ISKCON Dissenters Conversation: Lokanath Swami's Fall Down

S Dasi: One of the comments (about Lokanath) was deleted from the forum.

N.M. Dasi: Yes censorship is their MO. I had such a bizzare experience on another thread.

RD: Yup.

RND: Opinions not held by admins (even if politely & respectfully expressed & in-line with previous acaryas,) will get one silenced & removed.

S Dasi: They have all these rules. Like ... No anti science posts; No anti queer posts; No anti climate change posts. All well and good. Too bad they don't have a rule: No pro- paedophile posts.

M Dasi: ... Right, one is not allowed to have freedom of speech unless one complies with their thoughts about things. They blocked me too.

S Dasi: You radical, you.

LL: Check out Lerma Aja s profile he is real radical I'm just a deflated balloon in comparison.

[PADA: Lerma Aja told me it is wrong to use litigation to contain child molesting, and has no other "plan B" to fix things. So -- that favors the status quo.]

S Dasi: Bringing down bogus dangerous people is how I spend a small portion of my time. Mainly I post uplifting and humorous stuff. May be an image of text that says 'Love is o, a if you care, it grows.' 

A Dasi: I had a similar experience when one of my abusers was being quoted. (someone who was very involved in my abuse as a child in iskcon). I chose to remove myself from the group.

[PADA: Yes, ISKCON favorable forums block anyone who exposes the real problems.] 

L.H. Dasi: Disgusting people. Also may add since my adding "devotees" -- the amount of men posing as women astounds me. They want to fool me they are a woman then send me pics of their naked bodies. Absolutely disgraceful behaviour and Krsna will punish them accordingly.

A.S.D: It is so saddening to go through her experience.....

S.S.: Most of these bastards in every religion are pedophiles ... Look at Catholic church, Islam even buddhists

K.I. Dasi: I’m disgusted but not surprised. iskcon being iskcon.

M.J: Just glad I got out of their whole stupid mess. Good riddance.

R.N. Das: This is a very, very sad report to read, however, the abusive misbehaviour of a tiny minority of people within ISKCON doesn't necessarily mean the entire enterprise is flawed. There have been some major management blunders, especially in dealing with children.

[PADA: The majority of people worship the people who are creating the problems as their gurus ...]

S. Dasi: The GBC as a body has, and continues to deal lightly with sex offenders and minimize the concerns of victims and their families. For a large percentage of initiated and uninitiated bhakti yogis, that is enough to make them keep well away from the entire organization.

[PADA: Yep, Tamal and Bhavananda were joking in 1978, "let them all leave." Well mostly ... they did. So "a large percentage of devotees" avoid ISKCON. Correct.]

R.N. Das: Yes, agreed, it's a big disservice to the victims & Srila Prabhupada's mission generally.

K.I. Dasi: It might be the minority that commit such abuse, but it's the majority that allows it to go unchecked, for these people to remain in power and positions of authority, for this to be the norm.

R.N. Das: The average devotee may not be aware of what the tiny minority have or are sometimes doing & even if they find out, may not have much influence to change the leadership decisions.

K.I. Dasi: R.N. Das ... we all have influence, witholding money, time, attendance, banding together to demand action, it works.

S. Dasi: R.N. Das ... This is why I am informing Facebook friends in this post. The abusive behaviour of L Swami is perhaps one of the best cover -ups in GBC history. Other known paedophiles have been exposed and have gone down, but this one remains as guru and in their report the GBC said that his behaviour was "due to inexperience in dealing with women" and on that basis they excused him and covered up for him.

My speculation is that L Swami has a lot of dirt on present members of the GBC and has power to threaten and intimidate them.

A. C. Dasi: R.N. Das, I see the point you are making, it's very easy to feel helpless. but there are a lot of things that even the 'smallest' devotee can do. We can all take a stand, and at least ourselves, not support known child abusers. We don't have to go to their classes, or kirtans, or programs, or temples. And if they're going to be a "special guest" at a particular event, we can choose not to go to that event. We should boycott their whole program as much as possible, and try to do things ourselves

T. Dasa: A. C. Dasi ... There could be more to do than that ... like you say, forming a group that lobbies ... depending on how many are in the group...

