Bhajahari Murphy (UK) is snoring ...

Are we supposed to be snoring when there is injustice?

PADA: Thanks Bhajahari Murphy (UK) but your plan for devotees to "be more mellow" is how all the banning, beating, molesting and murders were allowed to take place. You folks were so busy "being mellow" you allowed your own Church to be turned into a criminal empire which was mistreating women, children, brahmanas and cows, all of which was being reported in the newspapers -- as you slept and snored.

At the same time, it appears your "going along to get along" program of acquiescing helped put the main suspects in Srila Prabhupada's poison complaint into big Vyasa seats, where their empire remains even today. Not sure how that helped things along? You put your head in the sand hoping the boogey man would disappear, and he didn't, great strategy there!

And yet, as soon as we launched the poison issue, then your IRM party pals (like Krishna Kanta Desai) announced that you folks are "declaring war" on PADA and / or the poison issue, which you folks said is all "fabrication." Yep, you guys are always ready to kiss the jack boots of Judas and Pontius Pilate, and fight tooth and nail -- to help the evil doers -- and squash us. So you are friendly and "mellow" with the evil doers, while we get your jack boots in our faces.

Yep! Lets help Judas, and attack the people who oppose Judas? And by your saying the poison issue is bogus -- that helped me get death threats for "making things up." That is how you and your pals program gets people like us killed, you repeat their slogans -- used by the fanatical supporters of the Judas sabha. Your program is the program that is creating the fanaticism and violence, direct or de facto.

You folks were -- as you yourself admit -- "snoring." Well duh, even most of the karmis ALREADY know what happened here, you folks were sleeping as the pirates hi-jacked your ship. And thus you enabled a criminal empire to begin to emerge in ISKCON by acquiescing with it. Thus, even the average guy in the street ALREADY knows you guys were too busy sleeping and snoring, and thus you did not counteract the evil empire and its agenda.

But! You will suddenly wake up and start a "full scale WW III" program -- as soon as someone attacks your Judas pal's "poison sabha" and sexual predator acharya's regime. Only then do you wake up to start a huge fight against us -- big time -- because we are against the worship of Judas. Yep, you will go to sleep as women and children are victimized, but as soon as the Judas poisoner program is getting a poke in the nose from us, you are out there with your boxing gloves on -- to defend and protect the Judas regime, the real love of your lives?

The fact that you folks acquiesce if not protect a criminal messiahs program is ALREADY well known and self evident to the mass of public (and to the mass of devotees, hence the giant exodus to the Gaudiya Matha -- to get away from the criminal's messiah's project). This is not even big news anymore, the average Joe on the street knows you folks were too busy snoring as ISKCON's devotees, women, children and cows were being victimized, because all this was exposed and duly reported in all their news medias many times over.

And the mass of devotees already knows that as soon as we went after the Judas party, you defended that party and KK declared full scale war on PADA, because Krishna Kanta was meeting with Jayapataka and co. trying to work with them (and not us). Yep, you folks wanted to have tea and crumpets with "the poison is going down" program, and you wanted to "work with" JPS, who is among the founder fathers of every single complaint in the Windle Turley case.

We all know about that too. You are still tethered to them. And thus Krishna Kanta said we need to stop the PADA news in 1997; To stop the poison case; To not sue the GBC over the changed books; And -- to NOT help the molesting victims etc (so we can prop up JPS).

OK we agree, the few of us who made public protests could not save the situation, but at least we protested in public and made some effort to confront the evil doers, which is why me and Sulochana ended up on their hit list. The reason we were on their hit list is because -- not enough folks joined with us (ok guys like yourself). And so we were seen as only a very few "isolated crank" targets.

And that process emboldened the evil doers to come after us. And they did. The evil doers plan was, we dissenters would go down, and then the rest of you folks would simply continue sleeping and snoring on the lap of maya, and the status quo would remain. That means your snoring policy was for starters -- placing us in danger. And this resulted in Sulochana's being murdered, because the evil doers knew people like you would not protest even if they did murder some of us. And that is what factually happened.

Thus! Even AFTER the Sulochana murder -- the main people who went after the GBC were the karmi media, karmi police and FBI (whom we helped) and not so much the rank and file devotees like yourself. And now you are still saying our program was foolish and fanatical, just as our banning, beating, killers were saying the whole while. You are saying what they are saying, these guys are too critical, loose cannons, fanatics, offenders etc. and that is how you folks get us killed.

After Sulochana was murdered we did not (for example) see any of you guys out protesting with signs in front of the Watford / Letchmore Heath manor -- protesting that the leaders there are placing deviants into Vyasa seats resulting in killing of dissenters. There really wasn't a significant peep from you guys, thus the people who protested and exposed this were mainly -- the "karmi" media folks.

