Krishnapriya dd: I see Krishna's plan unfolding like this: the original ISKCON [with DOM] is ISKCON INC. now revived by Lond Island Temple, New York. Prabhupadanugas are to unite within this framework of ISKCON INC. We welcome any existing centre, who want to be part of ORIGINAL ISKCON, PRABHUPADA'S ISKCON. And those who do not they can remain with the bogus GBC ISKCON. We have learned enough theoretically about the ritvik order of Our Gurudeva. Now is time to preach. In every city, every town, every village - the aim should be to get minimum 3 devotees, who will get the ball rolling.
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When a son who is a rascal leaves his father and goes loitering in the street, with no food and no shelter, and suffers very much, the father is always anxious to bring the boy back home. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the supreme father, and all the living entities within this material world are exactly like misled children of a wealthy man who have left home to loiter in the street. Therefore the greatest benefit one can bestow upon one’s fellow human being is to give him Kṛṣṇa consciousness. No kind of material profit will satisfy the living entity, but if he is given Kṛṣṇa consciousness he will actually be satisfied.
This is under legal advise of multiple attorneys. If anyone has any tangible, legal basis of concern, then they can bring it up privately to me. An affiliation is a voluntary step by an affiliate to associate. As it is voluntary, it is not legally binding, nor is affiliate legal effected by what happens to affiliant. If in the most unlikely scenario that ISKCON, Inc. looses the case in the next 3-4-5 years, then affiliates can just disaffiliate with one resolution of theirs, and go about their business. At least by that time, multiple steps would have been taken to make ISKCON Constitution and uplift all combinedly, we would have learned how to work together, all of us around the world, which we are not able to do now anyway.
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PD: Thanks for the confirmation Nimai Pandit prabhu. Right, my point exactly, "We are advising potential affiliates not to say we are ISKCON." That is what I have been saying all along, we cannot advertise we are ISKCON until we clear this with proper legal channels. This is a confirmation of my original point which some folks just do not seem to comprehend, we cannot advertise people to do illegal things like using the name of a charity without proper authorization. Its all "provisional" until its cleared legally, that is what I have said all along for the past 35 years. ys pd
Nimai Pandit dasa: Another section from the draft is: "We understand that our name ":........" will be added to ISKCON, Inc.'s "Centers lists around the World", and hereby consent to such addition." This is another way all can be "ISKCON" and not directly ISKCON too. At least for new comers and others a list of centers affiliated to ISKCON, Inc. would make local centers look more authentic, formal and part of Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON rather than upstart lonely outposts. Maybe this center list can be printed in the back of books printed by Veda Guhya Prabhu. That would give more enthusiasm for book distributors to distribute the books knowing they can approach 50 or so centers of ISKCON, Inc. around the world if they are interested more. A combined effort in that regard of all the centers may make KBI more enthusiastic to print more. So many languages are there in which the books are not translated by even BBT. Veda Guhya Prabhu, whatever is said here about his decision to initiate, no one can doubt his commitment to print the highest quality of original books which all of us have benefited from last 10+ years. Hence coming together formally may help book production, distribution and help to newcomers too.
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PD: If there are parallel programs (a) The independent Prabhupadanugas, and their centers, their home programs, their many web sites, and their families and affiliates etc., and (b) some nice people who agree with us inside corporate official ISKCON, then certainly we are fixing ISKCON from both inside and out?
We are thus collectively bringing the right ideas inside ISKCON, maybe through the front door -- if we can, but if we are blocked, then we will use the side door, back door, attic window, wherever else we can. Some devotees who live in official ISKCON temples have told me for years now: they agree with us. HENCE: they are offering their bhogha to Srila Prabhupada, they read only the original books, and they are fully cognizant the GBC guru system is corrupt. So they are Prabhupadanugas, perhaps like those who were serving Kamsa, but were worshipping Krishna as we see in the Krishna book. Thats all fine as far as I can see?
For example, some devotees I know go out on samkirtana and then rent computers at coffee shops and read our web sites and talk to us. OK they are inside corporate ISKCON, but they like us. So what does it matter where they are, they are agreeing with the right ideas? That is all that matters as far as I can see. I am not in favor of making a clear line, you have to be in or out, we need allies everywhere, both in and out. And we have some both in and out, thus we need more in both areas, thats all.
So we are fixing ISKCON in all respects. As for the ISKCON Long Island case, we probably need to get this finalized in court first. Then we can depute people to act as their agents in different areas. We are hoping for the best in court, lets see what happens. As for the idea of our making our own independent GBC and managerial system etc. as was stated in the DOM and many other related letters and conversations regarding the formation of a GBC and so on, right, but the fact is that this system cannot be implemented unless it is adopted by us, the worldwide network of Prabhupadanugas. This is what we said all along, all of these documents need to be implemented by our Prabhupadanuga group, because our group is the only group that can do anything at this point. And I am willing to help coordinate this as much as possible, and always have been.
