krishna1008

Monday, September 23, 2013

Message from the Sanat / Prahlad / Mukunda / Illumintati-ites

http://youtu.be/no0HvQcQlyc (by Muktipada das)

See related article:

http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2012/12/muktipada-quits-sanat-steve-voith.html

PADA: The (anti) Illuminati-ites now claim "the Illuminati" wants to kill them. Question? If the Illuminati has sent a representative to talk to Muktipada das, and this representative wants to have him kill Sanat, why not report that Illuminati representative to the police? If the message from them came from a phone call, e-mail, or some other means, the FBI could trace that back to the source with their forensic technology. The Illuminati-ites never do that? We never find out who the actual culprits are, or even, if they exist?

This seems to be the problem with these folks, they want PADA to join with them in attacking the Illuminati, but they cannot identify who that is exactly, or even if such an organization even exists at all?

This sounds like a phantom operation, which has no basis in real life. Why would the Illuminati want to kill Sanat / Steve Voith -- who is getting psychological evaluations and social security payments for being crazy anyway? And if the Illuminati is all powerful, why have they not had us killed -- a long time ago?

And why would they give the job of hit man to Muktipada / Martin Goldman, who is not a hit man, but is a friend of Steve Voith? Sorry, this sounds like the Prahlad / Bhakta das / Sanat / Mukunda / Tamohara / Pancali / Janardan etc. crew are -- not taking their medications?

=========================

Message from the Illuminati to the Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad group:

Everything I speak of here about the illuminati agents contacting me occurred on Second Life in voice with pixelated avatars. This is the only text I recovered and it is condensed slighty although I can and will provide a full version if requested to:

[2013/09/23 02:26] Ariel (ariel.silversmith): my family is part of the Illuminati[2013/09/23 02:29] AmigaGonzales: thats what the illuminati is all about
[2013/09/23 02:29] AmigaGonzales: jews only
[2013/09/23 02:30] Ariel (ariel.silversmith): sign the contract
[2013/09/23 02:37] Ariel (ariel.silversmith): i don't think the elders will aprove at all
37] AmigaGonzales: but we cant control anything you do on your own
[2013/09/23 02:38] AmigaGonzales: hint hint
[2013/09/23 02:46] Ariel (ariel.silversmith): i'm really horny right now
[2013/09/23 02:50] AmigaGonzales: code 6

=======================================

[PADA: Jews only? OK, some of these Illuminati folks says that evil Zionists are in control of ISKCON, but is Martin Goldman of Jewish origins? Or what? And then on the message notice Ariel says "I am really horny right now." "I am really horny right now," is about killing people? Not making much sense here?

The Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad program also wanted people to worship Bob Dylan and put his photos on the altars, aka Robert Zimmerman, who was also from a Jewish background? Meanwhile, other people are writing to us saying -- this group is promoting neo-nazi-ism in the name of Krishna.

Then again the Illuminati was supposed to be a European operation, not a Jewish one? Are these people reading their history correctly?

And these are the people who want to take over the reform of ISKCON? This is the program of people like Prahlad, who are getting their messages from their "second life pixelated avatars"? In any case, it seems all they are doing is confusing people instead of fixing anything. This is really sad because it sounds to us like another Aniruddha type meltdown.

The good news is, that more people are waking up to the fact that Srila Prabhupada's movement was hi-jacked, the bad news is, some of these people are diverting away from the real culprits and sending us on a wild goose chase to fight phantom culprits and not the real trouble makers.

Then again, this is what happens when people mix up all kinds of: Illuminati, Skull and Bones, CIA, chemtrails, pixelated avatars, Jewish conspiracy, and all these things we commonly find in the Tamohara / Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad / Muktipada / Janardana / Bhakta das program. The ordinary people even know, this is nutty-ness, which is why they gave Sanat SSI for being crazy, they know these people are not sane and that they cannot deal with the real issues afflicting themselves and ISKCON. This is sad, these people are simply another wave of victims of the GBC's bogus gurus, and they cannot seem to find a way out. ys pd

==============================

NOTE ADDED 9/23/13

Thanks prabhu, yes the illuminati folks started their own "Prabhupadangas UK" group which has only 12 members, and the only poster, i.e. Prahlad das. And he has not even posted anything since July. Its dead. Our blog gets over 1,000 hits in one day, and sometimes 2 - 3,000 hits on certain days. The illuminutty folks are not being taken seriously because they have major holes in their ideas. No wonder their main point man Muktipada dasa says -- these people are abusive and have been driving him (and others) crazy.

* Yes, there is also no indication from Srila Prabhupada that he endorsed Prahlad's meat eating illuminati speakers and their DVDs. None.

* Yes, Prahlad is telling people to stop listening to the followers of Srila Prabhupada / Prabhupadanugas / PADA, and listen to his meat eating DVD authorities. Yes, this is driving them and anyone who listens to them cracker pots.

* Yes, that means they think their meat eater speakers are superior authorities to the Vaishnavas.

* Yes, Prahlad is trying to link Srila Prabhupada to his meat eating DVD program. Where does Srila Prabhupada even remotely say, we need to listen to Prahlad's meat eater speakers?

* Yes, Srila Prabhupada says just the opposite, we should avoid hearing from these mundane speculators.

* Yes, the Prahlad group has aligned themselves with Tamohara das, who is always citing the problems he is having with: The CIA, The Skull and Bones society, The Illuminati, The 9/11 truthers, and of course the passenger airplanes that are crop dusting the masses with chem-trails, and who knows what else. Even normal karmi citizens know this Tamohara fellow is a total paranoid lunatic.

* Yes, Tamohara is also saying that Gaura Govinda swami is a pure devotee. Yes, GGM is voted in as a guru at the recoronation of Bhavananda. Yes, that means the Prahlad group is endorsing the pedophile guru program by their endorsing people like Tamohara, a cheer leader of a GBC guru.

* Yes, the Sanat / Mukunda / Prahlad group, said "lawyers are all nonsense" and PADA is foolish to use lawyers when we had the BBT sued for changed books. Yes, that means they did not want the original books to happen.

