Hanuman das: With a devotee from India about rtviks philosophy and the future of ISKCON.
Question
Dear Hanuman Prabhu
Dandavat Pranam
All Glories To Śrīla Prabhupāda
First of all, I wish to introduce myself. My name is X, I am 18 years old and I live in Bangalore, India. This email is sent by me to seek Your association and understand a few things, which I have mentioned in this mail.
As You can see from my name, I am, so far, not an initiated devotee within any of the ISKCONs, either the one run by “Gestapo” GBC or the ṛtviks (MPD). But I have been visiting the ṛtvik temple (mainly because it’s the more well-known ISKCON in Bangalore) for the past 8 months, and that’s where I first got the chance to know about Prabhupāda and His Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement (all because of Prabhupāda’s causeless mercy). Since then, Prabhupāda certainly has helped me to understand the purpose of life and the original teachings of the great Ācāryas of the Gauḍīya Vaisnava paramparā.
You may be surprised that how is it that just within 8 months of me associating with Prabhupāda and His movement I could actually differentiate between the two “movements”, let alone calling the “bonafide” ISKCON “Gestapo”. The main reason is Your website (lastingimpression.info). I was shocked to know how much deviation has been going on from Prabhupāda’s original teachings.
=============================
I am very skeptical regarding the rtvik interpretation of 9th July directive. My reasoning is very simple. Srila Prabhupada was not some mystic who preached cryptic, hard-to-understand philosophy. On the contrary, Srila Prabhupada was very straightforward, very down to earth preacher. His instructions were always very simple, very clearly explained and very easy to understand. His teachings are also very logical because he explained the Krishna consciousness perfectly. Srila Prabhupada very rarely changed anything in the practices of Vaisnava traditions. But, when he did change something, he always explained the reasoning behind it.
[PADA: If everything is so simple, why is Hanuman telling people to worship Bhakta das as their diksha guru and offer their bhogha to a guy who was busted for selling designer drugs, and was then arrested for some sort of sex crime charge in Puri India? And worse, Bhakta das promotes Gaudiya Matha folks like BV Puri Maharaja, who also said Radhanath is a saint.]
Similarly, if Srila Prabhupada wanted to change the initiation system, he would surely give an extensive explanation of such a big change. But, he didn’t. Srila Prabhupada wrote extensively in his books about the diksa initiation system, and how parampara works. And he never explained the idea that he will remain diksa guru. If he really wanted to change the sampradaya in such a significant way, he would surely dedicate at least a few paragraphs in his letters, lectures or books to explain the reasoning behind this change.
So, rtviks are simply cheaters with hippy-new age-Christian bija who imagine themselves to be the only ones who “deeply understand” Prabhupada. But there is no need to “deeply understand” Prabhupada because Prabhupada very nicely explained all the changes he made in his movement when he introduced it in the west. And rtvik-change is unfortunately not one of these changes because it is not explained anywhere.
Therefore, rtviks are forced to convert Srila Prabhupada into a mystical saint who spoke cryptically to sound spiritual. And now we need somebody to “decipher” Srila Prabhupada’s teachings. But there is nothing to decipher, Srila Prabhupada’s instructions are very clear. Similarly. criminals from the Gestapo GBC mafia syndicate don’t have any arguments for their gag-order puppy licensed guru system.
Once you go above and beyond Gestapo licensed guru system and above the rtvik New age Christianity nonsense, you will find out that real Krishna consciousness is very natural and very beautiful.
[PADA: OK but Hanuman now has no diksha guru to promote, except maybe Bhakta das or Kailash Chandra? Worship of the GBC gurus is bogus, worship of Srila Prabhupada is bogus ritviks, so he worships these conditioned soul guys as his diksha guru. Naturally, almost cent percent of people already know that Bhakta das and Kailash are not qualified to be offered bhogha and to accept sins like Jesus, so there is no program to have their "eternal guru pooja" being established.
Where is Hanuman's beautiful program? There is none. The guru is shaksat hari -- in quality the same as God, and that includes designer drugs salesmen who think Radhanath is a saint?]
Whoever dedicated his life in preaching Srila Prabhupada’s message is naturally qualified to initiate disciples. And he doesn’t need “approval” from corporate jet-flying sannyasis with girlfriends and luxury apartments. And in case Srila Prabhupada disciple deviates from the pure Krishna consciousness, his peers, his Godbrothers will start writing articles and giving lectures to protest against this deviation.
[PADA: There are not many "Prabhupada disciples" remaining who follow strictly, many don't even follow somewhat, and on top of that, many of them died already. More die every day. Worse, Hanuman expects them to be deviants who have to be corrected. We should accept persons who are prone to deviations as our gurus? And what happens when all the original Srila Prabhupada disciples are no longer here?]
