Would you please accept my humble obeisances? All glories to our beloved Srila Prabhupada.
There are 8 reasons why I wrote to my spiritual master, Mukunda Goswami, about the Lokanatha Swami case. I kindly request you to please ponder these core reasons and then agree to do the needful: remove Lokanatha Swami from his current status and position in ISKCON.
These extracts are from a longer and private letter to him.
1. The original GBC sub-committee, of which you (Mukunda Maharaja) were a part, failed to follow the GBC Resolutions of 1989, 1990 and 1992, which stipulates that any child molestation case must be reported to local law enforcement agencies;
2. The GBC should have upheld and enforced, through proper monitoring, the sanctions placed upon Lokanath Swami - since then he has initiated more than 5000 devotees, whilst at the same time not alluding these new initiates to the crime he has admitted (which was one of the sanctions);
3. Covering-up and watering down the case creates, by default, accomplices to the crime;
4. The GBC sub-committee decided to tone down the case (evident from confidential correspondences amongst them) because they did not want to, “ruin Lokanath Swami’s life.” Which begs the question: Did the committee members consider whether his abuse ruined his victim’s life?;
5. The GBC must uphold, in practice, their zero tolerance of child abuse cases, irrespective of who the perpetrators are. No one is above the law of the land nor ISKCON law;
6. The GBC must refer all cases to be investigated independently, without fear and favour, by the CPO;
7. Anyone associated with this case who transgressed (inadvertently or not) from proper procedures, policies and practices should consider offering a public apology to the ISKCON devotee community, the victim and the victim’s family.
8. The GBC’s reputation is in tatters.
I beg to remain your servant in the service of ISKCON, the Vaisnavas and Srila Prabhupada.
Sincerely.
HD dasa
KD: Its interesting that you, the disciple, have to instruct your guru how to behave ethically and legally. What is the point of having a guru if you are the teacher?
HD dasa: No I’m not instructing my spiritual master. I’m non-prescriptive. It is for him to decide what is in his best interest - and of others. He is my diksa guru, and often he consults with me because that’s the sort of relationship I have with him. I would not consider my relationship with my guru as mature if I’m merely a “Mr Nice Guy” or a Yes-man. Read “No more Mr Nice Guy”
SW DASI: What do you suggest Lokanaths disciples do? Do they need re initiation?
HD dasa: That’s a decision between maharaja and his disciples. A precedent has been set in ISKCON.
SM: You have to ask yourself, "If Srila Prabhupada was still here, what would He do about this Swami who fondled a child's vagina?" You already know the answer.
GS DASI: Excellent question. So how do we find out what would Srila Prabhupada do?
HD dasa: Gita Seva study his writings, teachings, recordings, follow his example, and then walk the talk.
SM dasa: Go read his books and you might have an idea. By books I mean the unedited versions, not the bs that has been made "more correct" by the gbc and iskcon.
VS: You can add one more point. 9. The GBC committee of which you are a part have not followed the `Direction of Management` which was laid out by Silla Prabhupada directing the conduct of GBC. It states that all GBC must be elected every 3 years by temple presidents.
GV: By temple presidents... who themselves should be elected once in 4 years (not as a lifetime position seen too often)...
VG: That’s got nothing to do with this case.
AVA: What is the date of this letter? Any reply?
HD dasa: 29/03/22. Sent yesterday via snail mail to MG.
GS: Thanks HD Prabhu. I believe every effort for child protection is very valuable to Srila Prabhupada and Krsna.
[PADA: Yep, even after all the scandals, horrible publicity, massive lawsuits, alienating thousands of molested children, and assorted banning, beating, molesting, suing and killing people, ad infinitum, Mukunda Maharaja still evidently does not know pedophiles should not be promoted as messiahs? ys pd]
[PADA: Tulsi seems to have become the darling of current Russian news media these days. She is being named by Russia media as "our girlfriend Tulsi" and is being shown in her "on air" exchanges etc. on Russia TV with Russian translations and so on.
Personally, I am not able to understand her points sometimes. "We" have to defend and secure the bio-labs in Ukraine. OK that means "we" would invade Ukraine to secure the labs there, which might cause a few billion people to die if this escalates further? Or what is the plan? "We" have no ability to secure a peanut over there, without our being there. She never gives a follow up explanation for her plan.
Sorry "we" invading the place for securing anything over there is going to cause more friction. Right now Russian army guys are digging trenches in Chernobyl and getting radiation sickness. These guys do not care about "securing" anything over there, nuclear, chemical, biological or anything else. They are driving their army tanks into the red forest, kicking up nuclear dust, making themselves very sick. They don't even care about themselves, never mind the citizens.
The problem is, she now seems to be viewed as a stooge / dupe / puppet / agent of the bad guys and that is not good -- for her, or the image of the Krishna religion.
Right now Russia is blocking all the water and sewage in Ukraine, so they are turning the whole place into a biological bomb of badly decomposing refuse all over the country. Obviously, that is an extreme bio-hazard itself.
Never mind they are planting land mines all over which little children are stepping onto etc. They do not care about securing dangerous things, at all. Their whole plan has been to bomb the whole place into an uninhabitable wasteland -- of burned out buildings -- full of the dead, because that is how they operate repeatedly.
So the USA is making sanctions, and that is bad for the Russian people. Well ok, but what else should be done exactly. She really does not say? In sum, it looks like Tulsi being the darling of Russian TV is going to make her look very bad in the public eye, or worse, as an apologist for the trouble maker guys. She should not be doing all this in our opinion.
Yes, Ukraine is corrupt. So is everywhere else. Whatever the problem is, bombing babies, pregnant women and old people -- is not the solution. And right now, it is looking like she is encouraging the invaders and bombers. That cannot be good for the people of Ukraine either. How do the people of Ukraine benefit when she is on the TV of the invader's media machine?
Tulsi! Zip it please! You are digging a hole for yourself, maybe digging a hole for a lot of other people, and for the other Krishnas. This will not end well for her, or for us. And thanks JD, yes Putin and Putana, are both attacking children. I got it! Tulsi we love you! You have a good heart, you mean well, but you are stepping into a big pile of dog manure, and it is going to cause a stink -- even for us.
And if Tulsi or anyone else has an actual solution, she clearly has not explained what it is -- just like lots of PADA critics write to tell me how horrible PADA is, but they do not tell us what else is the better plan -- nor do they execute the better plan. Notice, she avoids mentioning that meat eating causes war?
She is not addressing the root of the rot. Srila Prabhupada says we cannot always make adjustments to suppress karma, and -- he is right. What is the root of all these Kali Yuga wars, she should explain that. She does not. There are no actual mundane solutions to mundane situations. We need to educate people on the process of getting karma free, and going on the mundane media of the materialistic society and offering mundane solutions -- is not doing that.
SD: It's alarming that Premananda who abused his authority to molest young men is now involved in a school, where he could potentially groom and molest the students. I would advise anyone involved in the school to please (1) take child protection training, and (2) remove anyone with a past of sexual predatory behavior from associating with the children, including Premananda and anyone else.