* Yes, this same group is promoting Bhakta das, who is the biggest cheerleader of Radhanath swami and the GBC guru system.

* Yes, this is either madness, or a clever disguise to keep promoting the GBC guru system. In any case, most devotees think this is what happens when one tries to mix the Hare Krishna religion with -- Illuminati / CIA / chemtrails / Zionist Conspiracy / Skull and Bones society, etc. One goes whacky-doodles. Srila Prabhupada did not want his followers and disciples to study all these crazy conspiracy groups and their writings, and the result of doing that is pretty clear, it makes people go mad.

ys pd

Sunday, September 22, 2013

Conversation about "use of criticism" (09/22/13)

PADA: Criticism started with the GBC's gurus, they said we have to worship Jayatirtha and offer bhogha to him, despite he is taking drugs and having illicit affairs, and they said anyone who disagrees with that pooja system has to leave ISKCON, and so they kicked us all out. They established a policy that we have to worship debauchees, and they criticized Srila Prabhupada's standards for guru. So they criticized the platform of acharya, and they still are saying acharyas fall down. ys pd

A das: Room Conversation—March 16, 1974, Vṛndāvana http://prabhupadabooks.com / AND I THINK MOHANACHANDRAN NAIR M IS RIGHT...TO SUPPORT SOME POINT WE USE THE QUOTES OF PRABHUPADA ACCORDING TO CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES ... IT IS NOT WHIMSICALLY THAT WE SAY THIS OR THAT ... WE WILL AND CAN USE THIS INSTRUCTION OF PRABHUPADAS, HOW CAN WE BE WRONG IF WE APPLY IT WHEN IT WHEN WE HAVE TO, AND WE ARE RIGHT...?

Harikesh: ...position to criticize his Godbrothers, no matter what?
Prabhupāda: You can criticize, if you are right. You cannot criticize wrongly. [break]

PADA: Right, Srila Prabhupada personally told me to only have pure things on the altars or Krishna will not accept the offering, so in 1978 we said that we cannot have the photos of debauchees on Krishna's altars, and so the gang of four gurus kicked us out for saying that. We are repeating Srila Prabhupada, so there is no question that is right. They still have photos of all kinds of conditioned souls on the altars, they have not changed the policy. Policy is made by the acharya, that is his policy, no impure things on the altars, he made that rule.

W das: Constructive criticism derived from FACT finding is derived from Srila Prabhupada himself, on the issue of his God- Brothers deviations. Srila Prabhupada is Right,so he makes a constrictive criticism. He didn't criticized wrongly.

J D: The point should be will it help or hurt someones devotional creeper?.. If a new person hears blasting of gurus and all this before they even get started in the process, or a new devotee.....they may leave all together. There is a way to teach others about the nonsense in ISKCON and GBC etc.

But criticizing others only makes us look bad even if it is true.. It may be done to help someone if it is done truthfully and to protect another person from harm..but at the same time it must be done carefully.. but if it hurts another then it is not good. There has been an overabundance of this name calling and bashing all over the internet and it is not attracting others to the Prabhupadanugas.. it is doing the opposite.

Let Srila Prabhupada do the bashing. We dont need to be news castor's.. We just need to tell the sidhanta.. everyone will learn through the grape vine who did what. But to constantly bring it up in discussions and then blast each other along the way.. Its so distasteful to anyone. But it has become a passtime of so many Prabhupadanugas and a habit and a kind of addiction for some... Let new devotees come ... lets not teach them the wrong way to discuss and talk amongst one another.. Otherwise they may just run away and want to be with the peaceful group who is not actually following the truth of what Srila Prabhupada instructed for ISKCON. In that case we did them a huge disservice.

Its important to know others are hearing and watching and running also.. Better to keep their attention with Srila Prabhupada quotes... the other will be apparent then they can make a wise decision. But if they get no chance to hear in fear of blasphemy then they will remain lost because of someone who think it right to criticize if it is right. Lets not use one verse to back up our criticizing... Srila Prabhupada also said so many things against arguing and criticizing.. So best we consider all involved and who it will harm...Lets all be very very careful how we speak and how we are going to help one another.. Hare Krishna.

A das: Vaishnava is Vaishnava, rascal is rascal..so please Shrila Prabhupada and Radha/Krsna give me the wisdom to always know who is who, namely by their actions...and rascals should not be criticized..but beaten up with facts facts facts - and action of our own good example. Hare Krsna All Glory's to HDG Shrila Prabhuada!

"Similarly, those who are Krsna conscious should also kill - not by weapons but by logic, by reasoning, and by education. If one is a demon, we can use logic...

J Devi: Yes.. we should Give The Sidhanta... Not put our opinion. We can say wordage that attracts instead of detracts.. Instead of using the words like pedophiles and molesters and on and on. we can say those who have abused .. Instead of saying BOGUS GURUS ...

A D: Before anything, we, ourselves must become the perfect example. Perfect example of following Shrila Prabhupadas instructions, this is where strength, empowerment, credibility and wisdom come from.

K Devi: "āpane ācare keha, nā kare pracāra pracāra karena keha, nā karena ācāra"'ācāra', 'pracāra',--nāmera karaha 'dui' kārya tumi--sarva-guru, tumi jagatera ārya.

"Some behave very well but do not preach the cult of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, whereas others preach but do not behave properly."You simultaneously perform both duties in relation to the holy name by your personal behavior and by your preaching. Therefore you are the spiritual master of the entire world, for you are the most advanced devotee in the world."http://prabhupadabooks.com/cc/antya/4/103

PADA: The siddhanta is simple, the guru must be a resident of Krishna loka. The GBC says no, that is bogus because: The guru is often engaged in illicit sex, drugs, criminal activity; Placing molesters in the schools; Kicking out the Prabhupadanugas; Gambling in Reno; Going to the cinema shows; Getting massages from female massage women -- and then having illicit sex with those women (and then advertising using condoms); Shooting machine guns and getting arrested for having a machine gun; Shooting shot guns at beer cans that the guru was also drinking; Shooting guns at occupied buildings and getting arrested; Trying to buy Hugh Hefners Boeing airplane because it has a swimming pool; Buying gold and losing $170,000 when the price went down; Taking advice from the Gaudiya Matha, babajis, psychics, ghost busters, tantrics, financial experts, lawyers; Spending (wasting) $15 millions dollars suing the ritviks while their TOVP building remains a skeleton, etc.

