ISKCON's Hrdayananda Das Goswami Laments "Cyber Vigilantes"

[NOTE: Cyber vigilantes are just getting started, hee hee. ys pd] 

S. Dasi: Hridayananda Dasa Goswami Thank you for sharing your thoughts on “internet vigilantes.” What are your thoughts on a guru who abuses his power to groom and molest a child over the course of a week? And then uses that power, position and prestige to deflect and minimize the responsibility for his choices and actions?

https://www.facebook.com/hridayanandadasgoswami/posts/249624130310159

PRD: Unfortunately Hridayananda Goswami is a known child abuser supporter.

NJD: And insufferable arguer.

MED: Very true!

KD: https://www.facebook.com/100057877216282/posts/249624130310159/

AGD: I think Maharaj was clear that a fair trial is what he supports. He says so in the article.

[PADA: A fair trial for God's messiah successors? A successor to God should not be on trial for sexual predator behavior in the first place.]

SD: He also mentions the BG 9.30 verse which is often misquoted and abused to "chant away sins." So, he's asking for a fair trial, then concluding how the trial should end, or be judged.

AGD: I do not read it that way. I think he’s saying without a fair trial we can never reach a conclusion other than BG 9.30 and appropriate punishment will never be determined, but devotee cancel culture will in the mean time ruin lives without a fair trial.

[PADA: So when Hrdayananda's guru program bans, beats, molests, sues, and assassinates people, we should forgive that process? And thus perpetuate that process, as has happened?]

HRD: You're giving too much credit to him. A brahminical discussion presupposes the existence of brahmanas (or at least people who behave like brahmanas). The most important brahminical quality, especially in the age of Kali, is truthfulness. The behavior of most GBC members doesn't speak favorably in that regard. 

For instance, the cover-ups, the lies, the deceit, place most of them in a different varna altogether. So in a sense, he's correct, we cannot have a brahminical discussion. However, the reason is not the "internet vigilantes" but the deceitful GBC members.

S Dasi: We are only asking that this never-resolved child abuse be handled by the ICPO. The GBC even promised this on May 12th then secretly took it away 5 days later. Why? Regarding cancel culture, child abuse is an insidious form of cancel culture. 

AGD: I think Maharaj is basically explaining why GBC members do not engage in such online forums, and he cites a personal example from his own history. Therefore, Maharaja is basically saying that this is the ground floor of debate and nothing much will happen if the GBC is not willing to counter “devotee cancel culture” with real engagement. 

It’s a Catch-22. And as long as we are stuck in such a dilemma, BG 9.30 is all we can rely upon, but applying this verse is always controversial and we never find 100% consensus among devotees, generally, in how it should be applied.

Personally, I am not familiar with the allegations of misrepresentations of truth that you are referring to, per se, apart from the highly contentious “poison question” regarding Srila Prabhupada’s disappearance lila.

My guess is that my previous analysis holds true. The GBC would rather be criticized for not submitting the case to the ICPO than for having the ICPO whitewash it. Maybe they will eventually explain themselves.

S Dasi: The ICPO has never handled the case.

AGD: I was abused as a kid. I don’t see that the term cancel culture applies to the abuse itself. Other terms for sure, but cancel culture in my mind is about dialog in a Public forum and how it is used to destroy the lives of people who hold ‘wrong moral views’.

S Dasi: Do you really believe the GBC doesn’t have the power to whitewash the ICPO’s handling of the case if they were to receive it? Not with Kamlesh Krishna and Gandharvika at the helm. Why do you think the GBC is so reluctant to give them the case?

AGD: I feel like Maharaja is also pointing out how effective vigilantes can be. I agree with Maharaja that vigilante justice is likely to be the only satisfying Avenue of resolution to those devotees who do not want to be victims of the somewhat perversely neutral debates of managing authorities who have larger organizational considerations to attend to.

[PADA: Cyber vigilantes is what to expect when the GBC promotes deviations, then oppresses those who complain. The oppressed folks best outlet is to become a cyber vigilante, as is happening more and more.]

AGD: I prefer to think that they have decided to be criticized for this rather than suffer the outcome of the investigations. Which means they could be hiding something.

S Dasi: Hiding something? The GBC? Never! 

ASM: I read it as, internet vigilantes destroy brahminical debate ... in other words stop destroying our ISKCON and let us have a fair trial. He forgets this case was up for a fair trial for nothing less than 30 whole years ... and they allowed the time to silently hide it ... all the while allowing innocent people be misguided. 30 years, and now they don't want these children of Krishna to say anything?

HRD: Precisely. Their deceit destroys the possibility of any serious debate, brahminical or not.

AGD: Well, he wrote his essay in a generic way. He is revealing a perspective that shows why it’s such an uphill climb now. Frankly, I think his also goading the vigilantes by pointing out that their cancel culture is effective sometimes, but terrorism is really the only effective means of dealing with these situations, due to BG 9.30 and how people disagree on how to apply it.

[PADA: BG 9:30 does not apply to sexual predators posing as acharyas. It applies to neophytes who will fail along the way, and we should be forgiving to the humble devotee in practice, not forgiving to the artificial rubber stamp acharya.]

ASM: Well. Honestly he lost me when he mentioned the other trial he was involved with. He said there was no fair trial and the life of one devotee who was ruined. He sided with that devotee, when he should have said -- the lives of her many many victims were ruined. I would love to live in a religious society where leaders side and advocate for the society's children first.

AGD: I don’t know the details of that case at all. He apparently believes that a fair trial would have been the right course of action, and in a civilized society how can that not be the case. However, if the punishment doesn’t fit the crime, then vigilante justice is the only way.

ASM: If you follow him (I have -- as I was once his disciple), you would notice his classist tendency. Here he clearly is referring to it again, those who are brahmans hold the debate ... let the non brahmans (he has said many times in the past sudra-Americans) quietly accept the fair trial.

[PADA: Hee hee, yup his society of the worship of illicit sex with men, women and children acharyas is the braminical path. Who believes that rubbish?]

ASM: There was a trial, CPO found a guilty party. Hrdayananda tried to reverse the CPO's guidance and sentencing calling for lack of a fair trial as some believed the evidence was faulty (some questioned the girls who were interviewed and called them liars). Anyways he did write several times saying he was for a fair trial and that he wasn't taking sides. Here, he clearly sided with the abusive devotee whose life was ruined, and not the devoTEEs whose lives were ruined in their childhood years by that person.

AGD: Thanks for the extra context. I am not defending Maharaj. I am only analyzing his words to extract what he is revealing. You have rightly pointed out that he is did not address the victims in any way, which seems to indicate that he and other GBC members see the victims as receiving the fruits if their past life karma in this life, which is a highly unpalatable perspective.

[PADA: Yep, same thing Narayan Maharaja said. Sure, I kicked jack boots on anyone who did not accept the GBC gurus and Tamal. So I supported the pedophile messiahs in Texas etc, but hey, the victims just go their karma! So who gives a crap about the victims, they got what they deserve! Is that their idea of a fair trial?] 

CH: You all know what happened in the Mahabharata with those who didn't stand up for Draupadi at the end of the dice game so I wouldn't be worried too much about these kind of "devotee's" punishment. The main focus should be in my opinion to be on the prevention of further issues.

HRD: #BeLikeVidura

Hridayananda Dasa Goswami ... a brahminical discussion presupposes the existence of brahmanas (or at least people who behave like brahmanas). The most important brahminical quality, especially in the age of Kali, is truthfulness. The behavior of most GBC members, including you, doesn't speak favorably in that regard. For instance, the cover-ups, the lies, the deceit, place most of you in a different varna altogether. So in a sense, you're correct, we cannot have a brahminical discussion. However, the reason is not the "internet vigilantes" but the deceitful GBC members.

CH: TBH I believe that compassion is the very basic of all also of truthfulness. Without compassion how can someone be truthful? 

