GBC still promotes Jayapataka as "a pure devotee parampara member." One thing we cannot help notice, no one including Sridhara Maharaja seems to have discussed how neophytes cannot absorb sins by taking the post of diksha guru, and how neophytes taking these sins will pull them down.
So its amazing, not only the mass is dead and dying, the gurus are often dead and dying from making severe offenses ... this process kills the perpetrators and the victims equally?
Second Conversation With Srila Sridhara Maharaja, Part 9
SM: Bengali:
If I have to say something formally from outside, then I have to say that among you who enjoy the greatest confidence of all the devotees, through such a man you call for a meeting in America or wherever the field is the most important. And in that meeting, the ones, those who are willing to boldly face the situation, participate, the GBCs, those who you feel are dissatisfied inwardly, call them and call a few acaryas like Ramesvara Maharaja who are sympathetic.
And then in the meeting you record the feeling of different devotees and then with the strength of that resolution you call for their explanation that, "What you are doing in the name of Prabhupada? You are not absolutely infallible. Due to your activities the mass of the disciples of Prabhupada has become very bewildered. They are becoming very disappointed and they can see that a great loss is going to be incurred by the ISKCON society. The ISKCON society is in danger." [-->]
[PADA: Right, the mass of devotees are rejecting the "appointed guru" program right out of the gate. Thus the mass of devotees are bewildered, disappointed, unhappy and they see that the entire society is in danger of failing. The mass of devotees in sum see that the GBC's gurus are not on the platform of actual gurus, i.e. absolute and infallible. Yes, the mass of devotees see that these living gurus are creating a situation where ISKCON is in great danger of failing and falling. Sometimes people say Sridhara Maharaja / the GBC / Bhakti Caru etc. "did not know there was a crisis." Nope, they were discussing the "guru" crisis early on, and so were the mass of devotees.]
SM: So now you all reconsider yourselves and appeal to them to readjust themselves and thus this disaster can be saved.
[PADA: Right, the mass of devotees are rejecting the "appointed guru" program right out of the gate. Thus the mass of devotees are bewildered, disappointed, unhappy and they see that the entire society is in danger of failing. The mass of devotees in sum see that the GBC's gurus are not on the platform of actual gurus, i.e. absolute and infallible. Yes, the mass of devotees see that these living gurus are creating a situation where ISKCON is in great danger of failing and falling. Sometimes people say Sridhara Maharaja / the GBC / Bhakti Caru etc. "did not know there was a crisis." Nope, they were discussing the "guru" crisis early on, and so were the mass of devotees.]
SM: So now you all reconsider yourselves and appeal to them to readjust themselves and thus this disaster can be saved.
[PADA: Right, you have to appease the complaints of the mass of devotees otherwise, the (mass exodus) disaster simply gets worse.]
"So many devotees are leaving the movement. So many devotees have become half-dead, and so many devotees have already died. And so many are lamenting and we cannot just sit idly without trying to rectify the situation. We ourselves do not want any position, but what is going on is intolerable. It shows that the major portion is going to die. So we want some action to rectify this situation. We want some remedy for this. This must be thought out and accepted." [-->]
[PADA: Right, the GBC / Rocana / Gaudiya Matha / Torben / Ajit Krishna / Hanuman Croatia et al. "living guru" program is making the entire MASS of devotees half dead, and many have died already. The situation is intolerable. We need to remedy the situation, its a crisis. Sounds like a real vote of confidence?
These living gurus are making the devotees feel half dead, or even feel totally dead (spiritually) in fact. In other words the living gurus are killing the spiritual enthusiasm of the mass of devotees and thus they are squashing the life essence out of ISKCON and its devotees. One big book distributor told me in 1980 he could no longer distribute books, he lost his enthusiasm. He did not want to invite people to come to ISKCON to worship fools like Hansadutta, so he gave up and went out to the karmi world. So this living guru process was draining the manpower out of the society, and was crushing the enthusiasm of the very people required to make the society function.]
SM: So with this idea, you form a committee, make a resolution, and then selectively invite to come. In this way you call for a meeting, pass a resolution, and then cal for them and ask them to readjust their position and reconsider. Otherwise we shall be in painful necessity to make progress independently. You can say this in this line. (SM repeats this in English)
[PADA: Right, unless the God brothers are re-united with the movement they will go on independently without the society. The mass exodus / purge will continue and get worse. Correct. By 1985 Berkeley only had three Prabhupada devotees left, one of them was Hansaudutta. Everyone else had been purged out.]