We are not criticizing anyone in particular here, but someone has to say, this is not the standard behavior of Lord Krishna's guru successors, or else it looks like we are compromised with these abominations. We have no choice but to separate ourselves from this program, or else it looks like we are promoting / acquiescing with it. Then there are those who say we and Sulochana should not have gone public with this protest, ok some of the protesters who tried to negotiate with the GBC gurus privately, without public police, media and court back up, are dead. Even Sulochana was taken out despite we both went public together. These bogus guru people are dangerous, hello! ys pd

Saturday, September 21, 2013

RE: The Festival Of Colors (Sampradaya Sun)

http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/09-13/editorials10724.htm

[PADA: Once again, there is criticism of an ISKCON related program, this time the "Holi" festival in Utah. Fine -- except for the fact that -- there appears to be hardly any other "real" programs going on anywhere else, so then what?

The reason people are even discussing the Gaura Vani Kirtaniyas, various New Age Kirtanas that "charge money to attend" (of which we have many such programs here in the Bay Area), the Holi festival, and so on and so forth, is simple really -- there are hardly any other programs to discuss?

Why are we not seeing advertising for the right programs, but mainly criticism of the wrong programs? Where are the bona fide "Lord Chaitanya's samkirtana movement" kirtana programs going on? We simply barely or rarely see these programs going on, as Aindra prabhu was fond of telling us.

To simply stop these Holi type festivals will not help matters that much, or at all, unless there are some more positive alternatives to replace all this with. Where are the bona fide programs going on, except for the most part, on very small scale proportions in very small projects? Thousands of young people attended the last Utah festival, and there was some sorts of chanting going on, so if we stop that, then there will be -- no chanting at all? Not sure why that is the better idea?

In the same way, there are groups of nattering old ladies always gossiping about PADA, because there is nothing else for these people to discuss? They simply do not have a life of their own, or a better program to advertise. Srila Prabhupada says, in the desert the castor bean plant is prominent, because there are no other plants. So the Gaura Vani Kirtaniyas, Holi festivals, and / or PADA (and so forth) become prominent topics because, there is nothing else going on to talk about?

Meanwhile, in Vancouver, where Rocana lives, we have a wonderful standard style Prabhupadanuga kirtana program going on there. Does Rocana advertise for this straight forward kirtana program going on there? Nope. Does he attend? Nope. Does he even recognize this program? Nope. So this seems all like sour grapes, Rocana claims to want to see the standard program, but he does not even support that process in his own back yard. We need to start the real bona fide programs and that will replace the bogus programs, at least that is what Aindra was saying. We think Aindra was correct. ys pd

Isopanisad in Slovakia language

http://www.harekrishnamontreal.com/2013/08/30/receving-milos-translation-for-isopanishad/

Updates from Bangalore Site

Hare Krishna,

Srila Prabhupada-Diksha Guru for all in ISKCON

If only the entire ISKCON world adopts the simple and straight forward July 9th 1977 directive of Srila Prabhupada, and connects every person to him; majority of problems in ISKCON would be automatically solved.

Simple living is the Solution for Spiritual advancement!

There are two things that nullify all good qualities. If one is poverty-stricken, all his good qualities become null and void. Similarly, if one becomes too greedy, his good qualifications are lost.

"It is okay, they do not eat very much"

Atma Tattva: I had a Krishna Book and on the back cover was a picture of Prabhupada looking at a champak flower he was holding. I showed the man this picture and said, “This is our Guru Maharaj, he has translated these books.” The man looked at that picture and then brought some thread and things from a little box and for ten or fifteen minutes measured Prabhupada’s forehead, ears and soon. Then he said, “This person’s features show me that all the four Vaishnava acharyas are present in him.

What is the use of industry and slaughter houses

Jai Srila Prabhupada!

Online Team

ISKCON Times

Bangalore

Friday, September 20, 2013

Shishir Katote / Bhakta das / Mrinmayi etc. "Beer Drinking kulis"

[PADA: This is very odd. Rocana makes a (false flag) post about the ex-gurukulis drinking beer, but they were drinking ginger ale. Then the Bhakti Vikas swami people are quoting from Rocana, who attacks these ex-kulis. Are Rocana and BVKS people working together?

Anyway, no one seems to be able to answer our question, if these children have become confused in the process of Krishna consciousness, who caused that? We say, its people like Rocana and Bhakti Vikas swami who promoted the bogus GBC guru system, which not only confused the children, it made many of them reject the religion wholesale.

They are blaming the victims. Shishir is citing Rocana who is blaming the ex-kulis, instead of blaming Bhakti Vikas swami who supported the whole debauchee / molester guru infrastructure, which messed up these kulis in so many ways, no one can even count the problems the BVKS program caused for these children. They are blaming the victims.]

Shishir Katote R -- 'Qualified Brahmins' from Kirtaniyas group quaffing beer and sporting bikini! Is sacred thread so cheap? Should the sacred thread be taken from them and given back after they give up beer? Is there any such provision in scriptures?

William G Benedict: That varna ashram is what had not yet been established by Prabhupada. It was his desire. These boys and girls are not Prabhupada's own disciples obviously. Who is responsible for them I'm unable to know.

[PADA: Bhakta das says these children are not disciples of Srila Prabhupada. OK, and how did that happen? It happened because people like Bhakta das have been supporting the worship of the GBC's bogus gurus, and thus many of these children were initiated by these bogus gurus. Bhakta das caused these children to "not be disciples" of Srila Prabhupada by supporting the false gurus program.

Then he says, he has no idea who is responsible for that, well he is! And he will be judged for his karma of his turning the ISKCON children away from the worship of Srila Prabhupada as their guru. Bhakta das thinks varnasrama is based on the worship of his illicit sex gurus, no, that is called worship of maya.

