Hilarious attempt to discuss philosophy in the Gestapo society
By Hanuman das
RE: Censorship, Ananda Tirtha das PVS, Braja Sevaki, Braja Sorensen, India, Mayapur
This entry is part 2 of 2 in the series Mayapur Swamp monster
Mayapur Swamp monster
Greasy Gestapo monsters surface from the Mayapur swamp. Hilarious attempt to discuss philosophy in the Gestapo society. We are continuing to report on the Mayapur Gestapo monsters. Things just got significantly worse.
A few days ago we reported on the Mayapur forum philosophical discussion that descended into another Gestapo persecution.
One of the most interesting activities in Krishna consciousness is discussing various points from Srila Prabhupada’s books. I adore having philosophical debates about application and challenges of Krishna consciousness. I find it highly pleasurable to write philosophical articles, make videos, and lately also having live Zoom meetings with devotees around the world.
However, I never participate in debates within the ISKCON society, because I consider it’s members seriously deranged fanatics who are not able to provide quotes from Srila Prabhupada’s books. Even worse, the majority of ISKCON members are not able to compose three sentences of a rational line of thought. And their Gestapo masters who moderate their forums and groups are even more mentally challenged.
Yesterday, we saw a small snippet of craziness of ISKCON members by publishing an insulting email by crazy ISKCON follower insults a person who she doesn’t agree with. Well, since yesterday, things got even worse. The devotee who was insulted by a deranged woman in front of everybody is now banned from posting to the forum for the next two months.
It’s like a gang beats the store-owner and steals all his money, and when the police officers arrive, and beat store-owner one more time.
Recap
Yesterday, we published only the email written by Braja Sevaki who requires that her philosophical opponent be removed from the forum. She was allegedly annoyed by Patita Pavana who said that people who discuss philosophy should not be treated by vicious, venomous mood. He didn’t even mention the mataji by name, he just mentioned the mood. Why did he use that term? Well, you should read Braja Sevaki’s email from day earlier, and then maybe you will get the idea why venomous mood is mentioned:
On Sat, Jan 9, 2021, 8:08 AM Braja Sevaki dd <braja.sorensen@gmail.com> wrote:
…and I’m pretty sure that had Srila Prabhupada written that note in current times, the “frivolous” would have been directed at writing lengthy and pointless posts on the internet, especially when those posts are accompanied by the insidious virus of thinking oneself an authority on others’ behaviours. I’m a WHOLE lot more suspicious of someone who spends so much time “instructing” others on the internet than I am of a group of young boys in ISKCON playing a 45 minute game of football.
[PADA: GBC gurus like Satsvarupa watching football, or ISKCON devotees playing football, is merely one -- among the many other -- deviation problems. We have to judge a thing by its result, and the result of GBC's preaching since 1978 is -- that people being trained at the "Mayapur disciples class" are being told it is common for Krishna's gurus to fall down. And when your guru does fall down, you get a new guru (who was voted in by your original guru who fell down?). The bogus brain surgeon, will certify your next brain surgeon?
To sum, they are preaching that Krishna's successor gurus are often falling into illicit sex with men, women and children, and / or their gurus are "voted in" by the same debauchee guru program described above etc. Football is merely one other deviation added to the existing huge pile of the molester messiah's project's deviations.]
So, she was the one who started it all. He started accusing him of having an “insidious virus”. And she also thinks that playing football is better than quoting Srila Prabhupada.
Berzerk mode
The situation escalated very quickly, just because you hold a certain opinion about playing football in the Holy dhama, you might receive a letter like this (written by Braja Sevaki, emphasis mine):
Re: Srila Prabhupada’s NOTICE to ISKCON members – notice the point on
Football (frivolous sports)
On Saturday, 9 January 2021 at 8:54:20 am UTC+5:30 Patita-pavana Nitai Gaura
Dasa wrote:
> Srila Prabhupada would be sad to see someone claiming to be his follower
> for decades, putting down others condescendingly, those who actually
> understood his teachings well in a short time is not given any value but
> treated in a vicious, venomous mood.