PDD: What's that old saying -- actions speak louder than words -- and he is definitely one who speaks too much and doesn't show by his actions.

S Dasi: It would be helpful if just ONE ISKCON leader, just one, can stand up and say "yes, I will do everything I can to protect our children and enforce child protection policies, and this is how I will do it... "

HRD: The bar is too high. Half a leader would do. 

EBD: Why would they do that? That would risk their cushy opulent lifestyle, their front row seats at abhisekhs, the special feasts, servants, big cars, and accomodation etc etc.

KDM: Seems like a fancy way of telling us to be quiet. The assembly of "brahmins" have never demonstrated that they are willing to hear from us and respond to us like "brahmins." They can keep trying hard to be brahmins, while we just try to protect children like civilized people.

IID: I wrote the GBC. Child abuse is wrong. I also read Acharyadeva's article and it is fair and balanced. In it, His Grace says, "I have personally been viciously attacked because I insisted on a fair trial for a senior devotee accused of abuse. 

I repeatedly stated that I did not claim to know what the outcome of a fair trial would be, and thus I did not assert the guilt or innocence of the accused. Internet vigilantes loudly and widely declared my simple defense of universal principles of justice and due process to be a defense of abuse, and thus itself a form of abuse. 

ISKCON leaders, fearing such attacks on themselves, did not support a call for a fair trial, even after they were repeatedly shown massive evidence that fair process had been egregiously violated. Thus a devotee’s life was ruined without a fair trial. I have no intention of discouraging strong, robust debate on moral issues, such as punishment of devotee offenders. Rather I seek to defend the necessary cultural conditions for Vaiṣṇava debate to take place fairly." How is this unreasonable?

PDD: This is not unreasonable if it was done 50, 40, 30, 20,10 or even 5 years ago, time for talk is over, talk is cheap now, ZERO tolerance for child abuse, child abuser and for people who cover up and support it, CHILD ABUSE IS AND WILL ALWAYS BE VAISHNAVA APARADHA!

S Dasi: In 1997 the GBC RESOLVED:

"[LAW] 501. THAT the GBC Body hereby declares that the International Society for Krishna Consciousness does not condone abuse of any kind, especially that which is directed towards dependents such as women, children, aged and cows. Battery, verbal and emotional abuse are destructive to the devotional creeper and thus considered serious Vaisnava aparadhas. Any attempt to justify this type of abusive mentality on the basis of sastra is misconstrued and is firmly rejected by all practicing Vaisnavas." https://gbc.iskcon.org/1997

1997 – ISKCON GBC

GBC.ISKCON.ORG

1997 – ISKCON GBC

1997 – ISKCON GBC

· Reply · 11h

SF Dasi: Does anyone knows what is that all about : " ..>> " been egregiously violated. Thus a devotee’s life was ruined without a fair trial.

I have no intention of.... <<.Who is that "devotee " the poor innocent victims if unfair trial that he found necessary to mention.(Starting to think that the case that cause the essay is that alleged unfair trial.)And trials are done only by Government Institutions ,IIRC .

BWD: Point one. Abused Gurukulis and the abused children of Iskcon and its life members are not 'random' Internet vigilantes, out to take down Lord Chaitanya's movement. Point two. Gurukulis are advocating for a fair trial and investigation, which is the purpose of the ICPO. 

Point three. The GBC retracted their own decision on May 12th to have this handled by the ICPO, thus ending the possibility of a fair trial. And how many times have we seen the GBC's rulings not have any serious repercussions for abuse? Is it any wonder that the devotee diaspora are even more agitated and vociferous when the leaders do not follow the adjudication rules they set? 

And lastly what scripture are people basing their opinions on - that Vaishnava child abuse is not the most serious of all Vaishnava Aparadha and thus only forgivable by its victims. And just to reiterate the sparing of Ashvathama's life was actually much worse than killing him, as he will continue to roam till the end of Kali Yuga shunned by all.

ASM: Exactly!!

BDC: That first sentence exposes them all knowing full well what the subject is there is only one incident where a young Devotee was abused in our Scriptures and it culminated into a new avatar half man half lion the death and destruction of every one of his followers and eventual garland in his intestines around God's neck, what to speak of raped and molesting? 

These people are disgusting. Even lifelong prisoners who rape and murder know what the punishment should be for abusing children. If these guys went to prison, they would be the lowest of the whole group, and all the other prisoners would want to get justice for their victims. 

PADA: Wow. First we had Tamal sued in Dallas for several million dollars around 1987. Then the GBC folks told me, if there are any further problems, take us to court and sue us (again). Then we said fine, we will sue if that is the only option, and they were sued for $400,000,000. So clearly, they do not want to have "a discussion" -- or none of these court cases would have been required? Why would they say, we are not going to discuss, sue us, in the first place? Then, they declared bankrupted, because evidently they would rather be bankrupted than -- have a discussion? Then the GBC was upset when they sued Bangalore, and we helped their case with documents, and evidently that has cost both sides $20,000,000 each. Where is the debate and discussion going on? I must be missing something? Then the Jayapataka people wrote and told me I am a demon who has cost ISKCON $100,000,000 in lawsuits, but wait, you guys said you wanted to be in court? ys pd

ASM: It shouldn't have to take all of these legal battles for leaders to see their flaws... this is supposedly to be a religious society with highest moral standards... why are we even debating whether or not a leader should be accountable for his crime? So tired of their shameful attempts to hide their abusive standards.

TBD: The ping pong guru! I wanna play ping pong, can I join his sanga!?!? What a joke. Why aren't they least like Hansadutta (who they all talk so badly about), who least could figure out he was doing wrong, admit it, and say sorry? He never touched someone like that anyways either. All his "falldowns" weren't really like that afaik. He also says japa mala were given to India by the Cathoics.

TP Dasi: Funny. I saw Maharaj last week and he did NOT have Tulasi neck beads on.

SRD: Maharaj talks of "massive evidence that fair process had been egregiously violated". He doesn't consider the possibility that perhaps the leaders didn't share his opinion that the adjudication was flawed and didn't give the same weight to the said 'evidence'...

Instead of taking this opportunity to speak out in support of child protection, HDG positions himself as the victim and laments the hardships he has endured.

PTD: These ISKCON "gurus" should be ashamed of themselves. After 43 years, they haven't initiated even one famous person!

S Dasa: Another way of looking at it: the brahmanas, (the truthful, honest Vaishnavas/Vaishnavis) are trying to deal with child abusers correctly, but the ICC and GBC’s actions to block and bury appear vigilante with a thirst to lynch anyone speaking the truth 

R Dasi: He protected Lakshmimoni along with Brahmatirtha & Radhanath. Acaryadeva says he is pro protection of children, but that's Bull crap. He is a child abuser protector. FYI. Don't be fooled by his call for justice now.

https://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2015/12/hrdayanandas-krishna-west-vs-na-gbc.html

ICC ISKCON's Pedophile Guru's Vyasa Pooja

[NOTE: Lokanath swami says we should not be "ritvks" and worship pure devotees, rather we need to worship his illicit sex with men, women, and children guru lineage. And did we forget to mention his "guru lineage" also has drunks, drug addicts, porno swamis, self-advertised African princes, condom wearing, and maybe -- sex with cats? And then his program spends $20,000,000 suing the people who worship Prabhupada, to try to force them to worship pedophiles?] 

[PADA: First of all someone sent me a long "position paper" evidently written by a Lokanath fan, trying to poke holes in the testimony of Lokanath's victim Satya. OK she evidently mis-remembered certain elements of her story later on. 

For example she apparently changed using the term "my lap" to "my crotch" and so on. OK first of all, does anyone here accurately remember what happened to them when they were 11 years old? Something bad happened here, and that is for sure. Why would an 11 year old child be discussing sexual topics at all, from the get go?

