Jayapataka swami: Women Guru Opponents: Kali Yuga Politicians

krishna1008: Jayapataka Implicated in Poison Complaint

Jayapataka is calling other GBC gurus:

"KALI YUGA POLITICIANS"

Which is what PADA said all along!

[PADA: Srila Prabhupada told us many, many times in India, we cannot even allow others to touch our feet. Why? We will be acting as (diksha) gurus and taking the karma of others. And we will get sick, fall down, or both. Srila Prabhupada also said -- if we take karma -- we will have to suffer. Many of the GBC's gurus died prematurely, or they suffered getting sick, falling down, numerous scandals, getting sued for mass child abuse, and many other reactions. 

Now Jayapataka is demanding that women also be allowed to be diksha gurus and take karma -- so the women will also suffer horrible reactions -- just as the men (like JPS) already are? As an added bonus, the women gurus will go to the most obnoxious regions after death, which is where false acharyas are going -- man or woman. 

Why are we trying to send some women to the most obnoxious regions, when all of these men are already on their way there. And when it comes to Jayapataka himself, who looks like he got hit head on by a giant Mack Truck, he is like the poster boy result for why -- conditioned souls -- should not think they are equals to Jesus and they can take sins like Jesus. They will have to suffer, and they are. And the women will also start to suffer the same way. We should not wish that suffering on anyone.

Pancaratna says the India temples will cut funding for the GBC's operations. Wow! That answers all sorts of prayers, no more funds for lawsuits and hit men to come and attack us devotees of God! Wonderful news!]

Basu Ghosh: Home Base: ISKCON BarodaCamp: 

ISKCON Baroda

Dear Jayapataka Maharaj,

Yatibhyonamaha. Jaya Srila Prabhupada!

Saw your message to Pancharatna Prabhu (Jaipur):

"Because the Indian GBCs knew that the Indian leaders of different temples, and so on, did not want Vaisnavi diksha guru, therefore, the GBC members proposed being this a culturally sensitive issue that Indian leaders could opt out of it, if they didn't like it. That was definitely in preference for the mood of the Indian leaders. However, you are saying that the GBC made a mistake. They didn't understand Srila Prabhupada's, they deviate. Therefore you reject them or don't want to have any formal connection."

Here is what the Bureau resolved on the matter of "opt out" in it's resolution adopted at Ahmedabad during November 2019:

"Whereas, the members of the Bureau feel that the GBC "resolution authorizing
female diksha gurus even on a regional basis will adversely affect ISKCON India. As devotees around the world treat ISKCON as one united institution and not compartmentally, with each area having it’s own systems of initiation. 

"So anyone who is initiated by a female guru outside of India cannot be denied as a bona fide initiated devotee within India. We wish to point out that ISKCON India has the most temples, the largest group of both fully dedicated and congregational devotees, and the most book distribution in the world. Moreover, we wish to point out that the vast majority of ISKCON’s congregation in the USA, Canada, UK, Australia, New Zealand, as well as to some extent in Western Europe, are Indians, and they naturally have a relationship with ISKCON in India".

(JPS) Maharaj, to my mind -- and sure, it's just my subjective opinion -- is that this adoption of "culturally sensitive" is just a smokescreen to try and fool the leaders of ISKCON India.

Most of us -- and sure, I am just voicing my own subjective opinion here -- understand that the Bureau's message to the GBC was "pooh-poohed", even
though a show-bottle dialogue with the Bureau was arranged by the GBC.

The fact is that the present majority -- including your holiness -- don't really care what the Bureau devotees resolved at Ahmedabad during 2019, and that too after hearing patiently Anuttama Prabhu's presentation to the ICC and the IIAC -- whereafter those bodies also passed resolutions expressing opposition to FDGs in ISKCON.

But it really doesn't matter what we write. You and the GBC majority want to have it your way. That's really the bottom line here.

Bhima Prabhu has written correctly. Even if you and the majority are correct in your views -- and I for one say you are NOT -- still the issue is so divisive that better sense ought to have prevailed so that this would not cause a rupture in ISKCON.

As Bhima Prabhu pointed out, when a similar situation arose during 1976, Srila Prabhupada overturned the GBC resolution that was causing the rift. Here, that is not the case.

Very sad day for ISKCON. But it is not a surprise, as Srila Prabhupada himself pointed out in his purport to CC Adi 12.8. As the cliche goes, "history repeats itself", or so it seems.

FDG as a rule is a concoction. In the very conversation the GBC resolution cites - the conversation between Srila Prabhupada and Prof. O'Connell at Toronto, Srila Prabhupada said:

"Yes. Jāhnavā devī was—Nityānanda’s wife. She became. If she is able to go
to the highest perfection of life, why it is not possible to become guru?
But, not so many. Actually one who has attained the perfection, she can
become guru."

