Wednesday, June 28, 2017

Yadubara's "Hare Krishna" Film / Gurukulis / Govinda Dasi / Jayadvata swami / Sanaka Rsi etc.

What did they do to Prabhupada's Mission?

Some people have asked me to comment on Yadubara's and Vishaka's "Hare Krishna" and Srila Prabhupada film, and one question they wanted me to address is -- how can we counteract negative comments being posted on the reviews of this movie? First of all, this movie is largely ISKCON nostalgia from the 1970s "lets get back to Srila Prabhupada" which is nice on one level because it shows Srila Prabhupada, but it does not address the current reality of the Krishna society, where Srila Prabhupada and his teachings are being lost, changed and systematically back-pedaled. 

Worse, the more or less official position of the current managers of ISKCON is -- that the "living guru successors" to Krishna and Srila Prabhupada are often degraded sexual predators and debauchees, which is like a walking bad advert for God and His gurus in itself. How can anyone expect good publicity from a society that basically insults God and their mission's founder every day by saying their guru successors are often deviants of the worst order?  

Many critics are fairly aware of the crimes and scandals of the post 1977 society, all being done in the name of so-called "appointed gurus," which means right out of the gate the leaders are insulting Srila Prabhupada and Krishna by saying they wanted or "appointed" fools and deviants as their successors, and thus the critics see right away when these issues are not being addressed and its a simply a retread of the past era. Hence the main criticism is that this movie is like a propaganda presentation, its not balanced and so on. 

How did Srila Prabhupada become removed from the picture is our first and real concern. Yadubara of course interviews some of the corporate hacks like Mukunda Goswami, another head honcho of the illicit sex "appointed acharya's" program, but not any of us? Critics are going to spot that problem right away. Yadubara apparently hand selects mainly those people who are promoting his debauchee messiah's project as fit to be included in his film, or people who do not know any better on these issues. People who think God's successors, gurus and acharyas are often engaged in illicit sex, crimes, drinking Vodka and so forth can be interviewed, but not us? All because we do not think God and / or His successors are debauchees? Critics will see that defect immediately.

Many God brothers of ours are thus similarly stuck in the nostalgia era of the 1970s. When they meet with me, or they are interviewed nowadays, they often reflect on "the good old days" when there were big programs, big temples, and many people involved in large public kirtana and so on. However, they seem to be unable to contemplate the post 1977 era of ISKCON? The first question viewers of the film will ask after seeing the movie is -- what happened to all the FORMER and PAST Krishna people that were making the big crowds previously? 

Where did they all go to? The movie does not address this really, hence the critics will pounce on the lack of recent and current history, where for example the GBC folks recently buried a pedophile in the holy dham as one of their "samadhi" messiahs. And Yadubara likes to hang out in Los Angeles where Radhanath recently initiated people there, because the leaders there also support the Radhanath pedophile's samadhi project and it main leaders. 

So it appears the ignorant and / or those who think sexual predators of students, assorted deviants, criminals, murder orchestrating envious people, pedophiles etc. are in "samadhi" are allowed to be part of their process, and we who think that Srila Prabhupada is correct, that Krishna's successors are pure, we are cut out of their process. Certainly a lot of critics know this by now?   

Thus! As for the negative comments on the film, well there are a lot of people who simply do not like current ISKCON for all kinds of reasons and they'd like it shut down. That includes even some former gurukuli students who told me they'd like the entire program shut down since its not being fixed. Yadubara's program has been busy making millions of enemies of the movement for decades, by preaching that Srila Prabhupada's and God's successors are often perverts, deviants, criminals, molesters and etc. and he is going to fix that by waving his hand in the air and getting everyone to all of a sudden embrace the movement, without removing the deviants?

Sulochana called this "bait and switch," they'll present Krishna and Srila Prabhupada in the front, but as soon as you get inside you'll have to worship their illicit sex with men, women and children debauchees process as your messiahs. And you'll be expected to support and contribute to their society which bans, beats, molests, sues, and assassinates the Lord's Vaishnavas for their refusal to worship said deviants. Sulochana said the most dangerous problem for the current Vaishnavas on the planet is the GBC / Yadubara program, "they will kill us Vaishnavas" and he is right.  

Anyway, lets deal with this issue: Why is ISKCON now a ghost town (same reasons so many angry critics emerged)?

