[NOTE: Cyber vigilantes are just getting started, hee hee. ys pd]
https://www.facebook.com/hridayanandadasgoswami/posts/249624130310159
PRD: Unfortunately Hridayananda Goswami is a known child abuser supporter.
NJD: And insufferable arguer.
MED: Very true!
KD: https://www.facebook.com/100057877216282/posts/249624130310159/
AGD: I think Maharaj was clear that a fair trial is what he supports. He says so in the article.
[PADA: A fair trial for God's messiah successors? A successor to God should not be on trial for sexual predator behavior in the first place.]
SD: He also mentions the BG 9.30 verse which is often misquoted and abused to "chant away sins." So, he's asking for a fair trial, then concluding how the trial should end, or be judged.
AGD: I do not read it that way. I think he’s saying without a fair trial we can never reach a conclusion other than BG 9.30 and appropriate punishment will never be determined, but devotee cancel culture will in the mean time ruin lives without a fair trial.
[PADA: So when Hrdayananda's guru program bans, beats, molests, sues, and assassinates people, we should forgive that process? And thus perpetuate that process, as has happened?]
HRD: You're giving too much credit to him. A brahminical discussion presupposes the existence of brahmanas (or at least people who behave like brahmanas). The most important brahminical quality, especially in the age of Kali, is truthfulness. The behavior of most GBC members doesn't speak favorably in that regard.
For instance, the cover-ups, the lies, the deceit, place most of them in a different varna altogether. So in a sense, he's correct, we cannot have a brahminical discussion. However, the reason is not the "internet vigilantes" but the deceitful GBC members.
S Dasi: We are only asking that this never-resolved child abuse be handled by the ICPO. The GBC even promised this on May 12th then secretly took it away 5 days later. Why? Regarding cancel culture, child abuse is an insidious form of cancel culture.
AGD: I think Maharaj is basically explaining why GBC members do not engage in such online forums, and he cites a personal example from his own history. Therefore, Maharaja is basically saying that this is the ground floor of debate and nothing much will happen if the GBC is not willing to counter “devotee cancel culture” with real engagement.
AGD: I think Maharaj is basically explaining why GBC members do not engage in such online forums, and he cites a personal example from his own history. Therefore, Maharaja is basically saying that this is the ground floor of debate and nothing much will happen if the GBC is not willing to counter “devotee cancel culture” with real engagement.
It’s a Catch-22. And as long as we are stuck in such a dilemma, BG 9.30 is all we can rely upon, but applying this verse is always controversial and we never find 100% consensus among devotees, generally, in how it should be applied.
Personally, I am not familiar with the allegations of misrepresentations of truth that you are referring to, per se, apart from the highly contentious “poison question” regarding Srila Prabhupada’s disappearance lila.
My guess is that my previous analysis holds true. The GBC would rather be criticized for not submitting the case to the ICPO than for having the ICPO whitewash it. Maybe they will eventually explain themselves.
S Dasi: The ICPO has never handled the case.
AGD: I was abused as a kid. I don’t see that the term cancel culture applies to the abuse itself. Other terms for sure, but cancel culture in my mind is about dialog in a Public forum and how it is used to destroy the lives of people who hold ‘wrong moral views’.
S Dasi: Do you really believe the GBC doesn’t have the power to whitewash the ICPO’s handling of the case if they were to receive it? Not with Kamlesh Krishna and Gandharvika at the helm. Why do you think the GBC is so reluctant to give them the case?
AGD: I feel like Maharaja is also pointing out how effective vigilantes can be. I agree with Maharaja that vigilante justice is likely to be the only satisfying Avenue of resolution to those devotees who do not want to be victims of the somewhat perversely neutral debates of managing authorities who have larger organizational considerations to attend to.
[PADA: Cyber vigilantes is what to expect when the GBC promotes deviations, then oppresses those who complain. The oppressed folks best outlet is to become a cyber vigilante, as is happening more and more.]
AGD: I prefer to think that they have decided to be criticized for this rather than suffer the outcome of the investigations. Which means they could be hiding something.
S Dasi: Hiding something? The GBC? Never!
Personally, I am not familiar with the allegations of misrepresentations of truth that you are referring to, per se, apart from the highly contentious “poison question” regarding Srila Prabhupada’s disappearance lila.
My guess is that my previous analysis holds true. The GBC would rather be criticized for not submitting the case to the ICPO than for having the ICPO whitewash it. Maybe they will eventually explain themselves.
