Notes from Discussion on Vishnu Expansions / Yoga Nidra / Etc.

PADA: Lord Chaitanya teaches acintya bhedha bhedha tattva, we are inconceivably both one and different from God. We are the infinitesimal particles of God, the jeeva tattva, and Krishna is the infinite, the source of the jeevas. Thus Krishna is not subject to being subordinated to material conditioning of maya, because He is the source of maya and all other energies. 

He is the energenic source, we are the energy or by-product. The electrical power house and by-product electricity are one, but they are also different. And that is also why the teeny jeeva particles can potentially get covered with material energy and suffers, and is subject to birth and death, but Krishna is never overcome by the materiel energy, because He is the source of the material energy existing eternally, and thus He is never subject to mundane conditioning. 

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Madhvacarya says God is like the sun planet, and we jeeva tattva are like the infinitesimal sun's ray particles. When the sun's teeny ray particles enter a cloud, the little particles appear to lose their heat and light quality. Similarly, when we little jeevas desire to become independent of God, we fall away from the sun globe and we become overwhelmed by entering the cloud of maya or material energy. 

Of course God is a person and we are also persons, and so the reason we fall is that we became envious of God. Thus He sends us envious souls to suffer in the material energy -- which is like a prison for the envious souls. And only by agreeing to surrender back to serving God can we re-enter our original position with the sun globe. So although there is never any real separation of the Sun globe and the sun rays, it appears that way due to our entering the cloud of the material energy, which covers the soul with an overcoat of material body. And then the soul transmigrates from one body to the next, until the souls re-surrender and go back to Krishna's loka (called goloka). The cloud is under the control of Mahavishnu, as we see in this illustration. 

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Actually we Vaishnavas are in the Brahma-Madhva sampradaya. And of course Madhva accepts the Bhagavad Gita which describes how the conditioned souls are covered by maya. 

This is also a supportive verse from the Brahma saṁhitā (5.44):

sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā
chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni bibharti durgā
icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate sā
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

"The external potency, māyā, who is of the nature of the shadow of the cit (spiritual) potency, is worshiped by all people as Durgā, the creating, preserving and destroying agency of this mundane world. I adore the primeval Lord Govinda, in accordance with whose will Durgā conducts herself." Material nature, the external energy of the Supreme Lord, is also known as Durgā, or the female energy that protects the great fort of this universe. 

The word Durgā also means fort. This universe is just like a great fort in which all the conditioned souls are kept, and they cannot leave it unless they are liberated by the mercy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

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Madvacarya says all material creation (and objects therein) are real, because its ALL a manifestation of Vishnu, but its only existing for a temporary time in the material creation. Yes, Vishnu thinks and it becomes real for us, and its called Vishnu's "yoga nidra." Yes, its a dream in one sense, but even God's dream is real for us because we are subordinated to the material energy created by His yoga nidra. That is why we jeevas have to work so hard to serve our mundane bodies, because we are subordinated to His material energy. 

This man in the video which says there are no objects would not last more than a week if he quit drinking water. Water is one of the objects of the material world, and that is fine, but this man could not survive without having these objects to keep himself alive, because he is subordinated to the material world built on these objects. To say there are no objects has no practical application. 

Anyway, a Vaishnava takes objects, like a mango, and he offers that object to Vishnu. He thanks Vishnu for making all these objects that are keeping him alive, and he is grateful for them. To have no connection to Vishnu's objects means, a person would die in no time flat. A devotee of Vishnu on the other hand appreciates all the wonderful objects made by Lord Vishnu, because the devotee knows the source of these objects. 

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SB 1.6.30, Purport: The duration of a day in the life of Brahmā is 4,320,000,000 solar years. This is stated also in the Bhagavad-gītā. So for this period Brahmājī rests in yoga-nidrā within the body of the Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, the generator of Brahmā. Thus after the sleeping period of Brahmā, when there is again creation by the will of the Lord through the agency of Brahmā, all the great ṛṣis again appear from different parts of the transcendental body, and Nārada also appears. 

