1969
We find an abbreviated version of the list of Sampradaya Acaryas in Srila Prabhupada's Lecture on Srimad Bhagavatam 1.5.12-13, June 11, 1969:
"Our, this sampradaya, the Gaudiya-sampradaya, is also in the same line--Narada, Vyasadeva. Narada is the disciple of Brahma. It is, therefore, called, this sampradaya... This party is called Brahma-sampradaya. Brahma-madhva-gaudiya-brahma-sampradaya. Originally from Brahma. Brahma instructed Narada. You'll find in the Bhagavata. Brahma is instructing Narada. Now you see Narada is instructing Vyasadeva. Similarly, Vyasadeva instructed Madhva Muni. Now, Madhva Muni, by disciplic succession, Madhavendra Puri. Now, Madhavendra Puri instructed Isvara Puri. Isvara Puri instructed Lord Caitanya. Lord Caitanya instructed the six Gosvamis. The six Gosvamis instructed Krsnadasa Kaviraja. Krsnadasa instructed Narottama dasa Thakura. Narottama dasa Thakura, Visvanatha Cakravarti. Visvanatha Cakravarti, Jagannatha dasa Babaji. In this way, there is a clear line of disciplic succession."
Srila Prabhupada's Appearance Day Lecture in Vrindavan, October 19, 1972:
There are other examples where Srila Prabhupada mentions even shorter extracts from the list, such as during his lecture on Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Goswami's Appearance Day, October 19, 1972 in Vrndavana:
"The first guru is Krsna. Next guru is Lord Brahma. Next guru is Narada. Next guru is Vyasadeva. Next guru is Madhvacarya. And so many others. And their branches. In this way, Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Then the Gosvamis. Then Srinivasa, Srinivasa Acarya, Narottama dasa Thakura. In this way, the parampara is coming. So this is the machine."
While there are some small inconsistencies, these lists of the guru-parampara are all essentially the same. Regardless, the list of 32 Sampradaya Acaryas presented in Srila Prabhupada's Bhagavad-gita As It Is must be taken as the definitive list.
Spiritual Masters in Perfection in the Disciplic Succession
In Srimad Bhagavatam 2.8.25 we read that Sukadeva Goswami is "as good as Brahma, the original living being". He is also being compared to "previous philosophical speculators", described in the purport as being the founders of the six great schools of philosophy in India. Sukadeva is a perfect transmitter of knowledge because he simply repeats what was spoken by Brahmaji. Srila Prabhupada writes:
"Vedic transcendental knowledge descends directly from the Personality of Godhead. By His mercy, Brahma, the first living being in the universe, was enlightened, and from Brahmaji, Narada was enlightened, and from Narada, Vyasa was enlightened. Sukadeva Gosvami received such transcendental knowledge directly from his father, Vyasadeva. Thus the knowledge, being received from the chain of disciplic succession, is perfect. One cannot be a spiritual master in perfection unless and until one has received the same by disciplic succession. That is the secret of receiving transcendental knowledge."
(Srimad Bhagavatam 2.8.25 Purport)
It's very interesting that in this purport, Srila Prabhupada has named the original members of the Brahma Sampradaya: Brahma, Narada, and Vyasa. This is the list of original members of the disciplic succession who have perfectly passed the knowledge. Then Srila Prabhupada mentions Sukadeva Goswami as a perfect transmitter. However, Sukadeva is not included on the List of 32.
On a timeline, Sukadeva advented during the gap between his father Vyasa, and Madhva. The Srimad Bhagavatam places Vedavyasa's birth in the yuga-sandhi between Tretha and Dwapara Yugas (SB 1.4.14), and states that Sukadeva was 16 years of age at the time of Pariksit Maharaja's departure (SB 1.19.26 Purport). Of course, Srila Prabhupada has stated that we are not to be concerned with such gaps in the disciplic succession:
"Regarding parampara system, there is nothing to wonder for big gaps. We have to pick up the prominent acarya and follow from him."
