Reply to Makanchora and Purujit (BLISS)
BY: VIDURA MAHATMA DAS
25 JUNE, 2018
I’m going to spare readers the headache of having to go through a trivial chain of replies-to-replies and try to briefly present the core arguments presented by BLISS, which they have basically reiterated in various ways throughout their reply.
BLISS’ words in quotations.
Srila Prabhupada’s Gita 1972 is not authorized?
“So, Prabhupada authorizes Hayagriva to put his own thoughts into his books? Or to omit Srila Prabhupada objections to the so-called moon-landing? These are just a few examples of very obvious differences from the original manuscripts or in this case dictation tapes in Hayagriva’s edition. How are these particular changes authorized by Srila Prabhupada?”
BLISS has the authorized Gita?
“The editorial change by Purujit Prabhu is therefore authorized on the basis of manuscript, word for word translation and many other quotes as mentioned above.”
Contradiction to save face
“…the B.L.I.S.S. devotees DO NOT say that MacMillan edition is bogus or unauthorized…”
[PADA: No, they just say the 1972 Gita is the rascal edited edition? How is that not saying it is bogus?]
Straw-man argument
“Srila Prabhupada does not draft or brainstorm. Is he a conditioned soul that he has to speculate to write his books? So many times Srila Prabhupada mentioned that his books are dictated by Krsna. Do you think Krsna drafts something and only after consulting with Hayagriva it can be published?”
A multitude of Gitas?
"There can be multitude of Gitas all bona fide if the meaning is preserved. We accept all of Srila Prabhupada’s instructions as pertinent to us as he would be physcially present."
More straw-man arguments
“Why are we denying a spiritual guidance of Srila Prabhupada through vani in the matter of editing his books? Why this partiality?”
Missing the point
“In the Rascal editors conversation Srila Prabhupada says, “The next printing should be again to the original way.” Then he asks: “What to do?” and Tamal suggests, that they “have to go over all of the books and make sure that they’re perfect before they’re printed again.” I want to emphasize the word ALL. All the books, no exclusion. Srila Prabhupada doesn’t exclude for example the Bhagavad-gita from the list. All the books means all the books and there is a reason for this.”
My simple reply to BLISS
BLISS has no right to pick and choose which of Hayagriva’s editorial work Srila Prabhupada wanted or did not want in his books. We give preference to the 1972 Gita that Srila Prabhupada approved of, mass distributed, read from and lectured from for FIVE YEARS up to his disappearance. Whatever is there in the 1972 Gita, Srila Prabhupada approved of. Claiming otherwise is speculation and an insult to Srila Prabhupada.
As for the Rascal Editors conversation, the issue being discussed is changes made from earlier printings of the books – not from manuscripts. It’s logically impossible to conclude from the Rascal Editors conversation that Srila Prabhupada is asking for all of his books to be reedited according to manuscripts, transcriptions, lectures, “other quotes”, etc. Rather, Srila Prabhupada is simply requesting their original printed forms to be printed again. Despite a lengthy reply, BLISS has fallen short of proving otherwise.
Challenge to BLISS
BY: VIDURA MAHATMA DAS
25 JUNE, 2018
I’m going to spare readers the headache of having to go through a trivial chain of replies-to-replies and try to briefly present the core arguments presented by BLISS, which they have basically reiterated in various ways throughout their reply.
BLISS’ words in quotations.
Srila Prabhupada’s Gita 1972 is not authorized?
“So, Prabhupada authorizes Hayagriva to put his own thoughts into his books? Or to omit Srila Prabhupada objections to the so-called moon-landing? These are just a few examples of very obvious differences from the original manuscripts or in this case dictation tapes in Hayagriva’s edition. How are these particular changes authorized by Srila Prabhupada?”
BLISS has the authorized Gita?
“The editorial change by Purujit Prabhu is therefore authorized on the basis of manuscript, word for word translation and many other quotes as mentioned above.”
Contradiction to save face
“…the B.L.I.S.S. devotees DO NOT say that MacMillan edition is bogus or unauthorized…”
[PADA: No, they just say the 1972 Gita is the rascal edited edition? How is that not saying it is bogus?]
Straw-man argument
“Srila Prabhupada does not draft or brainstorm. Is he a conditioned soul that he has to speculate to write his books? So many times Srila Prabhupada mentioned that his books are dictated by Krsna. Do you think Krsna drafts something and only after consulting with Hayagriva it can be published?”
A multitude of Gitas?
"There can be multitude of Gitas all bona fide if the meaning is preserved. We accept all of Srila Prabhupada’s instructions as pertinent to us as he would be physcially present."
More straw-man arguments
“Why are we denying a spiritual guidance of Srila Prabhupada through vani in the matter of editing his books? Why this partiality?”