This means that Nārada appears in the same transcendental body, just as a man awakes from sleep in the same body. Śrī Nārada is eternally free to move in all parts of the transcendental and material creations of the Almighty. He appears and disappears in his own transcendental body, which is without distinction of body and soul, unlike conditioned beings.

SB 1.16.26-30, Purport: The living beings can appreciate the qualities of the Lord as the ultimate goal, but they cannot attain the status quo of such equality. This material world is a product of the mahat-tattva, which is a state of the Lord's dreaming condition in His yoga-nidrā mystic slumber in the Causal Ocean, and yet the whole creation appears to be a factual presentation of His creation. This means that the Lord's dreaming conditions are also factual manifestations. He can therefore bring everything under His transcendental control, and thus whenever and wherever He does appear, He does so in His fullness.

The Lord, being all that is described above, maintains the affairs of the creation, and by His so doing He gives salvation even to His enemies who are killed by Him. He is attractive even to the topmost liberated soul, and thus He is worshipable even by Brahmā and Śiva, the greatest of all demigods.

SB Canto 2

SB 2.10.3, Purport: The first puruṣa incarnation of Govinda, Lord Kṛṣṇa, known as the Mahā-Viṣṇu, goes into a yoga-nidrā mystic sleep, and the innumerable universes are situated in potency in each and every hair hole of His transcendental body.

As mentioned in the previous verse, śrutena (or with reference to the Vedic conclusions), the creation is made possible from the Supreme Personality of Godhead directly by manifestation of His particular energies. Without such a Vedic reference, the creation appears to be a product of material nature. This conclusion comes from a poor fund of knowledge. From Vedic reference it is concluded that the origin of all energies (namely internal, external and marginal) is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And as explained herein before, the illusory conclusion is that creation is made by the inert material nature.

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First of all in the Vaishnava idea, the infinitesimal jeeva souls originated with Krishna, and that was their status as His servants originally. Then, some of the jeevas desired to be independent from Krishna, and so they had to fall to the material world. The material world is a sub-set of Krishna's energies, managed by Krishna's expansions. Garbhodakaśāyī Vishnu is an expansion of Mahā Vishnu. 

In Gaudīya Vaishnavism the Sātvata-tantra describes three different forms of Vishnu as: Mahā Vishnu, Garbhodakaśāyī Vishnu and Ksirodakaśāyī Vishnu (Paramātmā). Each form has a different role in the maintenance of the Universe and its inhabitants.

"For material creation, Lord Krishna's plenary expansion assumes three Vishnus. The first, Mahā Viṣhṇu, creates the total material energy, known as the mahat-tattva. The second, Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, enters into each of the universes to create diversities. And the third, Kṣīrodakaśāyī Vishnu, is diffused as the all-pervading super soul in all the universes; in the heart of every living being, is known as Paramātmā. 

He is present even within the atoms.The real objective of meditation in Yoga is first of all, attaining a state of realizing that Paramātmā exists in the hearts of all the jeevas. Anyone who realises that God is present with him at all times in the heart as the paramatma expansion, can start the process to be liberated from material entanglement."

Garbhodhakaśāyī Viṣṇu is an expansion or overload of Mahā Viṣṇu (expansion of Saṃkarṣaṇa of second caturvyūha, which expands from Nārāyaṇa in Vaikuṇṭhaloka). Garbhodhakaśāyī Vishnu is realized as the form of Pradyumna within the material universe . He is the father of Brahmā who appeared from His navel and hence Garbhodakashayi Vishnu is also called Hiraņyagarbha.

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Universes coming out from Vishnu. OK agreed, sounds like it could be a fairy tale. Then again, since no jeeva could view such a giant process, its really impossible for us to say its not a fairy tale. And in fact I would agree with the Vedas, the universes are a by product of the body of the Lord. I would also say, this is a logical idea to me, that the universes are expanded from the body of an expansion of God. Why not? 

As for inert objects or inert matter, yes objects might be described that way in one sense. In another sense, Lord Vishnu expands into each atom and thus the atoms are conscious and moving by intelligent design. Hence atomic movement is considered to be made in specific patterns .. its coming from conscious intelligence. ys pd