I tried to address this with the two ladies who posted: Krishna Priya Peterson and Jennifer Hans, and they both blocked me. As parents, we need to look out for the safety of our children. As a community, we need to look out for the safety of our children. Edited to add: this is a school started by devotees in the Narayan Maharaja / Gaudiya Math circle.
KD: You're rapidly becoming the most blocked person on FB.
SD: I have to say I don't get it. Maybe they don't have any kids of their own, but you would expect better from schoolteachers.
KP: KD has three kids. I don’t know about Jennifer.
JN: They are not schoolteachers
DS: "Cognitive Dissonance" you said it, this is the #1 principle that our popular predators have going in their favor. All sociopaths rely on this principle to enable the perpetuation of their exploitation program. Because the principle is reliable, dependable, and always works on over half of any given population. Therefore the whistleblowers and exposers are always the minority, who are easily sidelined and demonized.
GM: Premananda is referred to as “Sripad” in this post. At some point, parents have to take responsibility for the well being of their child.
SD: Yep. That is why I am sharing.
BA DASI: It’s hard to do that unless one has accurate information as well an understanding of high likely repeat offense is, according to statistics.
GM: When one is protecting one’s family especially helpless children, always assume 100% probability of repeat offense. Even if someone hasn’t done any offense, please make sure that your kids are protected
KS DASI: CPT is tough Job.
SD: The ISKCON Child Protection Office deals with child abuse within ISKCON. This post refers to devotees in the Narayan Maharaja / Gaudiya Math circle.
DH: Take them out of that school all together ---- at this point change is doubtful--like beating a dead horse.
LSD: Can you text me individually about him. Where you obtained this info. When and where this all happened? It is crucial to know. Thank you.
SD: I can share here. One of Premananda's victims has come forward publicly. He wrote about his abuse here: https://docs.google.com/.../1u13j2uJYUq7qwqln3G-KqTJUJc.../ he knows other victims who are too afraid to come forward because of the backlash they will receive from Premananda's supporters.
Throughout the Cold DOCS.GOOGLE.COM
NJ: Which premananda is this referring to?
SD: He’s in Narayan Maharaja circle.
GD DASI: Keep your politics in ISKCON, stay out of Gaudiya math
[PADA: Narayan Maharaja has been a huge cheer leader of Tamal and the GBC's homosexual and pedophile acharya's program, He should have kept out of that affair. Notice some of the NM people think child molesting is "politics." Even Radhanath glorifying NM is promoted on the NM site.]
NV DASI: You’re stating he did something without facts or including who or where you heard it from. Sorry maybe you don’t understand this feeling because you are part of ISKCON but they have a history of saying whatever they want about Gaudiya math devotees and I’m sick of it.
[PADA: Sridhara Maharaja, Narayan Maharaja and others supported the GBC's homosexual and pedophile guru process. That is the history.]
SD: I will tag you below with more information of what Premananda did. It's interesting because every time I call out an abuser, someone inevitably comes out of the woodwork and says "wait, not him! I like him!" Sorry, abusers are everywhere, and may even be people we hold in high regard or have a relationship with. I encourage you to step back and look at the details of what he did, before accusing me of some underhanded scheme to disparage the Gaudiya Math.
[PADA: The Gaudiya Matha also made a bi-sexual deviant into their acharya in 1936, and NM says Sridhara is a pure devotee (for endorsing bogus acharyas).]
NV DASI: I at any point say that this is your underhanded scheme? Listen I honestly don’t care I don’t even live anywhere near you or your circle, and honestly I’m glad I never moved to new goloka Because I’ve been getting really tired of your posts.
[PADA: Yep, as soon as someone says homosexual and pedophiles are not messiahs, then many Narayan Maharaja people "get tired of those posts."]
DS: Gaudia Math has plenty of active predators too. It's not just an "iskcon problem." The little Radha-Govinda Mandir in Alachua has had many incidents of predators active in the temple room. Predators of children, and VERY active molesters of adult women and men, too. Same political situation as iskcon, though-- protect and defend the predators, while silencing and demonizing the victims and their supporters.
SD: One of Premananda's victims has come forward publicly. He wrote about his abuse here: https://docs.google.com/.../1u13j2uJYUq7qwqln3G-KqTJUJc.../
This school is run by devotees in the Narayana Maharaja circle so not technically part of ISKCON but we see devotees are friendly with each other throughout the world, so I thought it worth sharing.
DS: Says a lot for a "spiritual society" when they chronically block and discredit the whistleblowers and defenders of exploited children. Shows openly their support and enabling of the predators. Very sad because they also share in the sinful reactions earned by the predators.
GM: - it might be good to clarify that this organization is not Iskcon. They seem like Narayan Maharaja’s followers
AM: Who is the temple president? Can we not petition for his removal? Has it been set up so we are powerless and voiceless? This is a little facist no?
GH: Premananda is the man in charge. His followers are blind fanatics. Premananda is totally gay.
AD: These are OUR temples. Especially with the second generation of an age of maturity. I don't understand how this is continuing, especially in light of all we know.
PD#1: Do you - or anyone else - know if that's Premananda who is / was in charge of the Radha Kunja temple in Vrindaban? Indian bodied brahmacari... not sure how else to describe him, but he has seriously polarized his Godbrothers; some say that he is a pure devotee (as he is described in the book 'The Ecstasy Matrix') and others who want to physically cause him harm. Premananda is such a common name that one has to ask. As I've personally brought my children to his temple, I would like to know.
RC: You are conflating things and trying to merge the Lokanath vibes with another entire case. The 18 Adult thing and "close" is stretching both the legal definition and then you are putting pressure on other families over an adult alleged case.
SD: Parents can do what they want with the information they are given. I have made many posts about many abusers, not just Lokanath and not just Premananda.
PADA: The ages of the victims are not as important as the dynamic of a spiritual leader exploiting a congregation member. Srila Prabhupada says that when a guru has sex with a follower, it is the same as a father having sex with his own daughter. Many of the church's abusers are clerics, priests, sports coaches, school teachers and so on. Some of the victims are children, some are middle aged ladies, and so on.
A person who is posing as a cleric, priest, guru etc. has a lot of power over others in his flock, which can be exploited easily. Some of Kirtanananda's male victims were alleged 18 years old, not sure why that matters a whole lot, there were exploited, that is the real issue that needs to be addressed. It is also seen in a number of cases, people who are 18 are still not very mature for that age and cannot always make fully adult decisions. Bottom line, a leader exploiting a subordinate is evil, whether he is a guru, a priest, or a boss having sex with his maid. It is exploiting a post of authority. ys pd
SD: It's called pastoral abuse. Sadly, it's so common that there is a specific term for it.
RC: Or it could be student sabotage of a teacher. G H said he had a falling out and indicated he was sexually active with himself and other possible mental and antisocial behaviour. There are many cases of students of ashrams wrongfully accusing Ashram leaders to either leave that ashram to do their own thing or due to other reasons.
There is not evidence enough or equal presentation of the whole situation of the case with Premananda. And whether adult gay, bisexual or metrosexual brahmacaris having a situation with understanding masterbation and the Vedic and tantric ways of adults dealing with that kind of social environment is far from what could be called pastoral abuse if these supposed adult brahmacari's stories are completely truthful or even if they are hateful and spiteful against the accused.