Missing the point
“In the Rascal editors conversation Srila Prabhupada says, “The next printing should be again to the original way.” Then he asks: “What to do?” and Tamal suggests, that they “have to go over all of the books and make sure that they’re perfect before they’re printed again.” I want to emphasize the word ALL. All the books, no exclusion. Srila Prabhupada doesn’t exclude for example the Bhagavad-gita from the list. All the books means all the books and there is a reason for this.”
My simple reply to BLISS
BLISS has no right to pick and choose which of Hayagriva’s editorial work Srila Prabhupada wanted or did not want in his books. We give preference to the 1972 Gita that Srila Prabhupada approved of, mass distributed, read from and lectured from for FIVE YEARS up to his disappearance. Whatever is there in the 1972 Gita, Srila Prabhupada approved of. Claiming otherwise is speculation and an insult to Srila Prabhupada.
As for the Rascal Editors conversation, the issue being discussed is changes made from earlier printings of the books – not from manuscripts. It’s logically impossible to conclude from the Rascal Editors conversation that Srila Prabhupada is asking for all of his books to be reedited according to manuscripts, transcriptions, lectures, “other quotes”, etc. Rather, Srila Prabhupada is simply requesting their original printed forms to be printed again. Despite a lengthy reply, BLISS has fallen short of proving otherwise.
Challenge to BLISS
Show where Srila Prabhupada requests that his 1972 edition Gita be reedited from manuscripts, lectures, etc.
Show how the Rascal Editors conversation pertains to reverting changes made from a manuscript (your premise) as opposed to reverting changes made from already-printed editions of books (my premise).
========================
PADA: Dear Makhanchor das: Unfortunately, saying that Srila Prabhupada is printing, promoting, blessing, and giving classes from a rascal edited book is not acceptable to me, whatever else anyone has to say on the topic. To say Srila Prabhupada is quoting rascal's books is not going to be accepted by any sincere follower of his, ever.
Show how the Rascal Editors conversation pertains to reverting changes made from a manuscript (your premise) as opposed to reverting changes made from already-printed editions of books (my premise).
========================
PADA: Dear Makhanchor das: Unfortunately, saying that Srila Prabhupada is printing, promoting, blessing, and giving classes from a rascal edited book is not acceptable to me, whatever else anyone has to say on the topic. To say Srila Prabhupada is quoting rascal's books is not going to be accepted by any sincere follower of his, ever.
As for your using the word "initiate" the way you want to use it, this is speculation, another thing that will not be accepted. Srila Prabhupada discussed the final sanskrit versions with Pradyumna and others, we do not know what was discussed, we simply only know what was finally used and accepted and printed.
As soon as I began to complain that you folks are saying Srila Prabhupada is using a rascal edited book, our conversation was deleted or blocked. Do you know how many hundreds of times this has happened to me with GBC people already?
And, Srila Prabhupada also discussed the editing he wanted ongoing with various editors, how do you know what he wanted changed or did not want changed? That is probably the first problem ... and how do we know he wants Purujit to change it the way he has done? I have no idea how you folks claim to know this?
And notice, now you people are saying those of us who accept the original printings are fools and rascals. That means de facto, you are saying Srila Prabhupada was wrong for accepting these printings. Where are you guys headed with all this? You do not know what was discussed on the editing, plain and simple. The only thing we know for sure is -- what was finally approved and used. ys pd
I think my main concern now is, (A) Purujit is criticizing and thus discouraging folks from using the existing books of Srila Prabhupada that we are using, (B) he has no legal license to provide any alternate books. So he cannot give people a large scale alternate to the books we are using. Thus! (C) Our books are bad, (D) his books have no legal status, thus people will have NO reliable books, NONE to use at all? Then, they will read Sridhara Maharaja's books? Which is going on already? We cannot shoot down the EXISTING books of Srila Prabhupada, and have no legal framework to make alternate books, never mind people may not accept Purujit is qualified to make alternate books? In sum, you guys did not think this out very well, it looks like we will have NO valid books at all under your scheme. Our books are bad, your books cannot be produced large scale because they are not legal, so -- no books is the end result? Did you guys think about this AT ALL? Yes, there are few so-called problems with some of the existing books, that is why Srila Prabhupada says, his books are going to give people the message of Krishna even if irregularly composed, sincere people will STILL get Krishna from his books, that is the actual aim and object and these books are doing that nicely all along since the 1960s here in usa. ys pd
ReplyDeleteThanks prabhu. Yes, both Jayadvaita and his heir apparent Purujit das have made it their life's work to belittle, besmirch, discredit and permanently discourage anyone from reading the books Srila Prabhupada gave us, by claiming these are books full of mundane defects, flaws and faults.
