*** TS: One glaring problem with the inquiry itself is that it is based upon the assumption that the idea of being a "true siksa disciple of SP" is the ideal, when this ideal comes from a paper published by those one finds to be spiritually lacking.
[PADA: The policy for Tripurari swami is: Srila Prabhupada could be, maybe might be, possibly ought to be the guru, except, the people saying that are spiritually lacking. Srila Prabhupada should be the guru, except this is only stated somewhere in a paper. Meanwhile, Tripurari swami says his "shiksha guru" authority is Sridhara Maharaja. Unfortunately, the "gurus" Sridhara Maharaja supported post-1936 and post-1977 have been not only spiritually lacking, but are sometimes homosexuals and criminals. In sum, the Tripurari swami's program has been promoting unqualified persons as acharyas.
And the result of Sridhara Maharaja's making unqualified gurus after 1936 was, the guru SM selected started having fall downs. Srila Prabhupada explains that the guru selected by Sridhara Maharaja (named Ananta Vasudeva) had problems with illicit sex, with both men and women. Eventually, Ananta Vasudeva got married. Some of the Gaudiya Matha folks who complained and "dissented" were beaten and murdered. After some time, the young son of Ananta Vasudeva was killed with poison to suppress his testimony that the wife of Ananta Vasudeva was a prostitute. And this is Tripurari swami's idea of "the tradition of guru parampara"?
Sounds like a program made not only by people who are "spiritually lacking," but people who are spiritual unaware of the standards for acharyas, namely the shiksha guru of Tripurari Swami -- BR Sridhara Maharaja. Then again, making false acharyas, which results in violent guru cults that murders dissenters, and even murders the son of the acharya to cover up a scandal and so forth, should be considered as people who are not only lacking spiritually, but who are making hell on earth. As Rupa Goswami says, people who make false acharyas are "utpat" -- simply a disturbance to the sincere. Why does Tripurari swami think all this process has been the path forward for the Vaishnava community?
Even the karmis are appalled with this program: False gurus, illicit sex with men and women, murders of dissenters. And when someone asked Sridhara Maharaja about all this in the 1940s, why are there beatings and murders going on in your Vaishnava program, he said -- this is really not a big issue since war and killing is what we find in the Bhagavad Gita. What?
Making false gurus, and what happened then was -- "dissenting" brahmanas were beaten, some were having their faces pushed into dogs stools, some had their skulls cracked with bricks, some were killed, this is what the Bhagavad Gita is all about? What Bhagavad Gita are these Sridhara Maharaja people reading?
And this is why Srila Prabhupada ordered us not to consult with Sridhara Maharaja. SM's policy of supporting false acharyas has had the same devastating effects on ISKCON: the GBC gurus supported by Sridhara Maharaja started falling down, dissenters were beaten and killed, and so on and so forth. Why does Tripurari swami think that Sridhara Maharaja's promoting these bogus guru programs is bona fide?
For example, after Sridhara Maharaja was told that Jayatirtha was taking drugs and engaging in illicit sex, he said Jayatirtha MUST still remain in the acharya's post and "none should protest." Not only must ISKCON worship illicit sex and drugs, dissenting is not advised. This is what some folks called "locked in nescience" at the time. The result was, thousands of people were swept away from ISKCON into Jayatirtha's drugs and illicit sex cult, some of Jayatirtha's people went crazy on drugs and pulled out guns at theaters -- to demand the actress on stage "go out for a date," one of them allegedly jumped off a freeway bridge, and so on, and Jayatirtha was murdered by having his head chopped off slowly with a dull knife because he was having an affair with the wife of a follower. Oh yea, this is all found in the Bhagavad Gita? No, this is the result of listening to people who are spiritually lacking, and who supported such bogus guru programs, ok like Sridhara Maharaja.]
And the result of Sridhara Maharaja's making unqualified gurus after 1936 was, the guru SM selected started having fall downs. Srila Prabhupada explains that the guru selected by Sridhara Maharaja (named Ananta Vasudeva) had problems with illicit sex, with both men and women. Eventually, Ananta Vasudeva got married. Some of the Gaudiya Matha folks who complained and "dissented" were beaten and murdered. After some time, the young son of Ananta Vasudeva was killed with poison to suppress his testimony that the wife of Ananta Vasudeva was a prostitute. And this is Tripurari swami's idea of "the tradition of guru parampara"?
Sounds like a program made not only by people who are "spiritually lacking," but people who are spiritual unaware of the standards for acharyas, namely the shiksha guru of Tripurari Swami -- BR Sridhara Maharaja. Then again, making false acharyas, which results in violent guru cults that murders dissenters, and even murders the son of the acharya to cover up a scandal and so forth, should be considered as people who are not only lacking spiritually, but who are making hell on earth. As Rupa Goswami says, people who make false acharyas are "utpat" -- simply a disturbance to the sincere. Why does Tripurari swami think all this process has been the path forward for the Vaishnava community?
Even the karmis are appalled with this program: False gurus, illicit sex with men and women, murders of dissenters. And when someone asked Sridhara Maharaja about all this in the 1940s, why are there beatings and murders going on in your Vaishnava program, he said -- this is really not a big issue since war and killing is what we find in the Bhagavad Gita. What?
Making false gurus, and what happened then was -- "dissenting" brahmanas were beaten, some were having their faces pushed into dogs stools, some had their skulls cracked with bricks, some were killed, this is what the Bhagavad Gita is all about? What Bhagavad Gita are these Sridhara Maharaja people reading?
And this is why Srila Prabhupada ordered us not to consult with Sridhara Maharaja. SM's policy of supporting false acharyas has had the same devastating effects on ISKCON: the GBC gurus supported by Sridhara Maharaja started falling down, dissenters were beaten and killed, and so on and so forth. Why does Tripurari swami think that Sridhara Maharaja's promoting these bogus guru programs is bona fide?