Its self-evident that a huge devastation overtook the Krishna religion, just by seeing these old movies of the big crowds on the public streets, and it is well known these crowds pretty much -- no longer exist. Where did the many book distributors at the airports go? Where have the big festivals in the down town of so many big cities gone away to? Why was all of this shut down? Why are so many devotees and temples struggling along at present with bare bones financial problems, when things used to be growing and expanding previously?

So the film is for most part showing evidence of that devastation, because it is self evident these big events have dwindled down, that is, if anyone even sees ANY devotees at all nowadays anywhere? So the movie itself is like a time capsule showing the serious deterioration of the movement post 1977. All the movie will do is raise the question, "Why was the movement devastated so badly and what caused that devastation"? 

So the movie is not really answering the first question most people have about the society at present. And many of my contemporary God brothers are also avoiding discussing the post 1977 history as well. A few followers of Narayan Maharaja even admitted to us -- that almost cent percent of the current devotees are in almost TOTAL denial about the post 1977 ISKCON history. This movie is simply another example of that factor, it does not give a voice to the many people who are currently alienated from the society. Why not interview some of those people who left? No, because the people who left mostly do not accept that God's successors are often debauchees, nor do they want to see God being advertised this way?

Thus, the first problem not being addressed is that the first generation of ORIGINAL followers has been alienated almost wholesale from the society, and they will never return. Of course a number of them have already left their bodies and they are gone permanently. Next problem, a number first-generation have also been siphoned off to various other camps, gurus, and so forth being frustrated with the current management structure. Generally it is the ISKCON GBC itself who are the people who sent many of these devotees running away from ISKCON and over to the Gaudiya Matha, Narayan Maharaja, Babajis etc. camps. 

Then there is the issue of the first generation's children or "youth," the second generation, also alienated almost wholesale, and many or most siphoned off to other gurus and so forth. And they too will never return to the society in its present form. Meanwhile various temples are reporting serious funding problems, building maintenance problems, manpower problems, and a decreasing ability to fund and produce formerly opulent festivals etc. as is happening at some temples as we speak. 

At the same time, the leaders report a problem of finding sufficient volunteers to take up management posts, because of apparently insurmountable management problems. So people like Yadubara have all along supported the corrupt regime which orchestrated this devastating purge of manpower from the society, and he went along with the bogus idea that these people are some kind of appointed or anointed gurus, parampara members or Messiah's. In other words Yadubara ilk feeds the machine that is giving Krishna a black eye of horrific publicity.

So he is one of the people who will have to answer to the higher authorities as to why he helped place ISKCON and its citizens in this devastating wood chipper devastating machinery. Never mind that, even their gurus are suffering sickness, fall down and premature death from accepting sins. So Yadubara's program spares no one, it kills not only the society overall but even their self appointed gurus of his society are taking a heavy toll from Yadubara's guru's program of making a pile of fake Jesus', who think they can all absorb sins. And they are suffering too. They self-evidently cannot absorb sins.

Yadubara's program is killing not only the ISKCON society collectively, but its even killing off their self-appointed gurus:

We should also consider there are many stories of the Demigod's making offenses to their guru, and the result was -- their kingdom was dismantled, shattered, destroyed and / or taken over by the demoniac. So when there are offenses to the guru, then the entire clan or kingdom can be overtaken by low class evil beings and the entire kingdom can be lost. And there is no immediate relief when this type of the devastation occurs. 

Sometimes the demigods have to pray for a long period to Lord Vishnu for release from having their kingdom overtaken and destroyed by the demons, and there are often long-suffering results from having their kingdom destroyed in this manner. ISKCON is essentially in the same boat. Many, many, many offenses were made to their guru, to the children, to the women class, to the seniors and elders, to the public, ad infinitum, all of which have been allowed to take place. 

And now we are simply seeing the odious result coming to roost, which is -- the society is a ghost town and the name and reputation of the society has gone into the tank. Did we forget to mention that a number of people think that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned by the core cadre of this leadership? Again, never addressed by the Yadubara ilk.

The ISKCON name and reputation will never be recovered simply by some armchair reminiscing on the past. Rather the structure of the society has to return to those previous days if the society expects success, as it was happening during in those previous days. For starters in the previous days, when Srila Prabhupada was here, everything was being offered to him. That has all been changed.