SM: English: If you are.. so many good men, good followers of Swami Maharaja are exhaustably, frustrated, then you may do one thing. You may call a mass meeting of the followers and the well-wishers of your Prabhupada. And there you may … may discuss the present hopeless situation of the society, that it is gradually dwindling and dwindling, and it is intolerable to us.
SM: English: If you are.. so many good men, good followers of Swami Maharaja are exhaustably, frustrated, then you may do one thing. You may call a mass meeting of the followers and the well-wishers of your Prabhupada. And there you may … may discuss the present hopeless situation of the society, that it is gradually dwindling and dwindling, and it is intolerable to us.
[PADA: Yep, under the GBC and Rocana's living gurus, the situation has become hopeless, the society is dwindling and dwindling, simultaneously the GBC guru's scandals and crises are increasing. Yep!]
SM: We are well-wishers of this mission and it is intolerable, we cannot tolerate any more. So what is the path before us to redress the wrong? Hmm. So invite a general meeting and you also invite some of the GBC members and if possible acarya like Ramesvara and so… and you amongst yourself, consult amongst yourself what to do. And then give an ultimatum to the acarya board. [-->]
[PADA: Well there is no point in giving an ultimatum to the acharya board, because none of them are acharyas? This is the problem with Sridhara Maharaja / Rocana etc. they think they can "advise and correct" their bogus rubber stamped acharyas. This never works, a person who thinks he is as good as Jesus is not going to listen to anyone, just like the bogus Jesus in Bellvue mental home do not listen to anyone's advice. These GBC's should never have been empowered and enabled to take the post of guru in the first place.]
SM: Our resolution at the mass meeting of the followers of Prabhupada is this: that you should readjust your position, or otherwise we shall be under painful necessity to take the line independently, for the welfare of the whole mission. We cannot be a sightseer, that so many are going astray, and so many dying, and so many are going to be killed and these things. It is intolerable.
[PADA: Yes, the mass exodus and purge process was well known to everyone even early on. Oddly, Sridhara Maharaja also said that Hansadutta has to stay in the guru seat, and SM was saying Hansadutta has to remain as the guru even up to 1985? So he was supporting both the dissenters and the evil regime at the same time.]
SM: High time. And you must come to __________. In this way you can… if you feel that the mass will be with you, at least a substantial portion will be with you, and those that are gone astray that… Pradyumna and others, you may also invite them. The dissatisfied. Before mass meeting, you can have a selected meeting also, first and then after consultation you go on to for a … prepare yourself for a mass meeting.
DKS: Yes.
SM: First selected few meeting.
DKS: Definitely, at our Mayapur meeting next year, there will, some… a meeting also of the temple presidents who are also dissatisfied and…
SM: There are many… this first… the stalwarts meet first. And then a mass meeting you arrange. And the… after the stalwarts meeting, meeting of the handful, leading persons among you, you may give some ultimatum to the acarya board that this is going to happen, and it will be… the publicity will be great and it will be to your discredit.
So try to come to our terms, consult, consultation and readjustment. But if you have argument then will be forced to prepare for a mass meeting of the… our godbrothers and to do the needful. This process you may take. Before that your group, committee resolution, should be intimated to them and last appeal to their good sense. The mass ______________ revolted against you.
We feel we are also sincere workers, we want to sacrifice our life, and our… I think our life is valuable. So seeing that you are going ostensibly, we see that you are leading astray. We cannot remain, impartial viewer, or only a visitor. We have got interest in the mission. You should know this and not less than you. In this way you can do. What do you say?
BCS: Yes, Maharaja.
SM: Selected meeting and then approach them with a resolution and next mass meeting. If you are prepared for real fighting. You can do like that.
BCS: I think that it is going to be like this…
SM: Personal contact. Those that are going independent, hopeless, disappointed, going off, away from the association, you may meet them personally one by one. Let us come together. In this way a stalwart meeting will be first and then the resolution will be given, notice given to them and then mass meeting. And there it should be mentioned that we cannot be sightseer. We have got life interest in the mission. We come to save. And if we say that in the name of saving… you are all killers, we cannot tolerate that. We have also got fire, the spark from our guru maharaja, eh?
BCS: I think first Ramesvara Maharaja will try, after this, after he hears this tape, like he will try to get the other gurus to get together and come to you for advice, and if they don't do that…
SM: I am open to all. Generally I want that both parties will come and I shall try to help that it may not be broken asunder, torn asunder. Such a great thing has been done by Swami Maharaja, I love it very much. That a worldwide movement, organization that will be broken into faction, I can't tolerate this. So I like both parties will come and I shall try to find out a middle solution. But the party in power they may not care to come. I am… for a long time I am feeling that whenever I have dome upon a person going dissatisfied, dissatisfaction is going within the party. I am certain and unhappy.
