NONE SO BLIND AS THOSE WHO WILL NOT SEE
RESPONSE TO MAYESWARA's POISON "ANTIDOTE"
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NONE SO BLIND AS THOSE WHO WILL NOT SEE
By Nityananda das
“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” (John Adams)
Some individuals are disseminating the little known 1977 statements and discussions by and with Srila Prabhupada about his being poisoned, along with scientific forensic tests on hair samples and audio recordings. They bring forward other evidences such as witnesses; medical symptom analysis; discussion of motive; institutional obstruction, fraud and deceit; the long and worsening history of deviations and corruption in ISKCON; why certain persons are suspected in this poisoning; and shastric quotes to counter objections that a pure devotee could be poisoned. The evidence is conclusive that Srila Prabhupada was maliciously poisoned in 1977, and he confirmed this himself.
There are others who insist that these evidence messengers are themselves mind-poisoners by delivering what they claim is a false message. They speak of a “poison antidote” by criticizing what they characterize as an envious and disturbed mentality. They nitpick the poisoning evidence with their cleverly jumbled misrepresentations, and ignore the basic facts. They may allude to an imaginary fault, and thus they proclaim the entire “poison theory” as null and void, claiming there is no evidence at all.
In October 2017 Mayeswara das of Ojai, California compiled a supposed rebuttal to the “poison theory.” His 80 page e-book claims that his work is “completely independent” and that he is “no GBC patsy,” however, from emails to his wife, it appears “…that the GBC, it seems, has now 'commissioned' your husband…” But whether Mayeswara’s “Poison Conspiracy Antidote” is inspired by the GBC or not, Mayeswara also makes it abundantly clear that he is not exactly inspired by the GBC either.
Mayeswara Das (Ojai)
*** “I am […] in no way a fan of any bad decisions we have all had to endure from ISKCON leadership for the last 40 years. I have stood up to injustice, and in doing so, had to endure unfair encounters with some leaders who fabricated things.
... [...] Attempted to bribe me with privileges and perks if I would agree to cover up…
*** I was assaulted with horrible obscenities…
[...] If I was still in the temple the next morning, I would be tossed into the street and beaten.
[…] What I got was the betrayal of the local GBC Guru… Srila Prabhupada's disciples were cast out to the tundra, ISKCON youth got so badly neglected…”
So, although Mayeswara probably was GBC “commissioned” or encouraged to write his “antidote” booklet, and while he claims to be completely independent and “neutral,” he also has had very bad experiences with ISKCON and the GBC. But he still cannot grasp the possibility that the GBC has covered up the poison evidence and confused everyone about it with denials, distortions, and deceit.
And, as we shall see, although being so-called “neutral,” he also denies, distorts, and deceives by repeating the same untruths found in the GBC’s 17 year old book Not That I Am Poisoned.
Then he adds into his “rebuttal bluff” many yellow journalistic cartoons which are mockingly distasteful, plus a travesty of “scientific” conclusions that are even rejected by his own quoted references. Many devotees have commented that there is nothing new in his work, and that they were unimpressed with his “antidote.” It is, as usual for ISKCON and its supporters, all bluff, smoke and mirrors, and misleading sound bites. If you look at it, look at it carefully to see the patterns of deceit.
He has misrepresented the facts and evidence, twisted things around, even totally backwards, and creates a whirlwind of falsehoods intended to confuse us, give us a short-circuiting overload of doubts, so we will tune out this ultra-important historical and spiritual issue: Was Srila Prabhupada really maliciously poisoned, and if so, who did it?
As done by the GBC before him, Mayeswara will fool only the ill-informed, but as devotees are learning more about the actual facts, 1977 conversations, poisoning evidence, and scientific tests, increasingly less persons are being tricked by these politics of deceit.
Mayeswara’s wife also wrote that her husband was the true scientist and defender of truth:
“Besides other things his conclusions are also based on scientific research that the majority of this so called evidence is so unprofessional and forced that all he feels an objective individual with no covert agenda can really do is laugh at it.”
Up is down and down is up; this is the confusion of the world of lies in which we live today. But we will assert that it is actually HIS conclusions that are fraudulently UN-scientific, unprofessional, and laughable. Apologies, but his descriptions fit himself best.
His strategy is the same as that of the GBC in the past: simply pronounce one segment after another of the evidence to be flawed in some way, even if by insinuation only. Neti, neti… not this, not that. It is a cheating method to avoid the obvious bigger picture of evidence, which, if taken all together, is overwhelmingly convincing.
Sure, there is a 0.0001% chance that in some way maybe each piece of evidence may be invalid - nothing is impossible, after all. But with so many pieces of evidence, each multiplied by 0.0001%... it becomes one chance out of billions that Srila Prabhupada’s poisoning evidence would be all a coincidental assemblage that is actually something innocuous. This is the technique of the ill-motivated deniers: to cause nagging doubts. And running through Mayeswara’s booklet, we find a distinct pattern of doubt-manufacturing. Honest persons approach issues differently, without predisposed conclusions, motivated agendas, or argumentative layering of doubts.
So let’s examine his main points by which he claims the “poison conspiracy” is denigrated. To see points regarding cadmium, start at #25.
(1). “Those seeking vengeance for all the past transgressions feeling compelled to stop the GBC Kings. To do so they cleverly devised the "Who Poisoned Prabhupada” conspiracy knowing that it would have far more disruptive consequences than just introducing some new philosophical controversy.” (pg. 9)
REPLY: This is the accusation that “poison theorists” concocted something out of nothing because they wanted “vengeance” with “more disruptive consequences.” This is standard propaganda methodology: to paint the adversary as having a different agenda than what he speaks to; in other words, the poison theory is not about the poisoning evidence, but about us guessing their hidden motives… The truth is simply that many devotees are sincerely and genuinely disturbed by the evidence that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned, and will not take kindly that their concern is thus characterized as an evil intention.
The Truth Committee has compiled this evidence, not created it. For example, Naveen Krishna and Balavanta were GBC members, but resigned out of disgust with how the poison evidence was covered-up by the GBC body. They concocted this controversy to get themselves off the GBC body?
(2). “Here was an opportunity to unleash a tsunami of doubt, intrigue, and suspicion at the very top of ISKCON management.” (pg. 9)
REPLY: In actuality, the level of doubts and suspicion in the GBC body is at a very low level already, and does not require a “poison theory” to accomplish what the GBC themselves have done to their own reputation, namely, completely eviscerate it. Back in the late nineties, a devotee poll showed a 19% approval rating of the GBC- a level that no US president has ever achieved. Of course, the GBC decision to deny all the poisoning evidence and obstruct any honest investigation only undermined their reputation further, and not because of those who pressed for full discovery of the truth in the matter.
(3). “The vile idea that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned by his top disciples became the acorn which fell on the head of Chicken Little.” (pg. 9)
REPLY: This very un-scientific evaluation is infantile and sickening simultaneously.
(4). “Conspiracy theories help insecure individuals cope with distressing events, as it offers the frail a way to make sense out of difficult circumstances.” (pg.10)
REPLY: Now Mayeswara will be psychoanalyzing the “poison theorists,” explaining their frailties and insecurities… Thanks, but no thanks.
(5). “To accuse anyone of conspiring to poison another human being with little more than rumors, controversial whispers, unconfirmed lab studies on suspicious evidence is so blatantly reckless that those who are not blinded by their own negative conditioning will be quick to dismiss this scandal.” (pg. 10)
REPLY: Here we see his minimization of the evidence, following the example of the GBC deniers. But simple denying does not invalidate that evidence. It stands on its own merits when examined.
(6). “The association with the racist bigot Harry Barnes pretty much reveals exactly what we are dealing with here. Behind a very thin veil of a not so convincing scholarly patina, we find an extremely deviant agenda.” (pg. 11)
REPLY: Barnes was once highly regarded as a prodigious scholar and historian, and in this context the book Kill Guru Become Guru referred to the term “revisionism” which was coined by Barnes. We simply want to set history straight with the facts and truth, and know nothing of anything else from Barnes. But Mayeswara claims we have endorsed all of Barnes’ other work (such as Holocaust denial), which we were unaware of. Throughout his booklet he unfairly associates us with “the bigot Barnes.”
(7). “On one side, we find a 13-year-old boy doing simple janitor work; on the other side, there is an entire institution of individuals who have organized huge preaching projects, overseen massive book publications, and commanded Akshauhini’s of sankirtan forces…” (pg.12)
REPLY: Here he speaks about the worthlessness of the Mexican gurukuli who claims to have overheard senior men discussing Prabhupada’s poisoning in late 1977. He simplifies the situation by asserting lesser credibility to the “janitor,” as though evidence is verified by one’s social status. The Mexican witness is only a part of the massive body of evidence, but he discredits many pieces by saying, “Isn’t it ludicrous to put all our faith in a couple of young boys?” Yes, razz, ridicule, jeer- so scientific!
(8). He quotes from a letter from Abhirama das, one of Srila Prabhupada’s 1977 caretakers: (pg. 12)
“If they ever were actually serious to investigate, why did they not contact me, ever?
REPLY: Well, we did contact Abhirama in June 2017 and we had a friendly exchange in which we assured him he was not considered a poison suspect, his deep affection for Srila Prabhupada was not questioned, and he agreed to look at the cadmium and other evidence with an open mind.
(9). “Even more to the point is [Abhiram’s] personal testimony that confirms he often ate Srila Prabhupada’s remnants and never suffered from any ill effects.” (pg. 12)
REPLY: Here is an erroneous assumption- that because Abhirama often ate some of Srila Prabhupada’s mahaprasad, therefore Srila Prabhupada was not poisoned, as though the mahaprasad was the only possible route of administering poison. Would a poisoner be so dumb as to poison many devotees while also poisoning Srila Prabhupada, thus exposing his game? Of course not! A poisoner would carefully choose a route for poisoning which would not be shared with others.
(10). “Listed here is the proof of how callously indifferent the truth detectives can be regarding the good counsel of other more prudent and mature devotees.” (pg. 13)
REPLY: He lists 9 items of “ruthless agenda” by nitpicking on details out of context, such as quoting devotees who had been interviewed without getting their written permission, even though no confidence was given or requested. Also, as expected, he refers to the reverse speech studies done by Dhanesvara das in 1999, something which has been clearly disassociated from the updated 2017 compilation of evidence which he conveniently overlooked in Ch. 91. This is selective dishonesty.
(11). “We are asked to believe their lust for immediate power was so strong that they plotted to murder His Divine Grace by poisoning him with cadmium.” (Pg. 15)
REPLY: Yes, actually, this is the rationale for poisoning someone, namely to gain something from the death of the victim. In this case it would be to sit on Srila Prabhupada’s seat as the next acharya, which is exactly what they, suspects included, did do immediately after Srila Prabhupada departed. Is this really so hard to understand for one who knows the ISKCON history of these men from 1977-1987?
(12). “To suggest that Srila Prabhupada felt like he was being poisoned by his most trusted men implies that he didn’t even have enough common sense to immediately send anyone away he did not trust. …he could summon mystic powers and know who was betraying him, as Jesus knew it was Judas. Yet, we would then have to assume Srila Prabhupada just went along with it? Why would he do that? If Srila Prabhupada knew he was being poisoned, he was empowered with divine wisdom, and certainly could have outsmarted his envious disciples. Srila Prabhupada is offensively portrayed like a confused martyr, who was willing to sacrifice his own life because he was so tolerant, compassionate…” (pg. 15-16)
REPLY: Mayeswara assumes his philosophical interpretation negates the possibility of Srila Prabhupada being poisoned. This is a common objection, that Srila Prabhupada would have saved himself from poisoners and stopped them. Yet Jesus Christ, a pure devotee, did not protest his crucifixion, even carrying his own cross up to Calvary. Christ could have employed his mystic powers to save himself, but did not. Did Haridas Thakur stop the soldiers from whipping him? No, he agreed to die if his life would inconvenience them! So what is the difficulty in appreciating that Srila Prabhupada knew he was being poisoned, confirmed by himself saying that he was being poisoned, and not resisting or protesting? Did Prahlad fight when thrown into the boiling oil? Obviously, Srila Prabhupada’s mission was accomplished and he decided to depart at that time. The poisoning was not the cause of his death, but was coincidental as part of his disappearance pastimes.