Anyway, we are making progress on many fronts and eventually, as we get enough members and supporters, a managerial system will come about in due course. Srila Prabhupada showed us the path, he concentrated first on gaining support, then later he discussed management. As Srila Prabhupada says -- more than once, preach first, and then management will follow like a shadow. ys pd
We are thus collectively bringing the right ideas inside ISKCON, maybe through the front door -- if we can, but if we are blocked, then we will use the side door, back door, attic window, wherever else we can. Some devotees who live in official ISKCON temples have told me for years now: they agree with us. HENCE: they are offering their bhogha to Srila Prabhupada, they read only the original books, and they are fully cognizant the GBC guru system is corrupt. So they are Prabhupadanugas, perhaps like those who were serving Kamsa, but were worshipping Krishna as we see in the Krishna book. Thats all fine as far as I can see?
For example, some devotees I know go out on samkirtana and then rent computers at coffee shops and read our web sites and talk to us. OK they are inside corporate ISKCON, but they like us. So what does it matter where they are, they are agreeing with the right ideas? That is all that matters as far as I can see. I am not in favor of making a clear line, you have to be in or out, we need allies everywhere, both in and out. And we have some both in and out, thus we need more in both areas, thats all.
So we are fixing ISKCON in all respects. As for the ISKCON Long Island case, we probably need to get this finalized in court first. Then we can depute people to act as their agents in different areas. We are hoping for the best in court, lets see what happens. As for the idea of our making our own independent GBC and managerial system etc. as was stated in the DOM and many other related letters and conversations regarding the formation of a GBC and so on, right, but the fact is that this system cannot be implemented unless it is adopted by us, the worldwide network of Prabhupadanugas. This is what we said all along, all of these documents need to be implemented by our Prabhupadanuga group, because our group is the only group that can do anything at this point. And I am willing to help coordinate this as much as possible, and always have been.
Anyway, we are making progress on many fronts and eventually, as we get enough members and supporters, a managerial system will come about in due course. Srila Prabhupada showed us the path, he concentrated first on gaining support, then later he discussed management. As Srila Prabhupada says -- more than once, preach first, and then management will follow like a shadow. ys pd
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Nara Narayana dasa Vishvakarma: WHAT A 'LIMP' COMMITMENTLESS SUGGESTION! Here we are opening the door to TAKING OVER ISKCON FOR SRILA PRABHUPADA, and now comes Tim Lee, STILL TRYING TO OUTDO Srila Prabhupada by OPENING HIS OWN MOVEMENT, and taking away energy from the ...
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Krishnapriya dd: [PADA had said] ... So we are fixing ISKCON in all respects. As for the ISKCON Long Island case, we probably need to get this finalized in court first. I RESPECTFULL pray to differ here with your view: we cannot wait and should not wait for finalizing court case as GBC Iskcon will purposely delay things as far as possible. The way I see it is that ISKCON INC IS IN EXILE, just like the Pandavas were, after DURYODHANA USURPED INDRAPRASTHA. So, we have to get a shadow worldwide GBC within the Origianl ISKCON inc in place! That is no small job, but needs to be done. Why would Srila Prabhupda entrust HIS ISKCON to us, if we are not able to handle. Do we want to destroy ISKCON INC. as they have done with ISKCON. Srila Prabhupada allowed them to have something they called ISKCON as playground, where they could get all their material ambitions worked out and the results would be there for all to see. Let us learn our lesson from this and move forward in pure spiritual way.
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PD: Sorry, I cannot tell humble devotees who mostly have small temples and home programs and so on, to already start to use the official name of ISKCON without legal authorization? They will be sued. We already cannot barely afford these lawsuits (Madhu Pandit has spent about $15m so far) and this will be a burden on our small satelitte program's preaching.
I want to keep our people preaching and not burden them with million dollar lawsuits they cannot afford. That is also why I do not use the official name of ISKCON, its illegal. I am not encouraging illegal activity for anyone, and like I said, this will simply burden our people and they will have to stop their preaching and have to raise money for these lawsuits instead.
I am preaching and our affiliates are also preaching, instead of getting into hugely expensive lawsuits which almost none of us can afford at this time. If we get legal authorization to use ISKCON's name, that would be nice. I hope we can do that, but in the meantime we have to keep our preachers preaching. I have fully supported Madhu Pandit and the LI lawsuit as much as possible, and Madhu Pandit's program has been citing our web sites and so on as proof the GBC process is bogus. Our web sites are linked to his, so we are helping as much as we can, but not all of us can engage in these official lawsuits, its not practical for most of our devotees who are in humble material situations to raise huge amounts of money for legal activity.