The karmi society had to do your job for you, and protest your own brothers being assassinated. The karmis had to tell you that allowing deviants in a Vyasa and allowing them to assassinate dissenters is wrong, thus the karmis had to preach to you about what is right and what is not. You could not figure this out on your own, they had to preach to you about what your duty is supposed to be.

Whereas in the Catholic Church we find abuse and other victims making -- public protests. Of course in India several thousand people will gather to protest a bad traffic intersection that is causing accidents, because they have at least some symptoms of life.

Your acquiescing attitude is how you folks got us people killed in the first place: (A) we are protesting the evil doers, (B) you folks are saying we are foolish fanatics (and offenders) which then feeds the idea that we are simply trouble makers, and offenders etc. -- and that makes us targets for violence. That is how you folks get us beaten and killed.

That is how your ilk aided and abetted the entire process of banning, beating, molesting and murders, you painted us "dissenters" as fools and fanatics, and you still are. And you are apparently quite proud of your helping that agenda? Sorry. Acquiescing with criminals simply causes MORE criminal mayhem and victimization,

Sulochana said, that you guys painting us as fanatics is -- painting a bull's eye on our backs, you folks are agreeing with the GBC -- that we are the main problem. Of course you "mellow" folks saying our opposing homosexuals and child molesters posing as messiahs is "fanatical," is how you goody two shoes folks co-created a huge molestation empire, and got some of us killed in the process. You knocked the legs off our opposition to that regime by branding us as foolish and fanatical, and that is how you empowered the molester empire and its violent dissent suppressing regime. And this was confirmed many times by Sulochana, he used to call you guys the "silent majority" and "zombies."

Thank God the karmis saved us from you slackers. Yep, when the poop hit the fan, you decided its time to be mellow out and "snore." Great! So that is why an ordinary woman news reporter asked me, "How come your people read the Bhagavad gita, a war about injustice, but your people do not act against injustice?" And now we can quote your own statement as the answer to her question, when all this was going on, you decided -- its time to snooze and snore!

Hey hey hey, yep when your house was invaded by pirates, you went to sleep, snoring. Even this reporter knew that means, you folks have no clue what the Bhagavad Gita is talking about. Snoring indeed, that is how you helped the GBC take over, you snored while they plundered. The good news is, you finally admit you were snoring the whole time.

As for Windle Turley, we were writing for several years in our newsletters that some of the molesting victims were committing suicide. None of you folks seemed to have thought that was a big problem, at least we never heard much of anything from anyone on the topic. Apart from PADA, Pranada dasi was the only person even writing about this crisis as far as we can tell. OK, it appeared as if almost no one cared, it was not a priority issue?

We certainly never heard a peep out of you on the topic at the time? And what was your great solution anyway? More dead bodies! What else? Same as the GBC's solution. So after this court case was filed and made public, the suicides went down to almost nil, which you say was the foolish and fanatical solution. Why does your solution always involve -- dead victims -- all the time? Srila Prabhupada says this is the solution of the demons, to do un-beneficial horrible things -- that kills people. Of course your program is not even killing mature and self-capable people, its killing innocent and defenseless children.

Can't you guys ever think of anything better than -- let's create more death? Lets victimize the victims even more. Oh I forgot, your solution has been the same as the GBC's program was at the time.

Simultaneously we had the problem of hundreds of kids who were still going to their "schools" in New Vrndavana, Mayapura etc. What was your plan to get them out? OK, I forgot, you wanted them to stay there where they were getting mistreated. Why does your plan always include children being mistreated, that is, if you cannot make them dead?

So yes, our plan ALSO got hundreds of these kids pulled out of there -- because after the case was filed -- many parents started pulling their kids out -- in droves. Why did you wan't the abuse to continue and have this situation unchanged, which is what the GBC wanted? Whatever Judas wants, you want the same?

Of course our dear friends like the Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad team, they not only wanted the deaths and abuse to continue -- they wrote in public that they were going to help the GBC by going to Dallas to violently attack the children themselves, and do the GBC's dirty work for them. They are real servants of the child oppressors. Yep, they are just like you, mellow with the evil doers, and jack boots on the victims and anyone who helps them.

Anyway -- notice the pattern here -- once again a "karmi" person has to save YOUR society's children from YOUR -- snoring program. A "karmi" has to save their lives and get them pulled out of these schools and you are upset -- that these children did not suffer more abuse and / or die?

You wanted Krishna's and Srila Prabhupada's children to suffer more abuse and even die, and yet you claim to be their servant? Why is your solution always the same as the GBC's has been, -- more child abuse and -- death? The "karmis" are doing your job, saving your society's children, and you are upset that some of the victims of your snoozing program even -- survived?

And yes, Turley got a bad idea of the religion from YOU folks and your NEGLECT of this issue, just like MILLIONS of other people got a bad idea of the religion from you same folks neglect of all the other problems. Your snoring program has made millions of people get a bad idea of the religion, not just one guy in Dallas?