And now Bhakta das is promoting Radhanath swami as the biggest guru of the jagat. And the Radhanath program is the same as the Kirtanananda / Bhavananda program, which orchestrated mass abuse of many children. And now the Mukunda / Prahlad das / Paul UK folks finally admit, they too are also promoting Bhakta das so they can get even more children victims to worship Radhanath, to perpetuate their worship of the persons who created the whole child abuse insfrastructure in the first place. Then they say, the children are not happy with the religion, no kidding, they have contaminated the religion with their pedophile pooja process.

Bhakta das / William Benedict says, he has no idea how all this happened. Well all he has to do is to look into a mirror to see who promoted the molester messiahs program, and who still is. Of course there are those who say that some of Bhakta's / Radhanath's / Prahlad's gurus -- poisoned Srila Prabhupada.]

Anantavijaya Das I found this discussion very interesting. I born from an ISKCON devotee parents here in Bali, Indonesia, and I never touch meat, liquor, tea and cofee up till this second. And there are quite a few like me here in Bali, the children of ISKCON devotees. Are we brahmins..? Thank you. It's clearer for me now about what is brahmana and vaishnava..

Mrinmayi Desai: shyama nityanand ji: how can you call yourself dvija bandhu if you have not got a birth in brahmin family? you must take another birth in brahmin family and behave in non brahminical way to become dvija bandhu this title is very expensive. yes you can transcend brahmanas in bhakti and get even more respect in this life. but if you are not born in brahmin family you cant be dvija bandhu.

With all respects, i want to tell you that the goal is not to become brahmana but reach vaikuntha. also, there is a difference between nitya dharma and naimittika dharma. please read jaiva dharma, chapter 6, conversation between cudamani and vaisnava dasa. yesterday itself i showed it to shishir. i dont have a soft copy he may furnish the quote here.

Sameer Katote a person cannot become by spending 50 paise?

[PADA: Bhakta Shushir supports the GBC gurus process, some of whom have been drinking beer?]

Anantavijaya Das Thank you. I understand about the goal. I have read Jaiva Dharma. I just try to understand more about brahmana. Actually I can say that I did all the requirements mentioned by Shyam Nityanand Prabhu.

Mrinmayi Desai I am not against Srila Prabhupada or Srila Bhaktisiddhanta for they supported sacred threads to mlecchas. It can be because when Prabhupada was in USA, he did not have an Indian brahmana who could perform deity worship.

Shashank Katote Brahmanas of kali. I never pay any attention to these "kirtaniyas". They use mahamantra to make money.

[PADA: OK, so the kirtaniyas are disciples of Kali yuga, and bogus, according to folks associated with ISKCON, and they are at the same time always going to ISKCON temples? If they are making money, how much are they really making? They could probably all get jobs and make lots of money. Anyway, they are part of the ISKCON process, at the same time, people associated with ISKCON are attacking them. Is there no loyalty in the ISKCON camp? Why is this group not saying that the GBC acharyas program is bogus for their illicit sex, drugs and so on?]

Daniel Neighbors All of you have been too quick to pass judgement. These are nice devotees doing nice service. They were drinking Ginger beer, NOT alcoholic beer. Please see the photos below. Sampradaya Sun issued an apology for jumping to conclusions as many of you have.

Silly people. BTW, they don't make lots of money doing kirtan as someone suggested. They barely make ends meet.

[PADA: Right, no one makes money unless they are GBC gurus or their paid up lackeys.]

Mrinmayi Desai Mr Daniel, you are funny. You cannot see that beer is a secondary discussion. Primary discussion is bikini show. Do you approve this? Would you be happy if your wife/daughter is enjoying in the swimming pool with the other half naked men by hugging.

[PADA: Good point, the GBC says their gurus are falling into illicit sex with men, women and children, why would you want your children, or even your family cat, to worship such a sabha?]

Nipuna Devi Dasi some of the people pictured are married. to each other. it's not sex frolicking. judge much?

[PADA: Well yes, at least many of the kulis are now married, whereas we often find the GBC's gurus are having illicit sex without being married, good point. So the kirtaniyas have to have a higher standard than the acharyas? This is hypocrisy.]

Mrinmayi Desai A is married to Y, B is married to Z. A and B are men, Y and Z are women. Y is half naked in front of a man who is not her husband and same with Z. Does sastra approve this? Is there a single example in sastras that such thing was allowed.

[PADA: Is it allowed in shastra to say acharyas engage in illicit sex, as the GBC guru system says?]

If this is not offensive then why don't these women go to temple in bikini? After all it is not "sex frolicking", as Mother Nipuna has pointed. She does not find anything wrong with this. Prabhupada asked women to wear sarees and these women are sporting bikinis.

Anantashesh Das Jps: There are many misled brahmans in India too. Look at this picture. Who knows what all activities they engage in besides smoking. I think Ginger beer is much better than gaanjaa

[PADA: Good point, the GBC gurus are also associated with drinking beer, schnops, and smoking ganga, taking percodan, LSD, ecstacy drugs, you name it. Satsvarupa writes "I am being called the guru of pills."]

Mrinmayi Desai Anantashesh - There is no proof that these babajis are officially brahmin initiated by any sampradaya. Can you provide any proof for this? But there is a proof that the pretenders in the pic posted here are officially initiated in ISKCON. Also, according to you, mleccha and yavana vaisnavas are superior to brahmana vaisnavas. Your understanding of sastras in itself is tatterdemalion.

[PADA: OK so why are these pretenders always advertised by ISKCON?]

Anantashesh Das Jps A vaishnavs is a vaishnav.there is no high-low in vaishnav. wen did I say that? you are accusing me of what I hav nt even said!

Also, see this quote by Srla Prabhupada about babajis in Vrindavanadhaama:

There are many babajis. They are collecting ...

[PADA: And the GBC gurus are associated with these babajis ...]

Mrinmayi Desai Funny. You could not prove that these babajis are bonafide brahmanas. And which of my argument has been defeated by you? Just by wearing vaisnava tilaka, does one become vaisnava? Show me the proof if these babajis are really brahmin initiated.

