Friday, June 29, 2018

Sridhara / Narayan / Gaura Govinda / Incomplete understanding

[PADA: When discussing the original status of us jeeva souls with followers of Sridhara Maharaja / Narayan Maharaja / Gaura Govinda Maharaja and others, they keep insisting that we did not originate in Krishna's leela with Krishna. Sridhara Maharaja for example says we originated in brahman. 

Unfortunately, this is tinged mayavada philosophy. We are persons, Krishna is a person, and everything has a personal basis. We have a personal connection to Krishna originally, and we dropped that connection. These mayavada tinged people have no good explanation for how the jeevas fall into the material world. Anyway, here Srila Prabhupada shows some of the major defects of the mayavada's ideas (or those who are compromised with the mayavada's ideas):] 

Harikesa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what's the difference between a Brahmavadi and a Mayavadī?
Prabhupada: That you already questioned. We answered.
Harikesa: I did?
Prabhupada: Yes. [break] ...vadi means those who are aspiring to merge into the impersonal Brahman effulgence.
Harikesa: And Mayavadis, they do not attain that impersonal realization?
Prabhupada: Mayavadis remain fools forever.
Harikesa: They never leave this material platform.
Prabhupada: They do not know. They have no knowledge. Avisuddha-buddhayah [SB 10.2.32], always impure. Otherwise how they are thinking, so 'ham: "I am same. I am God. I am moving the sun, I am..." Such rascals, they remain always in ignorance. [break] sense that "If I am the same, then why I have fallen down in this maya?" They say, "It is my lila. I have become dog. So it is my lila. I have become hog. It is my lila." (laughs) This is their philosophy. Hare Krsna. [break] Mayavada. They are fools, mūḍha. Mayayapahrta-jnana. They are described in the Bhagavad-gita. Mayavadī means mayayapahrta-jnana: "Their knowledge has been taken away by maya." Fools. Either you call them fool or call them lowest of the mankind or the most sinful, whatever way you can call, they are like that. All good qualifications. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu has warned, mayavadī-bhasya sunile haya sarva-nasa: [Cc. Madhya 6.169] "If you hear from Mayavadi, then your spiritual life is finished." It's so dangerous.
Harikesa: The Brahmavadis have some possibility of advancement?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Harikesa: What is that thing that enables them to advance?
Prabhupada: That you will know later on. First of all try to understand this. Don't try to understand everything in a moment. That is foolishness. [break] That argument is clear?
Ambarisa: Yes.
Prabhupada: No, no. Spirit soul is changing machine. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gita. So when this machine is finished, and another machine.
Ambarisa: The old machine continues to change after the spirit soul leaves, it deteriorates? The old machine deterior..., it breaks down.
Prabhupada: Yes, yes. You give up one machine and you take another machine. [break]
Devotee (1): goes into a subtle machine?
Prabhupada: That example is given, vasamsi jirnani yatha vihaya [Bg. 2.22]. Just like your dress, when it is useless, you throw it away and take another dress. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Vasamsi jirnani yatha vihaya grhnati narah aparani. You accept another set of dress. Clearly explained. [break] ...also very scientific.Just like according to your last life's desires, you have got this dress, this body. So it is going on, going on, going on. Now you are creating another set of desires in this life. So you require a different dress. Then you begin another satisfaction of your desires. This is going on. Karmana daiva-netrena: [SB 3.31.1] by your karma, you are creating a situation. Just like the criminal, he has created a situation; he cannot live anymore outside the jail. "Come on, here." He will go in automatically. So they do not know how nature is working. It is clearly said, prakrteh kriyamanani [Bg. 3.27]. "Nature is working, and that nature is working," mayadhyaksena [Bg. 9.10], "under My superintendence." Everything is there. Mayadhyakseṇa prakrtih suyate sa-caracaram. Jagat, it is changing, always changing. How it is changing? Under the direction of God. Mayadhyakseṇa.
Devotee (1): Only Krsna is doing everything then.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Krsna is not like you that when you are given some business, you become embarrassed. That is the difference between Krsna and you. He never becomes embarrassed.
Devotee (1): Srila Prabhupada, is it true that our advancement in devotional services... Is it influenced a lot by our past karma, how many sinful activities we have committed?
Prabhupada: No, no, no. Bhakti is not under karma. Bhakti is under your good will. If you accept to surrender to Krsna, you can do that without being checked by anything else. Simply you have to will, "Yes, Krsna. You are asking me. So long I did not do. From this day I do." That will depend upon you.
Devotee (2): Not that if I was more sinful, I would make less advancement than somebody who is more pious.
Prabhupada: Whatever you may be, simply surrender and everything is finished. Aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayis... [Bg. 18.66]. Even if you are sinful, Krsna will give you release, "All right. You have surrendered. That's all right." That is wanted. If you reserve something and cheat Krsna, "Now I am surrendering," Krsna is very intelligent. "You have still reservation. No." [break]