S. Dasi: Of course friends and I are establishing our own community. We specifically and emphatically state that we have Zero Tolerance for child sex offenders.

A.C. Dasi: T. Das ... of course things like that are great as well, but might be too much for some people to take on. The point that I'm making is ... that even the most "humble" mild mannered devotee -- who is not in any kind of position even of low level management -- can and should take action. Leave it or fix it.

S. Dasi: A. C. Dasi ... Such a pity that Hrdayananda Goswami lobbied AGAINST the GBC's decision to place restrictions on Laxmimoni. In spite of CPO investigations and recommendations.

A.C. Dasi: Yes! I too was so disappointed, and he's not the only one. And of course, her's is not the only case where the abuser has been protected by at least some members of the GBC. it's definitely disappointing. It is a pattern.

S. Dasi: A. C. Its frankly nauseating. I feel physically sick when I see photos of these people, especially if they are being promoted as enlightened gurus. Because of past traumas triggered by seeing the post of L.Swami, I pleaded with the admins and moderators to take the post down immediately. They have not been trained to understand the trauma they are causing others.

I wonder if a sanyasi Prabhupada disciple - a male- would have been ignored and disregarded as I was ... for 3 long painful days ... where I couldn't sleep or barely concentrate on my daily duties? Are the Admins too beholden to those in saffron to take heed of a female disciple - and a grandmother?

I joined the temple in 1973 and was sexually propositioned by the then temple president within months. He also touched me in an inappropriate way. I told the senior woman who told her husband. The all male leaders got together and decided that it was me, who had done nothing wrong, that should be sent away to a remote temple.

The TP stayed and later successfully seduced, impregnated then abandoned a teenage bramacarini. Surely S Das knows that around 5 years ago I spent the best part of a year traveling around interviewing victims / survivors of sexual abuse in ISKCON and writing a report for the Commission of Institutional Sexual Abuse. Even if he didn't know this, he should have immediately removed the post pending an investigation.

Instead one of the moderators called me un-cooperative because I couldn't provide a link to the incident in 5 minutes. Anyway, he has since apologised on behalf of the admins and I am thinking carefully about this so my response is considered and not rash and impulsive. There are many layers to this incident.

T. Dasa: A. C. ... Not everyone would want to put their name on a petition, but there are many who would, and that would carry a lot of weight ... specially if you get up over a thousand ... it works in politics and this is politics believe me!!

A.C. Dasi: A lot of the gurukuli petitions were already made, with many signatures, and were never taken seriously. There seems to be little concern for the opinions of the mass of devotees ... only the elites have a say. And they are corrupted.

P.H. Dasi: OMG ... I am until now 100 % sure that this is not Srila Prabhupada's Iskcon ... they totally made it political and an abusive movement. I'd rather stay aside from it.

R.E. Dasa: There’s nothing progressive about that page / group. I left them long time ago. They cut off our comments, removed them, erased whole threads etc.

S. Dasi: They still quote from the original 11 Zonal Acaryas who never issued apologies for the huge mess they made. Here below is the official GBC report on Lokanath. How disgusting! How dishonest. What an insult to the victim and her family to say they were satisfied with the decision. (photo)

A 100% FARCE!

R. Dasi: The only pure devotee I have followed is HDG Srila Prabhupada. The pain of betrayal and abuse remains with us for an eternity. Our biggest challenge is to chant, regardless. Maya will distract us - it's her job. Simplifying our minds will open our hearts to falling in love with Krsna. It takes just split second. All else is devoid of truth love and hope. Much love your eternal servant x

S. Dasi: R.Dasi ... Those of us with a ksatriya or warrior spirit naturally feel inclined to expose dangerous offenders lest they continue to fool and hurt others. For us, this is service- just as much as chanting.

J.A. Dasa: I wonder what Srila Prabhupada would have said to all this. Lokanath is a disgusting old man. He needs to be prosecuted and banished from iscon. 