But the party in power does not care to come to me. Both the parties come, I want some sort of compromise, of course helpful compromise, not _____________ compromise. Helpful compromise may be affected and the united front will be kept up intact. That is desirable, for me at least. I am not… long time to live. I am sufficiently old but I don't like to see that Swami Maharaja's great work is disturbed in such a ways.
So laudable a thing. prthivite ahce yata nagar adi gram / sarvatra pracara hoibe mora nam. This great action undertaken by Swami Maharaja effectively successful, that is going to be ruined by internal fued? Intolerable. So if both the parties come I shall try my best before I die that I want to see a united front and a healthy thing. Healthy institution, that is my heart's desire.
BCS: That is what most of the godbrothers also feel. They feel that whatever Sridhara Maharaja says, we will accept the decision.
SM: In the core of my heart I desire such. That it may be broken… it may remain united front and do the victory over the other religious principles. There are so many enemies in the name of religion, they are flourishing and such a great future will be lost? It is intolerable. And especially Prabhupada asked me to go to the West. I could not go, but the, Prabhupada has come the West to me, so I must have got some holy duty to discharge about that, I feel. So anyhow, it may not be broken into pieces. United we stand, divided we fall. But if hopeless then no alternative. For the sake of the truth… we must always side with the truth and not with the falsehood. Hare Krsna. Gaur Haribol.
All: Bengali
SM: I can feel… I saw that in him, and Swami Maharaja, he took the responsibility of that great unfinished work and did wonderfully successful work and we feel proud for him, we feel pride for his activity and how can we tolerate in our lifetime, within two or three years after his departure it will be broken into pieces? It is intolerable. Hare Krsna. But if for the sake of quality, for the sake of truth, we are to face such situation, can't help, truth is everything. satyam param dhimahi. Gaur Haribol. Jaya Caitanya.
This concludes "Second Conversation With Srila Sridhara Maharaja"
[PADA: Yes, first of all Sridhara Maharaja supported the acharya board, then later he said we should have mass meetings to discuss compromise with them, but the Pandora's box was already opened. The GBC gurus now felt they were the unchallenged authority and they were God's representatives on earth, and thus no one could challenge God's spokesmen and representatives. So they created a fanatical personal cult program, which has still never been uprooted even up to now. Sridhara Maharaja said we should get the sympathetic like Ramesvara, but he was making a very fanatical program in Los Angeles, where dissenters were banned, exiled, some were allegedly beaten and later one was murdered. Hence Ramesvara was called "Srila Ragesvara" by some of the dissenters, he was not a moderate as Sridhara Maharaja assumed. ys pd]
[PADA: Well there is no point in giving an ultimatum to the acharya board, because none of them are acharyas? This is the problem with Sridhara Maharaja / Rocana etc. they think they can "advise and correct" their bogus rubber stamped acharyas. This never works, a person who thinks he is as good as Jesus is not going to listen to anyone, just like the bogus Jesus in Bellvue mental home do not listen to anyone's advice. These GBC's should never have been empowered and enabled to take the post of guru in the first place.]
SM: Our resolution at the mass meeting of the followers of Prabhupada is this: that you should readjust your position, or otherwise we shall be under painful necessity to take the line independently, for the welfare of the whole mission. We cannot be a sightseer, that so many are going astray, and so many dying, and so many are going to be killed and these things. It is intolerable.
[PADA: Yes, the mass exodus and purge process was well known to everyone even early on. Oddly, Sridhara Maharaja also said that Hansadutta has to stay in the guru seat, and SM was saying Hansadutta has to remain as the guru even up to 1985? So he was supporting both the dissenters and the evil regime at the same time.]
SM: High time. And you must come to __________. In this way you can… if you feel that the mass will be with you, at least a substantial portion will be with you, and those that are gone astray that… Pradyumna and others, you may also invite them. The dissatisfied. Before mass meeting, you can have a selected meeting also, first and then after consultation you go on to for a … prepare yourself for a mass meeting.
DKS: Yes.
SM: First selected few meeting.
DKS: Definitely, at our Mayapur meeting next year, there will, some… a meeting also of the temple presidents who are also dissatisfied and…
SM: There are many… this first… the stalwarts meet first. And then a mass meeting you arrange. And the… after the stalwarts meeting, meeting of the handful, leading persons among you, you may give some ultimatum to the acarya board that this is going to happen, and it will be… the publicity will be great and it will be to your discredit.