[PADA: The GBC says that people engaged in illicit sex are giving initiations, how is that possible?]

Mrinmayi Desai Note: Brahmin initiated means having become srotriya brahmana after taking birth in brahmin family. Birth in brahmana family is the first birth. Without this first birth one cannot take second birth to become dvija.

[PADA: This is good.]

Shishir Katote R Whatever. but we must agree that they did not have alcohol. you may talk against bikini show. but it does not prove that it is alcohol. lets be honest. anantashesha prabhu, show me a single pic where indian brahmana couple is going half naked with other couples. the pics you have shown does not prove anything. because these babajis are not brahmanas.

[PADA: Show us one example of gurus in the parampara engaged in illicit sex and / or drinking beer, like BVKS gurus are found doing?]

Daniel Neighbors Not that I necessarily have a problem with your doing so Mrinmayi, but in "Vedic Culture" women didn't argue with and debate with men they don't know. Assuming of course that you are who you represent yourself to be in your profile.

[PADA: OH oh, here we go again, women cannot speak up in a debate, they have to sit around and let foolish men do things like -- make molesters into acharyas? Why can't women speak up when something is wrong? This is not helping Daniel prabhu. We need to encourage women to know the shastra and to preach strongly when shastra is being violated. We are not saying the women here are speaking the right thing, but the principle that women should be allowed to speak is important.]

Mrinmayi Desai How can you decide Daniel that I am arguing? Argument is not allowed to both, men and women. Where it is stated that only women cannot argue? You call everybody silly when they are supporting what is true. Seems that you are also shared a part of money. ...

Angela Johnson lol Mrinmayi, in your profile there is a pic where you have argued with people without any reason. Many elder people have been offended by you. Mr Padmanabha Desai, who seems to be your relative, is declaring you have lost a blood relation with him.

Mrinmayi Desai You don't know what was the argument about. Do you know what is the meaning of sudra? Let me make it clear to people here. The topic is can sudra perform bhakti. As usual, my relatives were against it. Rest you know.

Angela Johnson You are free to speak whatever you want. I trust my world with the lord. HE knows what is right. Animals CAN be eaten by the superior creatures. It is the law of nature. You don't trust that. I cant help it.

Vijaya Gopikesa Das Stop blaspheming Mrinmayi. And reply to her arguments. Its vaisnava aparadha to speak against her. She is initiated in madhva sampradaya which is authentic sampradaya. Its due to her I got entry into Raghavendra Swami mutt when they allow only brahmanas to enter.

Mathias Sabji Mrinmayi Desai ........mamamia mamamia!! You are a very heavy demon! Nothing more! No soft heart, no merciful , no humble, no women more a heavy pit bull male dog, no real transcendental knowledge about VEDIC SASTRA ( only hindu caste brahmana blah blah).

SB 4.8.54 Purport:

Those who are not actually in the line of acaryas, or who personally have no knowledge of how to act in the role of acarya, unnecessarily criticize the activities of the ISKCON movement in countries outside of India.

Your post with brahmana , ksatryia , Vaishiya and sudra spiritual masters is irrelevant mataji ! Because every body can become a brahmana in kali yuga, especially by pancaratriki vidhi initiation !!! Brahmana means by gunas , by qualities , not by birth. Stop your indian nationalism caste brahmana foolosophy. All indian are same sudras in general like all westerns in kali yuga. It is vedic sastra knowledge! But it is right that to take birth in india is a better chance to become a Vaisnava. Yes. But in same time you must understand that the indian or better vedic culture was brought to india from central asia!

[PADA: India today is the place where most of the GBC's gurus are always hanging out and making many disciples. These bogus gurus rarely even appear in the West. There is a problem in India with people understanding the siddhanta, that acharyas are not debauchees. The GBC says all the time that acharyas fall into illicit behavior, and the mass of people in India are not challenging that. Anyway, there is a problem with the kirtaniyas, they are good for making advertising for ISKCON, then they are shot down and criticized at the drop of a hat in the ISKCON circles. Is this not exploiting them, as was the problem some of them had when they were five years old? ys pd]

Thursday, September 19, 2013

Another Soul Is Liberated from GBC gurus!

Rishikesh: The majority of ISKCON temples today is a bunch of blind followers following a bunch of FAKE "GURUS". Today ISKCON is no better than any other so called "spiritual organization" in INDIA where you can find controversy, murder, child molesters, rapists, womanizers, money making schemes, etc etc...

[PADA: Oh Oh, another PADA reader?]

Surprise! Surprise! the people who take part in the perverted activities mentioned above are mostly the FAKE "GURUS". These BLIND FOLLOWERS and FAKE "GURUS" have destroyed the PERFECT ISKCON created by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada (Srila Prabhupada).

I request the general public to avoid buying their books or anything from from their temple premises. I also request everyone to read the HISTORY of ISKCON before and after the departure of Srila Prabhupada and make their own judgement.

*************************************************************
If you do want to make spiritual progress then please read the ORIGINAL,UNEDITED books of Srila Prabhupada.
*************************************************************

[PADA: Yep, read their history, and you will figure the whole thing out. Madhvacharya says, anyone who understands history is eligible for liberation. Next, what is the solution, read the unedited books! Bravo! ys pd]

Sridhara Maharaja program in Santa Cruz California

http://www.sevaashram.net/2845/srila-janardan-maharaj/

PADA: Apparently, the current appointed successor to their mission is Janardana Mahajaraja. He is supposed to be a former ISKCON devotee who left and went over to Sridhara Maharaja. If anyone has more details about him and his program we'd like to know what his status is. Apparently, Tripurari swami has started his own branch separated from Janardan Maharaja, citing that the other successors are not experienced preachers like he is.

Its amazing to us that after Sridhara Maharaja started the false and illicit sex gurus program in India after 1936, and later after 1977 he helped the eleven ISKCON GBC's create their bogus policies of: zonal gurus, appointed gurus, guru voting systems, policy of falling down among the acharyas, and so on and so forth, that he is still considered as a big authority.