Yep. Now we should attack the victim, conduct victim shaming, for some discrepancies in her account, but keep in mind -- she was only 11 at the time she was a victim? Meanwhile GBC folks account of this incident, and their accounts of numerous other incidents, has changed multiple times?  

Nothing new here. The GBC kept Jayatirtha on as a guru -- knowing he was having illicit sex and taking drugs, kept Bhavananda on -- despite his sex with taxi drivers problem, and so on and so forth. They keep deviants in the post of Krishna's guru successors over an over.

One lady just now told me she was saved from getting initiated by Prabhavishnu ex-swami, because he had said -- he is tired to taking "too much karma" from others. So he was suspending giving initiations. OK, what we said here numerous times, these guys are being advertised as equals to Jesus -- i.e. a person who can absorb sins. 

So Lokanath is a child abuser, and a person equal to Jesus? Anyway, it looks like the GBC is circling their wagons around -- another deviant posing as messiah -- after they already did that to defend a number of their previous falling down messiahs. The Lokanath people are saying this is a one time incident, and something from a long time ago, so it does not count now. 

No, this is another incident among dozens of other incidents, where their bogus guru are caught deviating, and they are cover up for the deviant. Anyway, good luck deviant messiah's GBC folks, social media, maybe even mass media, is going to expose you criminals over and over, until all this is corrected/ ys pd

=======================  
 

PADA: Well from my personal experience, GBC has ZERO tolerance for those of us addressing the molesting, which is why we are generally banned, beaten, exiled, removed, given death threats, and worse. Some of my ex-gurukuli friends are also totally appalled that the GBC spent $20,000,000 suing Bangalore in the Delhi Supreme Court, trying to eject hundreds and hundreds of more devotees from the ISKCON temples, so they could make another ghost town, instead of spending $20,000,000 on helping -- the ISKCON children, many of whom are in dire situations. 

Some have been homeless, living in cars, no education funds, no health care and etc. etc. Even giving them a measly $25,000 would help them immensely, but the cupboard is always bare for these ex-kids? The only good news is, Bangalore asked for our assistance, and so we helped them with supportive documents that were then submitted into the Supreme Court in Delhi, and we thwarted the GBC's attempt to remove these hundreds and hundred of more devotees from ISKCON's temples. Meanwhile the GBC complains -- there is a manpower shortage? But they want to spend $20M -- removing people? And the reason they want to remove Bangalore folks? They have wonderful programs for kids, like they do at their branch temple here. Programs for kids has to be stomped out, even if it costs $20M! Did I forget to mention, Lokanath swami endorsed the lawsuit to sue these devotees, and waste all this expenditure on -- buying new Mercedes for -- lawyers. ys pd

EM: ISKCON is a giant criminal money laundering operation, nothing more.

PADA: Unfortunately, Lokanath's program has caused a number of molested children to commit suicide already. Whatever he does now -- it is too late to save those folks. And his program of banning our people has caused severe depression in the Vaishnavas, for example one of my lady friends told me she had "lost her will to live," and she died of cancer in 1987. I went to the hospital to see her, none of the GBC bigshots even knew she was dying. Another one of my friends died of alcohol poison after he was kicked out. And so on! And now they just wrote a giant paper attacking Satya's testimony as having some discrepancies. In sum, they always ban, insult, remove and attack others, whether victims -- or their advocates. Whatever he does now, it will be too little too late for all the victims already gone over the waterfalls of his process. ys pd

PADA: Yes, we have to be respectful to the pedophile messiah's project? And then their followers like Cyril Wohrer start out by calling us "jerks." Where is the respect there? So they are allowed to used name calling, insults, never mind worse tactics, and we have to put on the kid gloves? And where is the debate being held? ys pd 

Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute - Bengaluru, India Vyasa Pooja

Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute - Bengaluru, India

https://scsiscs.org/

http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2015/06/how-sridhara-maharaja-tripurari-swami.html

[PADA: Sheesh. I think we have to call this the "all over the map" Guru Parampara. And this is the result of the GBC going to "outside authorities" such as BR Sridhara Maharaja, founder father of the 1936 bi-sexual deviant acharya's program. Then later on, after 1978 BR Sridhara became "the advisor" of the GBC's 11 bogus gurus. And BRS defended them and chastised our protest of his 11 bogus gurus by saying "none (of us) should protest." 

So BR Sridhara was very upset that we were challenging his program, i.e. worship of his illicit sex with men, women and children guru parampara. Of course, evidently there is now sex with cats in their guru parampara, buried in samadhi in the dham no less.

Now! They are saying Bhakti Madhava Puri Maharaja is another Vyasa, and so he needs his 78th Appearance Day (Vyasa Puja) "Celebration of Sripad Bhakti Madhava Puri Maharaja" -- and they are using prayers that he is equal to the external representation form of Krishna. Right, anyone who is a follower of the "the advisor" for the post-1978 illicit sex with men, women and children of guru parampara, after making a bi-sexual deviant acharya in 1936, is the bona fide parampara to attain Krishna. 

Did we forget to mention that dissenters to BR Sridhara's 1936 guru "Ananta Vasudeva" were banned, beaten, had their faces pushed into dog stools and some dissenters were beaten on the skull with bricks, and some died. Then there were big lawsuits and bad press media in the 1940s. Then Sridhara's post-1936 "messiah from heaven" guru later on committed suicide, after his son was poisoned to death for starting to expose their scandals.

And then BR Sridhara's post-1978 11 gurus program has been banning, beating, molesting, suing and killing people as well. Sounds like the SAME pattern repeated here pilgrims!

Wow! A) It is a parampara from GOD Almighty, B) They promote deviants and / or sexual predators as their acharyas, and -- C) We get beaten or killed for protesting. And then their "guru parampara" is sued in Dallas for $400,000,000 for mass child abuse, after some of our associates are assassinated for protesting their child abuse guru parampara process.

Now lets not forget, this pedophile messiah's project is all being made so -- we can convince the "science and scholarly community" of the validity of Krishna's religion. And Bhakti Swarupa Damodar is "voted in" to the GBC's pedophile messiahs club himself. And he only pulled his Vyasasana out of San Francisco temple after we went into the temple and started screaming about it. 

Why are we having a big seat in Krishna's temple for a person voted into the pedophile messiah's guru process? So he felt embarrassed and withdrew his big bogus chair. Yep, even he knew he could not argue that pedophile messiah's projects are bogus.

Now, we have to kick on Darwin's face, by making illicit sex with men, women and children into the guru parampara of successors from God? Sign me up! Of course Darwin's people evidently treat their children much better than this parampara? And their parampara is famous for mistreating women, children, senior devotees and even violence towards dissenters, just as they had ALREADY orchestrated after 1936.  

Wow, they evidently even have chief ISKCON pedophile messiah's club defender Brahmatirtha in the mix here. It never ends. In any case, this seems to be the main problem: they have an illicit sex with men, women and children guru parampara, whose chief defender, apologist, enabler, advocate and advisor group leaders are people like Sridhara Maharaja. Then they include a person voted into the pedophile messiah's club like Swarupa Damodara, then they get cheer leaders of the pedophile messiah's club like Brahmatirtha to join in?  

OK, how will we convince the scholars and scientists that this is a valid religion, when some of the ex-children victims of their program are calling it "an anal reconstructive surgery of children epidemic"? Anyway, now we know how all this happened, there are bad gurus, and then there are supporters of bad gurus, and all of them are implicated in the entire mess they generated. And that is why shastra says, bad gurus go to the lowest regions of hell, and so do their cheer leaders, enablers, sycophants, hangers on, advisors etc. They are all peas in a PADA. ys pd          

Gopasthami Krishna Bhajans (Video)

 

Is ISKCON Management -- Another North Korea?

Making Pedophiles Popular is Not Working. 

Anywhere Else!

Why would it work in ISKCON?  

