Sunday, June 3, 2018

Discussion of the "Hansadutta history" video

Discussion on the "Hansadutta history" video:

PADA: Yes, Hansadutta is NOT living in ISKCON proper himself. A number of these "big leaders" worked very hard to make ISKCON into an un-populated ghost town, a bankrupted scorched earth empty shell with a bad public image. Then, after they burned down the house of Krishna, they left themselves. 

Even they could not live in the odious disaster zone they created. 

Yes it does seem they are simply the sinister agents of Kali, sent to harm the process of worship of Krishna for the sincere devotees. Agreed. Why would they say deviants are God's successors, unless they have the intent of turning people away from God? That is the only sensible explanation? 

Yes, much of these accounts are verified by: Newspaper accounts; TV shows (some we testified on); Professional books we helped consult; Other various medias; Various court records; Various police records; Testimony of hundreds of eye-witness -- and so on and so forth. Glad you found this helpful. ys pd

KA: Yes, this service that you are doing is so very helpful, Prabhu. Maya has weaved a  powerful web of lies so that only the very sincere can understand how to continue on their paths toward Krishna. Thank you for you podcasts. Your association is very important for souls such as myself who have become somewhat isolated by the events that transpired in the seventies in ISKCON. 

The brand that Srila Prabhupada established with his astoundingly powerful bhakti has been tarnished, but also Krishna has provided ways for each of us to polish it and restore it. All Glories to HDG AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. All Glories to the Sri Krishna Chaitanya Sankirtan movement, which cannot be stopped!

BR: Agree, many of these people were totally insane and envious and also some criminal. Agree, no sincere devotee could contionue to live in such a society.
But aparently this is Krishna's program according to Sb 7.1.25 Purport.
So most sincere people had to pay the price, for the envious behavior of these iskcon misleaders. If you ask me now ISKCON is full of different people. Mostly indians from different background than the early followers...

(I was reading this today, how even these extremely envious and inimical persons get purified by thinking of Krishna)

"Kṛṣṇa can expand Himself as Paramatma in the core of everyone’s heart. In Bhagavad-gita (13.3) this is confirmed. Ksetrajnam capi mam viddhi sama-ksetresu bharata: the Lord is the Paramatma—the atmā or Superself of all individual souls. Therefore it must naturally be concluded that He has no defective bodily conceptions. Although situated in everyone’s body, He has no bodily conception of life. He is always free from such conceptions, and thus He cannot be affected by anything in relation to the material body of the jīva.

Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā (16.19):
tan aham dvisatah kruran
samsareṣu naradhaman
ksipamy ajasram asubhan
asurisv eva yonisu

“Those who are envious and mischievous, who are the lowest among men, are cast by Me into the ocean of material existence, into various demoniac species of life.” Whenever the Lord punishes persons like demons, however, such punishment is meant for the good of the conditioned soul. The conditioned soul, being envious of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, may accuse Him, saying, “Krsna is bad, Krsna is a thief” and so on, but Krsna, being kind to all living entities, does not consider such accusations. 

Instead, He takes account of the conditioned soul’s chanting of “Krsna, Krsna” so many times. He sometimes punishes such demons for one life by putting them in a lower species, but then, when they have stopped accusing Him, they are liberated in the next life because of chanting Krsna’s name constantly. 

Blaspheming the Supreme Lord or His devotee is not at all good for the conditioned soul, but Krsna, being very kind, punishes the conditioned soul in one life for such sinful activities and then takes him back home, back to Godhead. The vivid example for this is Vrtrasura, who was formerly Citraketu Maharaja, a great devotee. 

Because he derided Lord Śiva, the foremost of all devotees, he had to accept the body of a demon called Vrtra, but then he was taken back to Godhead. Thus when Krsna punishes a demon or conditioned soul, He stops that soul’s habit of blaspheming Him, and when the soul becomes completely pure, the Lord takes him back to Godhead." [...]

[PADA: Right, well every guru today in the GBC's guru parampara is part of the entire process of accepting the false appointment of 11, thus they accept that the FIRST WAVE of falsely appointed 11 -- then voted in ANOTHER WAVE of gurus and so on. The siddhanta of the current GBC is -- that gurus in the "parampara from Krishna" are often deviated and falling. And the first wave of falling down acharyas are simultaneously "voting in" another wave of acharyas. 