S Dasi: The ICPO has never handled the case.
AGD: I was abused as a kid. I don’t see that the term cancel culture applies to the abuse itself. Other terms for sure, but cancel culture in my mind is about dialog in a Public forum and how it is used to destroy the lives of people who hold ‘wrong moral views’.
S Dasi: Do you really believe the GBC doesn’t have the power to whitewash the ICPO’s handling of the case if they were to receive it? Not with Kamlesh Krishna and Gandharvika at the helm. Why do you think the GBC is so reluctant to give them the case?
AGD: I feel like Maharaja is also pointing out how effective vigilantes can be. I agree with Maharaja that vigilante justice is likely to be the only satisfying Avenue of resolution to those devotees who do not want to be victims of the somewhat perversely neutral debates of managing authorities who have larger organizational considerations to attend to.
[PADA: Cyber vigilantes is what to expect when the GBC promotes deviations, then oppresses those who complain. The oppressed folks best outlet is to become a cyber vigilante, as is happening more and more.]
AGD: I prefer to think that they have decided to be criticized for this rather than suffer the outcome of the investigations. Which means they could be hiding something.
S Dasi: Hiding something? The GBC? Never!
ASM: I read it as, internet vigilantes destroy brahminical debate ... in other words stop destroying our ISKCON and let us have a fair trial. He forgets this case was up for a fair trial for nothing less than 30 whole years ... and they allowed the time to silently hide it ... all the while allowing innocent people be misguided. 30 years, and now they don't want these children of Krishna to say anything?
HRD: Precisely. Their deceit destroys the possibility of any serious debate, brahminical or not.
AGD: Well, he wrote his essay in a generic way. He is revealing a perspective that shows why it’s such an uphill climb now. Frankly, I think his also goading the vigilantes by pointing out that their cancel culture is effective sometimes, but terrorism is really the only effective means of dealing with these situations, due to BG 9.30 and how people disagree on how to apply it.
[PADA: BG 9:30 does not apply to sexual predators posing as acharyas. It applies to neophytes who will fail along the way, and we should be forgiving to the humble devotee in practice, not forgiving to the artificial rubber stamp acharya.]
ASM: Well. Honestly he lost me when he mentioned the other trial he was involved with. He said there was no fair trial and the life of one devotee who was ruined. He sided with that devotee, when he should have said -- the lives of her many many victims were ruined. I would love to live in a religious society where leaders side and advocate for the society's children first.
AGD: I don’t know the details of that case at all. He apparently believes that a fair trial would have been the right course of action, and in a civilized society how can that not be the case. However, if the punishment doesn’t fit the crime, then vigilante justice is the only way.
ASM: If you follow him (I have -- as I was once his disciple), you would notice his classist tendency. Here he clearly is referring to it again, those who are brahmans hold the debate ... let the non brahmans (he has said many times in the past sudra-Americans) quietly accept the fair trial.
[PADA: Hee hee, yup his society of the worship of illicit sex with men, women and children acharyas is the braminical path. Who believes that rubbish?]
ASM: Well. Honestly he lost me when he mentioned the other trial he was involved with. He said there was no fair trial and the life of one devotee who was ruined. He sided with that devotee, when he should have said -- the lives of her many many victims were ruined. I would love to live in a religious society where leaders side and advocate for the society's children first.
AGD: I don’t know the details of that case at all. He apparently believes that a fair trial would have been the right course of action, and in a civilized society how can that not be the case. However, if the punishment doesn’t fit the crime, then vigilante justice is the only way.
ASM: If you follow him (I have -- as I was once his disciple), you would notice his classist tendency. Here he clearly is referring to it again, those who are brahmans hold the debate ... let the non brahmans (he has said many times in the past sudra-Americans) quietly accept the fair trial.
[PADA: Hee hee, yup his society of the worship of illicit sex with men, women and children acharyas is the braminical path. Who believes that rubbish?]
ASM: There was a trial, CPO found a guilty party. Hrdayananda tried to reverse the CPO's guidance and sentencing calling for lack of a fair trial as some believed the evidence was faulty (some questioned the girls who were interviewed and called them liars). Anyways he did write several times saying he was for a fair trial and that he wasn't taking sides. Here, he clearly sided with the abusive devotee whose life was ruined, and not the devoTEEs whose lives were ruined in their childhood years by that person.