(13). “…Prabhupada's total commitment to his preaching effort …He wouldn’t be so short-sighted to let a few so-called very devious converts have their way with him. This is especially true for Tamal Krishna Goswami, who had felt the hammer of Srila Prabhupada's anger before… If he had any suspicions about Tamal Krishna, he could have easily had him removed…” (pg. 16)
REPLY: The shastra cautions that no one can understand the mind of the acharya. We do not know why Srila Prabhupada accepted his poisoning, even choosing not to answer Tamal when asked who was poisoning him. Perhaps his mission was completed and it was time to go elsewhere. It is a mistake and presumptuous to declare what Srila Prabhupada should have done when he knew he was being poisoned, which he clearly knew as evidenced from the recorded conversations.
(14). “Overwhelming … with a mountain of paperwork is an effective sleazy, legal tactic.” (pg. 17)
imageREPLY: Here he complains that we have presented a mountain of paperwork and he quotes WC Fields: “If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” He insults the intelligence of so many devotees who appreciate the evidence as seriously conclusive and very substantial, and not as BS. Why else did he have to write his “rebuttal” if not for many devotees taking the evidence seriously?
(15). Mayeswara uses ridiculous photos that supposedly discredits the poisoning facts and evidence, such as this one with the KKK from the 1950’s. This is his problem: if a logical counter argument can't be waged, then resort to deformation of character. Throughout his booklet we did not find any logical or sound counter arguments. He plays the psychoanalyst as well: “Such extreme behavior is confirmed by those who study the mentality of individuals who rely on conspiracies to make up for the lack of accomplishment or control in their own lives.” (pg. 17-18) He also compares the “poison theory” to holocaust denial with yet another cartoon, claiming we want to “change history”… Sorry to say this, but Mayeswara seems a little bit wacky with some loose screws…
(16). “The Truth Committee leads us to believe there were widespread rumors about Srila Prabhupada being poisoned right from the first day he departed. Yet, those rumors never surfaced in Vrindavan where the crimes were allegedly committed.” (pg. 18)
REPLY: The Truth Committee does not rely on any rumors as proof, so why does he say this? And because he did not hear them, then there were none?
(17). “There is no doubt that these men still had a lot to learn and grow as true leaders and saints and they may have even done some disgraceful things along the way because they were not perfected human beings… but they also most certainly were not killers!” (pg. 20-21)
REPLY: Here Mayeswara das repeats another common objection; that senior disciples could not have possibly poisoned Srila Prabhupada because they loved him so much and would have given their lives for him. Is it inconceivable that Tamal and others could have poisoned Srila Prabhupada? Apparently for some it is, but for many others it is very plausible, especially after examining Part Seven of Kill Guru Become Guru with the real Tamal as evidence and actual history. How can one dismiss Tamal’s very incriminating “mercy-killing” interview, which is a virtual poisoning confession. The full taped interview is posted at www.killgurubecomeguru.org Poisonings are very common and most often done by someone very close to the victim, someone that everyone else would never have suspected.
(18). “If you read this entire paper you will learn that it was completely impossible for Srila Prabhupada to have been poisoned by cadmium!” (pg. 21)
REPLY: This is one of his craziest statements, as though his wild pronouncements make any difference to the truth as established by scientific tests and many expert opinions. He contests the scientific world with his own version of scientific interpretations! More specifics further on.
(19). “…phrases they believe are communications coming from disembodied ghosts and spirits. Once the Truth team found some good monde#E0FFE0s that could be interpreted as the word "poison", all they had to do was plant the suggestion in the minds of those wandering on the dark side and -whamo… yea… I can hear it! Someone is whispering “Is the poison going down.” (pg. 21)
REPLY: Having at least skimmed some of the books on this matter, Mayeswara should have seen that it was not just hundreds of devotees who agreed on the general content of the poison whispers, but also that five prominent, qualified audio forenic specialists or laboratories confirmed them as being about poisoning. One lab recommended a homicide investigator and forensic toxicologist should be consulted. There were multi-confirmations and certifications that these whispers were about poisoning, yet Mayeswara warns about “wandering on the dark side…” The reason that audio experts were consulted was to avoid what people “thought” they were hearing and determine what was actually being said via the science of audio forensics. We should trust these scientific experts well before we trust Mayeswara with his denials. Of course, he never tells us what the poison whispers really are!
(20). “The only place that Srila Prabhupada asserts himself clearly in regards to the poison issue comes up when Tamala Krishna directly asks him ‘it is said that you were poisoned.’ Srila Prabhupada immediately answered ‘No. Not that I am poisoned.’” (pg. 24)
REPLY: Here the GBC’s rearranging of the conversation is again employed: the actual narrative is: “No. This kind of symptoms are seen when a man is poisoned. He said like that. Not that I am poisoned.” (Nov. 9, 1977) Tamal asked what someone else had said, and Srila Prabhupada replied that someone “said like that,” namely that someone spoke about symptoms, not poisoning. Srila Prabhupada did not deny his poisoning and himself spoke about actual poisoning earlier that day and AGAIN the following morning. By reading the actual conversations, it is seen that the GBC deception about “no poison” is a cover-up. These conversations are available at: www.killgurubecomeguru.org
(21). Pages 25-28: Mayeswara pathetically attempts to discredit the audio evidence further by claiming that the forensic laboratories employed were frauds, nincompoops, or bribed, etc… He suggests that the Truth Committee has been smoking marijuana. And he dismisses the “poison theory” with this defective logic: that poisoners would never be so dumb as to allow themselves to be recorded while speaking about their crime. Unless, of course, they thought that the recorder was off or would not pick up their whispering in the background… Why else would they be whispering if not to conceal their words?
(22). Page 28. Mayeswara claims that cadmium poisoning is only possible by inhalation, but this is not true. Oral ingestion is the obvious avenue for intentional cadmium poisoning. Pure cadmium would not be used, but rather a cadmium salt, such as cadmium chloride, which is water soluble, odorless, colorless, and tasteless. His science is totally off…
(23). “Still, too much prevarication seeping in from those too haughty to just admit that Reverse Speech analysis is not being used by ANY law enforcement for ANY reason because it is disregarded as sophomoric bunk.” (pg. 30)
REPLY: Yes, it was a mistake 20 years ago to include Dhaneshwara’s reverse speech work in our first book. Our 2017 book disavows reverse speech as evidence, although the CIA does, contrary to assertions above. We do have great interest in more developed methods of truth ascertainment such as voice stress analysis, used by thousands of law enforcement agencies worldwide. Mayeswara keeps looking for things to ridicule while bypassing the substantial evidence that he doesn’t want to see, such as Srila Prabhupada’s caretaker discussions about homicidal poisoning on Nov. 11, 1977.
(24). The Antidote booklet claims that we have used the poisoning of Napoleon to prove that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned. This is untrue. Reference was made to Napoleon because high levels of arsenic were found in his hair samples 150 years after his death. Reading about Napoleon’s hair tests inspired us to test Srila Prabhupada’s hair samples, by which his poisoning was scientifically confirmed. Tests on Srila Prabhupada’s hair samples have similarly found very high levels of cadmium.
“Like for example how they present Napoleon, who they allegedly portray as having also been poisoned by his inside men. This very historic example is the best the Truth Team can come up with to substantiate how Srila Prabhupada was actually poisoned.”
Mayeswara is a master of baseless ridicule, so better to call him the Joker.
C:\Users\user\Desktop\FILES TO KGBG BOOK\MEDICAL\Death Certificate.jpg(25). “Truth is the coroner diagnosed the cause of death as kidney problems due to diabetes.” (pg. 30)
REPLY: Untrue. The Vrindaban coroner stated the cause of death was “heart attack,” and this death certificate is in our book, which the Joker must have missed. The Vrindaban coroner never came to do any autopsy. No test results now exist, nor are any specifically remembered by anyone, which would have determined the extent of Srila Prabhupada’s diabetes, kidney disease, or what the cause of death was. Thus we are not contradicting any determination of any medical tests by concluding from the evidence that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned with cadmium. But in 2002-2005 Dr. Morris performed highly reliable scientific NAA hair tests that found lethal levels of cadmium. The Joker, calling us Goofy, does not know what the coroner stated, and speaks of it in error!
(26). On page 30, the Joker says we “backtracked” on our arsenic conclusion and substituted cadmium instead. The truth is that initial testing found arsenic 20 X normal, which the Delaware Chief Medical Examiner stated would be a substantial contributing factor to the demise of an elderly and ill person. Later tests found cadmium to be present 250 X normal; so both heavy metals were abnormal. Because the private investigation found new information later, does not indicate cheating or story-making, as the Joker proposes. Srila Prabhupada was poisoned primarily by cadmium, and secondarily by arsenic.
(27). On page 31, the Joker says that since cadmium is an unusual murder poison, and there are few historical examples of its use, therefore the idea that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned with it is “pathetic.” Yet that is exactly what Dr. Morris’ three separate hair tests have determined. The Joker is also a very rare and unique person, not to be found elsewhere, and thus he also is “pathetic”? Rarity does not invalidate; it simply signifies exceptionalism. Cadmium poisoning is unusual but very real.
(28). “However, despite the complete lack of exemplary evidence, those wanting to poison the faith of the innocent seem destructively determined to press on.” (pg. 32)
REPLY: The Truth Committee is not out to poison the faith of the innocent, it is out to discover the truth that will be obvious to the honest devotees. And rather than a lack of evidence, there is a mountain of it. “None so blind as those who will not see…”
(29). On page 33-34, the Joker makes much fuss about how sometimes hair tests finding near-normal levels of cadmium will not accurately reflect the actual body burden of cadmium. He presents this as though it is useless to test hair for cadmium, although other elements are not problematic. Thus he has tried to find fault in and plant doubts about the cadmium results in Dr. Morris’ hair tests. This was already explained in our book, but the Joker missed that too. An example: to feel the difference between travelling 1 or 2 mph is difficult, but if going 250 mph, there is no doubt of extreme speed. Similarly, if someone has normal or double the average levels of cadmium in his hair, it may not correlate in those same amounts to what is in his body. But if someone has 250 times normal hair cadmium, no scientist will (or has) stated that such results are meaningless or misleading. Actually, we have NINE EXPERT OPINIONS listed in Ch. 32 of our book which make it very clear that 250 times normal is lethal and “prima facie evidence of poisoning with malicious intent.” (KGBG pg. 217)
The science of hair analysis is highly advanced and reliable, and that includes tests for cadmium as well. The Joker is promoting distortions and deceit, connivingly, to cause unnecessary doubts.
image(30). In Appendix I, the Joker lists 29 studies of cadmium in hair, but admits he did not have time to study them, yet insinuates that they all cast great doubt on the value of testing hair for cadmium. This is very dishonest, as it is only one study (with very low levels), and this won’t relate to Srila Prabhupada’s sky-high and unprecedented levels that were 40 times higher than the most contaminated USA waste dump… The Joker is using selective science and bluffing us as well. SHAME on him!
(31). On page 34, the Joker again makes false accusations, saying that the Truth committee needed “at least 1 mg… but could only find 0.00012 grams of hair dust.” He states it clearly in his goofy cartoon. The truth is that Dr. Morris can accurately test these very small amounts of hair, and he did- the three cadmium tests had roughly similar levels of cadmium. AFTER the test (not before), the hair was reduced to radioactive “dust.” He also claims ICP-MS testing methodology is better than NAA, but NAA is able to test much smaller quantities than ICP-MS. His insinuations that we used the wrong testing method is scientifically unknowledgeable and another faulty faultfinding exercise. The Joker can succeed in causing doubts only in those who want to believe him and are not honest. SHAME on him!
(32). “The way it was used in analyzing Srila Prabhupada's hair is so rare this lab may have never used it for this type of purpose before and therefore the results are only nominally useful.” (pg. 35)
REPLY: Here the Joker tries to fault Dr. Morris as never having done tests on hair for elemental contents before. SHAME on him! This is completely untrue, as Dr. Morris’ specialty is testing Aztec and Peruvian mummies, including their hair, for things like arsenic, cadmium, and so on. Dr. Morris has done innumerable hair tests for all sorts of things. The Joker is the one with the devious, cheating agenda…
(33). “Another less often used NAA reason for studying hair forensics is to confirm the identity of a crime suspect by comparing samples of his hair to a strand of hair found at a crime scene.” (Pg. 35)
REPLY: Pitiful! Wrong science! It is DNA (not NAA) testing that determines the identity of the person’s hair. The Joker just threw together his rag sheet without being sure of the sciences…
(34). “Dr. Morris was apparently savvy enough to realize he was dealing with the most intoxicated members of the Goof Team, so before he took their money he issued some type of professional disclosure due to the inadequate size of the hair dust.” (pg. 35)
REPLY: Again, UNTRUE. The Joker construes something which it is not. His dishonesty and cheating process is astounding. He is not a decent or honest man, but a deliberate liar intent on deceit, even by twisting the words of other persons. Dr. Morris was explaining that with smaller samples, the accuracy declines, and this is reflected in his final report. For example, sample D was 0.00072 grams, and the finding of 19.9 ppm cadmium was 95% sure to be within [2.0] ppm either way, or from 17.9 to 21.9 ppm. But sample Q-2 was only 0.00012 grams, and the finding of 14.9 pm cadmium was 95% sure to be within [3.8] ppm either way, or from 11.1 to 18.7 ppm. Again, the reason NAA was used is because it is more accurate than ICP-MS, especially on such small amounts, upon which the accuracy is still very, very good. This attempt to discredit the NAA testing methodology and Dr. Morris is just someone peeing in the wind. The “large uncertainty” is explained above; the less the mass, the larger the range of inaccuracy, but Dr. Morris’ tests were very accurate, more than ICP-MS tests could have delivered. This degree of inaccuracy is not even close to that which would affect its meaningfulness. The Joker is just a blustering faulty faultfinder. SHAME on him! Then he depicts Dr. Morris in a cartoon, calling his nuclear reactor facility a “Hyperpure Dermanium Generator Detector.” He doubts everyone except himself!
