Mahesh Raja replies to PADA:
http://krishna1008.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/we-are-not-ritviks-pada.html
[PADA: OK! We are not “the ritviks religion.” This was a concoction made by Krishna Kanta and the IRM, and the GBC took off with this over emphasis of a secondary term, and THEY called us “the ritviks.” And then we had to spend a lot of time fighting off this false designation. What kind of religion calls itself “the priest religion”? This really is never done, people emphasize their acharyas, not the priests? This was a bad idea from the get go, and we warned Krishna Kanta of this very pitfall.
Right! Madhu Pandit is correct, we are the followers of Prabhupada as the acharya aka the Prabhupadanugas. We are not the ritvik-anugas? This is a total concoction, no religion calls itself the priest religion either? The priest is the agent, he is not the main component?
Mahesh: Who says about following Ritvik Religion?
http://krishna1008.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/we-are-not-ritviks-pada.html
[PADA: OK! We are not “the ritviks religion.” This was a concoction made by Krishna Kanta and the IRM, and the GBC took off with this over emphasis of a secondary term, and THEY called us “the ritviks.” And then we had to spend a lot of time fighting off this false designation. What kind of religion calls itself “the priest religion”? This really is never done, people emphasize their acharyas, not the priests? This was a bad idea from the get go, and we warned Krishna Kanta of this very pitfall.
Right! Madhu Pandit is correct, we are the followers of Prabhupada as the acharya aka the Prabhupadanugas. We are not the ritvik-anugas? This is a total concoction, no religion calls itself the priest religion either? The priest is the agent, he is not the main component?
Mahesh: Who says about following Ritvik Religion?
[PADA: You said that its wrong to call ourselves the Prabhupada acharya system? Great, except we are the Prabhupada acharya system?
And you said that calling ourselves the Prabhupada acharya program is word jugglery, because it does not include the word ritvik. So no one is allowed to say "Prabhupada is the acharya" anymore, unless they mention your alleged ritviks?
We need a living person, the ritvik, wait a minute, is this not another version of the GBC's idea, the living person is required? No, people can also read the books and understand on their own, and they are!
This seems just a little silly, why not allow people to say "Prabhupadanuga" or "Prabhupada acharya," instead of saying that is a bogus idea? What is bogus about Srila Prabhupada being the acharya?
We need a living person, the ritvik, wait a minute, is this not another version of the GBC's idea, the living person is required? No, people can also read the books and understand on their own, and they are!
This seems just a little silly, why not allow people to say "Prabhupadanuga" or "Prabhupada acharya," instead of saying that is a bogus idea? What is bogus about Srila Prabhupada being the acharya?
And worshiping Jesus as the acharya is wrong, because we failed to mention the Christian priests? All glories to Jesus, .... ooops, and the priests, and the church etc. What happens if the priest is not bona fide, then we have to follow PADA's idea anyway, worship the acharya? You are assuming there is a bona fide priest available, what if there is none? Then PADA's idea prevails, aka the Prabhupada acharya system, and it is prevailing.
Worse, you are saying that we need to always mention ritviks on a site that calls itself "Prabhupadanuga," where no mention of ritviks is given in their title either? So that means you are arguing with -- yourself? You are using the Prabhupadanuga title YOURSELF, which is almost identical to the term you attack -- the Prabhupada acharya title? This is nit picking, and fighting your own shadow to boot!
Prabhupada acharya or Prabhupadanuga is bogus, because it does not mention ritviks, so why are you posting under that title yourself? You are doing exactly what you criticize others of doing, you are using a title that does not mention ritviks. Word jugglery?
You say -- we cannot use titles like Prabhupadanuga and Prabhupada acharya, and that is word jugglery, but that would mean, Prabhupadanuga is also a bogus title? Why are you attacking our title, and attacking the very title you are using YOURSELF to post under -- aka Prabhupadanuga? You said our titles are bogus because we failed to use the term ritvik? The Prabhupada acharya system is the actual system, Prabhupada is the acharya, the ritviks are secondary.]
We are talking about THE SYSTEM. You have just CHANGED the ISSUE in order to please Madhu Pandit Prabhu. Others ALSO say you just FOLLOW BLINDLY ANYTHING Madhu Pandit Prabhu says WITHOUT QUESTION. I have NO HATE for Madhu Pandit Prabhu BUT HE IS WRONG.