Nowadays food (bhogha) offerings, disciple offerings, money offerings, building offerings, manpower offerings, and all manner of other forms of offerings are being offered to condition souls falsely posing as the successors to God. In addition, the philosophy taught formerly was that God's successors must be pure, and that too has been thrown out the window along with most of the people who believed in that philosophy. 

Now the leaders are teaching that God's guru successors are often: fallen, drunkards, deviants, sexual predators, drug addicts, criminals, homosexuals, Las Vegas gamblers, machine gun swamis, and as Jayadvaita Swami sums it up -- their gurus are often "engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children." Why would any sane person want to join a religion that teaches this nonsense?

How can we reintroduce the good old days when the philosophy taught in the good old days has been tossed out the window and replaced with the idea that God's successors are often debauchees? How many people will accept a religion that teaches that God's successors are often debauchees? And some say that is the whole idea of these current leaders, to teach an odious philosophy that will never be accepted by the mass of people, in order to empty out the buildings, so the buildings can be exploited by a few elite leaders, which seems to be what has happened. 

So in order to revive the movement, we'd need to bring back the original teachings, at the same time address all the bogus siddhanta and crimes that occurred, and plan how to remove those responsible for introducing all these deviations. Anyway, just see what happens when an ex-gurukuli student tries to address how badly the current leaders treated the children (like himself) and how this alienates his generation from the society.



After reading this article I thought of the gurukula teachers who abused us. This is also local right nearby. I wish the ones that abused us weren't around ISKCON anymore at least. I know it is too late to have them prosecuted since the statue and limitations expired, and of course ISKCON leaders always sweep these things under the rug. 

There are so many reasons they weren't persecuted. My complaint now is why is Bhavananda who is well known in ISKCON as child abuser still respected as a spiritual leader giving classes on the vyasasan? If there are any current or recent child abusers in ISKCON or anywhere they should be dealt with regular law enforcement. I like how this guy Kevin Thorpe was dealt with. He really fits the profile of so called religious teachers.

Hanna Boys Center to step up staff training after second child-sex arrest
Hanna Boys Center’s director said the allegations of harm coming to at-risk kids in their care is ‘soul-crushing’ to staff at the Sonoma Valley facility.

CD: Bhakti Vikasa Swami is very reciprocative, I suggest contacting him, could be fruitful.

PADA: Various ex-kulis have contacted Bhakti Vikas swami over the years and he is STILL promoting the people who severely beat up children, and who cover up molesting with even more beatings, and now BVKS says he is done discussing it, we have to accept his child beating pals. Bhakti Vikas swami is a sannyasa disciple of Jayapataka, head honcho of the molester messiah's regime in Mayapura. I have talked to BVKS, he told me "its hard to believe the stuff I say" which is why we had to have his program sued for $400,000,000, the courts believed me, he did not. 

EK: I know a lot devotees don't like to give PADA credit. He comes over as just a mud slinger of ISKCON. I am glad he brings up this stuff because ISKCON leaders don't want to admit they did or are still doing anything wrong. I didn't want to be involved in this stuff for years and just wanted to be aloof from it. It is all about the new generation in ISKCON to be aware of past and current abuses in ISKCON. I know he really has a love for Srila Prabhupada and his sincere devotees who are following his instructions.

CD: When the past is resolved, the present is cognitive and faith is reaffirmed. Do the needful, regain your composure and demand your closure. You've EARNED it.

PADA: Right, the past is not being resolved, correct. Worse! The current and present "preaching" of the GBC and /or their hero spokesman Jayadvaita swami is -- that in ISKCON their gurus are often "engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children." And this is what we need to teach our little children as well, that God's successors are often caught "engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children"? 

Is this not currently illegally corrupting the morals of minors? What kind of religion teaches their little children that God's successors are often debauchees? This is fraud, plain and simple, and its an insult to God to say His successors are often debauchees. One of their bone head followers said he he wants to debate me on this in a public media forum, I said great, lets tell the public that these people preach that God's messiah successors are often debauchees. Lets do it! ys pd

CD: Are you really prepared for a debate?

