Female Diksha Gurus issue pt. 2 (Ajamila letter)

Responses to Ajamila das on Female Diksha Guru Issue
BY: SUN STAFF Oct 28, 2012 — CANADA (SUN) —

Text PAMHO:24267486 (112 lines)
From: Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN)
Date: 28-Oct-12 12:21 (17:51 +0530)
To: ISKCON India (news & discussion)
To: ISKCON Prabhupada Disciples


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Home Base: ISKCON Baroda
Dear Readers,
Namonamaha. Jaya Srila Prabhupada!

Since Ajamila Prabhu has taken it upon himself to employ slander and character assassination as techniques for winning the debate on the question of female diksha guru, by doing so, he's disqualifying himself from the debate. For that he owes an apology to Shyamasundara Prabhu and myself.

He ought to have stuck to ideology and solid argument in this regard. It is sad that he seems to have "gone ballistic" instead of maintaining a "cool head". By his writings it seems that he's declaring himself "the all knowing God", instead of understanding that he, like we, are "tiny jivas"! The SAC presented their paper on the topic of FDGs, and they felt it wise not to include such weak examples (as Ajamila Prabhu has presesnted) to support the FDG concept.

[PADA: Notice that Bhasu Ghosha and his SAC "Shastric Adivsory Committee" are the "shastric advisors" of the GBC's gurus. Which previous acharyas needed to be advised by a committee? That means Basu Ghosha thinks he is superior to the acharyas because -- he is their advisor? There are simply no examples from shastra of any of our acharyas needing to be steered and directed by a Governing Body committee?]

BG: The ISKCON India Regional Governing body (IRGB) passed a resolution in 2010, response to the GBC resolution 305 of 2009, calling for suspension of the said resolution, and for continued discussion on the topic of FDGs.

[PADA: A "continuation of the discussion" about making women gurus, which was not resolved in the past 30 years? If you did not know if women are supposed to be gurus (or not) in the first place, how can you make women into gurus now? How come Basu Ghosha thinks the GBC makes / creates gurus by a "2/3 show of hands vote" at all? How is that Srila Prabhupada's shastra says Krishna makes (empowers) the gurus "acharyam mam vijnaniyam," but now Bhasu Ghosha says this is wrong, Basu Ghosha claims he is the person making gurus, and not Krishna?] 

BG: The resolution of the IRGB challenged the GBC resolution (and not Rochana Das of the Sampradaya Sun website) and answered the GBC resolution in a respectful and thorough way. Therefore, I'm sending across the IRGB resolution mentioned herein above, for the knowledge and reference of all readers of this text. The IRGB resolution is being taken very seriously by several GBC members and is being formally submitted as a GBC proposal by Bhakti Purushottam Swami (belatedly).

To learn more about the erstwhile GHQ, which was a group of devotees who were -- and still are -- concerned about the cultural and moral direction being taken in ISKCON, read the article "notes from a think tank" that extensively answered the charges that Ajamila Prabhu has decided is the best way to "win the debate" on FDG, 13 years ago, at the following place on the internet (URL): http://www.vnn.org/editorials/ET9902/ET21-3119.html

[PADA: Oh boy, here we go again, a think tank that produces gurus?]

Also note that Ajamila Prabhu's close friend Goloka Chandra Prabhu from Malaysia was also a member of the GHQ! ;-) Here are some more questions for Ajamila Prabhu and other proponents of female diksha guru:

1. Did Srila Prabhupada want to establish Daivai Varnashrama in ISKCON or not?

[PADA: Varnsrama Dharma is for organizing a society, whereas the GBC process of making acharyas and messiahs by a system of "2/3 show of hands GBC votes" is not part of any bona fide process?] 

2. If yes then women must follow dVAD program.
3. Are brahmacaris in ISKCON expected to follow brahmacari dharma?
4. Are grhastas in ISKCON expected to follow grhasta dharma?
5. Are sannyasis in ISKCON expected to follow sannyasi dharma?
6. If answer is "yes" then why women in ISKCON not expected to follow Stri Dharma?
7. If answer is "No" why is it if a sannyasi in ISKCON doesn't follow sannyasa dharma he has to give up his position, etc., as in recent case of Prabhavisnu Prabhu.

[PADA: Prabhavishnu swami has not been advertised as "a sannyasa in varnasrama"? Rather he has been advertised as a self-realized parampara acharya. Now the GBC says it is common for such acharyas to fall down, but that is not what shastra says, shastra says it is forbidden to consider acharyas as ordinary fallen men?] 

BG: The GBC had, during 2008, passed a resolution calling for "annotations and footnotes in Srila Prabhupada's books". Action that is still supported by Hridayananda Maharaj, for example. After a public outcry from many devotees, headed by Nrsimhananda Prabhu, a petition on the internet that I was closely associated with, and rejection of the resolution by the BBT and Jayadvaita Maharaj, the resolution was rescinded by further resolution during 2009.

[PADA: OK, but why is the GBC allowing its acharyas to speculate that we need to annotate (re-write) the books in the first place? Why are not those who want to change the books removed from posts of authority?]

BG: The GBC resolution 305 of 2009 calling for FDGs, similarly was passed without proper consideration and ought to be rescinded as well. 

[PADA: OK you folks are voting in all kinds of bogus things all the time, as well as voting for bogus gurus without consideration, and now you are making female guru resolutions without consideration, why not study these issues before you make all these resolutions?] 

BG: The issue of FDG is very serious -- one that will effect the future of ISKCON for long. The cursory view of the subject that is being presented by Ajamila Prabhu and Kaunteya Prabhu does NOT do justice to the issue. ISKCON is in serious threat of going the way of the sahajiya apa-sampradyas if we do not seriously consider the objections to FDG that are being raised in reference to numerous instructions given by Prabhupada clearly in this regard.

Hope this meets you all well. das,
Basu Ghosh Das

---------- Forwarded Message ----------
Letter PAMHO:24266059 (252 lines) [M1]
From: Ajamila (das) ACBSP (Goloka Books - UK)
Date: 28-Oct-12 02:39 (10:39 +0800)
Bcc: ISKCON India (news & discussion) [9848]
Bcc: ISKCON Prabhupada Disciples [1831]
Bcc: Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN) [151964]
Subject: Rocan's REPRESSION of SP's spiritual daughters sastricaly exposed
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Dear Devotees, pamho agtsp. Hare Krishna!

The GBC had, according to sastric verification, passed a resolution in 2009 that any qualified female devotee can become a diksha guru in ISKCON. This was very much welcomed by almost all the ISKCON devotees worldwide.

[PADA: No the "female guru by GBC voting process" was not welcomed, rather it was pointed out that most of the men who have ALREADY been voted in as gurus by this process have failed. So this is another set up for more failed gurus, albeit those in a female body.]

