Questions to New Dwarka Authorities

The hokey messiah's club in 1978

[PADA: Vidura Mahatama das is a newly initiated disciple of Srila Prabhupada. He self-evidently knows the siddhanta better than most of the original disciples, which means, Srila Prabhupada's mercy is available to anyone even now. It would have been nice if many "senior" disciples had been writing nice materials like this all along, but they failed to do so because they failed to understand the siddhanta. In sum, they took their connection to Krishna for granted and did not develop it properly, nor did many of them think defending Krishna and His religion is important.] 

Some questions for the New Dwarka assembly of devotees

by Vidura Mahatma dasa

What about the actual meaning of the samsara song ... does it only apply to a particular type of devotee or spiritual master? A good question but not the kind of questions we are seeing from the New Dwarka community or any other ISKCON center for that matter.

Yes, the samsara-dava prayers definitely do apply to a very particular type of devotee or spiritual master:

"This song is offering obeisances particularly to the spiritual master, and the symptoms of the spiritual master are described in this prayer. The spiritual master has two kind of symptoms in his activities. One kind is called constant, and other kind is called temporary. 

So the first verse says that the constant symptom of the spiritual master is that he can deliver his disciples from the blazing fire of this material existence. That is the eternal qualification of spiritual master. Trāṇāya means for deliverance, andkāruṇya means compassionate, very merciful. The spiritual master comes to the deliverance of the fallen souls out of his causeless mercy. 

Nobody has any business for the sufferings of others. The best example is Lord Jesus Christ, that he suffered for others. And it is the principle in the Bible that he accepted all the sins of others. 

[PADA: Right, this is the problem in New Dwarka and all over ISKCON, they say that their gurus are falling down because they have taken too many sins. Yet, who authorized these gurus to say that they are like Jesus and they can absorb sins? 

And if they are falling from taking sins, why are they still being allowed to make pretend they are like Jesus and they can take sins, when it is self evident they are not qualified? Svavasa says most of their GBC gurus have fallen, so we should emphasize Srila Prabhupada more, and that is good, but why then is he still allowing placing the GBC gurus photos on the altars, and having them worshiped as de facto messiahs, and bhogha is still being offered to these unqualified persons on the altars?]

This is the sign of spiritual master, that he voluntarily accepts the sinful activities of others and delivers them. That is the qualification of spiritual master. How it is? Just like ghanāghanatvam. Ghanāghanatvam means dense cloud in the sky. The first example has been said, that this material existence is just like forest blazing fire. 

Now, to extinguish the forest blazing fire, there is no use of sending fire brigade. The firebrigade cannot approach the forest fire; neither any man can go there to extinguish the fire. One has to depend completely on the mercy of nature. That means one has to completely depend on the cloud in the sky. Otherwise, there is no question of pouring water on that blazing fire. 

So the example is very appropriate. As man-made engine or fire brigade is unable to extinguish the forest blazing fire, similarly, the material existentional blazing fire cannot be extinguished by any man-made method."

Song Purports : Purport to Sri-Sri-Gurv-astakam -- Los Angeles, January 2, 1969

[PADA: Right, the GBC's gurus are claiming to be the fire department who can absorb the sins of others, but they cannot even absorb their own sins. Of course now the GBC are worshiping Kirtanananda's dead carcass in the holy dham as a messiah in their chain of gurus, because they think sexual predators and criminals are in samadhi with Krishna, and deserve to be buried in Krishna's holiest land. 

New Dwarka's samadhi acharya?

Thus, the GBC and New Dwarka leaders are STILL training their followers to worship such sexual predators and criminals as "samadhi messiahs" even now. And Bhakta das is a big promoter of these people and the HKC Jaipur / Dayalu Nitai / Prahlad / Sanat / Mukunda folks have been promoting Bhakta das, because they are part of this program of encouraging innocent people to worship sexual predators and criminals in samadhis. Svavasa and Sura have made some progress in addressing that the GBC's gurus are not very reliable, and thus we need to worship Srila Prabhupada, and that is a good start, but more needs to be done to fix this imbroglio.]

"So guru means spiritual master means who can deliver one from this forest fire. Just like when there is forest fire, the animals are very much disturbed, and they die mostly. The snakes, they die immediately. So this forest fire, saṁsāra-dāvānala,is going on perpetually, and the person or the authorized person who can deliver you from this forest fire of material existence, he's called guru, or the spiritual master. Saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam. [...] Just like cloud takes the water from the sea-cloud hasn't got its own water; cloud takes water from the sea—similarly, a spiritual master brings mercy from the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Just see the comparison. He has no own mercy, but he carries the mercy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the qualification of spiritual master."
Lecture on Gurvastakam at Upsala University -- Stockholm, September 9, 1973

The Gurvastakam is meant for:
Spiritual master who can actually deliver his disciples
Spiritual master who is directly receiving the mercy of Lord Krishna
Spiritual master who is authorized
Spiritual master in the same category of Lord Jesus Christ (a śaktyāveśa avatāra)

If there should be no change from the standard that Srila Prabhupada set, why are there even other initiating gurus to begin with?

This is the real question which nobody wants to ask. It had always only been Srila Prabhupada as the initiating guru in ISKCON. Upon his disappearance this changed and many gurus sprouted and began initiating their own disciples, splitting the world into zones and having their disciples in those zones chant their own names in the temple instead of Srila Prabhupada's name. New Dwarka leaders acknowledge this history and assure us that the GBC, however, "outlawed" this practice. So the GBC has a record of changing the standard that Srila Prabhupada set but for some reason all of them still rely on the conclusions of the same GBC instead of what Srila Prabhupada actually says.