(Srila Prabhupada Letter to Dayananda, December 4, 1968)
In Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur's Jaiva-dharma, the question is asked: "Is there a list of names of spiritual masters in the parampara given without any breaks?" The answer given is that "from time to time, only the more important spiritual masters' names are included in these lists." (Jaiva-dharma, Ch. 13).
In answer to a similar question about gaps in the parampara, Tripurari Swami in a Q&A entitled 'Gaps in Guru Parampara' (Nov 2005) [2] suggests that, "Either there was no one prominent enough to equal the stature of these two devotees [Baladeva Vidyabhusana and Jagannatha dasa Babaji] to warrant listing his or her name or, more likely, the names of the prominent siksa or diksa links for that section of the list have been lost."
We are aware of no information that indicates names were lost, nor does Tripurari Swami offer any citations in this regard. Of course, the idea that names were lost opens the door for arguing precedent for contemporary gurus and disciples adding names to the list. However, Srila Bhaktivinoda gives a clear answer to the dilemma of gaps: "from time to time, only the more important spiritual masters' names are included in these lists."
The clear message here is that the names on the List of 32 following Brahma, Narada, and Vyasa are the topmost perfect transmitters of knowledge in the Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Vaisnava Sampradaya. They are 'spiritual masters in perfection' (SB 2.8.25 P) in the disciplic succession.
This also confirms that Srila Prabhupada was making a very precise statement when he added his own name to the list. It was not a casual act, comparing himself to all Vaisnavas in the line, or to all Acaryas, or to all the godbrothers or well known preachers of his generation. No, the List of 32 is a list of spiritual masters in perfection in the disciplic succession. The descriptive term we use to describe these personalities is, the Sampradaya Acaryas.
______________________
FOOTNOTES:
[2] Gaps in Guru Parampara: Q & A with Swami B. V. Tripurari, November 8, 2005 http://www.vnn.org/editorials/ET0511/ET10-8860.html
Guru-parampara: The List of 32, Part 4
BY: ROCANA DASA
Aug 16, 2018 — CANADA (SUN) —
Srila Prabhupada's Lecture on Srimad Bhagavatam 1.5.12-13, New Vrindavan, June 11, 1969
We find an abbreviated version of the list of Sampradaya Acaryas in Srila Prabhupada's Lecture on Srimad Bhagavatam 1.5.12-13, June 11, 1969:
"Our, this sampradaya, the Gaudiya-sampradaya, is also in the same line--Narada, Vyasadeva. Narada is the disciple of Brahma. It is, therefore, called, this sampradaya... This party is called Brahma-sampradaya. Brahma-madhva-gaudiya-brahma-sampradaya. Originally from Brahma. Brahma instructed Narada. You'll find in the Bhagavata. Brahma is instructing Narada. Now you see Narada is instructing Vyasadeva. Similarly, Vyasadeva instructed Madhva Muni. Now, Madhva Muni, by disciplic succession, Madhavendra Puri. Now, Madhavendra Puri instructed Isvara Puri. Isvara Puri instructed Lord Caitanya. Lord Caitanya instructed the six Gosvamis. The six Gosvamis instructed Krsnadasa Kaviraja. Krsnadasa instructed Narottama dasa Thakura. Narottama dasa Thakura, Visvanatha Cakravarti. Visvanatha Cakravarti, Jagannatha dasa Babaji. In this way, there is a clear line of disciplic succession."
Srila Prabhupada's Appearance Day Lecture in Vrindavan, October 19, 1972:
There are other examples where Srila Prabhupada mentions even shorter extracts from the list, such as during his lecture on Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Goswami's Appearance Day, October 19, 1972 in Vrndavana:
"The first guru is Krsna. Next guru is Lord Brahma. Next guru is Narada. Next guru is Vyasadeva. Next guru is Madhvacarya. And so many others. And their branches. In this way, Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Then the Gosvamis. Then Srinivasa, Srinivasa Acarya, Narottama dasa Thakura. In this way, the parampara is coming. So this is the machine."