For example, after Sridhara Maharaja was told that Jayatirtha was taking drugs and engaging in illicit sex, he said Jayatirtha MUST still remain in the acharya's post and "none should protest." Not only must ISKCON worship illicit sex and drugs, dissenting is not advised. This is what some folks called "locked in nescience" at the time. The result was, thousands of people were swept away from ISKCON into Jayatirtha's drugs and illicit sex cult, some of Jayatirtha's people went crazy on drugs and pulled out guns at theaters -- to demand the actress on stage "go out for a date," one of them allegedly jumped off a freeway bridge, and so on, and Jayatirtha was murdered by having his head chopped off slowly with a dull knife because he was having an affair with the wife of a follower. Oh yea, this is all found in the Bhagavad Gita? No, this is the result of listening to people who are spiritually lacking, and who supported such bogus guru programs, ok like Sridhara Maharaja.]
*** TS: The book it is found in goes on to explain what it means by the term and its explanation ends up being an institutional management strategy of apasiddhanta that distorts who SP is rather than offer any clear teaching about the nature of guru parampara and the Gaudiya Vaisnava sampradaya.
[PADA: Here we go again, because Sridhara Maharaja supported a homosexual and deviant acharya's program after 1936, which murdered dissenters, and he supported even worse GBC deviants as acharyas after 1977, which also murdered dissenters, therefore he is the "clear teacher of the guru parampara." Sridhara Maharaja does not even recognize the actual guru parampara -- which contains no deviants at all.
As for the concocted "institutional management" strategy, that is another example of a deviation Sridhara Maharaja concocted. SM said the Governing Body Commission (GBC) of the institution will manage the acharyas of the institution, by a set of "guru" regulations and votes. How can the conditioned souls of a managerial body "manage" the acharyas, who are supposed to be connected directly to Krishna and are getting their dictation from Krishna and not these managers? Hansadutta, to his credit says, this was the first problem they had, the guru is getting direct dictation from God, so he needs to be managed by a committee?
Sridhara Maharaja says having conditioned soul managers oversee the acharyas is "the tradition," but this is false, none of the previous acharyas in the Vaishnava tradition has been under the supervision of a managerial group? Worse, Sridhara Maharaja wrote a book called "Sri Guru And His Grace" wherein he says the acharyas are "going mad" after women, followers, money and prestige.
People who are "going mad" after material things are -- Krishna's successors and His acharya representatives? And what happens when these acharyas go so far off the track, they start orchestrating murders from their madness? This is why the book Monkey On A Stick summed up Sridhara Maharaja's whole program, "Murder, Madness and the Hare Krishnas." Question is, who authorized Sridhara Maharaja to endorse, empower and support these mad gurus who have been getting people murdered, in either 1936 or later on?]
*** And according to a much more authoritative text, Bhagavad-gita, the way in which one can be a true follower of our guru parampara (to correctly reframe the ideal) is to find a qualified member of the lineage, take shelter of him/her, embrace that Vaisnava's siksa, and eventually accept diksa from that parampara representative. This is a very simple, straightforward, non institutional, scripturally correct course for the uninitiated. It itself is flawless, even while any student is subject to his or her lack of knowledge, sukrti, or sincerity that will inevitably be a factor in the decision making process of whom to take guidance from. But there is no way around that other than to learn from one's mistakes, in which case the lesson is not to forgo seeking initiation or succumb to some convoluted misrepresentation of the sastra on the subject.
These days many devotees accept a guru who is explicitly or implicitly promoted by a particular institution's leadership, only to find out that the guru is very unqualified. However, such devotees then often follow the same leadership's idea of how to proceed, and that idea is one that is considered apasiddhanta by every other Gaudiya Vaisnava lineage. Meanwhile all these other lineages have qualified gurus that are explicitly or implicitly maligned by the rogue institution's leadership.
[PADA : What is apa-siddhanta is that Sridhara Maharaja promotes unqualified people to be gurus, and then thousands of innocent Vaishnavas are banned, some are even beaten and killed. And after SM orchestrates all this banning, beating and murders after 1936, he creates the same exact thing after 1977, so he can get more people banned, beat and killed, except this time it was worse -- because his post-1977 messiahs were orchestrating mass child abuse. What kind of tradition is the Sridhara / Tripurari / GBC promoting? That is the question we never get answered. ys pd]
[PADA: Here we go again, because Sridhara Maharaja supported a homosexual and deviant acharya's program after 1936, which murdered dissenters, and he supported even worse GBC deviants as acharyas after 1977, which also murdered dissenters, therefore he is the "clear teacher of the guru parampara." Sridhara Maharaja does not even recognize the actual guru parampara -- which contains no deviants at all.
As for the concocted "institutional management" strategy, that is another example of a deviation Sridhara Maharaja concocted. SM said the Governing Body Commission (GBC) of the institution will manage the acharyas of the institution, by a set of "guru" regulations and votes. How can the conditioned souls of a managerial body "manage" the acharyas, who are supposed to be connected directly to Krishna and are getting their dictation from Krishna and not these managers? Hansadutta, to his credit says, this was the first problem they had, the guru is getting direct dictation from God, so he needs to be managed by a committee?
Sridhara Maharaja says having conditioned soul managers oversee the acharyas is "the tradition," but this is false, none of the previous acharyas in the Vaishnava tradition has been under the supervision of a managerial group? Worse, Sridhara Maharaja wrote a book called "Sri Guru And His Grace" wherein he says the acharyas are "going mad" after women, followers, money and prestige.
People who are "going mad" after material things are -- Krishna's successors and His acharya representatives? And what happens when these acharyas go so far off the track, they start orchestrating murders from their madness? This is why the book Monkey On A Stick summed up Sridhara Maharaja's whole program, "Murder, Madness and the Hare Krishnas." Question is, who authorized Sridhara Maharaja to endorse, empower and support these mad gurus who have been getting people murdered, in either 1936 or later on?]
*** And according to a much more authoritative text, Bhagavad-gita, the way in which one can be a true follower of our guru parampara (to correctly reframe the ideal) is to find a qualified member of the lineage, take shelter of him/her, embrace that Vaisnava's siksa, and eventually accept diksa from that parampara representative. This is a very simple, straightforward, non institutional, scripturally correct course for the uninitiated. It itself is flawless, even while any student is subject to his or her lack of knowledge, sukrti, or sincerity that will inevitably be a factor in the decision making process of whom to take guidance from. But there is no way around that other than to learn from one's mistakes, in which case the lesson is not to forgo seeking initiation or succumb to some convoluted misrepresentation of the sastra on the subject.