There are many cases of children and students spitefully accusing their parents and teachers of horrendous abuse. Each individual especially fellow devotees deserves the respect of at least equality and common justice before unjustly labeling someone an abuser and in context to another ISKCON guru case. Don't let the mental health and fear from another case interfere with viewing Premananda's case. You have to consider that the supposed victims may be lying out of spite and jealousy or simple sabotage.
PA DASA: Unless I have misread your post, you seem to be saying "The victim is mentally unstable and possibly made up all the allegations so we shouldn't judge the accused." This is exactly the kind of sentiment that empowers sexual predators and to say that it's seriously dangerous is an understatement.
You can read page after page (chapters, even) in Pitambar's book 'The Ecstasy Matrix' of Premananda Prabhuji's manipulative and disturbing abuse of his authority. In my country (USA) any pastor, teacher, correctional officer, drill sargeant, (or other person in authority) who treated his subjects like that would be in jail.
SD: Yes, it appears like a classic textbook case of victim-blaming. And this is why the other victims have not come forward.
PA DASA: Besides, of an impressionable eighteen year old were mentally unstable, wouldn't he be at a greater risk for abuse from his authorities?
RP DASI: G H had guru like trust in his Prahuji Premananda, heavily under his influence. Premananda abused it. It didn’t matter that G H was already adult. That was absolutely horrible sex abuse.
DH: An 18-year-old boy is still susceptible to sexual abuse by a much older, respected senior. This is simply common sense. And the accusations have become too numerous and similar in nature to dismiss out of hand.
PADA: We should review the whole Narayan Maharaja process, of which Premananda is a by-product. NM was in Texas with Tamal Krishna swami at the same time I was in Texas putting together the $400,000,000 ISKCON child molesting lawsuit. My friends were also in Texas at the same time. And they met with Narayan Maharaja in Texas, and NM was literally spitting mad that they were challenging Tamal, in fact they reported they could feel NM's angry spitting from across the table. NM was a huge defender of Tamal and the entire regime. Later on, after they lawsuit was in progress, Narayana Maharaja invited me to his ashram in Fullerton to discuss all this. And NM cancelled our 830am meeting, cancelled our 11am, our 2pm, our 5pm, then he sneaked off the property out the back door. He avoided meeting me, evidently unable to explain why he has been a big cheer leader of this regime. Then NM started telling people "the ISKCON children were just getting their karma" and he started this whole idea that the victims of children molesting are "getting karma." However, NM never explains who authorizes him to support a regime that is giving children "bad karma"? I cannot help drive the getaway car for a bunch of bank robers, and then tell the judge "the bank had the karma to be robbed, so I am innocent." No, you are not innocent, you have to authority to dish out "bad karma" to others, especially children. And the followers of Narayan Maharaja have told me the same thing, well it is karma. Sorry, it is not your authority to give others "bad karma." Then later, NM was photgraphed hugging Kirtanananda. Plenty of time to meet and hug them, no time to meet us? ys pd
MA: GH and others, who have been traumatized again and again, need our support, not condemnation and quotes. Otherwise, we're doing the same thing that was done in Iskcon, covering up the abuse, and sooner or later it will backfire. Many of our peers committed Suicide. How hopeless they must have felt. My Loving pranam to you for so carefully and lovingly approaching this very sad, but very real issue. "Jai sri sri guru gauranga jayatah!
SD: The other leaders of the Narayan group have wrote to tell me Premananda is a fanatic cult and they cannot do anything about it. And I am being blocked by their people.
=======================
Dear devotees,
This has been a difficult but necessary letter for me to write.
For those of you who are my friends, you know how much affection and respect I had and have for Premananda Prabhu. How he has been a big part of most of my adult life, shown me nothing but affection and inspired me in many ways which makes what I have to say now all the more difficult.
I want to make it clear that this letter is not an attack on Premananda prabhu, Radhe Kunj or on those who are under his guidance. And nor is it an attempt to ascertain his adhikara because I do not have the qualification to do so.
Rather it is my long overdue attempt to acknowledge and support G P and others who have been either molested by or have had uncomfortable contact with Premananda prabhu. Some may ask “why address this publicly?”
For the most part, my brothers and sisters from Radhe kunj, like ST, have responded to this discussion in a respectful and thoughtful manor. And while I don’t agree with everything ST said, and nor do I think she addressed the main points in V G prabhu’s letter, I appreciate her mood.
However, there are some people who have publicly and privately tried to create guilt, fear and shame in the heart of G H and others by using manipulative language to try and silence them.
They have bullied and shamed others like R S who was brave enough to speak out knowing that some of her dear friends would turn on her. I understand that this behaviour may be a result of them privately struggling with their own doubts and fears, but it is cruel and inexcusable and has forced me to speak out.
I can no longer live with the silence that has sat like a weight in my heart and on my conscience for the past 5 years. Name calling, demonizing, ostracizing, will not create a healthy outcome for any of us. It will not help the victims of sexual abuse or the perpetrators. It may bring you accolades from others within your group because you have shouted the loudest and taken up the role of defender of the group, but it will not bring you peace in the long run.
I would be a hypocrite if I didn’t acknowledge that in the past, I have also held that same sword in my hand in defense of another group.
I know very well how excruciatingly painful it is to face the weakness of those we have placed our faith in. To be forced to either deny to ourselves the things we know are wrong so that we can stay within the group, or to risk considering the questions asked by our conscience which could lead to us losing our community, position, dear friends, home, maintenance, and identity.
I have been through all of this, and it was one of the most difficult periods of my life, but it lead me to a more solid ground and was the beginning of uprooting my misplaced faith and of attempting to offer it at the lotus feet of my beloved Gurudeva where it is safe and where it belongs. So in hindsight I’m very grateful for such suffering.
This letter is not a call for a mass exodus from Radhe kunj. I see how inspired you all are and that much of this is because of Premananda prabhu. In no way am I ignoring all the good he has done and continues to do.
This is very much a part of who he is. I am just requesting you to consider for a moment how your fierce denial of his molestation is not only harming his victims, but also him, and that such denial will pave the way for institutional abuse of all types to go ignored and undetected in the future because we are unwilling to create a safe place for those involved to ask for help and heal.
By elevating Premananda prabhu to the position of a “pure devotee”, your need for him to be just that, makes it almost impossible for hm to come forward, admit his mistakes and ask for help.
G H was brave enough to stand up and say what happened to him, and rather than receive the love and support he so greatly needed, he was labeled “mad”, “a liar”, “out to destroy Prabhuji”, and in the process he lost most of his community and childhood friends. I can’t even imagine how that must have felt.
And more recently his latest post regarding his abuse has subtly been classified as un-Krsna Conscious, and that it would be better for him to serve Thakurji, chant, distribute books, stay quiet and not seek justice. This is what a “good devotee” would and should do.
How can any of us stand in judgment of how he or any other victim of molestation chose to deal with their trauma. We are not only devotees but humans with very real emotions that need to be attended to.
If the victim is guilted into believing that their anger, shame, and hurt is wrong, and that to pass naturally through the healing process, which looks different for every victim, is somehow maya, how can they be expected to reach the stage of forgiveness?