I haven’t seen anyone posting “vicious and venomous” comments, or being condescending; it’s likely you’re projecting your own internal wranglings. You are offensive to everyone, but you mistakenly think that couching your words in polite phrases makes it okay. It does not. Please know, I have kept the private emails you’ve sent me some time back where you unleashed in the most telling way, informing me how you’re an important devotee, and so on, and name-calling and being abusive. Actually I didn’t have to keep them: you foolishly copied management on them, so sure you were that you were entitled to write such emails. So, “vicious, venomous, and condescending” seems to be your field of play.
You have not even understood the basics of Srila Prabhupada’s teachings at all, what to speak of anything more advanced–a fact that is evidenced in your name-calling of everyone I’ve seen you deal with, your criticisms of anyone who dares disagree with you, your holier-than-thou mood, your constant sniping and negativity, and your total lack of service, intelligence, etiquette, decency—I could go on, but basically everything you do is riddled with offensiveness, and you’re in stark denial of that. You need help.
You responded to Manideep prabhu’s post about the Shanti Cafe when he posted an ad, criticising them for “unhealthy” food, and you think you’re so clever, writing it in what you so deludely think is a “polite” way: it’s outright offensive and rude. You called a senior devotee, Visnu Murti Prabhu, a “sahajiya” because he tried to correct you: someone who has done decades of service and leaves you in the dust in every conceivable way. You have no ability to distinguish who anyone is, which makes you so incredibly offensive: you’re not speaking to just anyone, you’re speaking to devotees who have done mountains of service, far far more than you’ll ever hope to do. You are clueless about peoples’ devotional backgrounds, you are, every single time, offtrack, wrong, misguided, incorrect, rude, offensive, and, sorry, but just plain stupid.
And why have you added so many names to this post, and not just let it be posted on the Forum? You’ve added Pancaratna Prabhu, Hari Sauri Prabhu, Pankajanghri Prabhu, Subheksana Prabhu–devotees I have known for decades, whom I have served, and with whom I have long relationships. Do you believe they will support you speaking this way? Calling me vicious, venomous, and condescending, and that I am someone who only “claims” to be a follower of Srila Prabhupada? You can call me anything you want (and remember those old emails: you have!), and I couldn’t care less–I believe I replied with a rather laughing mood when you did that. But to tell me I’m not actually a follower of Prabhupada? You have crossed a line.
Perhaps you’d like to speak to Sivarama Swami and ask him why he so deludedly trusts me with his work: his writing, his words, his editing … rewriting and changing and assisting in his writing. Clearly you should be his editor, since you know so much better than me. Perhaps you can ask him why, for 15 years, he has suffered from the deluded idea that I know Prabhupada’s teachings. Perhaps you can ask him what kind of knowledge, practice, and background he expects of someone he’d entrust that position to. Are you getting this yet? Is this making even a tiny dent in your thick, thick armour of ego?
So don’t write another word. Don’t answer this. Don’t foolishly think I desire any communication or correspondence with you—you need to understand one thing: you are being told. You are a junior, in every conceivable way, and it would serve you well to understand I am not interested in “discussing” anything with you while you hold this monstrously offensive idea that you’re superior to everyone.
You are a nuisance, so bite your tongue, learn some self-control, rein in your ego, and don’t respond. Ask any one of the people you have cc’d this to: any one of them. Ask them if they think you should offer any response to this except an apology …. which I know is something that will never, ever be uttered by you. Never. It is beyond your capacity to do that. Prove me wrong, but I doubt you’re capable.
You’ve literally destroyed this Forum for many people. So many want nothing to do with this Forum because you can’t control yourself. So be quiet, be told, and learn some manners and humility. You’re in dire need of both. There will be no communication, no further correspondence, until next time my husband and I are at Rasamrita Kunja, and we’ll have a chat in person.
Until then, do as you’re told. For once.
Braja Sevaki dd
[PADA: Yep, the people who supported the illicit sex with men, women and children guru parampara are asking others -- to apologize -- for criticizing their program. Wait, we need to apologize for opposing their illicit sex debauchees being worshiped as God's successors program, and burying some of these said debauchees in samadhis in the dham etc.?
Sivarama is "God's successor," because he is 2/3 show of hands voted into the "illicit sex with taxi drivers in the dham" program, and we need to apologize for criticizing that program -- of people having illicit sex with taxi drivers in the dham, while claiming to be Vishnupada acharyas? And fools like Sivarama are getting voted in to that parampara? And then we need to ask Braja Sevaka, why is she suporting a program that says God's gurus (successors) are debauchees, or the people voted in by debauchees, etc. OK never mind, no answer is the usual answer.]
