PADA: Thanks prabhu, yes we have heard all these accusations against us before, that we are costing ISKCON an arm and a leg in court fees, and that means we are "destroying ISKCON." Yep, and its "all your fault" for stirring up these issues -- like the bogus guru appointment and child abuse issues -- in the first place. We are sorry that you believe we are to blame for all this expense. Really, we are to blame for causing these issues to be an expense for ISKCON? And all this apparently proves we are "working with the demons."
Whoah! Lets not get too hasty before you burn us at the stake here, lets back up a minute. This all started when lots of people -- including many / most of the rank and file ISKCON devotees and almost all the ISKCON leaders -- said that both the PADA editor and Sulochana are LIARS. which is what most of them said all along when all this started in the late 1970s / early 1980s. We both reported child abuse and other crimes, and it fell on deaf ears. And that is EVENTUALLY why the whole program of the GBC's post-1977 gurus were sued for $400 million due to children being abused, because (almost) no one listened to us.
At that time, a friend of us and Sulochana compared our "expose program" to the "lone wolves in the dark that no one hears." Worse, almost everyone said at the time -- its all lies. Whose version did the court EVENTUALLY accept? Sorry, we gave all this fair warning starting from the early 1980s, because the court case was not until 17 years later.
And when the $400m child abuse case finally went to court, the GBC immediately pleaded "no contest," because even they had to admit PADA is correct. Of course you are also right, the GBC lost untold millions more after New Vrndavana was raided and etc. And this too is all our fault? How! We told the leaders over and over that the New Vrndavana program is a powder keg, it had better be contained or it will explode in your faces, they ignored us, then it exploded. This is our fault?
How come the only way to save the children from fatal levels of depression, and get the truth of this issue out, was in "the demon courts"? Why didn't the mass of ISKCON parents come to our aid and support our complaints, way back in the early 1980s, way before there was any discussion of a "demon court case"? So it seems clear to us -- that the rank and file and leaders should have listened to us. Instead, the rank and file largely ignored us, and some of the leaders tried to have us assassinated. That is not our fault, that they did not listen? How can that be our fault?
We even said, this will eventually be a lawsuit -- if you do not take care of these children. And many leaders said to us, ok so what, take us to court over the treatment of children issue. And many rank and file said we were "offenders" for even making this an issue.
And this was the same problem in the 1980s in Berkeley when we made friends with Officer Joe Sanchez, the Hansadutta devotees said at the time we are "associated with the demon police." OK, except the "demon police" have to keep us alive from -- you and your devotee assassinating cult? Are you saying, just because we are rabbits we should just roll over -- and enter the mouth of the lion willingly? Nope, we might run like the wind and hide under a log, that is called common sense?
And when the child abuse case went to court to save the ISKCON children, because a growing number of them were dying in despair at the time, again, saving them was the work of "the demons"? OK since the children are dying in your program's hands -- and thus "the demons" have to rip the children out of the hands of your bogus group -- to save them from dying, what does that say about your program? Yes, Windle Turley has no idea what Vaishnavism is. Yes he wears snake skin boots and maybe drinks Johnny Walker, but he did understand that we should not allow ISKCON's children to die, whereas you folks, not only did not understand that point, you thought it was bad the children were being saved.
What does that say about your group? The children are dying in your program's hands, so "the demons" have to rip the children from your hands, in order to save them and keep them alive? Worse, you are complaining that the children even survived. Does this not make you worse than "the demons." Now you are upset that we lived, and some children lived? That sounds demon to us, with all due respect.
Of course the Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad program said -- these children should simply just die. Dead children always solves their mis-behaving! Works every time! And Pralhad says he wants to help the GBC goondas come and kill us, because he is against our saving the children. So again, its always the demons who are looking like saints compared to your group, since the demons have no interest in seeing the dead corpses of the Vaishnavas, in fact -- the "demon police and demon courts," want us to live.
That means what you are really saying is, "the demons" had to save us in Berkeley, and then "the demons" had to save the children from dying in your hands, i.e. in your program. OK is this not an admission that "the demons" are much more advanced than your process? The demon police had to save us from your program, then the demon courts had to save the ISKCON children from dying in your hands, its like you are making open advertising for -- "the demons" as being significantly more advanced than yourselves?
The "loyalists" wanted to have us and Sulochana killed, then the loyalists either wanted to suppress the children, or maybe have children killed, then, the demons had to save us -- and save the children, from your party? What kind of program do you have here prabhu, with all due respect? Without the demons, your program would have us killed, children killed etc. So, the demons are more advanced than your program? Not sure what your point is?
OK, all this means you never answered the original question, if the "demons" have to save children from dying in your hands, save us from dying in your hands, then what? Us and Sulochana are dying in your hands, the children are dying in your hands, and the only cavalry to arriving to save us is "the demons," they are the only ones left to save us, does not that mean you folks are -- less than the demons?