S. Dasi: J. A. Dasa ... unfortunately, Srila Prabhupada had a great capacity to forgive the sexual deviations and fall downs of many of his senior disciples because they were undoubtedly helping him to expand the mission by opening temples in foreign lands, managing things and so on. We can thank Prabhupada unlimitedly for bringing bhakti to the west while simultaneously being committed to do things differently moving forward.

P. Dasi: But wasn't that only in relationship to adults? I mean, I never heard of him forgiving child molestation. Matter of fact, to the best of my knowledge, I have been under the impression that the authorities hid that from him.

J. A. Dasa ... I wish he was still alive. ISKCON seems to have been watered down now.

[PADA: I am not sure what happened to all of the victims of Madhuvisa when Srila Prabhupada was here. I simply find no overall license to abuse women and children -- since there are thousands of quotes that they must be protected in all circumstances. I am running with the main theme and I stuck up for women and children whenever I could, and I believe that is the over arching principle. 

I also believe Srila prabhupada was starting to clamp down on the sannyasa mob in late 1976, sending Tamal to China etc., which is why I think his poisoning was starting around January of 1977. That is what the hair sample indicated, a lengthy period. 

So whatever he wanted to do was being thwarted and attacked .... that is my bottom line understanding. Overall, he was attacked and then so were we, that is not just my theory, it is factually the history as I have detailed extensively. In any case Madhuvisa left and we all knew he was not approved of. Ys pd

S. Dasi: There were many young men who were doing amazing preaching work. Prabhupada had given many sanyassa knowing that they were not qualified but his reasoning was that it expanded the movement because people in general respect a sannyasi.

So I believe that Prabhupada was grateful to these young men. Actually a virile man in his twenties should not take a vow of eternal celibacy and later, as we know, Prabhupada said there should be no more sannyasa and he gave his blessings that those who had accepted the saffron cloth could now marry and live peacefully as householders with wife and children.

P. Dasi: Yes, I know that's what you said. I simply wonder if there was more to it than that. And yes, Prabhupada even gave the instruction there should be no more sannyasa, but they ignored that instruction, like they ignored many others.

PS: One example comes to mind. For decades we were told that Prabhupada said to send all the children away to the Gurukula's and that home-schooling was not acceptable. Decades later I heard an interesting story. That one woman had written Prabhupada asking permission to homeschool. She was told by the authorities that he replied "no." Decades later she found out he actually said "yes!" So many times sanyasis or authorities or someone else tell us Prabhupada said something when in fact it was some authority etc that said it, just blamed him .

S. Dasi: Yes. These things went on. Prabhupada was furious when he heard that some of the senior men were saying and implementing as policy that women couldn't chant their japa in the Temple Room.

For a while here the men got to chant their japa in the beautiful, spacious, marble floored temple room while the women were relegated to a small smelly prasadam room. Thankfully, on Prabhupadas instructions, this policy was reversed. But look at all the deviations since Srila Prabhupada departed! These ambitious men have done every ghastly thing!

P. Dasi: Oh yes, so many deviations! New or newer devotees hear us say that and often think we are being fanatical, or even just troublemakers. For this reason I try to keep my preaching something they are open to hearing BUT we are not troublemakers. We have something to compare to, and the difference is so obvious. 

Interesting story about the men chanting in a lovely spot while women got well the not so lovely spot. Yet it sounds familiar. Too bad this went on in so many temples throughout the Movement. It defiantly was not coming from Prabhupada. Tho this was the beginning of how other abuses began, cuz where there is woman abuse - there will be child abuse. Basically when eyes are closed to any abuse, or swept under the carpet, it opens the door for all sorts of stuff. Am sure you know all this. 

Regarding the story I told above in my P.S., I forgot to mention and important part. I am one who has to know if something is reallyyyyyyy bonafide. lol I think maybe I drive folks nuts with that but anyway.... after hearing that story, I saw the woman walking down the street in New Dwarka. So I walked up to her to ask if it was true. And long story short, it was. So I got it from the horses mouth. ha

D. D. Das: DISGUSTING OLD MAN, and even more disgusting is -- the pretense that all is well. They protect these people.

E.B.T.: It takes one person to reveal the truth risking her credibility. This girl / woman now has been in a secure environment, confident and outspoken about revealing the nature of this man in saffron. 