Since none of us can fully guarantee who has "attained the perfection", why
should FDGs be introduced?

[PADA: We cannot guarantee if a woman has attained perfection, so women should not be made into diksha gurus. However, a group of men who have been falling into -- Vodka, drugs, porno, illicit sex with men, women and children, and maybe cats -- and left, right and center -- should be made into gurus. 

And that is why the counter claim is being made by various women that banning them from being diksha gurus is more proof of the GBC's misogyny problem. Of course -- if conditioned souls are going to be placed into the post of "accepting sins like Jesus" -- what difference would it make if they are male or female, since neither is qualified?]

Srila Prabhupada wrote in a letter:

“A person who is a liberated acharya and guru cannot commit any mistake, but there are persons who are less qualified or not liberated, but still can act as guru and acharya by strictly following the disciplic succession.”

[Srila Prabhupada’s letter to Janardan, 4-26-68]

[PADA: "Acting" as shiksha gurus, not acting as parampara / paramahamsa / Vishnupada acharyas. Of course in the Basu Ghosh program their "parampara gurus" are falling down left, right and center -- and are therefore not following hardly anything strictly, even for being on the level a ritvik (priest). Most of their gurus have failed to even keep the standards for a neophyte kanistha, never mind fully liberated guru.]

It seems pretty clear to myself -- again, my subjective opinion -- that at present most of us are indeed "less qualified or not liberated" -- and so the question of an FDG, doesn't arise.

[PADA: OK so their gurus are not liberated, that means they are not gurus, male or female is not the issue, correct.]

The rule -- stridharma -- is that women act as a support to men, not as sampradaya acharyas, which is the aim of the FDG resolution.

[PADA: They are making illicit sex / failing to keep the basic standards of a kanistha / deviants into sin-absorbing Jesus like acharyas, as long as they are men, it is acceptable. Why?]

Many of us feel that this FDG push is based on the Western liberal concept of egalitarianism, and not the teachings of Srila Prabhupada or vedic literature.

[PADA: So it is acceptable to have illicit sex with men, women and children gurus, as long as they are in men bodies?]

Our - the Bureau FDG dialogue team [Bhima Prabhu, Dayaram Prabhu, 
Devakinandan Prabhu and myself] suggestion to the GBC was that a group of
scholars reseach the issue, after the GBC withdraw their FDG resolution, and
in an open ended dialogue, attempt to reach a consensus.

[PADA: Why is the GBC always outsourcing their research to a group of scholars, evidently same group of scholars who endorses the GBC's illicit sex with men, women and children acharyas already? No ordinary citizen in the USA accepts that illicit sex deviants are sin absorbing Jesus like saints in a chain of gurus from God. Why not consult them?]  

By passing their FDG resolution last month, the GBC laid to rest that suggestion.

Srila Prabhupada said:

"Actually I have not given any of you sannyasa. But I am in a war with Maya,
the material energy, and I need leaders." He said, "It is called in wartime
- battlefield commission." There are no qualified leaders, but someone has
to lead the charge. So you take every fifth man. "You are now lieutenant of
the squad. He is really a private, but we make him lieutenant for the day
and he leads the charge." Then Prabhupada said, "It is to be understood that
you are not sufficiently equipped for this fight and most of you will go
down." [https://srilaprabhupadalila.org/read/3811]

To my mind, the present majority of GBC members by their actions are proving
these words of Srila Prabhupada to be the bitter truth. The fact is that the group that is intent of forcing FDG onto the movement have proven that they are unfit to lead the charge.

dasbhas,

Basu Ghosh Das

[PADA: OK so they are gurus, they are getting dictation from Krishna, but they are fools for not accepting the dictation of Basu Ghosh das? It looks like Basu Ghosh has made his own Frankenstein monster that he can no longer control. Since the guru is getting dictation from God, why would Basu Ghosh interfere in the first place? Unless he thinks he is God's superior?] 

JAYAPATAKA SWAMI: "My point was that this is basically maya, if you don't accept philosophically what the GBC says -- then challenge them for a debate -- that is what Basu Ghosh and others have been asking for. I definitely accept your feelings -- but you say "we feel" -- but feeling is not what Srila Prabhupada wanted. 

You are saying we will suspend our connection with the GBC, is that what Srila Prabhupada wanted? If you say that GBC made a philosophical deviation then that should be discussed. But if you say that is your feeling is that we shouldn't do this, then the feeling will not take any consideration. 

Time, place, and circumstances may be different for India and in the West, therefore the Indian yatra can opt-out. How is this not taking Indian leaders into consideration? This proposal was made by the Indian GBCs in consideration of the leaders in India. You are taking a step further. First, you said this is a philosophical deviation which certainly you have a right to ask, and for that, the SABHA is a representative body. 

