Torben Nielsen has now emerged as Rocana's biggest defender and article writer. Torben now says there is "no evidence" Rocana has supported the GBC's "institutional gurus." Fine. Except, Rocana has been a member of the GBC's "50 man guru reform" committee way back in the 1980s, which created the whole "guru voting" (institutional rubber stamped guru) program in 1986 in the first place.
Yep! Rocana is thus a co-founder father / co-architect of the "voted in" GBC's institutional guru program. Yet Torben says Rocana has no connection to this institutional guru process, when in fact Rocana is one of the original founder fathers of that process. And as we all know, that process helped create their illicit behavior and sexual predator guru's parampara. That means the GBC / Rocana program has a long way to go to produce even standard institutional gurus, for example the mayavada institutional gurus are not manifesting debauchee behaviors.
The "50 man guru reformers" indeed not only voted in a bunch of bogus institutional gurus in 1986, they extended their plan -- that they would vote in many more in future (as they do even now). The 1986 "reformers" also reinstated Bhavananda as their acharya, and excommunicated Sulochana. OK the "reformers" helped reinstate their "sex with taxi driver's" pada acharya, and helped repress Sulochana (which lead to Sulochana being murdered shortly after).
Of course Rocana's ilk have consistently repressed us all along, and still do. Did we forget to mention, that by suppressing Sulochana / backing and promoting Kirtanananda and Bhavananda, this de facto caused Sulochana's death by making him "an offender." A number of people say the reformers have his blood on their hands for painting Sulochana in this way? And this is the program Torben endorses?
And ever since 1986 Rocana has ALL ALONG promoted the institutional guru idea, that the GBC will vote in and vote out members (i.e. gurus) as found in his recent "ISKCON constitution":
https://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2015/05/rocana-extends-gbc-guru-voting.html
Yet Torben says he is unaware of Rocana's "constitution," and he claims to have never read it. So Torben is promoting Rocana's site, and becoming the main writer / contributor to that site, without even reading the contents? Yes, Rocana promoted the idea that the GBC will "make and manage" gurus, and he has been with that idea all along. And his so-called constitution PROVES he still promotes the GBC and their guru voting / managing / monitoring / censuring etc. shennanigans.
Rocana has said that we simply need to tighten up the controls and GBC's "rule enforcement" for their wayward gurus. Yep, we need a bigger paddle to spank down their wayward messiahs! OK, who placed the GBC / Rocana in charge of monitoring the successors to God? Never answered!
In sum, there is not a "false guru problem," there is an "enforcement of deviating gurus problem." Yep! The GBC is "too slow to implement ISKCON's lawbook rules for gurus" -- and that is the problem. Worship of bank robbers is not the problem, the police needing to get to the bank faster to monitor and correct the robbers is the problem.
And that is going to fix the problem?
Except, gurus are NOT deviating and would then NOT be in need of GBC fixing and monitoring? What kind of guru needs to be monitored by a committee? And if the GBC's "guru management committee" creates huge deviations, for example reinstates sex with taxi drivers as their acharyas, why would Rocana want himself or anyone else to be part of such a bogus committee process? And why would Torben promote this process by promoting Rocana?
Torben says any Prabhupada disciple can become a diksha guru. Right, well anyone can become a pure devotee, but the parampara has only 32 members listed for a period of 5,000 years. Its rare that anyone becomes a pure devotee readily. Generally this takes lifetimes, perhaps many.
Yes, Torben has been sending me links to Rocana, who has been the biggest cheer leader of these neophyte gurus since 1978. The Rocana system censures, suspends and monitors their neophyte gurus, which is proof they are making neophytes into gurus. Yes, Torben has sent me links to that site a number of times.
So Torben thinks there will be a guru, and he and Rocana will be following their "ISKCON constitution" and censuring and chastising their gurus. Yep, Torben is the boss of the acharyas along with Rocana. In other words Torben and Rocana think they are the head masters of the acharyas' classroom, and that is why Torben sends me links to the main exponent of that process.
Their gurus need "2/3 show of hands voting in," with subsequent correcting, monitoring, censuring, suspending etc. and Torben sends me links to these folks; And then he says this is not an institutional guru process? OK, but a guru who needs to be censured for deviations is a conditioned soul. OK that means Torben is supporting the institutional / CONDITIONED SOUL guru process, and its chief creator / co-founder / cheer leader ... Rocana.