S. Dasi: #zerotoleranceforpaedophiles

L. L. Dasi: All of them are unacceptable and nobody should follow ANY of them and give them ANY power over others.

PADA: Ravindra Swarupa, Mukunda swami, Bir Krishna and others all helped cover it up, and promote Lokanath as Krishna's successor guru. This really says it all: Lokanatha swami molested me (Satya dasi)

July 11th, 2010

Hari bol,

IskCon Guru Lokanath Swami

NASTY, VILE PEDOPHILE

touching innocent girl's crotch

I am the girl that Lokanatha touched inappropriately. It did NOT just happen one time in the living room, on the sofa, but rather throughout the week that he stayed he touched me various times inappropriately. I am surprised now (at age 32) that that NASTY, VILE PEDOPHILE did not try to rape me.

He took my innocent father's words of "she is growing up here in America, why don't you teach her some more Indian culture" and turned into his way of taking advantage of me. He called me various times through out that week (it was Easter vacation so I had off), and it was hot, so I was wearing shorts. I was 11 and 1/2 years of age. I sat down next to him after he insisted many times, and he decided he would teach me how to play the harmonium. He several times, rubbed his hand up and down my leg, inner leg, and out, as I was seated there next to him and the harmonium. I asked him "what are you doing?" to which he replied "nothing, just concentrate on the harmonium." I cannot TELL YOU HOW HORRIFIED AND DIRTY I FELT inside.

Through out the days, he then once woke me up singing "jeeva jago, nidra chadi uttha jeeva" and when I got up ( I was wearing shorts), he patted me on my butt. I ran into my mother's room, and into her walk in closet and hid, and he came in after me. He pulled me out, saying "why are you hiding" and again touched me on my butt, held my hands and put his arms around me.

Again he called me for harmonium lessons, and then when he touched me inappropriateley AGAIN on my leg, I got up and ran into the kitchen and went to my mother who was cooking prasadam for this ASS. I went to my friend Sangeeta's home later that day to play, and I told her he disgusts me, I don't like him, and I don't like the way he touches me. He makes me feel so dirty. She didn't know how to react, at age 8, but she said just tell your mother.

The next day, he called me in the living room, and asked me to bring the Krsna book and read it to him. He had me sit RIGHT NEXT TO HIM, leaving no space between us. He PLACED HIS HANDS ON MY CROTCH, NOT ON MY LAP, and said I am keeping the book from touching you there, so just keep reading. He kept his hand there, and any time my mother would walk by the room,he would QUICKLY REMOVE HIS HAND AND PLACE IT ABOVE MY HEAD (around me). He did this several times throughout the course of an hour, and after that sick feeling inside me became the most prominent thing for me, I told him I was tired, and I left the room.

The day after that, some of his bogus followers were there at our house, and when I came inside from playing with my friend (having a dirty feeling inside me the whole time), the ASS had a nerve to call me several times to sit next to HIM in front of everybody. I told him NO!, and ran away.

Ravindra Swarupa

IskCon Guru Ravindra Swarup

PROTECTOR OF NASTY CHILD MOLESTERS

PROTECTOR OF PEDOPHILE Lokanath Swami

Thank GOODNESS the nasty pedophile left the day after, and when my dad suggested I touch his most UNHOLY DISGUSTING FEET I SAID NO! I will not. I told my mother about everything the night before, and she was shocked, disgusted and appaulled at everything.

What could a defenseless 11 year old child do? Just say no, and tell her mother. There was no legal actions that I knew of at the time that I could take. If I had known how to kick that ASS in his groins to teach him a good lesson, I would have. But I didn't know at the time what to do.

Yes, that silly investigation happened by Yashoda and she just followed me around the house, asking me where this and that happened, and how this and that happened. We WERE PROMISED THAT LOKANATHA would be punished. He was NOT.

His stupid misled followers still blindly followed him, and accused me of lying.