These days many devotees accept a guru who is explicitly or implicitly promoted by a particular institution's leadership, only to find out that the guru is very unqualified. However, such devotees then often follow the same leadership's idea of how to proceed, and that idea is one that is considered apasiddhanta by every other Gaudiya Vaisnava lineage. Meanwhile all these other lineages have qualified gurus that are explicitly or implicitly maligned by the rogue institution's leadership.
[PADA : What is apa-siddhanta is that Sridhara Maharaja promotes unqualified people to be gurus, and then thousands of innocent Vaishnavas are banned, some are even beaten and killed. And after SM orchestrates all this banning, beating and murders after 1936, he creates the same exact thing after 1977, so he can get more people banned, beat and killed, except this time it was worse -- because his post-1977 messiahs were orchestrating mass child abuse. What kind of tradition is the Sridhara / Tripurari / GBC promoting? That is the question we never get answered. ys pd]
What murder did Sridhara Maharaja orchestrate and show us the proof that he did or shut up.
ReplyDelete[PADA: Some dissenters to Sridhara Maharaja's post 1936 gurus were killed. Some were beaten, some had their faces pushed into dog stools, some were beaten with bricks. Srila Prabhupada told us that. And, that this was well known, because SM's bogus post-1936 gurus created bad news media publicity in India. If you do not know that the post-1977 gurus promoted by Sridhara Maharaja have had dissenters killed, and bad newspaper media, where have you been? Wake up, this has been in the media since the past 35 years. ys pd]
The murders created by the GBC gurus supported by Sridhara Maharaja have been in all the major newspapers in the USA, go read them.
ReplyDeleteI did not say Sridhara Maharaja's post 1936 gurus created beatings and murders, Srila Prabhupada did say that. I also did not say Sridhara Maharaja's post 1977 gurus created beatings, murders, and child molesting, the newspapers said all that. I am quoting these sources. You are not quoting anything? What is your source? ys pd
ReplyDeleteBasically what happened is that Sridhara Maharaja endorsed the post 1936 guru, then when people were getting banned, beaten and killed, he wandered off and said he is not going to bother helping, not really my problem. You are on your own. So he created a Frankenstein monster, and when his giant monster was gobbling people up, he decided to retire and let the problem sort itself out. In other words, the banning, beating and killing would just go on and he was not going to help.
ReplyDeleteHe did the same thing post-1977, he said we have to support these bogus gurus, and when all the trouble started, he just said, not my problem. In other words, you'd better go to the police for help to escape getting iced from my bogus guru cults, and we did. And that is how we survived the Sridhara Maharaja bogus guru cults program that assassinates Vaishnavas, we had to get the police to save me from Sridhara's handiworks of making false messiahs. And if it were not for the police, I would have ended up like the 1936 dissenter victims of SM's handiworks, dead as a door nail.
That is why Srila Prabhupada actually saved me, he warned me that Sridhara Maharaja has a tendency to make violent homosexual guru cults, which kills people, so we were warned, thus we knew in advance we'd have to go to the police once SM started taking the bogus acharyas process into his hands. He made another violent homosexual guru cult, and yes, that means he did not learn from his first mistake of doing that. ys pd
Thanks prabhus, Yes I was in india in the early 70s for two years. Srila Prabhupada told us various stories of the Gaudiya Matha, and that was one of them, that dissenters to Sridhara's bogus guru were sometimes beaten, had their faces pushed into dogs stools, had their skulls cracked with bricks, and some were killed. And this ended up in the India media.
ReplyDeleteAnd that many of the rank and file who were removed by Sridhara's false gurus fell down into wife swapping, sitting in tea shops reading newspapers, smoking beedis and etc. Yep, they no longer had any engagement, so they fell down.
There was only a small group of us in India at the time, a little party of maybe 20 people. I am not sure who else was there at the time, the group was constantly changing because people were being added to the group and some were leaving on a regular basis.
There are also some other things that I recall about the Gaudiya Matha which I describe in the video below. Hope this helps, ys pd ISKCON early history pt.3 *MAYAPURA 1972* by pd
http://youtu.be/YqCFMHLisBI
Again, the story of Ananta Vasudeva is verified in the conversations books. The letter to Rupanuga says that Sridhar Maharaja violated the orders of his guru. The story of the GBC's gurus Sridhara Maharaja promoted and supported is verified in all sorts of media. Do you guys ever read anything? ys pd
ReplyDeleteI hope you are not saying that the gurus endorsed post-1936 and post-1977 by Sridhara Maharaja are authorized? Not sure what your point is here? ys pd
ReplyDeleteSrila Prabhupada said that the stories of the Gaudiya Matha's beatings and murders were in the newspapers in India, ok that's like 1940's India. No, I do not have access to the 1940s India news media stories, which are probably not saved anywhere. probably also all in hindi, and I cannot read it, even if it is available somewhere.
ReplyDeleteProbably the story of Sridhara's guru's boy being poisoned was in the media, it most likely ended up as a murder case. Not sure why that would matter, because this means you are not accepting the version of Srila Prabhupada?
We believe Srila Prabhupada, that people were beaten and killed, because that is what the same bogus guru process Sridhara Maharaja promoted did after 1977, his process orchestrated the same crimes. Same pattern.
What we do have a for sure is record of Srila Prabhupada writing to Rupanuga warning him about Sridhara Maharaja's trend of making false gurus. We have a record of Sridhara Maharaja being called by Srila Prabhupada the leader of the severe offenders Bagh Bazaar party, which was stated in 1977.
And, if you have not been reading the constant stream of bad media the GBC's gurus that Sridhara Maharaja endorsed have produced, you are just out of touch with reality. Almost everyone knows that the gurus supported by Sridhara Maharaja created all kinds of crimes, including murder,its called common public information. Go to a library and do some work on their microfiche copies, its all there. Dude, where have you been? We just helped a TV show, Deadly Devotion, umm, its almost like everyone else knows the gurus Sridhara Maharaja supported are criminals, except, you? The book Monkey On A Stick also gives a good account of the fools Sridhara Maharaja was promoting as his idea of acharyas, its all public info now, just your teen little cult folks circle has not yet been informed. ys pd
Room Conversation, April 22, 1977, Bombay.