PADA: There is nothing much really to debate here? We have repeatedly asked the GBC about this since 1979, where is their idea that acharyas are often debauchees found in shastra? And they kicked us out for even asking the question. I also told various GBC types around 1980, there would eventually be criminal child abuse lawsuits if they continued to treat children badly, and we were told basically -- so what, sue us already. (Later on, we did actually have them sued in Dallas for $400,000,000 and this bankrupted ISKCON). 

There is no shastra to back their idea that acharyas are often debauchees? Indeed, there nothing in Srila Prabhupada's teachings where he says that the successors to God, aka gurus, are often engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children. If the guru is "engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children," there will be rampant women and child abuse and other abuses going on all over, which is what happened. 

The amazing thing is, one of their foolish followers wants to debate me on a public forum on this, he really wants to defend worship of illicit sex with men, women and children as God's successors? OK then! Lets do it! Anyway, after the child abuse lawsuit came out, we probably had at least 150 million people agree with us that these people are criminally mistreating children, since it was in all the press media all over the world. 

CD: The GBC are protecting children, they have learned.

PADA: No, the GBC folks just buried a known sexual predator and pedophile in the holy dham, and they are telling even little children that this pedophile is in a "samadhi." What is "pedophile samadhi" exactly? And why is the GBC telling little children TODAY that God's successors are often engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children? This is being done all over ISKCON, its commonly preached that Krishna's successor gurus are often sexual predators, fallen and so on. And this is being taught to children. 

Jayadvaita swami and others are saying that gurus are often fallen and even engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children, and can anyone name even one GBC who is standing up against this type of teaching? They say that teaching children that God's successors are often engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children "protects children"? No, it debases and ruins children's understanding of who is God and who is His successor. 

Why does CD defend people who teach little children that God's guru successors are often sexual predators, pedophiles, debauchees, drunkards, drug addicts, criminals and so forth? Is that defending children, telling them they have to worship such a odious guru lineage? No, its destroying children to tell them God's guru lineage is populated by sexual deviants, molesters and etc. ... God's successors are often "engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children," how does this protect children? 

The GBC's apparent "service" since 1977 is to tell little children all over the globe that God's parampara guru successors are often debauchees engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children. As a result of the GBC's forcing little children to worship their sexual predator illicit sex guru parampara, many of the children of their society became victims of sexual predatory abuses, because a society becomes what it worships. 

We had the GBC sued for $400M, and they could not contest my statements then, or now. We engaged helping the FBI before they raided New Vrndavana. We engaged the Berkeley police, who saved me from being beaten to death by doing undercover on me. We also advised Federal Marshals on various criminal events and others. We engaged the media many times, including CBS news, Time Magazine, Monkey On A Stick book etc. and no one could counter my statements then, nor has anyone even attempted up to now. 

Jayadvaita swami says in a written legal document that a number of gurus in ISKCON have been "engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children." This is a legal document and its sums the entire GBC process since 1977, they promote the worship of illicit sex with men, women and children all along, and they still are. And they have taught children to worship their illicit sex guru lineage to the peril of these children, which is why they had to be sued, and were sued. 

Lawyers already looked at our materials and agreed we are 100 percent correct, they took the case and won. There are photos of the GBC leaders worshiping Kirtanananda in a samadhi, this can easily be legally proven, that they worship pedophiles as their samadhi messiahs and have all along, we have photographic and written evidence from them. You also failed to answer the question, is there any refutation of my claims, and if there is, where is it? ys pd

EK: Let us support ISKCON Bangalore led Madhu Pandita Prabhu. I just love all what he is doing to spread Krsna Consciousness.

Hare Krishna Hill Temple History

CD: One may draw lines in the sand, make "I,We, they, Us" claims and proudly define their cause though in reality we all have to be resolute to humbling ourselves and killing our own Kamsa's, Hiranyakashipu's. We have met the enemy and they are us. Conquer yourself first, once surrendered then victory is assured. This life is not for comfort, it is for purging.

PADA: Srila Prabhupada is the person who draws these lines, he says deviant people who pose as gurus and then engage in illicit sex are the most dangerous persons in human society, and they are destined for the most obnoxious regions of the universe. He also says, anyone who poses as guru artificially is never forgiven by the Lord, nor any agents of the Lord. 

So we can never forgive these deviations, unless we want to be their co-conspirators with the deviants. As for ISKCON Bangalore, the GBC has spent so far $20,000,000 suing them in the Supreme Court, and so Bangalore had to come out in the India press media and explain how the GBC worships illicit sex as their acharyas. 