Thus, under the GBC/ Prahlad plan, ... we should not have worked with the demon police, and we would have died. Then, the demon courts had to save the ISKCON children. Another bad idea, let everyone just die. Hmmm, and the leader of the Boka Haram cult in Nigeria just made a video where he was saying, "kill, kill, kill, kill, kill." Is this the way to fix things? Sorry, you have not explained why "the demons" had to be called to save the devotees in the first place? How did the demon police even get involved at all? Why were the lives of us and the children simply flies on your windscreen, who should just die in silence?
Some folks like Prahlad still say we are liars, because he is another cover up for child abuse just like Kirtanananda was, but the courts said nope, Prahlad, Kirtanananda, all these people are big fat liars, and PADA is correct, this guru program has been orchestrating mass molesting, and now the victims are feeling like the no longer want to live even. This was all settled by the "demons," because hardly no one else cared apparently? That is the history here, many of your bogus cult folks said -- this is all lies, and some of your bogus cult people still say its all lies, but the courts said, nope, its a fact. Why is this our fault, that all these people, including apparently your good self, refused to listen to us, and it had to go to court?
Sorry, almost nobody believes our opponents version of any of these events, including the courts. The courts and the mass of public all believes our version, yes -- including the police, FBI and courts. OK that means, only a few idiots of the bogus cult do not believe us, but the mass of people do, that is to say the millions of people who have read about these things, seen it on TV etc. they ALL believe us. So millions agree with us, a few cranks do not? This is our fault? And if we had not gone to the demon police, we'd be dead, children would have died of chronic depression etc. -- so are you saying that is a good idea? Why do "the demons" know that is not a good idea, and you do not?
We are honestly not too worried about a few bogus cranks in a bogus cult who oppose us, we proved them to be wrong time and time again. So now, lets see our critics just fork over the $400m and get it over with. So yes, we are told that the GBC had to spend allegedly $30 millions on the abuse case, and now they are allegedly spending $20 million on the Bangalore case, trying to fight our idea that Srila Prabhupada is the acharya, all total = $50m. We have heard this all before, this is your fault, sorry this is NOT all our fault. And maybe people should have listened to us -- if they wanted to save $50m?
OK, maybe, just maybe -- if they had listened to us, it would not have cost them a penny? We do not see how its our fault these people did not listen to us, and they tried to suppress us? Anyway, its seems the main problem you folks are having is, the police, FBI, courts and media agree with our version, and they barely do not accept anyone else's version? Apart from that, what is your alternate version?
And now many devotees, including the IB folks also agree with PADA's version and they provide links to our sites on theirs. Sorry, but we simply do not see how we can be blamed for all this, its like blaming the guy who shouted "iceberg" just before the Titanic was sinking. He was trying to save the ship. You are blaming the messenger.
Worse, we think Srila Prabhupada was mistreated terribly in the hands of your program, and we are getting minor problems compared to what he was dealing with. One of our God brothers recently said we are dealing with "a pack of villains." Seems your group has not got much credibility these days. ys pd]
Whoah! Lets not get too hasty before you burn us at the stake here, lets back up a minute. This all started when lots of people -- including many / most of the rank and file ISKCON devotees and almost all the ISKCON leaders -- said that both the PADA editor and Sulochana are LIARS. which is what most of them said all along when all this started in the late 1970s / early 1980s. We both reported child abuse and other crimes, and it fell on deaf ears. And that is EVENTUALLY why the whole program of the GBC's post-1977 gurus were sued for $400 million due to children being abused, because (almost) no one listened to us.
At that time, a friend of us and Sulochana compared our "expose program" to the "lone wolves in the dark that no one hears." Worse, almost everyone said at the time -- its all lies. Whose version did the court EVENTUALLY accept? Sorry, we gave all this fair warning starting from the early 1980s, because the court case was not until 17 years later.
And when the $400m child abuse case finally went to court, the GBC immediately pleaded "no contest," because even they had to admit PADA is correct. Of course you are also right, the GBC lost untold millions more after New Vrndavana was raided and etc. And this too is all our fault? How! We told the leaders over and over that the New Vrndavana program is a powder keg, it had better be contained or it will explode in your faces, they ignored us, then it exploded. This is our fault?
How come the only way to save the children from fatal levels of depression, and get the truth of this issue out, was in "the demon courts"? Why didn't the mass of ISKCON parents come to our aid and support our complaints, way back in the early 1980s, way before there was any discussion of a "demon court case"? So it seems clear to us -- that the rank and file and leaders should have listened to us. Instead, the rank and file largely ignored us, and some of the leaders tried to have us assassinated. That is not our fault, that they did not listen? How can that be our fault?
We even said, this will eventually be a lawsuit -- if you do not take care of these children. And many leaders said to us, ok so what, take us to court over the treatment of children issue. And many rank and file said we were "offenders" for even making this an issue.
And this was the same problem in the 1980s in Berkeley when we made friends with Officer Joe Sanchez, the Hansadutta devotees said at the time we are "associated with the demon police." OK, except the "demon police" have to keep us alive from -- you and your devotee assassinating cult? Are you saying, just because we are rabbits we should just roll over -- and enter the mouth of the lion willingly? Nope, we might run like the wind and hide under a log, that is called common sense?
We cwazy wabbits will run our socks off!