However, a very vocal small group of devotees who named themselves GHQ (military term for general head quarters), headed by Shyamasundar Dasa, who claims to be an astrolger, have for many years been very heavily scorning any qualified woman in ISKCON who would even think of becoming a diksha guru.
(Text PAMHO:24267486) --------------------------------------

Letter PAMHO:24266816 (322 lines) [M1]
From: Internet: "William G. Benedict"
Date: 28-Oct-12 08:50 (01:50 -0700)
To: Ajamila (das) ACBSP (Goloka Books - UK) [33239] (received: 28-Oct-12 09:29)
Bcc: Basu Ghosh (das) ACBSP (Baroda - IN) [151992]
Reference: Text PAMHO:24266059 by Ajamila (das) ACBSP (Goloka Books - UK)
Attached: 24266816.eml (40813 bytes) "Original email file"
Subject: Re: Rocan's REPRESSION of SP's spiritual daughters sastricaly exposed
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My Dear Ajamila,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All Glories to His Divine Grace Srla Prabhupada! Param Vijayate Sri Krishna Samkirtan! It seems that you are being irrational and illogical in your approach to the subject of female diksha gurus. If you study the subject with a level head -- instead of writing as if you are God's only messenger on Earth -- a present day Jesus, Lord Chaitanya or Avatar of the absolute -- you might be able to begin to understand the subject matter here.

When Prabhupada wrote: "Suniti, however, being a woman, and specifically his mother, could not become Dhruva Maharaja's diksha-guru." in his purport to SBj 4.12.32, what do you think he meant by the words "being a woman" and then "could not be Dhruva Maharaj's diksha guru"?

[PADA: Bhakta dasa is a Gaudiya Matha follower. He told us we need to follow people like BV Puri Maharaja. And now the Gaudiya Matha's folks are advising the GBC? And Bhakta dasa compares the GBC's illicit sex guru's program to Suniti, the mother of Dhruva? Why is this fool allowed to speak at all? What does Suniti have to do with Bhakta and his illicit sex acharyas programs? Bhakta dasa's gurus are most of the time found engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children, and then he says this is just like Suniti being the guru of Dhruva? This is the most offensive writing we have seen in a long time, which is why the GBC allows this fool on their forums and we are banned, because we will defend Suniti.]

BD: I find the "evidence" of one conversation, when compared with the entire body of Srila Prabhupada's books, lectures, and other conversations to be flimsy. Prabhupada always talked about women being protected and never independent. Did he not? Whereas a Brahman must be always independent, otherwise he cannot maintain truthfulness, the principle of being a Brahmin. To give Gayatra and Sacred thread, it is not the position of women in society. Where is the historic example of this?

[PADA: The Gaudiya Matha mada homosexuals into gurus, and so has the GBC, so the historical parallels are, they both made deviants into their gurus.] 

Gangamata Goswami, is a very unique case in history, and the wife of Lord Nitayananda apparently did not give diksha at all, although she was a leader of the Vaisnavas. But was she even JIVA TATTVA? I have read that she displayed four armed forms at times and is actually shakti tattva? This is an important issue, and rarely to I feel strongly on issues, but this for me is important, more than the other guru issues we have been over in the past.

I hope you may reconsider you strong views.
Pray you are well.
Your servant,
Bhakta dasa (ACBSP)
https://www.facebook.com/Bhakta.dasa
www.aromaxthai.com

[PADA: What does the wife of Nityananda have to do with Bhakta and his illicit sex messiah program?]

________________________________

From: Ajamila (das) ACBSP (Goloka Books - UK)

To:
Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2012 9:39 AM
Subject: Rocan's REPRESSION of SP's spiritual daughters sastricaly exposed
Dear Devotees, pamho agtsp. Hare Krishna!

The GBC had, according to sastric verification, passed a resolution in 2009 that any qualified female devotee can become a diksha guru in ISKCON. This was very much welcomed by almost all the ISKCON devotees worldwide.

[PADA: No, it was viewed as more rubber stamped conditioned souls posing as acharyas?]

However, a very vocal small group of devotees who named themselves GHQ (military term for general head quarters), headed by Shyamasundar Dasa, who claims to be an astrolger, have for many years been very heavily scorning any qualified woman in ISKCON who would even think of becoming a diksha guru.

Recently Rocan dasa (hiding behind a phantom name of Krishna Devi Dasi) wrote and circulated a paper campaigning for the 2009 GBC Resolution to allow female diksha gurus to be WITHDRAWN. This demand is of course in total ignorance of Srila Prabhupada's crystal clear instructions provided herein below that he definitely 100% wanted his qualified spiritual daughters to initiate disciples.

Rocan dasa, the head of the nonSUNce Sampradaya website, criticises ISKCON and the GBC at every chance making it his goal of life. Both Rocana and Shyamasundara's GHQ Group vociferously object that such highly qualified women should always keep quiet and stay out of sight, and just stick to Stree Dharma, in a way that is not too much different from how the Taliban treat even young 13 year old women who want an education. Such loud mouthed devotees have extensively campaigned to repress the immense wealth of our qualified ISKCON women, and as a result such highly advanced spiritual daughters of Srila Prabhupada have suffered such intimidating phsycological repression for many, many years and so we have lost the benefits of their full preaching potential.

[PADA: Rubber stamping of gurus, whether male or female, hurts the preaching. In any case, women have been suppressed by the ISKCON leaders who have meanwhile been promoting the worship of illicit sex, so adding women to this program does not help. We need to GET RID of the people who have been suppressing the women FIRST of all.]

But this is clearly not what Srila Prabhupada did or wanted. Check the uncompromising evidence below for yourself. Herein you are presented with overwhelming irrefutable evidence that Srila Prabhupada wanted his beloved spiritual daughters to initiate disciples. He certainly did not want them to be trashed in Talaban fashion as is the case with an unfortunate small group of devotees who are absolutely BENT upon repressing any qualified female devotee from becoming a diksha guru, even to the extent of defying Srila Prabhupada's explicit instructions not to do so.

[PADA: Where did Srila Prabhupada instruct anyone to become a diksha guru?]

Srila Prabhupada's emphasis was on QUALIFICATION not GENDER, see the 100% proof of that below.

[PADA: And the GBC says gurus engage in illicit sex with men, women and children, how is this the qualification of gurus?]

Below is but some of the most significant evidence:

===================================

Toronto, June 18, 1976
Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram --
Prof. O'Connell: Is it possible, Swamiji, for a woman to be a guru in the line of disciplic succession?
Prabhupada: Yes. Jahnava devi was-Nityananda's wife.
Prabhupada: In our material world, is it any prohibition that woman cannot become professor? If she is qualified, she can become professor. What is the wrong there? She must be qualified. That is the position. So similarly, if the woman understands Krsna consciousness perfectly, she can become guru.

[PADA: So when a woman joins the GBC and agrees that acharyas are engaged in illicit sex, then she is qualified to be a guru herself?]

==================================

Srila Prabhupada clearly states that QUALIFICATION is the determining factor, not GENDER. It is crystal clear.

Letter to Hamsaduta on Jan 3, 1969:
"I want that all of my spiritual sons and daughters will inherit this title of Bhaktivedanta, so that the family transcendental diploma will continue through the generations. Those possessing the title of Bhaktivedanta will be allowed to initiate disciples. Maybe by 1975, all of my disciples will be allowed to initiate and increase the numbers of the generations. That is my program."

[PADA: And after 1977 the GBC kicked out all of the disciples and they said only eleven are going to be gurus? But this letter says all the disciples, whereas the GBC says only eleven?] 

Srila Prabhupada says ALL my disciples, EVERYONE should become spiritual master. He never ever excluded the women except when referring to ancient Stree Dharma which he subsequently overrided as verified herein.

[PADA: But your process does not allow all the disciples to preach, only those few eleven and those voted in by the eleven are allowed facility. Others are banned, beat and even assassinated if they are not within the elite group.]