PADA: One of my ex-gurukuli friends says the ISKCON managing system operates exactly as the North Korea managing system. Kim Jong Un gets a huge mansion with many servants, and he has several Rolls Royce cars and a collection of Rolex watches. And he has imported high quality food flown in from the West where he gets huge feasts made for himself. 

Meanwhile, many citizens have to eat fried cock roaches, grass, and even -- dirt. Aid groups have taken wrenching photos of children who seem to be starving to death, and everyone acknowledges that there have been severe hunger-related deaths. And we gurukulis were being fed rotten green moldy oatmeal -- and it made us vomit. 

And we were skinny and our bones were sticking out, we looked EXACTLY like North Korea children. And meanwhile the "Supreme Leader" gurus were riding around in Cadillacs and having 35 course feasts made for themselves every day. Exactly what happens in North Korea. 

And even now, we former kids have nothing, while a lot of the Supreme Leaders live in fancy opulent dwellings. And they all along have big cars, Rolex watches, servants, feasts, health care, Apple laptops, and nicest care money can buy etc. 

And my parents would not call the police when they found out I was abused, to defend these Kim Jung Un wanna-be leaders, just like people defend the leaders in North Korea. And people in North Korea cry when Kim Jong Un hurts his foot, because it is all about serving the Supreme Leader while everyone else suffers. 

The North Korea societal model and ISKCON's are - identical. Explains why some of these gurus end up living in San Luis Obisbo, Carpinteria, Venice Beach, and so on and so forth, while a lot of us ended up living in old funky apartments, or sleeping in our cars. They stole the money meant to care for us, to care for themselves.  

I really could not argue with his observation. ys pd

angel108b@yahoo.com

====================

PD Dasi: I thought to write "devotee children" because he (the Lokanath supporter) was a devotee child once and now has devotee children. The whole issue that pissed me off was the psychology around protecting the perpetrators / pedophiles and not the kids. 

Sure it can happen to all kinds of people. I know it can happen in families where abuse will go on for years and other older family members will keep quiet and support the perpetrator, there's so much creepy stuff. So I used the term "devotee child" for a reason, hoping to penetrate through the distorted spiritual psychology. Just like some people are saying Vaishnava Aparada. I think this is a good approach too.

PADA: Well if "the devotees" won't protect the devotee children of their own religion, they certainly won't protect any other children either. It is a slippery slope that only goes downhill. There also seems to be a "devotee" policy of protecting the predators and perps --- more than the children, as a number of ex-children told me personally. Which is why more than a few of the ex-kids around here want nothing to do with the religion, they are "burned out." That will be the natural result if these things are not corrected. ys pd

LM Dasi: Absolutely. I left it at age 15. And you couldn’t pay me any amount to return. It’s not safe for anyone, whether your a child or adult. But I would happily do what I could to achieve justice for the victims of abuse.

CK: Sad truth -- iskcon is nearly worse than old Catholic Church mood its so caught up in money and worship of funny gurus. Institutions can become strange?

Only way to change iskcon is if they ask folk like you and me who are outside looking in, how can we serve you and the public that's the simple solution.

NPB Dasi: Go further. Not just Maharaj. What if this was your guru and your child? Who would you choose?

B Dasa: Therein lies the problem -- many would choose their guru over their own children -- and they did -- and many still do.

RM Dasi: I would be heartbroken, but my kids come first.

MM Dasi: Me too! Kids over corrupt institution!

B Dasa: Maharaj -- and pedophile -- or devotee and pedophile -- don’t mix. There’s no such thing as a child molesting devotee or a child molesting Maharaj, you are one or the other.

PD Dasi: So true, I used that word because it's the language of Visvambhar Sheth. I think an agreeable and common shared phrase would be great, or a profile frame to show that we support the good cause. Just some ideas.

B Dasa: Visvambar Sheth seems like just like the rest of them -- they all got a big name by supporting the corruption, and they wanted to have a bigger name and that means rubbing elbows with child molesters gurus. I have friends that were initiated by these child molesters -- or their friends -- truly disgusting human beings.

Another Ex-Gurukuli Writes: "To The ISKCON Family"

PADA: Even an ordinary professional book writer who is consulting PADA -- cannot find any public recorded statement from any current ISKCON leader that says -- pedophiles are not gurus, were not gurus, could not be gurus, nor are their enablers gurus. That is what lumps them all together, none of them are publicly disassociated from the agenda -- as far as my professional writer friend is concerned. And he is a pro, he knows how to research his materials -- which in part is why he is consulting me. ys pd

NHD: To the ISKCON Family 

There is a current discussion going on within Iskcon that I can no longer ignore in regards to Lokanatha Swami. It's actually a moral conversation that is much bigger than him or his disciples or even the survivor. Who am I and why do I care? I was born into ISKCON. Both of my parents were Shrila Prabhupada disciples, we had no family home. My parents had given everything up when they joined so the different temples and the gurukulas were my home for the first 12 years of my life.

And even though I was a child member, I was Horribly abused in my childhood by members of the Society. I find that in my darkest hours of which there have been many The Bhagavad Gita still makes sense and the teachings of Srila Prabhupada hold true.

[PADA: But did the parents call the police to report the abuse?]

I was married into a ISKCON temple, did baby grain giving for both my kids in a temple and performed the last rites for both of my parents with the assistance and love of my Iskcon Family.

But this is not about me, this is about the legacy of ISKCON, a movement that Prabhupada gifted us. In the near future all of the Prabhupada disciples will be gone. Mahatma Prabhu once told me "you will not be able to effect any change in ISKCON until all the Prabhupada disciples are dead." Which may be true, but it's hard to stay silent on this issue forever. And that day is coming fast if we are all to be honest.

In San Diego in the mid 1990’s a senior member of the Iskcon community and a Prabhupada disciple admitted to his wife he was molesting his daughter, there was resistance at first because he was a great kirtan leader and gave a nice Sunday lecture, but the community eventually turned on him he was reported to the police, arrested, and spent 5 years or so in prison. Then probation, and as far as I understand he is not allowed at the ISKCON temple to this day almost 30 years later. 

I recently met a young couple at a kirtan at Krsna Lounge in San Diego. They stated they were inspired by his preaching to follow Krsna consciousness. I pray that if they find out his past they don't become discouraged on their spiritual journey. 

I don't mention his name out of respect for his daughters ONLY. He at one point justified his behavior by saying he only used his fingers -- he didn't penetrate with his ….. So it was not that bad. As you can imagine, his actions destroyed his family and left a lot of doubt and confusion in the community.

Lokanath Swami -- as Visvambhara Sheth das stated in his recent letter -- was one of those kirtan leaders that I and many others always looked forward to being with, for his Kirtan and to hear his lectures. In fact last LA Rathayatra in 2019 I was with Vishvambara Das playing mrdanga while Lokanath maharaj was leading. I actually knew of this incident for years but was told it was minor and had been dealt with only recently more details have come to my knowledge. 

[PADA: Lokanath is a great kirtan guy, because they banned, beat, sued, removed, exiled, and sometimes killed the other kirtan guys. Swell!]

I would not want to be a GBC member that had to deal with this issue, but it can not be ignored any longer. It wasn’t dealt with properly in the past, or it would not be resurfacing again and again, pitting fellow gurukuli alumni and Devotees against each other.  

Haribhakti Das made an honest and nice video personal plea to Maharaja. I don't know that his request or the request that Vishvambra Das made are the right decision for The GBC, but I would err on the side of the victim / survivor.

I don't know Lokanatha Maharaja closely, and don't presume to tell the GBC what to do. I’m sure they wouldn't listen to me if I did. And I see Haribhakti is now being threatened with violence by disciples of Lokanatha swami for his video statement. And I recently read a very threatening letter to Saraswati dasi who has been shining the torchlight of knowledge on this issue relentlessly. 