Sridhara Maharaja kept saying that "Swami Maharaja" had appointed eleven gurus, but there is no evidence that even happened? Sridhara Maharaja never apparently even asked to see the evidence, nor does he know that gurus are not appointed, nor does he even know that when people are falling down, they are not gurus? Which is why Srila Prabhupada says his advice can be very harmful to ISKCON.

We cannot help but notice that there are not other centers being built except for this one place in Soquel. Sudhir Krishna is apparently also staying there along with a group of ex-ISKCON folks. We are however indebted to Sudhir Krishna for giving us a pile of transcripts of the GBC talking to Sridhara Maharaja in the late 1970s where he said things like "none should protest" the bogus 11 gurus, that gurus sometimes "go mad" after money, women and followers, that the spirit souls are from the brahmajyoti, and so many other talks with Sridhara Maharaja which reveal how he was a big supporter of the false gurus of ISKCON and various apa-siddhanta.

We never get any answer either from the Danavir and Bhakti Vikas maharaja groups as to why they supported everyone accepting Sridhara Maharaja as the "shiksha guru" authority of ISKCON in 1978? Why did these people not stop the nonsense when Sridhara Maharaja helped the GBC write their position paper "The Mahajanas Have Difficulties" in 1980, a paper that attacks the Mahajanas? Why didn't anyone raise the alarm when Sridhara Maharaja said we originate in brahman, which is actually mayavada siddhanta? And now these SM people are putting Lord Siva deities in some of their temples and etc.

Anyway, if anyone knows more about these folks and has some incidents of their current preaching, for example -- if they have ever explained why they supported the bogus 11 etc. we'd like to know. And if their current acharya is a former ISKCON member, are they not making neophytes into acharyas -- again, after they fumbled that issue ever since 1936? ys pd

References:

The bogus guru appointment: http://youtu.be/D_ogsiUTOa8

Sridhar Maharaja in 1972: http://youtu.be/YqCFMHLisBI

Sridhara Maharaja and the 11 GBC gurus: http://youtu.be/oFjove-LKKE

Rocana's False Gurukuli's Beer Bust

PADA UPDATE: Thanks prabhu, yes our Prabhupadanuga program in Vancouver has a wonderful kirtana, and Rocana boycotts us. He says he is not in favor of the ISKCON kirtana styles, but then he does not promote anything except the ISKCON guru program. ys pd]

PADA: Rocana das recently claimed that the Bhakti fest "Gaura Vani band" ex-gurukulis were partying and drinking beer -- and he had proof, look at the labels on the bottles. OK these bottles turned out to be ginger ale. And so now Rocana has once again alienated a group of people by attacking them without warrant. At the same time there have been stories, however some years ago, of wild ex-gurukuli's "parties." Yet that was some time ago, many of them are now grown up adults and most of them are actually married, and many now have their own children nowadays and so on.

So all Rocana did was upset these people for no good reason, and make it appear that the senior devotees sector are enemies of these ex-children. At the same time, there is another group of critics of this group, who say that these kulis are bogus for "not singing the right tunes," "not dressing appropriately," and so on and so forth. PADA's view is -- that its a miracle any of these ex-kids are even chanting in public at all, considering all their generation went through. We are glad they even believe in Krishna, and want to sing the name of Krishna in public, at all, at this stage.

Gaura Vani band means of course the speaking of Lord Gauranga. Are their parents out there with a band singing anything, anywhere? Where is Rocana's public band? Where is the public band of the "they are singing bad tunes" crew? Lets face they have nothing going on, at least these ex-kids have something. This is another problem, if someone is doing something, then the people who are doing nothing, ok like Bhakta das, will criticize us. Actually he is doing a little bit of something, he is promoting the GBC's guru program and he has found a fresh group of disciples to promote him and that agenda.

So we try to be nice to the ex-kulis in general, considering them as childhood victims of a child negligent, if not dysfunctional, if not violent cult. Its simply not helpful to blame the victims. This was the same problem that critics have had with the child molesting lawsuit. "Well these children are saying horrible things about Krishna, ISKCON and Srila Prabhupada." OK agreed, that's true, but if your own children are saying horrible things about your own religion, how are they to blame?
How come many of these children ended up hating the Krishna religion, whereas our own children ended up being favorable to Krishna? That means something went wrong in the victim's upbringing which caused them to reject the religion.

That means the people in charge of these children, aka the adults, created conditions where these children ended up having these attitudes. And worse, when the lawsuit came up, the Sanat / Prahlad folks publicly suggested that these children simply needed to be chopped up for being so offensive. OK, that's really going to help fix things? No, they simply alienated the victims even more and more, and convinced them there is an anti-child policy. At the same time we are glad they wrote that, it proved our point in spades, there is an anti-child policy going on here. Now we had written proof.

Then again we have ex-kulis like Aniruddha who was arrested recently, he has really had a messed up life, there is no question about it. So when the children as a group have a number of homeless and dysfunctional victims, have been having excessive parties, are having suicidal thoughts, have been going to psychologists and ordered to take psychotropic medications, have been getting arrested, and so on, who is to blame for that, if not collectively, the leaders of ISKCON and the acquiescing adults?

What is interesting is that 1,000 ex-children signed up for the molesting case, and we have never seen 1,000 of them unite on anything else ever since. That means they all agreed on one thing at least, the leaders, the adults, the acquiescing parents, all of them had let down their entire generation and had put them into a very abusive condition that was even causing suicides. So they all agreed on one point, all of the adults in ISKCON collectively failed them. There is a group of people who say that PADA should not have interfered in the suicides problem, of course those same people later on would have criticized that we allowed the suicides and did nothing?

Why does Srila Prabhupada say -- you cannot please the demoniac?

To his credit Rocana helped the case because he did recognize that suicides was not at all a good development for these ex-children, and that these suicides would eventually give the society an un-favorable image as a Jim Jones suicide cult in the public media.