So what I do for example is; I talked to two people yesterday for about three hours, one is living in an official ISKCON temple, one is living outside and visiting a temple, and I never bothered to ask either of them if they are part of ISKCON or not. That is not my main concern. I want them to become dedicated worshippers of Srila Prabhupada, because at the time of death that is all that is going to save them, not whether they were part of this official corporation or that.
Accepting Srila Prabhupada as their guru is the only thing that will save them in the end, in not only my opinion, but in the opinion of Krishna. He says "acharyam mam vijnaniyam." That is also basically what Martin Luther said, your love for the acharya Jesus is the only thing that will save you, whereas being part of the official church is not going to do that. Srila Prabhupada called these people "Churchianity."
And so he jettisoned himself from the Gaudiya Matha and preached independent, and so did we. He was a preacher and not a follower of any official institutions. At the same time, if the institution can be saved, ok, I will help and have helped. My web sites are being used all along by Madhu Pandit to help him fight the bogus GBC, but I am not going to stop all my other preaching and tell people to act illegally because that will hamper my preaching and theirs.
Srila Prabhupada did not use the name of the Gaudiya Matha because it was embroiled in lawsuits. He had other things to do. And of course his God brothers thought he was bogus for not using their official Gaudiya Matha name. So we did what he did, we just preached and did not bother if we had control of the corporation name or not. In any case we are followers of Lord Chaitanya, He says, invite people to your house and preach. Do something humble, and later you can make a big institution, ok fine, but begin at the beginning. So my help is already there, the people making lawsuits are using our sites and materials, I have been helping all along. Yet I need to do both things at once, keep both the preaching side and helping the lawsuit side simultaneously. Incidently, one of the people I was preaching to said, I am the only person he can confide in, my web sites have saved his life, and I am helping him greatly. So this program needs to continue as well. And if there is anything more that I can do to help the lawsuit side, I will do so. Just tell me what that is. ys pd
I want to keep our people preaching and not burden them with million dollar lawsuits they cannot afford. That is also why I do not use the official name of ISKCON, its illegal. I am not encouraging illegal activity for anyone, and like I said, this will simply burden our people and they will have to stop their preaching and have to raise money for these lawsuits instead.
I am preaching and our affiliates are also preaching, instead of getting into hugely expensive lawsuits which almost none of us can afford at this time. If we get legal authorization to use ISKCON's name, that would be nice. I hope we can do that, but in the meantime we have to keep our preachers preaching. I have fully supported Madhu Pandit and the LI lawsuit as much as possible, and Madhu Pandit's program has been citing our web sites and so on as proof the GBC process is bogus. Our web sites are linked to his, so we are helping as much as we can, but not all of us can engage in these official lawsuits, its not practical for most of our devotees who are in humble material situations to raise huge amounts of money for legal activity.
So what I do for example is; I talked to two people yesterday for about three hours, one is living in an official ISKCON temple, one is living outside and visiting a temple, and I never bothered to ask either of them if they are part of ISKCON or not. That is not my main concern. I want them to become dedicated worshippers of Srila Prabhupada, because at the time of death that is all that is going to save them, not whether they were part of this official corporation or that.
Accepting Srila Prabhupada as their guru is the only thing that will save them in the end, in not only my opinion, but in the opinion of Krishna. He says "acharyam mam vijnaniyam." That is also basically what Martin Luther said, your love for the acharya Jesus is the only thing that will save you, whereas being part of the official church is not going to do that. Srila Prabhupada called these people "Churchianity."
And so he jettisoned himself from the Gaudiya Matha and preached independent, and so did we. He was a preacher and not a follower of any official institutions. At the same time, if the institution can be saved, ok, I will help and have helped. My web sites are being used all along by Madhu Pandit to help him fight the bogus GBC, but I am not going to stop all my other preaching and tell people to act illegally because that will hamper my preaching and theirs.
Srila Prabhupada did not use the name of the Gaudiya Matha because it was embroiled in lawsuits. He had other things to do. And of course his God brothers thought he was bogus for not using their official Gaudiya Matha name. So we did what he did, we just preached and did not bother if we had control of the corporation name or not. In any case we are followers of Lord Chaitanya, He says, invite people to your house and preach. Do something humble, and later you can make a big institution, ok fine, but begin at the beginning. So my help is already there, the people making lawsuits are using our sites and materials, I have been helping all along. Yet I need to do both things at once, keep both the preaching side and helping the lawsuit side simultaneously. Incidently, one of the people I was preaching to said, I am the only person he can confide in, my web sites have saved his life, and I am helping him greatly. So this program needs to continue as well. And if there is anything more that I can do to help the lawsuit side, I will do so. Just tell me what that is. ys pd
PD: Srila Prabhupada: Kṛṣṇa is very much anxious to take us back home, back to Godhead, but we are stubborn and do not wish to go. Therefore He is always looking for the opportunity to take us back home. He is just like an affectionate father.