[PADA: Right, it is the enforced cult ritualistic worship of pedophiles as messiahs. Enforced means, you can get threats, or be banned, beat, sued, or killed.]

I also understand the disciples of Lokanath, We were taught in gurukula to defend the Guru at all costs and they are doing as they were taught. I am sure many have gained valuable guidance and inspiration from him. I know VIshvambhra and understand his Love for Lokanatha swami. As I get older I see life is not so black and white -- lots of grey.

To defend the Guru is also why I'm writing this letter, to defend Srila Prabhupada and his ISKCON at all costs.

ISKCON is bigger than any one of us, any Guru or GBC member, when Shrila Prabhupada was here he made it clear 4 regulations and 16 rounds, NOT 3reg’s and 12 rounds or 5regs  and 21 rounds .

I ask the GBC to get clear on Child Protection. The duty of the leaders/ Kshatriya is to protect innocent from harm. If a local GBC member bans one member for 30 years but gives 2 year probation to a fellow Guru allowing him to keep all his money and followers -- this is not justice.

I am not saying the two incidents are exactly the same but there are similarities. It's easy to make simple rules: don't say Radha's name more than 3 times in a row or no djembe in Kirtan. 

Protecting the women and children should be the first priority of the leaders / GBC. Currently there are the #ME-TOO and BLACK lives Matter movements worldwide and both are asking for the same thing in many ways: Stop allowing the rich and powerful to get away with things that the average man, woman or BLack man can't get away with.

If ISKCON and the GBC don’t get clear and make tough decisions this will haunt Prabhupada’s movement and may even destroy it. Look what is happening in the 3HO Kundalini Sihk community which was started at the same time as ISKCON. The stories about Yogi Bhajan written by his secretary in 2019 in a book are destroying that Community which was very powerful with millions of dollars and many many followers.

Many of the followers, some of the most dedicated and sincere, are leaving totally disenchanted. We do not want this to happen within ISKCON. Again, That's why I say this is much bigger than Lokanatha Swami his disciples and his victim. This is about the The Family of ISKCON around the world that are conscious of Krsna / God and are we willing to draw the Line in the Sand? 

Is the GBC going to make bold declarations that no matter who you are within the hierarchy of ISKCON be that a bhakta or a GURU / GBC there are some things that are Absolutely Unacceptable and Unsupported!!!  

I have been a member of this institution for 45 years and I'm no saint. I have made many mistakes but I haven't molested kids. I shouldn't have to say this but I was scared when I found out my wife was pregnant with our daughter. I had heard how victims repeat their experiences and become abusers, and was told MAYA is strong. Thank God I was able to break that chain and never hit or abused my kids.

I watched these failings repeatedly in New Vrindavan … and have watched many big ISKCON leaders, at one time exalted Gurus, fall by the wayside over the years. There has been so much pain in this movement. I have seen so many good people, members of ISKCON become inimical towards ISKCON and leave because of double standards and dishonest guru’s and leaders.

I keep hoping we the ISKCON family, good bad and ugly can work together and right this ship stop sweeping the dirt under the rug and deal with it. I found that when I’m honest about my failings and mistakes The ISKCON family is very kind and understanding.

NPD: Thank you Nimai for being brave enough to speak openly with love and understanding. For all parties and especially Guru and Gauranga. That's the real role of administrative people including our illustrious GBC. Or its role as leading a society spreading love of Radha Krishna. Like you said many real loving kind people devoted to this spreading of Love have left for good reason when they should have been loved and supported ... and protected. 

It's still an option to make a society in ISKCON THATS honest caring practical and caring. And actually putting God first. Love you bro. Just my 2 cents on your great letter. Trying to me more positive and hopeful myself less cynical and a little less sarcastic. It's about the solution I think you're saying.

R Dasa: True!

Swami B: Thank you, Nimai.

ZB: Shitcon has been finished for years until these fake ass gurus who all associate and promote their own worship get out -- along with all of there blind followers -- nothing will change. They will continue to worship pedorapests. Just like they buried Kirtanananda in a samadhi ...

T Dasi: Thank you for this. May your voice be heard.

LR Dasi: Well said!

KD: They banned djembe? Who did that and why?

JG: “the sinister movement has already entered ISKCON” A.C.Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada. This was when he was still here on earth in the 70’s. Every grass roots movement gets infiltrated by Pedos. In order to corrupt the movement. Look at the Catholic Church.

R dasa: Outstanding overview of nuance, thorough and balanced while showing empathy to all parties and still running the base line principles for justice. Wow. Brilliantly done.

BK: Well written, thanks for sharing.

YD: All of GBC should step down give up their bank accounts correct the edited books pay back $8 million × 45. To Iskcon Temple s that was stolen from Srila Prabhupada s intellectual properties. All glories to the sincere Srila Prabhupada followers -- they will keep ship from sinking.

HL: Thank you for speaking from your heart. 

R Dasi: Well said Brother.

RAC: ND, I am so impressed with your post. You are a wonderful example of Prabhupada man.

BBS: Well said, it takes courage to speak up. And especially for the Truth nowadays. It’s so covered by deceit and lies. Hare Krishna all glories to your kirtan seva thru the years.

YD: LS should step down put on white cloth continue to chant 16 rounds give up all his bank accounts then he will get the respect of the devotees again, and not be an embarrassment to Srila Prabhupada. One really important point is that he was a Swami at the time of his encounter with the girl. That is especially sinister behavior. He should have known better no excuses for him.

D Devi: Nicely said we appreciate your honesty and concern i know your pain I was also a victim... and how hard it is to stay firm in your sadhana...

JD: Beautifully written, and much needed.

M Dasa: Good job ND! Unfortunately, those with too much power can just remain silent and no change takes place. In the 4th canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam, Srila Prabhupada explains that, although Prithu maharaja, as a raja-rishi, was sufficiently enlightened to make all the decisions Himself without consulting the brahmanas and sages / advisors, He would NOT do so. 

He understood that, for the smooth running of society, it is extremely important to keep the social roles played by different actors. One of the very first things that need to happen to really address most problems at their root is to separate managerial authority from ecclesiastical authority. In other words, you're either a GBC or a guru, but you can't wear both hats.

⁠That way, one body of authority is accountable to the other. And one body of authority has leverage on the other and can enact changes when some deviations occur. But as long as gurus are also decision-makers, and decision-makers are also allowed to collect disciples, nothing will change because absolute power under the garb of humility and erudition is simply too intoxicating!

When the 2 power-heavy, top social roles are occupied by the same people, great societal disturbances are bound to happen. So, let’s separate them two and bring the house back to order.

ND: Mukunda Das I agree 100%.

DPD: Good points MD. There should be NO lifetime members of the GBC - 3 years max. No more nonsense absolute authority! The Direction of Management doctrine by Srila Prabhupada spells it out.

GGD: I feel you and please know I'm here to support you!! Keep Sharing!!

DP: It’s a mess. Your voice is heartfelt. There are people in those posts who have been discovered to be doing even illegal / corrupt activities for years. Some of them are overlooked, a few are removed (recently) from GBC, but are still allowed to be a so-called guru. Many complaints are totally IGNORED by the GBC body, as if using that method of silence will make the complainant and problem disappear. 

Of course, this attitude will destroy ISKCON more and more. Our GBC I had chosen for Arizona (they removed him now) wrote to me: “of course there is corruption in the GBC, but what makes you think YOU can fix it.” I was shocked by his own admission, and by his unwillingness to work with the honest segment of leaders to vanquish the problem. 

It’s like something may be wrong with the mechanics of your car. You got to fix it!!! If they the present GBC body won’t fix it, which has been there response for years, then maybe a grassroots movement of concerned devotees is needed to be organized - to remove them all, and re-elect a better working Group. That’s the only intelligent solution. Either get used to this passive GBC attitude, or organize many prabhus and even TPs, and put on the pressure. No response? Ok you are all out!