I have a pamphlet from my company about how to handle "a crisis at work" -- like an earthquake, power failure, gun man on the loose on the premises, an explosion etc., and it says, the worse thing you can do in a crisis is -- nothing. Ok your snoring program.

So the upshot is -- Windle Turley had to grab Srila Prabhupada's children out of your sleeping hands and put them into his own hands, to save them from abuse and death. If he is the bad guy here, and the children fared better in his hands than your snoring hands, what does that make you guys? The children were being abused and dying in your snoring hands, and the "demons" have to save children from your program, then what is your position?

Anyway it was the children who told Turley the religion was to blame because they had been told "Srila Prabhupada wanted all this" by the people you and Krishna Kanta wanted to work with, like Jayapataka. You folks told me in 1997 you wanted to work with the VERY SAME people who brain washed these children and created the ENTIRE negative content of the Turley case. You are tethered to the people who created ALL the bad content in the Turley case, every single stitch and piece of it, including many testimonies of how people were being mis-treated -- while you were snoring away. You are complaining about the Turley case, while kissing the jack boots of the very people who made the entire case happen in the first place?

You have wrote some stronger materials recently, and that is good, but at this point, its like waiting for your house to burn to ashes and then running out with a tea cup of water, its too little too late, albeit a cup of water is more relief than none. Anyway, not too worry, people like myself, Sulochana and a few others, and ordinary folks like the police, FBI, media and courts, we all cleaned this up for you while you were snoring. ys pd

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MAHESH RAJA PRABHU Note:

I was reading PD's post of Bhaja Hari's talk to be "mellow" and IRM'S mellow stance on Poison Issue. It has NEVER worked. The result is: you be mellow -- they walk over you. They use you as a doormat. Judge a tree by the fruit it bears. What HAS worked is EXPOSING the Anti Ritvik crooks like Srila Prabhupada says:

731209SB.LA Lectures

So this Krsna consciousness movement is a challenge to all the rascals and fools, that's all. SO THOSE WHO HAVE TAKEN THIS MOVEMENT VERY SERIOUSLY, THEY SHOULD BE VERY SOBER AND UNDERSTAND AT LEAST YOU MUST EXPOSE ALL THESE RASCALS. THAT WILL BE VERY MUCH APPRECIATED BY KRSNA. Thank you very much. (end)

731230mw.la Conversations

Prabhupada: WELL, IN POLITICS, UNLESS THERE IS VIOLENCE, YOU CANNOT TAKE. SIMPLY BY SWEET WORDS, NOT POSSIBLE. That was the difference between our political leaders, Mahatma Gandhi and Subhash Chandra Bose.

So Subhash Chandra Bose was of opinion that --and that is a fact-- that "You are agitating non-violence. These people will never care for your non-violence. Unless there is violence, so these Britishers will never go away." So Gandhi would say, "No, I am not going to accept this violence theory. I shall continue." So for thirty years... He started from 1917 and up to '47, the Britishers did not go. But when Subhash Chandra Bose, he saw... He took the political power. 

He became the president. But Gandhi was angry. So because he was old leader, out of respect, he resigned the presidentship. Then he though that "So long this man will live, there will be no independence." So he went out of India and joined with Hitler, and Tojo, Japanese. 

Nitai: Who went out of India? 

Prabhupada: This Subhash Chandra Bose. And he organized the INA, Indian National Army. So when this Indian National Army was organized and the Britishers... They were great politicians. They saw, "Now the army is going to national movement. We cannot be." Then they left. Because it was not possible. 

They were maintaining British Empire with Indian money, Indian men. You see? They did not conquer by their British soldiers all round the Far East, Burma and the Mesopotamia, and the Egypt. That was Indian army, the Sikh soldiers and the Gurkha soldiers, and Indian money. On the pretext that "For Indian protection, we are maintaining this army." Actually, they were expanding their empire. Africa, Burma. And when they saw that "India is lost," voluntarily they liquidated all others. Went back... Back to home, back to Godhead. (devotees laugh) 

SO IN POLITICS THIS IS NONSENSE, NON-VIOLENCE. IT IS NONSENSE, COWARDISM. IN POLITICS IN SWEET WORDS YOU CANNOT GET. THERE MUST BE FIGHT, ARMS. THAT IS ARMY. "IF YOU DON'T AGREE, THEN FIST." THAT IS POLITICS. THERE MUST BE VIOLENCE. OTHERWISE YOU CANNOT CONTROL. WHEN THERE IS EDUCATED GOOD MEN, THEN YOU CAN ARGUE. BUT WHEN PEOPLE ARE RUFFIANS, THERE IS NO QUESTION OF GOOD...  ARGUMENTUM VACULUM, 

I TOLD YOU THE OTHER DAY... (BREAK) ...IN THE BEGINNING OF CREATION, THE FIGHT BETWEEN THE DEMONS AND THE DEMIGODS, DEVASURA-YUDDHA. THAT IS ALWAYS THERE. IN THE EUROPEAN HISTORY, WITHOUT REVOLUTION, NO ORDER CHANGES. EVEN THE RUSSIAN REVOLUTION WAS THERE. FRENCH REVOLUTION WAS THERE. IN ENGLAND, CROMWELL? CROMWELL? CROMWELL REVOLUTION? 