Prabhupadanugas program a success

Dean Balarama: Hare Krsna dear devotees, pamho agt Srila Prabhupada. A huge pranam thank you to Gaurangasundar prabhu who was the key to making all this happen, AGT you prabhu. Another huge pranam thank you to the host devotees for taking the burden of accommodating all of us nice so nicely and facilitating the wonderful Temple programs we had "INCREASING THE SPIRITUAL CONTENT OF OUR LIVES' and last but by no means least, a MEGA HUGE thank you to the devotees who made it such a wonderful uplifting, inspiring Prabhupada conscious experience. And a special jayaaa to the Vaisnava BLUES BROTHERS who made us laugh through out the festival. AGT Srila Prabhupada and AGT all his sincere followers :) Hariiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiibol :) Already there is some talk of having a world wide Prabhupadanuga festival possibly in Vrindavan 1 month before gaurapurnim follwed by the next European festival in Germany around April or May :) Yummmiiii Yummmiiiii :) looking forward to more kirtans upon Kirtans with you all real soon, let never stop the ball rolling from now on :) :)

Women gurus issue in ISKCON

discussion thread between Visnupriya Devi Dasi and Citralekha Devi Dasi, forwarded from PAMHO forum.

Dear Visnupriya Mataji,

Please accpet my humble obeisances all glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Please accept my apologies in advance if anything I say may be offensive. Writing via email is not the best way to communicate.

Hare Krsna Prabhu, Point well taken but does “Unless a woman has advanced beyond the sadhana stages, she should not accept disciples” apply to men as well? Why not?

You should read

http://www.oneiskcon.com/2012/10/a-reply-to-the-gbc-action-order-305-2009-part-two/

also

http://www.oneiskcon.com/2012/10/a-reply-to-the-gbc-action-order-305-2009-part-three/

it is all clearly explained why not.

I have been thinking about this and have some points to make. Please accept my apology, I am not trying to offend or challenge any one. I am stating this mainly in reference to the article that is published in Sun.

1. The basic point Prabhupada taught us is that “we are not this body” if we understand and accept that, then where is the question of men or women?

The problem is that though we may know it in theory because of countless life times in material world we have not realized it yet. Just look at your own situation. Since you are not your body but still you need a home, clothing, food, to shelter your body. But if you are not your body why do you endeavor for these things? Because we have not come to level of realizing it. You are not alone, I also have not realized it. And in ISKCON many women fall down with men. So they are not realizing they are not the body either. We are not our bodies but we do have bodies.

[PADA: Right, simply theoretical idea "I am not this body" does not mean either someone, or anyone, has realized this as a fact within ISKCON. That there is a big fight going on over whether or not ISKCON should be making women into diksha gurus means, the entire argument is based on the bodily platform. If a person is realized, they will be recognized as such by their self effulgence, whether male or female body. "Making gurus" is also a bogus idea: Krishna "makes" the gurus by empowering them Himself, they are not "made" by the votes of the GBC?] 

 2. Prabhupada told us to respect all women as our own mothers. So what’s wrong in giving her the authority and respect her by making her a guru?

When your son is grown up he may respect you as mother but you must be controlled by him, you don’t have independence. Not that all your life your son accepts your authority in all matters. Who has told you like that?

[PADA: Oh great, we are going to have women gurus, but they will not have independence and they will be controlled by other people -- like her sons? This is not the idea of guru, the guru is independent in all cases because he / she is getting direct dictation from Krishna, not from the son, the relatives, the GBC panel of guru monitors etc. This is all mundane idea of guru.] 

3. Male ISKCON gurus have failed the society and betrayed the world with their attachment for sex and women.

So you want to give us women who are 9x more lusty to have equal opportunity to fail? (-: Are you implying that we women have no attraction to men and sex? (-: 

[PADA: Excellent point, why are we going to start making a group of women gurus -- when the so-called men gurus have already failed so miserably, and continue to fail on a regular basis? Why not first of all get a grip on what a guru is before making a pile more of them, whether male or female?] 

4. Facts have it that women make better leaders. Women are more tolerant and willing to sacrifice for a good cause. Even prescapilion (sp) church has female priests.

Who has told you those lies? It is feminist mythology. Because women were not given power you didn’t know what problems they could do. But here in India under Indira Gandhi she did so many problems. She is the cause of the culture of corruption in this country. Before her there was idealism but under her corruption became endemic. Sastri the previous PM was saintly and friendly to Srila Prabhupada, he died under mysterious circumstances, and she came into power and down India went. Now so many women leaders in India, all of them just as corrupt if not more corrupt than the men. Mayawati in UP is among the worst. She has not only stolen untold amount of money but erected hundreds even thousands of statues of herself all over her state. Did you know that? So the more power and position women get the more you will see just how corrupt and evil they can be. They just never had the chance to do. But now you want to give them the chance and for all of us to suffer. Once you let the genie out of the bottle it will be hard to put her back in.

[PADA: Have to agree here, making a bunch of women gurus is "letting (more) of the (bogus guru) genie out of the bottle." The bogus ISKCON GBC has not been able to contain and control their so-called "men gurus" and the multitude of problems that deviated out cropping created already. In sum, making more bogus brain surgeons will not change the fact that the first wave of bogus GBC guru brain surgeons killed many patients.]

5. By nature men are the enjoyers and women’s nature is to serve. She will make a better leader.

Who told you that? Actually she makes a better follower. And, sastras, if you believe in them say the opposite, that women should never be leaders.

6. Men’s ego refuses to have his superior as a leader especially if it is a female. Most men prefer to have a follower who is weak and vulnerable. Major problem in ISKCON

Why would men want to follow a woman? It is against their nature, which is to dominate. You want to go against nature? No woman respects a man that she can dominate. 

[PADA: And what does any of this have to do with the post of guru? Men will not accept a woman as an authority? That means these folks are basing their whole guru platform on bodily idea and not on realization idea. Thousands of people in India and USA accept Mother Amma as their guru (not saying she is realized) but she is accepted as a guru by many men. Its a question of someone having the purity to preach, then they will be accepted on that basis, not on bodily basis.]   

7. Women have been suppressed for centuries, it’s time for change.

Who is controlling the material world? Durga devi she is arranging for all of these things under the order of Krsna. You don’t have to wait long. In your next life you can be born a male and see how nice it is. So we women should all think “what did we do to deserve to take a female body?” If we think it is suffering, then just think that if we make political agitation and somehow arrange that now women shall dominate over men that we shall then be happy. But just consider that if it is our karma to be dominated then in next life we will be born as men and complain that women are dominating us. So these type of material solution will always fail. The real need is for spiritual solution, to leave this material world. But you are welcome to stay in this world and agitate politically so that you can be in position of dominance. I don’t see that the so-called dominant men are that happy, but you are free to try. Like we all have for millions of lifetimes to be happy in this world.

[PADA: Right, Durga is a woman and she is respected by all the demigods. Its not a question of being male or female, its a question of purity or lack thereof.]

Of course in India they are not going to accept a female Diksa guru …. look at the Iskcon temples in India. Have you ever seen a female pujari on altar in big temples? Women can’t even stand in front to take darshan. But yet India was ruled by Indira Gandhi a female. Even Bhutto tried to run for her backward country.

[PADA: Well this is true, women in ISKCON as a group are being suppressed and not being allowed to take more prominent roles, have to agree with that.] 