While there are some small inconsistencies, these lists of the guru-parampara are all essentially the same. Regardless, the list of 32 Sampradaya Acaryas presented in Srila Prabhupada's Bhagavad-gita As It Is must be taken as the definitive list.
Spiritual Masters in Perfection in the Disciplic Succession
In Srimad Bhagavatam 2.8.25 we read that Sukadeva Goswami is "as good as Brahma, the original living being". He is also being compared to "previous philosophical speculators", described in the purport as being the founders of the six great schools of philosophy in India. Sukadeva is a perfect transmitter of knowledge because he simply repeats what was spoken by Brahmaji. Srila Prabhupada writes:
"Vedic transcendental knowledge descends directly from the Personality of Godhead. By His mercy, Brahma, the first living being in the universe, was enlightened, and from Brahmaji, Narada was enlightened, and from Narada, Vyasa was enlightened. Sukadeva Gosvami received such transcendental knowledge directly from his father, Vyasadeva. Thus the knowledge, being received from the chain of disciplic succession, is perfect. One cannot be a spiritual master in perfection unless and until one has received the same by disciplic succession. That is the secret of receiving transcendental knowledge."
(Srimad Bhagavatam 2.8.25 Purport)
It's very interesting that in this purport, Srila Prabhupada has named the original members of the Brahma Sampradaya: Brahma, Narada, and Vyasa. This is the list of original members of the disciplic succession who have perfectly passed the knowledge. Then Srila Prabhupada mentions Sukadeva Goswami as a perfect transmitter. However, Sukadeva is not included on the List of 32.
On a timeline, Sukadeva advented during the gap between his father Vyasa, and Madhva. The Srimad Bhagavatam places Vedavyasa's birth in the yuga-sandhi between Tretha and Dwapara Yugas (SB 1.4.14), and states that Sukadeva was 16 years of age at the time of Pariksit Maharaja's departure (SB 1.19.26 Purport). Of course, Srila Prabhupada has stated that we are not to be concerned with such gaps in the disciplic succession:
"Regarding parampara system, there is nothing to wonder for big gaps. We have to pick up the prominent acarya and follow from him."
(Srila Prabhupada Letter to Dayananda, December 4, 1968)
In Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur's Jaiva-dharma, the question is asked: "Is there a list of names of spiritual masters in the parampara given without any breaks?" The answer given is that "from time to time, only the more important spiritual masters' names are included in these lists." (Jaiva-dharma, Ch. 13).
In answer to a similar question about gaps in the parampara, Tripurari Swami in a Q&A entitled 'Gaps in Guru Parampara' (Nov 2005) [2] suggests that, "Either there was no one prominent enough to equal the stature of these two devotees [Baladeva Vidyabhusana and Jagannatha dasa Babaji] to warrant listing his or her name or, more likely, the names of the prominent siksa or diksa links for that section of the list have been lost."
We are aware of no information that indicates names were lost, nor does Tripurari Swami offer any citations in this regard. Of course, the idea that names were lost opens the door for arguing precedent for contemporary gurus and disciples adding names to the list. However, Srila Bhaktivinoda gives a clear answer to the dilemma of gaps: "from time to time, only the more important spiritual masters' names are included in these lists."
The clear message here is that the names on the List of 32 following Brahma, Narada, and Vyasa are the topmost perfect transmitters of knowledge in the Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Vaisnava Sampradaya. They are 'spiritual masters in perfection' (SB 2.8.25 P) in the disciplic succession.
This also confirms that Srila Prabhupada was making a very precise statement when he added his own name to the list. It was not a casual act, comparing himself to all Vaisnavas in the line, or to all Acaryas, or to all the godbrothers or well known preachers of his generation. No, the List of 32 is a list of spiritual masters in perfection in the disciplic succession. The descriptive term we use to describe these personalities is, the Sampradaya Acaryas.
