Kailash Chandra / Rocana Program Shadows Bogus GBC's?

Kailash Chandra dasa (Rocana's Ghost Writer)

EJ: Kailasa spends virtually all his energy attacking the ISKCON institution. Maybe 1 article in 20 is attacking rittvik. He is pretty sectarian in his own right. No doubt some institutionalists like his anti-rittvik stuff. He agrees with them on that, but he is in no way a cheer leader for the GBC. Your interpretation is that Srila Prabhupada still wants to initiate after his physical departure. This is hardly self-evident due to all of his statements that he wanted his disciples to become guru. This is mukya pramana, or the direct meaning. Yet you apparently say that all devotees who accept those are not exclusively worshiping him. Great quotes. ys, EJ

PADA: Yes however, Kailash has been quoted all along by various GBC people and still is, and he was hanging out with Trivrikrama Maharaja and others writing papers for the ISKCON GBC's folks. And then, the GBC's folks were distributing his papers all along and they still send his stuff to me now. Yes, Kailash thinks the neophyte followers were meant to be diksha gurus and absorb sins like Jesus etc. 

And that is what the GBC says, and that is why the GBC folks quote him all along. Srila Prabhupada said if we neophytes become diksha gurus we will be absorbing sins and this will make us get sick, fall down, or both, and many have died early due to these illnesses and fall downs (from taking sins?). Yes, only a pure devotee can be the diksha guru, and there has been a failure of efforts to do otherwise. And if the bhogha and disciples are not offered to the acharya, then who else should they be offered to? 

A Kailash groupie could not even answer this basic question recently. The GBC says there will be some "others" acting as the acharya, and so does Kailash, that is why they promote his writing and GBC folks have done so for decades. As for mukhya pramana, saying that some "other" will be the diksha guru and not being able to give his name is, according to Srila Prabhupada, mayavada. 

Srila Prabhupada says, a person has to give the name of the guru or else he is mayavada. To say some amorphous group of disciples will be guru is -- mayavada, there has to be a specific person named. There has to be the specific names of the specific links in the parampara, and that is why Srila Prabhupada takes a lot of time and trouble to name them. To say some unnamed member of a large group of disciples may or may not be the next link is speculation and impersonalism. No wonder GBC people love to quote his works. ys pd

EJ: There will be real acaryas in the future because Krishna wants that. The parampara will continue with someone after Srila Prabhupada. Not giving his or their names right now is hardly mayavada. Just because we have seen a lot of broken glass pretenders since 1978 doesn't mean there won't be another diamond. The spiritual sky is full of them. Actually GBC loyalists also say that Kailasa agrees with the rittviks on many points and that he is like them (you). Gots to go. I like you Puranjana prabhu. I am always indebted because you gave me the Guru Business. ys, EJ

PADA: There may or may not be future acharyas, again this is speculation on the future. Kailash groupies could not even answer my first question, who do we offer the bhogha and disciples to? So that is mayavada, they cannot even name any specific person who is the path to make these offerings. We have a religion where no one knows who to offer the bhogha and disciples to, and who is the actual current link to God? 

Any brand new bhakta is our system knows the answer to this point right away. And GBC loyalists have loved Kailash all along because he agrees with their speculation that "someone else" could be, should be, might be, supposedly is, the next acharya. Mano rathena. If they have no name of the specific person who is the specific link now, that is of course mayavada. No name = mayavada. Kailash cannot name anyone at all either, he just says "some disciples" could be, might be, will maybe become, will eventually be -- but who knows for sure, yep its all someone "should have been, could have been, might have been, will maybe become (but who knows?)" etc ... its all speculation. 

All glories to -- nobody. Of course that is mayavada, what else could that be? All glories to nobody is about as mayavada as it gets. Hee hee! Yes, the Professor tells all of his kindergarten children, "I want all of you to become PHD brain surgeons." That is fine, but it does not mean one, some, or any have become that already. 

A devotee recently asked me to summarize in one sentence the whole problem I am having with various premature gurus and Kailash types and so on, and my answer was "they want anyone else, or even everyone else, to be the guru -- as long as its not Srila Prabhupada." Thought that sums it up well. As for Sukadeva and many thousands of others like them, they voted with their feet, and left that process because they wanted to emphasize Srila Prabhupada. ys pd

EJ: Puranjana prabhu, Pranams. Jaya Srila Prabhupada. I should know what Kailasa Candra dasa says having spent between 1986 and 2012 with him. He isn't saying what you write he says. He says people should worship Srila Prabhupada and offer bhoga to him. If they find someone bona fide to surrender to then they can change that. What you write about him is mostly sectarian politics, much like negative campaign ads where making opponents look bad makes you look good by comparison. 

Despite your attempts to make your rittvik theory appear uniquely bona fide sanatana dharma, those who sincerely serve Srila Prabhupada still keep him in the center, simply because he is the last bona fide link in the sampradaya. Many just disagree that he is still wanting to accept disciples. Can't we move on from all this mudslinging?

PADA: Haribol prabhu. Kailash is the person who says that Srila Prabhupada is not the source of diksha and so does Rocana? Srila Prabhupada is not the source of "divyam jnanam which destroys sins" aka diksha? Then who is? They say Srila Prabhupada is more like a temple pot washer aka a shiksha devotee. 

I am quoting from the many papers Kailash and Rocana write? They say what the GBC says, that Srila Prabhupada is the posthumous, post samadhi, i.e. post mortem person, and he is not only that, he is another neophyte temple sevaka "shiksha" only devotee. You really need to read what they say? Rocana also commonly refers to Srila Prabhupada as the posthumous, post samadhi (post mortem) person, its on his site regularly. 

And Kailash writes papers which the GBC folks send me on a regular basis, saying Srila Prabhupada is not the current diksha acharya for ISKCON? Of course they never tell us who is the source of divyam jnanam which destroys sins -- aka diksha -- except Rocana says we need to have tighter management of their GBC voted in diksha acharyas. He thinks he is the boss of the parampara, he is going to manage and contain it. Its in his constitution. If we offer bhogha to the acharya, then we cannot offer the new disciples to the acharya? 

That makes no sense at all, we offer everything to the acharya, the bhogha, the disciples, etc. And that is why they are not making any training program of anyone. And Kailash and Rocana live like isolated hermits. They do not want to offer people to Krishna via the parampara and so they cannot move forward, same with both Kailash and Rocana. Meanwhile! We are making devotees because we have a system to place them into shelter of the acharyas, they do not have such a process. That should be self evident? 

Remember the Rocana "guru reformers"? They said Srila Prabhupada is the posthumous, post samadhi, i.e. post mortem person, I recall all that vividly. And they still say that? And if these people are for unity, why do these folks always preach against what we are doing, and the GBC people cite them as authority? I have to also say that when Sulochana heard Rocana and the reformer pals were calling Prabhupada the posthumous, post samadhi person, he said, these people are totally envious of the acharyas and they think their material bodies are important because they are so-called living. How can we unify with that? 

Of course the next problem is, Kailash says we cannot initiate people, so that means there will be no more deity cooks or poojaris. Wow! Krishna has to starve now? Why would someone want to starve Krishna? ys pd

Pope Concerned Church Will "Lose All Credibility"

https://www.yahoo.com/news/catholic-bishops-told-act-sex-abuse-lose-credibility-160015377.html

Five Main Topics of Bhagavad Gita (Gita Jayanti)

https://www.iskconbangalore.org/blog/five-topics-of-bhagavad-gita/

Russian Video Promoting -- Violence Against GBC Dissenters?