Then Torben says he wants original books. No, he says that the people who sued the GBC to get original books are bogus ritviks, and that the ritvik program is offensive and needs to be dismantled. OK, so the people who got the rights to print originals, and they are printing and distributing originals, needs to be dismantled. That means he wants to dismantle the program that is getting the rights to originals, and is printing and distributing originals. Meanwhile Torben and Rocana are NOT printing and distributing originals on the scale the Prabhupadanugas are doing. So its clear, Torben wants to SUPPRESS the originals, just like the GBC.
Then Torben says Srila Prabhupada is the guru of everyone, but he is not the "official" guru of everyone. And the official guru is, well then Torben says -- we are too nosy to even ask, its not our business, and we have no need to know. So there is an official guru, but there is no need to know who he is?
How do we know that Torben is not himself the official guru of the program he claims to part of? He won't say who it is, how do we know its not himself? There is a guru who can save the world, but we cannot tell others who it is. OK, so you have no interest in saving the world.
Anyway, the Rocana 50 man committee program eventually voted in Jayadvaita, and he was then made their main writer / editor. And this has nothing to do with the book changes? Sorry, this has everything to do with these changes. Yet Torben says Rocana's guru reform program to promote Jayadvaita as their star writer / editor has no bearing on these books changes? How is that possible? Anyway, people are always trying to re-write this history, good luck! Problem is, too many folks already know it.
http://krishna1008.blogspot.co.at/2017/09/rocana-repair-and-managing-of-acharyas.html
ys pd
Yep! Rocana is thus a co-founder father / co-architect of the "voted in" GBC's institutional guru program. Yet Torben says Rocana has no connection to this institutional guru process, when in fact Rocana is one of the original founder fathers of that process. And as we all know, that process helped create their illicit behavior and sexual predator guru's parampara. That means the GBC / Rocana program has a long way to go to produce even standard institutional gurus, for example the mayavada institutional gurus are not manifesting debauchee behaviors.
The "50 man guru reformers" indeed not only voted in a bunch of bogus institutional gurus in 1986, they extended their plan -- that they would vote in many more in future (as they do even now). The 1986 "reformers" also reinstated Bhavananda as their acharya, and excommunicated Sulochana. OK the "reformers" helped reinstate their "sex with taxi driver's" pada acharya, and helped repress Sulochana (which lead to Sulochana being murdered shortly after).
Of course Rocana's ilk have consistently repressed us all along, and still do. Did we forget to mention, that by suppressing Sulochana / backing and promoting Kirtanananda and Bhavananda, this de facto caused Sulochana's death by making him "an offender." A number of people say the reformers have his blood on their hands for painting Sulochana in this way? And this is the program Torben endorses?
And ever since 1986 Rocana has ALL ALONG promoted the institutional guru idea, that the GBC will vote in and vote out members (i.e. gurus) as found in his recent "ISKCON constitution":
https://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2015/05/rocana-extends-gbc-guru-voting.html
Yet Torben says he is unaware of Rocana's "constitution," and he claims to have never read it. So Torben is promoting Rocana's site, and becoming the main writer / contributor to that site, without even reading the contents? Yes, Rocana promoted the idea that the GBC will "make and manage" gurus, and he has been with that idea all along. And his so-called constitution PROVES he still promotes the GBC and their guru voting / managing / monitoring / censuring etc. shennanigans.
Rocana has said that we simply need to tighten up the controls and GBC's "rule enforcement" for their wayward gurus. Yep, we need a bigger paddle to spank down their wayward messiahs! OK, who placed the GBC / Rocana in charge of monitoring the successors to God? Never answered!
In sum, there is not a "false guru problem," there is an "enforcement of deviating gurus problem." Yep! The GBC is "too slow to implement ISKCON's lawbook rules for gurus" -- and that is the problem. Worship of bank robbers is not the problem, the police needing to get to the bank faster to monitor and correct the robbers is the problem.
And that is going to fix the problem?