That is because in those temples they follow pancaratrika agama. If you don’t want to follow sastra then that is another thing. Indira was the worst thing that ever happened to India. One Indian author wrote a modern day version of Mahabharata, for Duryodhana he had Indira Gandhi. She had all the Babajis in Braja sterilized. She built oil refinery in Mathura to poison the Yamuna, she shipped millions of cows to Russia to pay for arms. We could go on. She was also shot dead. That is what happens to women who want to pretend they are men, they get treated like men–no mercy. Feminists want all privileges of men but don’t want the responsibility.

[PADA: Maybe so, but hundreds of millions of men supported Indira Gandhi and her policies in India? How could she have been able to do all this without popular support?] 

 8. Wanting a female guru has nothing to do with the western influence or women activist. We are all influenced by the western world like it or not. Look around how many female devotees go to work to earn money while their husbands stay home to take care of the babies or do household stuff. This is kali yuga.

I’m looking and not seeing many, in fact none at all. My husband works to support me and my family. ISKCON is meant to be bulkwork against Kali yuga, not help Kali yuga to finish the job. But if you are too weak to help fight against kali yuga then you should not undermine those who are trying to keep up the fight. Whose side are you on anyway? Kali’s?

9. Time we practice what we preach. We go to the prison to help the criminals but can’t even have harmony between male female devotes or devotees in general.

There are only two kinds of people in this world: male and female. If they can’t get along society falls apart. Varnashrama Dharma, which Srila Prabhupada and the acarya’s very much wanted shows us how men and women should interact and get along. Modern life creates animosity between men and women. Do you think that by following western cultural norms there will be better interactions between men and women? In the western countries they have the worst, it is almost warfare between the sexes, all because of feminism. In any case it is obvious that this agitation for Female gurus is not bringing harmony but strife. If ISKCON does bring in Female Diksha gurus our family will leave ISKCON and continue to preach the mission of Srila Prabhupada and the acaryas which ISKCON will have deviated from.

[PADA: What? The GBC says gurus are engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children, and that's all fine, but if they make women gurus, people are going to leave? Why not leave when they say debauchees are the messiahs?]

10. We deviate ourselves from Mahaprabhu’s real goal when we make these mundane subject matters important.

How is that related to women being leaders? Mahaprabhu would have nothing to do with women. This makes no sense.

11. We have to follow Prabhupada 100%; we don’t just pick and choose what works and what doesn’t just try to proof a point. S.P told us a lot of things. We either follow or if we are in between then we need to go and do our own thing.

So it sounds like you want to do your own thing, because in Prabhupada’s books it is very clear that he wanted women like us to stay in the home and take care of our family.

[PADA: If a woman is pure, she can preach accordingly, and do whatever she has to do for her preaching, because a pure person is getting dictation from Krishna.]  

12. it’s time for change. Women need a women leaders to share their problems and issues with. With men leader in charge the weak and vulnerable women are used for their own agenda. This then makes the woman look bad and she is blamed for her behavior.

 I don’t agree, we should stick to eternal principles and not be deviated by modern-isms of unstable societies. We have to learn how to apply Vedic principals. As for women leaders, they are the worst. So much envy and fighting between women way more than between men. You seem to believe the feminist mythology that all men are demons and all women are saints. But in my experience of 41 years as a woman and 22 of them in ISKCON is that almost all, in fact now that I think about it actually all of my problems came from other women. I could share plenty of horror stories about the so-called “devotee” women. Lying, stealing (when we joined TP’s wife took all our expensive antique furniture, said we didn’t need it, she would sell it and give to Krsna. Then after few years when we became poor after giving everything we had to temple and I was living in mataji ashram, she had me come to her home to be her house keeper. And what did I find in her beautiful expensive flat? All of our antiques that she kept for herself.) Verbal and physical abuse and plenty of psychological abuse. I could go on. After several years living in ashrama with women I never wanted to live with women again and was so happy when I got married.

[PADA: Right, so since the ISKCON society is still full of exploiting like this, why not fix that before we make the exploiters into gurus?]

13. Women have served Prabhupada selflessly and made lots of sacrifices. i.e distributing books, sending their children to gurukula while they continue to serve. It’s time we recognize that and reward them accordingly. There is definitely a need for a female Diksa guru.

So is this why we serve Krsna? To get some material recognition and reward. And if we don’t get it then what? I thought we served because it was pleasing to Lord Krsna and that if Lord Krsna is pleased then in our hearts we will feel bliss and happiness with no need of anything else. I guess someone is not getting any spiritual bliss in their heart. Why is that? Offenses? Material desires and attachments? Watering the weeds instead of the creeper?

Yours in the service of the devotees

Citralekha dd

Hare Krsna

Ys,

Vinsupriya dd

[PADA: The so-called men gurus are falling down, and they have made a scandal out of the post of guru, so the solution is -- to make more gurus? This is not the solution, the solution is to first of all establish what a guru is. ys pd]

Enema pada is still being worshipped

PADA: Right prabhu, Satsvarupa has been doing and writing insane things for years now: “A Life Of Prayer” where he was banging his head on the floor; SDG’s Journals where he was discussing the gopis saris … and a few paragraphs later, his enemas and constipation program; SDG’s whacked paintings; SDG’s writing “I am the guru of (psychotropic) drugs,” and a real winner “I have to battle constantly with the idea Krishna is a myth,” and so on, and yet the entire GBC still promotes him and his books all over ISKCON. Yes, even enema pada is glorious for these people. ys pd

Bangalore temple live cam

http://www.iskconbangalore.org/live-darshan

Book changes issue discussed here

http://www.prabhupadanugas.eu/?p=30143

More compromises to get Hindu's dollars

http://prabhupadavision.com/2012/10/spiritual-hussy/

Letting foxes in hen house (Rupanuga update)

PADA: Yes prabhu, you got it, the whole idea that Srila Prabhupada is not the diksha guru came from folks like Sridhara Maharaja and others in the Gaudiya Matha. Very ironic that Rupanuga prabhu was SPECIFICALLY deputed by Srila Prabhupada to check this bogus idea from entering  ISKCON, in short "I am counting on you Rupanga to be my guard at the ISKCON hen house, do not let in the Gaudiya Matha foxes to eat all my hens," and now Rupanuga is -- repeating the slogans of the foxes? ys pd   

Happy cow escapes from slaughterhouse

http://youtu.be/p_vi_c6E534

Srila Prabhupada is the guru by Sean prabhu

Locanandanda prabhu,
Hare Krishna.

Thanks for your response. You are saying that we should not be making this distinction, between who is the diksa guru and who is a siksa guru, that it is not important and not to label them, and that Prabhupada did not speak much about siksa and diksa. Why then is it important to label the new initiates as “grand disciples” ? What is the necessity of making this official distinction ? If these persons are simply conducting the initiation ceremonies “on behalf of Srila Prabhupada” as you say, and are not to receive worship, then what is the necessity of labeling the new initiates as their disciples and Prabhupadas grand disciples ? Is this not supporting a root cause of many of the problems of ISKCON which you speak of, by perpetuating this sense of distinction, that encourages these people to think that they have some ownership and lordship over the those devotees who are initiated ? And which encourages these people to expect special honor or worship and all the entitlements of having their own disciples ? Does it not encourage this elitist type of thinking that “I am a Prabhupada disciple”, I am special ?

Actually, Prabhupada uses the terms siksa and diksa many times throughout his books and teachings, wheres, the term grand disciple he used how many times, once ?