(35). Then on pg. 36, the Joker takes another potshot at Dr. Morris:
“With all due respect to Dr. Steve Morris and his Hyperpure DermaniumGenerator Detector at the University of Missouri, he simply isn’t an expert in the field of toxicology.”
Dr. Morris is fully qualified to make a toxicological evaluation of the cadmium findings, but he did not do so, so what’s the problem? We assembled nine expert opinions to do that, one of which the Joker attempt to discredit with some spotty, irrelevant, and partial data (all he could find). We challenge the Joker (or anyone) to go find their own expert and see what 250 times normal average hair cadmium means! But the joker could not do this. So instead he finds faulty faults.
(36). Also on pg. 36, the Joker becomes an expert himself on cadmium in hair and assembles some quotes such as: “Hair analysis is not the best biological medium to serve as an indicator of […] exposures.” “Not the best” does not mean no good at all, and that does not disqualify hair analysis from being used by thousands of scientists and laboratories every day of the year, and providing meaningful and useful results. Urine testing would be better, but the super-high levels of cadmium in Srila Prabhupada’s hair samples do not require the slightly more accurate readings from urine to become meaningful or clearly indicative of a massive, catastrophic, homicidal poisoning, as ascertained by experts far more knowledgeable than the amateur scientist Mayeswara das. SHAME on him!
(37). On pg. 37, the Joker explains how he found his own expert and wrote him if: “hair analysis could be used to prove cadmium poisoning.” The answer was, “It might be possible to guess the cause of death from a hair sample of a deceased person, but often not.” Well, that sounds correct, but why didn’t the Joker tell Dr. Wilson how much cadmium was found in Srila Prabhupada’s hair? Dr. Wilson is an expert in “nutritional balance” when a person is not poisoned, but may have some “nutritional imbalances.” Experts listed in our book ascertained that Srila Prabhupada had lethal, catastrophic, homicidal levels. The Joker is grasping for any negative insinuation he can manufacture. SHAME on him!
(38). GBC wanted to do hair tests, namely the ones which were completed by the Truth Committee, and also the official GBC investigator Balavanta das did hair tests. So the GBC does believe in hair tests, but the Joker does not, as is evident by his finding fault in hair analysis science. This is simply sour grapes philosophy; if the hair tests do not show there was no poisoning, then they must be defective!
(39). Also on pg. 37, the Joker gives three quotes from a 2001 Hair Analysis Panel Discussion to try and establish that Srila Prabhupada’s ultra-high cadmium could have come from exogenous sources, namely air dust, shampoo, massage oil, or anything external. The problem of external sources contaminating hair and thus getting a false reading for what was inside the body is a real one which scientists face all the time. However, it does not apply to our situation because the cadmium levels were so high that no external source of contamination could produce such readings. For Srila Prabhupada’s hair to have been externally contaminated to the level of 250 X normal quickly rules out external contamination. Also Dr. Morris examined the hair samples beforehand under a high-powered microscope and saw no external contamination. If there was any significant contamination, he would have seen it, and it was not there. Again, that the levels were so astronomically high, such that we could not find any previous instance of these levels in the scientific literatures, including studies of external contaminations, means only that Srila Prabhupada was maliciously poisoned with sufficient cadmium chemicals to achieve those levels. External contamination may cause cadmium readings in hair tests maybe to double, but not 250 X normal. All these arguments, such as it was the cadmium in medicines, massage oils, shampoo, air, dust, smoke, pesticide-treated food, etc- are thus seriously and fatally faulty.
Trace contaminations will never add up to 250 times above the average normal.
(40). On pg. 38, the Joker tries to discredit hair analysis again by referring to corruption in the FBI where hundreds of trial cases were given biased testimony by FBI agents to favor the prosecution. However, this is a matter of misrepresentation of accurate results in hair tests, not of inaccurate hair test results. Again, the Joker tries to deceive and mislead us- HE is the one with the dishonest agenda looking for any devious way to cover the truth. It was the testimony by FBI agents that was in error due to agency corruption. SHAME on him! Again, the GBC favored doing hair tests, so why doesn’t the Joker?
(41). On pg. 39 the Joker complains that the Truth Committee had in effect stolen the GBC hair samples when they were sent to Dr. Morris, and thus the tests are questionable. However, the truth is that the GBC abandoned their hair samples in Wisconsin, declining to pay the costs, and the GBC book states:
“We will fully cooperate by providing full details of the specimens, which are already at a lab in the US, and what were their origins. If there are some who feel strongly that this investigation should be done, then they are more than welcome to come forward and meet the costs associated with it.”
The Joker also complains that we “intentionally misled” Dr. Agasie in Wisconsin by claiming to be colleagues of the GBC. Yes, we assisted Balavanta and the GBC in finding Dr. Morris, and have assisted in completing the investigation into this case, and may be called “adversarial colleagues.” The GBC wanted Dr. Morris to do the tests and offered that others could pay for them, so we took that offer and paid for the tests. What’s the problem here? Again, the Joker is just throwing mud all around to see if some might stick somewhere. We don’t claim perfection, but so far, he hasn’t had much luck!
(42). On pg. 39 the Joker gets his hair samples mixed up, referring to ND-2 as one with high cadmium. However, ND-2 had normal cadmium levels. Then he implies that the “poison theory” is invalid because an expert stated that these super-high cadmium levels means death within a few days, and Srila Prabhupada lived for nine months longer. Yes, we also are amazed how Srila Prabhupada appeared well one day, ill the next day, and “survived” for so long in spite of severe poisoning. But, sorry, our lack of understanding on this matter does not invalidate the results of Dr. Morris’ hair tests.
image(43). On pg. 40 and elsewhere the Joker tries to establish that there are prohibitive difficulties specific to cadmium levels in the body and hair, and he gives some short quotes that appear to support this contention. However, again, various conundrums may appear when comparing normal cadmium levels to slightly elevated levels; the slight abnormality could be attributed to many factors. But Srila Prabhupada’s hair was not slightly elevated; it was astronomically elevated. So these objections do not apply at all. Wrong again! Actually, the same HAPD document he quoted from clearly states:
“Substances/elements for which reliable analyses exist include […] cadmium.” (pg. C-40)
(44). “When their first conspiracy assault was no longer gleaning the attention they wanted to sustain, they came up with three more hair samples to test, but this time they made sure the alleged testing suggested that the amounts of Cadmium were unequivocally deadly.” (pg. 40)
REPLY: The Truth Committee did not come up with three more hair samples to test; this was done by Hari Sauri das and his Australian assistant Deva Gaurahari das. “Alleged” testing? The Joker insinuates fraud on the part of the Truth Committee and Dr. Morris, but he does not show where this fraud exists. What we would like is more true expert opinions instead of so much fluff and deceit from the Joker, who is the last thing from an expert. SHAME on him!
(45). On pg. 40 the Joker contends that cadmium poisoning is “just too unpredictable, complicated, risky, and unreliable” and that cadmium always accumulates in the body slowly over years and that large amounts of cadmium will simply pass through without being absorbed into the blood. This is scientifically incorrect. SHAME on him! In our book we featured the entire clinical description of a lady who ingested spoonfuls of cadmium chloride and the results. She died quickly, suffered greatly in the interim, and is one of many cases that prove cadmium salts poisoning works all too well.
(46). On pg. 41 the Joker concludes Srila Prabhupada’s levels of cadmium were “impossible” and thus tries to discredit the “poison theory.” But these levels are a fact established by very advanced science and scientists, reflected in all the quoted experts in our book, none of whom agree with the Joker as to the impossibility of these levels. The Joker’s weird science is faulty, biased, and misinterpreted over and over because his agenda is to deny the “poison theory.” He does not prove that Srila Prabhupada was not poisoned via his own scientific tests; he simply tries to create doubts in the science and the tests that prove Srila Prabhupada WAS poisoned. Sour grapes man. SHAME on him!
(47). On pg. 41-45, the Joker speculates on various possibilities, such as that Srila Prabhupada, having ingested or absorbed cadmium tainted mustard seeds and oil all his life, became immune to cadmium, even though he had high levels of cadmium and he departed due to other causes, not cadmium. However, millions of others who always use mustard seeds and oil should then also have ultra-high levels of cadmium, but this is not the case. Where are the case studies of 250 X normal cadmium due to mustard seeds? There are none! So why does he bring up this idea? Because he is dishonest.
(48). On pg. 47 the Joker has the audacity to state (and this really takes the cake):
“The fact that NOBODY called the police or felt it was necessary to have a blood test done was because none of the people who were there had any reason to believe that Srila Prabhupada was being poisoned. He never came out and said that to anyone…”
REPLY: So many devotees who have read or listened to the recordings where Srila Prabhupada speaks about being poisoned believe that Srila Prabhupada knew what he was talking about and this is the strongest evidence of poisoning. We present just three direct quotes that disprove his assertion:
“Someone gave him poison here!” Bhakti Charu Swami (Nov. 10, 1977)
“Prabhupada was thinking that someone had poisoned him?” Tamal Krishna Goswami (Nov. 10, 1977)
“That same thing that I said, that someone has poisoned me.” Srila Prabhupada (Nov. 10, 1977)
Still, the Joker goes on to say that Srila Prabhupada must have been talking about medicine or something else than actual poisoning, because, perhaps very technically, he never directly states that he was for sure being poisoned. And because he is able to inject 2% doubt, the Joker asserts there was no poisoning as evidenced in Srila Prabhupada’s words. This is amazing, and shows how far persons will go to bypass, overlook, dismiss, prevaricate, and obscure real, solid evidence and reach their preferred conclusions to support their model and paradigm lest their reality collapse, which would mean facing a huge emotional, philosophic, and practical readjustment in life. We want to know why no one called the police or had blood tests done! It was not because there was no reason to do so!
This is amazing, summarized as this: “None are so blind as those who will not see.”
(49). On pg. 49, the Joker has a cartoon which accuses us of using the following as evidence:
Rumors: There may be rumors of something, as smoke indicates a fire, but we never claimed rumors were to be used as facts and solid evidence. We always were clear what was what.
Astrology: This is a valid and great science, and is useful, although we never claimed it proved anything because in Kali yuga there are no great astrologers, only mediocre ones.
Hair Dust: No hair dust was tested, but after the tests, the hair became dust.
Dirt Files: Unfortunately there is lots of dirt in this material world, so we are to be “Pollyannas”?
Guess Work, Speculations: Our book is always very clear about what are facts or possibilities.
Dreams: If some dreams help to make sense out of reality, so be it. This is up to the reader.
Payoffs, Hallucinations, Ghosts: What does he refer to here? He gives no examples.
Voice Stress: Yes, we did some of these tests and they confirmed that the prime suspects were very untruthful with Srila Prabhupada in late 1977. Voice stress analysis is widely used by law enforcement/courts in crime solving, and we hope to employ this truth ascertainment technology in determining exactly who was involved in or had knowledge of Srila Prabhupada’s poisoning.
Opinions: Everyone is entitled to their opinion, expressed for consideration by others. No wrong here.
Bribes, Palm Reading: The Joker fails to give any evidence of bribes or palm readings.
(50). “They are the ones who also assert that by March of 1977 the cadmium accrued to 300 times more than anyone could survive! …How could he have possibly survived 300 times the lethal limit and then live for another 8 months?” (pg. 50)
REPLY: Untrue. This is a total twisting of everything, sorry. It is “up to 300 X more than the average normal person,” not the lethal limit. Big difference. Let’s get our science straight.