When a son who is a rascal leaves his father and goes loitering in the street, with no food and no shelter, and suffers very much, the father is always anxious to bring the boy back home. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the supreme father, and all the living entities within this material world are exactly like misled children of a wealthy man who have left home to loiter in the street. Therefore the greatest benefit one can bestow upon one’s fellow human being is to give him Kṛṣṇa consciousness. No kind of material profit will satisfy the living entity, but if he is given Kṛṣṇa consciousness he will actually be satisfied.
A bewildered boy loitering in the street may be reminded, “My dear boy, why are you suffering so much? You are the son of a very rich man who has so much property. Why are you loitering in the street?” And if he comes to understand, “Yes, I am the son of this important man. Why shall I loiter in the street?” he may then return home. Therefore the best service is to inform those who have forgotten Kṛṣṇa, “You are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. You are the son of Kṛṣṇa, who is full in all opulence. Why are you rotting in this material world?” This is the greatest service. Māyā, illusion, is very strong, but it is the duty of every devotee of Kṛṣṇa to try to enlighten everyone to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kuntīdevī, for example, first said that although Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Person, is within and without, to rascals and fools He is invisible. Therefore she points out, “Here is the Lord—Kṛṣṇa.”
Teachings of Queen Kunti
TQK 4: Approaching Krsna, the All-pervading Truth
Teachings of Queen Kunti
TQK 4: Approaching Krsna, the All-pervading Truth
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Nimai Pandit dasa: Which lawsuit, why? Why would anybody file lawsuits on affiliates? We are advising potential affiliates to not say we are ISKCON. Following is excerpt from the draft affiliation doc - "During this period of our provisional affiliation with ISKCON, Inc. we understand that we are permitted to add the following statement to our publications like websites, letterhead, visiting cards, etc.: "Affiliated with: International Society for Krishna Consciousness, Inc., ("ISKCON") NY (estd 1966). Founder & Acharya His Divine Grace A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada"
This is under legal advise of multiple attorneys. If anyone has any tangible, legal basis of concern, then they can bring it up privately to me. An affiliation is a voluntary step by an affiliate to associate. As it is voluntary, it is not legally binding, nor is affiliate legal effected by what happens to affiliant. If in the most unlikely scenario that ISKCON, Inc. looses the case in the next 3-4-5 years, then affiliates can just disaffiliate with one resolution of theirs, and go about their business. At least by that time, multiple steps would have been taken to make ISKCON Constitution and uplift all combinedly, we would have learned how to work together, all of us around the world, which we are not able to do now anyway.
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PD: Thanks for the confirmation Nimai Pandit prabhu. Right, my point exactly, "We are advising potential affiliates not to say we are ISKCON." That is what I have been saying all along, we cannot advertise we are ISKCON until we clear this with proper legal channels. This is a confirmation of my original point which some folks just do not seem to comprehend, we cannot advertise people to do illegal things like using the name of a charity without proper authorization. Its all "provisional" until its cleared legally, that is what I have said all along for the past 35 years. ys pd
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Nimai Pandit dasa: Another section from the draft is: "We understand that our name ":........" will be added to ISKCON, Inc.'s "Centers lists around the World", and hereby consent to such addition." This is another way all can be "ISKCON" and not directly ISKCON too. At least for new comers and others a list of centers affiliated to ISKCON, Inc. would make local centers look more authentic, formal and part of Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON rather than upstart lonely outposts. Maybe this center list can be printed in the back of books printed by Veda Guhya Prabhu. That would give more enthusiasm for book distributors to distribute the books knowing they can approach 50 or so centers of ISKCON, Inc. around the world if they are interested more. A combined effort in that regard of all the centers may make KBI more enthusiastic to print more. So many languages are there in which the books are not translated by even BBT. Veda Guhya Prabhu, whatever is said here about his decision to initiate, no one can doubt his commitment to print the highest quality of original books which all of us have benefited from last 10+ years. Hence coming together formally may help book production, distribution and help to newcomers too.
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PD: Fantastic, we support doing that. Lets start to compile this list of affiliates. Great idea. ys pd
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Nimai Pandit das: Gaurangasundar das is ISKCON, Inc.'s communication director so any one wants to know more about affiliation and other related things can chat with him. Thanks Puranjana Prabhu. Always count on you and grateful to you for multiple help and encouragement through the years. While Gauranga sundara dasa and others are working on affiliations, we also need to get a research / compilation for the
ISKCON Constitution. Hopefully within a week we will have an internet framework ready to start work on it. Yours and Yasoda Prabhu's active participation and guidance would be essential.
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PD: This is a good idea, we need to combine ideas together for the constitution. I also started a partial addresses list, lets all work together on getting it more organized.
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