PADA: Yep! Clearly our expose of the ISKCON GBC's bogus guru process is infiltrating their regime and is gradually degrading down / eating apart / eroding away their process. And this video says as much, people are criticizing the GBC's gurus and this is taking their system down. And thus, some of them are getting more strident about taking more severe steps against us "critics and dissenters." This is the same type of lectures they were giving here in the 1980s.

Problem is, taking more severe steps against us was already done in the USA, and that process back fired on them severely after Sulochana was assassinated. Then, their properties were raided by the police. Then, there was bad media and then they lost many thousands of people from these scandals and so on. 

Of course, then we were invited to speak on various TV shows; Invited to help professional writers write the book "Monkey On A Stick"; And we were asked to help the police and FBI with other criminal matters; And we have subsequently helped with other books, media, TV and publications etc. In sum, using violence does not always end well. And more recently, we helped advise the book "Killing for Krishna." And we will be helping the same author with an upcoming publication.

Meanwhile! My friends at the police are also mortified and simply astonished at the types of threatening messages we have got from various "devotees" over the years. And they sometimes joke with me "these people are claiming to be vegetarians, but they clearly want to drink your blood." Hah hah! The police are always amazed at how these "nice gentlemen, peace loving Krishna's" want to chop up and kill the other people who chant Hare Krishna. Then again, the Los Angeles police simply told me, "Stay away from Watseka, these people want to kill you." 

In sum, anyone who has opposes their enforced cult ritualistic worship of deviants as messiahs process is -- an enemy, who should be taken out, and maybe, taken out with violence. This is both good news and bad news. The good news is, our educating program is working. The bad news is, trying to apparently foment violence sometimes works -- and then this creates another huge scandal and even more bad image for the Krishna's, or those claiming to be His devotees at least.

Anyway, its interesting that the same technique that was used against us in the 1980s is now being taken up over in other places. That means, our educating process is spreading to these other places. At this point, I really do not think that they can orchestrate another anti-Sulochana type program anymore. How many people really believe these guys are pure devotees? Not so much? The other good news is -- we have recently made some good contacts in other foreign places, and our Prabhupadanuga's process is making headway in other instances. Jayate! ys pd  

Moksada Ekadasi Dec 18th 2018

Today is the day Lord Krsna spoke the Bhagavad Gita! It’s also Moksada Ekadasi which is a very special Ekadasi, it’s the all auspicious day on which Lord Sri Krishna spoke the Srimad Bhagavad Gita to Arjuna on the battlefield of Kurukshetra, at the place now known as Jyotisha tirtha.

Anyone who gives a Bhagavad Gita to a deserving person on this day is bestowed profuse blessings by Sri Bhagavan Krsna. Simply by hearing this history one can attain the merit earned by performing a great sacrifice.

The Ancient History of Mokshada Ekadasi from Brahmanda Purana:

Yudhishthira Maharaj said, "O Vishnu, master of all, O delight of the three worlds, O Lord of the entire Universe, O creator of the world, O oldest personality, O best of all beings, I offer my most respectful obeisances unto You.

"O Lord of lords, for the benefit of all living entities, kindly answer some questions that I have. What is the name of the Ekadasi that occurs during the light fortnight of the month of Margashirsha (November-December) and removes all sins?

How does one observe it properly, and which Deity is worshipped on that holiest of days? O my Lord please explain this to me in full."

Lord Sri Krsna replied, "O dear Yudhishthira, your enquiry is very auspicious in itself and will bring you fame. Just as I previously explained to you about the dearest Utpannaa Maha-Dwadasi - which occurs during the dark part of the month of Margashirsha, which is the day when Ekadasi-devi appeared from My body to kill the demon Mura, and which benefits everything animate and inanimate in the three worlds - so I shall now relate to you regarding this Ekadasi that occurs during the light part of the month of Margashirsha.

This Ekadasi is famous as Moksada because it purifies the faithful devotee of all sinful reactions and bestows liberation upon him. The worshipable Deity of this all auspicious day is Lord Damodar. With full attention one should worship Him with incense, a ghee lamp, fragrant flowers, and Tulsi manjaris (buds).

"O best of saintly kings, please listen as I narate to you the ancient and auspicious history of this wonderful Ekadasi. Simply by hearing this history one can attain the merit earned by performing a great sacrifice. By the influence of this merit, one's forefathers, mothers, sons, and other relatives who have gone to hell can turn around and go to the heavenly kingdom. For this reason alone, O king, you should listen with rapt attention to this narration.

"There once was a beautiful city named Champaka-nagar, which was decorated with devoted Vaishnavas. There the best of saintly kings Maharaj Vaikhaanasa, ruled over his subjects as if they were his very own dear sons and daughters.
The brahmins in that capital city were all expert in four kinds of Vedic knowledge. 

The king, while ruling properly, had a dream one night in which his father was seen to be suffering the pangs of hellish torture in one of the hellish planets ruled over by the Yamaraj. The king was overwhelmed with compassion for his father and shed tears. The next morning, Maharaj Vaikhaanasa described what he had seen in his dream to his council of twice born learned brahmins.

"'O brahmanas,' the king addressed them, 'in a dream last night I saw my father suffering on a hellish planet. He was crying out in anguish, "O son, please deliver me from this torment of this hellish condition!"

Now I have no peace in my mind, and even this beautiful kingdom has become unbearable to me. Not even my horses, elephants, and chariots and my vast wealth in my treasury that formerly brought so much pleasure, gives me no pleasure at all.

"'Everything, O best of the brahmins, even my own wife and sons, have become a source of unhappiness since I beheld my father suffering the tortures of that hellish condition so.

Where can I go, and what can I do, O brahmins, to alleviate this misery?
My body is burning with fear and sorrow! Please tell me what kind of charity, what mode of fasting, what austerity, or what deep meditation, and in service upon which Deity I may have to perform to deliver my father from that agony and bestow upon liberation upon my forefathers.

O best among the brahmins, what is the use of one's being a powerful son if one's father must suffer on a hellish planet? Truly, such a son's life is utterly useless, to him and to his forefathers.

"The twice born brahmins replied, 'O king, in the mountainous forest not far from here is the ashram where a great saint Parvata Muni resides. Please go to him, for he is tri-kala-jnani (he knows the past, the present, and the future of everything) and can surely help you in your gaining relief from your misery.'

"Upon hearing this advise, the distressed king immediately set out on a journey to the ashram of the famous sage Parvata Muni. The ashram was indeed very big and housed many learned sages expert in chanting the sacred hymns of the four Vedas (Rg, Yajur, Sama, and Arthava). Approaching the holy ashram, the king beheld Parvata Muni seated among the assembly of sages adorned with hundreds of tilaks (from all the authorised sampradayas) like another Brahma or Vyasadeva. 

"Maharaj Vaikhaanasa offered his humble obeisances to the muni, bowing his head and then prostrating his entire body before him. After the king had seated himself among the assembly Parvata Muni asked him about the welfare of the seven limbs of his extensive kingdom (his ministers, his treasury, his military forces, his allies, the brahmins, the sacrificial offerings performed, and the needs of his subjects).