ReplyDeletePrabhupada: He (Sridhara Maharaja) cannot make any comment These are facts. Two parties there were. One party, to use guru as their instrument for self-aggrandizement, and another party left guru. So both of them are offenders. This Kunja Babu, this Tirtha Maharaja's party, he wanted to enjoy senses through guru. And the (Sridhara Maharaja's) Bagh Bazaar party, they left.
Tamala Krishna: Vasudeva.
Prabhupada: So both of them are severe offenders.
Tamala Krishna: What about Sridhara Maharaja?
Prabhupada: Sridhara Maharaja belonged to the Bagh Bazaar party. And I was living aloof. My Guru Maharaja approved. He said, "It is better that he is aloof from them."
Tamala Krishna: He could understand that his disciples were not...
Prabhupada: No, he was very sorry. At the last stage he was disgusted.
*** [PADA: Both parties are severe offenders. Very clear. ys pd]
Room Conversation, June 18, 1976, Toronto.
ReplyDeletePrabhupada: Daily night. And he was shocked. One of my Gaudiya Matha God brothers, big, he became the head of this Bhag Bazaar Gaudiya Matha. So his wife was debauched, and she was bringing new paramour, and the child protested.
Pusta Krishna: New?
Prabhupada: Paramour. And the boy, he was ten years or twelve years old, he could understand: "Who is this man?" So he protested and said, "I shall tell all these things to my father." And he was killed.
Pusta Krishna: The boy was killed?
Prabhupada: By the mother.
Hari-sauri: She murdered him?
Prabhupada: Yes. Killed means given poison. And the father, that is, my God brother, seeing this, he also took poison. This is the end of Gaudiya Matha scandal. He was also one of the trustees. This Tirtha Maharaja was a trustee, and another God brother and this man. In the beginning, they were made trustees. In the beginning, Prabhupada was to undergo surgical operation. So he was a little nervous, that "I may die." So he made a scrap paper, that "In case I die, these three disciples will be trustees of the Gaudiya Matha Institute." That's all. So this Kunja Babu kept this. There are many long histories. So one of the so-called Trustees was this Vasudeva. So he died, his end was like this.
Pusta Krishna: His son was killed, isn't it?
Prabhupada: His wife was a regular prostitute, and she killed her child, and on this shock, he took poison and died.
Pusta Krishna: He killed himself, oh.
Prabhupada: Naturally, he became shocked, that "This is my family life - the wife is prostitute and son is killed. What is the value of my life?" This was his spiritual realization. Just see. (laughs) And he was made the chief, and one of the chief supporters was Sridhara Maharaja.
Pusta Krishna: Vasudeva Sridhara?
Prabhupada: No, no. He was made chief. Guru Maharaja did not make him chief. But after his passing away, some of our God brothers voted him chief.
Pusta Krishna: Am I mis...? You had told me once, I'm not certain. Maybe I made a mistake. You said that Vasudeva, it was known fact that he was homo sex?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta Krishna: Vasudeva.
Prabhupada: He was homo sex and sex, everything.
Homo sex and sex, everything, and main supporter was Sridhara Maharaja.
ReplyDeleteWYATT: For what reason did Srila Prabhupada told this things to some of his leading disciples and for what reason are you saying all this things now, Puranjana dasa?
ReplyDelete[PADA: Because Sridhara Maharaja is your shiksha guru master, he says we need living gurus just, as you do, you are his sock puppet. And this is the result of his and yours living gurus programs, i.e. homosexuals, deviants, criminals, murderers and so on posing as gurus. You do not even know this is the problem, hence we repeated it, and notice, you are resisting? Proves you do not get it.]
W: Did your spiritual master Srila Prabhupada told or instructed you to keep repeating this as part of your devotional service to Sri Krsna?
[PADA: Apparently you guys are not getting it, your living guru project has failed. Why don't you just agree and move on?]
W: And please don't say you never said those thing but it was Srila Prabhupada who did. Its a very stupid statement. Hare Krsna
[PADA: Srila Prabhupada says, homosex and sex, and he says that's the result of your living gurus in post 1936. And now its the same result in post 1977. And what he says is exactly what we say, the living guru program has become homosex and sex and everything. Same, ditto heads. Sorry, you did not read his statements above, homosex and sex and everything, sums your "living guru" project up pretty nice eh what? What is stupid is that anyone is arguing with us at all about this, every common man on the street knows homosex and sex and everything, is a deviation, its not guru. Why is anyone challenging this at all, its a commonly understood principle, none of the common people even argue about this with us, its just you guys? Odd huh? ys pd]
OK read it again sam, us and Srila Prabhupada do not say Sridhara Maharaja personally killed anyone. You are not reading what we said? Nope. What us and Srila Prabhupada say is. Sridhara Maharaja is the chief adviser, cheer leader, supporter, shastric legal advice team, advocate, help mate, hand maiden etc. -- of the people who have been orchestrating these criminal things.
ReplyDeleteFor example, Kamsa had many people in his court who were his cheer leading advisors, they did not kill anyone themselves, but they encouraged the program that was killing people. And that is what the GBC themselves said in 1978, Sridhara Maharaja is our "senior most adviser on the planet." Srila Prabhupada said SM is one of the chief post 1936 advisers for their homosexual guru project, and its evident he was the GBC's adviser post 1977, because he ghost wrote a number of their documents and was encouraging them to be gurus and etc. Srila Prabhupada never said the advisers to Kamsa were personally killing people, he said, they supported the process that was. ys pd
No, YOU SAID Sridhara Orchestrated bannings beatings and murder, so are you now backpeddling and saying you did not say that, because it is in print, you said it. so now you contradict yourself, which shows you to be a liar. that was the point.
ReplyDelete[PADA: We have not back pedalled at all? We said, Sridhara Maharaja orchestrated banning, beatings and murders by supporting false gurus, just like Kamsa's advisers orchestrated problems by their supporting and empowering Kamsa. And just like the Frankenstein monster killed people, but not the doctor who created the monster. His creation killed the people, that means he orchestrated the problem by making the Frankenstein monster in the first place.
