Tripurari Swami's "figurative and not factual" idea

[PADA: The Vedic descriptions, like the ocean of milk, are figurarive and not factual? Not sure where we are going with these ideas? Unfortunately Tripurari also says that Srila Prabhupada's idea that we all originated with Krishna in His leeela or sport is also basically -- figurative and not factual. OK so where did we originate from, and how did we fall etc.? 

A few of the Tripurari-heads wrote to tell me we originated in Maha-Vishnu, nope, Srila Prabhupada says that is where we end up after we fall. Anyway, its also interesting that Tripurari swami says he agrees with Sridhara Maharaja, that acharyas are often deviants, and Jayadvaita swami agrees with that idea as well. So, on the main points, they agree, -- i.e. that acharyas are often falling into deviations. Maybe their acharyas are figurarative and not factual? 

Anyway this shows where some of the GBC are at these days, they are sort of working in league with these Gaudiya Matha folks more than they are working with the Prabhupadanuga folks. If we start to say the Vedic descriptions are figurative and not factual, the gurus are figurative, not factual and maybe they are a pack of GBC self-styled debauchee acharyas, then how do we know what is factual and what is figurative? 

Sridhara Maharaja also made some sexual predators into his acharyas, and so has the Jayadvaita program, begging the question, are these people even aware of what is a factual acharya or not? And why have these people promoted that we have to worship their figurative acharyas and not factual ones, and worse complained that we are bogus for our worship of the factual acharyas? Meanwhile, Jayadvaita is writing his thesis on the Bible, while saying Christians are bogus followers of the ritvik idea? Why is he studying the ritviks all day long, while claiming they are bogus? Are these guys peas in a PADA? 

ys pd]  

Tripurari swami: received the following endorsement for Sacred Preface from Jayadvaita Swami accompanied by further comments. His comments and my response to them are included below along with his endorsement.

Dear Tripurari Maharaja, obeisances.

I finished reading "Sacred Preface" about a week or so back. It engaged my time well. A substantial contribution.

Here's an endorsement for you:

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Swami Tripurari's "Sacred Preface" is an ambitious, learned, thought-provoking study of the introductory verses to "Sri Caitanya Caritamrta," the theological and philosophical 16th-century masterwork recounting the life and teachings of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Swami Tripurari, while staying well grounded in tradition, explores these verses in his own bold way, at turns informative, analytical, rasika, bellicose, and poetic. He probes the verses deeply, bringing these 16th-century verses into discourse -- and sometimes into battle -- with the ideas, attitudes, and aspirations that influence intellectuals, spiritual seekers, and the followers of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu today.

--Jayadvaita Swami, Author of "Vanity Karma: Ecclesiastes, the Bhagavad-gita and the meaning of life"

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In this book, as with your Bhagavad-gita, I was especially intrigued by seeing the various strategies you used for reaching out to your readers. All in all: well done.

I wondered, at points, when you went so far as to grant your reader the notion that things we usually take literally are figurative: "The figurative milk ocean" and a few more like that. I have no problem with that, but I could imagine our Srila Prabhupada objecting, "No, it is a fact!" So I think you're more daring than I am.

I like how you allowed yourself to move from topics of deep rasika tattva to scientific issues of consciousness as a basic component of reality. The book has a broad scope.

Again, I found your book instructive and worthwhile. I learned from it. Thank you again. Hoping this finds you in good health.

Your servant,
Jayadvaita
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My reply and further explanation:

Swamiji,

Thank you for your endorsement and comments. Very much appreciated. If only I had similar, thoughtful feedback with other senior Vaisnavas. That to me is the need of the hour—such exchanges between thoughtful Vaisnavas that cross sectarian boundaries while keeping them in tact for other spiritually healthy reasons.

Regarding my daring and figurative oceans of milk, etc., my perspective is that such oceans of milk and so on are ways of talking about realities that transcend explanation. The words themselves are indicators of that which they speak of—a land of affection in this case with cows and their milk representing that affection. In other words, they speak about something more than oceans of milk, not something less, such as nirvisesa Brahman.

Thakura Bhaktivinode used the term “nirdarsan" to refer to such word usage. As long as the ground of our perspective is acintya bhedabheda, non literal approaches do not present the problem that they do in Advaitavada. Furthermore they free the mind from the limiting sense that literal oceans of milk may bring up for some. The real world is the subjective, meditative world. There are oceans of milk there that so called actual or real oceans of milk from the objective, physical world could never do justice to. Someone once asked me if there was any real sex in Goloka. I replied that there is no real sex in the material world.

Different approaches will be fruitful in different times. I believe the approach of Bhaktivinode needs to come back around. What would Prabhupada say? One thing that Prabhupada said was that his grandchildren were joining but not his children. About this shortcoming he lamented. We do not remain grand children in any other realm of thought and practice, and we should similarly offer our grown up input to His Divine Grace. He wished we had been able to do so earlier on.

O! To be with him now, kota vane chutachuti vane kai lutaputi se din kabe habe mor!

With affection,
swami bv tripurari