The muni also asked him if his kingdom was free of troubles and whether everyone was peaceful, happy and satisfied. To these enquiries the king replied, 'By your mercy O glorious and great sage, all seven limbs of my kingdom are doing very well. Yet there is a problem that has recently arisen, and to solve it I have come to you, O brahmana for your expert help and guidance'.

"Then Parvata Muni, the best of all sages, closed his eyes and meditated on the king's past, present and future. After a few moments he opened his eyes and said, 'Your father is suffering the results of committing a great sin, and I have discovered what it is. In his previous life he quarrelled with his wife and forcibly enjoyed her sexually during her menstrual period. 

"She tried to protest and resist his advances and even yelled out, "Someone please save me! Please, O husband, do not interrupt my monthly period in this way!" Still he did not stop or leave her alone. It is on account of this grievous sin that your father now has fallen into such a hellish condition of suffering. 

"King Vaikhaanasa then said, 'O greatest among sages, by what process of fasting or charity may I liberate my dear father from such a condition?
Please tell me how I can relieve and remove the burden of his sinful reactions, which are a great obstacle to his progress toward ultimate release (salvation - liberation - going back home).'

"Parvata Muni replied, 'During the light fortnight of the month of Margashirsha there occurs an Ekadasi called Mokshadaa. If you observe this sacred Ekadasi strictly, with a full fast, and give directly to your suffering father the merit you thus attain, he will be freed from his pain and instantly liberated'.

"Hearing this, Maharaj Vaikhaanasa profusely thanked the great sage and then returned to his palace to perform his vrata (austere rite). O Yudhishthira, when the light part of the month of Margashirsha at last arrived, Maharaj Vaikhaanasa faithfully waited for the Ekadasi tithi to arrive. He then perfectly and with full faith observed the Ekadasi fast with his wife, children, and other relatives.
He dutifully gave the merit from this fast to his father, and as he made the offering, beautiful flower petals showered down from the devas who peered out from behind the clouds in the sky.

The king's father was then praised by the messengers of the demigods (devas) and escorted to the celestial region. As he passed his son, as he traversed the lower to middle to higher planets, the father said to the king, 'My dear son, all auspiciousness unto you!' At last he reached the heavenly realm from where he can again with his newly acquired merit perform devotional service to Krsna or Vishnu and in due course return back to home back to Godhead.

"O son of Pandu, who soever strictly observes the sacred Moksada Ekadasi, following the established rules and regulations, achieves full and perfect liberation after death. There is no better fasting day than this Ekadasi of the light fortnight of the month of Margashirsha, O Yudhishthira, for it is a crystal-clear and sinless day.

Whoever faithfully observes this Ekadasi fast, which is like chinta-mani (a gem that yields all desires), obtains special merit that is very hard to calculate, for this day can elevate one from hellish life to the heavenly planets, and for one who observes Ekadasi for his own spiritual benefit, this elevates one to go back to Godhead, never to return to this material world."

Thus end the narration of the glories of Margashirsha-shukla Ekadasi or Mokshada Ekadasi, from the Brahmanda Purana.

Indian Government Officials Want Garlic, Onions and Eggs Added to Mid-day meals

https://www.newsclick.in/mid-day-meals-iskcon-agency-flouts-govt-guidelines-refuses-onion-garlic-after-refusing-eggs?

https://www.opindia.com/2018/12/activist-opposing-akshaya-patras-mid-day-meal-contract-thinks-brahmins-obstruct-indias-development/?


PADA: Yep, India is going off the rails of Vedic Culture. So many signs are there! Its also amazing that when so many children are suffering from nutrition problems if not hunger, stunted growth and the like, some leaders would want to curb, curtail (if not stop) a program that is feeding them! ys pd

Discussion of "Appointment Tape" with Gauridasa Pandit prabhu

https://www.facebook.com/jaigopaldas108/videos/10214148017237830/

Gauridasa Pandit: Newsflash! A major breakthrough! Srila Prabhupada is the Guru for all of us who accept him and follow him. Tamal Krsna Maharaja tells the truth on initiations on a video. Admits that I was there during these talks. Here’s my report on what I heard: 'On My Behalf.'

http://www.harekrsna.de/reform/e_pr_omb.htm

Tamal Krishna Goswami admits that they are only ritviks. Watch the video to know the truth. I feel vindicated to hear this video after all these decades of being called a liar and mistreated by many of the leaders and devotees in general who have been misled by the leaders. All glories to our Srila Prabhupada!

DD: Justice came slowly but surely.

BS: You were there. But it still doesn't answer the Ritvik question.

Guridasa Pandita: It’s a short clip where TKG admits that I was there when Srila Prabhupada appointed Ritvik Representatives to initiate on his behalf after his departure.

PP: Except that short does not say that second part. He admits you were there.

Gauridasa Pandita: A Realization and Plea From A Fallen ISKCON Guru. This is the letter Hansadutta wrote to Kirtanananda to admit they had only been appointed as ritviks.

Dear Kirtanananda Maharaj

Please accept my humble obeisances.

I thought now is the time to remind you of what you said to me upon meeting you at New Vrindaban after my fall from Guru and Sannyas. Seeing my condition, and anticipating the ensuing chaos and confusion amongst the new disciples, you said, "This is why I suggested so strongly that ISKCON should adopt the RITTVIK process of initiation for the new Gurus!!" It has been a long time since then, but after all is said and done, I have personally realized the truth of this statement. Rittvik representatives is all that PRABHUPADA ever sanctioned us to be -not ACHARYAS or GURUS.

After years of anguish and confusion over this issue, I have by the mercy of Prabhupada, come to take shelter in his instruction: "Act as Rittvik of the Acharya." I think it is time for me to repay the debt I owe you for giving me shelter when I was so broken and lost in my spiritual life.

Hansadutta dasa —Singapore, 2. October 1993

BH: It was a sad drama with some very sinister actors like Keith Ham and many of the other so called leaders at that time

PP: Gauridasa Pandita, With Kirtananda it was he who Yasodananda Swami and Pradumya and maybe Gurukripa, not sure but they were the three main players of influences trying to divert these men from their folly. Anyway they approached him as being the most favourable out of all 11 and GBCs to try to get them all to stop what they were implementing .thus why maybe he said that to Hamsadutta and the others in the beginning 78. What have people been doing to you? Denying you were at the conversation with Tamal and Prabhupada?

Gauridasa Pandita: Gauridasa Pandita Yes and other things I’d rather not talk about. But if you’re a ritvik advocate you’ll find out what happens and it ain’t pretty.

PP: I believed in ritvik at the beginning as it was the only way I could see for them to move forward. I don't believe in it now as a authorized process, but still believe that those who adopt Prabhupada first and foremost and his original books are in a way better position than those who don't.

PADA: But what is the authorized process then, they cannot say? Worship of the acharya is "not found in shastra," but what is found there?

Jayamadhava Das: PP --Good Points. Srila Prabhupada said his disciples were going to be REGULAR GURU --- Not His Divine Grace. So in 1978 the GBC Blew IT Totally.

PADA: There is no instruction on how someone is not an actual guru but is a regular guru. If Srila Prabhupada was going to make a separate class of gurus called the "regular gurus," and these gurus were going to be voted in, voted out, censured, suspended, excommunicated and in sum -- monitored by the GBC, he would have explained that process in detail.