And when the child abuse case went to court to save the ISKCON children, because a growing number of them were dying in despair at the time, again, saving them was the work of "the demons"? OK since the children are dying in your program's hands -- and thus "the demons" have to rip the children out of the hands of your bogus group -- to save them from dying, what does that say about your program? Yes, Windle Turley has no idea what Vaishnavism is. Yes he wears snake skin boots and maybe drinks Johnny Walker, but he did understand that we should not allow ISKCON's children to die, whereas you folks, not only did not understand that point, you thought it was bad the children were being saved.
The demons have had to save the children from -- your program?
What does that say about your group? The children are dying in your program's hands, so "the demons" have to rip the children from your hands, in order to save them and keep them alive? Worse, you are complaining that the children even survived. Does this not make you worse than "the demons." Now you are upset that we lived, and some children lived? That sounds demon to us, with all due respect.
Of course the Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad program said -- these children should simply just die. Dead children always solves their mis-behaving! Works every time! And Pralhad says he wants to help the GBC goondas come and kill us, because he is against our saving the children. So again, its always the demons who are looking like saints compared to your group, since the demons have no interest in seeing the dead corpses of the Vaishnavas, in fact -- the "demon police and demon courts," want us to live.
That means what you are really saying is, "the demons" had to save us in Berkeley, and then "the demons" had to save the children from dying in your hands, i.e. in your program. OK is this not an admission that "the demons" are much more advanced than your process? The demon police had to save us from your program, then the demon courts had to save the ISKCON children from dying in your hands, its like you are making open advertising for -- "the demons" as being significantly more advanced than yourselves?
The "loyalists" wanted to have us and Sulochana killed, then the loyalists either wanted to suppress the children, or maybe have children killed, then, the demons had to save us -- and save the children, from your party? What kind of program do you have here prabhu, with all due respect? Without the demons, your program would have us killed, children killed etc. So, the demons are more advanced than your program? Not sure what your point is?
OK, all this means you never answered the original question, if the "demons" have to save children from dying in your hands, save us from dying in your hands, then what? Us and Sulochana are dying in your hands, the children are dying in your hands, and the only cavalry to arriving to save us is "the demons," they are the only ones left to save us, does not that mean you folks are -- less than the demons?
Thus, under the GBC/ Prahlad plan, ... we should not have worked with the demon police, and we would have died. Then, the demon courts had to save the ISKCON children. Another bad idea, let everyone just die. Hmmm, and the leader of the Boka Haram cult in Nigeria just made a video where he was saying, "kill, kill, kill, kill, kill." Is this the way to fix things? Sorry, you have not explained why "the demons" had to be called to save the devotees in the first place? How did the demon police even get involved at all? Why were the lives of us and the children simply flies on your windscreen, who should just die in silence?
Some folks like Prahlad still say we are liars, because he is another cover up for child abuse just like Kirtanananda was, but the courts said nope, Prahlad, Kirtanananda, all these people are big fat liars, and PADA is correct, this guru program has been orchestrating mass molesting, and now the victims are feeling like the no longer want to live even. This was all settled by the "demons," because hardly no one else cared apparently? That is the history here, many of your bogus cult folks said -- this is all lies, and some of your bogus cult people still say its all lies, but the courts said, nope, its a fact. Why is this our fault, that all these people, including apparently your good self, refused to listen to us, and it had to go to court?
Sorry, almost nobody believes our opponents version of any of these events, including the courts. The courts and the mass of public all believes our version, yes -- including the police, FBI and courts. OK that means, only a few idiots of the bogus cult do not believe us, but the mass of people do, that is to say the millions of people who have read about these things, seen it on TV etc. they ALL believe us. So millions agree with us, a few cranks do not? This is our fault? And if we had not gone to the demon police, we'd be dead, children would have died of chronic depression etc. -- so are you saying that is a good idea? Why do "the demons" know that is not a good idea, and you do not?
We are honestly not too worried about a few bogus cranks in a bogus cult who oppose us, we proved them to be wrong time and time again. So now, lets see our critics just fork over the $400m and get it over with. So yes, we are told that the GBC had to spend allegedly $30 millions on the abuse case, and now they are allegedly spending $20 million on the Bangalore case, trying to fight our idea that Srila Prabhupada is the acharya, all total = $50m. We have heard this all before, this is your fault, sorry this is NOT all our fault. And maybe people should have listened to us -- if they wanted to save $50m?
OK, maybe, just maybe -- if they had listened to us, it would not have cost them a penny? We do not see how its our fault these people did not listen to us, and they tried to suppress us? Anyway, its seems the main problem you folks are having is, the police, FBI, courts and media agree with our version, and they barely do not accept anyone else's version? Apart from that, what is your alternate version?
And now many devotees, including the IB folks also agree with PADA's version and they provide links to our sites on theirs. Sorry, but we simply do not see how we can be blamed for all this, its like blaming the guy who shouted "iceberg" just before the Titanic was sinking. He was trying to save the ship. You are blaming the messenger.
Worse, we think Srila Prabhupada was mistreated terribly in the hands of your program, and we are getting minor problems compared to what he was dealing with. One of our God brothers recently said we are dealing with "a pack of villains." Seems your group has not got much credibility these days. ys pd]
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