Camp: Frisco (Dallas) Texas, USA
Dear Saraswati Mataji,
Namonamaha. Jaya Srila Prabhupada!
Received your message:
> Basu Gosh Prabhu,
>
> Great! Submit it to the ICPO so they can review it as part of their
> complete case file.
>
> Hare Krishna,
> Saraswati
Hmm. Myself, and the ISKCON India leadership reject your outlook, that the ICPO should review the case. Kindly note that such letters from you won't change our view of this case. Simple logic: the ICPO consists of ordinary devotees, and not devatas (demigods) from Indraswarga (the heavenly planets). As are the GBC themselves.
The ICPO derives it's credentials and reason to exist from the GBC. So they are, in one sense, "one and the same". Anyway, the establishment of the ICPO is to satisfy modern Western morality. Srila Prabhupada did not instruct that we form an ICPO.
In India, for millenia religious institutions existed, but sure, they were mostly monastaries for renunicates, and there were no CPOs. Sure, no one desires that children be sexually abused by adults. It's unacceptable. Zero tolerance. We agree on this.
But for the umpteenth time, since we discussed this issue via Facebook last
month, Lokanath Swami is just not a child molester or child abuser. The incident as reported by the girl Satya, proves as much. The analysis carried out by the CAP Behaviour Associates, Inc., exonerated him totally.
Your campaign ignores these facts, and has become "a proverbial witch hunt",
without logic and reason. Of course, you know how we feel, but you wish to be obstinate. OK, do as you please. You are not a small child. But you are claiming to be a devotee, and yet you certainly are indulging in "wishing away" the words of
Lord Krishna in Bhagavad-gita 9.30:
"Even if one commits the most abominable action, if he is engaged in devotional service he is to be considered saintly because he is properly situated in his determination."
and Prabhupada's words in his purport:
"As far as possible, a devotee is very cautious so that he does not do anything that could disrupt his wholesome condition. He knows that perfection in his activities depends on his progressive realization of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sometimes, however, it may be seen that a person in Kṛṣṇa consciousness commits some act which may be taken as most abominable socially or politically. But such a temporary falldown does not disqualify him."
If we are followers of Lord Krishna and Srila Prabhupada ought we not agree
with these words? As you may be aware, there are other such examples of those who strayed from the path of bhakti - as the testimony by Gaura Prabhu - confirmed by Bhakti Chaitanya Swami (the GBC Chairman) - shows, and these devotees were welcomed in ISKCON by Prabhupada.
Why can't you digest that Lokanath Maharaj had a "momentary lapse of judgment" - yes, over the period of a week, but he did not sexually molest
the girl in the strictest sense of the word? He did not directly touch her
private parts, nor attempt to rape her.
His very minor indescretions were not repeated. He is not a serial abuser. So why not see the good qualities - become "guna grahi" (accept the good qualities) instead of the hate campaign - dragging Maharaj's name through the mud by labelling him a child molester? How is this campaign a positive contribution to spreading the Krishna Consciousness movement?
No, it's just negativity, overblowing something that was "case closed", 30 years ago. Not at all in the spirit of what our shastras and acharyas teach. The GBC seems to have understood and took the case back from the ICPO.
The above are my subjective opinions. Sure. But I have discussed with numerous devotees, both here in the USA, and in India. Those who I am talking to agree that this thing is being way, way overblown. But sure, you've heard it all, and will continue to carry out the campaign, that many feel has "gone beyond logic and reason". The campaign rally cry that Maharaj is "a serial sexual predator", which we know he is not.
Suit yourself, but know that many of us will not agree with you, and will continue to dispute your -- what we understand as "almost baseless" -- allegations against Maharaj.
To conclude, I hope "better sense prevails".
Hope this meets you well.
dasanudas,
Basu Ghosh Das
Facebook: Basu Ghosh Das
Dear Saraswati Mataji,
Namonamaha. Jaya Srila Prabhupada!
Received your message:
> Basu Gosh Prabhu,
>
> Great! Submit it to the ICPO so they can review it as part of their
> complete case file.
>
> Hare Krishna,
> Saraswati
Hmm. Myself, and the ISKCON India leadership reject your outlook, that the ICPO should review the case. Kindly note that such letters from you won't change our view of this case. Simple logic: the ICPO consists of ordinary devotees, and not devatas (demigods) from Indraswarga (the heavenly planets). As are the GBC themselves.
The ICPO derives it's credentials and reason to exist from the GBC. So they are, in one sense, "one and the same". Anyway, the establishment of the ICPO is to satisfy modern Western morality. Srila Prabhupada did not instruct that we form an ICPO.
In India, for millenia religious institutions existed, but sure, they were mostly monastaries for renunicates, and there were no CPOs. Sure, no one desires that children be sexually abused by adults. It's unacceptable. Zero tolerance. We agree on this.