[PADA: Worshiping Srila Prabhupada as the acharya is the wrong system? Why is worship of Srila Prabhupada as the acharya the wrong system? That is what the GBC says? We do not need to mention the rtiviks at all, especially since we have hardly any, thus we should tell people to worship the acharya, aka the Prabhupada acharya system.]
If you look CAREFULLY the issue AGAIN it is about RITVIK **SYSTEM**. It is about *** THE SYSTEM***. We are following THE RITVIK SYSTEM as AUTHORISED by Srila Prabhupada as per July 9th 1977 Order.
[PADA: The Prabhupada acharya system is ALSO part of the ritvik system? Madhu Pandit is having people initiated under the July 9th letter and ritvik system, he has ritviks, he does not say these ritviks are parampara acharyas? Why are you saying the ritvik system he has implemented under the July 9th letter is bogus? Yes, MPD says we need ritviks, and they conduct the initiations.
What other title has he given them?
Madhu Pandit has submitted the July 9th letter into court, as evidence of the system he is using and promoting. You guys have submitted nothing into courts, instead you are saying he is wrong to implement the ritvik system, which he is doing? That is what the GBC says? So you claim to want the ritvik system, but you will beat the stuffing out of anyone who implements it, that means really, you do not want it at all!]
Madhu Pandit has submitted the July 9th letter into court, as evidence of the system he is using and promoting. You guys have submitted nothing into courts, instead you are saying he is wrong to implement the ritvik system, which he is doing? That is what the GBC says? So you claim to want the ritvik system, but you will beat the stuffing out of anyone who implements it, that means really, you do not want it at all!]
ALTHOUGH SOMETIMES THE TRUTH IS UNPALATABLE, ONE SHOULD NOT REFRAIN FROM SPEAKING IT.
COMMON-SENSE can tell you that “The name Madhu Pandit Prabhu attributes as “Prabhupada Acarya System” instead of the Ritvik System is just a JUGGLERY OF WORDS.
[PADA: Madhu Pandit is conducting the Prabhupada acharya ("ritvik system"?) bigger scale, you guys are not doing barely even little scale. He is initiating many people under that system, you guys are not. You guys cannot even barely implement the so-called ritvik system. You also cannot even submit the July 9th letter into a dog catcher's court, much less the Supreme Court of India.
So anyone who promotes Srila Prabhupada's July 9th letter -- at great risk and expense in court -- is bogus. That means you will never have the ritvik system, because you will not be able to implement it -- without some sort of legal tussle over the issue, which you guys are failing to do wholesale.
Lets face it, you folks will never take the July 9th letter even to the dog catcher's court ... EVER! But you will attack anyone who dares take it to the BIGGEST courts, which means you help along the GBC? Who else are you helping here? "We want the ritvik system, therefore, we take the side of the GBC and attack anyone who implements it." Why don't you want the system implemented by anyone?]
Lets face it, you folks will never take the July 9th letter even to the dog catcher's court ... EVER! But you will attack anyone who dares take it to the BIGGEST courts, which means you help along the GBC? Who else are you helping here? "We want the ritvik system, therefore, we take the side of the GBC and attack anyone who implements it." Why don't you want the system implemented by anyone?]
Because THIS sort of words invite ANY ANTI RITVIK CROOK in the SYSTEM. Whereas RITVIK SYSTEM sends a VERY CLEAR UNCOMPROMISING message what EXACTLY they are following. THE DESCRIPTION IS THERE. NOBODY NEEDS TO LOOK IT UP. IT CLEAR AS DAYLIGHT. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GROPE IN THE DARK TO KNOW WHAT WE ARE FOLLOWING.
[PADA: So we have to attack anyone who says Prabhupada is the acharya, then you are the same as the crooks, that is exactly what they say! You are also worried about the GBC, who cares about them and what they say? They are not our boss! However! Your over-use of the term ritviks is used by them. They quote you, ritvik this, ritvik that, you and them are parroting THE SAME theme.]
THE VERY WORDS -****RITVIK SYSTEM***- DOES NOT ALLOW -ANY- ROOM FOR COMPROMISE. Do you get this FACT?
[PADA: I think Srila Prabhupada never even used your term "ritvik system," it seems you are the ones who concocted the term? The real system is, Srila Prabhupada is the acharya, with or without ANY so-called ritviks. Even if there are NO ritviks -- ever, he is STILL the acharya, and he can be worshiped with or without ANY ritviks.
We do not need to tell people they can ONLY worship the acharya under the ritvik system, that is totally bogus, anyone can worship the acharya with or without having a bona fide ritvik in their "system". We do not ALWAYS need the church, or the priests -- to worship Jesus, we can worship Jesus independently, and we should stress that idea.