AGD: Thanks for the extra context. I am not defending Maharaj. I am only analyzing his words to extract what he is revealing. You have rightly pointed out that he is did not address the victims in any way, which seems to indicate that he and other GBC members see the victims as receiving the fruits if their past life karma in this life, which is a highly unpalatable perspective.
[PADA: Yep, same thing Narayan Maharaja said. Sure, I kicked jack boots on anyone who did not accept the GBC gurus and Tamal. So I supported the pedophile messiahs in Texas etc, but hey, the victims just go their karma! So who gives a crap about the victims, they got what they deserve! Is that their idea of a fair trial?]
AGD: Thanks for the extra context. I am not defending Maharaj. I am only analyzing his words to extract what he is revealing. You have rightly pointed out that he is did not address the victims in any way, which seems to indicate that he and other GBC members see the victims as receiving the fruits if their past life karma in this life, which is a highly unpalatable perspective.
[PADA: Yep, same thing Narayan Maharaja said. Sure, I kicked jack boots on anyone who did not accept the GBC gurus and Tamal. So I supported the pedophile messiahs in Texas etc, but hey, the victims just go their karma! So who gives a crap about the victims, they got what they deserve! Is that their idea of a fair trial?]
CH: You all know what happened in the Mahabharata with those who didn't stand up for Draupadi at the end of the dice game so I wouldn't be worried too much about these kind of "devotee's" punishment. The main focus should be in my opinion to be on the prevention of further issues.
HRD: #BeLikeVidura
Hridayananda Dasa Goswami ... a brahminical discussion presupposes the existence of brahmanas (or at least people who behave like brahmanas). The most important brahminical quality, especially in the age of Kali, is truthfulness. The behavior of most GBC members, including you, doesn't speak favorably in that regard. For instance, the cover-ups, the lies, the deceit, place most of you in a different varna altogether. So in a sense, you're correct, we cannot have a brahminical discussion. However, the reason is not the "internet vigilantes" but the deceitful GBC members.
CH: TBH I believe that compassion is the very basic of all also of truthfulness. Without compassion how can someone be truthful?
HRD: #BeLikeVidura
Hridayananda Dasa Goswami ... a brahminical discussion presupposes the existence of brahmanas (or at least people who behave like brahmanas). The most important brahminical quality, especially in the age of Kali, is truthfulness. The behavior of most GBC members, including you, doesn't speak favorably in that regard. For instance, the cover-ups, the lies, the deceit, place most of you in a different varna altogether. So in a sense, you're correct, we cannot have a brahminical discussion. However, the reason is not the "internet vigilantes" but the deceitful GBC members.
CH: TBH I believe that compassion is the very basic of all also of truthfulness. Without compassion how can someone be truthful?
PDD: What's that old saying -- actions speak louder than words -- and he is definitely one who speaks too much and doesn't show by his actions.
S Dasi: It would be helpful if just ONE ISKCON leader, just one, can stand up and say "yes, I will do everything I can to protect our children and enforce child protection policies, and this is how I will do it... "
HRD: The bar is too high. Half a leader would do.
S Dasi: It would be helpful if just ONE ISKCON leader, just one, can stand up and say "yes, I will do everything I can to protect our children and enforce child protection policies, and this is how I will do it... "
HRD: The bar is too high. Half a leader would do.
EBD: Why would they do that? That would risk their cushy opulent lifestyle, their front row seats at abhisekhs, the special feasts, servants, big cars, and accomodation etc etc.
KDM: Seems like a fancy way of telling us to be quiet. The assembly of "brahmins" have never demonstrated that they are willing to hear from us and respond to us like "brahmins." They can keep trying hard to be brahmins, while we just try to protect children like civilized people.
IID: I wrote the GBC. Child abuse is wrong. I also read Acharyadeva's article and it is fair and balanced. In it, His Grace says, "I have personally been viciously attacked because I insisted on a fair trial for a senior devotee accused of abuse.
KDM: Seems like a fancy way of telling us to be quiet. The assembly of "brahmins" have never demonstrated that they are willing to hear from us and respond to us like "brahmins." They can keep trying hard to be brahmins, while we just try to protect children like civilized people.
IID: I wrote the GBC. Child abuse is wrong. I also read Acharyadeva's article and it is fair and balanced. In it, His Grace says, "I have personally been viciously attacked because I insisted on a fair trial for a senior devotee accused of abuse.