The GBC has no oversight, so they can do anything with no one to correct them, when before Srila Prabhupada was there to personally adjust and do the needful. It’s pretty much a lost cause, I’ve discovered with 0 checks and balances above the GBC. That is a pity. Srila Prabhupada himself said there are infiltrators that are trying to destroy his Movement from within. 

They have to be discovered by intelligence and removed pronto! The honest Kshatriyas within the GBC, have to boldly step up. I’ve personally given up. The corruption is too thick, I’m sorry to say. Thank you for speaking up. All glories to the sincere devotees.maybe last point. They are not untouchable. Only true if we think they are and we do nothing! Legal move against all this, forces a reaction. That’s an option too. The easiest solution is for the “good guys in the GBC to fix it. But we’ve already seen, they won’t. Love you Nimai. You’re and awesome devotee/soldier.

NHD: Give up means to surrender, I understand ultimately everything will come out in the wash it's all up to Krsna / God but my nature has been to speak up when I perceive wrong doing this as got me on a lot of trouble.

DP: If I can be of help to join a concentrated effort, I’m available. I tried to go at it alone. Didn’t do too much. But if the gurukulis start to organize they can make changes happen.

[PADA: All this is a good start. If we do not fix the name of ISKCON, there won't any ISKCON left to fix later on. ys pd]

Oh no, this poor chap also getting threats of violence evidently ...

https://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2021/07/loving-plea-to-lokanath-swami-video.html

Cyril Wohrer Attacks PADA!

https://www.instagram.com/cyril.wohrer/?

Cyril Wohrer: I just happened to read a comment of yours about ISKCON gurus. I don't know you. I do not want to know you. A bit of advice, however, from a stranger: pray to Lord Nityananda to remove 1) your philosophical misconceptions about guru-tattva, and 2) the envy in your heart. Sorry, but you're a jerk, I humbly believe, and you are not even man enough to read my messages. So good-bye. 

[PADA: You are quoting Hrdayananda Das Goswami, a founder father of the "illicit sex with men, women and children guru parampara," evidently also sex with cats in samadhis. You are citing HDG as your authority, but you are also posting photos of yourself with HDG. It seems you are part of their process? 

Then you are upset when we point out that Hrdayananda's group has promoted deviants, if not pedophiles, as Krishna's parampara, acharyas, guru successors and messiahs. The result of Hrdayananda's promoting their pedophile messiahs project is -- many of the children of ISKCON were mass molested. And the society was then sued for $400,000,000, and went bankrupted. 

So you are evidently supporting their guru parampara? And you were in another debate with someone else -- where you were promoting "Krishna West," and cursing and swearing at others for not agreeing. We need to "modernize" the Krishna religion by having children worship sexual predators, illicit sex deviants or pedophiles as their gurus and messiahs?  

I did read your messages, you cited HDG as your authority. You are also posting photos of yourself with HDG. I need to pray to Lord Nityananda, so I too can promote Hrdayananda's illicit sex with men, women, and children, and maybe sex with cats in samadhis, guru parampara. Seriously dude! 

And you are posting photos of yourself with another member of the pedophile messiah's sampradaya, Mahavishnu swami. He is also evidently "2/3 show of hands voted in" to their oral sex with taxi driver's in the dhama guru parampara, also no small amount of pedophiles in his parampara. 

I need to pray, so I too can promote their program of worship of illicit sex with taxi drivers in the dham, and / or pedophiles in samadhis -- as God's successors and messiahs? Why should I want children to worship pedophiles as their messiahs, as their "modernized" Krishna program has done since 1978?  

I am man enough to read your messages, you are citing the founder father of the anal reconstructive surgery of children epidemic guru parampara as an authority. These people are not my authority. I do not need to pray to anyone so I can join the people who bury pedophiles and evidently sex with cats in samadhis. 

As soon as I said there is a pedophile problem, your "modernized Krishna religion" people said I am a jerk. That is how your ilk caused the molesting of thousands of children. I think that the people who called me a jerk, and caused thousands of kids to be molested by ignoring our complaints, are the people who have to pray for mercy. 

I am envious of Hrdayananda's anal reconstructive surgery epidemic of children guru parampara? Really? Hee hee, you guys make yourselves look more foolish every day. No sane person is envious of their anal sex epidemic guru parampara. Anyway, sorry, you are the person who is acting like a jerk. You don't want to read my messages, fine, you don't have to, you can listen to the founders of the pedophile messiah's club as you evidently are now.  

ys pd]   

angel108b@yahoo.com

Hee hee, yep, having children worshiping pedophile messiah's guru projects.

How much more awesome can we get? 

Yes as a matter of fact our guru parampara contains:

1) Illicit sex with men, women and possibly children;

2) Evidently -- sex with cats;

3) Therefore! We are the REAL guru parampara!

Descending From God Almighty!

4) Sign me up!

Visvambar Sheth "Standing by" Lokanath swami

 Visvambhar Sheth says in his letter below, "Placing more restrictions on Maharaj in an attempt to placate the situation is a band-aid solution that will not resolve the deep rooted and festering anger felt by many in my generation."

Actually, that is all that is being asked:

1. Give Lokanath Swami's case to the ICPO. 

2. Restrict Lokanath Swami from any institutional leadership positions in ISKCON.  

Doing those two things would bring long overdue accountability to this situation and go a long way towards practically demonstrating ISKCON leadership's commitment to child protection in Srila Prabhupada's Society.

======================

From: Visvambhar Sheth <visvambhar@gmail.com>

Date: July 16, 2021 at 11:52:02 AM EDT

Subject: Second Gen Gurukuli Aspring Disciple of Lokanath Maharaj

Dear Esteemed GBC Members, I am writing to you as a second generation Gurukuli, living in the USA (Alachua), and as someone that simultaneously has a very close relationship with Lokanath Maharaj. Maharaj has been a friend to my family and also a mentor to my father (Bhadra Das SDG), since the very beginning of my father's spiritual life (1979). 

[PADA: Oh great, 1979 is when Satsvarupa started saying our GBC gurus are falling down -- because the mahajanas ALSO fall down. And SDG was writing his horrific document "The Mahajanas Have Difficulties" -- trying to blend his illicit sex with men, women and children messiahs program -- into the sacred lives of the Mahajanas. 

And Bhadra das is following / inspired by / these people -- who blend together pedophiles with Krishna's Mahajanas? Yes, as a matter of fact the Mahajanas are illicit sex with men, women and children deviants, just like we are! That is inspiring -- to -- perhaps Satan. No Godly person would ever follow / be inspired by / juxtaposing deviants with saints. 

People following the fools who are blending together deviants -- if not homosexual pedophiles -- with the lives of the Mahajanas are -- according to Sulochan -- "the sickest puppies on earth." Who is inspired by blending together the Mahajanas with SDG's homosexuals, pedophiles, sexual predators, porno swamis, alcoholics, drug addicts and other deviants -- artificially posing as messiahs? 

OK sick puppies, not normal people. Did we forget to mention, an SDG school teacher said EVERY SINGLE KID in the SDG school was molested. How inspiring is that! In sum, Satsvarupa should be in jail for orchestrating mass child abuse programs.]

In 1990, Maharaj visited our home in Los Angeles and he inspired me, at the time a 7 year old boy, to chant 2 rounds of Mahamantra daily. I have been chanting his pranam mantra since that time (for the last 31 years). 

[PADA: 1990. isn't that when the GBC gurus were getting ghost busted by Chiteshvara? And simultaneously Narayan Maharaja came to the aid of the GBC and defended them in their 1990 "ISKCON Journal." And after that -- many of the ISKCON "kuli kids" ran off to worship NM, the topmost defender of the Tamal / GBC pedophile's guru program on the planet. NM promotes Tamal and their pedophile sex guru program -- and NM was yelling at our people in Texas for challenging Tamal's molester regime. 