One of their followers even wrote to tell me, the GBC will spend $100,000,000 suing your guys for the next 100 years. Wow, they seem to want to make us their main expenditure? Don' t they have any other priority other than sending us boat loads of free publicity money? Meanwhile there was not enough money to keep the Vrndavana pool staffed, so a kid drowned there. Chicago temple had to close due to bad plumbing etc. Yep! There is only enough money to sue us, not much left over apparently. 

Oddly, when I got the name Puranjana, I did not know what that was. Srila Prabhupada told me later, you will find out everything about this story when it is published in the Bhagavatam. Later on, it was published. In the story of King Puranjana it says -- when the master departs, there will be chaos in the name of bogus swamis' yogis and avatars. And the sincere devotees will have to rectify that. So I was already wondering, will there be chaos?, will I be involved in the chaos?, does this name have something to do with me being intertwined with the chaos? What form will this chaos take etc.? That was around 1974. So when he left, and there was chaos, I said, hmmm, wonder if I will now have to fight with this out cropping of bogus yogis, swamis and avatars? Hee hee! 

Worshiping false acharya is the pinnacle of ignorance, especially when they: Ban, beat, molest and assassinate my brothers and sisters and their children; They sell, close and destroy farms and temples and currently cannot even keep up the plumbing repairs in various places: They close temples and move 7ft. Krishna deities under a carport; They create giant bad publicity, bankrupt the society, say acharyas are often debauchees; Create massive child abuse webs and nests, and so on ad infinitum. All this is ignorance of the highest order. We have battled this regime and had some success at least, a lot of people currently agree with our version of this and our allies are increasing constantly. Even Yadubara says in his recent ISKCON film, the GBC are "appointed spiritual guides," yep, I was right, they were never appointed as gurus and this is coming out gradually everywhere. ys pd

CD: .....yes us and them.

PADA: Are you saying there is "no difference" between you and the molester empire, because there is no "us" and no "them," you are the same as them? 
Right, when thousands of kids were getting molested, many "devotees" told me I should be nice to the molester empire, tolerate, do not make waves, do not be offensive and etc. and voila, that is how these thinkers created the mass molesting empire. 

That is the exact reason we had it go to court, the courts know this is wrong, while the "devotees" did not want to help me for the most part. So the courts know that molesting empire is the evil them, and we have to be better than the evil them, and be the correcting "us." Apparently, Lord Vishnu would thus be bogus for appearing as Narasmigha and killing the demons, He is not equipoised and He sees us and them? So the people who worship Lord Narasimgha are bogus for seeing that there is the us and the them? And this is of course also famous, my reporting children being molested is "politics." That is how this issue was covered up, its a smokescreen. ys pd

AE: I too wish that Iskcon would have handled the abuse issues like this. Immediately contacting the authorities and having the person dealt with. It really shows where the priorities are. Actions speak louder than words and Iskcon's actions show something very different than the spiritual organization that it wants or shows to be. That's why countless members have simply decided to leave. Decided to stop drinking the koolaid. The resistance that Sanaka Rsi has gotten especially after all of the history and even a major lawsuit is truly amazing and shows very clearly the priority of the leaders. We can go on and on about this subject. Truly amazing!

Sanaka Rsi: In the material world the conditioned soul values appearances more than the essence, which is a rather materialistic outlook. From this perspective, in the context of education and child protection, any given school does not need to care and protect children, it is sufficient that it APPEARS to do so. So long as it looks good, it serves the required purpose. So long as the members of ISKCON remain conditioned this trait will prevail within the society as well...

Individuals operating from this paradigm will deny, minimize, resist and frown upon any and all attempts to expose the cancer of child abuse. For them child abuse is not a problem. The problem is when the abuse is publicized. Because it affects the appearances they so dearly value...

RM: Perfectly said!

PADA: So this movie of Yadubara is simply another attempt to paper over the issues and put a happy face on all these corrupt folks and their problems ...

AE: Very true. The result is impersonalism when personalism is preached.

Govinda Dasi: But it DOESNT look good.... And it SHOULD be exposed, so that it will change.

