The GBC committee administers -- Krishna and His acharyas?
[PADA: OK this group are people like Kim Moller, Ajit Krishna, Torben Neilsen, Rocana, Kailash and of course the bogus GBC.]
BVKS fan: There is a lot of things within our society that's not optimal yet and for sure the present guru system is problematic, within an institution and that is what SP wanted, we must have some regulation of its gurus and therefor a board of Sannyasi gurus would be optimal, but simply to shoot with a scattergun of general blame and complaints reveals some obvious maya.
PADA: First of all, you have not shown even one quote where Srila Prabhupada says that the "parampara of gurus from Krishna" are under the control of a Governing Body that you admit, "makes many mistakes"? I am not seeing that? Now you BVKS folks say that these gurus who fell down are part of the process of institutional gurus. That is exactly why Srila Prabhupada said, do not make institutional gurus like the Gaudiya Matha has done.
Where does Srila Prabhupada say we should have institutional gurus who are "making many mistakes"? You folks are really not answering the point? Yes, there are many rules for the GBC, including that when they deviate they have to be replaced. So why are BVKS folks saying the guru parampara FROM GOD contains deviants who "make many mistakes," and then the deviants have to be replaced? That means BVKS folks are saying the guru parampara is like a conditioned soul mundane business where the leader of the business is caught cheating, so he is replaced. The guru is like a business man, or a politician like Richard Nixon who "makes many mistakes" -- and then -- has to be replaced?
The guru parampara is like a mundane business affair? Or politicians?
OK! According to you, the Gaudiya guru parampara has deviants who are making many mistakes and have to be replaced! Yet, in shastra there is apparently, no such thing as the parampara being under the control of a committee that is "making a lot of mistakes"? It does not matter if the people making these mistakes are grhasthas or sanyasas either, people who are making mistakes are still in the category of conditioned souls.
You are mixing up a Governing Body, where these devotees are still neophyte conditioned souls who will make mistakes, with the guru parampara, where there are no conditioned souls who make these mistakes. The rules for the conditioned souls do not apply to the pure. ys pd
BVKS fan: "Now you BVKS folks says that these gurus who fell down are part of the process of institutional gurus" where do we say that, show me?
PADA: You just said the institution (of gurus under the control of a GBC that makes mistakes) is the institution Srila Prabhupada wanted? You also said these gurus are problematic, which means you are saying these gurus are conditioned souls and not pure. Your gurus are "problematic" -- because they are conditioned souls and not gurus.
Or are you saying actually bona fide gurus are pure representatives of God, therefore, they create problems because God's representatives are trouble makers, and full of mistakes? Why does BVKS folks say that the guru parampara is causing troubles? And if the guru parampara is causing troubles for others, then why would anyone want to surrender to it? It sounds like BVKS clan is making the guru parampara as un-attractive as it possible can, its full of problematic people, its full of mistakes, ok the guru parampara from God is like your old drunk uncle Fred, who causes problems and he makes mistakes?
And now you said these institutional gurus are "regulated" by the institutional committee -- that makes these "many mistakes"? How can the guru be regulated by people who make many mistakes, and how is this the institution Srila Prabhupada wanted? Where does he say he wants gurus to be regulated by people who are making many mistakes? Where does Srila Prabhupada say that the guru is regulated by conditioned souls who make mistakes, and we should institutionalize this process? ys pd
BVKS fan: You are making up stories as usual, its very simple, Srila Prabhupada set up an institution and never anywhere asked His devotees to leave The Greater ISKCON, quite the contrary, so just a little logic proves that The Greater ISKCON must have its guru instead of spreading to all kinds of branches, this was also the idea of Srila Prabhupadas guru maharaja and HDG clearly said that after His demise, disciples could if qualified take up the service of guru, in fact He expected ALL His disciples to raise to that platform.
PADA: So gurus who are being problematic, voted in, suspended, removed and controlled by people making mistakes, and gurus falling into sexual deviations etc. is your idea of ISKCON? Where does Srila Prabhupada says that gurus falling into deviations left, right and center, is ISKCON? Srila Prabhupada said that his disciples are not qualified YET to be diksha gurus, that is why he set up a Governing Body process and not a guru process. ys pd
BVKS fan: I did not say that all are not pure devotees, that is again your invented story, therefore a board of gurus is wanted and not grihastas.... You are as usual generalizing and shooting with scattergun and in this way committing great offence and for this reason nobody likes to hear from you. In history gurus has always been falling prey to deviations also of sexual character, nothing new under the sun, the question is how an institution want deal with it.
PADA: So now you BVKS folks are saying the guru parampara is full of sexual deviations, and its nothing new? Which previous acharyas are sexual deviants? Anyway right, the GBC said in 1978 that they are subordinated to the "Acharya Board" and there is no actual GBC anymore, the Acharya Board over-steps the GBC authority.
What is an acharya board?
Where is this acharya board mentioned by Srila Prabhupada? And since the acharya board is also making mistakes, according to you, what kind of acharya board is "problematic" and "making many mistakes"? Is that how an acharya board operates? And since the guru is above the GBC, because he is in direct connection with Krishna, how can you say the board manages the guru, when the guru is superior to a Governing body? How can the board over-step the guru who is getting dictation from God?
And worse, now you BVKS folks say this board of gurus -- makes many mistakes? How does a board of gurus make many mistakes? And now you say, because I do not accept that gurus are making many mistakes, I am an offender? No, Srila Prabhupada says that people who say gurus are conditioned souls (who make mistakes) are the offenders.
Gurusuh narah matih narakah sah, anyone who thinks guru is ordinary man who makes mistakes, is a resident of narakah, you need to cite shastra here. Anyway, you finally came out with your real idea, the parampara has deviants, who have to be controlled by a committee of people, and the committee is comprised of people who are making many mistakes.
Nope! People who fall prey to sexual deviations are not gurus, this is known even to the karmi man on the street! Conditioned souls are subject to being prey to sexual deviations, and not gurus, even the kindergarten children know deviants are not, were not, could not have been gurus. ys pd
BVKS fan: Your conclusion is worse than kindergarten and there for its waste of time talking to you. What I say is, and try to read careful if possible, is that gurus have been falling down through history, nothing new under the sun and it happened also in Bhaktisiddhanta's time, so what is your problem with this fact? To you such talk is sense enjoyment and there for you put words in peoples mouth and invent crazy conclusions.
PADA: Why is the BVKS clan saying gurus in our Gaudiya Vaishnava guru parampara were falling down all the time, even at the time of Srila Saraswati? Who were they? Name one! Srila Prabhupada says it is an offense to say his parampara contains deviants. Why is the BVKS clan always trying to establish that Krishna and his guru parampara are defective, problematic, full of mistakes, and so they need to be administered by the committee, oooops and the committee has the same program, it is also problematic and full of mistakes? How can you fix your problematic and mistaken gurus, with a committee full of problematic and mistaken individuals?
Right, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta says that the gurus who have illicit sex are already monkeys, they are already residents of the lower regions, and they will become monkeys in their next life. Markat vairaghya.
Now you say, you do not see any problem with worship of these monkeys? Even kindergarten children do not worship monkeys? Srila Prabhupada also says that gurus who have sex with followers are exactly like a father having sex with his daughter. He never said this was part of our parampara, he said this is a deviation. ys pd