Dr. Frankenstein was not hacking up people, but the monster he orchestrated was. You are splitting hairs?
I did not hit you, my stick did?
And Srila Prabhupada says the same thing, because Sridhara Maharaja was the chief adviser to the bogus guru program, he created (orchestrated) the problems, and what were the problems, crimes.
That was the result of his support, so that means he orchestrated problems by creating a Frankenstein monster. He did not kill people personally, but his Frankenstein monster killed people.
Srila Prabhupada essentially said -- SM created the Frankenstein monster that was killing people, and that is what Srila Prabhupada says happened in post-1936, there were crimes when SM supported bogus gurus, and this is what happened in post-1977 when SM supported another wave of false gurus. We also did not say we read the 1940s news media. We said, Srila Prabhupada said it was in the 1940s new media, we were not there in the 1940s? We said the post-77 media reported on Sridhara's post-77 criminal gurus in the West especially, and we were there for that and we read all that. This is all documented post-77 in the Western media. I did not hit you my stick did. Can you do better than that please, that is what 5 years olds argue? ys pd
No where does Prabhupada say the Sridhara orchestrated anything. the mother killed the son. that's it.
ReplyDelete[PADA: The mother killed the son because she was made the guru mata of the organization, and she was made the guru mata because Sridhara Maharaja made her husband the guru. So yes, Sridhara Maharaja promoted, created, orchestrated, however you want call it who cares, Sridhara Maharaja made / created /orchestrated / facilitated / Ananta Vasudeva being the acharya.
Now you are arguing grammar, whether making, promoting, orchestrating, facilitating, backing, have similar meanings. You never discuss how the victims were killed. You keep forgetting that after Sridhara Maharaja made this guru, and the result was, people were being killed. You never mention the victims, you are making some grammar battle whether "making or orchestrating" are similar grammatically. You are heartless, people are dying, and you are arguing grammar?]
You are saying that Sridhara orcehstrated bannings and beatings and murder, but that's not what Prabhupada is saying.
[PADA: That is what he said, after Sridhara Maharaja made Ananta Vasuvdeva the guru there was beatings and murders. Yes, that is exactly what he said. And we can prove that the gurus Sridhara Maharaja promoted / orchestrated / facilitated / backed / also caused beatings and murders after 1977.]
Then you say you didn't say it, then you say you did say it, then you say he didn't kill anyone, then you say he did kill people.
[PADA: His process kills people, yes.]
But prabhupada doesn't say any of the things you say he did. you put your own words and thoughts into Prabhupadas mouth and head. you can't even keep track of your own lies. go back and read what you have posted yourself. you have just revealed to all your readers what a liar and idiot you are. go re-read what you have posted, then delete it so your followers won't see it.
[PADA: I have not deleted anything. Sridhara Maharaja promoted / faciliated / empowered / created/ supported / orchestrated / a homosexual as his acharya in 1936, and the result was beatings and murders. AFTER THAT, then Sridhara Maharaja supported MORE homosexuals as his idea of gurus after 1977, and the result was beatings and murders.
That means Sridhara Maharaja's program is worse than Dr. Frankenstein's since, the Frankenstein monster is not hunting down Vaishnavas to harm them, like the program created by Sridhara Maharaja. You are more worried about grammar than people, that is the whole trouble with all of you. People are dying, you are arguing grammar, your hearts are made of cast iron. That is the problem since 1936. ys pd]
You have asked me for links to the crimes committed by the GBC gurus that Sridhara Maharaja supported? Dude, the public has seen all this in the newspapers since 1979. And we reported all this in the PADA news since forever, see the web site Harekrsna org. Are you sleeping under a rock! ys pd
ReplyDeleteSrila Prabhupada told us that people who dissented in 1936 were beaten and murdered. Never mind that, the people who dissented from Sridhara's gurus post 1978 were beaten and murdered. Where have you people been hiding! ys pd
ReplyDeleteOK so Sridhara Maharaja post-1936 promoted the worship of homosex and sex as the acharya, how is that a good idea? Then he supported the GBC post 1978, and they had the same problems. You are arguing with yourself. ys pd
ReplyDeleteWhether its a good idea or not, is not the point. the point is you say Sridhara orchestrated beatings and murder.
ReplyDelete[PADA: All of the newspapers in the USA printed stories about how the post-1977 gurus that Sridhara Maharaja supported -- creating beatings and murders?]
Prabhupada doesn't say that, and you cannot show anywhere in the media that he was. that is the point.
[PADA: The stories of the crimes created by Sridhara's post-1977 gurus was in all the media all over the usa. The crimes included murders.]
You have been called a liar for 35 years and now everyone can see exactly how you lie, how you cover for lies, how you put words into Prabhupada's mouth, thoughts in his head, he never said or thought. this is your delusion. he never said what you say he did, never told you Sridhara was responsible for murders and beatings. ever. you make this up and try to convince others that Prabhupada said, or told you. nope. never happened and you cannot prove it did. anyone could say Prabhupada said this and that, but no one accepts it without proof,
[PADA: And that is why the program of Sridhara's post-1977 gurus was sued for $400 million for children being molested, you all said its a lie, the courts said nope, Sridhara's guru program has orchestrated mass molesting. You folks said this is all lies, the courts said, nope, its a fact. Sorry, nobody believes your version of events, including the courts. Everyone believes my version, including the courts. ys pd]
*** No, that's not why. you like to divert attention and say, "and that's why..." no its not why. It was not Sridhara's program.
ReplyDelete[PADA: In January of 1977 Srila Prabhupada said that the leaders are not fit for sannyasa. Then in January of 1978, Sridhara Maharaja said that they are acharyas. If they are not fit for sannyasa, how are they fit to be acharyas? And it was well known these guys were falling down all the time? Srila Prabhupada never said they are fit for acharya?]
*** It was never Sridharaa's program, It was Prabhupada's program. Prabhupada gave them power, prabhupada endorsed them, Prabhupada knew they what they were capable of, and he let them loose on the world.