But for the umpteenth time, since we discussed this issue via Facebook last
month, Lokanath Swami is just not a child molester or child abuser. The incident as reported by the girl Satya, proves as much. The analysis carried out by the CAP Behaviour Associates, Inc., exonerated him totally.
Your campaign ignores these facts, and has become "a proverbial witch hunt",
without logic and reason. Of course, you know how we feel, but you wish to be obstinate. OK, do as you please. You are not a small child. But you are claiming to be a devotee, and yet you certainly are indulging in "wishing away" the words of
Lord Krishna in Bhagavad-gita 9.30:
"Even if one commits the most abominable action, if he is engaged in devotional service he is to be considered saintly because he is properly situated in his determination."
and Prabhupada's words in his purport:
"As far as possible, a devotee is very cautious so that he does not do anything that could disrupt his wholesome condition. He knows that perfection in his activities depends on his progressive realization of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sometimes, however, it may be seen that a person in Kṛṣṇa consciousness commits some act which may be taken as most abominable socially or politically. But such a temporary falldown does not disqualify him."
If we are followers of Lord Krishna and Srila Prabhupada ought we not agree
with these words? As you may be aware, there are other such examples of those who strayed from the path of bhakti - as the testimony by Gaura Prabhu - confirmed by Bhakti Chaitanya Swami (the GBC Chairman) - shows, and these devotees were welcomed in ISKCON by Prabhupada.
Why can't you digest that Lokanath Maharaj had a "momentary lapse of judgment" - yes, over the period of a week, but he did not sexually molest
the girl in the strictest sense of the word? He did not directly touch her
private parts, nor attempt to rape her.
His very minor indescretions were not repeated. He is not a serial abuser. So why not see the good qualities - become "guna grahi" (accept the good qualities) instead of the hate campaign - dragging Maharaj's name through the mud by labelling him a child molester? How is this campaign a positive contribution to spreading the Krishna Consciousness movement?
No, it's just negativity, overblowing something that was "case closed", 30 years ago. Not at all in the spirit of what our shastras and acharyas teach. The GBC seems to have understood and took the case back from the ICPO.
The above are my subjective opinions. Sure. But I have discussed with numerous devotees, both here in the USA, and in India. Those who I am talking to agree that this thing is being way, way overblown. But sure, you've heard it all, and will continue to carry out the campaign, that many feel has "gone beyond logic and reason". The campaign rally cry that Maharaj is "a serial sexual predator", which we know he is not.
Suit yourself, but know that many of us will not agree with you, and will continue to dispute your -- what we understand as "almost baseless" -- allegations against Maharaj.
To conclude, I hope "better sense prevails".
Hope this meets you well.
dasanudas,
Basu Ghosh Das
Facebook: Basu Ghosh Das
[PADA: Wow. Bhagavad Gita 9:30 says that a neophyte may sometimes act abominably. Therefore! When Krishna's parampara acharyas -- if not God's "Jesus-like messiahs" and guru successors -- are deviating, we should tolerate and forgive. Ooops! Not what it says! This verse does not allow that conditioned souls can pose as acharyas and messiahs, and then perhaps act in an abominable manner, and then be -- forgiven, albeit sometimes censured, monitored, corrected, voted in, voted out, suspended, removed, exiled, excommunicated and etc.
This verse is ALL about us neophyte conditioned souls -- those who are at the beginning stages -- making an attempt to be Krishna conscious. Yes! We should overlook the faults of other neophytes -- because as a group -- we are ALL prone to be faulty. Or even sometimes -- abominable! Yet! This verse does not even mention the words "acharyas" "gurus" "messiahs" and / or "parampara members" being engaged in abominable actions etc.
It is amazing that Basu Ghosh party evidently thinks God's messiahs, gurus and acharyas are often acting like abominable neophytes. Nope! Rather shastra says it is the mad elephant offense to consider that acharyas and messiahs are acting like mundane conditioned neophytes or ordinary sadhakas.
The India ISKCON ICC are blending together the fallen souls -- or at least us neophyte spiritual aspirants -- who are expected to be sometimes acting abominably by our conditioned nature -- with the exalted status of messiahs, gurus and acharyas. An acharya is not engaged in abominable activity, because he has transcended abominable activity.
Otherwise, he is not yet a guru. So this is what they said the whole time. Jayatirtha is a messiah, ok and he is having sex with a follower, not a problem, he should be forgiven for acting abominably. Then, he gets his head chopped off for having sex with a follower later on? How does that help ISKCON?
Jayadvaita says their gurus are engaged in illicit sex with men, women and possibly children. And then again some of their messiahs are drunks, drug addicts, porno swamis, Las Vegas gamblers, Vodka drinkers, and who knows what else. So let us forgive them and keep them in the post of guru? That is why ISKCON has lost credibility.
Thus!
A) Lokanath swami is a diksha guru, identical to JESUS because he can absorb sins -- just like Jesus as a diksha (sin absorbing) guru.