PADA: There is no child protection since the current ISKCON children are currently being "preached to" by the GBC that acharyas are often "engaged in illicit sex with men, women children" as they are being told by the current GBC. Telling little children that God's messiahs and "parampara of successors" are usually debauchees is corrupting the morals of minors. 

This is degrading the consciousness of these little children. There is no other religion on earth that tells little children that the successors to God are often sexual predators, drunkards, embezzlers, Reno gamblers, drug addicts, pill poppers, and all sorts of fallen behaviors. If we tell children that God's successors are debauchees, its also the same as saying God is a debauchee, because that is what His successors are doing. Its a way of making children become faithless, and its what they have preached since 1978. God's successors are debauchees since God is therefore a debauchee too, this is what the demons have preached all along since time began. And in ISKCON this is what they essentially preach to their children. Corrupting the morals of minors is considered as a crime in even mundane society ... ys pd

RM: This is exactly what Sanaka Rsi was talking about a few comments above.

PADA: So every current ISKCON temple is apparently telling children that God's successors are often debauchees? And this is "protecting children"? No, this is corrupting them. Children need to be told that God and / or His successors are NEVER debauchees. To tell children God's successors are debauchees is the same as saying God is a debauchee, this is wrong and this corrupts children. ys pd

AL: Wow!

CD: "So every current ISKCON temple is telling children.." you may stop right there. Pure speculation on your part as with most of your rhetoric.

Sanaka Rsi: Devotees ARE concerned with child protection. The trouble is that for some reason among ISKCON's leadership it's really difficult to find anyone that cares.

RM: Vaishnavas vs. fauxshnavas.

CD: Admittedly dear Sanaka Rsi, there are some slower thinking management personnel amongst the upper management in ISKCON, though currently working with middle-management I am seeing some good changes starting. 
My wife is running a faith based school within ISKCON jurisdiction and sometimes just getting a fire extinguisher purchase is like pulling teeth. 

So, entrenched mentalities exist, yet time brings us new's an evolving structure to a point. Also, as in wounds "time" is a healer now it's just getting the right treatment from the start then there's no permanent scars and there's a clean bill of health; mentally and physically.

Past mis-deeds will be addressed by us or others and there will be consequences past and present, no matter who issues them. Now to get pro-active administration going and these issues will be priority number ONE, times are a changin'...count on it! 

PADA: Sorry, the GBC has said all along that their gurus fall down, and in fact Jayadvaita swami says in ISKCON their gurus have been "engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children." And yes, this is being taught in all the GBC centers, and to children and everyone else, that the successors to God are often debauchees. And the proof is simple, as soon as one of our people goes there and says acharyas are not debauchees, they are banned, sued and removed etc. Why does CD program want to teach children that God's guru successors are often debauchees? 

And why do they never answer this point since they started preaching this in 1978? As for time factor, yes over time more and more people read our sites, and they write to us saying, yep God's successors are not debauchees, we are agreeing! So we are getting people gradually to reject their illicit sex with men, women and children messiahs project, its taking time but its working nicely. As long as they keep telling children they have to worship an illicit sex with men, women and children guru parampara, they will continue to lose people and we will continue to gain people. So that is the first point none of them has answered, why is the Chas / GBC program telling children God's successors are often debauchees, that would make God a debauchee, since the successor is the same as the original entity in quality. God is a debauchee is also preached by the demons since time began. ys pd

CD: PADA your comments are stuck in a groove. You also may stop misinterpreting my presentations, you seem to love to vitalize your agendas using me as your scape-goat, sorry that is not going to happen. 

PADA: I am quoting many, many, many GBC gurus, and many GBC documents, and even newspapers, where it says -- GBC's gurus fall down, and many became sexual predators, drug addicts and so forth. Jaydvaita swami himself says the GBC gurus are often fallen and "engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children." I am repeating the question because you still have not answered it, why are you folks teaching children that gurus (God's successors) are often engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children? 

I know that is what the GBC teaches children because that was the first argument I had with them, they wanted my children to worship their illicit sex and drugs messiah Jayatirtha, I said my children do not worship illicit sex and drugs guru programs, and that is what they still say, gurus fall into illicit sex and drugs, this is what they said all along, its in many documents. 

And Jayadvaita simply confirmed that when he said their gurus are having illicit sex with men, women and children, again all written and documented by themselves. That is what they teach, and its easily proven in their own documents. I am lumping everyone in because this is what GBC folks preached for the past decades, they agreed with GBC documents. 