Except, gurus are NOT deviating and would then NOT be in need of GBC fixing and monitoring? What kind of guru needs to be monitored by a committee? And if the GBC's "guru management committee" creates huge deviations, for example reinstates sex with taxi drivers as their acharyas, why would Rocana want himself or anyone else to be part of such a bogus committee process? And why would Torben promote this process by promoting Rocana?
Torben says any Prabhupada disciple can become a diksha guru. Right, well anyone can become a pure devotee, but the parampara has only 32 members listed for a period of 5,000 years. Its rare that anyone becomes a pure devotee readily. Generally this takes lifetimes, perhaps many.
Yes, Torben has been sending me links to Rocana, who has been the biggest cheer leader of these neophyte gurus since 1978. The Rocana system censures, suspends and monitors their neophyte gurus, which is proof they are making neophytes into gurus. Yes, Torben has sent me links to that site a number of times.
So Torben thinks there will be a guru, and he and Rocana will be following their "ISKCON constitution" and censuring and chastising their gurus. Yep, Torben is the boss of the acharyas along with Rocana. In other words Torben and Rocana think they are the head masters of the acharyas' classroom, and that is why Torben sends me links to the main exponent of that process.
Their gurus need "2/3 show of hands voting in," with subsequent correcting, monitoring, censuring, suspending etc. and Torben sends me links to these folks; And then he says this is not an institutional guru process? OK, but a guru who needs to be censured for deviations is a conditioned soul. OK that means Torben is supporting the institutional / CONDITIONED SOUL guru process, and its chief creator / co-founder / cheer leader ... Rocana.
Then Torben says he wants original books. No, he says that the people who sued the GBC to get original books are bogus ritviks, and that the ritvik program is offensive and needs to be dismantled. OK, so the people who got the rights to print originals, and they are printing and distributing originals, needs to be dismantled. That means he wants to dismantle the program that is getting the rights to originals, and is printing and distributing originals. Meanwhile Torben and Rocana are NOT printing and distributing originals on the scale the Prabhupadanugas are doing. So its clear, Torben wants to SUPPRESS the originals, just like the GBC.
Then Torben says Srila Prabhupada is the guru of everyone, but he is not the "official" guru of everyone. And the official guru is, well then Torben says -- we are too nosy to even ask, its not our business, and we have no need to know. So there is an official guru, but there is no need to know who he is?
How do we know that Torben is not himself the official guru of the program he claims to part of? He won't say who it is, how do we know its not himself? There is a guru who can save the world, but we cannot tell others who it is. OK, so you have no interest in saving the world.
Anyway, the Rocana 50 man committee program eventually voted in Jayadvaita, and he was then made their main writer / editor. And this has nothing to do with the book changes? Sorry, this has everything to do with these changes. Yet Torben says Rocana's guru reform program to promote Jayadvaita as their star writer / editor has no bearing on these books changes? How is that possible? Anyway, people are always trying to re-write this history, good luck! Problem is, too many folks already know it.
http://krishna1008.blogspot.co.at/2017/09/rocana-repair-and-managing-of-acharyas.html
ys pd
[PS: This all started because we were discussing Rocana's other clone Hanuman Croatia]
Rocana has been a co-founder father / advocate of the 50 man committee that created the guru voting, i.e. institutional gurus. And he still says in his constitution / advocates that this GBC voting process will continue. And the gurus the Rocana reformers program "voted in" / advocated engaged in illicit sex with men, women and children, created molesting, and they orchestrated murdered dissenters. His program cannot even find good institutional gurus to advocate for. Why does Torben support / advocate one of the founder fathers of the bogus guru voting institutional guru program, that we had to sue for $400,000,000 for abuse? Its easy to see who advocates this bogus guru voting program, which has to be sued for abuse and book changing, and who advocates for Rocana, its you. Its also east to see who advocates against worship of pure devotees, and the people who print original books, it's Rocana and his big cheer leader, yourself Torben. Rocana says in his constitution the GBC voting process he concocted in 1986 will continue, read it. ys pd
ReplyDeletehttp://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/05-15/editorials12776.htm
ReplyDeleteRocana's constitution which continues guru voting and a judicial committee to address deviations by GBC members (gurus). He is promoting exactly what the GBC does now, because he is one of the founders of the 1986 guru reform, which says gurus need reform, voting in, voting out, judicial watch etc. ys pd