Kailash Chandra is our diksha guru?
http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2018/04/kailash-chandra-das-flaws-in-ritvik.html
This is a very simple system that worked fine for hundreds of years.
[PADA: Who is the actual diksha guru?]
This beautiful and natural Krishna consciousness waits to be re-established and this task will fall on the next generation of Srila Prabhupada followers.
Current ISKCON gurus will hopefully leave the stage soon and take their Gestapo legacy with them. But people leading the revolution need to read Srila Prabhupada’s books, they need to be sincerely dedicated to his mission and then, Srila Prabhupada and Krishna will no doubt empower them to re-establish Krishna consciousness. Whoever remains an ISKCON member will surely not be empowered to instigate the change.
Because by becoming ISKCON member you are actually certifying your stupidity. There, the revolution will most probably come from independently thoughtful people who chewed by and kicked out by ISKCON. And they will need to start initiating. I don’t see any other way. And ISKCON will either disintegrate or remain a powerless sahajiya organization like Christianity.
ys Hanuman das
[PADA: OK worship of people who will have to be corrected for deviations means, Hanuman Croatia admits he is promoting conditioned souls, or worse persons prone to be deviants, as acharyas. If correcting bogus acharyas is so easy, why hasn't Hanuman and his pals been doing that already since 1978? And where is shastra does it say acharyas are prone to deviations?
And if we assume Hanuman makes a devotee, there is no devotee community for them to integrate into? And once all of the original Prabhupada devotees are gone, then who will take the post of diksha guru, when even now their people are already not signing up to be gurus, seeing the karma that afflicts these conditioned gurus. ys pd]
Question
Dear Hanuman Prabhu
Dandavat Pranam
All Glories To Śrīla Prabhupāda
First of all, I wish to introduce myself. My name is X, I am 18 years old and I live in Bangalore, India. This email is sent by me to seek Your association and understand a few things, which I have mentioned in this mail.
As You can see from my name, I am, so far, not an initiated devotee within any of the ISKCONs, either the one run by “Gestapo” GBC or the ṛtviks (MPD). But I have been visiting the ṛtvik temple (mainly because it’s the more well-known ISKCON in Bangalore) for the past 8 months, and that’s where I first got the chance to know about Prabhupāda and His Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement (all because of Prabhupāda’s causeless mercy). Since then, Prabhupāda certainly has helped me to understand the purpose of life and the original teachings of the great Ācāryas of the Gauḍīya Vaisnava paramparā.
You may be surprised that how is it that just within 8 months of me associating with Prabhupāda and His movement I could actually differentiate between the two “movements”, let alone calling the “bonafide” ISKCON “Gestapo”. The main reason is Your website (lastingimpression.info). I was shocked to know how much deviation has been going on from Prabhupāda’s original teachings.
How would Prabhupāda feel after seeing all this nonsense going on in the pristine movement which, once upon a time was led by prominent and great devotees such as the Śaḍ gosvāmīs, Narottama Dāsa Ṭhākura, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja and many great Vaiṣṇavas? The way things are turning out certainly turn the idea of Kṛṣṇa consciousness upside down. Certainly Prabhupāda would have expected His disciples to act in a mature manner, adhering to the injunctions of the Śāstras and living a very Kṛṣṇa conscious life, other than doing all unwanted, nonsense things which are against the scriptural injunctions (as is happening now).
Prabhu, now that I have been visiting the ṛtvik temple, there is a very important question that I have. I’ve been told in the temple about the 9th July directive of Śrīla Prabhupāda regarding initiation (letter on behalf of Śrīla Prabhupāda to all temple presidents dated 9th July 1977) and they say that it is the reason they split up from the actual ISKCON. I wish to know Your stance regarding this Prabhu.
Prabhu, please note that I know and understand that You are also very much against the ṛtviks, for they too seem to deviate (maybe not to that extent as that of the actual ISKCON, but nevertheless, still) from Prabhupāda’s original teachings. I don’t want to be fanatic in this regard and I would like to look at this situation from a neutral point of view and hence practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness without deviating from the original teachings of the Ācāryas.
Kindly help me with this Prabhu so that I may actually understand and practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness in its right spirit. I ask of this now because even though I’m in contact with Prabhupāda’s movement only for 8 months (that too only because of His mercy on me), I wish to be engaged in service to Prabhupāda in the right spirit, and I somehow feel You would help me in this regard.
I sincerely look forward to have Your association.
Thanking You
Your servant
Prabhu, now that I have been visiting the ṛtvik temple, there is a very important question that I have. I’ve been told in the temple about the 9th July directive of Śrīla Prabhupāda regarding initiation (letter on behalf of Śrīla Prabhupāda to all temple presidents dated 9th July 1977) and they say that it is the reason they split up from the actual ISKCON. I wish to know Your stance regarding this Prabhu.