Oddly, the Prahlad group said at the time that is exactly what they wanted, they said they wanted the newspapers in America to advertise "a blood bath in Dallas." So there is a section of former ISKCON / GBC / Satsvarupa groupies who really wanted these children to die more and more, and for that story to be in the media, and they still do, they still defend their idea of having dead children and for that story to be a media story. The ex-children of course know about all this child hating sector within their society, and no wonder they are alienated.

So there is a section of people who resisted the lawsuit, saying its better for them to die, and this has happened also in the Catholic church where leaders, and elders, advise the victims to be silent, and this results in dysfunction and suicides. Then again all we have to do is look at Satsvarupa's art to figure out why some of his ex-followers are so haywire and anti-humanity.

In any case, we think all of the ex-children of ISKCON should be given a special break, especially if they are even interested in the religion, at all. We also got many thanks from a number of them for helping them with the lawsuit, they said, "Apart from PADA, no one wrote about our plight or even cares about us -- at all. Most people wish us ill."

So this is the first problem, if we want to attract them back to Krishna, we have to show some signs of concern for them, and appreciation for all they went through in the GBC's guru wars, of which they are the worst case examples of victims of this war. If someone in the family was abused and feels alienated, actually the other family members have to work all the harder to show concern for them. Or they may never come back, ever. Who would blame them? ys pd

Wednesday, September 18, 2013

The Cheaters and the Cheated (a conversation)

Prabhupadanuga: Bhakti Vikash Swami attacking Radhanath Swami

(on prabhupadanugas.blogspot.com) This Radhanath Swami is sketchy. That much is certain. I too was turned off by his book, especially when I saw it within the Hare Krishna Temple in Salt Lake City, UT.

GV: A simple saint is a simple saint and a clown is a clown. Radhanath's father once said: I cannot possible fathom why they worship my son like they do. Well done Bhakti Vikash Maharaj ... for me, it was enough just to hear him sing ... its awful artificial blended, just an unacceptable alteration of a natural voice.

W das: Sharks of a feather.

GV: They could not bluff us, at least.

M dasa: Radhanath's father once said : I cannot possible fathom why they worship my son like they do .! ha ha ha ha nice statement of the father of Radhanath. Answer: Because people want to be cheated!

CV: In this regard I cant fully accept this, otherwise true logic, that modern young educated humans want to be cheated - I assume that most are serious candidates (at least at the start). The whole structure of - my savior is an imperfect - perfect - guru seems to be a kind of automatized (mindless) mode. Its a contradiction, he is imperfect, so that means he is perfect. This is manipulating a society and its structures is an open forum, everyone could get out at any moment if they have enough insight into these maneuvers - THESE DEMONS PLAY AN OPEN THEATRE and innocents get plugged in because they still miss the MAIN POINT more or less:

Radhanath's father speaks: http://youtu.be/EbdW8s_yWts

W das: Our position in every subject is that we can relate and ratify with Srila Prabhupada's teachings. Straight forward statements are made in Srila Prabhupada's books. For example, we do not accept the authority of any Gaudya-Math persons.

CV das: Perhaps THE ORIGINAL most cruel egoistic DEMON IS KEITH HAM - ALL others are peanuts, just like Radhanath swami - he is a mere slave since ... there exists a secret recording of a 15 min meeting of the main super guru crew -- I saw it -- Kirtanananda / Keith Ham brainwashed all the others to become his sheeple within a few short heavy handed monologues, full of asuric attitude, that's all it took (and the other GBC gurus surrendered to Kirtanananda) ... and from there on, all that followed was just a natural consequence, just slowly building up the vikarma and its effects.

W das: True.

CV das: Srila PRABHUPADA WAS 35 years ahead of us - he already knew 1967 that saving his movement will be a hard task. He wanted to see the Keith Hamster in Bellevue (New York's greatest nuthouse) again... but snakes are sneaky ... even the most expert snake charmers know that now and then a snake escapes.

W das: Srila Prabhupada gave Kirtanananda some power to keep his ego under control, while he was always warning us about him. One of the problems we had was that some sentimental and die hard followers of Ham's were too quick to completely forgive and forget and then -- to eventually fall under his poisonous and evil Mind. Ultimately, those foolish followers of his became part of the whole madness that swept over the GBC.

PD: The book "Monkey On A Stick" says "murder, madness and the Hare Krishnas." Everyone else knew that New Vrndavana was a mad house, except the residents there and of course the other GBC leaders. The GBC leaders went there during their "reform" and they were singing "Jaya Bhaktipada," this was filmed by a CBS news crew. So yes, Kirtanananda would bark at them, and they would all stand back in fear, they became his slaves, and Radhanath was one of them.

M das: The statement that most people want to be cheated is not my speculation..........

Srila Prabhupada: Yes. Of course, to search out a guru is very nice, but if you want a cheap guru, or if you want to be cheated, then you will find many cheating gurus. But if you are sincere, you will find a sincere guru. Because people want everything very cheaply, they are cheated (......)

The point is that people want to be cheated, and therefore cheaters come.

Reporter: I wondered how many people you think might have been taken in by fake gurus.

Srila Prabhupada: Practically everyone. [Laughter.] There is no question of counting. Everyone.

Reporter: This would mean thousands of people, wouldn't it?

Srila Prabhupada: Millions. Millions have been cheated, because they want to be cheated. God is omniscient. He can understand your desires. He is within your heart, and if you want to be cheated, God sends you a cheater.

Reporter: ls it possible for everyone to attain the perfectional stage you spoke of previously?

Srila Prabhupada: Within a second. Anyone can attain perfection within a second--providing he is willing. The difficulty is that no one is willing.
(Excerpt of an Prabhupada interview with the London Times)

CV das: I know the cheater and cheated analogy well ... I give all aspiring devotees the benefit of the doubt - i cant see any un-seriousness in someone who stands before Prabhupada's house, if they are serious. Someone in maya could be a very serious devotee, too - Srila Prabhupada is pointing out the unwillingness of the general uneducated baddhas and the impersonalistic seekers / sahajias, who are not aiming at spiritual perfection and who that guess attaining the Surpreme is a material process, or a buisness as usual cheap trip.