So try to come to our terms, consult, consultation and readjustment. But if you have argument then will be forced to prepare for a mass meeting of the… our godbrothers and to do the needful. This process you may take. Before that your group, committee resolution, should be intimated to them and last appeal to their good sense. The mass ______________ revolted against you.
We feel we are also sincere workers, we want to sacrifice our life, and our… I think our life is valuable. So seeing that you are going ostensibly, we see that you are leading astray. We cannot remain, impartial viewer, or only a visitor. We have got interest in the mission. You should know this and not less than you. In this way you can do. What do you say?
BCS: Yes, Maharaja.
SM: Selected meeting and then approach them with a resolution and next mass meeting. If you are prepared for real fighting. You can do like that.
BCS: I think that it is going to be like this…
SM: Personal contact. Those that are going independent, hopeless, disappointed, going off, away from the association, you may meet them personally one by one. Let us come together. In this way a stalwart meeting will be first and then the resolution will be given, notice given to them and then mass meeting. And there it should be mentioned that we cannot be sightseer. We have got life interest in the mission. We come to save. And if we say that in the name of saving… you are all killers, we cannot tolerate that. We have also got fire, the spark from our guru maharaja, eh?
BCS: I think first Ramesvara Maharaja will try, after this, after he hears this tape, like he will try to get the other gurus to get together and come to you for advice, and if they don't do that…
SM: I am open to all. Generally I want that both parties will come and I shall try to help that it may not be broken asunder, torn asunder. Such a great thing has been done by Swami Maharaja, I love it very much. That a worldwide movement, organization that will be broken into faction, I can't tolerate this. So I like both parties will come and I shall try to find out a middle solution. But the party in power they may not care to come. I am… for a long time I am feeling that whenever I have dome upon a person going dissatisfied, dissatisfaction is going within the party. I am certain and unhappy.
But the party in power does not care to come to me. Both the parties come, I want some sort of compromise, of course helpful compromise, not _____________ compromise. Helpful compromise may be affected and the united front will be kept up intact. That is desirable, for me at least. I am not… long time to live. I am sufficiently old but I don't like to see that Swami Maharaja's great work is disturbed in such a ways.
So laudable a thing. prthivite ahce yata nagar adi gram / sarvatra pracara hoibe mora nam. This great action undertaken by Swami Maharaja effectively successful, that is going to be ruined by internal fued? Intolerable. So if both the parties come I shall try my best before I die that I want to see a united front and a healthy thing. Healthy institution, that is my heart's desire.
BCS: That is what most of the godbrothers also feel. They feel that whatever Sridhara Maharaja says, we will accept the decision.
SM: In the core of my heart I desire such. That it may be broken… it may remain united front and do the victory over the other religious principles. There are so many enemies in the name of religion, they are flourishing and such a great future will be lost? It is intolerable. And especially Prabhupada asked me to go to the West. I could not go, but the, Prabhupada has come the West to me, so I must have got some holy duty to discharge about that, I feel. So anyhow, it may not be broken into pieces. United we stand, divided we fall. But if hopeless then no alternative. For the sake of the truth… we must always side with the truth and not with the falsehood. Hare Krsna. Gaur Haribol.
All: Bengali
SM: I can feel… I saw that in him, and Swami Maharaja, he took the responsibility of that great unfinished work and did wonderfully successful work and we feel proud for him, we feel pride for his activity and how can we tolerate in our lifetime, within two or three years after his departure it will be broken into pieces? It is intolerable. Hare Krsna. But if for the sake of quality, for the sake of truth, we are to face such situation, can't help, truth is everything. satyam param dhimahi. Gaur Haribol. Jaya Caitanya.
This concludes "Second Conversation With Srila Sridhara Maharaja"
[PADA: Yes, first of all Sridhara Maharaja supported the acharya board, then later he said we should have mass meetings to discuss compromise with them, but the Pandora's box was already opened. The GBC gurus now felt they were the unchallenged authority and they were God's representatives on earth, and thus no one could challenge God's spokesmen and representatives. So they created a fanatical personal cult program, which has still never been uprooted even up to now. Sridhara Maharaja said we should get the sympathetic like Ramesvara, but he was making a very fanatical program in Los Angeles, where dissenters were banned, exiled, some were allegedly beaten and later one was murdered. Hence Ramesvara was called "Srila Ragesvara" by some of the dissenters, he was not a moderate as Sridhara Maharaja assumed. ys pd]
You can make tricks to become worshiped, but it only lasts for awhile.
Of course madness is another result of imitation of guru
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