I will never forget what I have been through.. Till this day, Ravindra Swarupa, the head of our nearest temple, acts like nothing happened, and was nonchallant about the whole thing. He has always had a cold, DISRESPECTFUL approach towards our family. We trusted him, and he nor the GBC (garbage committee) never followed through. BUT THAT IS OK, THE LAW OF KARMA AND LORD SHRI KRISHNA WILL. That is who THEY will have to answer to ultimately.

PLEASE POST THIS TO YOUR WEBSITE. I have remained quiet long enough. I will not be quiet any longer.

M.M. Dasi (Ireland): Very distressing, your concerns were not accepted by that group. 

S. Dasi: I have just been informed by one of the moderators that, after 3 days, the post has been taken down.

M.M. Dasi (Ireland): Good! 

PADA: Yep, it is the sexual predator gurus and their entire clan of apologists, enablers, sycophants, defenders, hangers on, cheer leaders, groupies, bucket boys and fan clubs. We have to take the whole thing to task -- root and branch. ys pd

S.G. Dasa: S. Dasi, I can't say enough in appreciation for your righteous heart, fierce compassion and fighting spirit. You're an inspiration for many, including me.

S. Dasi: Thank you, my dear, most respected godbrother and friend. I am teary reading your comment. I never mentioned to you that many moons ago, before the advent of Facebook, I read your essay on "Why I Left ISKCON." It had a powerful effect on me.

I felt in a similar way but couldn't express it. You were so articulate, reasoned and rational. An obvious truth seeker. I joined at the age of 17 and as such didn't pursue an academic education beyond secondary school. Later I went to university as a mature age student. I really greatly appreciate this education and advocate to anyone who is capable to get higher education.

Thank you for being a positive early influence.

H. S. Dasi: Yup. Another Monster.

D. B. Dasa: Lokanatha? I used to hear of such great service Lokanath did on padayatra. Why could he could just have gotten married? I know why living the lie is so much easier. Guruship in ISKCON is a gravy train. I seen many of them back in the good old days. When I was a a teen ager back when Prabhupada was around I remember all these sannyasis having nice gold Rolex watches cutting big profiles and hating on women and having disregard for the children. 

Then I saw the guru hoax of the first 11. And they still haven't learned from that. There needs to be severe reaction of child abuse in ISKCON. All the cases need to go to the local authorities. These child molesters need jail time. I have more respect for regular people who eat cows, have illicit sex, and drink alcohol then these fake gurus.

K. P. Dasa: Big part of this problem in our movement is indoctrination that one must never question authority. Our gurus supposedly are as good as God, so how dare you question God? Actually, this is a grossly exaggerated concept. No guru is infallible or always right and the 'as good as God' idea is actually extremely narrow in meaning. Stretching the guru concept into a superman figure always leads to abuse of power.

S. Dasi: For sure. I've come to prefer the simple idea that guru means teacher. There are varying degrees of realization required to be a teacher. Not everyone needs to be hyped as a 100% pure, unalloyed being who every second is absorbed in meditation on the lotus feet of the supreme lord.

K. P. Dasa: Yes, I also see them all as teachers. At times Krsna indeed speaks through them but most of the time they are just teachers who have their own conditioning and limitations.

L.L.S. Dasi: When I asked for initiation, one of the first things my guru told me was that he wasn't a pure devotee.

K.P. Dasa: Yes, some of them are good, honest devotees, well qualified to initiate and lead disciples. 

S. Dasi: Who was that please? At last, an honest man.

S.R.J. Dasi: Rtadvaja Swami

PADA: Srila Prabhupada told us many times in India, we neophytes cannot take the karma of others (as diksha gurus) -- and if we do artificially we will get sick, fall down, or both. A number of them died. A neophyte is still a conditioned soul, and thus cannot take the post of someone like Jesus and take the sins of another conditioned soul. And encouraging that process is why almost all these leaders get sick, fall down, and die, and many of the rank and file who agree with that system also get sick, fall down and die, because they endorsing an offensive process. A conditioned soul cannot absorb the sins of another conditioned soul, and anyone who says otherwise endorses cheating. ys pd

L.B. Dasa: I am presently staying with an ex disciple who rejected Lokanath long ago due to this incident. Rightly so.

