Ajit Krishna / Torben Nielsen / Kim Moller / Phantom Guru?

Kim Moller: No Kim is not in favour of JAS, this is propaganda, we have to behave and act like gentlemen. This PADA on the other hand is notorious for lying and inventing stories. So when it comes to quote we follow Prabhupada and shastra who says "Kṛṣṇa is the first spiritual master, and when we become more interested, then we have to go to a PHYSICAL spiritual master. Lecture on BG 4.34 -- New York, August 14, 1966" However PADA is rejecting Srila Prabhupada's clear instructions regarding guru and parampara.

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PADA: Fine except Ajit Krishna, Torben Nielsen, Kim Moller  -- and Jayadvaita and company -- still have not named their "physically present" guru who -- actually exists? Kim and Jayadvaita's programs both say that we need to surrender to "the principle" of the living guru, but then they fail to tell us who that is? Its the no name, no photo, no books, nobody, non-existing acharya, again! A phantom.     

Of course this begs the question, why are Kim, Ajit and Torben quoting the exact statements and ideas of Jayadvaita, i.e. that there is a "living guru" out there somewhere or other, but we cannot give his name? Many of you living guru folks, including Jayadvaita swami, are combinedly telling others to surrender to your non-existing phantom guru. 

Meanwhile our Prabhupadanugas are moving ahead because we have hundreds of "living persons," aka shiksha gurus, who are doing actual real time preaching all over the place, and we can identify our guru. Meanwhile you folks cannot identify the worshiped person or persons in your program, but we can identify ours?

What we are simply asking all you folks -- including your hero Jayadvaita -- is that if you folks have a physically present spiritual master on the planet now, why can't he be identified? Kim, you and your pals like Ajit Krishna, Torben Nielsen, Jayadvaita swami and others have told us that there is no need for an actual "named" guru, rather "guru is only the principle." 

Where do we find in Vedic culture that there is no actually identified guru, there is only "the principle" of a guru? Where does Srila Prabhupada say we do not need to worship any actual guru, we only need to worship "the principle" -- or idea -- of a non-existing guru?

It seems that the "principle" of surrender to a guru has no meaning -- if there is no guru to surrender to? Of course, worship and devotion to a non-existing person makes no sense to anyone. We have to surrender to, and worship, a person -- who does not factually exist? That is not the teachings of the Vedas. All glories to -- nobody? You are saying we are wrong to have people offer their bhogha to Srila Prabhupada, nope, they have to offer their bhogha to -- no one? What is that?

*** Can we buy actual things with no actual money but "the principle" of money?

*** Can we drive to Los Angeles with no actual car, but "the principle" of a car?
    
*** Can we drink no actual water but drink "the principle" of water?

*** Can we not show up for work and tell our boss that we are no longer going to be engaged in real work, but only engaged in "the principle of work" -- while staying at home?

More importantly, how can we base a religion on the idea that we have to worship a person who MAYBE exists somewhere, but we do not know any of the details -- whom, how, when, or even the whereabouts of this alleged person? We have a guru out there somewhere, maybe, but who knows for sure, thus we cannot tell you if our guru actually even exists. Then you guys wonder why we are making progress and you are not?

This is exactly what Jayadvaita Swami says, there is a no named physical person we have to worship and not Srila Prabhupada. We have to worship a person who cannot be named, that is what JAS says and that is what Kim's team says. No we did not invent anything, JAS says we have to worship the unspecified living person and Kim is his topmost disciple, he says the same thing.

Why does Kim repeat JAS? And Ajit Krishna, Torben Nielsen are thus disciples of Jayadvaita, since they repeat JAS saying we need to worship the unspecified living person, and so so these guys. Why are they repeating JAS as their living guru? Sorry, Srila Prabhupada says we have to give the name of our guru or we are mayavada. 

And of course Kim cites the HKC Jaipur / Dayalu Nitai / Prahlad das / Mukunda das program's support for Bhakta das, a big cheer leader of the GBC's gurus and their "living guru" idea. Ummm, they just do not get it do they, we are not going to worship debauchees as our messiahs? 

This is just not going to fly anymore, its over and out for this program. Its been exposed too much, not only by us but the public medias and etc, its amazing to us that anyone thinks their illicit sex pooja program can be revived? People keep asking us, why is the HKC Jaipur party surrendering themselves to the biggest promoters of the illicit sex messiahs program, meanwhile, artificially making pretend they are against this program?

The good news is that the big writer for this team, Sanat das (Steve Voith), has insisted that a devotee associate has to place a photo of Bob Dylan on his altar. Is this their living guru? So we would rather have this, they have at least identified their living guru as Bob Dylan. To us that's good because it more honest, and we appreciate that. At least these guys have a living guru! Whether or not their idea will be accepted in Vaishnava circles is another thing ...

Anyway, Jayadvaita swami told me personally, we have to worship the living person, but he would not identify this living person, and Kim's program does the same exact thing. That would make JAS the authority of Kim's team, they are repeating him. Sorry! We are supposed to act as the agents for the pure devotee, and not as the replacements and successors for the pure devotee, that's all there is to it. And as for your idea that we have to worship nobody, well, even a kindergarten child knows this is as bogus as it gets, "worship no one and nothing" is not a religion, its atheism aka mayavada. ys pd