[PADA: Wrong. Srila Prabhupada never gave them the power to act as acharyas, rather he said they are not fit for sannyasa even.]
*** You should be blaming Prabhupada and not Sridhara.
[PADA: Srila Prabhupada had already said, suspend sannyasa, let them get married, he did not even think they were fit anymore for sannyasa. Of course the other problem is, Srila Prabhupada said he is being poisoned, and Sridhara Maharaja assumed that these apparent poisoners are acharyas. That is why Srila Prabhupada says, even if you unknowingly support deviations, you are guilty. So it seems from the fact we understand, that Sridhara Maharaja supported the people who assassinate pure devotees as acharyas. And yes, Narayana Maharaja then said that he agrees with PADA, that the poison issue is for real, even he agrees that the group that Sridhara Maharaja promoted as acharyas --- poisoned a pure devotee. Sorry the person who said these 11 people are acharyas in 1978 was Sridhara Maharaja. Srila Prabhupada never said that, but you are right, Sridhara unleashed them on the world just after they had acted like Judas. ys pd]
Sridhara had no power to let restrict them or empower them. you are placing the blame on Sridhara instead of where it should go, if you want to blame others for their behavior, on Prabhupada. He gave them sannyas, never took it away from them, never demoted them, allowed them to do as they pleased. He is responsible, not Sridhara. Sridhara was never part of ISKCON, he had no power over them, could not empower them or remove their power. you are barking up the wrong tree. They would have committed their crimes with or without ever meeting with him.
ReplyDelete[PADA: OK, they were told that they should suspend sannyasa in January of 1977. Sridhara Maharaja said they are acharyas in January of 1978. He said people should not protest. I was given a transcript where he told the GBC "none should protest." He knows people who protest bogus gurus can be killed. He was also told Jayatirtha was taking drugs and having sex with a female disciple, and he still said none should protest. He was their cheer leader, supporter, advocate and he helped them write their original position papers. He empowered them. Yes, he was not in the bank shooting the bank tellers, but he was driving the getaway car. He should have said, you'd better let people protest drugs and sex acharyas, because when we had that in our 1936 program, it ruined our mission. He told them to do what he knew was a deviation, that makes him a direct accomplice. The GBC circulated his papers and talks all over the place, he was their hand maiden. ys pd]
*** Your illogical link is bogus, Sridhara had nothing to do with what happened or didn't happen in 1977. you logic is faulty. He did not orchestrate anything and your trying to blame Sridhara for the crimes of Kirtanananda is illogical, completely. it is beyond stupid. Nowhere else on the planet do people think like that.
ReplyDelete[PADA: Except that Srila Prabhupada says Sridhara Maharaja is responsible for disobeying the orders and making a false guru. In his letter to Rupanuga, Srila Prabhupada says clearly that Sridhara Maharaja is responsible. Yes, the people who create false gurus are responsible for their actions. If I endorse a mass murderer as the town's police chief, then I'm responsible for the results. He is responsible, according to Srila Prabhupada.]
*** He had zero to do with anything. Even if he told them to go be gurus, that doesn't mean he has anything to do with their criminal behavior, it is the stupidest thing i have ever heard. nowhere on the planet do people make these inferences. that is like saying the neighbor of a serial killer is an accessory because he would wave hello and sometimes have a barbeque together. that is pure stupid and no one but you think like that. That would make you guilty of the crimes of innumerable people that you have come in contact with that have committed crimes themselves. we are not stupid like you and think like this.
[PADA: Sridhara Maharaja did not wave and say hello, he said your mass murderer neighbor is an acharya, and none should protest. He endorsed them, and then he said, no one should protest. Your example is not accurate, he did not just wave, he made statements, he had conversations with the GBC, he had his lectures on this topic made into position papers, he said that we need to make sure Ramesvara does not resign, he said Jayatirtha is an acharya even after he knew there were failings, he kept Hansadutta in the seat until almost 1985, he supported the mass criminals as messiahs. That is the point you keep missing. And Srila Prabhupada said that the people who support false acharyas, ok like Sridhara Maharaja, are responsible. ys pd]
Prabhupada never said that at all. He never said Sridhar was responsible.
ReplyDelete[PADA: No, in the Rupanuga letter he says Sridhara Maharaja is responsible for disobeying the orders of his guru maharaja, by creating a false acharya. We know Sridhara Maharaja is responsible for endorsing these bogus 11, because he said they are gurus.]
He said Homosex and sex. that's all.
[PADA: Sridhara's guru was homosex and sex, that's all that was wrong? Sheesh!]
You haven't proven anything. what Sridhara says or didn't say is irrelevant.
[PADA: No, he said the GBC are gurus, he endorsed them, backed them, promoted them, saved them when the rest of the GBC wanted to remove them, and kept propping up Hansadutta all the way to 1985. I was there, remember?]
He is not to blame for their behavior. they were criminals with or without him, why can't you see that. you just want to point the finger at someone, you can't possibly point it at Prabhupada, although he is responsible, so you try to link Sridhara. pathetic thinking of a pathetic low life such as yourself, to stoop to that low, you are lower than the lowest piece of trash, you cannot blame the person who is to blame, so you blame someone who had nothing to do with it. you want to put the blame of Sulochan's death on someone who had absolutely nothing to do with it. you are a sick sick person
[PADA: Well now you are trying to blame Srila Prabhupada for endorsing the 11 as gurus, when it was Sridhara. And all this after Srila Prabhupada said he was being poisoned. He was saying he was being poisoned, and that means, he supported them? Sorry, there is not a shred of evidence these people were appointed as gurus. You have never shown us a shred, you speculated. You are also not making any sense, he says they are poisoning him, so he endorsed them as gurus? Can't you guys at least try to make sense? ys pd]
OK, so Srila Prabhupada made them managers, and that means, Sridhara Maharaja is authorized to appoint them as acharyas? If I am the manager at IBM, that makes me almost as good as Jesus? That is what Sridhara Maharaja also did in 1936, he said that Ananta Vasudeva is almost as good as an acharya, so lets make him the acharya. That is like saying a kindergarten child is almost a PHD? Sorry, there is no evidence Srila Prabhupada appointed them as acharyas, Sridhara Maharaja is the person who said they are acharyas.