If we don’t provide a safe space for the victims of abuse, how will they be inspired to continue to stay around devotees and continue on the path of bhakti? I feel angry and sad that the only real option open to them is to step outside their community for support and help.
When you give your love and faith to someone, whether it’s a preceptor, guide, husband, parent or teacher and that trust and love is broken, it breaks something in us too. If that grief is not attended to, if we take shelter of a philosophy not to heal but to avoid dealing with our pain, then there is a danger of becoming disconnected from our emotions and of us deeply hurting others by our behaviour. Hiding behind philosophical statements in order to justify and feel comfortable with our unhealthiness will one day catch up with us.
In a healthy society, such open discussions remain respectful. As a family we should be able to talk about our weaknesses without judgment, without denial, and somehow figure out a way to heal and prevent such abuse from happening in the future.
I believe it is possible to have positive confrontations, that we can demolish the toxic and unhealthy habits in our society and allow something new and beautiful to grow in their place.
I pray that for the rest of my time in the material world, Gurudeva, and other pure Vaisnavas like him, remain my sole shelter. And that any assistance I receive in my bhakti from those who are not fully pure is seen by me in the proper perspective so that I can honour them appropriately."
Ukraine war threatens food supply in the Arab world and Africa.
From Lebanon, Iraq and Syria to Sudan and Yemen, millions of people in the Middle East whose lives were already upended by conflict, displacement and poverty are now wondering where their next meals will come from.
Ukraine and Russia account for a third of global wheat and barley exports, which countries in the Middle East rely on to feed millions of people who subsist on subsidized bread and bargain noodles. They are also top exporters of other grains and the sunflower seed oil that is used for cooking.
Even before the war in Ukraine, people in countries across the Middle East and North Africa were not getting enough food to eat. Now with trade disruptions spurred by the conflict, more commodities are becoming either unaffordable or unavailable.
“Put simply, people cannot afford food of the quality or quantity that they need, with those in conflict- and crisis-affected countries ... at greatest risk,” said Lama Fakih, Middle East and North Africa Director at Human Rights Watch.
[PADA: Already the price of food in some areas has gone up 20% since the war started. And the price of petrol / gas has gone up, in some cases it has doubled, making shipping and transporting the food more expensive. Even many folks in the USA are having a hard time with inflated food and fuel costs.
And there was already a fertilizer shortage, and that is going to be more acute. Overall, it looks like Krishna is cramping down on the citizens of Kali Yuga for a variety of reasons. Srila Prabhupada says that the sinful people will be punished with starvation, and that looks like it is on the horizon.
Meanwhile, some the people who were at a meeting trying to negotiate a Ukraine peace agreement were allegedly poisoned. Wow, all sorts of Russia critics end up being poisoned. Yep, I believe our GBC guys took a cue from these types of people and -- poisoned Srila Prabhupada -- so they could take over. In any case, poisoned negotiators does not bode well for negotiations. And the poisoning of Srila Prabhupada did not not mark good fortune for ISKCON either. ys pd]
[PADA: Narayan Maharaja is preaching that we do not fall from being with Krishna, because we were never with Krishna. He says Sridhara Maharaja is correct, we originated in brahmajyoti. OK that is mayavada.
Of course, on the other hand Narayan Maharaja supported Tamal's guru program that worships illicit sex with men, women and children as gurus and Krishna's pure acharya associates. Thus, no one falls from Vaikuntha, because they are pure, but it is common that pure devotees fall into illicit sex with men, women and children. And pure devotees are sometime pedophiles in the material world. Wait! What!
When we were in Mayapura in 1971 many Gaudiya Matha people were protesting the use of "Back to Godhead," saying we were never with Godhead. Srila Prabhupada said, my God brothers do not know we were once with Krishna because they are tinged with mayavada. They thought Sridhara Maharaja was correct when he said we originated in brahmajyoti. So they were not able to understand the acharya.
And Jadurani and others support all this rubbish, that pure devotee are never falling, but simultaneously, often falling. Yep! Pure devotees never fall down, except when they are the type of GBC "gurus" / pure devotees / acharyas / that Narayan Maharaja and his disciples like Tamal endorse, those who are illicit sex, drunks, drug addicts, porno swamis and pedophiles, then -- pure devotees do fall down! And Jadurani does not see the problem with all this?
Sorry, Srila Prabhupada says we have forgot our relationship with Krishna. That means, that relationship existed previously. ys pd]
Originally, all marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are nitya-siddha (eternally liberated) because their original home is Goloka Vrindavana or Vaikuntha.
Krsna never interferes with the jiva-soul's free will, even when they choose to reject Him.
Srila Prabhupada - "There are two kinds of marginal living entities, nitya-siddha and nitya-baddha because of the spiritual world and material worlds. However, the actual constitutional position of every marginal living entity (jiva-soul) is nitya-siddha. By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, the jiva-soul can become again nitya-siddha. So, the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas again nitya-siddha." (New York Lecture on Caitanya Caritamrta, July 13, 1976)
Nitya-siddha is when the marginal living entity (jiva-soul) is in their natural pure spiritual bodily state, eternally liberated in Goloka Vrndavana or Vaikuntha with Krsna or Visnu.
The nitya-baddha condition is when the jiva-souls are in an unnatural impure state of reality eternally conditioned in the material creation selfishly serving one's own interests unaware of their permanently original position of being nitya-siddha.
This means all the living entities in the category of marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are originally nitya-siddha and fully Krsna conscious. Nitya-siddha means fully Krsna conscious in one's original position as Krsna's eternal servant. The jiva-souls can never become God (Visnu-tattva).
The marginal living entity or jiva-souls can choose to be either nitya-siddha, that means eternally liberated, or nitya-baddha, which means eternally conditioned. The nitya siddha spiritual bodily form in Goloka-Vrndavana or Vaikuntha is the original position and home of the marginal living entities within the eternal presence of Goloka Vrindavana and Vaikuntha.
Srila Prabhupada – “So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, or one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that is not independence; that is force.” (Los Angeles, June 23, 1975)
Srila Prabhupada - Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is "free will." Unless there is a chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is "free will" then? If I act only one-sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will."
Hayagriva - "A man may know better but still act wrongly."
Srila Prabhupada -"Yes, but that is free will. He misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing; it is bad, but still, he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will." (Excerpt from: Philosophy Discussions with Srila Prabhupada – Rene Descartes)
Srila Prabhupada - ''As soon as we try, "Oh, this material world is very nice," "Yes," Kṛṣṇa says, "yes, you can go." Otherwise, what is the meaning of free will? Every living entity has got a little free will. And Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He gives him opportunity, "All right, you enjoy like this." It is free will." (Morning Walk Cheviot Hills May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)
Srila Prabhupada - “We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago.”
(Lecture on Bhagavad-gita on August 6, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - ''These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha." (Letter to Jagadisa das, 1970)
Srila Prabhupada - "Your question about one's relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa, 4/25/1970.)