JR: What are you saying, the gross fall down regular gurus are authorized acharya representatives of Lord Chaitanya? How is that?

Jayamadhava Das: Srila Prabhupada said You become - 'regular guru' Im just repeating exactly what-HDG Srila Prabhupada said, Nothing ELSE......

PADA: You become a guru when he orders, he does not order anyone?

JR: Jayamadhava Das A thing is judged by the result. Your result is a failure.

PP: Jayamadhava Das what do you think he meant? From listening it would seem he said they become regular guru after he leaves.

Swarup Hebel: Gauridasa Pandita Prabhu -- In all due respect, one time you quoted Prabhupada as saying he wanted the ritvik system to continue after he "left the planet." Now I'm hearing that he was heard to say "after my departure." Rather than sort through all of the writing -- most of which I have read before -- could you point out exactly -- exactly -- where he says either "after my departure" or "after I leave the planet?" 

No tapes nor letters ever contained those words that I am aware of. This is a very important point so please indulge my curiosity. If we all had proof positive that's what he said then there never would have been a controversy. It would have been a slam dunk despite the arguments that it was never done in our sampradaya that a guru continued giving diksa after his departure and neither was it the idea Srila Bhaktisiddhanta had. He did not appoint nor select anyone to become next acarya but rather asked his disciples to work cooperatively and who is effulgent would come out from among them. 

Many of the ritvik proponents conclude that if one isn't convinced that it was actually Prabhupada's intention to continue giving diksa (via ritvik representatives) after his departure that means automatically they accepted the zonal acaryas and all that came after. Anyway -- please save me some time and eyesight and highlight where and when those words were spoken directly by His Divine Grace and who was present when they were spoken. Thank you very much.

Gauridasa Pandita: Srila Prabhupada said he would appoint ‘Officiating Acharya’s’ to initiate devotees after his departure on May 28th 1977. I also heard him say he would appoint ritvik representatives to initiate devotees after he left the planet on July 5th 1977. It is also stated in the July 9th 1977 Letter.

This information is in my report. Now after all these decades this video of TKG surfaces confirming what I have been saying I heard, all along. It’s a wonderful day and our movements future is brighter. AGTSP! Btw a ritvik is an honorable position in the Vedic System that Srila Prabhupada so wisely used. Those who want to accept their own disciples should do so in their own temples.

Gauridasa Pandita 'On My Behalf'

http://www.harekrsna.de/reform/e_pr_omb.htm

On My Behalf - Srila Prabhupada's Initiation System for ISKCON

HAREKRSNA.DE

Swarup Hebel: Please spare me the time spent and just highlight the part in the letter where he says "after my departure" and / or "after I leave the planet." PLEASE. You can do that for these tired eyes. Or if he said it on tape --- tell me at what point I can fast forward to so I can hear him speak these words myself.

Purujit Das: What gauridas Gauridasa Pandita Prabhu says in his testimony perfectly matches Srila Prabhupada's statements in his books.

https://www.inbliss.org/home/when-the-successor-is-needed

KD Dasi: Srila Prabhupada replied to Satsvarupa Maharaja's question ... in which he asks ... about Initiations especially after Srila Prabhupada's disappearance .... and he says there will be ritviks.

Purujit Das: Do we need a successor to Prabhupada? No. Enough. Do we need many qualified siksa gurus? Absolutely!

Swarup Hebel: Oy gevalt.

KD Dasi: Satsvarupa: "Then our next question concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you’re no longer with us. We want to know how first and second initiations would be conducted."

Prabhupada: "Yes; I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled up, I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating acharyas."

Tamala Krsna: "Is that called ritvik-acharya?"

Prabhupada: "Ritvik yes."

Satsvarupa: Then what is the relationship of that person who gives the initiation and the…

Prabhupada: He’s guru. He’s guru.

Satsvarupa: But he does it on your behalf.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is formality. Because in my presence one should not become guru, so on my behalf, on my order… Amara ajnaya guru haia. Be actually guru, but by my order.

May 28th 1977 conversation.

Obviously in the Pyramid Confessions that part was omitted because the making of multiple guru systems was the plan!!!!! I also don't understand why Srila Prabhupada's instructions need to be determined by court... If we study everything in perspective it is obvious that Srila Prabhupada instituted the ritvik system....

PP: Gauridasa Pandita, He's simply question the wording "left the planet." - and needs to hear you say it was merely your understanding of what he said. Not anything else, just the wording on that is what I understand gets to him. So clear it up so he can move forward. :)

KD Dasi: Particularly at a time when you are no longer with us - is also debatable as Srila Prabhupada is always with us in vani and in arca vigraha.

Swarup Hebel: Swarup Hebel Just as an aside -- I left ISKCON in 1979 because I saw right off the bat that what was happening was completely ridiculous. I have been an objective observer to all that has unfolded within the institution since that year and in fact, between 1985 and 2002 I was too busy struggling with drug addiction to notice much of anything. 

It wasn't until 2005 that I began using the Internet and learned of what had been going on all those years and I was shocked. Then came facebook and people began telling their stories (many of which were told on my facebook page) and again -- I was so disheartened at what had been going on. I'd love for ISKCON to get back on track so whatever proof positive, slam dunk evidence that can be provided would thrill me to the bone.

Gauridasa Pandita: This clip from TKG is slam dunk. It must be from the Pyramid Confession talks in 1980. Lots of pertinent stuff on that recording!

Swarup Hebel: Well, maybe when you get some time you can send me a private message showing me exactly where on the tape or where in the letter those words appear. In the meantime -- I've got places to go and people to meet (i.e.I'm exhausted and I'm going to sleep).

KD Dasi: Satsvarupa: "Then our next question concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you’re no longer with us. We want to know how first and second initiations would be conducted."

Prabhupada: "Yes; I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled up, I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating acharyas."

Tamala Krsna: "Is that called ritvik-acharya?"

Prabhupada: "Ritvik yes."

Swarup Hebel: Satsvarupa asked a two part question and Prabhupada answered it in two parts. That exchange would not stand up in a court of law as conclusive evidence. Don't shoot the messenger please. I'm just pointing out that it could be interpreted either way and has been by many upstanding individuals, thus the ongoing controversy. I mean somebody has to point these things out and I don't mind the flak which I get whenever I try to see both sides.

KD Dasi: Swarup Hebel I think this video clip mainly proves that Gauridasa Pandita prabhu was eye witness to the conversation that took place and the only remaining witness. This will or will not stand up in court, its not important .... understanding and realising is ...

BS: Swarup Hebel asks the perfect question, and interestingly Gauridasa Pandita can't answer it as nowhere did Srila Prabhupada say that.

BH: Interesting online revelations without a doubt ... common sense even reveals the flaws

Swarup Hebel: I've clashed with Rocana a few times but I do respect his scholarly and mature observations as presented here:

http://www.harekrsna.com/.../writings/church_of_rtvik.htm

PADA: Its amazing to me that anyone needed to see a court approved "legally written order" that they have to promote their guru -- either while he was physically present or not. Yep, suppose everyday Krishna has to write a big legal edict and post it all around town, "All of you Gopis and Gopas have to worship Me, its the legally written law." Why? You mean, if its "not in legal writing" they will stop their worship? No, a person who loves their guru and loves Krishna will serve and promote them without any legally written edict, because they love their guru and Krishna. 