(51). On pg. 54, the Joker tries to explain away Tamal’s mercy-killing interview where he states:
“A number of times he would say ‘Can you give me a medicine, please give me a medicine that will allow me to disappear now.’ Another time he said ‘I want most now to disappear. I want to die peacefully. Let me die peacefully.’”
Nothing close to Tamal’s claims exist on any other recorded tapes, and neither has any other witness verified these claims by Tamal. The Joker presents the issue as emotional confusion by Tamal, which may have existed or not (it is irrelevant). Tamal clearly states that Srila Prabhupada wanted his assistance in suicide, which is preposterous and extremely suspicious. Combined with other evidences, we can say Tamal was making excuses for the now scientifically proven fact of Srila Prabhupada’s poisoning. Tamal’s interview would be simply distasteful if Srila Prabhupada’s hair tests showed no poisoning, but they do show poisoning. Then, Tamal is suspected, due to his own words. Emotional confusion does not answer why Tamal said these things!
(52). “Tamal Krishna Goswami has been very unfairly accused, tried, and condemned by this kangaroo-court of self-appointed prosecutors. That is why so many learned and sober devotees don’t give any credence to any aspect of this completely concocted conspiracy fable. The whole thing is founded on the worst form of envious stinking-thinking that only a wicked mind could possibly dream up.” (pg. 55)
REPLY: The illogical response here is that since some are being unfairly suspected or accused of Srila Prabhupada’s poisoning, this proves there was no poisoning at all. First we must deal with whether there was a poisoning or not. The evidence conclusively proves that Srila Prabhupada was indeed poisoned with sky-high levels of cadmium over at least 8 or 9 months. Such a poisoning was deliberate, malicious, and homicidal; there is no other plausible explanation. Further, senior men were recorded on tape speaking about poisoning. They had a huge motive to poison Srila Prabhupada, were extremely ruthless and ambitious, as history shows in their words and actions, they gained enormous material benefits upon his departure. They took over the movement illegitimately, lying about being appointed as the next acharyas. Tamal’s history/ character is infamous, and it is only natural for so many devotees to suspect him of the now proven poisoning, especially in light of all the evidence that clearly implicates him. Let’s not be naïve here, and allow the threat of “Vaishnava aparadha” to prevent clear thinking.
(53). “Most of what makes up all the so-called evidence in this dispute is circumstantial at best, irrelevant or just hurdy-gurdy side-bar ostentation.” (pg. 55)
REPLY: So says the Joker, but why is it that so many are taking this evidence seriously? It is because the facts and evidence have a very strong ring of truth, have solid credibility, and are substantial. Whether or not this case ever makes it to a mundane court of law does not mean Srila Prabhupada was not poisoned. Court convictions are for WHO poisoned, not for WHETHER there was a poisoning. There’s a big difference. Admittedly, court convictions of poisoners is always much harder to obtain than proof of the crime. The hair tests are the smoking gun. That’s why in this case the court of public opinion is so important- we are appealing to the intelligence of devotees by presenting the facts and evidence for their evaluation. And this truth campaign has been very effective.
(54). “The fact that the hair samples, which changed hands many times, were not stored in a clean, controlled environment and could have even been stolen and replaced with other hairs by a zealot disciple, are all possible.” (Pg. 55)
REPLY: The chain of custody of the three cadmium hair samples is impeccable and fully documented. The GBC had custody of them throughout, and the Truth Committee simply paid for the tests. Remember, Dr. Morris was employed by the GBC through Balavanta das. The custodians were Hari Sauri, Sesa, Deva Gaurahari, and Balavanta, all of whom the GBC fully trusts. Further, we challenge the GBC to agree to moderated testing of further hair samples which we are confident will confirm the triple confirmations received so far. Now really, how difficult would it be to stage or tamper with three separate hair samples that would come out with such similar cadmium levels and not something else? To fraudulently arrange these results, as is suggested by the Joker, would be something even the CIA could not pull off. Tampering is not a concern. It is just another doubt injected by the Joker, who will say anything to cause confusion. All of his doubt-mongering has been found to be baseless exaggerations and dishonest deceptions. Also, the proof that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned does not rely solely on these three cadmium hair tests. There is plenty of other evidence as well.
The chain of custody is documented and not in question. Why else would the GBC and their agents arrange these tests in hopes of disproving arsenic poisoning if the samples were not authentic? These hair samples have been authenticated by the GBC, Hari sauri, and Deva Gaurahari. The GBC fully expected a negative result and had no motive to fudge with the authenticity of the samples because they wanted to disprove the poison proposition.
(55). “Keep in mind those in the law enforcement business tell us that when someone is murdered with poison, it is rarely done by any more than one very secretive assailant. It simply doesn’t require more than one person and it doesn’t make any sense for an assassin to involve anyone else.” (Pg. 56)
REPLY: This is an interesting question: why would there be a need for more than one person to poison Srila Prabhupada? Well, a takeover of the institution would be hard to pull off by just one man, but if key men who could influence and control the GBC body, then it would work. Therefore Tamal needed allies. Also there are three different people involved in the forensically-certified “poison whispers.” So that very strongly indicates at least three participants.
(56). On pages 56-57, the Joker writes about Chandra Swami and about how ridiculous it was that we hinted maybe Chandra Swami was not an appropriate supplier of Srila Prabhupada’s medicines in 1977 since he has been implicated in assassinations, murder, bribery, political frame-ups, and so much more. It is not clear exactly what he is protesting however, so we cannot respond in much detail. Sorry.
(57). “If this were heard by a trial jury, the prosecuting attorney would have to explain with great detail where the poison was acquired, who obtained it and how they learned to administer it.” (Pg. 69)
REPLY: The Joker goes on to ridicule the idea of cadmium poisoning because it is so “complicated” and “difficult,” joking that maybe Tamal was in the back alley making cadmium potions with NiCad batteries and hydrochloric acid. But anyone with a basic idea of chemistry could simply acquire a few teaspoons of cadmium chloride and administer a tiny bit whenever wanted. Maybe Chandra Swami told someone how to do it; maybe someone studied chemistry in college, as Bhakti Charu did for years in Germany; there are many possibilities. We don’t know for sure. But the hair tests prove that a lethal poisoning took place and now we want to find who did it. If this case does enter the legal system, it will be in India and prosecuted by the government, so the Joker might want to advise the CID over there. And in between all his goofy cartoons, jokes,and ridicule, there is one reminder: We are dealing with a mountain of evidence that insiders tried to murder Srila Prabhupada, now scientifically proven to have actually happened. And, this is really no laughing matter.
(58). The last parts of the Joker’s booklet became more incoherent by the page so we decided to stop. The summary is that his “work” is all deceptive huff and puff, much ado about nothing, self-contradictory, and basically unscientific mudslinging. His material meets with a fail grade, sorry.
(59). An ISKCON sannyasi guru compiled for us some points that the Joker had supposedly made:
“Toxicologists warn to not equate high levels of cadmium in hair with illness, as there is no demonstrated connection between the two.” This refers to amounts close to normal and would not apply to levels 250 X normal as found in Srila Prabhupada’s hair.
“Hair analysis is a very undeveloped science and so-called experts can come up with highly different results from the same sample.” Again, this refers to slightly elevated levels and not the catastrophic and lethal levels Srila Prabhupada had in his hair. Also, the vast majority of sources hold the science of hair analysis in high esteem and it is used worldwide everywhere.
“One of the forensic analysts to whom hair was submitted said that the quantity was far too low to give any meaningful result.” This is untrue and a fabrication. The quantities were more than sufficient to obtain very accurate readings. See item 31 above.
“An accepted medical principle is that laboratory tests on hair should be cross-checked by other standard ways of examining the body.” Well, yes, the more verifications the better. So will ISKCON leaders be amenable to cooperate on further tests or will they just continue denials? Still, so far the three separate tests of high cadmium and three tests of normal cadmium represent a very substantial testing regime which is cross-correlated and confirmatory.
“Cadmium poisoning is unusual and is always by oral inhalation.” Untrue and dumb wrong.
“Cadmium ingested via the mouth is passed out of the body without being absorbed.” Tell that to those who were poisoned with cadmium chemicals. Some accounts are given in our book. Again, this is untrue and scientifically, dumb wrong. Cadmium chemicals are readily absorbed in the gut.
“The forensics consulted by the authors of KGBG were unreliable. Some were not experts in that field and some were fly-by-night scammers.” Untrue. The Joker made a fuss about Great Smoky Diagnostics from whose website we borrowed a sentence regarding how external contamination of hair works, but we never used that lab. The Joker also tried to discredit CAE and Jack Mitchell, but we have their credentials and expertise documented. Just lies. False accusations. Mudslinging.
So the Joker may succeed in befooling some parties with his faulty faultfinding and mudslinging, and this is to be expected in Kali yuga and especially in and around ISKCON, where the Joker has deep loyalties and motivations to defend by using any means whatsoever, generally via falsehoods.
(60). Elsewhere Mayeswara das made a fuss about the use of the quote from Srila Prabhupada where he says, “This is my only request, that at the last stage don’t torture me and put to death.” Ten days previous to that, Srila Prabhupada stated: “Don’t move me to the hospital. Better kill me here.” So what is misconstrued by us here? Srila Prabhupada doesn’t want to be put in the hospital, yes. But it is very strange, to say the least, that he asked his caretakers not to torture or kill him. Later he speaks about preferring to be killed by Rama than by Ravana. So who is the Ravana? Not much about these statements is innocuous, and that is why they have been quoted in the Truth Committee films.
(61). “There are none so blind as those who will not see, nor none so deaf as those who will not hear.” The proof is there to see and hear, but some cannot or will not see or hear it. It is counter-productive to waste one’s valuable time to try to convince those who are dishonest at heart or who are not open to truths higher than their own limited understandings. Those who cling to the conviction that Srila Prabhupada was not poisoned, in spite of the mountain of evidence that proves it, will even try to explain away why Srila Prabhupada said he was poisoned, why the science of hair analysis is invalid, why the “poison theory” is crazy and inconceivable, and so on. Such people are like the old saying:
You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink, or it is not possible to wake up someone pretending to be asleep. It is no use to deal with people like this, just as we do not waste time trying to deal with fanatical Christians. They have a paradigm of beliefs which would otherwise be very threatened. ISKCON-ites have much at stake. If Srila Prabhupada was poisoned, it would mean the end of their world as it is now and many changes could be ushered in, leaving their futures uncertain and insecure. The ramifications of this truth are enormous for the Hare Krishna movement.
ISKCON misleaders and their supporters like Mayeswara das must resort to lies, deceit, fraud, misrepresentation, misquoting, information overload, controlling the narrative, false assertions, the big lie strategy, institutional obstruction, and all sorts of dishonesty to desperately stave off the bright light of truth that is now blinding them in the face. Instead they take shelter of argumentativeness such as:
“It is rather astonishing that you find the fallacies of reasoning in the Poison Antidote Paper but do not see fallacies such as the Ad Nausian (sic) Fallacy, Vividness Fallacy, Entrenchment Fallacy, Straw man fallacy and Confirmation Bias Fallacies in the Srila Prabhupada has been poisoned theory. So if you are unable to recognize all these other reasoning errors then it is our opinion that you are engulfed by the Attention Bias Fallacy.”
By the way, the Joker just invented these five new logical fallacies. Very fertile imagination! Also they will go on and on about how the “poison rumor” is so harmful:
“This poison conspiracy has caused so much alienation, hurt, resentment, and chaos in all branches of the Vaishnava community, and this rumor has been so disruptive to Lord Chaitanya’s movement.”
Yes, the truth sometimes hurts, but ultimately it is healing, and is the only right path to follow. We should hide in ignorance of the truth, afraid of it? Let us determine the truth and go with that. No one knows who to trust these days, as the world is so full of cheaters. Even the GBC and ISKCON gurus have disappointed us time and again. As such, each one of us must use our God-given intelligence to ascertain our truths/the truth, regardless what we are being told. We only ask that devotees study the facts and evidence and judge for themselves.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada!
http://killgurubecomeguru.org/books/
- Nityananda das -
srigovinda@gmail.com
Please also see:
How IskCon brainwashes Devotees
The Dumbed Down Disciple
RESPONSE TO MAYESWARA's POISON "ANTIDOTE"
NONE_SO_BLIND.pdf
NONE_SO_BLIND.docx
NONE_SO_BLIND.html
NONE SO BLIND AS THOSE WHO WILL NOT SEE
By Nityananda das
“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” (John Adams)
Some individuals are disseminating the little known 1977 statements and discussions by and with Srila Prabhupada about his being poisoned, along with scientific forensic tests on hair samples and audio recordings. They bring forward other evidences such as witnesses; medical symptom analysis; discussion of motive; institutional obstruction, fraud and deceit; the long and worsening history of deviations and corruption in ISKCON; why certain persons are suspected in this poisoning; and shastric quotes to counter objections that a pure devotee could be poisoned. The evidence is conclusive that Srila Prabhupada was maliciously poisoned in 1977, and he confirmed this himself.