Srila Prabhupada - ''When the superior energy is in contact with inferior energy, it becomes an incompatible situation. But, when the supreme marginal potency is in contact with the spiritual potency, Harā, it becomes the happy, normal condition of the living entity." (The Happening Record Album, New York City USA 1966)
Srila Prabhupada – "Where are the spirit souls coming from, these spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities." (Letter to Jagadisa 7/9/1970)
Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense, everyone comes from Krsnaloka (Goloka-Vrindavana). When one forgets Krsna, he is conditioned (nitya-baddha), when one remembers Krsna, he is liberated (nitya-siddha)." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)
Srila Prabhupada - "So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas again nitya-siddha, it is a difficult task." (London lecture on Bhagavad-Gita 13-14, July 14, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - "There are three kinds of liberated persons; they are called- 1) sadhan siddha, 2) kripa siddha, 3) nitya siddha.
When one is actually on the siddha platform, there is no such distinction as to who is sadhan, kripa, or nitya siddha.
When one is siddha, there is no distinction what is what. Just like when the river water glides down to the Atlantic ocean, nobody can distinguish which portion was the Hudson River or some other river." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969) Srila Prabhupada - "Nitya baddhas are within this material world. Beginning from Brahma down to a small ant, insignificant ant, they are all nitya-baddha. Anyone who is in this material world they are nitya-baddha." (Lecture on Bhagavad-Gita 13-14, July 14, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - "However, the actual constitutional position of every marginal living entity is nitya-siddha. By following the rules and regulations and instructions of the spiritual master, he can become again nitya-siddha. So the Krsna consciousness movement is to make the nitya-baddhas again nitya-siddha." (New York Lecture on Caitanya-Caritamrta, July 13, 1976)
Srila Prabhupada - "Actually, every living entity is eternally uncontaminated, although he may be in the material touch. This is the version of the Vedas. Asanga ayam purusha-the living entity is uncontaminated. Just like when there is a drop of oil in water, you can immediately distinguish the oil from the water, and the water never mixes with the oil. Similarly, a living entity, although in material contact, is always distinct from the matter." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)
Srila Prabhupada - “Actually, we are not fallen. We cannot be fallen. But, we have simply created a situation. We have not created a situation. Krsna has given us a situation. Because we wanted to imitate Krsna, so Krsna has given an opportunity: ‘All right. Imitate’. So this situation, our contact with matter, is just like dream.
Actually, we are not fallen. Therefore, because we are not fallen, at any moment we can revive our Krsna consciousness. . . we can break this material connection at any moment as soon as we come to the point of Krsna conscious. We can simply give up that illusory condition at any moment. At any moment. This is the position. We are not fallen. We are thinking fallen. So we have to give up this nonsense thinking. Then we are liberated.”
(Bhagavatam lecture in Tokyo, April 20, 1972)
Srila Prabhupada - “Eternally conditioned means we do not know when we have been conditioned like this. It is not possible to trace out the history, many, many, many Brahma’s lives are happening, not only one." (Lecture in New York City, January 9, 1967)
Srila Prabhupada - “There is history, but that is not possible to trace out. Therefore, it is said anadi . . . Anadi means the creation. Creation before creation I contaminated this desire.” (Bhagavatam lecture in Bombay, January 1, 1975) Srila Prabhupada - "It is impossible to trace out our history. Vaisnava poets say, therefore, anadi karma-phale, which means that these actions and reactions of one’s activity cannot be traced, for they may even continue from the last millennium of Brahma’s birth to the next millenium."
(Bhagavatam lecture on verse 44 of Canto Three, Chapter thirty-one Aug 1974).
Devotee - "In the spiritual sky, when the living entity is in his pure state of consciousness, does something act upon him to make him illusioned at that point, also?"
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes. Just like Jaya-Vijaya. They committed offense, there is possibility even if you are in Vaikuntha, you will fall down, what to speak of this material world." (Bhagavad Gita lecture of July 4, 1974)
It is not Maya and her material energy causing the jiva-souls to leave or fall down from Vaikuntha because there is no material nature (Maya) in Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana that forces the jiva-soul to leave Krsna, Maya's temptation and material energy do not exist in Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana however, free will does exist there.
Srila Prabhupada - ''The next question about the living entities falling down in this material world are not from the impersonal brahman. Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence they are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness. So long one can maintain pure Krsna consciousness; he does not fallen down. As soon as he becomes out of Krsna consciousness, immediately he is fallen down." (Letter to: Revatinandana, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)
Srila Prabhupada - “As living spiritual souls, we are all originally Krsna conscious entities, but due to our association with matter from time immemorial, our consciousness has now become polluted by the material atmosphere.” (Original Hare Krsna "Happening record album" New York December 1966)
Srila Prabhupada - "So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krsna? Why not become Krsna?’ I immediately fall down.” (July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C.)
Srila Prabhupada – ''Regarding your questions about how and from where the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa, 4/25/1970.)
Srila Prabhupada – "Where are the spirit souls coming from, these spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities." (Letter to Jagadisa 7/9/1970)
Srila Prabhupada – “So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore, Krsna says, yathecchasi tathä kuru. “Now you do whatever you like.” (Bhagavad Gita as it is. lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)
Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense everyone comes from Krsnaloka (Goloka-Vrindavana). When one forgets Krsna he is conditioned (nitya-baddha), when one remembers Krsna he is liberated (nitya-siddha)." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)
Srila Prabhupada - "We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna. As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately Maya covers us. Formerly, we were with Krsna in His lila or sport. But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration; therefore, many creations are coming and going." (Letter to Madhudvisa Swami June 1972 Australia)
Acyutananda - ''But in the Bhagavad Gita it says, "Once coming ftom there, he never returns to the material creation."
Srila Prabhupada - ''But if he likes, he can return."
Acyutananda - ''He can return?''
Srila Prabhupada - ''That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown."(Morning Walk, February 19, 1976, Mayapur)
Devotee - "Srila Prabhupada why did Krsna give us free will if He knew we could fall down in the material world?"
Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will. But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (August 5, 1976, New Mayapur France).
Syamasundara - "Can we predict that returning back home back to Godhead will be permanent? Can we predict that? Just like many prisoners leave the prison, however, some do come back?''
Srila Prabhupada - "No, there is no permanent effect because we have got little independence. There is nothing permanent because you can misuse your independence at any time."
Syamasundara - "And some come back?"
Srila Prabhupada - "Yes. Otherwise there is no meaning of independence. Independence means you can do this, you can do that. "All right. Whatever you like."
Devotee - "Then he is so many times falling down, again and again, so will he eventually permanently come back?"
Srila Prabhupada - "He has got independence, therefore there is always the possibility he can misuse his independence, he can fall down. That's why when a man is released from the prison house, that does not mean permanently because he can come back again, the general law is not to come back, but if he likes, he can come back, otherwise what is the meaning of independence? Just like one becomes free from the prison house, naturally he should not go there again." (Discussions with Syamasundara > Henri Bergson)
In Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrindavana personal voluntary expressions of loving exchanges are always encouraged by Krsna in His relationship with the jiva-souls. This adds flavour, variety and mystery to their association with the Lord. This means the Kingdom of God (Goloka-Vrindavana and Vaikuntha) are not a one-sided dominating impersonal domain devoid of "free will" or voluntary service.