Suppose a wife has to write a legal letter, my dear husband you have to love me, its your legal duty to do so? Well, if the husband needs a legally written document ordering him to love the wife, there was no love there in the first place. 

We do not need a legally written document stating that we have to love anyone, and / or to love or promote our guru. And if we do need a legal court approved document telling us to love someone, or to promote the guru, there is no love there anyway. Love is a spontaneous desire, its not a legal document. Neither the Christians need a legal written document from Jesus, they worship Jesus because he is their guru, they promote him because they love him, no legal document is required. ys pd

Swarup Hebel: I was wondering when you'd show up, Mr. PADA. Here we go --- accusing those who aren't fully convinced that Prabhupada wanted to continue accepting diksa disciples after his departure as not "promoting' their guru. When you walk in the room it's time for logical, rational, mature people to walk out. Now go back to your blog and scream about the heroin addict who hates Prabhupada as you've done before so eloquently.

[PADA: You and Jayatirtha, Jagat Guru swami, Srutasrava dasa, Sudhir Krsna swami, Tripurari swami etc. all ran off to Sridhara Maharaja, founder father of the Gaudiya Matha's bi-sexual / illicit sex acharya's process in 1936. This program has a track record of being a violent goonda's process which banned, beat, sued and assassinated dissenters. And then the Sridhara Maharaja program supported the same deviations all over again, i.e. by his support of the post-1978 GBC's gurus. This was again the same identical program, which also bans, beats, molests, sues and assassinates Vaishnavas. 

And this is what you folks call rational and mature behavior? 

The followers of the post-1936 Sridhara Maharaja endorsed false guru's process were beating people over the head with bricks and cracking their skulls, pushing people's faces into dog stools, and killing them. And that is a "mature and sane" manner of dealing with Vaishnavas?  

Even animals are not indulging in worship of illicit sex with men, women and children as their acharyas, like your Sridhara Maharaja program has been supporting? Sulochana said you folks are not advanced enough to worship a dog, because a dog does not ban, beat, molest, sue and kill Vaishnavas. So first of all, you folks need to start at the beginning, worship a nice dog. 

And then, after you are not supporting violent bogus guru cults that kills the Vaishnavas, we can talk about mature behavior from there. As for taking heroin, ok when the guru leaves his body we have a duty to make sure fools and debauchees are not sitting in our guru's seat, while they orchestrate banning, beating, molesting, suing and killing Vaishnavas. That is our priority number one, and not smoking pot, drinking beer, watching football, and taking heroin etc.] 

PP: PADA screams about everyone in his blog.

PADA: Well yes, for example we said there is a child molesting problem, and people said we are offenders who are screaming etc. And then we had to help hundreds (or was it thousands?) of victims with a $400,000,000 lawsuit. Rather amazing, some of the victims said I was being WAY to lenient and soft. The victims think I was not screaming loud enough. It all depends on whose shoes a person is in, the victims think I was too soft, that is their perspective and I sympathize with the victims. ys pd

JR: Wow, sympathy for the victims, good idea. PADA / Puranjana Dasa is the greatest devotee because he knows and is honest to relate the history. The history is not good. This is also why the ISKCON movement has become discredited, bankrupted and obscure. People are afraid of your creepy cult. If not not really afraid, they disrespect you. Puranjana preaches to you not to the Karmis this is his special chosen work. He tries sincerely. You will never get it.
Too bad.

PADA: As for Swarupa Hebel's legal documents argument, love is not a legal written edict? No one had to show me any legal written document that Srila Prabhupada -- has been the guru; is the guru now; and will be the guru of ISKCON ad infinitum, until and unless Krishna manifests another process. If we need a legal written letter to indicate who to love, who to promote as guru, there was no love there? I believed Srila Prabhupada would be the guru of ISKCON when I first joined, I never needed a "legal written document" at any time to "prove" to me that he would be that person. 

I tell folks Srila Prabhupada will be their guru, I never needed any "legal letter" to tell them that? I gave them Srila Prabhupada as their guru because that is how we love our fellow man, our children etc. and that is how we love Srila Prabhupada. These people never asked me for a "legal written document" to prove that Srila Prabhupada is their guru either, because they love him. If we are not convinced he is the guru, then who is? 

And do we have to tell you about all the problems that our society has had when people were told that Srila Prabhupada is not going to be their guru? And this is also the first argument we had with Jayatirtha, we said the bhogha, the disciples, the money, and everything else, should be offered to Srila Prabhupada, because, he is the guru. 

Jayatirtha said no, that is not the order, I am the guru and they are my disciples, its my money, and it ALL belongs to me. How has that worked out? Love is also not a mature rational thing, its a sentiment of the heart, and we either have it or we don't. 

As for Swarupa's pal Rocana, he was a leader of the 50 man committee in 1986 of "guru reform." Of course, this begs the question, what kind of gurus need to be reformed for deviations? Rocana has never answered that since 1986. Srila Prabhupada says we do not reform the deviating guru, we do not allow people who are deviating to claim to be gurus. There is no such thing as a deviating guru who needs reform, this is an oxymoron. Swarupa Hebel thinks God's successors are deviants who need to be reformed? ys pd

JR: 40 years is a long time. ISKCON is a little bit too late to try and sort out their problem. The Vaisnava Calendar lists almost every ISKCON devotee as Guru. I never heard of most of these people. Tamala Krishna Maharaja was the first ISKCON Guru to get disciplined. Chediraja Prabhu told me in 1979 that Maharaja was deviating proclaiming himself the only Pure Devotee. When Maharaja gave Bhagavatam class he closed the book after the verse translation He skipped Srila Prabhupada purport because he was The Acarya. By 1982 The Movement was disintegrated significantly. Yes the New Guru replacements had a lot of disciples but at New York Rathyatra I noticed that many of The Lords devotees were absent, they did not attend.

I am sure they led significant important lives but the cost to the world is huge because these were the devotees tasked with preaching. A few devotees who I miss are Vipina Purandara Dasa, Sanjaya Dasa, and my Godsisters Gopinatha, Mahabhoga, Mahadhana, Lalita Sakai, and many great Brahmacaris. If you discuss this with ISKCON they tell you yes Ritvic was authorized until the Gurus disappearance. Now they are the living Guru party preaching the gospel of worship me.

Jayamadhava Das: The whole thing is Embarrassing....''No guru reform'' was done .........Look at Iskcon Today its A MESS.

PP: JR thanks for that detail of the straight after effect of Prabhupadas leaving us. I believe this immediate impression and activity indicated the motive and guilt of the ring leaders. To close the Bhagavatam and not read purport indicated TKG distain for his Spiritual Master. Actions speak louder. And ever since then you can see by the actions of the ongoing men gurus this distain they have for Srila Prabhupada by their actions of changing his books.
BB Das: So true, devotees unite!

DAP: Satsvarupa: "Then our next question concerns initiations in the future, PARTICULAR AT THE TIME WHEN YOU ARE NO LONGER WITH US. We want to know how first and second initiations would be conducted."

Prabhupada: "Yes; I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled up, I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating acharyas."