You agree that only Srila Prabhupada is to be worshiped, but yet you say that new initiates are not his disciples. As quoted before, Lord Krishna states ” “Our next spiritual master is he who initiates us into transcendental knowledge, and he is to be worshiped as much as I am.” So by insisting that these people are the one’s giving initiation, and by saying that the initiated disciples are their own, you are supporting the idea that these people should receive special honor and worship, position, recognition, etc. You are distinguishing between who is a “Prabhupada disciple” and who is not, and this seems to perpetuate the core issue of ISKCON’s problems.

As shown, initiation is not simply a ceremony, but more importantly, the transmission of transcendental knowledge. And that is being primarily received from Srila Prabhupada through his vani. How are these people actually “giving diksa” if their purpose is for the most part to simply conduct the ceremony ? If I undergo a ceremony with one of these persons, and then maybe correspond with that person a few times, or maybe not at all, while all the time the main source of knowledge and instruction is coming from Srila Prabhupada, and my worship is directed to Prabhupada, then what makes me that other person’s disciple ? Simply because they have conducted the ceremony ? Prabhupada says the ceremony is not very important, not even completely necessary. Yet you are placing so much emphasis on the ceremony.

The argument that devotees who support the ritvik system only accept Prabhupada, and give no importance to anyone else, is not true. Someone may think like that, but that is not how it is meant to work. Other instructing gurus still have their importance and necessity, but it is Prabhupada who is the primary spiritual master, the only one who is worshiped by everyone, and whose vani is the main source of instruction. The person who conducts the ceremony may be giving instructions, and therefore a devotee may be his disciple in the sense of a siksa relationship, but the devotees primary spiritual master would be Prabhupada. As pointed out, Prabhupada says “Actually, you have only one Spiritual Master, who initiates you, just as you have only one father” (Nov 20, 1971 Letter to Sri Galim). So this one person whom Prabhupada refers to here, would be himself. How could you say he is not the one ? If you say he is not the initiator, then you are saying it is not him, but someone else who is a devotees primary guru and object of worship. This is misdirecting the focus of devotees to people other than Prabhupada and is lessening the importance of Prabhupada in their spiritual lives. Is that not a disservice ?

You have stated: “Neither did Srila Prabhupada ever say he would continue to initiate ISKCON devotees when he would no longer be physically present. In fact, as I have been pointing out, he said exactly the opposite.” Please quote where exactly did Prabhupada say such a thing. From what I understand, Prabhupada indicated that his books would remain for many generations to come. In this way the generations could continue to be initated by him through the transmission of transcendental knowledge.

Also you have stated “Maybe Bhakta Hugh would like to confirm that while Srila Prabhupada was initiating disciples in ISKCON, he was simultaneously initiating disciples on another planet or in another galaxy as part of nitya-lila, his eternal pastime.” Such a thing no one could know for certain except by revelation, but you are saying that the idea is absurd, how is that ? A mahabhagavata is not limited like that, he can expand his presence and exist simultaneously in different places. As Lord Krishna can expand, so can a pure devotee to the extent that he is empowered by the Lord. It is not beyond the realm of possibilty. The idea that he cannot is putting limitation on the pure devotee and degree to which Lord Krishna can empower him. Why put limitations on the pure devotee who is supposed to be empowered by the Lord to do anything that is necessary to deliver the conditioned souls ?

Again as pointed out, Prabhupada mentioned “grand disciples” and “his disciple”, but later said “when I order”. After that, where was that order ever actually given ? And how will Prabhupada’s final written will be obeyed where he says that only “my iniitated disciple” can manage ISKCON properties ? Please answer these questions.

It would be wonderful if all the senior devotees could rather encourage the world to develop faith in being Prabhupada’s disciple and in this way all can develop the faith that they are connected directly to a spirital master who is for certain, without question, a first class pure devotee who will never fall down, and who can for certain take us back home to Godhead. By encouraging that everyone cannot be his disciple, but rather must be a disciple of persons who are voted in, and who are regularly prone to fall downs, this is undermining the success of this movement and encouraging a sense of false worship, position, recognition, and all the problems that come along. Please help us to develop our faith that Prabhupada is our saviour, that he is our worshipable spiritual master and that we are all his family of disciples connected to him directly. Please do not support that which encourages cheating and the breakdown of faith in the process of Krishna Consciousness.
Please, let’s not let being a Prabhupada disciple be a form of elitism which encourages the false egos of a limited group of people, but let us encourage that Prabhupada’s shelter is open to the whole world now and for future generations.

Thank you kindly,
Bhakta Sean

Rupanuga's muddled position on guru

Rupanuga prabhu: Soon after his disappearance in 1936, Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur's disciples became embroiled in endless controversies, disputes and schisms. His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada was to say in a lecture on October 22, 1972 in Vrindavan:

"We have got practical experience how a great institution was lost, by whimsical ways. Without carrying out the orders of the spiritual master, they manufactured something and the whole thing was lost."

PD: Fine, except Rupanuga prabhu never really tells us: What deviation was manufactured? What was the main topic of "dispute" within the Gaudiya Matha? Srila Prabhupada identifies ONE MAIN pillar issue as the source of all these disputes: i.e. that the Gaudiya Matha started making false diksha gurus, and all these other problems have been rooted in this one problem. Rupanuga only mentions that there is some unspecified, generic "problem," but he never clearly identifies the Gaudiya Matha's bogus guru idea as the main problem that was injected into ISKCON, nor does he clearly mention any detailed solution?

Rupanuga keeps telling us that the Gaudiya Matha folks "did not follow the orders" of their guru Srila Saraswati. What order is he talking about? Rupanuga never says? What order was violated? Why not tell us the "order" was: To make a Governing Body, having the mission's members acting as preachers, agents or at best priests / ritviks, and not as bogus gurus? That was the order they violated, but Rupanuga never explains this clearly, or at all. The "order" was, to make an administrative body whose purpose would be: To continue that worship of the diksha guru / acharya. And that is the order that was violated.

Rupanuga has apparently never even understood what the root problem was all this time because he never identifies and explains it, nor does he give the proper solution?

Our post-1977 ISKCON GBC had the same identical orders from HDG: You can ONLY be my preachers, agents or ritviks, do not attempt to be gurus. That is the specific order the deviants violated, but Rupanuga only says they violated some generic order, he never explains, what order? And this is what other GBC apologists like Bhakti Caru say, the Gaudiya Matha violated the order. What order? We need to be specific, otherwise we will never solve the problem if we do not identify what it is.

Srila Prabhupada identifies "false gurus" as the central issue that has caused the fracturing of the Gaudiya Matha mission. Srila Prabhupada says this over and over, that the Gaudiya Matha made false gurus, and these bogus gurus rejected the idea of having a cohesive Governing Body which would continue the worship of the factual guru and acharya.

And after 1977, our bogus ISKCON leaders followed that same deviated Gaudiya Matha idea and they did the same thing, they made false gurus. Why doesn't Rupanuga ever explain this clearly? And since Rupanuga has been deputed by Srila Prabhupada to be the gate keeper to stop these false guru out croppings in ISKCON, and he had been specifically deputed by Srila Prabhupada to stop consultations with deviants like Sridhara Maharaja, why did he not do that? And why does he never explain why he did not do that?