S.R.J. Dasi: A friend of mine was Lokanath Maharaj’s servant and he also stopped serving him as a result of this.

L.B. Dasa: A dedicated God sister tried to preach to him that “yes it is very bad what he did, but you still need your living guru”. He thought to himself, no he is the one who needs help and needs a guru.

A.D. Dasa: We must be careful not to the disregard the all merciful compassionate nature of Divinity that surpasses morality and forgives not only the most fallen but also one who commits an abominable act, due to the power of illusory energy. Which force is more powerful ? The force which causes blemish or the force which purifies blemish.

S. Dasi: An abuser must be committed to reform his character.

A.D. Das: Of course. It is not a popular viewpoint but it does warrant some consideration. In the case of Lokanath Swami, he has continued his service without any problems and has performed remarkably well.

S. Dasi: I disagree. I could elaborate. I know more relevant stories. I've said enough right now and intend to move on.

N.D. Dasi: Agree. It is one thing to "apologize" but real genuine apology would have been to give up his saffron cloth and pretence of being an enlightened master capable of taking his disciples back to Godhead. 

S.R.J. Dasi: A.D., the point is, he should not be worshiped as a guru while he has caused great pain to people. How do you think this girl feels about her Krishna consciousness seeing him praised lavishly on the Internet and in person all over the world? After what he’s done to her.

K.P.L. Dasi: A. D., In the brahma vaivarta purana it is made very clear. A vaisnava who commits sinful activities is punished more severely than the ordinary man, since he ought to know better. He is forced to take lower births as punishment. Then when punishment is over, he will get the mercy of taking up devotion to Krishna again. 

Committing sinful activities on the power of the holy name is not accepted, we used to chant that every morning. When you offend the holy name, you say no thanks to mercy, and you get the full power of material nature.

If we have attained love of Krishna (bhava) and accidently commit sinful activities out of habit, we only get figuratively slapped on the fingers, but if we are on the sadhana-bhakti stage, we are in a trial period to test our ability, and if we willingly commit more sinful (prohibited) activities, we will get more severe reactions, and get another trial at a later time (life).

We have to be ruled by our higher intelligence, and just say NO, when lower modes of nature try to induce us into sinful activity. These gurus ought to be learned and at least self controlled, and have the mental power to say NO, and not lie.

A brahmana, when confronted with 'did you inappropriatetly touch that child?', will say YES, I did, I accept my punishment, please give it to me so that I can get purified now, and continue my sadhana bhakti. A brahmana don't deny it, never compromises truth. Our character gets tested that way, what we really are.

G.M. Dasi: He should have been investigated and upon finding other victims, disrobed from his sanyasi and guru titles, turned over to the police and prosecuted. Disgusting, using the name of Prabhupada and being a lower than the lower criminal. Shame of those not believing a child. Shame shame shame. Wake up from maya, idiots.

G. Dasa: Upsetting ... that GBC has let this matter snowball!!! What is going on with these GBC, shouldn't this be dealt with? I'm so disillusioned by the GBC, they have let this go on and on and on!!!! Please deal with it so everyone can go on with their lives.

Boo to you GBC!

A.C. Dasi: G. Das they have let soooooooo many cases of child abuse go on and on. And on! One of the problems is that some of the GBC members are guilty to one degree or another of child abuse, and they seem to like to protect their buddies. Where you said, "please deal with it so everyone can go on with their lives" is one of the most perfect things i've ever read!

G. Dasa: A. C., Thanks, the truth is that we can't go on until things are dealt with, even on the outside we can't trust authorities until they themselves admit and deal with ALL of these incidents. I pray that the authorities deal with these incidents for everyone concerned.

S. Dasi: Sadly the "authorities" are the ones covering up these incidents. We need new "authorities".

G. Dasa: Yep. N.D. Dasi agreed mataji.

A.V.C. Dasi: Despicable! 

G. Dasa: Shame on you, child molester, you deserve the full weight of the law upon you and then some!!! How can you still wear the dress of a highly elevated soul????? Seems to me that you are lower than the lowest....... not higher than the highest.... as the dress of sannyasa? Sannyasa suggests????