Tamala Krsna: "Is that called ritvik-acharya?"

Satsvarupa: Then what is the relationship of that person who gives the initiation and the…

Prabhupada: He’s guru. He’s guru.

Satsvarupa: But he does it on your behalf.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is formality. Because in my presence one should not become guru, so on my behalf, on my order… Amara ajnaya guru haia. Be actually guru, but by my order.

Prabhupada: "Ritvik yes." [Vrndava, May 28th, 1977]

Source: https://youtu.be/dwPqWRrJvBI

"The Appointment Tape" -- Srila Prabhupada orders ritviks for ISKCON

Torben Nielsen: I follow Srila Prabhupada´s siksa. I am not diksa-initiated. I once was, but I rejected it - publicly.

PADA: Right, Torben wants us to all worship the GBC's gurus, which he himself rejects. We cannot worship Prabhupada, we have to worship someone else, but Torben does not even know who that someone else is? He is a mayavada. 

At least he admits that he cannot worship the GBC's gurus either, so that is a good start. So this is amazing, he wants people to worship nothing and no one as their guru, and offer the bhogha and disciples to the big nothingness in the sky. All glories to -- nobody! Hee hee! Mayavada!  

There are only three types of gurus in ISKCON today: (A) Sexual predators, alcoholics, and debauchees; (B) Those who enabled, empowered, reinstated, covered up for and facilitated the debauchee guru process and; (C) Those voted in by the two above groups. No wonder Torben cannot name his guru! ys pd

Glories of the Yamuna (Video)

PADA Nominates Walmart Lady to Lead ISKCON India

[PADA: The ISKCON preaching in India is "going strong." Why? Because they are teaching people the GBC's apa-siddhanta, i.e. that India's acharyas are often drunkards, drug addicts and debauchees who are maybe "engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children"? And they are burying sexual predators and pornography swamis in samadhis in the dham! In India. And they are making Kirtanananda's glorious henchmen the biggest authority there! In India. Great preaching indeed! 

Sheesh! 

Meanwhile! Any ordinary "mundane woman" walking down the street -- actually anywhere in the USA -- knows that God's successors, gurus and messiahs are not EVER "engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children." Nor can people engaged as such "vote in another wave of messiahs." Yep! Any woman from the USA could defeat the entire GBC board, whether India board or Western board, and even after drinking a six pack of beer! They know better! 

Same basic problem we have with Hanuman Croatia, Bhakti Vikas Swami et al. they think its ok to have their men's program preaching that God's successors are often debauchees but we cannot allow women to do that. Very silly really? What difference does it make "what is the gender" of the people they allow to promote apa-siddhanta?   

Sorry, the GBC needs to find any ordinary woman to be their new leader. Even any Walmart woman clerk, and make her the head of their ISKCON India bureau! She will immediately make a policy, let's get these sexual predators out of these bogus samadhis, and quit telling little children that God's gurus, acharyas, messiahs and successors are often drunkards and debauchees! 

This is amazing, the India board promotes the same bogus apa-siddhanta as the Western board. Who cares "what gender" they make out of the people preaching that deviation, whether male or female? Amazing, we should continue to preach that acharyas are often drunkards, debauchees, and criminals, but we should not have women preaching that? 

A lot of good that does, hah hah! This stuff is getting ritvik-diculous! Yep, only men bodied souls should be preaching that God's gurus / acharyas / successors are often fools, sexual predators, drunks and debauchees, women should not be allowed into our circle to do that. Yep, that will fix things, hah hah hah! ys pd]

Feminist Diksha Gurus are Coming

BY: MOHAN DAS

If you thought that because all was quiet on the Western front in regard to Feminist Female Diksha Gurus and that the issue had died then you were wrong. While ISKCON India was lulled into a false sense of security the opposing party has been furiously but quietly working to have Female Diksha Gurus become a fact in ISKCON by the next AGM in 2019!

The iGBC secretly had discussions about FDG at the mid term meeting in October but there is no mention of them in the publicly available GBC minutes. Why? It appears that the plan is to ambush ISKCON India and suddenly foist it on us so that we (ISKCON India) will have no time to react and it will then be a fait acompli. This has been a successful strategy for the North American controlled iGBC in the past and this is how we ended up with Female GBCs, the Women's Vaisnavi Ministry, women giving class in Mayapura and several other abominations.

The current proposal is that "suitably qualified" senior ladies will be allowed to give first initiation, but not second initiation. This restriction presumably is to mollifying ISKCON India. But it is a crazy idea because who will get first from one guru and second from another? So the next step will be to let women give both since they already give first. Once the nose of the camel is in the tent, the rest of the camel will soon follow.

Once the proposal is rammed down ISKCON India's throat and passed some women have already been selected and will immediately be allowed to initiate. It is reported that Devaki dd has stated that Badrinarayana Swami already nominated her to be a diksha guru at the next AGM.

This is all coming from ISKCON West[1] which is in disarray with very few successful projects. Where you will find more Deities than devotees at mangala arotika. These GBCs think they are the "New East India Company" and can shove their diktat down the throat of ISKCON India. But, it is ISKCON India that is the only successful part of ISKCON. Yet the failed part of ISKCON (ISKCON West) wants to to impose their strategies for "success" on us.

Just to remind you, the iGBC has no legal authority in India. The Bureau is the legal authority for ISKCON India. In the past ISKCON India humbly acquiesced to the iGBC in a spirit of cooperation and allowed them to manage Mayapura and Vrndavan which they turned into feminist enclaves and managerial nightmares in contrast to the rest of India which is reasonably well run and greatly flourishing in every category. It got so bad that the Bureau flexed its muscle and evicted the iGBC from Mayapura. The same needs to be done for Vrndavana, but we digress.

Reverting back to Feminist Diksha Gurus. No one should have any illusion that this is about spiritual qualifications. No. This all stems from feminism which has completely infiltrated ISKCON West and thus the drive for women to take over traditional male roles. The dominant players pushing for FDG are the usual suspects like the Women's Ministry which, as previously reported, is run by a divorce lawyer and a woman who was blooped for 15 years during which time she married a sannyasi, became a Satan worshiper, ran a brothel, and was a drug addict. And their male supporters like Praghosa, Anuttama, and others.

They have the misguided idea that somehow, mystically, if we make women gurus and have female leadership that ISKCON in the West will again be relevant. That ISKCON West was ruined by the men but that women will make it all better again. That "whatever a man can do a woman can do better." And that women are expert at cleaning up after the messes that men make. So what better idea than to let women take over the leadership of ISKCON?

This of course is all feminist mythology. That the world is a mess because of men and that if women were in control we would be in a paradise. Fifty years ago people fell for this rot but now 50 years later we can see what female leadership has given us. The female president of Brazil was impeached and is facing criminal investigation. The female president of S Korea impeached and jailed. Angela Merkel of Germany has single handedly destroyed the EU because of her misguided immigration policies. The female president of Argentina totally corrupt, and destroyed the Argentinian economy. In Bangladesh both opposing sides are led by women, both corrupt. The same happened in Sri Lanka. And of course here in India we had Indira, in the past and now Mamta, Jayalalita (recently died) and Mayawati, all corrupt and somewhat crazy.