There are others who insist that these evidence messengers are themselves mind-poisoners by delivering what they claim is a false message. They speak of a “poison antidote” by criticizing what they characterize as an envious and disturbed mentality. They nitpick the poisoning evidence with their cleverly jumbled misrepresentations, and ignore the basic facts. They may allude to an imaginary fault, and thus they proclaim the entire “poison theory” as null and void, claiming there is no evidence at all.
In October 2017 Mayeswara das of Ojai, California compiled a supposed rebuttal to the “poison theory.” His 80 page e-book claims that his work is “completely independent” and that he is “no GBC patsy,” however, from emails to his wife, it appears “…that the GBC, it seems, has now 'commissioned' your husband…” But whether Mayeswara’s “Poison Conspiracy Antidote” is inspired by the GBC or not, Mayeswara also makes it abundantly clear that he is not exactly inspired by the GBC either.
Mayeswara Das (Ojai)
*** “I am […] in no way a fan of any bad decisions we have all had to endure from ISKCON leadership for the last 40 years. I have stood up to injustice, and in doing so, had to endure unfair encounters with some leaders who fabricated things.
... [...] Attempted to bribe me with privileges and perks if I would agree to cover up…
*** I was assaulted with horrible obscenities…
[...] If I was still in the temple the next morning, I would be tossed into the street and beaten.
[…] What I got was the betrayal of the local GBC Guru… Srila Prabhupada's disciples were cast out to the tundra, ISKCON youth got so badly neglected…”
So, although Mayeswara probably was GBC “commissioned” or encouraged to write his “antidote” booklet, and while he claims to be completely independent and “neutral,” he also has had very bad experiences with ISKCON and the GBC. But he still cannot grasp the possibility that the GBC has covered up the poison evidence and confused everyone about it with denials, distortions, and deceit.
And, as we shall see, although being so-called “neutral,” he also denies, distorts, and deceives by repeating the same untruths found in the GBC’s 17 year old book Not That I Am Poisoned.
Then he adds into his “rebuttal bluff” many yellow journalistic cartoons which are mockingly distasteful, plus a travesty of “scientific” conclusions that are even rejected by his own quoted references. Many devotees have commented that there is nothing new in his work, and that they were unimpressed with his “antidote.” It is, as usual for ISKCON and its supporters, all bluff, smoke and mirrors, and misleading sound bites. If you look at it, look at it carefully to see the patterns of deceit.
He has misrepresented the facts and evidence, twisted things around, even totally backwards, and creates a whirlwind of falsehoods intended to confuse us, give us a short-circuiting overload of doubts, so we will tune out this ultra-important historical and spiritual issue: Was Srila Prabhupada really maliciously poisoned, and if so, who did it?
As done by the GBC before him, Mayeswara will fool only the ill-informed, but as devotees are learning more about the actual facts, 1977 conversations, poisoning evidence, and scientific tests, increasingly less persons are being tricked by these politics of deceit.
Mayeswara’s wife also wrote that her husband was the true scientist and defender of truth:
“Besides other things his conclusions are also based on scientific research that the majority of this so called evidence is so unprofessional and forced that all he feels an objective individual with no covert agenda can really do is laugh at it.”
Up is down and down is up; this is the confusion of the world of lies in which we live today. But we will assert that it is actually HIS conclusions that are fraudulently UN-scientific, unprofessional, and laughable. Apologies, but his descriptions fit himself best.
His strategy is the same as that of the GBC in the past: simply pronounce one segment after another of the evidence to be flawed in some way, even if by insinuation only. Neti, neti… not this, not that. It is a cheating method to avoid the obvious bigger picture of evidence, which, if taken all together, is overwhelmingly convincing.
Sure, there is a 0.0001% chance that in some way maybe each piece of evidence may be invalid - nothing is impossible, after all. But with so many pieces of evidence, each multiplied by 0.0001%... it becomes one chance out of billions that Srila Prabhupada’s poisoning evidence would be all a coincidental assemblage that is actually something innocuous. This is the technique of the ill-motivated deniers: to cause nagging doubts. And running through Mayeswara’s booklet, we find a distinct pattern of doubt-manufacturing. Honest persons approach issues differently, without predisposed conclusions, motivated agendas, or argumentative layering of doubts.
So let’s examine his main points by which he claims the “poison conspiracy” is denigrated. To see points regarding cadmium, start at #25.
(1). “Those seeking vengeance for all the past transgressions feeling compelled to stop the GBC Kings. To do so they cleverly devised the "Who Poisoned Prabhupada” conspiracy knowing that it would have far more disruptive consequences than just introducing some new philosophical controversy.” (pg. 9)
REPLY: This is the accusation that “poison theorists” concocted something out of nothing because they wanted “vengeance” with “more disruptive consequences.” This is standard propaganda methodology: to paint the adversary as having a different agenda than what he speaks to; in other words, the poison theory is not about the poisoning evidence, but about us guessing their hidden motives… The truth is simply that many devotees are sincerely and genuinely disturbed by the evidence that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned, and will not take kindly that their concern is thus characterized as an evil intention.
The Truth Committee has compiled this evidence, not created it. For example, Naveen Krishna and Balavanta were GBC members, but resigned out of disgust with how the poison evidence was covered-up by the GBC body. They concocted this controversy to get themselves off the GBC body?
(2). “Here was an opportunity to unleash a tsunami of doubt, intrigue, and suspicion at the very top of ISKCON management.” (pg. 9)
REPLY: In actuality, the level of doubts and suspicion in the GBC body is at a very low level already, and does not require a “poison theory” to accomplish what the GBC themselves have done to their own reputation, namely, completely eviscerate it. Back in the late nineties, a devotee poll showed a 19% approval rating of the GBC- a level that no US president has ever achieved. Of course, the GBC decision to deny all the poisoning evidence and obstruct any honest investigation only undermined their reputation further, and not because of those who pressed for full discovery of the truth in the matter.
(3). “The vile idea that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned by his top disciples became the acorn which fell on the head of Chicken Little.” (pg. 9)
REPLY: This very un-scientific evaluation is infantile and sickening simultaneously.
(4). “Conspiracy theories help insecure individuals cope with distressing events, as it offers the frail a way to make sense out of difficult circumstances.” (pg.10)
REPLY: Now Mayeswara will be psychoanalyzing the “poison theorists,” explaining their frailties and insecurities… Thanks, but no thanks.
(5). “To accuse anyone of conspiring to poison another human being with little more than rumors, controversial whispers, unconfirmed lab studies on suspicious evidence is so blatantly reckless that those who are not blinded by their own negative conditioning will be quick to dismiss this scandal.” (pg. 10)
REPLY: Here we see his minimization of the evidence, following the example of the GBC deniers. But simple denying does not invalidate that evidence. It stands on its own merits when examined.
(6). “The association with the racist bigot Harry Barnes pretty much reveals exactly what we are dealing with here. Behind a very thin veil of a not so convincing scholarly patina, we find an extremely deviant agenda.” (pg. 11)
REPLY: Barnes was once highly regarded as a prodigious scholar and historian, and in this context the book Kill Guru Become Guru referred to the term “revisionism” which was coined by Barnes. We simply want to set history straight with the facts and truth, and know nothing of anything else from Barnes. But Mayeswara claims we have endorsed all of Barnes’ other work (such as Holocaust denial), which we were unaware of. Throughout his booklet he unfairly associates us with “the bigot Barnes.”
(7). “On one side, we find a 13-year-old boy doing simple janitor work; on the other side, there is an entire institution of individuals who have organized huge preaching projects, overseen massive book publications, and commanded Akshauhini’s of sankirtan forces…” (pg.12)
REPLY: Here he speaks about the worthlessness of the Mexican gurukuli who claims to have overheard senior men discussing Prabhupada’s poisoning in late 1977. He simplifies the situation by asserting lesser credibility to the “janitor,” as though evidence is verified by one’s social status. The Mexican witness is only a part of the massive body of evidence, but he discredits many pieces by saying, “Isn’t it ludicrous to put all our faith in a couple of young boys?” Yes, razz, ridicule, jeer- so scientific!
(8). He quotes from a letter from Abhirama das, one of Srila Prabhupada’s 1977 caretakers: (pg. 12)
“If they ever were actually serious to investigate, why did they not contact me, ever?
REPLY: Well, we did contact Abhirama in June 2017 and we had a friendly exchange in which we assured him he was not considered a poison suspect, his deep affection for Srila Prabhupada was not questioned, and he agreed to look at the cadmium and other evidence with an open mind.
(9). “Even more to the point is [Abhiram’s] personal testimony that confirms he often ate Srila Prabhupada’s remnants and never suffered from any ill effects.” (pg. 12)
REPLY: Here is an erroneous assumption- that because Abhirama often ate some of Srila Prabhupada’s mahaprasad, therefore Srila Prabhupada was not poisoned, as though the mahaprasad was the only possible route of administering poison. Would a poisoner be so dumb as to poison many devotees while also poisoning Srila Prabhupada, thus exposing his game? Of course not! A poisoner would carefully choose a route for poisoning which would not be shared with others.
(10). “Listed here is the proof of how callously indifferent the truth detectives can be regarding the good counsel of other more prudent and mature devotees.” (pg. 13)
REPLY: He lists 9 items of “ruthless agenda” by nitpicking on details out of context, such as quoting devotees who had been interviewed without getting their written permission, even though no confidence was given or requested. Also, as expected, he refers to the reverse speech studies done by Dhanesvara das in 1999, something which has been clearly disassociated from the updated 2017 compilation of evidence which he conveniently overlooked in Ch. 91. This is selective dishonesty.
(11). “We are asked to believe their lust for immediate power was so strong that they plotted to murder His Divine Grace by poisoning him with cadmium.” (Pg. 15)
REPLY: Yes, actually, this is the rationale for poisoning someone, namely to gain something from the death of the victim. In this case it would be to sit on Srila Prabhupada’s seat as the next acharya, which is exactly what they, suspects included, did do immediately after Srila Prabhupada departed. Is this really so hard to understand for one who knows the ISKCON history of these men from 1977-1987?
(12). “To suggest that Srila Prabhupada felt like he was being poisoned by his most trusted men implies that he didn’t even have enough common sense to immediately send anyone away he did not trust. …he could summon mystic powers and know who was betraying him, as Jesus knew it was Judas. Yet, we would then have to assume Srila Prabhupada just went along with it? Why would he do that? If Srila Prabhupada knew he was being poisoned, he was empowered with divine wisdom, and certainly could have outsmarted his envious disciples. Srila Prabhupada is offensively portrayed like a confused martyr, who was willing to sacrifice his own life because he was so tolerant, compassionate…” (pg. 15-16)
REPLY: Mayeswara assumes his philosophical interpretation negates the possibility of Srila Prabhupada being poisoned. This is a common objection, that Srila Prabhupada would have saved himself from poisoners and stopped them. Yet Jesus Christ, a pure devotee, did not protest his crucifixion, even carrying his own cross up to Calvary. Christ could have employed his mystic powers to save himself, but did not. Did Haridas Thakur stop the soldiers from whipping him? No, he agreed to die if his life would inconvenience them! So what is the difficulty in appreciating that Srila Prabhupada knew he was being poisoned, confirmed by himself saying that he was being poisoned, and not resisting or protesting? Did Prahlad fight when thrown into the boiling oil? Obviously, Srila Prabhupada’s mission was accomplished and he decided to depart at that time. The poisoning was not the cause of his death, but was coincidental as part of his disappearance pastimes.
(13). “…Prabhupada's total commitment to his preaching effort …He wouldn’t be so short-sighted to let a few so-called very devious converts have their way with him. This is especially true for Tamal Krishna Goswami, who had felt the hammer of Srila Prabhupada's anger before… If he had any suspicions about Tamal Krishna, he could have easily had him removed…” (pg. 16)
REPLY: The shastra cautions that no one can understand the mind of the acharya. We do not know why Srila Prabhupada accepted his poisoning, even choosing not to answer Tamal when asked who was poisoning him. Perhaps his mission was completed and it was time to go elsewhere. It is a mistake and presumptuous to declare what Srila Prabhupada should have done when he knew he was being poisoned, which he clearly knew as evidenced from the recorded conversations.