Team | Sabha (iskconsabha.com)

[PADA: Yep, we made 100 men "Sin-absorbing equals to Jesus messiahs" and gurus who mostly got sick, fell down and died from taking karma. But we want to be equal to the women, we want them to also get sick, fall down and die from taking karma. See, we are equal to all! 

As Srila Prabhupada explains, false gurus may have to take birth as snakes -- because they take karma without authority. And the disciples -- not being freed of karma -- may take birth as ants -- so they can extract revenge on their bogus guru. 

And then the false guru (now a snake) runs over the anthill -- and is eaten alive by the (former disciple) ants -- because these false gurus cannot take karma. We already have that going on with the men, we need to expand that and have that also happening to women. Why should we only have men taking birth as snakes and being eaten alive by ants? That is not equal vision, we want everyone to suffer. Great job guys!]  

There are members there from Indian yatra and different yatras around the world. And you have your right to say that there is something wrong and bring it up in the SABHA and they can send it back to the GBC if they want. So it's not that you don't have any representation. 

The SABHA is a representative of Indian leaders and leaders around the world. But GBC is supposed to represent Srila Prabhupada. That's our duty. We are not a legislative body not supposed to represent the Indian leaders or any other leaders. But considering that the Indian leaders are against the principle of VDG, then they proposed that we make a culturally sensitive issue. Now how is this not taking into consideration the FEELINGS of the Indian leaders? 

If you say FEELINGS, taking that into consideration they have every right to opt-out. If you think that more things are needed, then you can suggest that cultural
sensitivity. You are allowed to propose different amendments. How you apply it, that matters in your country. If you say that the GBC is philosophically deviating then that should be debated and not that we shouldn't have any disagreement with the GBC. 

If you say the GBC has made a mistake, alright, see what that is and they can think how to revive that You have made a philosophical committee of IIAC, why not have them be a representative if you say that this is philosophical deviation?

If you say that you are feeling you don't want this, that feeling has been taken care of by cultural sensitivity resolution. So how do you say that the GBC of India didn't take it into consideration? For one year, the GBC body engaged in debate in discussion and mediation with the Indian leaders with the Bureau members. 

And two dropped out and were asked to add more members but our request was not heard. Finally, after one year of hearing, understanding that this is not their desire, we passed the resolution, cultural sensitivity in reference to the Indian request. 

Of course in the west, they have different viewpoint. They feel that Vaisnavis who are qualified should be allowed. Now we have to manage a worldwide movement.
We can't just please one side and neglect another. So, what we thought was okay we have cultural sensitivity since Indian country is culturally against these things. That was our response.  

Saying that you want to suspend your relation with the GBC and so on is not reasonable. It's not what Srila Prabhupada wanted. I am sorry that I don't really consider you as a junior devotee, I think you are a sincere follower of Srila Prabhupada. 

So please show where Srila Prabhupada said that with the GBC, we should behave in this sense of coming out from all the connections. Is that what Srila Prabhupada wanted? So if you say it is philosophical deviation then you have your committee. In any case, a disciple has a right to ask his guru any question about philosophy. The guru has to answer stating sadhu, sastra and guru evidence. So you have every right to enquire to the GBC if you have a philosophical doubt. 

But just to declare it as rebellion or non-cooperation - that's political. That's not philosophical, that is what Srila Prabhupada warned us, we cannot be destroyed from outside. But inside if we do politics then we can be destroyed.

Now Rasaraj Prabhu, in the bureau discussions he said about the MDG, male diksa guru, it is a joke or something like that. I don’t want to put words in his mouth, but he said that the bar is too low and we should raise the bar, we should see that our male diksa gurus are actually qualified. 

[PADA: Yep, making bogus male guru who are failing left, right and center is a joke. Of course the victims are crying and not laughing at their joke.] 

Then if we have that standard fixed -- then naturally the ladies, the Vaisnavis they would be possibly less. But since we have ladies in India there are some who are members of Sabha, there are some chief Ministers, previously there was a Prime minister. On political levels they are vocal, you see that there are many doctors who are also ladies, they are very vocal. We see in business a lot of ladies are there.

So why don't we have some ladies who are Krsna conscious, who knows the science of Krsna, be gurus?! In any case, every lady, as already admitted by your colleagues, they are siksa gurus they teach their children, with acumen. So being siksa gurus they can go back to Godhead and many have. So
some women of our parampara were diska gurus like Jahnava mata , Gangamata Goswamini and others.