So it does not matter if the contemporary people are better behaved or not, they all share the same siddhanta, that the guru parampara is often contaminated with deviants, criminals, predators and etc. Or worse, acharyas are "2/3 show of hands voted in" by deviants if not debauchees etc. 

In other words, the bogus 11 voted in the next wave, so if they have no authority, neither does the subsequent wave. Meanwhile a number of people in the second wave are falling, getting sick and dying prematurely etc. ... because they ALSO have the same disease as the first wave, they think they can be diksha gurus and absorb sins. 

They are not authorized to take up that function. I have seen people lined up in a temple to touch the feet of some of the second wave, that means they are taking sins without authority and they are fooling people -- just as much as the first wave did. Granted its more sophisticated at present, but the underlying mistake of making conditioned souls into acharyas has not been resolved. ys pd

BR: Well I think the Prabhupadanuga process has still been successful to some extent, because anybody who googles Hare Krishna finds out about the Guru scam. So now many iskcon Gurus have had to admit they only take people to Prabhupada and Prabhupada takes the disciples to Krishna. Even Garga Muni Pr. was saying the Gurus in iskcon have to be very careful now, and can not carry their head high like they are Prabhupada. 

They still made this founder Acharya thing, so that they can remain in their guru positions while basically admitting: we are only voted in gurus / not assistants to the gopis / or actual full fledged Acharyas. Most of these new iskcon followers are indians even from many more elevated positions. The crowd has changed in iskcon. it is not the hippies any more. And maybe in the future people will have to grow their religion more on a nama hatta basis, because in Kali Yuga an organized religion can not work out well. as soon as these leaders get a little power and money they abuse it. Only decentralized system like Nama hatta / congregation can work. No temples, only home programs.

PADA: Fine. Yet a neophyte cannot take the post of diksha guru and absorb sins. Its cheating, plain and simple. There is the story of the snake who was eaten alive by ants (it on my blog), and the snake was formerly a guru and the ants were his disciples. The ants were eating the snake because the guru had promised to take their sins, but he had not potency to do so, so now the former disciples were punishing the bogus diksha guru by eating him alive. 

So there are very heavy consequences to allowing false diksha gurus, and this story is possibly one of the lesser punishments. 

The GBC says that their gurus are (A) Krishna's diksha guru successors and (B) often debauchees. No one who has real respect for Krishna will allow anyone to imply that God's successors are often debauchees and deviants, because that makes God a deviant. Yes! They are gradually transforming into a sort of ritvik hybrid process, and that is better than nothing, but the underlying misconceptions are still not resolved. For starters, the pure devotee would not appoint 11 conditioned souls as his successors in the first place, and its an insult to imply that he would. These issues need to be cleared up threadbare, not in some sentimental hodge podge manner as is currently being conducted. ys pd

BR: Well some of these Gurus might await that fate. If you ask me Krishna will have to decide that, because at the same time they also chant his name. We did our duty and warned innocent people. I have so many videos on my channel to warn people about the Guru Scam and truth on July 9th 1977 letter. But still nobody became a Prabhupadanuga, because most people do not function on a logical level. 

You can present them the facts, still they do not follow the truth. They are just like a group of animals. When somebody has a bigger group they go there... So because iskcon has more people, many people go there simply because of this group following mentality. Many people became devotees, because they knew somebody who was a devotee, not too much because of logic. Many became devotees, because they were attracted by the chanting of great devotees like Vishnujana Swami. This was not on a logical level, but on a non verbal level, simply by associating non verbal level of communication / attraction...

PADA: Points well taken. I agree with a lot of your conclusions. However, I was requested to make a series of history videos by various people who said -- this history has to be known, or else it will be hard for people later on to figure out what happened and how. Meanwhile, at least some people tell me these type videos have saved them from tons of misunderstandings and suffering and so forth. Many ex-kulis appreciate our work in particular. 

Our blogs and sites get regular views from all over the place and I am currently helping projects with documents and testimony in different places especially outside the USA. So we can only do what we can with what we have. I am not really too worried about "how many" people accept or do not. 

When this all started I was basically almost alone in UK saying that "Srila Jayatirtha" is NOT the appointed successor to God, almost cent percent said I was a nutty fool and offender. Most people later on said the same things when I objected to the kuli abuse process. Most people said the exact same things when we objected to the changed books issue. Most people said the same exact things when we came out with the poison issue, i.e. you are nuts, no one believes you, you are a liar, offender etc. 