Then, after NM promotes his favorite child buggery messiah's program, he just says "the children are getting their karma." Then! Many ISKCON kids ran off to worship NM and other top defenders of the pedophile messiah's program, and then -- we should rely on their judgement in the case of Lokanath? 

Many of the ex-kulis worship NM, the guy who promotes pedophile sex guru programs, and then NM says -- it is your karma. And we should listen to this group? No, these are the people we should not listen to! No it was not "their karma." 

Their leaders supported a regime that oppressed the victims, then blamed "their karma"! Blaming the victims! Again! NM is another guy who should have gone to jail for hanging out in Texas supporting the Tamal regime, at the same exact time we were getting the courts to sue Tamal / NM regime in Texas.]

I spent almost 5 years, in my early 20’s (2003-2007), traveling with Maharaj both internationally, and also extensively in India, as his personal servant and mridanga player. I have yet to take formal initiation from him, but this has only been due to my own spiritual shortcomings. I asprire to be formally initiated by him in the near future.

[PADA: OK so by the year 2000 you all should have known about the Windle Turley child abuse lawsuit, the suicides, and the "industrial levels of child abuse" project that Lokanath is a primary advocate / supporter / enabler / leader of. And he is in fact one of their chief defenders, apologists, enablers, scholarly advocates, and participants of said regime. Perhaps only a few people like Narayan Maharaja could boast being bigger defenders of the "industrial level" child abuse pedophile's messiah's club.]

Over the last couple of months, previously unreleased details concerning the case of Maharaj abusing an 11 year old girl have surfaced, after some 30 odd years of being suppressed and minimized. This has disturbed many people. As a second generation Gurukuli, I appreciate my peers for calling out the inefficient way this case has been dealt with from the beginning. 

That said, I do not agree with their methods of public slander and gossip on social media, even though I understand their mistrust in our society and their desire for justice. My generation, particularly those older than me, lived through many atrocities that no child should ever experience, and this has left many of them ever vigilant to fight against abuse. 

[PADA: Right, while the "industrial levels of abuse" has been going on -- left, right and center -- Lokanath swami has been patting the key orchestrators of that regime on the back and giving them high fives. "Job well done." Again! He has been one of their top most scholarly defenders, apologists and enablers. 

Sulochan said they are a "child buggery messiah's regime" -- and Lokanath has been with that regime all along. In sum, Lokanath swami is a chief enabler of the molester messiahs project. Worse, Lokanath swami says the ritviks are bogus, of course, because they worship pure devotees and not his illicit sex with men, women, children and -- evidently -- cats -- as messiahs project?]  

Meanwhile, while understanding and appreciating my fellow second generation brothers and sisters, I am standing with Maharaj, my guru, who remains dedicated to Srila Prabhupada and ISKCON, upholds an excellent exemplary standard of sadhana and service, and continues to inspire tens of thousands of devotees in their Krsna Consciousness. 

[PADA: You are "standing with" the top leaders of the child buggery messiah's project? OK well there is your problem right there, you are another apologist and enabler. We had to sue your wonderful program for $400,000,000, because the victims of Lokanath's molester messiah's program were committing suicide at the time. You are "inspired" by the program that is causing its children -- to kill themselves?]

I understand that he made a major blunder thirty one years ago, and that it will remain as a stain on his reputation. Being exposed to more details of the incident has served to deepen my fear about the potency of Maya, and highlighted that I must be very careful, because even the most sincere practitioner, my guru maharaja could become liable to momentary fall downs. 

[PADA: Srila Prabhupada says it is the mad elephant offense to consider that gurus fall down. The guru is shaksat hari tvena, as good as God. To say that the "good as God" are sometimes fallen if not pedophiles, is foolish and offensive. 

Fortunately for us, any average citizen in the USA knows that an illicit sex with men, women and children messiahs program is bogus. In sum, gurus do not fall down, much less fall down into pedophile activity. Nor are gurus sued for $400M for mass molesting on "an industrial scale."] 

Given mine and my family’s close association with Maharaj, and witnessing his impeccable character over so many decades, I continue to trust him as a bonafide guru and I aspire to become his qualified and initiated disciple. 

[PADA: Which is why my karmi friends think most people in ISKCON are brain dead, they continue to worship a regime that has to be sued for "industrial levels" of child abuse, of their own children no less.]

Of course, I cannot presume to advise senior members of the GBC and would not want to be in your positions, given the tough decisions you have to make. Yet, the sudden response of a third round of the same restrictions that have twice previously been placed on Maharaj will not satisfy the demands of the ‘justice seekers,’ nor will it avoid demoralizing tens of thousands of devotees who have taken shelter of, or are inspired by, Maharaj. While one side will always feel that any punishment is not enough, others don’t even want to hear or believe that anything happened.

[PADA: That is what they told me about Jayatirtha in 1979? Oh prabhu! He has thousands of followers! We cannot take him out of the guru post -- or his followers will be discouraged. And then they said the same things about Bhavananda, Bhagavan, Harikesh, Hansadutta, Kirtanananda, Satsvarupa -- and so on and so on. When does this end?] 

I don’t think that the second generation devotees who have exposed this issue are angry at Maharaj particularly. They are angry about decades of cover-up, disengagement, lack of concern for them, and a lack of responsibility on the part of the leadership. Placing more restrictions on Maharaj in an attempt to placate the situation is a band-aid solution that will not resolve the deep rooted and festering anger felt by many in my generation. 

[PADA: OK now you are arguing with -- yourself? We need to keep maharaja, but by doing that -- we will not solve the deep rooted anger and resentment towards him and his regime.]  

Please instead consider using this as an opportunity for the leadership to make amends to those who have been hurt, molested, or abused. Their grievances must be heard, sincere apologies must be conveyed, reparations must being made, and a humble offering of continued support should be given.

[PADA: OK but if the leadership continues to turn a blind eye to abusive people in high posts in ISKCON, that will make the victims more upset. I cannot even print statements from some victims about all this, and their burying Kirtanananda in a samadhi, and their making Radhanath a guru etc. -- because we have a policy on not reproducing curse words.]

Placing travel / initiation restrictions on Maharaj is a disservice to ISKCON in North America, specifically to second generation devotees like myself. Even if they are not disciples / aspiring, many of my generation have experienced Maharaj’s kirtans and his saintly personal interactions.

[PADA: Promoting an industrial level child abuse guru regime is not saintly. It is criminal, and all of these enablers are just about as guilty as the perps, because without these Lokanath / Narayan Maharaja et al. apologists, enablers and "shastric defenders," the illicit sex with men, women and children guru parampara would never have stood for one second.]

I can confidently say, having traveled extensively through North America with Maharaj on every one of his trips to the USA over the last twenty years, that most second generation devotees in ‘good-standing’ from Los Angeles, Dallas, Houston, New York, New Jersey, DC, Alachua, etc, would be able to look beyond the issue from 30 years ago and joyfully have Maharaj’s association. I know many second generation peers feel as I do although their voices may be silenced due to fear of being ostracized or ‘taking sides.’ 

[PADA: No need for a few people here and there to take a side, since already billions and billions of people on earth already know that illicit sex with men, women and children, pedophiles etc. are not EVER a guru lineage FROM GOD. It is a guru lineage FROM HELL. And it will go back there -- where it came from! 

It does not matter if a few people continue in the illusion that deviants are or were gurus, that will always be a minority teeny cult who want to worship deviants. The mass of people will never accept a pedophile guru cult, full stop period.]

Please know that I personally still aspire to become a qualified ‘official’ disciple of Lokanath Maharaj. The ICPO has already declared that they would ‘remove Maharaj’s status as an initiation spiritual master.’ This would be a great impediment on my spiritual path and the spiritual lives of many second generation peers who are inspired by Maharaj. Please don't ignore all of us, just because we don't take to social media to air our grievances.