As previously reported the National Church of Sweden which at one time had a membership of 95% of the population is now female led for some time and membership has dropped to 60% with further losses of 15% expected in the next few years. The female Bishop of Germany who was leader of the German Lutheran church had to resign her position after she ran a red light while drunk and crashed her car.

Returning again to FDG we should not expect help from the so-called conservative GBCs because they have now compromised and are supporting this proposal. These are the same people who were formerly staunch opponents of the Indophobic leader of Krsna West, Hrdayananda dasa Goswami, but who then voted unanimously to put him back on the GBC.[2] What kind of people do these things?

In previous news items we reported that the new generation in both India and the West is projected to be the most conservative and traditional since WW2. And also that in India there is a huge surge in recruits to the RSS with the reported reason that people want to get back to their roots. Why do I point this out? Because our customers, the public, are as a demographic going to be much more attracted to conservative and traditional values than left wing feminism. So going the feminist route of Feminist Diksha Gurus is not going to help us, just the opposite.

ISKCON would already have FDGs because the first one was nominated in 2003. Then the GBC made official proposals in 2005 and several others over the years. Why do we still not have Female Diksha Gurus in ISKCON? Because ISKCON India has protested that this is against Krsna's Vedic culture. That Srila Prabhupada wanted ISKCON to re-establish Vedic culture (bhārati samskriti) in India and the world. And it is because of the strong stance of ISKCON India that the iGBC is using sneaky tactics to get over and around our protests and force this on us. So it is up to the leaders of ISKCON India to resist this and kick it out completely. That the GBC must stop and desist and repeal any proposals for implementing FDGs and instead pass laws prohibiting FDGs.

To put it simply if ISKCON India does not act strongly now there will be Feminist Diksha Gurus in ISKCON for Gaupurnima 2019. It is now up to you.

ISKCON Preaching Site's Failing Finances

[PADA: Apparently, ISKCON is not funding what is advertised as one of their main preaching Web Sites. Meanwhile, at least apparently, there is always a spare $100,000,000 on hand for lawsuits. In fact one follower of Jayapataka told PADA that they would not hesitate to spend "$100,000,000 over the next 100 years suing the ritviks," if need be. Yep, plenty of money on hand to STOP the preaching, yet not so much on hand to maintain, and CREATE or HELP the preaching.

This web site was being questioned about a year ago when one of the speakers was saying gurus can fall into illusion. And thus some people thought they were linking gurus and acharyas like Srila Prabhupada to being prone to fall down and illusion. 

Well yep. The speaker was from the Jayapataka Bangalore program, so of course they are preaching that acharyas are often fallen debauchees and deviants. Anyway, its self evident that even what they call their "big preaching" is not supported very much. ys pd] 

=======================

Dear Devotees,

Greetings from ISKCON Desire Tree.

One of our widely visited website www.srimadbhagavatamclass.com which contains unique collection 30,000 + audio lectures for slokas of Srimad-Bhagavatam given by senior ISKCON leaders was taken down recently.

The reason being large storage size of audio lectures and Server company wanted us to upgrade Hosting plan to Dedicated server which would cost us additional expense of 15,000/- rs per month, we couldn't afford.

Thousands of devotees get their daily spiritual nourishment through this website.

We request you to kindly donate generously so that we can upgrade server and make this site available again.

Your valued donations will not only benefit Website, but will also earn unlimited mercy of Vaishnava's who take shelter in this vast online audio library.

Any amount of monetary donations is welcome and we will be highly honored and obliged for the support.

Thanking you for your generous consideration.

Our mailing address is:
E-mail : vaishnavasevadasa@gmail.com
Phone: +91 9321 164 690
Phone: +91 8767 845 845

Book Changes (Garuda Video)

PADA: Unfortunately, Narasimgha swami supports the Sridhara Maharaja view that conditioned souls can be worshiped as acharyas.

Change Meister in Charge

Also says his GBC guru parampara contains: 

Illicit sex with men, women and children (and maybe goats?). 

The "Nicer Path to Bhakti"? (Q: From Former Soviet State)

https://www.bhaktimarga.org/bhakti-marga/swamis-and-swaminis/swamini-vishwanimesika-ma

PADA: Thanks for your question prabhu, what should you do when some of your "old friends" are leaving from ISKCON are going off to follow this program above, and they are not attending ISKCON anymore. They say this is a "nicer path to bhakti." Should you join them or not? 

For starters, one reason people are leaving ISKCON is because the GBC actually encourages that process all along. For example, the GBC sent thousands and thousands of people off to BR Sridhara Maharaja; Then they sent thousands and thousands of more people packing off to BV Narayana Maharaja; And then they shipped many others off to BV and BP Puri maharajas, various Babajis, Fakir Mohan and who knows what else. So the GBC is itself one of the biggest promoters of sending people away from ISKCON to all sorts of "off shoot branches." And if people are not leaving quickly enough, they will find someone else to ship people off to, and out of ISKCON. 

In sum, the ISKCON GBC are the main party spawning competition for ISKCON quite purposefully, and they have done so all along. The reason they do that? It is self evident, once they empty out and de-populate the temples, then they can start their real program, i.e. making a showing the deity business using the nearly empty ISKCON properties to extract funds from the Hindus. 

As soon as we find their ISKCON temple buildings are emptying out, most of them are happy as a clam and they think things are going great. As Bhavananda once said to Tamal, "Let them all go." So after awhile, most of the citizens are gone, but that was their overall self-evident plan all along.

And lets not forget that many devotees are simply turned off by their roughness, mean attitude, and / or crook and thug type behavior -- found in various GBC and / or their followers. And that program empties out the temples in itself. And then lets not forget -- the GBC's program also found out that their preaching that God's "gurus and successors" are often illicit sex debauchees is such an odious preaching policy, that this process alone also empties out buildings in an accelerated manner. So they have doubled down on that process as well. 

They are now boldly declaring that God's guru successors are often fallen debauchees, and this has emptied out the buildings nicely for them. Thus -- its a sort of open secret GBC policy to have ISKCON become empty buildings, so they can then create Hindu-ized money grabbing programs, and convert the temples into de facto Hindu cultural centers, and they are using every tool in their tool kit to make that happen. And now we have an official ISKCON Hindu preacher on the West Coast who advertises Rama Krishna mission. He even advertises other Hindu speakers and programs on the ISKCON temple site that he manages. So they do not want regular followers of Srila Prabhupada who are not attracted to these things. 

And none of this policy is likely to change anytime soon, because they are simply making too much money from this scheme. Thus, its a fair question, now what? What happens if we are a devotee in a city somewhere, where the ISKCON temple is not a friendly or favorable place, and these bhakti yoga folks have a center? Well its a sort of rock between a hard place question. These bhakti yoga people are apparently nice folks, but it seems to me that they do not have a solid grasp of the technical siddhanta of Krishna, although they do have some general notion of the facts. 

And that is why many people told me both inside and outside ISKCON, Srila Prabhupada's Krishna consciousness process has the best philosophy, but has the worst people possible supposedly representing it. So these other bhakti yoga people are seemingly nice, friendly, and mature in their personal dealings. And that has certainly been lacking in the GBC's ISKCON. Of course, they too will have some sorts of problems, because every institution will, but at least they try to keep their public profile problems to a minimum. 