I have thus read many, many, many GBC documents, including Jayadvaita swami's saying that their GBC's gurus are often falling into illicit sex with men, women and children. This is all legally stated, legally documented, and legally reposted by many, many folks including sometimes various news medias, court cases etc., and we quoted many of these documents extensively on our sites. The leaders are not dealing with it at all, they have said all along in their documents that their gurus are falling down into illicit behaviors, they and their documents have said that repeatedly, and all along, none of these documents has ever been recanted, and in their lectures they also say their gurus fall down. 

They also buried a known pedophile in a samadhi in the holy dham recently, claiming that pedophiles are in samadhi. This is all documented, by them, and we posted the photos and so on. I have asked you and them, why you folks support a group that buries pedophiles in a samadhi in the holy dham, and you keep not giving any answer? Either pedophiles are in samadhi or they are not? Why don't you know this? Either gurus engage in illicit sex with men, women and children, or they do not? Why can't you folks just say one way or the other? 

CD: Lump all in whatever pile you choose, but it is not a collective consortium. Please get to the source and get your head together with them, you'll just go in circles with circumstantial external nonsense. Justice will be done with or with-out you. Your pride is blinding you, Bhagavan is in control, follow His servants, avoid the riff-raff.

PADA: OK so these followers in ISKCON are not part of the leadership of ISKCON, a leadership which says that gurus are often debauchees? That is not what Srila Prabhupada says, he says false gurus -- and their followers -- are all destined to go down, because they are all implicated. You have failed to read the shastra. Meanwhile, you forgot to answer my first question, since the GBC and their prominent spokesmen like Jayadvaita swami say that gurus are often falling into illicit sex with men, women and children, why should we allow this odious deviation to be taught to children without protesting? 

Worse, you say we should allow all manner of odious deviations to go on in the name of God, and then sit around and let Bhagavan Himself clean up your GBC mess. You mean to say -- you can create a giant mess, and God has to clean up your mess? God is your personal janitor, He cleans up your mess for you? Wow, so you are such a powerful person, you can generate a crap storm, and then you'll have God clean up your crap storm, you are so advanced, God is your personal butler? ys pd

EK: I wonder where this dialogue will lead to. Well I know the GBC are bogus since they are not following Prabhupada's instructions. They are not following Direction of Management. GBC members are supposed to be voted in by members of ISKCON. They are just in their for life. GBC don't live like Sadhus. They have a opulent life. If you question them on any of their suspicious activities they criticize you are making offenses. When Lord Rama heard his citizens questioning about Sita Devi since she lived in Ravanas forest for so long they separated. Plus they keep rubber stamping gurus. No one was ever appointed by Prabhupada. 

Well If the 2 schools left in ISKCON in Vrndavan and Mayapur can shut down soon that would be a big accomplishment for us Kulis. No more kids should be used to make propaganda and to enrich ISKCON on kids. Parents need to raise their kids. GBC is not going to change. I have a of respect for Jaganatha Swami the temple president of Berkeley he is totally outspoken of any the abuse the kids went through. He has a grown son who never went to the gurukulas as he knew he couldn't trust strangers. He won't let any child molesters even visit the Berkeley temple. Zero tolerance is what is required. One has to take a stance.

CD: Good question Prabhu, best case scenario this dialogue could get some people back to Godhead, worst case we exacerbate our ignorance. We'll see my friend, we'll see...more to come ;)

PADA: Yes, we need to shut this all down. In 1980 the GBC's wrote a position paper (Jaggadish, Jayadvaita, Satsvarupa) entitled "The Mahajanas Have Difficulties" where they began teaching everyone in ISKCON including the children that the Lord's Greatest Mahajanas are subject to mundane illusion and they may fall into illicit desires etc. They began in earnest poisoning the minds of the children and they still are. This needs to stop. We need to start teaching children that God and His messiahs are not degraded debauchees who are subject to illusion, this is Satanic. ys pd

EK: No more excuses for immoral behavior. It is high time way overdue since last 40 years. We all need to be vigilante. Puranjan has trying to keep them honest since 1978.

PADA: Srila Prabhupada says this over and over and over, anyone who criticizes the mahajanas is an asura, what to speak of teaching this odious process to children as the GBC has been doing. ys pd

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