I repeatedly stated that I did not claim to know what the outcome of a fair trial would be, and thus I did not assert the guilt or innocence of the accused. Internet vigilantes loudly and widely declared my simple defense of universal principles of justice and due process to be a defense of abuse, and thus itself a form of abuse.
ISKCON leaders, fearing such attacks on themselves, did not support a call for a fair trial, even after they were repeatedly shown massive evidence that fair process had been egregiously violated. Thus a devotee’s life was ruined without a fair trial. I have no intention of discouraging strong, robust debate on moral issues, such as punishment of devotee offenders. Rather I seek to defend the necessary cultural conditions for Vaiṣṇava debate to take place fairly." How is this unreasonable?
PDD: This is not unreasonable if it was done 50, 40, 30, 20,10 or even 5 years ago, time for talk is over, talk is cheap now, ZERO tolerance for child abuse, child abuser and for people who cover up and support it, CHILD ABUSE IS AND WILL ALWAYS BE VAISHNAVA APARADHA!
S Dasi: In 1997 the GBC RESOLVED:
"[LAW] 501. THAT the GBC Body hereby declares that the International Society for Krishna Consciousness does not condone abuse of any kind, especially that which is directed towards dependents such as women, children, aged and cows. Battery, verbal and emotional abuse are destructive to the devotional creeper and thus considered serious Vaisnava aparadhas. Any attempt to justify this type of abusive mentality on the basis of sastra is misconstrued and is firmly rejected by all practicing Vaisnavas." https://gbc.iskcon.org/1997
1997 – ISKCON GBC
GBC.ISKCON.ORG
1997 – ISKCON GBC
1997 – ISKCON GBC
· Reply · 11h
SF Dasi: Does anyone knows what is that all about : " ..>> " been egregiously violated. Thus a devotee’s life was ruined without a fair trial.
I have no intention of.... <<.Who is that "devotee " the poor innocent victims if unfair trial that he found necessary to mention.(Starting to think that the case that cause the essay is that alleged unfair trial.)And trials are done only by Government Institutions ,IIRC .
BWD: Point one. Abused Gurukulis and the abused children of Iskcon and its life members are not 'random' Internet vigilantes, out to take down Lord Chaitanya's movement. Point two. Gurukulis are advocating for a fair trial and investigation, which is the purpose of the ICPO.
PDD: This is not unreasonable if it was done 50, 40, 30, 20,10 or even 5 years ago, time for talk is over, talk is cheap now, ZERO tolerance for child abuse, child abuser and for people who cover up and support it, CHILD ABUSE IS AND WILL ALWAYS BE VAISHNAVA APARADHA!
S Dasi: In 1997 the GBC RESOLVED:
"[LAW] 501. THAT the GBC Body hereby declares that the International Society for Krishna Consciousness does not condone abuse of any kind, especially that which is directed towards dependents such as women, children, aged and cows. Battery, verbal and emotional abuse are destructive to the devotional creeper and thus considered serious Vaisnava aparadhas. Any attempt to justify this type of abusive mentality on the basis of sastra is misconstrued and is firmly rejected by all practicing Vaisnavas." https://gbc.iskcon.org/1997
1997 – ISKCON GBC
GBC.ISKCON.ORG
1997 – ISKCON GBC
1997 – ISKCON GBC
· Reply · 11h
SF Dasi: Does anyone knows what is that all about : " ..>> " been egregiously violated. Thus a devotee’s life was ruined without a fair trial.
I have no intention of.... <<.Who is that "devotee " the poor innocent victims if unfair trial that he found necessary to mention.(Starting to think that the case that cause the essay is that alleged unfair trial.)And trials are done only by Government Institutions ,IIRC .
BWD: Point one. Abused Gurukulis and the abused children of Iskcon and its life members are not 'random' Internet vigilantes, out to take down Lord Chaitanya's movement. Point two. Gurukulis are advocating for a fair trial and investigation, which is the purpose of the ICPO.
Point three. The GBC retracted their own decision on May 12th to have this handled by the ICPO, thus ending the possibility of a fair trial. And how many times have we seen the GBC's rulings not have any serious repercussions for abuse? Is it any wonder that the devotee diaspora are even more agitated and vociferous when the leaders do not follow the adjudication rules they set?