This begs the question, why didn't Rupanuga report all these Gaudiya Matha deviations being duplicated in ISKCON way back in 1978, when the GBC made false "appointed" gurus? And then the bogus GBC declared Sridhara Maharaja is ISKCON's "Higher Authority" in their 1978 annual report position paper? Why didn't Rupanuga become alarmed, how can there be a "Higher Authority" than Srila Prabhupada? And how did Sridhara Maharaja become the alleged Higher Authority than Srila Prabhupada? And why didn't Rupanuga say, Srila Prabhupada wanted me to ring the alarm bells when Sridhara Maharaja was consulted, because he has been identified as a deviant, and he should not be consulted at all?

And in 1980 when the GBC combined with Sridhara Maharaja to make their bogus position paper "The Mahajanas Have difficulties," why didn't Rupanuga publicly challenge this offensive document and say, Sridhara Maharaja's idea that the mahajanas and the acharyas fall down is an extreme offense? Instead Rupanuga went along with all these deviations without any protest, rather he was acting as their cheer leader and he was trying to get a seat in their bogus assembly?

PADA's editor has been reading Rupanuga's writings for years, and years, and years now, and he never, ever, discusses the main topic mentioned by Srila Prabhupada which caused the "disputes" in the Gaudiya Matha -- and ISKCON, which is, that the members of the mission were only ordered to be agents or at best ritviks and NOT GURUS.

And instead they made false diksha gurus and they declared the acharya Srila Prabhupada as only a siksha guru. And they said that they are the "appointed" diksha gurus. Incidently, Rupanuga himself still agrees with these bogus GBC and Gaudiya Matha deviants that Srila Prabhupada is only a shiksha guru? Rupanuga mentions that the Gaudiya Matha folks objected to the title of Srila Prabhupada, and yet Rupanuga is apparently also joining them by objecting to HDG's title as the diksha guru? Why is Rupanuga joining this pack of deviants who all say HDG is only a shiksha guru? And why has he never explained why he joined with them on all these deviations?

Srila Prabhupada: Your so-called disciple, the jackal named Ananta Vasudeva, disobeyed your final instructions to keep the mission united, and thereby created a scandalous fiasco. The result of this philosophical deviation is evident to this day as imitative sahajiyas are being worshiped as gurus in your temples. (verse 2)

The final instruction is that we in ISKCON should ONLY act as preachers, agents, at best priests, and we should not act as gurus. Rupanuga never explains any of this, to this day? Why? Nor does he say that Srila Prabhupada is the current diksha guru of ISKCON, rather Rupanuga sides with the bogus GBC gurus and Gaudiya Matha folks that HDG is only a shiksha guru, which is what the deviants also say? And he never explains any of this in the past 35 years? So what order was violated, the order that the acharya will continue to be the diksha guru, and Rupanuga is one of the people who is violating that order by saying the acharyas are only shiskah gurus, which means he is a parrot of the deviants. ys pd

Rocana/ Palaka/ Rupanuga/ contradictions

PADA: Palaka has been twisting things here all along. 

(A) Palaka says we need to read Rocana and his DOR, and yet Rocana is the number one promoter of the Gaudiya Matha folks and their bogus living guru ideology. Why is Palaka promoting the Gaudiya Matha's promoters? And Rocana is the promoter of people who insulted Prabhupada like the Madhava maharaja program. Why is Palaka promoting the insulters of Prabhupada? And Palaka says we need to hear from these offensive people? 

Rocana is just like Palaka, he also has no temples, no devotees, no programs, so we need to follow them and have a big fat nothing program? Rocana also advertises for the people who are spending $15m suing us, so Palaka says he is not for this lawsuit program, but he is for promoting the people who are defending these lawsuits folks? 

(B) Palaka says Srila Prabhupada is only the shiksha guru, when Srila Prabhupada said he is the diksha guru and the GBC are the siksa gurus. Palaka is defying the direct statements of Srila Prabhupada. Where does Srila Prabhupada say he is only going to be the shiksha guru of ISKCON? He never did, this is another lie from Palaka. 

(C) Palaka says Srila Prabhupada's vani can give full pure divyam jnanam which destroys sins (diksha), but then he says, no, this is bogus -- HDG's divyam jnanam is not sufficient to give diksha? He is minimizing the acharyas. Rupanuga says we should all pray to get a diksha guru, find but as soon as our people get one, Palaka says they are bogus Christians. And we could go on here, but the point is, Palaka does not even agree with himself, he contradicts himself here, over and over, never mind he also countermands Srila Prabhupada. ys pd

Sunnyvale program Sat Oct 27, 2012

Rocana is the mortician of ISKCON?

PADA: No twisting and shouting here. We are making many new disciples of Srila Prabhupada. You and your pal Rocana say this is bogus because you have concocted a slew of bogus gate keepers, hoops, traps, ecclessiastical processes etc. so that people cannot become his disciples. Catholic Church ex Cathedra rules? And you are attacking our new disciples as bogus Christians because you are envious that they have found a bona fide guru under our Prabhupadanuga banner.

You want to block their progress, and have them adopt your process, i.e. no new disciples, no new temples, no new nothing. Dead on the vine. And you are quoting Rocana, the post mortem pada of ISKCON. Post mortem pada is your hero, because he has no new nothing, he is the mortician of ISKCON. Rocana's program also has no new disciples, no programs, no temples, no harinamas, no nothing at all.

Yes, we had to wait for 20 minutes to get darshan at our temple, whereas there is no waiting at yours and Rocana's temples because you have none and you never will, your only function is to harass those of us who are making new disciples and new temples. You are never going to accomplish what we are doing because you are simply trying to act as gate keepers to stop our people from being disciples of HDG. You are like the Vatican's College of Cardinal gate keepers against people worshiping the pure devotee.

Thus all of Srila Prabhupada's programs are dying out under your plan, whether varnasrama farms, book distribution, temples, everything has decreased under your plan because as soon as someone reads the book and accepts Prabhupada as their guru, you jump in their faces and tell them they are bogus Christians and you chase them out of ISKCON. So now you have emptied the boat, and that is why there has been a Haitian Disco and now a Bingo Hall at Schemerhorn temple, your program is running out of money, men, everything. Its post mortem. ys pd

Palaka / Rupanuga / pt. 3 "rudderless"

Thanks, I think I got Palaka's idea already: (A) We must distribute Srila Prabhupada's books because then, (B) People will naturally be attracted to Srila Prabhupada as their guru, and they will accept him as their guru, (C) Except according to Palaka dasa, anyone who reads the books and becomes inspired to accept Srila Prabhupada as their guru is "like a Christian who is part of the Catholic Church." 

And those of us promoting Srila Prabhupada as the guru are also bogus Catholic Church types. Fine except (D) Rupanuga's GBC pals are voting in gurus, like the Vatican votes for the Pope? 

I think people like Palaka are the number one reason people are not distributing and reading the books, because after they read, then Palaka types tell them to forget all about having Srila Prabhupada as their guru, its a waste of time to worship him because -- if they accept him as their guru they are bogus Catholic Church. No wonder you folks have no temples, no devotees, no programs, no nada, because you are countermanding and arguing with yourself! You cannot distribute the books of a guru, and then tell the people who read the books they cannot accept the guru who wrote the books -- as their guru? You are arguing with your own shadow, no wonder nobody hears about your program, its rudderless. ys pd

Palaka / Rupanuga pt.2 10/23/12

PALAKA DASA: Pd you are such a bold face lier . Shame on you . We both know Rupanugas involvement towards Kirtanananda and Sulochana and we have hashed this out before with direct statements given by Rupanuga himself . And its you who resorts to your same old tired false accusations like Rupanuga is a fallen guru when be never once became a guru . And when you have been repeatedly asked personally by Rupanuga to remove these false statements posted on your camps web site you twist the truth to serve your stance . It's so obvious u simple cant stand that Rupanuga far exceeds you on every level thus you hound him. Give it a rest !