Denying free will does not allow or encourage voluntary personal contributions (offerings) expressed in a two-way exchange, that can only expand, enrich and flavour one's eternal relationship with Krsna (God).
Loving service to Krsna and exchanges with Him cannot exist if there is only a one-sided affiliate of total supremacy or preeminence.
The fact is genuine loving relations and service are based on free will which includes loving exhanges between two, and is never a one-sided dominating affair!
Free will only has meaning when the jiva-souls can express themselves in a two-sided relationship with Krsna or even reject Him if they choose.
Unless the jiva-souls can make their own choice to do these things, then there is no question of having free will.
Srila Prabhupada - "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force, no, Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, ‘You love me otherwise I shall kill you!" (Washington DC July 8, 1976)
The full potential and original feature of all marginal living entities is a two-arm form like Krsna's Body.
Devotee – “Is the original body of the spirit soul a human form?”
Srila Prabhupada – “Yes, human form. God is also human form. "Man is made after the shape of God." I think there is in the Bible. Is it not? So God is also like human form. Here you see Krsna, two hands, two legs."
Hari-sauri – “How do we understand, then, that there are peacocks and flowers and trees in the spiritual world? Are these not eternal forms?”
Srila Prabhupada – “[describing material form first]: Yes. They are more covered. Just like if you cover your body with blanket, the hands and legs are invisible. But you are not the blanket. So the trees and plants, they are more covered. They are not in full manifestation. The human form is the full manifestation of the soul."
Hari-sauri - “They are covered in the spiritual world?”
Srila Prabhupada - “Not in the spiritual world. There that is voluntary. Some devotee wants to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want to be a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna, he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body.
That is spiritual life. There is no restriction.
If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (Srimad Bhagavatam 6.1.1-4 - Melbourne, May 20, 1975)
Lord Balarama expands as Maha-Visnu.
Srila Prabhupada - "Balarāma, the first expansion of Kṛṣṇa, expands Himself in five forms:
These five plenary portions are responsible for both the spiritual and material cosmic manifestations.
In these five forms, Lord Balarāma assists Lord Kṛṣṇa in His activities. The first four of these forms are responsible for the cosmic manifestations, whereas Śeṣa is responsible for personal service to the Lord.
Śeṣa is called Ananta, or unlimited, because He assists the Personality of Godhead in His unlimited expansions by performing an unlimited variety of services. Śrī Balarāma is the servitor Godhead who serves Lord Kṛṣṇa in all affairs of existence and knowledge.
Lord Nityānanda Prabhu, who is the same servitor Godhead, Balarāma, performs the same service to Lord Gaurāṅga by constant association." (CC Adi 5.10, Translation and Purport).
[PADA: Bhakti Vikas swami discusses how the ISKCON guru is also a manager. And that is why BVKS and his GBC guru / managers have been "managing" since 1978 -- to force the ISKCON little children to worship their illicit sex with men, women and children messiahs, and assorted porno swamis, Vodka swamis, offering LSD to the shalagram swamis, and other BVKS messiahs -- some of whom are evidently -- trying to have sex with cats.
As soon as BVKS finds a group of people promoting gurus who are having illicit sex with men, women, children and -- maybe cats, he falls off his chair and offers them his respectful obeisances. And more importantly, worship of BVKS pals such as his list of messiahs: homosexuals, pedophiles, porno swamis, LSD taking fools, etc. is considered by BVKS as "managing ISKCON"? Yes, it is "managing" -- to make ISKCON into a hell-scape of banning, beating, molesting, suing and assassinating the Lord's Vaishnavas.
They "managed" to have thousands of children abused and / or molested, managed to kick out most of the devotees, managed to have dissenters assassinated, and managed to make most of the temples into ghost towns etc. And they are managing to keep pedophiles in the post of acharya even today.
In sum, as soon as BVKS finds a nice homosexual pedophile samadhi worship promoting fool, like Jayapataka swami, BVKS falls down and worships that person as his sannyasa guru. Wow, we got the ISKCON children to worship our homosexuals, pedophiles and sex with cats messiahs program -- forever -- in samadhi no less, wonderful work!
Of course, BVKS is an ally of the India Bureau ICC and Basu Ghosh, a program which "manages" to promote other pedophile messiahs like Lokanath -- as the gurus of ISKCON -- simultaneous as they bury deviants in samadhi in the holy dham. And that is how BVKS considers that gurus are also managers, because they are forcing little children to worship BVKS and his sinful deviants if not pedophile messiahs.
However, as soon as a Srila Prabhupada disciple (like us) says that it is very sinful to force children to worship the GBC's illicit sex with men, women, and children, and cats -- messiahs -- then BVKS says that worship of pure devotees is "the bogus Christian idea." Which is why BVKS lives in Salem, India, a city that is full of Christians. So he condemns the Christians as bogus, because they are not worshiping BVKS, and his pedophile and assorted illicit sex, drugs, porno swamis, and -- sex with cats -- messiahs process.
And therefore evidently, forcing ISKCON to worship homosexuals and pedophiles as its messiahs is what BVKS considers as "managing." And someone just asked me about Kavicandra swami, who is the guru of Japan. He says he hides out away from the USA, telling my friend, "I cannot go to the USA to face the angry hordes of people who hate us GBC's gurus."
No kidding. Now ICC / BVKS / Kavicandra are saying that men who have anarthas can be gurus, but a woman has to be a pure devotee to be a guru. So therefore, it is fine to worship illicit sex deviants, as long as they have men's bodies. Hee hee. ys pd
Woman PADA Reader Writes:
If this is not a Satanic Child Sacrificing
Demon Worshiping
Voodoo - Like Cult: Then What Else Is It?
Good Question!
Ask BVKS!
==============================================
ISKCON India's ICC STATEMENT ON WOMEN DIKSHA GURUS
The only question members of this legislative body need to answer is whether the GBC ’s proposal to create female diksa-gurus from Vaisnavis still at the level of sadhana-bhakti is dharma, or adharma. If it is dharma, then no further discussion or legislative action is needed, and the matter is closed. But if it is adharma, then any further discussion is needed only to convince those who still have doubts about the matter.
[PADA: However if an ISKCON man wants to become an ISKCON guru, he can become one, even if he has remaining anarthas such as -- the desire for illicit sex with men, women and children. In other words, a person in the body of a man is not even required to be a bona fide sadhaka (layman) to become worshiped as an ISKCON messiah, as long as he has a man's body.]
In either case, knowing for certain whether the GBC ’s proposal is dharma or adharma will unite us in purpose and action, just as once Arjuna ’s doubts were dispelled, he too could continue with his duty of fighting in unity of purpose with the will of Lord Krishna. Therefore, before attempting to make any kind of resolution, it is necessary that this legislative assembly first dispel any doubts among themselves as to whether the GBC ’s proposal is dharma or adharma.
In this matter, we have prepared a short paper titled “Pramāṇa and Samanvaya of Guru - Sādhu - Śāstra on the Female Dīkṣā Guru Issue, ”and it first presents Śrīla Prabhupāda’s system of pramāṇa and then shows how it can be applied in two ways to the female dīkṣā-guru issue: one way utilizes only Śrīla Prabhupāda ’s statements, and the other utilizes the full range of statements from the śāstras and ācāryas in addition to Śrīla Prabhupāda ’s own statements. We urge all members of this assembly to read this paper carefully.