[PADA: I think Srila Prabhupada never even used your term "ritvik system," it seems you are the ones who concocted the term? The real system is, Srila Prabhupada is the acharya, with or without ANY so-called ritviks. Even if there are NO ritviks -- ever, he is STILL the acharya, and he can be worshiped with or without ANY ritviks.
We do not need to tell people they can ONLY worship the acharya under the ritvik system, that is totally bogus, anyone can worship the acharya with or without having a bona fide ritvik in their "system". We do not ALWAYS need the church, or the priests -- to worship Jesus, we can worship Jesus independently, and we should stress that idea.
You are making a bogus and concocted road block to worship of the acharya, out of nowhere. Srila Prabhupada never said a person could not worship him unless they have you and your so-called "ritvik system"? If it can be implemented, fine, but it is not an absolute requirement. HIS BOOKS ARE SUFFICIENT, that is what we should be emphasizing. Even Rocana does that sometime, he says the BOOK BHAGAVAT is sufficient.]
If those ANTI RITVIK GOONS in ISKCON say they are ALL following “The Prabhupada Acarya System” -- where is the DISTINCTION between THEM and US? They ALL say Srila Prabhupada is Acarya. So WHERE is the DIFFERENCE between THEM and US. It becomes all HODGE-PODGE invites ALL ANTI RITVIK GOONS under the SAME umbrella.
If those ANTI RITVIK GOONS in ISKCON say they are ALL following “The Prabhupada Acarya System” -- where is the DISTINCTION between THEM and US? They ALL say Srila Prabhupada is Acarya. So WHERE is the DIFFERENCE between THEM and US. It becomes all HODGE-PODGE invites ALL ANTI RITVIK GOONS under the SAME umbrella.
[PADA: The GBC goondas are always quoting you, saying we are claiming there has to be a ritivk? No, there has to be worship of the acharya, and this is open to ANYONE, they do not require a so-called ritvik system to manage them, especially since we barely have that system in place.
They are already quoting you about ritvik this and ritvik that! No, we have hundreds of people ALREADY worshiping the acharya without ANY so-called ritvik system, we have not yet implemented this system and may not make it wide scale for some time.
Rather these folks follow Madhu Pandit's "Srila Prabhupada acharya" system. That is the actual system, not the ritviks system, which is secondary and which is not always functioning properly. And in case the ritvik deviates, the Srila Prabhupada acharya system is ALWAYS the system we follow, no matter what!]
IT IS -NECESSARY- TO MAKE A VERY CLEAR DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE GOONS AND THOSE WHO FOLLOW JULY 9TH 1977 RITVIK SYSTEM. And Srila Prabhupada HAS done this as per July 9th 1977 Ritvik Order:
“RITVIK--REPRESENTATIVE OF THE ACARYA, FOR THE PURPOSE OF PERFORMING INITIATIONS, BOTH FIRST INITIATION AND SECOND INITIATION”.
It is THE RITVIK SYSTEM -- NO COMPROMISE!
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada!
“We request you to chant HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA, KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE, HARE RAMA HARE RAMA, RAMA RAMA HARE HARE, and your life will be sublime.”
[PADA: Srila Prabhupada never said that he has to be worshiped only under a ritvik system, he never made any initiations of any type mandatory. For starters, we do not have that system barely functioning at present. We need to tell people they are part of the Prabhupada acharya system, and they can worship the acharya with or WITHOUT a so-called ritvik system in place.
They are already quoting you about ritvik this and ritvik that! No, we have hundreds of people ALREADY worshiping the acharya without ANY so-called ritvik system, we have not yet implemented this system and may not make it wide scale for some time.
Rather these folks follow Madhu Pandit's "Srila Prabhupada acharya" system. That is the actual system, not the ritviks system, which is secondary and which is not always functioning properly. And in case the ritvik deviates, the Srila Prabhupada acharya system is ALWAYS the system we follow, no matter what!]
IT IS -NECESSARY- TO MAKE A VERY CLEAR DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE GOONS AND THOSE WHO FOLLOW JULY 9TH 1977 RITVIK SYSTEM. And Srila Prabhupada HAS done this as per July 9th 1977 Ritvik Order:
“RITVIK--REPRESENTATIVE OF THE ACARYA, FOR THE PURPOSE OF PERFORMING INITIATIONS, BOTH FIRST INITIATION AND SECOND INITIATION”.