______________________
FOOTNOTES:
[2] Gaps in Guru Parampara: Q & A with Swami B. V. Tripurari, November 8, 2005 http://www.vnn.org/editorials/ET0511/ET10-8860.html
[PADA: Why has Rocana taken it upon himself that he has to join with the ISKCON GBC and "add" apparently unlimited "new names to the parampara," by a concocted guru voting process. Rocana has penned his "ISKCON Constitution" wherein he details his scheme for "voting in more gurus." That means there is no factual difference between Rocana's system and the GBC's?
And Rocana says sure, his "voted in" gurus will deviate, but that simply means we need tougher enforcement of the rules for his self-evidently conditioned soul acharyas. Oh great, Badrinarayan swami (?) is going to be "the enforcer in chief, the lead Sheriff in charge of -- the acharya's chastisement and regulation committee"? If Badrinarayan is in charge of chastising Krishna and His acharyas, who is in charge of chastising Badrinaryana? Since Krishna dicates to the acharyas, how can Badrinarayan over-step Krishna and dictate something else?
Rocana never answers these questions; Where does Srila Prabhupada authorize the GBC to vote in more gurus? And if Rocana's guru candidates are prone to deviation, and are in need of being contained by the laws and rules of a guru regulating committee, how are these people gurus in the first place? And what exactly is a guru regulating committee? And why does Rocana think some folks like Hrdayananda, Romapada and so on, are qualified to participate in a committee to regulate the acharyas, when most of us think their committee members are deviants themselves? How can deviants regulate other deviants?
The good news is that sometimes Rocana admits that only the 32 are acharyas, and his voted in second tier -- are not. So this seems like Rocana is fighting with his own shadow, the ritviks are right, there are only 32 names listed. At the same time Rocana says the ritviks are bogus because they do not accept his committee monitored acharyas, who are self evidently -- in a number of cases -- prone to illicit sex with men, women and children?
It seems Rocana wants is both ways? (A) We are going to agree with the ritviks, there are only 32 acharyas, at the same time (B) we need to vote in more acharyas who are going to be subordinated to our acharya regulating committee. Ooops, same committee that has been certifying illicit sex with men, women and children prone folks as their acharyas?
Meanwhile Rocana's groupie "Hanuman Dasa Croatia" says we need to go find a guru somewhere. OK this is mayavada, we have to name the guru. Then he says, maybe Bhakti Vikas swami is that guru, because he only says what Srila Prabhupada says. Ooops, Bhakti Vikas swami is voted into the GBC's illicit sex and debauchee's guru program, same program that recoronated sex with taxi drivers as their Vishnupada acharya. Promoting illicit sex with taxi driver's guru lineages is, the same thing Srila Prabhupada says?
That means -- at least apparently, Hanuman Croatia thinks his guru parampara is highly advanced, because its only having illicit sex with men, women and children. And this is very advanced because? Their chain of gurus does not contain -- sex with goats? Why does Bhakti Vikas Swami participate in an illicit sex guru parampara, and he gets voted in to same? And why does Hanuman Croatia imply that his BVKS / illicit sex with men, women and children guru program is "found in Prabhupada's books"? Found where?
Srila Prabhupada says acharyas are often falling into illicit sex, even with taxi drivers, and we need to be "voted in" to a parampara that advocates that process, like BVKS has apparently been doing all along now since 1978? Where does Srila Prabhupada say that?
God's Vishnupada acharyas should be included in the list with Bhakti Vikas Swami's sex with taxi driver's guru parampara? And why doesn't Hanuman Croatia, apparently also Rocana and so forth, know that their GBC "guru voting" program is a deviation? And how can their neophyte gurus absorb sins and etc.?
Bhakti Vikas Swami is bona fide -- because? He is the "sannyasa disciple" of the founder father of: the illicit sex with men, women and children acharya's program? What bona fide Vaishnava has ever promoted an illicit sex guru parampara? Which -- as an added bonus -- their parampara folks ban, beat, molest, sue and kill -- the Vaishnavas, which has given Krishna's name a giant black eye in the media, and bankrupted ISKCON? Why does Hanuman Croatia promote this program and its biggest leading members? And this is what they find in "Prabhupada's books"? WHERE?