S: Dasa: This message was made later on behalf of the group's admins:

Dear S. Dasi, none of us knew about what you've exposed in this post. In your comments to the post in the group you've made some serious accusations about the individual, and we've deleted these comments to check if it was really true. We have informed you that we are checking out the issue, and discussing how to deal with it, and that it will take us a little time. 

We are doing this service as volunteers and verifying such information is not so easy, so we decided to delete the post around the same time you posted this one. We are trying to improve and establish clear policies for cases like this, and have also decided that for similar cases in the future, upon first complaint, we will take down the post immediately and then check the validity of the accusation. We're sorry for your experience, and more sorry and sad for what that female devotee have been through. We were not trying to cover up, but just didn't know for certain if what you heard was true or not. Unfortunately, the internet is full of vile rumors about almost every Iskcon guru. So it's hard to tell. In any case, we hope you will accept our heartfelt apology and commitment to do better in the future.

With warm regards

The admin team

S.R.J Dasi: S Das so, what have you found?

R.E. Dasa: S Das, I left your group for being treated rather harshly and in a very rude way, (I have the screenshots) without any significant reason (as per your own finding) .... weird admins on your team and hardly progressive.

S. Das: S.R.J., sorry, but I couldn't understand your question. And R.E., from what I remember, it was a former admin and it was outside the group, and that you were duly apologized to by him. In any case, we're doing our best to uphold our group's rules and guidelines, but we don't claim to be a 100% safe space as we can't control everything. Sorry for your experience, and thanks for the feedback, we're trying to improve.

M.H. Dasa: S. Dasa: Very old news, it happened a decade and a half ago!

K.I. Dasi: No, S. Das, the question is -- what have you found out in your attempts to verify the claims made against Lokanatha?

S.R.J. Dasi: K.I. this ^ is what I was asking too. M.H. Dasa, a decade does not matter, the effects of his actions still reverberate.

S.R.J.: S Das, my question was, what have you found regarding the validity of claims against Lokanath Swami? True or not true?

S. Dasa: Thanks for clarifying. I heard long ago about some criticism against him that a girl sat on his lap. Probably due to cover up I never knew the details. Not only me, the other admins didn't either. One of us searched the net and found some unreliable sites like ritvik where that incident was described very briefly. 

In any case, we decided to err on the side of caution, and deleted the post. We didn't find the testimony presented in this post, and we all read it for the first time. Very heavy, sad and shocking.

[PADA: Well hee hee, the ritviks are the most reliable sources, sorry! That is why the victim wrote to me. That is also why the newspapers, book writers, TV shows, the police, Federal Marshalls, FBI and many others -- consult us and -- not you!]

S.R.J.: S Das, A good friend of mine‘s husband was Lokanath Swami’s personal servant and traveled with him. When this incident happened, my friend’s husband asked his guru, Lokanath Swami, about it and Lokanath Swami said yes it happened but it’s an Indian thing, you wouldn’t understand. My friend’s husband was so upset and turned off by it, he left his guru’s association and took shelter with someone else.

R.E.: S Das, Thanks prabhu. I appreciate your frank and open responses in this thread. I hold no grudges, but have become a little sceptical maybe even cynical towards ISKCON for the ongoing patterns of covering up and shifting blame to the victim. I think Srila Prabhupada sums it up best:

Srila Prabhupada: "... One who is mischievous, he is culprit. But one who tolerates mischievous activity, he is also culprit. If you are mischievous, you are criminal. But... if you tolerate mischievous activities that is also criminal."

— Morning Walk -- Los Angeles, May 3, 1973

Tolerance is a great quality of the Vaisnavas but it must be applied intelligently.

Haribol 

M.H. Dasa: Yes I think "hang him by the balls" is the appropriate response.

S.R.J.: Or put molesters to death. 

R.P.: S Das hare Krishna Prabhu. You mention that you knew about this incident already before it was posted? So besides worrying about deleting posts from the internet about it, the questions the other devotees are asking ... what have yourself as an ISKCON member done about it? Always side stepping the issue. And! Is it ok for a sanyasi to have little girls sitting on his lap?