Nara-narayana: Yes. 

Prabhupada: YES. SO WITHOUT REVOLUTION, (INDISTINCT), YOU CANNOT CHANGE OLD ORDER. "OLD ORDERS CHANGES GIVING PLACE TO NEW." THAT OLD ORDER CHANGES... EVERYWHERE IT IS BY VIOLENCE. THE MAHABHARATA ALSO, THE BATTLE OF KURUKSETRA. KRSNA WAS THERE. HE TRIED TO SETTLE UP. BUT IT WAS NOT SETTLED WITHOUT VIOLENCE. PARITRANAYA... WHAT IS THAT? VINASAYA CA DUSKRTAM. PARITRANAYA SADHUNAM VINASAYA CA DUSKRTAM. KRSNA ALSO COMES, VINASAYA CA DUSKRTAM, TO, FOR KILLING THE DEMONS. KRSNA ALSO COMES. 

Nalinikantha: (break) ...will be overthrown and replaced with God conscious beings. 

Prabhupada: No. I am not talking of any government. We are not in politics. We are talking of preaching. Why? Why this government should you try to change. Where is the better replacement? First of all find out the better replacement. Then you talk of changing. Where is the better replacement? To replace one rascal with another, that is not... 

Now democratic government, if the people become Krsna conscious, then naturally their leader will be Krsna conscious. So automatically it will change. There is no question of violence. What is the use? Now, suppose by violence you become the president of the United States. Will you be able to do something? 

Nalinikantha: No. 

Prabhupada: Then what is the use? Because under democratic government, your order is not final. So if the people are demons, then what you will do? You cannot do anything. Therefore the people's mentality, consciousness, should be changed by this Krsna consciousness movement. When they become God conscious, Krsna conscious, they will select Krsna conscious president. Then everything finished. Formerly people used to accept the king as the final authority, but at this present moment, that is not accepted. People must accept. Now it is people's government. So unless people are God conscious, you cannot find good government. In comparison to other governments, your government is far better. People here (are) not starving. 

Nalinikantha: Yes, I have seen. 

Prabhupada: Yes. In other governments the people are starving. They have no food. That is the worst government. First necessity of life, that one must eat, one must have shelter, but other governments cannot even do that. But in your country, you have got enough food, enough shelter, everything is there. That consideration, your government is very nice government. Bare necessities of life must be supplied. Here the fault is extravagancy. 

Nalinikantha: Too much. 

Prabhupada: Too much, yes. Luxury leads to poverty. Too much luxury. Now it will deteriorate. 

Nalinikantha: I was reading in one of the books you translated that you said that as more people become Krsna conscious, the mentality of all of the people in that area, they lose their desires for material enjoyment. 

Prabhupada: No. Material enjoyment, you enjoy, but not like cats and dogs. You enjoy material life like human being. That is our proposal. Not like cats and dogs. Is it not enjoyment when you sit down in the Deity room and chant Hare Krsna and read philosophy? It is not enjoyment?

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http://www.pranadacomtois.com/

[PADA: Pranada dasi was a follower of Satsvarupa Dasa Goswami who allegedly had an affair with him. Now she seems to be into all kinds of "new age - isms" and does not seem to have any photos of Krishna or Srila Prabhupada on her site. She is connected to a "women of bhakti" movie, which is being co-produced by -- Radhanatha swami? We heard that she was very sickly a few years ago, but has improved lately. We do at the same time -- wish her well.

Maybe her moving away from the bogus gurus and into new age-ism has helped her. In any case, just look at the results of the bogus GBC's guru process, people are reluctant to mention Krishna after some time, at all. Very sad state of affairs. Alachua of course has other famous Krishna drop outs like Harikesha, Jaggadisha and similar others, and some of these folks even speak ill of Srila Prabhupada and Krishna. Our conclusion is, these people never had a deep understanding of Krishna all along.

We would hereby like to give her CREDIT for making her 1990s NEWSLETTER "Priti lakshanam" -- which ALERTED us to the SUICIDES of EX-CHILDREN problem, and which SERVED as an IMPETUS for our GETTING a LAWSUIT going. She even allowed some of us to post comments there, which was very bold on her part, especially at the time. I hope she recovers from all this and advances towards Krishna, after her life was hijacked by these bogus guru clowns. ys pd]