Well fine, some do accept, some do not. 

Of course! Yet 5,000 years ago, many people even objected to Krishna's idea of how to do things when He was here and present -- and worse -- many folks wanted to attack Him, kill Him and etc. Many people also objected to Srila Prabhupada's process too when he was here. Thus, having "many people" who would object to my complaints is nothing new. We can only do what we can with what we have. We are helping with break through programs now in foreign lands, so they are waking up slowly. 

At this point in time, how many people agree with my original 1978 complaint, and think Jayatirtha is the appointed successor to God? OK nobody, or at best almost nobody thinks that Jayatirtha is the appointed successor to God anymore. That means, over time, our stuff get accepted. We are simply ahead of the curve. Eventually, as you pointed out, even the institution will gradually adopt more of our ideas, its simply a question of time. Time is always on our side, satyam eva jayate, truth always prevails -- albeit it may take awhile. As for logic, there was not a lot of logic even when Krishna was here, He kept defeating people, logically not a good idea to attack Him, but they kept doing so. Its the material world. ys pd

BR: Sure why not expose them, it always important to know history. But just like in the karmi world everybody is dependent on money, food, shelter. So since the iskcon devotees are mostly getting their material needs from ISKCON, they can never accept the truth -- or they will be kicked out and silenced. They are in no position of being authentic, because when you do not have money, you need to surrender to the opinion of the hand that feeds ya or be sanctioned materially. 

I read your blog daily, because after I made many negative experiences with the "devotees" I think it is important to warn people to not blindly surrender to these material conditioned devotees and remain careful. On the other hand, if you compare the material society to a spiritual desert, it is practically impossible for the conditioned souls to get spiritual knowledge without any association. So this show the iskcon people do not care too much for the suffering souls and only want to ensure their guru positions. As Srila Prabhupada says in this lecture: "Time and Tide Wait for No Man by Srila Prabhupada SB 6 1 23, Chicago, July 7, 1975"

So right now western people have not much possibility for Krishna Consciousness... Time and tide wait for no man. These people like Hansadutta are old history. While they did many initial efforts (which we benefit from now in the form of books) yet they were full of faults. While the preaching was ruined the demons managed to turn the world into a full swing hellish Kali Yuga of economic slavery and brain washing mass media mind control. So now independent devotees also have no shelter and are struggling to survive. If you loose unity it is very difficult to continue the mission. Only thing is that people can use technology like smartphones( ) and internet, youtube to directly hear from Prabhupada...

PADA: Right, however ISKCON is very weak financially at the moment, their income is way down, and they are still paying a lot of money for the child abuse lawsuit and so on. Even by 1988 Lokanath swami said that ISKCON is a ghost town. So there are a few salaried people here and there, but overall their membership is declining and they are making a Hindu cultural hall program to keep some income, but its not really attracting many full time temple members. Even Brooklyn New York temple has hardly any people living there when there used to be over 200 in NYC maybe 30 years ago. Then we have the Krishna West types etc., which is also a small time project. So what we are doing is for the sincere people mostly who are out of the society.

All of these histories are intertwined. Yes, Hansadutta was doing foolish things, but the fact the entire GBC did not rectify it -- places the whole entire GBC show bottle managers in perspective, there was a conspiracy to make false acharyas and the overall upper management was part of that. Yes, Srila Prabhupada is more available now and we advertise that extensively as well. Basically, it will be a question going way forward in the future, what happened to the Krishna religion? And it will be important for people in the future to know this history so that future messiah wanna-be programs can be checked before they get off the ground. And we need to have people know how the books were changed and so on.

At the same time, this connects to other issues like for example -- the poison issue. Since these leaders had little regard for Srila Prabhupada's mission, his disciples, temples, books and school children, how much regard did they have for him? Its connected. And if they had little regard for him, no wonder his gurukula children suffered -- and so on and so forth. All of this is connected. So we need to go to the root issue, these people had little regard for the acharya, and that explains the root of all of these deviations. Anyway, some people enjoy what we are doing because they could not figure out a lot of this history on their own. Srila Prabhupada explained the Gaudiya Matha's history of deviation to us, because as Sri Madhvacarya says, anyone who understands history correctly is eligible for liberation. ys pd

No comments:

Post a Comment

Note: Only a member of this blog may post a comment.