PADA: Pretty clear really. The GBC spent $20,000,000 suing Bangalore. And one of their personal stated purposes was -- to put the managers in jail. So the managers of a program that is feeding millions of children in India -- have to be put into jail. Then they can hamper or shut down the food program, so that many of these children will starve. 

Thus the Lokanath GBC program is spending $20,000,000 trying to make sure children starve. Where is the reform? And Lokanath is one of the people who endorses the lawsuits and its leading exponents. Lokanath says -- I apologize for mistreating children, therefore, let us mistreat millions more. It is always about making children suffer with these people. 

Of course they would also rather spend $20,000,000 buying new Mercedes for lawyers rather than feeding children. Same thing happened here, they spent a fortune on Mercedes for lawyers -- so they could avoid paying the children victims. Lokanatha is sorry only a few thousand children suffered in ISKCON, so his new plan is to make millions suffer. He has not reformed, he has got way worse. 

So Lokanath went from abusing one child, to aiding and abetting abusing perhaps thousands in ISKCON, and then they are going after millions of children to cause them harm by ruining their food program, and if they are not checked, they would cause harm to billions of children. That is their mind set, to create more and more hellish troubles for more and more children, and really there is no limit to how much trouble they would cause, if they could. That is why their future birth is to be born as a rat in a sewer, where they cannot harm others.

ys pd

S. Dasi: They are like the USA government who have trillions $$$$ to spend on armaments to bomb oil rich countries and gain control of their resources. Then they call this democracy. The GBC has so much money at their disposal yet they reduced the budget for the Child Protection Agency and so called sanyassis continue to flaunt their personal wealth. Many senior non- guru disciples are suffering ill health and dont have funds to get the medical attention they need.

A sanyassi/ guru has access to unlimited funds- and totally unaccountable as their misguided disciples and followers give them cash donations and gifts of cars, jewelry and properties.

R.P. Dasa: The gurus and the disciples are mayavadis. They are a big disgrace to humanity.

PADA: So what happened was that in January Jayapataka announced that he wanted a few more million to continue the lawsuit, then right after that they started losing millions of dollars due to the virus problem. So after that we have not heard a peep … they also do not have a good case, it is just a waste of money.

R.P.: Jayapaka swami is also into this mess?

PADA: Yes, Jayapataka has a bunch of perps and / or their apologists, cheer leaders and enablers in Mayapur and has had them there for decades. When my friend complained he was booted out. It is a haven for evil doers and still is. 

I know a devotee who tried to commit suicide. He said the biggest problem in ISKCON is --- almost everyone knows there is a BIG problem, and many if not most of them know what the problem is, but they are practically all in denial. And he agrees with me, that is why there is an epidemic of cancer and depression. That is also why we personally have to not let our emotions take a toll on us. We have to realize that it is Kali yuga, and we are watching a horror movie and we have very little ability to change the overall outcome. Our job is to find a few innocent people and try to save them individually, but the bulk of the mass are going down the tubes, and we cannot save them because even Krishna cannot save them. The mass of people, includes devotees, are what Srila Prabhupada calls "determined rascals." So we have to be like Arjuna, in the fight, but not overcome by it and fight with detachment. ys pd

S. Dasi: Well said. While fighting this nescience we have to retain our bhakti spirit and be enlivened by the true nectar of loving service.

E.B. Dasi: Child abuse, sexual abuse exists even in ISKCON. Is it ok to sweep it under the mat, then facilitate such activities to go on , in the guise of power and control? Definitely not. It must be spoken up, reported, investigated, and finally remove the perpetrators from the public positions because they pose a threat to our children, women, and the powerless . We must expose them as a duty of care. Digital technology is a great tool to do just that, and we should do more and more of that.

R.E.: "One who is mischievous, he is culprit. But one who tolerates mischievous activity, he is also culprit. If you are mischievous, you are criminal. But... if you tolerate mischievous activities that is also criminal."

— Morning Walk -- Los Angeles, May 3, 1973

Tolerance is a great quality of the Vaisnavas but it must be applied intelligently.

Haribol 

[PADA: To be continued ... angel108b@yahoo.com]