It is THE RITVIK SYSTEM -- NO COMPROMISE!
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada!
“We request you to chant HARE KRISHNA HARE KRISHNA, KRISHNA KRISHNA HARE HARE, HARE RAMA HARE RAMA, RAMA RAMA HARE HARE, and your life will be sublime.”
[PADA: Srila Prabhupada never said that he has to be worshiped only under a ritvik system, he never made any initiations of any type mandatory. For starters, we do not have that system barely functioning at present. We need to tell people they are part of the Prabhupada acharya system, and they can worship the acharya with or WITHOUT a so-called ritvik system in place.
As for word jugglery, you are posting as "Prabhupadanuga," which means, you stole the term we used first in the early 1980s! And all sorts of our same pals came out then, and told me that our Prabhupadanuga title was bogus, when we first brought it out. Well sorry, it was gradually accepted and so will "Prabhupada acharya" be accepted. This sounds totally foolish, we are the Prabhupadanugas, but we are not the Prabhupada acharya followers?
Ritvik system is not absolutely required, many people will live their whole lives with or without that system, whereas ours and Madhu Pandit's "Srila Prabhupada is the acharya system" is not an option, it is the system. I am also not following anything blindly, you failed to address any of the points we originally presented. And you just made matters worse for yourself by posting on OUR coined term and Prabhupadanuga title, which is essentially the same title as Prabhupada acharya. You stole our own coined title, to tell us we cannot use our own titles? You are arguing with your own shadow. That's called word jugglery.
Anyway, since using the titles like Prabhupadanuga and Prabhupada acharya are bogus, and you are the number one person posting using the name you hijacked from PADA, namely Prabhupadanuga, you are at the top of the list of the people being totally bogus, according to -- yourself.
ys pd]
Anyway, since using the titles like Prabhupadanuga and Prabhupada acharya are bogus, and you are the number one person posting using the name you hijacked from PADA, namely Prabhupadanuga, you are at the top of the list of the people being totally bogus, according to -- yourself.
ys pd]
Right, Mahesh always posts under the term of Prabhupadanuga, which is interchangeable with Prabhupada acharya. He is attacking himself. As Srila Prabhupada says, a bona fide vaishnava will be happy when he see others are glorifying the acharya -- and they are making followers of the acharya -- others, they will object.
ReplyDeleteA factual vaishnava will be proud that others are saying they accept Prabhupada as their acharya. Correct. So yes, this is amazing, Mahesh says anyone who uses titles like Prabhupadanuga and Prabhupada acharya are bogus, but he is himself using these titles, because he has a special licence which no one else has?
This is what happened when we came up with the Prabhupadanuga title in the first place, same type folks attacked that name. Oh this is a concoction, nope, its a sum and substance designation, as is Prabhupada acharya. ys pd
Discussing this issue today with some ex-kulis who read the report above and related topics.
ReplyDeleteThey also are baffled, and cannot understand why the term "Prabhupadanuga" is 100% bona fide, while "Prabhupada acharya" is wrong, mental speculation and word juggling, when they see no actual substantial difference between these two terms?
And neither can we at PADA?
One of them said its like arguing if the term "USA" is a better term than "America," when both terms are pretty much saying the same thing? I agreed, tempest in a tea pot.
One of them suggested that sometimes certain devotees will come out with some out of bounds theory, to try to make themselves out to be "the only one who understood the point properly," to try to boost themselves up us as some sort of needed authority on these issues.
Then, no one can even figure out the actual point they are making because their presentation is too distorted, and all they do is create more confusion over nothing of substance. Again, I agreed.
They also thought it was hysterical that Mahesh has hijacked our term, Prabhupadanuga, saying that is fully authorized, but he does not agree with another term we approve of, namely Prabhupada acharya, when there really is no actual meaningful distinction between these two terms, since both mean -- the emphasis is on Srila Prabhupada as the acharya, just like "Praise Jesus" or "Surrender to Jesus" has about the same concept, and its splitting hairs to argue that one of these terms is bona fide and one is bogus, both are good.
They also agreed that given the history of the GBC's bogus gurus, the bogus Gaudiya Matha's gurus, and various bogus persons posing as so-called ritviks, and all sorts of other bogus kerfluffle going on left, right and center, PADA is right on to say that people should focus mainly on the acharya, and Madhu Pandit is correct to emphasize that aspect as well.