B) He is caught touching a young girl, and he is voted into a homosexual and pedophile guru lineage, which is banning, beating, molesting, suing and killing devotees of God and yet ....
C) We should just forgive all this and move on?
Why? Because God's successors and messiahs are -- wait for it -- often acting in an abominable manner! OK that is not what Krishna is teaching us. The people who are sometimes acting in an abominable manner are us, the conditioned soul neophytes. Of course -- we should forgive abominable messiahs, but not forgive the people who want to worship pure devotees -- they are banned and not forgiven?
Anyway this is never going to fly. To say that gurus, messiahs and acharyas are acting abominably is not going to be accepted, except by a small cult of fools. The good news is, they are sticking with their idea that God's successors are sometimes abominable, that means we were right when we pointed that out all along since 1979. How many people in the world think God's messiah successors are sometimes abominable people who should be forgiven for being abominable?
Sounds of crickets? Hee hee. This is really ritvik-disculous. Of course if God's successor is abominable, that makes God abominable too, told ya! Then these India scholars complain, "Jeepers, PADA is like the Christians." Correct, us and the Christians know that messiahs are not acting like abominable fools, rather the neophytes are sometimes acting like that. ys pd]
Dear PADA RE: Gaura das (ACBSP) is quoted as an authority by Basughosh? Nandalal dd who was found dead in her house three weeks after she wrote this, see below. She used to be a co-admin of Gaura's "Prabhupada disciples reunion forum". The next day after her dead body was brought to the local mortuary by the Rome municipality, Floyd County, Georgia her laptop was stolen by some folks in Alachua who posted it on facebook.
ReplyDelete"Haribol Prabhu, I am not a member of this group altho at one time I was one of the Admins. When Gaura exposed his genitals to me twice on Skype I left and took him up before ISKCON Resolve at the suggestion of Brahmatirtha Prabhu. He did admit that he had exposed himself, but argued that it was all a big mistake. However, the psychologist who was chosen especially due to the issues involved said to him "Yes, but then you did it again after Nandalal dasi confronted you. That cannot be a mistake!"
Ever since then their policy has been to attack me rather than stop the behavior. Since then I know of at least 2 other people he exposed himself to: one another of our godsisters and one was not on Skype but was one of our godbrothers. Ramesvara knows about this and so does Sevananda and Ekanatha. Interesting and sad to see how men in our movement cover up (no pun intended) for one another. I also told Bhumi about this and she called me a liar. At the time she had not been chanting her rounds for about 2 months. Anyway, The Legacy Project has nothing to do with the object of Gaura's group. If you choose not to share your email that is your choice. SP's disciples deserve to have the Memoirs and their Memorials along with their photos collected in an organized manner as they are a part of the history of ISKCON and the legacy we should be leaving behind in an organized manner for all those that are coming up after us. Best wishes to you.
PS, I have chosen not to publicly fight with Gaura or his groupies for the moment. I am, however actively looking for others that he has exposed himself to as I feel this is an issue that should be dealt with by a psychiatrist. I very much dislike the idea that he has such disrespect for the ladies that Srila Prabhupada accepted as his disciples. I should add, however, that they have publicly attacked me several times. Sevananda just recently publicly attacked me on the post where I announced we are working on a website, by calling me a 'loose cannon'. It is unfortunate that these types of attacks further divide our Movement. I also feel sad that they are fond of calling themselves 'senior disciples'. When Gaura exposed himself, he was also not chanting his rounds and I had been told by Ekanatha that he had not consistently been chanting them for years.
LD: This is always their "fall back" position. Gurus are Krishna's successors ... therefore ... they are fallen and abominable. They don't seem to understand ... almost no one is swallowing that now. It might have worked for awhile around 1980 ... but then people started to think. Wait! The guru is Krishna's successor ... and that is why ... he is acting abominable? That just ... does not add up.
ReplyDeleteNow some of these India people think this is a racial problem. Maybe it is a racial problem. Caucasian people are generally NOT EVER accepting that Krishna's guru successors are sometimes abominable. That is because the caucasian people are already trained up to know ... Jesus is the guru ... and it is an offense to say the guru would act abominably. Maybe these India committee people could learn something from the caucasians. Just saying! The temples are empty in the West because people simply do not agree that Krishna's successor is an abominable acting neophyte. It just does not resonate there.
In India all sorts of bogus fools become gurus and they can say that gurus are sometimes abominable fools like them ... and a bunch of people there will think that is right. That is not a very high marker for what is right and what is not. In India all sorts of dubious things pass off as guru or even avatars ... but it won't be accepted in the West. Ever.
I also heard this Gaura fellow is a little bit of a goof himself. And this other guy comes out after saying he has no confidence in the GBC ... to defend them?
So now they are down to "we discussed it here and we accept it." "We" who? Same idiots that bury pedophiles in the dham? Not going to be accepted ... no matter what. Lipstick on a pig. Again. It won't work. Again.