Now for some reason the devotees in New Dwarka insist that Srila Prabhupada is only the siksa guru of new devotees in ISKCON today. This is a huge change in the standard Srila Prabhupada set. Srila Prabhupada established himself as the spiritual master and initiating guru for all members of the institution:

"I am the Spiritual Master of this institution, and all the members of the Society, they're supposed to be my disciples. They follow the rules and regulations which I ask them to follow, and they are initiated by me spiritually" (Srila Prabhupada Radio Interview, 12 March 1968, San Francisco)

Srila Prabhupada never said that his status as spiritual master of the institution depended on his physical presence, just as he never said that the morning prayers being dedicated to him depended on his physical presence. Srila Prabhupada simply set a certain standard and practice for the society to follow and that's that. There should have never been any change to that standard. But while the devotees of New Dwarka take shelter of the principle of no change to support one aspect of the established standard in ISKCON (mangala-aratik), they reject the very same principle when applied to an even bigger established standard - initiations!

If my guru can "bloop", in which case I would have to take shelter of Srila Prabhupada, why can't I / shouldn't I just take shelter of Srila Prabhupada from the very beginning?

This is a very sensible question. But we can hardly expect such intelligent inquiry from the new devotees when the most senior devotees who have been actively serving in the movement since their 20's - who are supposed to be the bright and shining examples for the new devotees - say things like "I don't know one way or the other...whatever the GBC, whatever the big sastric authorities, pandits saw...I just wana do the right thing. [...] Whatever you guys say is the right thing to do i'll do it." - Senior book distributor at New Dwarka.

[PADA: Yep, these advanced devotees like Banubhatta do not know whether we should worship sexual predator criminals -- or Srila Prabhupada -- as the guru of ISKCON. That is why we have had all these criminals in Vyasa seats in the first place. At least Banubhatta is favorable to some of our ideas, such as the original books, but seriously, he does not know that all these hokey gurus are bogus, and who should be the guru instead?]

Regarding the samsara-dava prayer's dedication, the temple president of New Dwarka asked another senior brahmachari of the temple "there are many regular gurus who have blooped from Krishna consciousness. So who do they (the disciples of the blooped guru) chant it to?

"Obviously Srila Prabhupada." the brahmachari replied.

The temple president continued "And the point being is yes your guru can bloop. And if he's blooped then what do you do?"

"Go to Srila Prabhupada" they both concluded.

But Srila Prabhupada teaches that an actual bona fide guru can never "bloop" or fall down and that a guru falling down means he was never a real guru to begin with! So why is New Dwarka trying not to change the standard in one place but then drastically changing the standard in another place? It is clear that none of them know the actual standard.

Srila Prabhupada says regarding the position of the spiritual master:

"One should take initiation from a bona fide spiritual master coming in the disciplic succession, who is authorized by his predecessor spiritual master. This is called diksa-vidhana." (SB 4.8.54 Purport)

"A bona fide spiritual master is in the disciplic succession from time eternal, and he does not deviate at all from the instructions of the Supreme Lord..." (Bg 4.42 Purport)

"The guru must be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru must be accepted from the topmost class." (Cc Madhya-lila 24.330 Purport)

"One should not become a spiritual master unless he has attained the platform of uttama-adhikārī." (Nectar of Instruction 5)

"There is no possibility that a first-class devotee will fall down, even though he may mix with nondevotees to preach." (Cc Madhya-lila 22.71 Purport)

"...sometimes, if a spiritual master is not properly authorized, and only on his own initiative becomes a spiritual master, he may be carried away by an accumulation of wealth and large numbers of disciples. His is not a very high grade of devotional service."(Nectar of Devotion 14)

Compare these statements by Srila Prabhupada with the GBC resolution:

"...it should be clearly understood that if such diksa or siksa gurus deviate from strictly following, they may fall down from their position." (Res. 303)

Clearly a deviation from the standard taught by Srila Prabhupada. Yet New Dwarka openly endorses it. This is called a double-standard.

[PADA: That is why Jayadvaita swami sums this all up by saying that in ISKCON they are often worshiping illicit sex with men, women and possibly children as their gurus. 

When I was in New Dwarka I told Svavasa that Harikesha is NOW advertising that gurus can wear condoms when they have illicit sex, and his photo is on the New Dwarka altars being worshiped as good as GOD -- today. Why is that? Svavasa, Nirantara, Govinda Datta etc. all told me, this is the problem for the GBC deity worship program, its not our problem. 

That means they are saying gurus are conditioned souls, and worse, the guru is often a debauchee. Anyway we are glad this is finally being more openly discussed. 

The Los Angeles police once stopped me on my bicycle and told me, "stay away from Watseka, don't you know, these people want to kill you!" And they drove behind me and escorted me home in their cop car. Yep, basically the whole world and the LA cops for sure know all about the program of having people beaten and killed for the crime of worship of Srila Prabhupada. 

That is the question, "Why did you make is a criminal offense to worship the pure devotee in his own building"? That is what they will all have to answer for, and we should actually pray for the souls of those who make it a crime to worship bona fide gurus and they want us to worship their false messiahs instead, and they will beat and kill us if we don't. 

The good news is, the police have had mercy on me and they have saved me from this lot. Without the police, these guru goonda people would have eaten me alive for supper a long time ago. ys pd]