The conclusion of the paper is that pāñcarātrika-vidhi generally prohibits women from becoming dīkṣā-guru unless she is at the level of bhāva-bhakti. Women still on the level of sādhana-bhakti are ineligible to become dīkṣā-guru.
[PADA: But a man, even a man who still has desires for illicit sex with men, women and children, is qualified to be worshiped as an acharya. And no, a sadhaka can NOT absorb the sins of another sadhaka, male or female.]
This is confirmed by the Bhāradvāja-samhitā 1.42 – 44, which is part of a collection of works called Nārada Pañcarātra. And these same ślokas are also quoted by Śrīla Baladeva Vidyābhūṣaṇa in his Vaiṣṇavānandinī commentary to Śrīmad-Bhāgavata 1.13.15. Bh āradvāja-samhit ā 1.42 states najātu mantra-dānārī, a woman can never become mantra-dā (dīkṣā-guru) but in 1.44 states that if she is pratyak ṣitātma-nātha (self-realized, able to see God face-to-face), then she can become ācārya, dīkṣā-guru.
[PADA: OK so if a man wants to be guru -- even if he still has desires for illicit sex with men, women and children, he is qualified and he is voted in as guru. Whereas! A woman, OK she has to be a self realized soul to become a guru.]
Śrīla Baladeva Vidyābhūṣaṇa further says, ataeva bhāradv āja-samhitāyām strī- śūdrād īnāmtan ni ṣidhya sāk ṣātkṛta-para-tattv ānām tesam tad āha, “It is for this reason that the Bhāradv āja-samhitā forbids women, śūdras and the like [from becoming gurus] and allows women, śūdras and the like who have directly realized the Supreme Truth [to
And Śrīla Bhaktisiddānta Sarasvatī Ṭhakura in his commentary to Śrī Brahma-samhitā 5.38 (prem āñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena. . .), says “When the devotion of the neophyte reaches the stage of bhāva-bhakti the pure eye of that devotee is tinged with the salve of love by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, which enables him to see Kṛṣṇa face to face. ” So, bhāva-bhakti is the stage at which one can directly perceive Kṛṣṇa face-to-face.
Therefore, when Śrīla Prabhupāda says in his purport to ŚB 4.12.32 that Sunīti, “being a woman ” could not become Dhruva Mahārāja’s dīkṣā-guru, it is to be understood that Śrīla Prabhupāda is referring to women who are below the stage of bhāva-bhakti.
[PADA: OK so the ICC promotes a pedophile like Lokanath as their guru, saying a guru has to be in bhava bhakti. How is a pedophile in bhava?]
And in his January 3, 1969, letter to Hansadutta, Śrīla Prabhupāda is considering them (and men, too) as having attained the stage of bhāva-bhakti.
And for his conversations with Atreya Ṛṣi (1972) and Professor O ’Connell (1976), he is also speaking of women at the level of bhāva-bhakti. This is further corroborated by his selecting Śrīmatī Jāhnavā Devī (a nitya-siddha) as an example, as well as his repeated use of phrases such as “highest perfection of life ” “attained the perfection ”, “fully cognizant of the science of Kṛṣṇa ”, “very special case ”, “above the bodily concept of life ”, etc. Śrīla Prabhupāda ’s true intent in these conversations is that he is referring to eternally liberated women like Jāhnav ā Devī or those who have attained at least the stage of bh āva, not women below that stage.
=======================
The last consideration in the conclusion is about the men. How can mleccha men become guru when they are also excluded along with women? The answer is that by pāñcarātrika-dīkṣā such men may become recognized as bona fide brāhmaṇas and therefore eligible to become dīkṣā-guru despite still being s ādhakas.
[PADA: How is an illicit sex with men, women and children guru process -- bona fide sadhakas? And no, Srila Prabupada says the guru must be an uttama, a resident of Krishna loka etc., and not a mere sadhaka. Of course, illicit sex deviants are also not sadhakas.]
But even after dīkṣā women still remain women, and thus the prohibition is still in force. The big difference is that whether one is a brāhmaṇa or a śūdra or less is always judged by qualities, but gender (whether one is male or female) is always judged by bodily features.
As to the question of whether the GBC ’s resolution seen in light of these conclusions is dharma or adharma, we provide a table below that assesses the GBC ’s resolution and provide a worked example as to what compliance with the GBC ’s rule that a female d īk ṣ ā-guru must be under someone ’s protection.
Is the GBC ’s resolution adharma?
This is a table of the statements in the GBC ’s 2019 Midyear resolution and the problems with them.
The GBC accepts the philosophical conclusion presented in the SAC ’s Female Diksa Guru Paper that a mature, qualified, female devotee may accept the role of an initiating spiritual master. The paper has many procedural flaws and inaccuracies. For example, the SAC in their paper states, “Under the more recent pañcar ātrika system, however, qualified women can accept and offer initiation. ”
* the pañcarātrika system is not “more recent ” because it is eternal.
* the pañcarātrika system generally prohibits women from becoming dīkṣā-guru and allows them only when they are at the level of bh āva-bhakti.
The GBC Body authorizes local area committees to put forward for approval as initiating guru any devotee in their area, male or female, who is qualified according to existing GBC Law.
This is against Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī’s dictum in NOI 1, that one who can control the six urges is qualified to make disciples all over the world. sarvām apīmām pṛthivīm sa śiṣyāt.
=====================
Qualifications for Vaisnavi Diksa Gurus
1. Meet all the qualifications listed for ISKCON diksa-guru applicants;
2. Ś āstras require different qualifications for women, as per above pram ā ṇas – especially from Bhāradv āja-sa ṁhit ā.
3. Are at least 55 years of age
4. No time limit on eligibility in the ś āstras. Why can ’t a 54-year old who is
completely conversant with the science of K ṛ ṣ ṇa become a d īk ṣ ā-guru?
5. and in a stable family situation, living under the protection of a husband, elder son or son-in-law, qualified householder couple or senior Vaisnava or Vaisnavi sanga;
6. The GBC has created new categories of protectors for women: son-in-law, householder couple with no blood-relation to woman, Vaisnava sanga (no blood relation and no specific ashrama), and Vaisnavi sanga (women now are protecting women).
This is especially adharma because it goes against the principle of dharmaṃ to sākṣād bhagavat pranītam, only the Lord can create dharma. What the GBC is doing here is making the mistake of thinking that the specified protectors are a
detail, and that the real principle is protecting women.
7. Receive written permission from the appropriate regional body or its equivalent, or national council, to give diksa in that particular part of the world.
Again, violates the principle that one who is qualified as guru is qualified to make disciples all over the world.
Compliance :-
After five years the GBC shall review this resolution to determine if the number of Vaisnavis initiating in any region or as a total for the world is in keeping with Srila Prabhupada ’s indication of “ …not so many ”.
This statement is unenforceable and for show only. Nowhere do they define what is “not so many ” or “too many. ” So, who is to say what is “not so many ”? And who will say how many is “so many ”? Who will decide? If you can ’t measure it, you can ’t enforce it. So, it appears that the intention of this resolution is to make a show of complying with Śrīla Prabhupāda ’s statements but actually has no intention of complying with them.