PADA: Rupanuga was a member of the 1986 reformers and he was a liason between Sulochana and the GBC. I was there when Sulochana called Rupanuga, remember? Say what you like, I was listening in on the phone booth when Sulochana called many times. Sulochana also tape recorded many of these calls and he let me listen later. You also promoted Rocana right here and now, and he is the leader of saying Srila Prabhupada is the post mortem / post samadhi / posthumous person, and you refer others to him AS OF NOW. We have you on record doing that. There is nothing either tired or worn out here or not, its called relating the factual history, its what Rupanuga did when Sulochana called him for help, he worked with the reformers. And its what you are doing now by promoting Rocana. I am not grinding axes here, I am stating what occured historically. You also forgot to answer if the books are the source of divyam jnanam which destroys sins aka diksha. I have not harped on Rupanuga being a guru, but he was at one time in their guru voting system http://pratyatosa.com/GBCRES/GBCRES1986.htm And on March 29th when Rupanuga was getting set up to be a guru, we were being threatened with death and I was being chased with baseball bats. Rupanuga had no authority to back these people who are hunting us like dogs. Even if I am a dog, no one has the authority to hunt and kill me, its not authorized. ys pd
@1986: GBC RESOLUTIONS 1986pratyatosa.com
‎1. Removing a GBC . 2. Removing a guru. 3. Amending laws of ISKCON and st
anding orders of the GBC. 4. Adding new GBC members. All other proposals will require a simple majority of voting members present.

PALAKA DASA: Pd again you are totally off with regards to Rupanuga . For the record although the reformers did indeed sanction Rupanuga to be allowed to become an ISKCON guru , he never took them up on their offer . Why ? Because he studies Srila Prabhupadas book and actually feels he is not qualified . Unlike so many of the others who jumped at the chance only to fail miserably. Srila Prabhupada has stated with regards to Rupanuga " at least he's honest ".

As GBC who's duty it was to investigate Sulochana complaints , He actually sided with Sulochana and stood up to Kirtanananda which only infuriated him all the more . As a matter of fact , he even warned Sulochana that Kirtanananda and his followers were fantastical and a very possible threat . Sulochana responded by bragging that he always was armed . Remember during that dark Period in iskcons history the the gurus held majority on the GBC . In the end Rupanuga resigned his GBC post because they were encourageable . You paint Rupanuga to be one of the good old boys , but he is just the opposite. 

PADA: OK lets just stick to answer the main question first of all which you keep avoiding for some reason: Rupanuga says Srila Prabhupada stopped giving diksha, but we are making thousands of new people his direct disciples (including at our temple here in Sunnyvale) based on their getting pure divyam jnanam which destroys sins aka diksha, from his books. Why is Rupanuga saying the books are not giving this diksha anymore, when we are making new people every day based on these books? And how can we say these people are not getting pure divyam jnanam which destroys sins, when many of our people follow the principles better than most of the GBC gurus follow? Does this not prove our people are getting the divyam jnanam, which destroys sins? Or are you saying this is all illusion, they are chanting for nothing at all? What is your point here, I do not get it? And then you tell us you are with post mortem pada Rochana? Why are you with post mortem pada? ys pd

PALAKA DASA: The books are indeed giving direct association http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/03-10/editorials5893.htm but its not diksha it's siksa. Pretty plain and simple . So just because you have followers in and of itself doesn't really count . http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/03-09/editorials4187.htm

The Sampradaya Sun - Independent Vaisnava News - Editorial Stories - March 2010www.harekrsna.com

PADA: So when we say the books give pure divyam jnanam which destroys sins, you say that is not diksha? That means you never understood what is diksha? Again I repeat, our people are getting pure divyam jnan and their sins are reducing, that is called diksha. Are you saying this is not happening? Well it is! Siksha can come from any mixed devotee, even the pot washer, and so the CC says there can be many shiksha gurus, but the diksha guru is one. And pure divyam jnanam / diksha can only come from a pure devotee. Who is your pure devotee who is giving diksha now? And why are you attacking the books by saying they are not capable of giving people pure jnanam, when our people are making so much advancement on this principle? If the books are not giving these people pure divyam jnanam which destroys sins, why are they making so much nice advancement, more than the GBC gurus even? Are you saying that their spiritual advancement is illusion? This is atheism. Which might be related to your supporting that the acharyas are post mortem. Our Sunnyvale devotees came up here for the Rathayatra, they are nice bright faced devotees, you say they are not getting the pure divyam jnanam and having their sins destroyed, but they are, we see it practically. If they are not getting diksha from the books, where are they getting it from? And how come you never answer this point for the past 35 years? 

Incidently Rocana says there is always a living diksha guru when he met me in LA, so I said lets go meet your living diksha guru, and he became angry ever since. Face it. He has no current living diksha guru, he is bluffing, and I am surprised you are citing such a bluffer. Where is his current living diksha guru? He has none, and you are citing this bluffer?

PALAKA DASA: Pd your logic is wrapped . Yes I took Diksa when Srila Prabhupada actually accepted me as his initiated disciple . He actually accepted me . It was a mutual agreement . I didnt force myself upon him and expect he was obliged to accept me . I asked and he accepted . But who is asking Srila Prabhupada if he actually wants to accept these new disciples ? Have you actually consulted with him to see that he agrees to your plan or since that how the Christians do it you've simply adopted their methods ?

Gaura Prabhu - yes but still someone has to actually approach Srila Prabhupada and ask him if he agrees to not only accept the aspiring disciple but also ALL HIS KARMA as well. Is it fair to force all those sins upon Srila Prabhupada without his permission . Just because that's how the Christians claim its done cannot automatically mean that's how Srila Prabhupada mission works . If it was then in all the years he labored to write his law books for the next ten thousand years he certainly would have spelled that out so there'd be no confusion .

PADA: Dear Palaka, OK so now we are making progress, you are saying that the people who read Srila Prabhupada's books, accept him as their guru, and are crying tears of joy chanting Hare Krishna, and who are doing fabulous and opulent deity worship in Bangalore, Sunnyvale, Long Island, Taiwan, Fiji, Singapore, Ukraine, Russia, New Zealand and so on, and they are doing harinama and book printing, they are ignorant foolish slobs who are forcing themselves upon Srila Prabhupada and Krishna? They are fools who are in illusion, Srila Prabhupada is not accepting them, they are not connected? Except, they follow better than the GBC folks do? So they are doing all this for show, there is no substance?

So that means you are attacking Srila Prabhupada's new devotees as fools for -- accepting Srila Prabhupada as their guru? No wonder you people have no temples, no programs, no devotees, no nothing, you are saying that preaching about Srila Prabhupada is post mortem nothingness.

And we needed to be here when he was here, or else we cannot connect with him, and after he is apparently gone its all post mortem. So you have a dead link in the Chaitanya tree which produces nothingness, whereas we just had a huge festival in Ukraine with hundreds of devotees and all kinds of harinama, books, kirtananas and so on, and you have nothing at all to show for your posthumous ideas?