And Rocana says sure, his "voted in" gurus will deviate, but that simply means we need tougher enforcement of the rules for his self-evidently conditioned soul acharyas. Oh great, Badrinarayan swami (?) is going to be "the enforcer in chief, the lead Sheriff in charge of -- the acharya's chastisement and regulation committee"? If Badrinarayan is in charge of chastising Krishna and His acharyas, who is in charge of chastising Badrinaryana? Since Krishna dicates to the acharyas, how can Badrinarayan over-step Krishna and dictate something else?
Rocana never answers these questions; Where does Srila Prabhupada authorize the GBC to vote in more gurus? And if Rocana's guru candidates are prone to deviation, and are in need of being contained by the laws and rules of a guru regulating committee, how are these people gurus in the first place? And what exactly is a guru regulating committee? And why does Rocana think some folks like Hrdayananda, Romapada and so on, are qualified to participate in a committee to regulate the acharyas, when most of us think their committee members are deviants themselves? How can deviants regulate other deviants?
Where is Rocana's acharya regulating committee?
The good news is that sometimes Rocana admits that only the 32 are acharyas, and his voted in second tier -- are not. So this seems like Rocana is fighting with his own shadow, the ritviks are right, there are only 32 names listed. At the same time Rocana says the ritviks are bogus because they do not accept his committee monitored acharyas, who are self evidently -- in a number of cases -- prone to illicit sex with men, women and children?
It seems Rocana wants is both ways? (A) We are going to agree with the ritviks, there are only 32 acharyas, at the same time (B) we need to vote in more acharyas who are going to be subordinated to our acharya regulating committee. Ooops, same committee that has been certifying illicit sex with men, women and children prone folks as their acharyas?
Meanwhile Rocana's groupie "Hanuman Dasa Croatia" says we need to go find a guru somewhere. OK this is mayavada, we have to name the guru. Then he says, maybe Bhakti Vikas swami is that guru, because he only says what Srila Prabhupada says. Ooops, Bhakti Vikas swami is voted into the GBC's illicit sex and debauchee's guru program, same program that recoronated sex with taxi drivers as their Vishnupada acharya. Promoting illicit sex with taxi driver's guru lineages is, the same thing Srila Prabhupada says?
That means -- at least apparently, Hanuman Croatia thinks his guru parampara is highly advanced, because its only having illicit sex with men, women and children. And this is very advanced because? Their chain of gurus does not contain -- sex with goats? Why does Bhakti Vikas Swami participate in an illicit sex guru parampara, and he gets voted in to same? And why does Hanuman Croatia imply that his BVKS / illicit sex with men, women and children guru program is "found in Prabhupada's books"? Found where?
Srila Prabhupada says acharyas are often falling into illicit sex, even with taxi drivers, and we need to be "voted in" to a parampara that advocates that process, like BVKS has apparently been doing all along now since 1978? Where does Srila Prabhupada say that?
God's Vishnupada acharyas should be included in the list with Bhakti Vikas Swami's sex with taxi driver's guru parampara? And why doesn't Hanuman Croatia, apparently also Rocana and so forth, know that their GBC "guru voting" program is a deviation? And how can their neophyte gurus absorb sins and etc.?
Making the sex with taxi driver's guru parampara great again?
GBC committee cites Ramabhadra / Romapada program as:
Violating rules. Therefore!
Lets send Romapada all over ISKCON to initiate people?
Where is the enforcement?
ys pd
angel108b@yahoo.com
All of them are connected. Unfortunately, the Vedic Planetarium is the head quarters of the GBC's illicit sex acharya's program. This is where they voted to re-certify their sex with taxi driver's acharya. It does not matter how nice a building one has, one who promotes worship of debauchees as acharyas goes down species, no matter what. The good news is, even dogs do not worship debauchees, so eventually they will become elevated enough to take such an exalted birth. ys pd
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