(14). “Overwhelming … with a mountain of paperwork is an effective sleazy, legal tactic.” (pg. 17)
imageREPLY: Here he complains that we have presented a mountain of paperwork and he quotes WC Fields: “If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.” He insults the intelligence of so many devotees who appreciate the evidence as seriously conclusive and very substantial, and not as BS. Why else did he have to write his “rebuttal” if not for many devotees taking the evidence seriously?
(15). Mayeswara uses ridiculous photos that supposedly discredits the poisoning facts and evidence, such as this one with the KKK from the 1950’s. This is his problem: if a logical counter argument can't be waged, then resort to deformation of character. Throughout his booklet we did not find any logical or sound counter arguments. He plays the psychoanalyst as well: “Such extreme behavior is confirmed by those who study the mentality of individuals who rely on conspiracies to make up for the lack of accomplishment or control in their own lives.” (pg. 17-18) He also compares the “poison theory” to holocaust denial with yet another cartoon, claiming we want to “change history”… Sorry to say this, but Mayeswara seems a little bit wacky with some loose screws…
(16). “The Truth Committee leads us to believe there were widespread rumors about Srila Prabhupada being poisoned right from the first day he departed. Yet, those rumors never surfaced in Vrindavan where the crimes were allegedly committed.” (pg. 18)
REPLY: The Truth Committee does not rely on any rumors as proof, so why does he say this? And because he did not hear them, then there were none?
(17). “There is no doubt that these men still had a lot to learn and grow as true leaders and saints and they may have even done some disgraceful things along the way because they were not perfected human beings… but they also most certainly were not killers!” (pg. 20-21)
REPLY: Here Mayeswara das repeats another common objection; that senior disciples could not have possibly poisoned Srila Prabhupada because they loved him so much and would have given their lives for him. Is it inconceivable that Tamal and others could have poisoned Srila Prabhupada? Apparently for some it is, but for many others it is very plausible, especially after examining Part Seven of Kill Guru Become Guru with the real Tamal as evidence and actual history. How can one dismiss Tamal’s very incriminating “mercy-killing” interview, which is a virtual poisoning confession. The full taped interview is posted at www.killgurubecomeguru.org Poisonings are very common and most often done by someone very close to the victim, someone that everyone else would never have suspected.
(18). “If you read this entire paper you will learn that it was completely impossible for Srila Prabhupada to have been poisoned by cadmium!” (pg. 21)
REPLY: This is one of his craziest statements, as though his wild pronouncements make any difference to the truth as established by scientific tests and many expert opinions. He contests the scientific world with his own version of scientific interpretations! More specifics further on.
(19). “…phrases they believe are communications coming from disembodied ghosts and spirits. Once the Truth team found some good monde#E0FFE0s that could be interpreted as the word "poison", all they had to do was plant the suggestion in the minds of those wandering on the dark side and -whamo… yea… I can hear it! Someone is whispering “Is the poison going down.” (pg. 21)
REPLY: Having at least skimmed some of the books on this matter, Mayeswara should have seen that it was not just hundreds of devotees who agreed on the general content of the poison whispers, but also that five prominent, qualified audio forenic specialists or laboratories confirmed them as being about poisoning. One lab recommended a homicide investigator and forensic toxicologist should be consulted. There were multi-confirmations and certifications that these whispers were about poisoning, yet Mayeswara warns about “wandering on the dark side…” The reason that audio experts were consulted was to avoid what people “thought” they were hearing and determine what was actually being said via the science of audio forensics. We should trust these scientific experts well before we trust Mayeswara with his denials. Of course, he never tells us what the poison whispers really are!
(20). “The only place that Srila Prabhupada asserts himself clearly in regards to the poison issue comes up when Tamala Krishna directly asks him ‘it is said that you were poisoned.’ Srila Prabhupada immediately answered ‘No. Not that I am poisoned.’” (pg. 24)
REPLY: Here the GBC’s rearranging of the conversation is again employed: the actual narrative is: “No. This kind of symptoms are seen when a man is poisoned. He said like that. Not that I am poisoned.” (Nov. 9, 1977) Tamal asked what someone else had said, and Srila Prabhupada replied that someone “said like that,” namely that someone spoke about symptoms, not poisoning. Srila Prabhupada did not deny his poisoning and himself spoke about actual poisoning earlier that day and AGAIN the following morning. By reading the actual conversations, it is seen that the GBC deception about “no poison” is a cover-up. These conversations are available at: www.killgurubecomeguru.org
(21). Pages 25-28: Mayeswara pathetically attempts to discredit the audio evidence further by claiming that the forensic laboratories employed were frauds, nincompoops, or bribed, etc… He suggests that the Truth Committee has been smoking marijuana. And he dismisses the “poison theory” with this defective logic: that poisoners would never be so dumb as to allow themselves to be recorded while speaking about their crime. Unless, of course, they thought that the recorder was off or would not pick up their whispering in the background… Why else would they be whispering if not to conceal their words?
(22). Page 28. Mayeswara claims that cadmium poisoning is only possible by inhalation, but this is not true. Oral ingestion is the obvious avenue for intentional cadmium poisoning. Pure cadmium would not be used, but rather a cadmium salt, such as cadmium chloride, which is water soluble, odorless, colorless, and tasteless. His science is totally off…
(23). “Still, too much prevarication seeping in from those too haughty to just admit that Reverse Speech analysis is not being used by ANY law enforcement for ANY reason because it is disregarded as sophomoric bunk.” (pg. 30)
REPLY: Yes, it was a mistake 20 years ago to include Dhaneshwara’s reverse speech work in our first book. Our 2017 book disavows reverse speech as evidence, although the CIA does, contrary to assertions above. We do have great interest in more developed methods of truth ascertainment such as voice stress analysis, used by thousands of law enforcement agencies worldwide. Mayeswara keeps looking for things to ridicule while bypassing the substantial evidence that he doesn’t want to see, such as Srila Prabhupada’s caretaker discussions about homicidal poisoning on Nov. 11, 1977.
(24). The Antidote booklet claims that we have used the poisoning of Napoleon to prove that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned. This is untrue. Reference was made to Napoleon because high levels of arsenic were found in his hair samples 150 years after his death. Reading about Napoleon’s hair tests inspired us to test Srila Prabhupada’s hair samples, by which his poisoning was scientifically confirmed. Tests on Srila Prabhupada’s hair samples have similarly found very high levels of cadmium.
“Like for example how they present Napoleon, who they allegedly portray as having also been poisoned by his inside men. This very historic example is the best the Truth Team can come up with to substantiate how Srila Prabhupada was actually poisoned.”
Mayeswara is a master of baseless ridicule, so better to call him the Joker.
C:\Users\user\Desktop\FILES TO KGBG BOOK\MEDICAL\Death Certificate.jpg(25). “Truth is the coroner diagnosed the cause of death as kidney problems due to diabetes.” (pg. 30)
REPLY: Untrue. The Vrindaban coroner stated the cause of death was “heart attack,” and this death certificate is in our book, which the Joker must have missed. The Vrindaban coroner never came to do any autopsy. No test results now exist, nor are any specifically remembered by anyone, which would have determined the extent of Srila Prabhupada’s diabetes, kidney disease, or what the cause of death was. Thus we are not contradicting any determination of any medical tests by concluding from the evidence that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned with cadmium. But in 2002-2005 Dr. Morris performed highly reliable scientific NAA hair tests that found lethal levels of cadmium. The Joker, calling us Goofy, does not know what the coroner stated, and speaks of it in error!
(26). On page 30, the Joker says we “backtracked” on our arsenic conclusion and substituted cadmium instead. The truth is that initial testing found arsenic 20 X normal, which the Delaware Chief Medical Examiner stated would be a substantial contributing factor to the demise of an elderly and ill person. Later tests found cadmium to be present 250 X normal; so both heavy metals were abnormal. Because the private investigation found new information later, does not indicate cheating or story-making, as the Joker proposes. Srila Prabhupada was poisoned primarily by cadmium, and secondarily by arsenic.
(27). On page 31, the Joker says that since cadmium is an unusual murder poison, and there are few historical examples of its use, therefore the idea that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned with it is “pathetic.” Yet that is exactly what Dr. Morris’ three separate hair tests have determined. The Joker is also a very rare and unique person, not to be found elsewhere, and thus he also is “pathetic”? Rarity does not invalidate; it simply signifies exceptionalism. Cadmium poisoning is unusual but very real.
(28). “However, despite the complete lack of exemplary evidence, those wanting to poison the faith of the innocent seem destructively determined to press on.” (pg. 32)
REPLY: The Truth Committee is not out to poison the faith of the innocent, it is out to discover the truth that will be obvious to the honest devotees. And rather than a lack of evidence, there is a mountain of it. “None so blind as those who will not see…”
(29). On page 33-34, the Joker makes much fuss about how sometimes hair tests finding near-normal levels of cadmium will not accurately reflect the actual body burden of cadmium. He presents this as though it is useless to test hair for cadmium, although other elements are not problematic. Thus he has tried to find fault in and plant doubts about the cadmium results in Dr. Morris’ hair tests. This was already explained in our book, but the Joker missed that too. An example: to feel the difference between travelling 1 or 2 mph is difficult, but if going 250 mph, there is no doubt of extreme speed. Similarly, if someone has normal or double the average levels of cadmium in his hair, it may not correlate in those same amounts to what is in his body. But if someone has 250 times normal hair cadmium, no scientist will (or has) stated that such results are meaningless or misleading. Actually, we have NINE EXPERT OPINIONS listed in Ch. 32 of our book which make it very clear that 250 times normal is lethal and “prima facie evidence of poisoning with malicious intent.” (KGBG pg. 217)
The science of hair analysis is highly advanced and reliable, and that includes tests for cadmium as well. The Joker is promoting distortions and deceit, connivingly, to cause unnecessary doubts.
image(30). In Appendix I, the Joker lists 29 studies of cadmium in hair, but admits he did not have time to study them, yet insinuates that they all cast great doubt on the value of testing hair for cadmium. This is very dishonest, as it is only one study (with very low levels), and this won’t relate to Srila Prabhupada’s sky-high and unprecedented levels that were 40 times higher than the most contaminated USA waste dump… The Joker is using selective science and bluffing us as well. SHAME on him!
(31). On page 34, the Joker again makes false accusations, saying that the Truth committee needed “at least 1 mg… but could only find 0.00012 grams of hair dust.” He states it clearly in his goofy cartoon. The truth is that Dr. Morris can accurately test these very small amounts of hair, and he did- the three cadmium tests had roughly similar levels of cadmium. AFTER the test (not before), the hair was reduced to radioactive “dust.” He also claims ICP-MS testing methodology is better than NAA, but NAA is able to test much smaller quantities than ICP-MS. His insinuations that we used the wrong testing method is scientifically unknowledgeable and another faulty faultfinding exercise. The Joker can succeed in causing doubts only in those who want to believe him and are not honest. SHAME on him!
(32). “The way it was used in analyzing Srila Prabhupada's hair is so rare this lab may have never used it for this type of purpose before and therefore the results are only nominally useful.” (pg. 35)
REPLY: Here the Joker tries to fault Dr. Morris as never having done tests on hair for elemental contents before. SHAME on him! This is completely untrue, as Dr. Morris’ specialty is testing Aztec and Peruvian mummies, including their hair, for things like arsenic, cadmium, and so on. Dr. Morris has done innumerable hair tests for all sorts of things. The Joker is the one with the devious, cheating agenda…
(33). “Another less often used NAA reason for studying hair forensics is to confirm the identity of a crime suspect by comparing samples of his hair to a strand of hair found at a crime scene.” (Pg. 35)
REPLY: Pitiful! Wrong science! It is DNA (not NAA) testing that determines the identity of the person’s hair. The Joker just threw together his rag sheet without being sure of the sciences…
(34). “Dr. Morris was apparently savvy enough to realize he was dealing with the most intoxicated members of the Goof Team, so before he took their money he issued some type of professional disclosure due to the inadequate size of the hair dust.” (pg. 35)
REPLY: Again, UNTRUE. The Joker construes something which it is not. His dishonesty and cheating process is astounding. He is not a decent or honest man, but a deliberate liar intent on deceit, even by twisting the words of other persons. Dr. Morris was explaining that with smaller samples, the accuracy declines, and this is reflected in his final report. For example, sample D was 0.00072 grams, and the finding of 19.9 ppm cadmium was 95% sure to be within [2.0] ppm either way, or from 17.9 to 21.9 ppm. But sample Q-2 was only 0.00012 grams, and the finding of 14.9 pm cadmium was 95% sure to be within [3.8] ppm either way, or from 11.1 to 18.7 ppm. Again, the reason NAA was used is because it is more accurate than ICP-MS, especially on such small amounts, upon which the accuracy is still very, very good. This attempt to discredit the NAA testing methodology and Dr. Morris is just someone peeing in the wind. The “large uncertainty” is explained above; the less the mass, the larger the range of inaccuracy, but Dr. Morris’ tests were very accurate, more than ICP-MS tests could have delivered. This degree of inaccuracy is not even close to that which would affect its meaningfulness. The Joker is just a blustering faulty faultfinder. SHAME on him! Then he depicts Dr. Morris in a cartoon, calling his nuclear reactor facility a “Hyperpure Dermanium Generator Detector.” He doubts everyone except himself!