Devotee (1):'s easier to surrender to Krsna.
Prabhupāda: Yes, in sattva-guṇa one can see, one can understand his position. [break]
Devotee (2): Does he experience the miseries of the gross body when he's in sattva-guna, in the mode of goodness? Does he experience hunger and thirst, those things like that?
Prabhupada: Gross body means no hunger?
Devotee (2): When a person's in sattva-guṇa, he's not so much feeling the pain...
Prabhupāda: He is not disturbed by the rajo-guna, tamo-guna. That is sattva-guna. Nasta-prayesv abhadresu [SB 1.2.18]. He can be disturbed by rajo-guṇa, tamo-guna, but when he is in sattva-guna, he is not so much disturbed. And if he increase and go to the pure sattva-guṇa, suddha-sattva, then he is no more disturbed. At that time he can understand what is God. [break] are strongly situated in sattva-guna, the other base qualities cannot disturb you. Tada rajas-tamo-bhavah kama-lobhadayas ca ye [SB 1.2.19]. Other guna means lusty desires and greediness. This thing will be finished when you are strongly situated in sattva-guna. Then you go advance more and more. [break] ...hear about Krsna, to chant about Krsna, means cleansing, cleansing the dirty things of rajo-guna and tamo-guna. [break] is going on on rajo-guna and tamo-guna. Very minute quantity of population are by sattva-guṇa.
Brahmananda: Perhaps only in India will you find people in...
Prabhupada: Yes, some. That is also deteriorating. [break] The sattva-guṇa... the Mayavadī, they are also supposed to be in sattva-guna, but mixed with rajo-guna, tamo-guna. Therefore not pure.
Devotee (2): You were saying that when one is in the mode of goodness, that he is on the mental platform?
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Devotee (2): Does that mean that he's not... He's experiencing the subtle body inside of the gross body, or what does that mean exactly?
Prabhupada: Mental platform is mixed sattva-guna, rajo-guna, not pure. But if you keep always Krsna in your mind, then you are purified. The mind has no other opportunity to keep anything else. Krsna is sitting there, then guarantee. [break] ...they keep always seeing Visnu form within the heart. Therefore they keep in sattva-guṇa. Similarly, if you keep Krsna, then you are in sattva-guna. And when that concentration on Krsna is not disturbed, then it is suddha-sattva. That is spiritual platform. [break] ...ekadasī?
Nitai: It's Saturday, the 6th.
Devotee (2): What does the yogi perceive when he cuts off the outer senses, he finally reaches the...
Prabhupada: Perceive?
Devotee (2): What does he experience when he cuts off the outer senses and is able to...
Prabhupada: Outer senses, what do you mean by outer senses-dead?
Devotee (2): His bodily senses.
Prabhupada: There is no question of outer senses. Senses purified. What do you mean by outer senses?
Devotee (2): The senses with which you perceive the outer gross...
Prabhupada: That always remains. But when it is not purified, you perceive material things. When it is purified, you perceive spiritual things.
Devotee (2): So the same gross senses will be able to see spiritual things.
Prabhupada: Yes, it is purified. Bhakti is the purifying process. I have already said. Not that the eyes are suffering from cataract disease, "Pluck out." That is Mayavadī philosophy.
Devotee (2): What does that mean, then, when the yogis withdraw their senses from the objects like it says like the tortoise withdraws his limbs within the shell? What does that refer to then?
Prabhupada: Hm? What is that? I do not follow.
Brahmananda: He asks, in the yoga system...
Prabhupada: Yoga system means always see Supersoul; that is real yoga system. Perfection. Dhyanavasthita-tad-gatena manasa pasyanti yam yoginaḥ [SB 12.13.1]. Yoginah, being meditating and seeing the Supersoul, this is yoga. Not that he does not see. He is seeing Supersoul. He is seeing nothing else.
Devotee (1): He doesn't see the Supersoul with the gross senses, though, does he?
Prabhupada: Pure senses. He does not... Impure senses and pure senses.
Devotee (2): How can you tell when your senses are getting purified?
Prabhupada: You will understand Krsna more and more. So long your senses are not purified, you will not understand clearly what is Krsna. [break] ...understanding Krsna means detestful to the material world, attached to Krsna. Bhaktih paresanubhavah viraktir anyatra syat. [break]
Devotee (2): Is it true that eventually by this process we'll become purified so we can become like sruti-dharas?
Prabhupada: That you will see when you become purified.
Devotee (2): Then we will actually attain that condition, then.
Prabhupada: Try to become purified. Don't imagine and guess, "What will be the condition when I am purified?" This is all nonsense. Try to become purified.
Devotee (2): Then you perceive it.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: You tell the story of the potter. He has many pots. (Prabhupada laughs) And he tries to imagine what it will be like when he becomes very wealthy.
Prabhupada: That is nonsense, waste time. [break] are eating you will understand yourself, "Yes, I am eating, I am getting strength, I am getting satisfaction." But simply theory..., "What will happen after eating? What will happen?" You eat and you see what is happening. What is the use of asking this question? You eat and you will understand. [break]
Brahmananda: ...Harrison, he wrote in his preface that "The proof of the pudding is in the eating."
Prabhupāda: Yes.

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