How can the leaders and the second generation devotees work together to heal the old wounds? How can we move forward with brave conviction and transparency? Can we also forgive the indiscretions of those that are trying their best? I trust that you are taking many view points into account and will approach this specific issue appropriately.

Your Servant,

Visvambhar Sheth

Parents: Bhadra Das (SDG) & Ananga Manjari (ACBSP)

Service: The Mayapuris and other Kirtan projects

Current Residence: Alachua Florida USA

Contact: visvambhar@gmail.com  +1 352-316-1559

Visvambhar (Vish) Sheth

352-316-1559

www.visvambhar.com

हरे कृष्ण हरे कृष्ण कृष्ण कृष्ण हरे हरे || हरे राम हरे राम राम राम हरे हरे||

[PADA: The molester messiahs project is failing. Humpty Dumpty GBC sat on a wall. Humpty Dumpty GBC made ISKCON people worship their illicit sex with men, women and children as messiahs project. Humpty Dumpty had a great fall, because industrial level child abuse was the result. And then, all of the Kings horses and all the King's men, could not put their Humpty pedophile messiahs program back together again.]    

http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2018/11/iskcon-alachua-fl-defends-molester.html

PADA @ angel108b@yahoo.com

Facebook's "Virtual Church" With Evangelicals

 https://www.yahoo.com/news/facebook-wants-connect-god-facebook-143958483.html

PADA: Many devotees are attending ISKCON's programs / Bangalore's programs / and / or Hindu's temples and bhajans online, especially with the Pandemic going on. Yep, but so are a lot of the Christians / Muslims / Buddhists / Yogis etc. doing same, because of the Pandemic, and also because it is just a lot easier for people to tune in at home than go to all the bother of driving to the Church, or they may not even live near a Church.  

Facebook is trying to organize that process for religious groups, and we think it is a good idea. Save the driving, the hassle, and the potential to get the virus, and just stay home and tune in there. Or even, tune into programs going on in India when you are in the USA. 

We should also make similar outreach programs, and I think some of the Prabhupadanugas should look into how this is being done and make similar programs for the Vaishnavas. A few Zoom meeting programs have also started here and there, but an expanded outreach sounds like the way to go for a broader audience.

ys pd   

Ramesvara dasa (Robert Grant) Discussing Book Changes

From: Ramesvara dasa

Date: July 19, 2021 at 12:34:14 PM EDT
To: Leaders of todays BBTi
Subject: BBT ERP Editing Principles

July 19, 2021

Dear Respected Maharajas and Respected Vaisnavis and Vaisnavas.

Hare Krsna. Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. I pray this finds you all safe, healthy and blissfully engaged in your service.

Thank you for the time you spent and the work you engaged in to come up with the proposed “Editorial Principles for the Editorial Review Panel”.

I’m sorry that I didn’t have the opportunity to be interviewed. I was the BBT Trustee most responsible for publishing Srila Prabhupada’s first editions of his translations and commentaries from 1975, which included the Sri Caitanya-Caritamrita, Srimad Bhagavatam 5th – 10th Cantos, and other works such as Teachings of Lord Kapila, Teachings of Queen Kunti, etc. 

Prior to that I was the original BBT Secretary when Srila Prabhupada formed the BBT Trust in 1972, and the BBT Manager from late 1973-1974. As such I received many instructions about editing and publishing His Divine Grace’s books, both in letters, in numerous personal meetings, and especially when I travelled with Srila Prabhupada as his personal secretary in 1977.

Of all the varied instructions I received, what stands out the most is when Srila Prabhupada told me: *"My greatest anxiety is that in the future [after his disappearance] they will make changes to my books. That will ruin the entire Krsna Consciousness Movement."* That is directly from my diary.

Of all the changes, what Srila Prabhupada expressed to me as his greatest anxiety was what I call “politically correct” changes, made by editors and trustees 50 or 100 years from now or even later, when society’s social dictates make trustees and editors think they need to add or delete or try to clarify his words to fit the times. Many times, Srila Prabhupada said how carefully he chooses every word so that his books will be timeless and be considered the lawbooks for humanity for the 10,000-year golden age within this Kali Yuga.

Your paper can be misread to leave the door open to future editing in the name of the principles you listed. Your paper is incomplete in respect to one core omission - to seal Prabhupada’s books for all time from future editing.

I am convinced that *before our generation departs this world, the editing  department must be permanently closed*, and by GBC Resolution, endorsed by all BBT Trustees, it should be resolved that Srila Prabhupada’s books are sealed from any further change or editing, and that *anyone who attempts to publish them [Prabhupada's books] with future changes should be officially excommunicated*. 

No other penalty will seal the books as effectively as a resolution that anyone making future changes is expelled from our ISKCON and BBT society.

Unless this is established as a core principle, we all leave the editing and change door open, to changes we cannot imagine that future BBT Trustees and editors may sincerely believe are needed. 

This principle, that Srila Prabhupada’s books are sealed, is missing from your paper. While it may not have been your assignment to establish such a permanent principle, it desperately needs to be at the core of our Movement’s editing policy, by both GBC and BBT resolution. *Without sealing the books from future changes, we have all failed to relieve Srila Prabhupada of his greatest anxiety*.

Once it is clearly established that His Divine Grace’s books are sealed forever, and once that anxiety is removed from the minds of all devotees, you can have a deep and rational discussion about what changes have already been made, in an atmosphere that is not surcharged with fear and anxiety about the future.

I would like to share one other observation. The “rascal editors” conversations that were transcribed and sent to me and others, along with letters from Tamal Krsna Goswami further describing Srila Prabhupada’s concerns, were perhaps the biggest crisis I ever faced as a BBT Trustee. We were all praying for Srila Prabhupada to postpone his disappearance, and we were all praying for him to continue translating the 10th Canto and perhaps more, when these editing concerns were sent to me.

My response, dated July 13, 1977, was drafted after one week of meetings with the BBT editors and managers, and represented the official policy of the BBT. My letter and Srila Prabhupada’s reply (via Tamal Krsna Goswami) are the last and final instructions on editing issued by Srila Prabhupada. 

In my mind this always superseded much earlier instructions. For his continued work on the 10th Canto as well as the one-time only review he wanted of previously published books, editing was to be restricted to three categories (with examples) that we sent on behalf of the entire English-language BBT.

These restrictions never included some of the principles, such as making changes to clarify Srila Prabhupada’s words, that you list in your paper. *I would have felt almost offensive to even suggest in July 1977, that Srila Prabhupada’s words, which he told us were given by Krsna Himself, needed to be clarified by less than fully realized Uttama Adhikari editors of English, Sanskrit or Bengali*.

Please consider that I was NOT writing about editing his books beyond his disappearance, unless it was part of a one-time final review of books previously published that he requested. That review does not take
decades.. *The notion that anyone would tell Srila Prabhupada that 44 years after his disappearance there is still an editing department at work making changes
to his books would have, I’m sure, resulted in a divine anger aspect of Srila Prabhupada that no one ever witnessed or even conceived of*. 

I say this out of my personal experiences of suggesting changes to Srila
Prabhupada’s books, having him bang his fist on his desk as he threw me out
of his room while displaying the most fearsome divine anger. So, I return to this core principle- *Seal his books immediately and permanently from any editing and shut down the editing department’s work forever on Srila Prabhupada’s books*.

I pray this leads to an amendment to your paper, and offer any resources I may have (letters, conversations, my diary, memories, etc. that may assist you in adopting this core principle based on my personal interactions with Srila Prabhupada as his BBT Trustee during his manifest pastimes.

I beg to remain your eternally aspiring BBT servant,

Ramesvara dasa

Don't worry, I got this.

Goody. 

Day late / Dollar short. But a good start. 

angel108b@yahoo.com