(35). Then on pg. 36, the Joker takes another potshot at Dr. Morris:
“With all due respect to Dr. Steve Morris and his Hyperpure DermaniumGenerator Detector at the University of Missouri, he simply isn’t an expert in the field of toxicology.”
Dr. Morris is fully qualified to make a toxicological evaluation of the cadmium findings, but he did not do so, so what’s the problem? We assembled nine expert opinions to do that, one of which the Joker attempt to discredit with some spotty, irrelevant, and partial data (all he could find). We challenge the Joker (or anyone) to go find their own expert and see what 250 times normal average hair cadmium means! But the joker could not do this. So instead he finds faulty faults.
(36). Also on pg. 36, the Joker becomes an expert himself on cadmium in hair and assembles some quotes such as: “Hair analysis is not the best biological medium to serve as an indicator of […] exposures.” “Not the best” does not mean no good at all, and that does not disqualify hair analysis from being used by thousands of scientists and laboratories every day of the year, and providing meaningful and useful results. Urine testing would be better, but the super-high levels of cadmium in Srila Prabhupada’s hair samples do not require the slightly more accurate readings from urine to become meaningful or clearly indicative of a massive, catastrophic, homicidal poisoning, as ascertained by experts far more knowledgeable than the amateur scientist Mayeswara das. SHAME on him!
(37). On pg. 37, the Joker explains how he found his own expert and wrote him if: “hair analysis could be used to prove cadmium poisoning.” The answer was, “It might be possible to guess the cause of death from a hair sample of a deceased person, but often not.” Well, that sounds correct, but why didn’t the Joker tell Dr. Wilson how much cadmium was found in Srila Prabhupada’s hair? Dr. Wilson is an expert in “nutritional balance” when a person is not poisoned, but may have some “nutritional imbalances.” Experts listed in our book ascertained that Srila Prabhupada had lethal, catastrophic, homicidal levels. The Joker is grasping for any negative insinuation he can manufacture. SHAME on him!
(38). GBC wanted to do hair tests, namely the ones which were completed by the Truth Committee, and also the official GBC investigator Balavanta das did hair tests. So the GBC does believe in hair tests, but the Joker does not, as is evident by his finding fault in hair analysis science. This is simply sour grapes philosophy; if the hair tests do not show there was no poisoning, then they must be defective!
(39). Also on pg. 37, the Joker gives three quotes from a 2001 Hair Analysis Panel Discussion to try and establish that Srila Prabhupada’s ultra-high cadmium could have come from exogenous sources, namely air dust, shampoo, massage oil, or anything external. The problem of external sources contaminating hair and thus getting a false reading for what was inside the body is a real one which scientists face all the time. However, it does not apply to our situation because the cadmium levels were so high that no external source of contamination could produce such readings. For Srila Prabhupada’s hair to have been externally contaminated to the level of 250 X normal quickly rules out external contamination. Also Dr. Morris examined the hair samples beforehand under a high-powered microscope and saw no external contamination. If there was any significant contamination, he would have seen it, and it was not there. Again, that the levels were so astronomically high, such that we could not find any previous instance of these levels in the scientific literatures, including studies of external contaminations, means only that Srila Prabhupada was maliciously poisoned with sufficient cadmium chemicals to achieve those levels. External contamination may cause cadmium readings in hair tests maybe to double, but not 250 X normal. All these arguments, such as it was the cadmium in medicines, massage oils, shampoo, air, dust, smoke, pesticide-treated food, etc- are thus seriously and fatally faulty.
Trace contaminations will never add up to 250 times above the average normal.
(40). On pg. 38, the Joker tries to discredit hair analysis again by referring to corruption in the FBI where hundreds of trial cases were given biased testimony by FBI agents to favor the prosecution. However, this is a matter of misrepresentation of accurate results in hair tests, not of inaccurate hair test results. Again, the Joker tries to deceive and mislead us- HE is the one with the dishonest agenda looking for any devious way to cover the truth. It was the testimony by FBI agents that was in error due to agency corruption. SHAME on him! Again, the GBC favored doing hair tests, so why doesn’t the Joker?
(41). On pg. 39 the Joker complains that the Truth Committee had in effect stolen the GBC hair samples when they were sent to Dr. Morris, and thus the tests are questionable. However, the truth is that the GBC abandoned their hair samples in Wisconsin, declining to pay the costs, and the GBC book states:
“We will fully cooperate by providing full details of the specimens, which are already at a lab in the US, and what were their origins. If there are some who feel strongly that this investigation should be done, then they are more than welcome to come forward and meet the costs associated with it.”
The Joker also complains that we “intentionally misled” Dr. Agasie in Wisconsin by claiming to be colleagues of the GBC. Yes, we assisted Balavanta and the GBC in finding Dr. Morris, and have assisted in completing the investigation into this case, and may be called “adversarial colleagues.” The GBC wanted Dr. Morris to do the tests and offered that others could pay for them, so we took that offer and paid for the tests. What’s the problem here? Again, the Joker is just throwing mud all around to see if some might stick somewhere. We don’t claim perfection, but so far, he hasn’t had much luck!
(42). On pg. 39 the Joker gets his hair samples mixed up, referring to ND-2 as one with high cadmium. However, ND-2 had normal cadmium levels. Then he implies that the “poison theory” is invalid because an expert stated that these super-high cadmium levels means death within a few days, and Srila Prabhupada lived for nine months longer. Yes, we also are amazed how Srila Prabhupada appeared well one day, ill the next day, and “survived” for so long in spite of severe poisoning. But, sorry, our lack of understanding on this matter does not invalidate the results of Dr. Morris’ hair tests.
image(43). On pg. 40 and elsewhere the Joker tries to establish that there are prohibitive difficulties specific to cadmium levels in the body and hair, and he gives some short quotes that appear to support this contention. However, again, various conundrums may appear when comparing normal cadmium levels to slightly elevated levels; the slight abnormality could be attributed to many factors. But Srila Prabhupada’s hair was not slightly elevated; it was astronomically elevated. So these objections do not apply at all. Wrong again! Actually, the same HAPD document he quoted from clearly states:
“Substances/elements for which reliable analyses exist include […] cadmium.” (pg. C-40)
(44). “When their first conspiracy assault was no longer gleaning the attention they wanted to sustain, they came up with three more hair samples to test, but this time they made sure the alleged testing suggested that the amounts of Cadmium were unequivocally deadly.” (pg. 40)
REPLY: The Truth Committee did not come up with three more hair samples to test; this was done by Hari Sauri das and his Australian assistant Deva Gaurahari das. “Alleged” testing? The Joker insinuates fraud on the part of the Truth Committee and Dr. Morris, but he does not show where this fraud exists. What we would like is more true expert opinions instead of so much fluff and deceit from the Joker, who is the last thing from an expert. SHAME on him!
(45). On pg. 40 the Joker contends that cadmium poisoning is “just too unpredictable, complicated, risky, and unreliable” and that cadmium always accumulates in the body slowly over years and that large amounts of cadmium will simply pass through without being absorbed into the blood. This is scientifically incorrect. SHAME on him! In our book we featured the entire clinical description of a lady who ingested spoonfuls of cadmium chloride and the results. She died quickly, suffered greatly in the interim, and is one of many cases that prove cadmium salts poisoning works all too well.
(46). On pg. 41 the Joker concludes Srila Prabhupada’s levels of cadmium were “impossible” and thus tries to discredit the “poison theory.” But these levels are a fact established by very advanced science and scientists, reflected in all the quoted experts in our book, none of whom agree with the Joker as to the impossibility of these levels. The Joker’s weird science is faulty, biased, and misinterpreted over and over because his agenda is to deny the “poison theory.” He does not prove that Srila Prabhupada was not poisoned via his own scientific tests; he simply tries to create doubts in the science and the tests that prove Srila Prabhupada WAS poisoned. Sour grapes man. SHAME on him!
(47). On pg. 41-45, the Joker speculates on various possibilities, such as that Srila Prabhupada, having ingested or absorbed cadmium tainted mustard seeds and oil all his life, became immune to cadmium, even though he had high levels of cadmium and he departed due to other causes, not cadmium. However, millions of others who always use mustard seeds and oil should then also have ultra-high levels of cadmium, but this is not the case. Where are the case studies of 250 X normal cadmium due to mustard seeds? There are none! So why does he bring up this idea? Because he is dishonest.
(48). On pg. 47 the Joker has the audacity to state (and this really takes the cake):
“The fact that NOBODY called the police or felt it was necessary to have a blood test done was because none of the people who were there had any reason to believe that Srila Prabhupada was being poisoned. He never came out and said that to anyone…”
REPLY: So many devotees who have read or listened to the recordings where Srila Prabhupada speaks about being poisoned believe that Srila Prabhupada knew what he was talking about and this is the strongest evidence of poisoning. We present just three direct quotes that disprove his assertion:
“Someone gave him poison here!” Bhakti Charu Swami (Nov. 10, 1977)
“Prabhupada was thinking that someone had poisoned him?” Tamal Krishna Goswami (Nov. 10, 1977)
“That same thing that I said, that someone has poisoned me.” Srila Prabhupada (Nov. 10, 1977)
Still, the Joker goes on to say that Srila Prabhupada must have been talking about medicine or something else than actual poisoning, because, perhaps very technically, he never directly states that he was for sure being poisoned. And because he is able to inject 2% doubt, the Joker asserts there was no poisoning as evidenced in Srila Prabhupada’s words. This is amazing, and shows how far persons will go to bypass, overlook, dismiss, prevaricate, and obscure real, solid evidence and reach their preferred conclusions to support their model and paradigm lest their reality collapse, which would mean facing a huge emotional, philosophic, and practical readjustment in life. We want to know why no one called the police or had blood tests done! It was not because there was no reason to do so!
This is amazing, summarized as this: “None are so blind as those who will not see.”
(49). On pg. 49, the Joker has a cartoon which accuses us of using the following as evidence:
Rumors: There may be rumors of something, as smoke indicates a fire, but we never claimed rumors were to be used as facts and solid evidence. We always were clear what was what.
Astrology: This is a valid and great science, and is useful, although we never claimed it proved anything because in Kali yuga there are no great astrologers, only mediocre ones.
Hair Dust: No hair dust was tested, but after the tests, the hair became dust.
Dirt Files: Unfortunately there is lots of dirt in this material world, so we are to be “Pollyannas”?
Guess Work, Speculations: Our book is always very clear about what are facts or possibilities.
Dreams: If some dreams help to make sense out of reality, so be it. This is up to the reader.
Payoffs, Hallucinations, Ghosts: What does he refer to here? He gives no examples.
Voice Stress: Yes, we did some of these tests and they confirmed that the prime suspects were very untruthful with Srila Prabhupada in late 1977. Voice stress analysis is widely used by law enforcement/courts in crime solving, and we hope to employ this truth ascertainment technology in determining exactly who was involved in or had knowledge of Srila Prabhupada’s poisoning.
Opinions: Everyone is entitled to their opinion, expressed for consideration by others. No wrong here.
Bribes, Palm Reading: The Joker fails to give any evidence of bribes or palm readings.
(50). “They are the ones who also assert that by March of 1977 the cadmium accrued to 300 times more than anyone could survive! …How could he have possibly survived 300 times the lethal limit and then live for another 8 months?” (pg. 50)
REPLY: Untrue. This is a total twisting of everything, sorry. It is “up to 300 X more than the average normal person,” not the lethal limit. Big difference. Let’s get our science straight.
(51). On pg. 54, the Joker tries to explain away Tamal’s mercy-killing interview where he states:
“A number of times he would say ‘Can you give me a medicine, please give me a medicine that will allow me to disappear now.’ Another time he said ‘I want most now to disappear. I want to die peacefully. Let me die peacefully.’”