See? There is not one point about football here. Not one quote. Only personal attacks and personal insults. This is the level of discussion you can expect in a Gestapo society. The main idea that permeates the whole letter is that you should never challenge your superiors, no matter how stupid they are.
So, in the end, she literally tells him “Be quiet, don’t write anything on the forum until I and my husband chat with you in person.” This abominable anti-intellectual society called ISKCON was created by terrible people who still insist to portray themselves as Srila Prabhupada followers.
Violent thug husband
Wait, this is not all. There is more. The next day, a violent thug husband sends another email threatening violence and throwing even worse insults (emphasis mine):
On Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 1:17 PM <jahnudvip@gmail.com> wrote:
I just saw how you speak to my wife. What makes you think we have anything to learn from a nobody, piss-ant little sh*t like you about what Srila Prabhupada wants? I was out distributing Srila Prabhupada’s books before you were even born, bozo, and so was my wife. You really need to learn some devotional etiquette, before you address your superiors, get it? Or do I need to smack some sense into you?
[PADA: What is "superior" about telling little children they have to worship an illicit sex with men, women and children guru program to get to God? Yep! If you want to get to God, you'll have to worship our debauchee's guru parampara of: drunks, drug addicts, porno swamis, homosexuals, sexual predators, Reno gamblers, LSD crazies, orchestrators of murders of dissenters, and people who are burying known pedophiles and porno swamis in the dham.
This guy was distributing books, which say -- that odious process is the path to God? Nope, that is not what the books say, the books say we have to worship the pure devotees and not worship debauchees and deviants. He is self-evidently not reading the books.]
Jahnu das – the bozo smacker. I am awestruck by the humbleness of this guy. Just like all previous acaryas, he considers himself insignificant, just like a blade of grass. But even the blade of grass is more important than piss-ant little sh*t.
And look at the genius reply by Patita Pavana, completely calm, completely non-insulting, and completely rational:
———- Forwarded message ———
From: Patita-pāvana Nitāi Gaura Dāsa <praveen.punnam@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, Jan 10, 2021 at 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: “smack some sense into you”
To: Jahnu Dasa <jahnudvip@gmail.com>, Braja Sevaki dd <braja.sorensen@gmail.com>
No need to learn from me. Just learn from Śrila Prabhupāda’s teachings by giving up such cheap attributes of your personalities.
So, what if you were distributing books before I was even born? Your service is definitely appreciated but here we are discussing your progress in spiritual life and your attitude towards other devotees, your understanding and application of Śrila Prabhupāda’s teachings and concerns of your directly opposing his instructions? 2 different things?
And, do you know what I was doing in my previous life? (I was told that I was one of Tirupati Balaji’s main pujaris in my past life). Superior is by behavior and example. Where is the grace and honor of being senior devotees? Clearly missing, ain’t it? How do you plan to smack some sense into me?
Patita-pāvana Nitāi Gaura Dāsa.
The aftermath
Individuals who enjoying insulting people and threatening them exist in every society. Therefore, every society has mechanisms to curb such elements through police inquiries, fines, and other methods of keeping the law and order. Not in ISKCON, ISKCON leaders enjoy punishing the victims instead of criminals. Introducing Ananda Tirtha das, the forum moderator, aka “The righteous one”.
Ananda Tirtha das, the righteous one
Following the logic known only to him, he decided to award arrogance, threats, and insults. So, he sends the following email to the victim, banning him from posting anything to the forum, and at the same time doing nothing to curb the crazies (emphasis mine):
From: Ananda Tirtha (das) PVS (Mayapur – IN) <Ananda.Tirtha.PVS@pamho.net>
Date: Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 8:11 AM
Subject: {Mayapur Forum} Membership/complaints
To: mayapur-forum <mayapur-forum@googlegroups.com>
Dear Devotees,
Following several complaints, we are for the second time removing Patita Pavana Nitai Das’s posting rights for Mayapur Forum for a two-month period. He will still be a member, but unable to post. We had done this previously, and then re-allowed him under restrictions, but seeing that he has gradually ignored them we are taking this step again.