These ex-kulis also agreed with PADA, that as soon as we sue the GBC over the changed books, sue the GBC over the molesting in order to halt it, and / or help advise and document other lawsuits elsewhere to establish that Srila Prabhupada is the acharya, all these critics come out of the wood work to complain, but none of them can sue a can of beans. Its all noise and no action.
Anyway, they concluded, its better these issues emerge one way or other, and lets have it all come out in the wash. Heh heh heh! ys pd
Yes right prabhu, the GBC is spending $20M suing Bangalore, because according to Mahesh, Bangalore is compromised with the GBC. Why would someone spend $20M suing people -- they basically agree with? Who spends that amount of cash fighting a person they are "compromised" with?
ReplyDeleteThis makes no sense whatever. OK normal common sense tells us, Bangalore does not agree with the GBC. But you are right, they are not spending 20 cents suing Mahesh! ys pd
PADA: Ok so the GBC is spending $20,000,000 suing Bangalore, all because, Bangalore is compromised with the GBC and there is no need for a lawsuit? And Bangalore does not accept the ritvik program, so this $20M is all being wasted on nothing? Really!
ReplyDeleteWhat am I missing here? Meanwhile, Madhu Pandit says on various videos, and in written documents, and in court documents, that he does accept the ritvik program?
Is someone not paying any attention to what is going on here? There is a lawsuit, there are videos, there are documents, there are ritvik programs and initiations going on, but the Bangalore people are compromised and they do not accept the ritvik program?
Can someone start paying attention here? This lawsuit has been going on since around 1997, when Madhu Pandit and Adridharana made a public written statement on this matter (which we published at the time) and they started the lawsuit with a public declaration that they are going to adopt the ritvik program aka Prabhupadanuga program aka Prabhupada acharya program?
But agreed, MPD also says what PADA says -- its a mistake to call ourselves the ritviks as our main title and theme, correct, we should call ourselves the Prabhupada devotees as our main theme. MDP and Adridharana made a huge document around 1998 that was posted all over the place, declaring that they are adopting the July 9th letter etc. Where have all these people been hiding that they are not aware of all this? ys pd
http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2017/02/madhu-pandit-i-did-not-manufacture.html
Now Mahesh says only Madhu Pandit can speak about this, but he already has, he made a video about how he is implementing the July 9th letter, and another video on how he is applying the ritvik system etc. Why is Mahesh not even studying the issue?
ReplyDeleteWorse! Why is Mahesh opposed to anyone who implements the July 9th letter and the ritvik system? If you guys do not want the system implemented, just say so!
Madhu Pandit is a busy guy, he has no time to waste arguing if the term Prabhupadanuga is bona fide and the term Prabhupada acharya system is bogus, its foolishness, and he has no time to waste on such hair splitting foolish matters because he is busy implementing the orders of the acharya.
He is also engaged in litigation, he cannot be engaged in endless hair splitting diatribes which might be used legally in court. He is right not to engage in this hair splitting foolishness. As one devotee said, these critics have too much time on their hands, because they are not doing what Bangalore is doing, i.e. getting things done. ys pd
Puranjana Prabhu:….” Well sorry, it was gradually accepted and so will “Prabhupada acharya” be accepted.”
ReplyDeleteMahesh: Srila Prabhupada is not only the Acarya. Srila Prabhupada is the founder AND Acarya of ISKCON you can see the FRONT of any of his books -- FACT! Is this not obvious? Why say “Prabhupada acharya” be accepted.?
PADA: So when Madhu PAndit forms initiation ceremonies, who do you think the people being initiated there are accepting as their acharya? Can you name this alleged other acharya if it is not Srila Prabhupada? And if they are not following the July 9th letter etc, what order are they following there?
Or is this all a giant kerfuffle over nothing?
Please name the other guru that is being accepted at Bangalore if it's not Srila Prabhupada? And provide us with chapter and verse evidence that another guru is being promoted there other than Srila Prabhupada? Can you actually provide us with any evidence? And send it to me if you have it angel108b@yahoo.com.
I have so far not seen any evidence that any other guru is being promoted there, nor are the new initiated people accepting another guru because we know some of them, and they are worshiping Prabhupada AS THEIR ACHARYA. Sunnyvale also worships Prabhupada, as we see in person. Why are you saying they have compromised with the GBC, which means, you are saying worship of Prabhupada is a compromise with the GBC? Why would you say such a thing? Please provide proof that they are worshiping another acharya? I have seen so far ZERO from you. He said we should not call ourselves the ritviks, that it what I said for decades, we should be known as the Prabhupadanugas and not "the ritviks." That is a mistake.
ys pd]