Nothing close to Tamal’s claims exist on any other recorded tapes, and neither has any other witness verified these claims by Tamal. The Joker presents the issue as emotional confusion by Tamal, which may have existed or not (it is irrelevant). Tamal clearly states that Srila Prabhupada wanted his assistance in suicide, which is preposterous and extremely suspicious. Combined with other evidences, we can say Tamal was making excuses for the now scientifically proven fact of Srila Prabhupada’s poisoning. Tamal’s interview would be simply distasteful if Srila Prabhupada’s hair tests showed no poisoning, but they do show poisoning. Then, Tamal is suspected, due to his own words. Emotional confusion does not answer why Tamal said these things!
(52). “Tamal Krishna Goswami has been very unfairly accused, tried, and condemned by this kangaroo-court of self-appointed prosecutors. That is why so many learned and sober devotees don’t give any credence to any aspect of this completely concocted conspiracy fable. The whole thing is founded on the worst form of envious stinking-thinking that only a wicked mind could possibly dream up.” (pg. 55)
REPLY: The illogical response here is that since some are being unfairly suspected or accused of Srila Prabhupada’s poisoning, this proves there was no poisoning at all. First we must deal with whether there was a poisoning or not. The evidence conclusively proves that Srila Prabhupada was indeed poisoned with sky-high levels of cadmium over at least 8 or 9 months. Such a poisoning was deliberate, malicious, and homicidal; there is no other plausible explanation. Further, senior men were recorded on tape speaking about poisoning. They had a huge motive to poison Srila Prabhupada, were extremely ruthless and ambitious, as history shows in their words and actions, they gained enormous material benefits upon his departure. They took over the movement illegitimately, lying about being appointed as the next acharyas. Tamal’s history/ character is infamous, and it is only natural for so many devotees to suspect him of the now proven poisoning, especially in light of all the evidence that clearly implicates him. Let’s not be naïve here, and allow the threat of “Vaishnava aparadha” to prevent clear thinking.
(53). “Most of what makes up all the so-called evidence in this dispute is circumstantial at best, irrelevant or just hurdy-gurdy side-bar ostentation.” (pg. 55)
REPLY: So says the Joker, but why is it that so many are taking this evidence seriously? It is because the facts and evidence have a very strong ring of truth, have solid credibility, and are substantial. Whether or not this case ever makes it to a mundane court of law does not mean Srila Prabhupada was not poisoned. Court convictions are for WHO poisoned, not for WHETHER there was a poisoning. There’s a big difference. Admittedly, court convictions of poisoners is always much harder to obtain than proof of the crime. The hair tests are the smoking gun. That’s why in this case the court of public opinion is so important- we are appealing to the intelligence of devotees by presenting the facts and evidence for their evaluation. And this truth campaign has been very effective.
(54). “The fact that the hair samples, which changed hands many times, were not stored in a clean, controlled environment and could have even been stolen and replaced with other hairs by a zealot disciple, are all possible.” (Pg. 55)
REPLY: The chain of custody of the three cadmium hair samples is impeccable and fully documented. The GBC had custody of them throughout, and the Truth Committee simply paid for the tests. Remember, Dr. Morris was employed by the GBC through Balavanta das. The custodians were Hari Sauri, Sesa, Deva Gaurahari, and Balavanta, all of whom the GBC fully trusts. Further, we challenge the GBC to agree to moderated testing of further hair samples which we are confident will confirm the triple confirmations received so far. Now really, how difficult would it be to stage or tamper with three separate hair samples that would come out with such similar cadmium levels and not something else? To fraudulently arrange these results, as is suggested by the Joker, would be something even the CIA could not pull off. Tampering is not a concern. It is just another doubt injected by the Joker, who will say anything to cause confusion. All of his doubt-mongering has been found to be baseless exaggerations and dishonest deceptions. Also, the proof that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned does not rely solely on these three cadmium hair tests. There is plenty of other evidence as well.
The chain of custody is documented and not in question. Why else would the GBC and their agents arrange these tests in hopes of disproving arsenic poisoning if the samples were not authentic? These hair samples have been authenticated by the GBC, Hari sauri, and Deva Gaurahari. The GBC fully expected a negative result and had no motive to fudge with the authenticity of the samples because they wanted to disprove the poison proposition.
(55). “Keep in mind those in the law enforcement business tell us that when someone is murdered with poison, it is rarely done by any more than one very secretive assailant. It simply doesn’t require more than one person and it doesn’t make any sense for an assassin to involve anyone else.” (Pg. 56)
REPLY: This is an interesting question: why would there be a need for more than one person to poison Srila Prabhupada? Well, a takeover of the institution would be hard to pull off by just one man, but if key men who could influence and control the GBC body, then it would work. Therefore Tamal needed allies. Also there are three different people involved in the forensically-certified “poison whispers.” So that very strongly indicates at least three participants.
(56). On pages 56-57, the Joker writes about Chandra Swami and about how ridiculous it was that we hinted maybe Chandra Swami was not an appropriate supplier of Srila Prabhupada’s medicines in 1977 since he has been implicated in assassinations, murder, bribery, political frame-ups, and so much more. It is not clear exactly what he is protesting however, so we cannot respond in much detail. Sorry.
(57). “If this were heard by a trial jury, the prosecuting attorney would have to explain with great detail where the poison was acquired, who obtained it and how they learned to administer it.” (Pg. 69)
REPLY: The Joker goes on to ridicule the idea of cadmium poisoning because it is so “complicated” and “difficult,” joking that maybe Tamal was in the back alley making cadmium potions with NiCad batteries and hydrochloric acid. But anyone with a basic idea of chemistry could simply acquire a few teaspoons of cadmium chloride and administer a tiny bit whenever wanted. Maybe Chandra Swami told someone how to do it; maybe someone studied chemistry in college, as Bhakti Charu did for years in Germany; there are many possibilities. We don’t know for sure. But the hair tests prove that a lethal poisoning took place and now we want to find who did it. If this case does enter the legal system, it will be in India and prosecuted by the government, so the Joker might want to advise the CID over there. And in between all his goofy cartoons, jokes,and ridicule, there is one reminder: We are dealing with a mountain of evidence that insiders tried to murder Srila Prabhupada, now scientifically proven to have actually happened. And, this is really no laughing matter.
(58). The last parts of the Joker’s booklet became more incoherent by the page so we decided to stop. The summary is that his “work” is all deceptive huff and puff, much ado about nothing, self-contradictory, and basically unscientific mudslinging. His material meets with a fail grade, sorry.
(59). An ISKCON sannyasi guru compiled for us some points that the Joker had supposedly made:
“Toxicologists warn to not equate high levels of cadmium in hair with illness, as there is no demonstrated connection between the two.” This refers to amounts close to normal and would not apply to levels 250 X normal as found in Srila Prabhupada’s hair.
“Hair analysis is a very undeveloped science and so-called experts can come up with highly different results from the same sample.” Again, this refers to slightly elevated levels and not the catastrophic and lethal levels Srila Prabhupada had in his hair. Also, the vast majority of sources hold the science of hair analysis in high esteem and it is used worldwide everywhere.
“One of the forensic analysts to whom hair was submitted said that the quantity was far too low to give any meaningful result.” This is untrue and a fabrication. The quantities were more than sufficient to obtain very accurate readings. See item 31 above.
“An accepted medical principle is that laboratory tests on hair should be cross-checked by other standard ways of examining the body.” Well, yes, the more verifications the better. So will ISKCON leaders be amenable to cooperate on further tests or will they just continue denials? Still, so far the three separate tests of high cadmium and three tests of normal cadmium represent a very substantial testing regime which is cross-correlated and confirmatory.
“Cadmium poisoning is unusual and is always by oral inhalation.” Untrue and dumb wrong.
“Cadmium ingested via the mouth is passed out of the body without being absorbed.” Tell that to those who were poisoned with cadmium chemicals. Some accounts are given in our book. Again, this is untrue and scientifically, dumb wrong. Cadmium chemicals are readily absorbed in the gut.
“The forensics consulted by the authors of KGBG were unreliable. Some were not experts in that field and some were fly-by-night scammers.” Untrue. The Joker made a fuss about Great Smoky Diagnostics from whose website we borrowed a sentence regarding how external contamination of hair works, but we never used that lab. The Joker also tried to discredit CAE and Jack Mitchell, but we have their credentials and expertise documented. Just lies. False accusations. Mudslinging.
So the Joker may succeed in befooling some parties with his faulty faultfinding and mudslinging, and this is to be expected in Kali yuga and especially in and around ISKCON, where the Joker has deep loyalties and motivations to defend by using any means whatsoever, generally via falsehoods.
(60). Elsewhere Mayeswara das made a fuss about the use of the quote from Srila Prabhupada where he says, “This is my only request, that at the last stage don’t torture me and put to death.” Ten days previous to that, Srila Prabhupada stated: “Don’t move me to the hospital. Better kill me here.” So what is misconstrued by us here? Srila Prabhupada doesn’t want to be put in the hospital, yes. But it is very strange, to say the least, that he asked his caretakers not to torture or kill him. Later he speaks about preferring to be killed by Rama than by Ravana. So who is the Ravana? Not much about these statements is innocuous, and that is why they have been quoted in the Truth Committee films.
(61). “There are none so blind as those who will not see, nor none so deaf as those who will not hear.” The proof is there to see and hear, but some cannot or will not see or hear it. It is counter-productive to waste one’s valuable time to try to convince those who are dishonest at heart or who are not open to truths higher than their own limited understandings. Those who cling to the conviction that Srila Prabhupada was not poisoned, in spite of the mountain of evidence that proves it, will even try to explain away why Srila Prabhupada said he was poisoned, why the science of hair analysis is invalid, why the “poison theory” is crazy and inconceivable, and so on. Such people are like the old saying:
You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink, or it is not possible to wake up someone pretending to be asleep. It is no use to deal with people like this, just as we do not waste time trying to deal with fanatical Christians. They have a paradigm of beliefs which would otherwise be very threatened. ISKCON-ites have much at stake. If Srila Prabhupada was poisoned, it would mean the end of their world as it is now and many changes could be ushered in, leaving their futures uncertain and insecure. The ramifications of this truth are enormous for the Hare Krishna movement.
ISKCON misleaders and their supporters like Mayeswara das must resort to lies, deceit, fraud, misrepresentation, misquoting, information overload, controlling the narrative, false assertions, the big lie strategy, institutional obstruction, and all sorts of dishonesty to desperately stave off the bright light of truth that is now blinding them in the face. Instead they take shelter of argumentativeness such as:
“It is rather astonishing that you find the fallacies of reasoning in the Poison Antidote Paper but do not see fallacies such as the Ad Nausian (sic) Fallacy, Vividness Fallacy, Entrenchment Fallacy, Straw man fallacy and Confirmation Bias Fallacies in the Srila Prabhupada has been poisoned theory. So if you are unable to recognize all these other reasoning errors then it is our opinion that you are engulfed by the Attention Bias Fallacy.”
By the way, the Joker just invented these five new logical fallacies. Very fertile imagination! Also they will go on and on about how the “poison rumor” is so harmful:
“This poison conspiracy has caused so much alienation, hurt, resentment, and chaos in all branches of the Vaishnava community, and this rumor has been so disruptive to Lord Chaitanya’s movement.”
Yes, the truth sometimes hurts, but ultimately it is healing, and is the only right path to follow. We should hide in ignorance of the truth, afraid of it? Let us determine the truth and go with that. No one knows who to trust these days, as the world is so full of cheaters. Even the GBC and ISKCON gurus have disappointed us time and again. As such, each one of us must use our God-given intelligence to ascertain our truths/the truth, regardless what we are being told. We only ask that devotees study the facts and evidence and judge for themselves.
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada!
http://killgurubecomeguru.org/books/
- Nityananda das -
srigovinda@gmail.com
Please also see:
How IskCon brainwashes Devotees
The Dumbed Down Disciple
Yes Mayeswara and Torben Nielsen make no sense? Issues such as: The bogus guru appointment, the book changes, the child abuse, the missing letters, the poison issue -- and so on and so forth, are not so much valid because -- the ritviks forwarded all these issues before anyone else did? What does that have to do with any of this? The poison issue is Srila Prabhupada's statements?
ReplyDeleteSo we should worship the kill guru and become gurus party instead? It appears to us that Toben worships the Judas party, then he says, anyone who does not worship his Judas pals program is a deviant. Did we forget to mention, Torben's Judas program is also changing the books? Rocana says that the apparent people who poisoned Prabhupada are the appointed diksha gurus, and Torben promotes Rocana?
Anyway Mayesvara, Torben, the GBC, the Gaudiya Matha, none of these people has any good explanations for any of this stuff. We do, its all deviation if not crimes.
ys pd