Dependent Dīkṣā Gurus
People from cultures that believe in gender equity may feel that that it is repugnant to allow women to be dīkṣā-guru only as rare exceptions. However, the GBC ’s own resolution from 2019 approving women with the caveat that they must remain dependent on either a male relative or some other sanga creates a strong incentive for behavior that would be considered hypocritical and scandalous in any society.
[PADA: Yep, the men gurus can suck off the society and bankrupt it, but the women need to be financially independent. Sign me up!]
GBC 2019 (Midyear): “[FDG candidates] are at least 55 years of age and in a stable family situation, living under the protection of a husband, elder son or son-in-law, qualified householder couple or senior Vaisnava or Vaisnavi sanga; ”
How would this work out in real life? The husband of a female dīkṣā-guru could tell her that she has to give half of all the guru-dakṣinā she collects to him. Since he is giving her shelter, why would it be unreasonable for him to require it? (And what would her disciples think of this?) And if she rejects his demand, she then goes “protector- shopping ” —looking for someone else or some other group of people willing to take her in but who has fewer demands on her, if any. On its face, the GBC ’s rule is a strong incentive for women to divorce their husbands and abandon the shelter of sons. How is this not adharma?
The GBC ’s resolution to make Vaiṣṇavis at the stage of sādhana-bhakti into dīkṣā-gurus is based on a flawed report with factual inaccuracies created by the SAC. Moreover, the GBC ’s resolution to implement female dīkṣā-gurus on a regional basis is not only highly divisive but is against Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī’s statement that a one who is qualified to accept disciples is qualified to do so all over the world, sarvām apīm āmpṛthivīm saśiṣy āt. On the recommendation of the SAC, the GBC ’s resolution further creates new vidhis that stipulate new protectors for women, and these new vidhis even stipulate that other women can protect women. This is against the established Vedic vidhis that stipulate who those protectors are. The GBC ’s resolution is adharma, not dharma, and therefore must be opposed.
Proposal:-
Whereas, the ICC had given a strong proposal to the Bureau regarding rescinding of the GBC FDG resolution or else they would call for a vote of non-co-operation with the GBC body.
Whereas, the Bureau had revised the proposal to dealing with the broader topic of Guru Tattva and requested the GBC to follow their lead and also impose a moratorium on the appointment of any new guru, male or female, until the issue is resolved.
Whereas, the ICC apprehends that the Bureau is not fully united on its opposition to the FDG issue and that therefore they did not present a strong unified message of continuing strong opposition to the GBC in their resolution adopted last month.
Whereas, although our group sees that in our sampradaya ’s history there have been examples of women guru ’s, our group feels that these have been exceptions and therefore does not support institutionalising FDG ’s.
Whereas, our group considers that, the GBC resolution is, institutionalising FDG, by making the exception the rule and thereby negating the principle of exceptionality.
Whereas, the GBC does not provide their own definition of what exception means, hence their statement “after five years the GBC shall review the resolution to determine if the number of Vaisnavis initiating in any region or as a total for the world is in keeping with Srila Prabhupada ’s indication of ‘not so many ’ is subjective and unverifiable, and therefore cannot be reliably enforced.
Whereas, our group considers that the GBC underemphasizes the rarity of women guru ’s by using the quote “not so many, ” but Srila Prabhupada also uses the words ``very special case ” in his conversation with Atrey Risi Prabhu, and that he means the same thing by both phrases, but the different wordings may create confusion as to what Srila Prabhupada actually meant.
Whereas, in order to clarify what “not so many ” means, we refer to Bharadvaj Samhita 1.42-44 and to Baladeva Vidhyabhusan commentary on SB 1.13.15, in which he also quotes the same slokas of Bharadvaj Samhita that gives the criteria of those who qualify as exceptions.
(See translations at: https://iisb.co.in/2021/11/29/baladeva-vidyabhusana-on-sb-1-13-
15/ )
Whereas, Bharadvaj Samhita uses the word pratyaksitama-natha which means one who has direct perception of the absolute truth, and this is confirmed by Baladeva Vidhyabhusana who uses the word saksatkrta-para-tattvanam which means who, have direct perception of the supreme truth, and that according to Brahma Samhita, direct perception of the absolute truth, Krishna, begins only at the stage of bhava.
Whereas, the members of the group feel that the GBC resolution is adharma, in as much as the GBC have not followed standard procedure in coming to their conclusion and have not understood Srila Prabhupada's intent properly, because they have avoided Sastric evidence from Narada Pancaratra, which gives direct evidence of the qualification of females to become diksha guru.
Whereas, the GBC resolution is adharma, because it creates new protectors for women, including women as protectors, and is against the protectors specified in shastra, and has therefore transgressed the principle dharmam tu saksad bhagavat pranitam, only God can give religion.
Whereas, our group recognizes that this issue has the potential to split our society, as it is highly divisive. Indeed, the GBC resolution has already divided ISKCON worldwide, into those that agree to follow FDG and those that do not accept FDG. Such division is opposed to Srila Rupa Goswami's dictum from NOI 1 that says one who is qualified to be a guru can make disciples all over the world whether they are male or female.
Whereas, we realise some devotees are expecting a compromise on the standards to accommodate female diksha gurus, just like Srila Prabhupada made so many adjustments to accommodate Western thinking people. However, the post of guru should not be awarded based on compromises and the candidate should accept the highest standard. Therefore the kind of adjustments Srila Prabhupada made to bring westerners to Krishna Consciousness are inappropriate in the matter of setting standards of who may become a diksha guru.
Resolution : - Therefore our group resolves the following.
That the ICC call ’s on the Bureau for a report on their response to the ICC ’s proposal on the FDG issue (28th Dec 2021) and also asks for a report on the GBC response to the Bureau proposal (January 2022, on the FDG and MDG issues) if any.
That the ICC supports the Bureaus' call to the GBC for a moratorium on appointments
That as Srila Prabhupada has stated in the case of women gurus, “not so many ”, and “very special case ” and “one who has attained the perfection, she can become guru ” that the criteria for a woman to become a Diksha Guru is to be on the level of bhava and the criteria for men is that they must be qualified as brahmana.
That someone may question having different standards for women and men, we therefore support the Bureau ’s resolve to investigate the male aspect of qualification for becoming diksha guru.
That the ICC supports the Bureau resolution calling for a dialogue between scholars representing both sides. Our recommendation is that the SAC and the ISKCON India Scholars Board should jointly discuss the topic and come to a consensus based on Guru, Sadhu and Sastra.
That the ICC recognises the Bureau as the legal authority for ISKCON India, as per the design of Srila Prabhupada.
The ICC also wishes that it be understood, if the GBC decides to not follow the Bureau ’s lead and place a moratorium on appointment on all new gurus until this situation resolves, then the ICC strongly requests the Bureau that ISKCON India will no longer support the present GBC body.
[PADA: Right, the BVKS / Basu Ghosh / ICC wants us to worship homosexuals and pedophiles in samadhi, and worship their pedophile guru Lokanath.]