Prabhu, please note that I know and understand that You are also very much against the ṛtviks, for they too seem to deviate (maybe not to that extent as that of the actual ISKCON, but nevertheless, still) from Prabhupāda’s original teachings. I don’t want to be fanatic in this regard and I would like to look at this situation from a neutral point of view and hence practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness without deviating from the original teachings of the Ācāryas.
Kindly help me with this Prabhu so that I may actually understand and practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness in its right spirit. I ask of this now because even though I’m in contact with Prabhupāda’s movement only for 8 months (that too only because of His mercy on me), I wish to be engaged in service to Prabhupāda in the right spirit, and I somehow feel You would help me in this regard.
I sincerely look forward to have Your association.
Thanking You
Your servant
=============================
My response
Hare Krishna prabhu,
please accept my humble obeisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
9th July 1977 is directive is the letter where Srila Prabhupada authorizes 11 of his senior disciples to help him with initiations. Srila Prabhupada was seriously ill, and this letter was supposed to eliminate the big queue of initiation candidates.
Both Gestapo ISKCON and rtviks misused this letter to push their own agenda.
ISKCON leaders used this letter to enthrone 11 fake acharyas to be worshipped on the same level as Srila Prabhupada. Krishna dismantled them after some time. The purest of the pure blooped pretty quickly and one of them even got decapitated. After that, they established licensed puppy Gestapo gurus who must sign a gag-order before they can initiate.
Hare Krishna prabhu,
please accept my humble obeisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
9th July 1977 is directive is the letter where Srila Prabhupada authorizes 11 of his senior disciples to help him with initiations. Srila Prabhupada was seriously ill, and this letter was supposed to eliminate the big queue of initiation candidates.
Both Gestapo ISKCON and rtviks misused this letter to push their own agenda.
ISKCON leaders used this letter to enthrone 11 fake acharyas to be worshipped on the same level as Srila Prabhupada. Krishna dismantled them after some time. The purest of the pure blooped pretty quickly and one of them even got decapitated. After that, they established licensed puppy Gestapo gurus who must sign a gag-order before they can initiate.
And if they ever dare to say the truth, their puppy guru license will be revoked. And they are living a comfortable life provided that they constantly preach that we should not criticize devotees. And “devotees” in this context are the GBC members and puppy gurus themselves. This cheating goes to this very day. We don’t find anywhere in the scriptures that guru has to be “approved” by the corrupt administrative Body. Srila Prabhupada also never presented such a concept. The same goes for signing the gag-order. Anybody who signs a document that prevents him to speak openly is not a real guru.
Rtviks evolved as a reaction to all atrocities performed ISKCON Acarya wannabes.
Rtviks evolved as a reaction to all atrocities performed ISKCON Acarya wannabes.
[PADA: False. We started out saying that Srila Prabhupada should still be the acharya -- and that the bhogha and disciples need to be offered to him -- because only a pure devotee can accept such offerings. This idea did not "evolve later on," this was the entire system established by the acharya the whole time.
How can we say "worship of the pure devotee" is something "no one knew about" through the whole 1970s, and it only "evolved later on" -- when this was the whole idea the entire time? Recently Hanuman said we can accept someone like Kailash Chandra or Bhakta das as our diksha guru, and offer our bhogha to them and have them acting as another Jesus accepting the sins of other people.
OK, but Bhakta das says Radhanath is a saint. How is he authorized? Of course even our friends like HKC Jaipur and their spokesman Prahlad have accepted Bhakta das as their shiksha guru, because like a lot of people, they cannot stop kissing the jack boots of the molester messiah's program advocates. We keep hearing "the idea of worship of pure devotees is a recent concoction," ummm nope, that is the teachings of Krishna for the past 50 trillion years already.]
Those are devotees who saw something terribly wrong in the GBC Gestapo charade. And they were mostly right in recognizing that ISKCON is a crazy censorship organization full of brainless, blind followers who have nothing to do with Srila Prabhupada’s vision of Krishna conscious society. Although rtviks correctly recognized the problem, their mitigation strategy was wrong, bringing another deviation.
I am very skeptical regarding the rtvik interpretation of 9th July directive. My reasoning is very simple. Srila Prabhupada was not some mystic who preached cryptic, hard-to-understand philosophy. On the contrary, Srila Prabhupada was very straightforward, very down to earth preacher. His instructions were always very simple, very clearly explained and very easy to understand. His teachings are also very logical because he explained the Krishna consciousness perfectly. Srila Prabhupada very rarely changed anything in the practices of Vaisnava traditions. But, when he did change something, he always explained the reasoning behind it.