ReplyDeleteApart from that Srila Prabhupada said that his yeh sab friends are giving him poison, and then Sridhara Maharaja said the same yeh sab friends are acharyas. How would Srila Prabhupada say, the people who are apparently poisoning him, are ALSO his guru successors?
Anyway this is the whole problem with the Sridhara Maharaja group, you folks are blaming Srila Prabhupada for making them acharyas, when it was Sridhara Maharaja who made them acharyas. There is not one stick of documentation where Srila Prabhupada said the 11 are acharyas, but there is documentation that Sridhara Maharaja said the 11 are acharyas. The only existing documentation is, that Sridhara Maharaja appointed them as acharyas, there is no document where Srila Prabhupada did that.
We were also in San Francisco when Tripurari swami was trying to get voted in as a GBC guru, he thought that Kirtanananda could rubber stamp him as an acharya. Kirtanananda is the person who can annoint messiahs? Yes, Sridhara said the 11 are acharyas, and that included Kirtanananda, and the other people in your group were supporting Kirtanananda as a messiah, and even trying to get voted into his guru sabha. Sorry, Srila Prabhupada says, vahi bat ye hamko poison diye, someone is giving me poison here, that is not an endorsement of giving these same people a guru post, nor does this even make sense that this is an endorsement of such. ys pd
OK once again, the only documented statements saying the 11 are acharyas is coming from Sridhara Maharaja. There are no documented statements saying the 11 are acharyas coming from Srila Prabhupada. Sridhara Maharaja annointed the 11 as acharyas, that is what the documents state. ys pd
ReplyDeleteWe are not silent, we said above that there are no documents, actually zero, where Srila Prabhupada says the 11 are acharyas. Whereas there are many documents where Sridhara Maharaja says the 11 are acharyas. Thus the written evidence is, Sridhara Maharaja appointed the 11 as acharyas, there is no evidence, zero in fact, that Srila Prabhupada did. ys pd
ReplyDeleteI am not looking for any documents. We already have published the documents ages ago. There are no (NONE / ZERO) documented proofs that Srila Prabhupada appointed the 11 as acharyas. There ARE documents where Sridhara Maharaja says the 11 are acharyas. We already posted all these documents a long time ago? There are ALSO documents that Sridhara Maharaja appointed a homosexual as the guru in 1936. This is all well documented. Not looking for new documents, we have posted them already a long time ago. ys pd
ReplyDeleteThere are no documents where Srila Prabhupada appointed the 11 as gurus. Sridhara Maharaja said the 11 are appointed as gurus, that means, he appointed them, or he cheer leaded for them. or he annointed them, or he endorsed them, or he orchestrated their titles, or he advocated for them, or whatever you want to say, he empowered them in the post as acharyas, and then all of us people were systematically banned, beat, molested shot and killed. Bas. End of story. He empowered them, and people died as a result. ys pd
ReplyDeleteNo, it is not all the same. that is where you are wrong. You said he appointed them, no He was never in charge of ISKCON and that means could not have appointed them.
ReplyDelete[PADA: He said they had been appointed? That means he appointed them? No one else said they had been appointed? We said, they had not been appointed, and Sridhara Maharaja said we were wrong to protest. So he knew some of us were saying they were not appointed, that means, he appointed them? He said we cannot challenge the appointment, that means he did the appointing.]
Just because someone went to a football game and cheered for Aron Hernandez, does not make 40,000 football fans guilty of the murders he committed. don't be stupid. you can't understand that?
[PADA: He said they are appointed as gurus. That is like saying a conditioned soul is the re-incarnation of Jesus.]
He never appointed them because he was not in charge of them. stop trying to blame him. he did not empower them. they gave themselves power and 99 percent of ISKCON accepted. to0 bad for you. more went along with them than you. and you know what? more still go with them than you. but now you want to blame Someone who had nothing to do with their power grab. you think they would not have been gurus if he told them not to? they didn't listen to Prabhupada, why would they listen to Sridhara? your arguments go nowhere.
[PADA: Sridhara Maharaja said they are gurus, Srila Prabhupada never did. When we said they are not appointed, Sridhara Maharaja said none should protest, he kept them in the seat. He also rescued Ramesvara, Jayatirtha, Tamal and Hansadutta saying they need to stay in the guru seat, even when they were caught deviating. He was their self-appointed savior. Saving them got us killed. ys pd]
Thanks, yes we thought that's what you would say, that banning, beating, killing of our friends and associates, and mass child molesting etc. -- is for your Sridhara Maharaja people a giant "hah hah." Very typical of you Sridhara people, you make a violent guru cult, and laugh as you drive over your victims. That is what Charles Manson did we he was taken to court, he thought this was hilarious. Sheesh!
ReplyDeleteNo, that was never said anywhere. you have a habit of putting words into peoples mouths, lying and distorting the truth. I never said sridhar geta hah hah. I am not a Sridhara person. I am pointing out flaws in your arguments. 1. Prabhupada never said Sridhar awas responsible for murders or beating.
ReplyDelete[PADA: It does not matter, Sridhara Maharaja is the person who said the 11 are acharyas, and he said none should protest. That means he annointed the 11 as acharyas, there is no documentation that Srila Prabhupada said they are acharyas, there is documentation that Sridhara said they are acharyas. You are avoiding the documentation entirely.]
2. Prabhupada never made Sridhara an Acharya of ISKCON therefor he could not appoint them anything.
[PADA: Kamsa's advisors were not Kamsa, we never said they were Kamsa? You are making no sense? Kamsa had advisors, and the GBC advertised Sridhara as their advisor. The advisors to Stalin, were not Stalin, I never said they are?]
3. he is not guilty for any crimes committed by 11 gurus, just like the Police Chief is not guilty of crimes committed by officers on the street.
[PADA: If you say that deviants are messiahs, then you are responsible for the actions of those messiahs, because you endorsed their actions.]
Daryl Gates did not go on trial for beating Rodney King, just the cops that did the beating. 4. no one killed you. 5. by your own twisted logic, Prabhupada is responsible for the crimes of the gurus 100 times more than Sridhara.