ReplyDeleteYes! They have the same identical agenda, to sit around day in and day out, nitpicking apart the books Krishna gave us (and He saved our lives therein). Yes, they are both finding countless so-called flaws and faults in the books Krishna gave us and Srila Prabhupada used to give Krishna to us and the world. Yep, Gaudiya Matha folks also said these books are faulty.
Yes! Both Jayadvaita and Purujit refer to the books Srila Prabhupada gave us a "faulty edits," so they can discourage and stop people from reading these books. They appear to have the same aim and object, to tear down people's faith in the books Krishna gave us and to boost up their own edits. Problem being, who is accepting their edits?
Worse problem in the case of Purujit, he has no licence to even produce his own edits of alternate books, so his ultimate plan is -- to have no books at all? Apparently? Srila Prabhupada's books will be nitpicked out of existence, and Purujit's books will have no legal basis, in the end -- there will be nothing. Good question. Is this demoniac?
Well that is the question more and more people are asking, there must be a reason for it. Anyway I agree, they are both using the same techniques. As Srila Prabhupada says, these books will give Krishna to people EVEN IF IRREGULARLY COMPOSED. Its not our job to find all sorts of irregularity and tear down people's faith in these books.
These books are the only thing that will save the mass of people from staying here and rotting in the material world, so tearing away their faith in these books will -- condemn people to stay here. You tell me if that is demoniac or not? Personally? These books saved my life, and to sit around nitpicking the life saving piece of wood that that Krishna tossed to me to save me, is nothing short of horrible activity in my opinion. ys pd
Now the Purujit folks are saying, well you guys are not chanting your rounds, we are the real followers and so on. All the stuff the GBC folks argued with us all along since 1978. Not relevant. They cannot seem to be able to reply to our first points, that the early 1970s are the books that Srila Prabhupada himself uses, and which saved our lives. And which he never ordered to be re-edited by going back to the manuscript, and in any case Purujit was not named as that (non-existing) editor. Nor can "any sincere Christian" re-write the Bible, that is silly. Now they want to burn down and discredit the books that Srila Prabhupada uses and which saved our lives, and for what reason? So they can make a book of their own, which has no legal license and cannot be duplicated large scale anyway? Ever! Again, makes no sense at all? Apart from that, posthumous editing is not done from a book that has already been approved, printed and used in extensive classes and lectures by an author. Nor are they ever answering any of these points? Nor did they even answer the question, why didn't Purujit notify us he wanted to do such a re-edit project, unless he wanted to sneak attack us with his own edits later on? Again, which the GBC does all the time, they have their own secret meetings with no consultations, and then they spring out their idea, which is not going to be accepted? In any case this is a bit of a tempest in a tea cup, they will never get the legal rights for their edition, it will never be more than a teeny little cult's edition of a small group, period. ys pd
ReplyDeleteHare Krsna Mahesh Prabhu… and this offensive cretin (stupid person) has the audacity to claim that..
ReplyDelete“”we dont read the books any more, have no program, no regulative principles, no 16 rounds of Mahamantra, no mangala arati, no sundararati, no preaching program, no reading the books, no reading the letter of Srila Prabhupada, no harinama sankirtana, no Prasadam distribution, no diety worshiping, NO NOTHING””.
So while we are reading, studying and distributing Srila Prabhupada’s ORIGINAL published transcendental literatures, dictated by Krsna, that he himself read and lectured from, we will leave these offensive cretins to wallow in the place of pilgrimage for crows… “tad vayasam tirtham”.
As Srila Prabhupada is a saktyavesa-avatar, all is on the absolute spiritual platform including his picture.. “There is no difference between me and my picture..” letter written by Srila Prabhupada dated September 4, 1972
Enviousness of Krsna brings us here and enviousness of the Maha-Bhagavat devotee (I wanna be guroo), will throw one further into the darkest regions (along with their cheated followers).
Yfs, Balaram das.
[PADA: Exactly how the GBC has argued with us since 1978. You are not following, you are not chanting, you are drug addcits, and many other personal attacks. Of course Gaudiya Matha gurus also criticized Srila Prabhuada with the same arguments all along, calling him a paccha (rotten) grhastha. That means they have run out of arguments, because now its all personal character attacks.
And that is how they have left a trail of burnt out people, they are just plain arrogant and they engage in mistreating anyone who questions their program. Its all GBC techniques, which means, they have no learned anything from the past history of all this. Their idea that any since Christian can re-write the Bible is simply childish, at best. Anyway, they do not have defenders coming to tell us they are right, its only their little clique members that write defense of their process. It does not matter if we are following or not, they have no authority to attack, minimize and re-write the books approved and used by the acharyas. Again, it what the GBC folks do. No, that is not following Srila Prabhupada, that is following the GBC's ideals. ys pd