Please find the Forum Guidelines and general info at the end of this message. Our apologies to those who were disturbed by his texts. If anyone has strong opinions either for or against this decision, you may write to me privately.
Your servant,
ATD
____________________________________________________________________________
Dear Devotees,
Please accept our humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
The Mayapur Forum is a platform for information exchange between devotees on a wide range of topics. Our aim is to provide a forum for communication which is interesting, relevant and respectful, which encourages community interaction and cohesiveness and which does not promote self-aggrandizement nor direct or implied criticism of others in an attempt to settle personal grievances.
Please understand that all posts are screened by a moderator, so there may be some delay between sending your text and it appearing on the Forum.
Here are the guidelines for using the Forum:
Guidelines for posting on the Forum:
1. Write your texts in English only (or in your language with an English translation).
2. Always sign your posts (unsigned posts will not be published unless previously agreed for specific reasons).
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4. No harsh criticism. If you need to comment on the shortcomings of a service, for example, do so in a way that relays facts in an objective way, using non-confrontational language.
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If a posting does not follow this code, we may ask you to amend it.
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Your servants on the Mayapur Forum Moderation Team,
================
The rationale
Now you probably have trouble understanding why the victim was punished. You are probably wondering if Ananda Tirtha is naturally stupid or he took some training. However, there is a perfectly rational explanation of his action which I will try to explain.
Closed societies that are controlled by the religious mafia don’t operate under the scrutiny of public opinion. They don’t care about public opinion in the real sense of the word. They consider everybody on the outside as daemon / materialist / nobody. They care about public opinion only if it is connected with their income.
There is no such thing as a public opinion within the walls in ISKCON. The protest is not allowed. Expressing your own opinion is not allowed. Similar to Communist China, exposing the corrupt leaders is packaged as “fault-finding the pure devotees”, and that is not allowed either.
There is no right and wrong in ISKCON. There are only those in power and those who are controlled by the powerful. Those in power are always right, and those who don’t hold any position of power are always wrong. There is no need for these two groups to discuss anything.
If you understand those few simple points, then you can understand why thugs as not treated as criminals, and why victims are not treated as victims. Although Patita Pavana tried to prove that playing football in the Holy dhama is objectionable, indirectly, he suggested that management did something wrong. Violence threatening thug and his wife were in this particular case treated as the “protectors of the regime” and “the defenders of the management”.
Cowardly management doesn’t want to face criticism directly, rather, they are hiding in their offices, and letting their Gestapo moderators and violence-threatening thugs do their bidding.
The consequences
Let us not forget that the “Flock of the same feather, flock together”. What kind of people will be attracted to take a position in ISKCON? Violent enforcers, party men, ex Chinese communist party members, brainless people who love to be controlled and hate independent living and independent thinking.
Not a single guru, sannyasi, manager, or some other “extremely pure” devotee didn’t step up to fix this injustice. Therefore, ISKCON continues to sink lower and lower. You don’t have to be a genius or a great astrologer to see the future of ISKCON. Violent thugs who are not curbed by the management will attract more violent thugs to the movement. Due to the atmosphere permeated by the violent thugs, real intellectuals will either leave the movement or stay quiet.
Once intellectuals leave the movement or become silent, absolute truth will gradually disappear. As sincere people are banned from “fault-finding” the deviations, weird philosophies will spring up unchallenged. Gurus will consider that their main duty is to collect donations and convince the rest of the society not to criticize. To keep all those diverging groups within one society, prominent gurus will preach about love, friendship and emotions.
But love and friendship will not be given to those who are trying to expose deviations. Soon, for any man with dignity, honesty, and some intelligence, existence within the movement will become unbearable. Divorce rates will go through the roof, children will suffer being raised by single mothers. Krishna consciousness will no longer be mentioned, all discussions will be about yoga, astrology, Vastu, Indradyumna Swami’s dancing girls, and other pseudo-Vedic topics. Anyone quoting directly from Srila Prabhupada books will be considered a puffed-up nobody who thinks highly of himself.
Now, if I managed to frighten you with my scary vision of the future, keep in mind that the future of this movement depends on every single member. Every time you ignore justice, every time you remain silent, you are helping society to go in the wrong direction.
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