[PADA: OK so now we are making progress, you are saying Srila Prabhupada is the person who made them acharyas, nope, Sridhara is the person who said they are acharyas. You have so far not shown one statement where Srila Prabhupad said they are acharyas, there is none, there are many statements where Sridhara is annointing them as acharyas. As for the Turley case, yes you people said all this is Srila Prabhupada's fault, and you spread that to the children victims of Sridhara's molester messiahs program, and unfortunately, they believed your propaganda. ys pd]
Martyr complex? As soon as we said Srila Prabhupada is complaining of poison, then the Narayana Maharaja and Sridhara Maharaja camp's initial reaction was, we are bogus for trying to make Srila Prabhupada appear as a martyr. It took us maybe 10 years or more, but we finally woke some of them at least. Even Narayana Maharaja finally surrendered -- after we beat his brain with shoes for ten years -- even he finally said, alright, there is a poison complaint, ok PADA is right, they poisoned him.
ReplyDeleteThis is not about any martyr complex, or complexes, its called -- looking at the facts of the case. That fact is -- that Sridhara Maharaja and Narayana Maharaja supported the people who apparently poisoned a pure devotee, as their idea of acharyas. That is like saying Judas is the successor to God, big mistake.
This is not connected to ANY martyrs or non-martyrs complexes, they goofed, and big time, by mistaking Judas to be the next messiah. They were fooled, that's all there is to it.
Now they are acting like the victims, oh PADA is picking on us for our saying Judas is the new acharya and messiah, they are the ones who have a victim / martyr complex, not us? We are not picking on anyone, we are establishing what factually happened and its a miracle they came on board at all, it took us forever just to convince them that deviants are not messiahs after 1978, then it took us another couple decades to convince them they are supporting criminal poisoners as messiahs, they are just slow as turtles, that's all there is to it. They are the ones who are crying that we are picking on them, they are the ones claiming to be victims, no, they had no authority to support deviants and poisoners as messiahs, plain and simple. ys pd
I have asked you a simple question. Who said that the 11 GBC are acharyas? Srila Prabhupada never did, then who did? Sridhara Maharaja did, he said the 11 are acharyas, and when we protested their illicit sex and drugs deviations in 1979, Sridhara Maharaja said "none should protest" -- because he openly promotes and wants to see illicit sex and drugs sitting in a vyasa seat.
ReplyDeleteSridhara Maharaja said that we need to keep Jayatirtha's illicit sex and drugs program in the vyasa seat, and he said we should not protest that process, Srila Prabhupada never said that. And so the Sridhara Maharaja people were already against us in 1979, when we said that are wrong to promote sex and drugs as messiahs.
He is the one who said we are wrong to protest, in fact he said none should protest, because he wants deviants to stay in the messiah's seat, even after he knew they were deviants. So he supports deviants as acharyas, and he did the same thing in 1936. Yes, this is a broken record because, you failed to address why he supports deviants as acharyas in post-1936 and post-1977?
And if we are being beaten and killed from his post 1977 gurus, then of course people were getting beaten and killed from his 1936 acharyas, because that is his track record, broken record pattern. The broken record that repeats here is Sridhara Maharaja, he supports deviants as acharyas in post-1936, then, same record repeats, he supports another wave of deviants as acharyas post 1977, and we all know that he get people banned, molested, beaten and killed by his support of false acharyas, because, they were our friends. And according to many of our friends, including some on the police force, we were not just lucky to have survived the Sridhara false gurus program, we are living because Krishna protected us from Sridhara and his violent guru cults, otherwise we'd not be living. Even our friends at the police say its a miracle we -- lived -- at all. ys pd
No one cares about PADA, its trailer trash and the National Inquirer, and the only people reading it are like the smelly old senile men at the supermarket who read the National Inquirer there. OK! Got it! Right, but you are still reading it every day? Are you senile then? This is why your pals like Mike cannot get a job and a girl friend, you are sitting around reading the National Inquirer all day. I think you people need someone to pray for you, seriously. ys pd
ReplyDelete*** I don't care what Sridhara said. anyone can say anything, just like you do. You say all kinds of nonsense things with no authority. Can you appoint a police chief and say no one should protest.
ReplyDelete[PADA: So why did Sridhara endorse them as acharyas? And why did he say we should not protest when they were taking drugs and engaging in illicit sex? Why doesn't Sridhara Maharaja know that illicit sex and drugs are not the quality of the acharyas? You got it, Sridhara Maharaja endorsed them as the cheif, even when he found out they were deviants, he said they have to stay.]
*** Yes you can. does that mean you have appointed a police chief NOPE show me where Srila Prabhupada gave Sridhara the Authority to make acharyas in Prabhupada's movement.
[PADA: That is the whole point, Srila Prabhupada writes that Sridhara Maharaja acted without authority in 1936 to make a false guru. He has no authority, we agree.]
*** If you cannot do that, then you are defeated. put up or shut up. show everyone where Prabhupada put Sridhara in charge and gave him the authority to make acharyas with ISKOCN. if you cannot do that, then your argument does not hold water and is bogus. you have one more chance to prove Prabhupada made Sridhara an acharya in ISKCON. why can't you answer that question? because you have no answer. answer that question, when did srila Prabhupada make Sridhara an Acharya in ISKCON and gave him power to promote Prabhupada's disciples? why would someone go to Sridhara's movement if he was Acharya of ISKCON? When did ...
[PADA: Sridhara Maharaja has no authority to declare that the 11 are acharyas. Thats all there is to it, and he had no authority to make a false guru in 1936, again thats all there is to it. Srila Prabhupada says that Sridhara Maharaja is the head of the severe offenders Bagh Bazaar party, and he is. I did not say that, he did. You are also not answering the original question, who authorized Sridhara Maharaja to promote illicit sex acharyas post-1936 and post 1977? ys pd]
There is no ad hominem. All the documents show that Srila Prabhupada never said the 11 are acharyas. All the document show that Sridhara Maharaja said the 11 are acharyas, and none should protest them even when they are deviating. Can we stick to what is documented? ys pd
ReplyDelete