And lastly what scripture are people basing their opinions on - that Vaishnava child abuse is not the most serious of all Vaishnava Aparadha and thus only forgivable by its victims. And just to reiterate the sparing of Ashvathama's life was actually much worse than killing him, as he will continue to roam till the end of Kali Yuga shunned by all.
ASM: Exactly!!
ASM: Exactly!!
BDC: That first sentence exposes them all knowing full well what the subject is there is only one incident where a young Devotee was abused in our Scriptures and it culminated into a new avatar half man half lion the death and destruction of every one of his followers and eventual garland in his intestines around God's neck, what to speak of raped and molesting?
These people are disgusting. Even lifelong prisoners who rape and murder know what the punishment should be for abusing children. If these guys went to prison, they would be the lowest of the whole group, and all the other prisoners would want to get justice for their victims.
PADA: Wow. First we had Tamal sued in Dallas for several million dollars around 1987. Then the GBC folks told me, if there are any further problems, take us to court and sue us (again). Then we said fine, we will sue if that is the only option, and they were sued for $400,000,000. So clearly, they do not want to have "a discussion" -- or none of these court cases would have been required? Why would they say, we are not going to discuss, sue us, in the first place? Then, they declared bankrupted, because evidently they would rather be bankrupted than -- have a discussion? Then the GBC was upset when they sued Bangalore, and we helped their case with documents, and evidently that has cost both sides $20,000,000 each. Where is the debate and discussion going on? I must be missing something? Then the Jayapataka people wrote and told me I am a demon who has cost ISKCON $100,000,000 in lawsuits, but wait, you guys said you wanted to be in court? ys pd
ASM: It shouldn't have to take all of these legal battles for leaders to see their flaws... this is supposedly to be a religious society with highest moral standards... why are we even debating whether or not a leader should be accountable for his crime? So tired of their shameful attempts to hide their abusive standards.
TBD: The ping pong guru! I wanna play ping pong, can I join his sanga!?!? What a joke. Why aren't they least like Hansadutta (who they all talk so badly about), who least could figure out he was doing wrong, admit it, and say sorry? He never touched someone like that anyways either. All his "falldowns" weren't really like that afaik. He also says japa mala were given to India by the Cathoics.
TP Dasi: Funny. I saw Maharaj last week and he did NOT have Tulasi neck beads on.
SRD: Maharaj talks of "massive evidence that fair process had been egregiously violated". He doesn't consider the possibility that perhaps the leaders didn't share his opinion that the adjudication was flawed and didn't give the same weight to the said 'evidence'...
Instead of taking this opportunity to speak out in support of child protection, HDG positions himself as the victim and laments the hardships he has endured.
PTD: These ISKCON "gurus" should be ashamed of themselves. After 43 years, they haven't initiated even one famous person!
S Dasa: Another way of looking at it: the brahmanas, (the truthful, honest Vaishnavas/Vaishnavis) are trying to deal with child abusers correctly, but the ICC and GBC’s actions to block and bury appear vigilante with a thirst to lynch anyone speaking the truth
R Dasi: He protected Lakshmimoni along with Brahmatirtha & Radhanath. Acaryadeva says he is pro protection of children, but that's Bull crap. He is a child abuser protector. FYI. Don't be fooled by his call for justice now.
PADA: Yep JD. Thousands and thousands of devotees were removed, exiled, banned, vilified, demonized, some were beaten, some were killed. The GBC guru folks had to remove these "family conscious" devotees -- so they could make way for their homosexual and pedophile "renunciates" nightmare program for children.
ReplyDeleteThen, evidently thousands of children were molested. Then, ISKCON was sued and bankrupted. And that is just a teeny summary of the problems these guys made for the devotees, their children, for ISKCON, and thereby, they made all these problems -- for Krishna.
Now Krishna is left holding the bag of their giant sh*t show. So all told, they made a mockery and mess out of God's personal program to save humanity. That means: humanity has had to suffer; the devotees have had to suffer, the children have had to suffer, ISKCON has had to suffer, Krishna has had to suffer seeing His movement made into a giant sh*t show, all so they could make a homosexual and pedophile sh*t show guru program and destroy ISKCON and its citizens.
This will be discussed by current and future cyber vigilantes for hundreds of years to come, and these leaders will be infamous as dangerous asuras. This is only getting started, these histories will be recorded and re-recorded, collated, organized and re-stated over and over in many places. And that does not include, Yamaraja has all this recorded as well. ys pd angel108b@yahoo.com