To say the guru is posthumous does not make him posthumous, it makes you posthumous. And you are criticizing that the books have no value because Srila Prabhuapda is not present to accept people, except you forgot his whole principle, he is here -- he lives forever in his books. And that is what he said right here in Berkeley, I will live forever in my books, so the readers can accept him and he can accept them.

So he is here to accept these people, and that is why you have nothing to show for your 35 years of posthumous pooja idea, its dead on arrival. Worse, Rupanuga supported that the foolish GBC are going to accept karma, when they cannot accept their own karma, and they are failing all the time? Anyway you finally admit de facto, you have no diksha guru, as we asked Rocana, you have no diksha source, so you are rudderless. ys pd

Rupanuga / Palaka / Rocana /etc. 10/22/12

WORM: Puranjana, why don't you read this nice article by Rupanuga prabhu? Can you find any fault in it? Then why harp on character assassination of someone who is writing so nicely to protect Prabhupada's books.

PADA: I have read all of Rupanuga's writings and moreover had personal dealings with him in 1985-6. He was a member of the 1986 "guru reform" committee. I asked him then and ask him now, what is a reformed guru? Why is he still saying the books are not giving diksha, which is what he said since 1977, and so on, and he never answered? I am not character assassinating anyone, these are points of siddhanta i.e. there is no such thing as a guru reform and the books are still giving divyam jnanam which destroys sins aka diksha, this has nothing to do with personalities, these are points of siddhanta. The problem here is simple, even Bhakti Caru speaks just like Rupanuga's article here SOME OF THE TIME, but then he writes another countermanding article, as does Rupanuga. ys pd

CHANDRA DASA: I read the whole letter good valid points.

PADA: Agreed Rupanuga's one letter is good, but we must remember its written the context of Rupanuga's many other writings and statements, which I have asked about for 30 years, and not got a proper reply, ever. ys pd

CHANDRA DASA: perhaps a new start ,hm give peace a chance,a change of heart,a ilttle softeness.

PALAKA DASA: Pd Prabhu sorry your phone conversation with Rupanuga Prabhu wasn't recorded for all to hear . Personally I think you just have an axe to grind with the entirely wrong devotee .

PADA: I am at peace with everything, I am simply saying siddhanta is either properly based or its not. This is about siddhanta. I am not grinding any axes, these are points of siddhanta (a) there was never any such thing as a 50 man guru reform committee before 1986, (b) there is no substance the claim that the books are not able to give divyam jnanam which destroys sins, which means Srila Prabhupada is still the diksha guru. We just had our 20 centers in Russia and 4 in Ukraine meetings, they have Srila Prabhupada as their diksha guru, Rupanuga says they do not, well he is wrong thats all.

So when Rupanuga says we are not making new diksha disciples of Sria Prabhupada, he is just out of touch with the real preaching that is going on, we are making thousands of them all over the world. So this is really an issue of siddhanta. (A) We are saying Srila Prabhupada is the current diksha guru, and we are thus making thousands of new disciples ON THAT PLATFORM OF SIDDHANTA for him. Whereas (B) Rupanuga says Srila Prabhupada is not giving diksha.

PALAKA DASA: Oh so now sheer mathematics mitigates all else . Have you studied this yet ?http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/guru-tattva/dor/dor-index.htm

PADA: So this is rather amazing, our brand new disciples of Srila Prabhupada have more faith in him than his "originals" like Rupanuga and so on. Our new people are preaching about the glories of their diksha guru Srila Prabhupada, and Palaka is trying to stop them, that means Palaka is against Srila Prabhupada being their diksha guru. Good thing our people avoid the faithless. As for Rocana, he is always posting things about the Gaudiya Matha / Mayesvara, and we all know that Rupangua was persoanlly told to make sure this Gaudiya Matha living guru out cropping would not occur in his ISKCON. He failed to make sure that would not occur. Rocana also says that Srila Prabhupada is the posthumous / post samadhi guru, this is very offensive for starters, why is Palaka citing this man? 

Palaka has also failed to explain why our thousands of people are enlivened while Rocana has no followers, no temples, no preaching, no books, no nothing at all, why is nothing better than our something? This sounds like sunnyavada, nothingness is better than something? We have a nice temple in Sunnyvale and they had so many people there on Janmastmi we had to wait 45 minutes to get through the line to see the deity, Rocana has no temple, no darshan, nada, and Palaka thinks Rocana's nothingness program is better than our program of Prabhupada pooja? ys pd

Prabhupadanugas Turkey

http://harekrishnaturkey.wordpress.com/

Russia and Ukraine Prabhupadanuga meeting

http://prabhupadanugas.blogspot.com/2012/10/russian-and-ukrainian-prabhupadanugas.html

Driving in India story

PADA: This story indicates how badly India has fallen from their roots in the Vedic culture. And their attempt to "Westernize" has simply created a chaotic and problematic society, where it is very hard to develop spiritual consciousness. 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/10/20/the-perils-of-driving-in-india-one-man-s-quest-for-a-driver-s-license.html

Locanananda on guru and initiations

http://theharekrishnamovement.wordpress.com/2012/02/12/initiation-protocols-2/

Sweet kirtana here

http://youtu.be/DoEdFmmKaIo

Tanumadhya dasa pic

Superior attachment is required

Book changes web site

http://bookchanges.com/

Srila Prabhupada conversations site

http://krishnakatha.com/

Aindra Kirtanas can be downloaded here

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=a5b19b4d4a14977b&id=A5B19B4D4A14977B%217164

Brooklyn ISKCON evicting Bingo Hall?

ISKCON is evicting their Bingo Hall?

GBC is adopting ritvik system

http://www.iskconirm.com/docs/webpages/btp35_ISKCON_GBCs_Ritvik_Parampara.html

There will be men who will pose as guru

Bhavananda: There will be men, I know. There will be men who want to try and pose themselves as guru.

Tamala Krishna: That was going on many years ago. Your God brothers were thinking like that. Madhava Maharaja…

Bhavananda: Oh, yes. Oh, ready to jump.

Prabhupada: Very strong management required and vigilant observation. (background whispering, Tamala Krishna and Bhavananda) So you are foreign…

Converstion with Srila Prabhupada May 27th 1977.

SATTVIC DASA: This is May 27th the day before Srila Prabhupada discussed the officiating Acharyas (ritvik). Bhavananda clearly stated that there will be men who will try and pose themselves as guru. If Srila Prabhupada wanted them to be guru why did he say "very strong management requires and vigilant observation." 

To do what? Count the birds in the sky? No. Vigilance in preventing any ambitious fools to take the post of guru without the express order of His Divine Grace. What more proof do you need to understand that the whole GBC guru system is rotten at the root? Bhavananda went on sitting on the vyasasana even though in 1976 was caught red handed in Mayapur engaging in homosexual acts with a worker in the goshala. Srila Prabhupada knew this and ordered Bhavananda to go on the boat to preach in Bengal and to follow the caturmasya vrata to atone for his sins. Who is that sane man that will believe that all of a sudden a year later he becomes the next link in the disciplic succession? Are we a bunch of lunatics or are we serious in the acceptance of the transcendental process of Krishna consciousness? Give me a break.

VIDURA SCOTT: Bhavananda had some nerve to try to warn of false guru's!

WILLIAM IRVING MOREHOUSE: These eternal ... vapuvadis have no shame.