So, suddenly you are saying that this is philosophical deviation. So alright! Prove it! Otherwise, to declare a kind of political rebellion, it is not Krsna conscious, I am sorry to say but if you are going to rebel against GBC then if all the devotees in your temple rebel against you, is that bona- fide? We have to have certain boundaries for that. You have every right to question any decision, but you don’t have the right to rebel.

Hope this finds you in good health.

Your servant,
Jayapataka Swami.

JPS/hdcdb

Jayapataka's Sannyasa Disciple BVKS

On Sat, Jan 1, 2022 at 12:18 PM Pancaratna Dasa <pancaratnadas@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Jayapataka Swami
PAMHO. AGTSP.

While I understand the GBC will not like us to have a different veiw from them, either philosophically or politically, but is that the question.

Our comment is, how is it that the India GBC to not have to represent the mood of the Indian Yatra. If our own GBC only represent themselves then who represents us, no one.

If this is the GBC policy I feel it will only create confusion and resentment. Devotees will think, why are we working so hard on the front lines and no one cares what we think. No one even tries to make us understand.

The mood seems to be, Indian leaders should just blindly co-operate with the GBC and all will be fine. They should understand that the GBC is the UMA and doesn't have to co-ooerate with the Indian Leaders.

Therefore we are, where we are today, in this unfortunate position where junior devotees like me feel the need to write to such senior devotees like yourself.

Your servant pancaratna dasa

On Sat, 1 Jan 2022, 11:49 Jayapataka Swami, <jpsmobile@gmail.com> wrote:

My dear IIAC members,

Please accept my humble obeisances and best wishes as applicable.
All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Written from my home base: Sri Mayapur Candrodaya Mandir

You are saying that the GBC has misinterpreted Śrīla Prabhupāda’s teachings and that "the current introduction of FDG is divisive, deviant and a misrepresentation of Srila Prabhupada’s teachings". In fact, your response to that is political. 

You say the deviation is philosophical, at the same time your response is political. You want to divide ISKCON. The GBC is not dividing, you are dividing. So, have your philosophical committee debate and challenge the GBC to assign panditas to debate, you are saying all political things. 

That means you don’t have any philosophical basis, you are just saying don’t pay fees, don’t accept the GBC, obviously, the GBC has made a study of the issue and for one year they have been having a dialogue listening every week to the Bureau representatives, even two dropped out, we tried to bring in two added but that was not entertained and they finally we made this proposal. 

Now you are saying that it is not culturally sensitive, it is a philosophical issue. So then, challenge the GBC to send some pandits to debate and assign a referee to decide which side has stronger arguments. Why do you entertain political response? No cooperation, no acceptance of the GBC, if your point is philosophical, then state that.

You have your committee, it should be discussed with the committee. But by going this political way, you are acting under the influence of Kali-yuga not trying to solve the problem. Lord Caitanya said that for philosophical issues we should not be lazy, so if you are stating that the GBC made a philosophical mistake, then state that. And then it can be debated on.

Hope this finds you in good health.
Yours in service,
Jayapataka Swami.
JPS/hdcdb

On Fri, 31 Dec 2021, 05:50 Pancaratna Dasa (pancaratnadas@gmail.com), <

Dear Maharajas and Prabhus.

As you well know the ICC body have shown their almost unanimous rejection of the recent amended FDG resolution. The ICC have submitted a proposal to the Bureau requesting for non cooperation with the GBC.

Understanding that mood the IIAC EC feel that the IIAC body should show our
support. Therefore we have drafted the following proposal.

The time is very short as Bureau will meet on 3rd of January. So we have only today, 31st and tomorrow,1st for discussion and on 2nd we will call for conference vote.

This is very important and will have repercussions for our society on a global level so please take it very seriously and give your input and vote on 2nd.

Your servants
IIAC EC.
PROPOSAL.

Whereas the IIAC members feel that the recent resolution on FDG from the ICC has many merits and agrees in principle with mood of that resolution.

Whereas the IIAC recognises that the vast majority of ICC members are
extremely upset with this resolution, Whereas the IIAC is also unhappy that the Indian GBC have chosen to represent their own views over the mood of the Indian Yatra as a whole.

Whereas the IIAC agrees that the current introduction of FDG is divisive, deviant and a misrepresentation of Srila Prabhupada’s teachings. Whereas the IIAC does not support having parallel standards on such an important issue as initiation and specifically FDG and therefore rejects the resolution.

Whereas the IIAC disagrees that this is a Culturally Sensitive issue, but in fact it is a core value of our society, as is vegetarianism. Therefore it is resolved:

That considering the division within the society and the lack of satisfactory direction from the GBC the members of the IIAC request the Bureau to suspend active relations with the GBC body, 

That with immediate effect, payment of GBC fees, GBC meetings in India, support of GBC related seminars such as hermunetics and ILS etc, should be suspended forthwith,