[PADA: If everything is so simple, why is Hanuman telling people to worship Bhakta das as their diksha guru and offer their bhogha to a guy who was busted for selling designer drugs, and was then arrested for some sort of sex crime charge in Puri India? And worse, Bhakta das promotes Gaudiya Matha folks like BV Puri Maharaja, who also said Radhanath is a saint.]
Similarly, if Srila Prabhupada wanted to change the initiation system, he would surely give an extensive explanation of such a big change. But, he didn’t. Srila Prabhupada wrote extensively in his books about the diksa initiation system, and how parampara works. And he never explained the idea that he will remain diksa guru. If he really wanted to change the sampradaya in such a significant way, he would surely dedicate at least a few paragraphs in his letters, lectures or books to explain the reasoning behind this change.
So, rtviks are simply cheaters with hippy-new age-Christian bija who imagine themselves to be the only ones who “deeply understand” Prabhupada. But there is no need to “deeply understand” Prabhupada because Prabhupada very nicely explained all the changes he made in his movement when he introduced it in the west. And rtvik-change is unfortunately not one of these changes because it is not explained anywhere.
Therefore, rtviks are forced to convert Srila Prabhupada into a mystical saint who spoke cryptically to sound spiritual. And now we need somebody to “decipher” Srila Prabhupada’s teachings. But there is nothing to decipher, Srila Prabhupada’s instructions are very clear. Similarly. criminals from the Gestapo GBC mafia syndicate don’t have any arguments for their gag-order puppy licensed guru system.
Once you go above and beyond Gestapo licensed guru system and above the rtvik New age Christianity nonsense, you will find out that real Krishna consciousness is very natural and very beautiful.
[PADA: OK but Hanuman now has no diksha guru to promote, except maybe Bhakta das or Kailash Chandra? Worship of the GBC gurus is bogus, worship of Srila Prabhupada is bogus ritviks, so he worships these conditioned soul guys as his diksha guru. Naturally, almost cent percent of people already know that Bhakta das and Kailash are not qualified to be offered bhogha and to accept sins like Jesus, so there is no program to have their "eternal guru pooja" being established.
Where is Hanuman's beautiful program? There is none. The guru is shaksat hari -- in quality the same as God, and that includes designer drugs salesmen who think Radhanath is a saint?]
Whoever dedicated his life in preaching Srila Prabhupada’s message is naturally qualified to initiate disciples. And he doesn’t need “approval” from corporate jet-flying sannyasis with girlfriends and luxury apartments. And in case Srila Prabhupada disciple deviates from the pure Krishna consciousness, his peers, his Godbrothers will start writing articles and giving lectures to protest against this deviation.
[PADA: There are not many "Prabhupada disciples" remaining who follow strictly, many don't even follow somewhat, and on top of that, many of them died already. More die every day. Worse, Hanuman expects them to be deviants who have to be corrected. We should accept persons who are prone to deviations as our gurus? And what happens when all the original Srila Prabhupada disciples are no longer here?]
Kailash Chandra is our diksha guru?
http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2018/04/kailash-chandra-das-flaws-in-ritvik.html
This is a very simple system that worked fine for hundreds of years.
[PADA: Who is the actual diksha guru?]
This beautiful and natural Krishna consciousness waits to be re-established and this task will fall on the next generation of Srila Prabhupada followers.
Current ISKCON gurus will hopefully leave the stage soon and take their Gestapo legacy with them. But people leading the revolution need to read Srila Prabhupada’s books, they need to be sincerely dedicated to his mission and then, Srila Prabhupada and Krishna will no doubt empower them to re-establish Krishna consciousness. Whoever remains an ISKCON member will surely not be empowered to instigate the change.
Because by becoming ISKCON member you are actually certifying your stupidity. There, the revolution will most probably come from independently thoughtful people who chewed by and kicked out by ISKCON. And they will need to start initiating. I don’t see any other way. And ISKCON will either disintegrate or remain a powerless sahajiya organization like Christianity.
ys Hanuman das
[PADA: OK worship of people who will have to be corrected for deviations means, Hanuman Croatia admits he is promoting conditioned souls, or worse persons prone to be deviants, as acharyas. If correcting bogus acharyas is so easy, why hasn't Hanuman and his pals been doing that already since 1978? And where is shastra does it say acharyas are prone to deviations?
And if we assume Hanuman makes a devotee, there is no devotee community for them to integrate into? And once all of the original Prabhupada devotees are gone, then who will take the post of diksha guru, when even now their people are already not signing up to be gurus, seeing the karma that afflicts these conditioned gurus. ys pd]
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