Palaka / Rupanuga pt.2 10/23/12

PALAKA DASA: Pd you are such a bold face lier . Shame on you . We both know Rupanugas involvement towards Kirtanananda and Sulochana and we have hashed this out before with direct statements given by Rupanuga himself . And its you who resorts to your same old tired false accusations like Rupanuga is a fallen guru when be never once became a guru . And when you have been repeatedly asked personally by Rupanuga to remove these false statements posted on your camps web site you twist the truth to serve your stance . It's so obvious u simple cant stand that Rupanuga far exceeds you on every level thus you hound him. Give it a rest !

PADA: Rupanuga was a member of the 1986 reformers and he was a liason between Sulochana and the GBC. I was there when Sulochana called Rupanuga, remember? Say what you like, I was listening in on the phone booth when Sulochana called many times. Sulochana also tape recorded many of these calls and he let me listen later. You also promoted Rocana right here and now, and he is the leader of saying Srila Prabhupada is the post mortem / post samadhi / posthumous person, and you refer others to him AS OF NOW. We have you on record doing that. There is nothing either tired or worn out here or not, its called relating the factual history, its what Rupanuga did when Sulochana called him for help, he worked with the reformers. And its what you are doing now by promoting Rocana. I am not grinding axes here, I am stating what occured historically. You also forgot to answer if the books are the source of divyam jnanam which destroys sins aka diksha. I have not harped on Rupanuga being a guru, but he was at one time in their guru voting system http://pratyatosa.com/GBCRES/GBCRES1986.htm And on March 29th when Rupanuga was getting set up to be a guru, we were being threatened with death and I was being chased with baseball bats. Rupanuga had no authority to back these people who are hunting us like dogs. Even if I am a dog, no one has the authority to hunt and kill me, its not authorized. ys pd
@1986: GBC RESOLUTIONS 1986pratyatosa.com
‎1. Removing a GBC . 2. Removing a guru. 3. Amending laws of ISKCON and st
anding orders of the GBC. 4. Adding new GBC members. All other proposals will require a simple majority of voting members present.

PALAKA DASA: Pd again you are totally off with regards to Rupanuga . For the record although the reformers did indeed sanction Rupanuga to be allowed to become an ISKCON guru , he never took them up on their offer . Why ? Because he studies Srila Prabhupadas book and actually feels he is not qualified . Unlike so many of the others who jumped at the chance only to fail miserably. Srila Prabhupada has stated with regards to Rupanuga " at least he's honest ".

As GBC who's duty it was to investigate Sulochana complaints , He actually sided with Sulochana and stood up to Kirtanananda which only infuriated him all the more . As a matter of fact , he even warned Sulochana that Kirtanananda and his followers were fantastical and a very possible threat . Sulochana responded by bragging that he always was armed . Remember during that dark Period in iskcons history the the gurus held majority on the GBC . In the end Rupanuga resigned his GBC post because they were encourageable . You paint Rupanuga to be one of the good old boys , but he is just the opposite. 

PADA: OK lets just stick to answer the main question first of all which you keep avoiding for some reason: Rupanuga says Srila Prabhupada stopped giving diksha, but we are making thousands of new people his direct disciples (including at our temple here in Sunnyvale) based on their getting pure divyam jnanam which destroys sins aka diksha, from his books. Why is Rupanuga saying the books are not giving this diksha anymore, when we are making new people every day based on these books? And how can we say these people are not getting pure divyam jnanam which destroys sins, when many of our people follow the principles better than most of the GBC gurus follow? Does this not prove our people are getting the divyam jnanam, which destroys sins? Or are you saying this is all illusion, they are chanting for nothing at all? What is your point here, I do not get it? And then you tell us you are with post mortem pada Rochana? Why are you with post mortem pada? ys pd

PALAKA DASA: The books are indeed giving direct association http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/03-10/editorials5893.htm but its not diksha it's siksa. Pretty plain and simple . So just because you have followers in and of itself doesn't really count . http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/03-09/editorials4187.htm

The Sampradaya Sun - Independent Vaisnava News - Editorial Stories - March 2010www.harekrsna.com