As we posted here a few times, Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura says that its better to associate with regular mundane people than pseudo devotees. So it would seem that associating with some "better behaved Vaishnavas" might be the best of a bad bargain. Its too bad that many of the people rejecting the GBC do not seem to produce much actually functioning alternate programs. I am also appreciating that your wife wants some form of sangha and association and all that, its important for women and families to have some like minded association, I understand. 

Anyway, its really hard for me to advise going to another group, but I do understand how hard it is for devotees who cannot take shelter of ISKCON. In fact I know a few people who committed suicide because they felt they had no shelter in their own religion. Its a sad reality. Anyway, maybe the best thing to do is to take part in their sangha and see how it works out, at the same time keep reading Srila Prabhupada's books to keep getting a clearer idea of the actual siddhanta. 

There is a lot of sentiment for having some sangha, and some of the devotees who went to Narayan Maharaja told me the same thing, they really know NM has some different siddhanta, but they wanted to give themselves some sort of association. And you are also correct, its not likely the GBC will change anytime soon, so we are sort of stuck at present. So I am sorry not to be able to make a clear position on this, but I know how difficult it can be. 

Even Lord Siva's wife went to the Daksha ceremony apparently because women desire some sort of social sangha program, so if it has been difficult for her, what to speak of us peanut sized devotees. Of course this story is meant to illustrate this fact, it does not mean Lord Siva's family members have material attachments. Its meant to show us that women as a class desire a sangha and its hard to change their nature and get them to renounce all that -- all of a sudden.   

Anyway prabhu, do the best you can with the situation you have. We all need to take shelter of Krishna in the best mode we can arrange. I see this as being a very different thing for different individual people, and we might have to adjust whatever works for our own particular situation. I know some devotees who got fried with ISKCON and they began reading and advertising karmi books, so that is also not a good alternate either. Of course we also have the Illuminati and Hitler-anugas who read and advertise all sorts of trash materials. 

Good luck with your endeavors and keep in touch and let me know how things progress there. And yes, I have listened to a few of the bhakti yoga folks kirtans and have been impressed with their singing. The swami's lectures, not so much. And the orange dressed female swamini / sannyasini program also does not look like any of the standard Vaishnava sampradaya practices. At least they have some attraction for Krishna, that is something in their favor. ys pd 
  

What? Please send the explanation to: angel108b@yahoo.com

Vintage ISKCON Film Dubbed in Hindi (Video)

ISKCON Moscow Deities Rented for Parties?

[PADA: Not exactly sure what all is going on here. All I know is, this looks like a bad idea. We have heard about various odd ball things going on in Russia zone, and this could be a sign of further deterioration. The only good news is, at least a few people know something is amiss. ys pd]

==================================

The deities of the Moscow temple of  Krishna Sri Sri Doyal Nitai Sacisuta go to Nilachala Candra devi dasi for a birthday -

https://www.instagram.com/nilachala_chandra/ 

"Even the day after tomorrow, we will celebrate our birthdays with Janardana Prabhu. Both of us are 30 years old, I was already the birthday before yesterday, and him birthday will be this Sunday. We rented a large hall and called our friends and also viewers and readers from my social networks. 

We are preparing an interesting program: Janardana Prabhu will be a DJ, he will play modern club music from mantras. There will be kirtan and Prasad as well. And Sri Madana Mohini invited Sri Sri Nitai Sacisuta to us on this holiday and They agreed to come!" 

Since when did the Moscow deities of Sri Sri Doyal Nitai Sacisuta go to holidays and birthday parties in rented rooms or halls? But what about daily worship, does it stop? How are deities transported? What does it mean "They agreed to come!"? Nilachala talked with deities? She is alright? Is she crazy? 

Where is the temple president's overseeing, or pujari, or yatra council, or GBC? How much does it cost to order for self for the birthday of the Deities from the temple now? Ah, Vishnu-rata Prabhu - 

https://www.facebook.com/vishnuratadas.manakhov ? 

Announce the price tag. What should be done? What a shame! Just a shame. The most absurdity of the situation is that she writes about this to her guru, Hakimov, Caitanya Candra Caran, a member of the GBC in the Ural.

A Mixture of Conjugal and Parental Love (NOD)

"One resident of Mathurā requested her father to bolt the doors and then go with her to the school of Sāndīpani Muni to find Kṛṣṇa. She complained that Kṛṣṇa had completely stolen her mind. In this incident there is a mixture of conjugal love and parental love, but there is no incompatibility." 

Srila Prabhupada nod / 50

Cardinal George Pell / Vatican Official / Sex Crimes Trial

https://www.thedailybeast.com/vatican-no-3-cardinal-george-pell-on-trial-for-historical-child-sex-charges?

Hare Krishna (by Manas Kumar) Video

Krishna Balaram Swami "All ISKCON Gurus are Fake"

Recently Krishna Balarama swami said that all of the ISKCON leaders and gurus know they are fake. 

https://www.facebook.com/saravanan.my/videos/10156972281741514/

He says, despite they know they are bogus and fake -- they cannot help themselves. Yes, my friend told me a GBC guru said to him, "hey what are we going to do now, drive a taxi cab? We have to stick with this guru thing because we have no social security or anything to support us, this is our career."

Yes, at the same time we were invited to a "Radhanath group" for some odd reason. And as soon as we asked, "why are Radhanath and his GBC pals burying a known sexual predator (Kirtanananda swami) in a samadhi in Vrndavana," they banned me from further comment. 

Basically, they cannot explain their position, and never could. 

This is very good news for us, it means we did the right thing in: Exposing these people in the public media; Consulting with the Federal Marshals / FBI folks to raid them; Helping them get sued for $400M -- and so on, because that is the only way we can make progress in countering their process. Its also interesting that Krishna Balarama swami says these ISKCON people will act real humble, but as soon as they speak, the poison comes out. And you can see it! Yep, really!

Haribol, I am so humble -- but don't forget to help us promote our sexual predator's samadhi process. Yep its poison. And KB swami says, they all know it, but they are stuck with the status quo, probably for economic reasons. And did we forget to mention Radhanath is well known to have been implicated in other dubious enterprises:

Anyway, this is all good news, it means more and more people are waking up to their bogus GBC guru program and they are speaking out more solidly nowadays. As for banning us, fine really, but its too little too late? 

We had the same problem with the Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad / Dayalu Nitai's HKC Jaipur folks. Lets attack PADA! And get people to listen to our shiksha guru hero, Radhanath lover's club leader Bhakta Dasa! OK great, and how is that working out for these folks? Sorry its not going anywhere, its "too little to late" to shut this GBC opposition process down.  

Meanwhile our friends in New York complained to us that Ramabhadra has contested his removal in court again, so ISKCON still must pay $600 per hour for lawyers, and its all of us congregation who have to pay for all this nonsense. I said yes, and at the same time many ex-kulis are suffering from lack of facility, and others like us original devotees are old, sick and dying etc. but we are never given 600 cents of help. 

So its all coming out very clear. And despite some disagreement we have with Krishna Balaram swami, on this issue he is right. They will act all humble, but as soon as they speak, the poison comes out. And you can see it, and so can most of the rest of the world. And certainly their poison speaking is known and seen by Krishna and His agents. ys pd 

KB Swami should not take the post of guru himself:

http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2015/02/krishna-balaram-swami-is-compromiser.html

Of course we do not need another Founder Acharya either.