PADA: So when we say the books give pure divyam jnanam which destroys sins, you say that is not diksha? That means you never understood what is diksha? Again I repeat, our people are getting pure divyam jnan and their sins are reducing, that is called diksha. Are you saying this is not happening? Well it is! Siksha can come from any mixed devotee, even the pot washer, and so the CC says there can be many shiksha gurus, but the diksha guru is one. And pure divyam jnanam / diksha can only come from a pure devotee. Who is your pure devotee who is giving diksha now? And why are you attacking the books by saying they are not capable of giving people pure jnanam, when our people are making so much advancement on this principle? If the books are not giving these people pure divyam jnanam which destroys sins, why are they making so much nice advancement, more than the GBC gurus even? Are you saying that their spiritual advancement is illusion? This is atheism. Which might be related to your supporting that the acharyas are post mortem. Our Sunnyvale devotees came up here for the Rathayatra, they are nice bright faced devotees, you say they are not getting the pure divyam jnanam and having their sins destroyed, but they are, we see it practically. If they are not getting diksha from the books, where are they getting it from? And how come you never answer this point for the past 35 years? 

Incidently Rocana says there is always a living diksha guru when he met me in LA, so I said lets go meet your living diksha guru, and he became angry ever since. Face it. He has no current living diksha guru, he is bluffing, and I am surprised you are citing such a bluffer. Where is his current living diksha guru? He has none, and you are citing this bluffer?

PALAKA DASA: Pd your logic is wrapped . Yes I took Diksa when Srila Prabhupada actually accepted me as his initiated disciple . He actually accepted me . It was a mutual agreement . I didnt force myself upon him and expect he was obliged to accept me . I asked and he accepted . But who is asking Srila Prabhupada if he actually wants to accept these new disciples ? Have you actually consulted with him to see that he agrees to your plan or since that how the Christians do it you've simply adopted their methods ?

Gaura Prabhu - yes but still someone has to actually approach Srila Prabhupada and ask him if he agrees to not only accept the aspiring disciple but also ALL HIS KARMA as well. Is it fair to force all those sins upon Srila Prabhupada without his permission . Just because that's how the Christians claim its done cannot automatically mean that's how Srila Prabhupada mission works . If it was then in all the years he labored to write his law books for the next ten thousand years he certainly would have spelled that out so there'd be no confusion .

PADA: Dear Palaka, OK so now we are making progress, you are saying that the people who read Srila Prabhupada's books, accept him as their guru, and are crying tears of joy chanting Hare Krishna, and who are doing fabulous and opulent deity worship in Bangalore, Sunnyvale, Long Island, Taiwan, Fiji, Singapore, Ukraine, Russia, New Zealand and so on, and they are doing harinama and book printing, they are ignorant foolish slobs who are forcing themselves upon Srila Prabhupada and Krishna? They are fools who are in illusion, Srila Prabhupada is not accepting them, they are not connected? Except, they follow better than the GBC folks do? So they are doing all this for show, there is no substance?

So that means you are attacking Srila Prabhupada's new devotees as fools for -- accepting Srila Prabhupada as their guru? No wonder you people have no temples, no programs, no devotees, no nothing, you are saying that preaching about Srila Prabhupada is post mortem nothingness.

And we needed to be here when he was here, or else we cannot connect with him, and after he is apparently gone its all post mortem. So you have a dead link in the Chaitanya tree which produces nothingness, whereas we just had a huge festival in Ukraine with hundreds of devotees and all kinds of harinama, books, kirtananas and so on, and you have nothing at all to show for your posthumous ideas?

To say the guru is posthumous does not make him posthumous, it makes you posthumous. And you are criticizing that the books have no value because Srila Prabhuapda is not present to accept people, except you forgot his whole principle, he is here -- he lives forever in his books. And that is what he said right here in Berkeley, I will live forever in my books, so the readers can accept him and he can accept them.

So he is here to accept these people, and that is why you have nothing to show for your 35 years of posthumous pooja idea, its dead on arrival. Worse, Rupanuga supported that the foolish GBC are going to accept karma, when they cannot accept their own karma, and they are failing all the time? Anyway you finally admit de facto, you have no diksha guru, as we asked Rocana, you have no diksha source, so you are rudderless. ys pd