Even though some of these GBC guru culprits ruined most of Prabhupadas heritage up until now, many of them still keep up by posing as a big gurus, and "the real" followers of HIS Divine grace - that could mean that they are in plain old maya, they just cannot see the problems they have created for everyone else.

They may be materially talented, yet heart-weak victims of wealth, women, followers, might and power, without much impetus or strength to transform themselves to the spiritual process smoothly - I guess the real active and most influential of them are purposefully manipulating demons, at the original core, were maybe less then 5. They are cheaters for sure, and those who stick to them are cheated, even though the followers should try to get sufficient jnana to discriminate like a madhyam devotee does.

I never thought of Harikesh, then a big Swami, as a big cheater, nor did I feel particularly cheated - I just always felt that he was not an ideal guru - acarya. At times he confessed his weakness and inability himself, but then he was almost always brutally forced to keep up the show by the other GBC leaders.

A number of times Harikesh tried to approach the other GBC gurus and tell them he was falling away and no longer wanted to keep up the show of acting as a guru, but they would pressure him to stay in the guru seat, and so things just got worse for him and for ISKCON. So the other gurus will not only attack us, they will also attack any person in their own group, when he does not want to keep the guru show bottle going.

They were very brutal towards Harikesh when he wanted to step away, and that is why he ended up having so many problems. And ISKCON suffered badly as a result of their keeping up this cheating program, knowing full well that Harikesha did not want to go on with the show. Anyone who tries to be honest will be beaten on with shoes, whether its us or even one of their own circle.

Ordinary people are cheated - but a vaishnava who is really sincere is never seriously cheated, with Krishna dwelling in their heart. This is called the fullfillment of inner desire, an arrangement of the Lord responding to your call for service to Sri Hara (or other devos of the lord ) and Himself, Sri Hari. If you want to be cheated, you will be.

Departure of Haridas Thakura celebrated today

Haridas Thakura (video) http://youtu.be/L0ESHsgF9iU

Life of Haridas Thakura: http://youtu.be/YMTky12q1X4

Books : Sri Caitanya-caritamrta - 1975 Edition : Cc. Madhya-lila : Madhya 7: The Lord's Tour of

South India : Madhya 7.37 : PURPORT :

From this verse it is clear that Caitanya Mahāprabhu was chanting the holy names a fixed number of times daily. The Gosvāmīs used to follow in the footsteps of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and Haridāsa Ṭhākura also followed this principle. Concerning the Gosvāmīs-Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī, Śrīla Sanātana Gosvāmī, Śrīla Raghunātha Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī, Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī, Śrīla Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī and Śrīla Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī-Śrīnivāsa Ācārya confirms: saṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ. (Ṣaḍ-gosvāmy-aṣṭaka 6) In addition to other duties, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu introduced the system of chanting the holy name of the Lord a fixed number of times daily, as confirmed in this verse (tomāra dui hasta baddha nāma-gaṇane). Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to count on His fingers. While one hand was engaged in chanting, the other hand kept the number of rounds. This is corroborated in the Caitanya-candrāmṛta and also in Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī's Stava-mālā:

badhnan prema-bhara-prakampita-karo granthīn kaṭī-dorakaiḥ
saṅkhyātuṁ nija-loka-maṅgala-hare-kṛṣṇeti nāmnāṁ japan
(Caitanya-candrāmṛta 16)

hare kṛṣṇety uccaiḥ sphurita-rasano nāma-gaṇanā-
kṛta-granthi-śreṇī-subhaga-kaṭi-sūtrojjvala-karaḥ
(Prathama-Caitanyāṣṭaka 5)

Therefore devotees in the line of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu must chant at least sixteen rounds daily, and this is the number prescribed by the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. Haridāsa Ṭhākura daily chanted 300,000 names. Sixteen rounds is about 28,000 names. There is no need to imitate Haridāsa Ṭhākura or the other Gosvāmīs, but chanting the holy name a fixed number of times daily is essential for every devotee.

Books : Sri Caitanya-caritamrta - 1975 Edition : Cc. Madhya-lila : Madhya 11: The Beda-kirtana Pastimes of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu : Madhya 11.165 : PURPORT :

Although Haridāsa Ṭhākura was such a highly exalted Vaiṣṇava that he was addressed as Haridāsa Gosvāmī, he still did not like to disturb the common sense of the general populace.

HaridāsaṬhākura was so exalted that he was addressed as ṭhākura and gosāñi, and these titles are offered to the most advanced Vaiṣṇavas. The spiritual master is generally called gosāñi, andṭhākura is used to address the paramahaṁsas, those in the topmost rank of spirituality.Nonetheless, Haridāsa Ṭhākura did not want to go near the temple, although he was called there by Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu Himself. The Jagannātha temple still accepts only those Hindus who are in the varṇāśrama order. Other castes, especially those who are not Hindu, are not allowed to enter the temple. This is a long-standing regulation, and thus Haridāsa Ṭhākura, although certainly competent and qualified to enter the temple, did not want even to go near it. This is called Vaiṣṇava humility

Books : Sri Caitanya-caritamrta - 1975 Edition : Cc. Madhya-lila : Madhya 11: The Beda-kirtana Pastimes of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu : Madhya 11.176 : PURPORT :

This statement of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is significant. Nibhṛte vasiyā tāhāṅ kariba smaraṇa:"I shall sit down there in that solitary place and remember the lotus feet of the Lord." Neophyte students are not to imitate sitting in a solitary place and remembering the lotus feet of the Lord by chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. We should always remember that it was Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu Himself who wanted such a place, either for Himself or Haridāsa Ṭhākura. No one can suddenly attain the level of Haridāsa Ṭhākura and sit down in a solitary place to chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra and remember the lotus feet of the Lord. Only an exalted person like Haridāsa Ṭhākura or Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, who is personally exhibiting the proper behavior for an ācārya, can engage in such a practice.

Tuesday, September 17, 2013

Bhakti vikas swami apologizes to Kirtanananda's Samadhi leaders?

[PADA: Radhanath swami has buried his pal Kirtanananda (criminal, homosexual etc.) in the holy dham. Instead of protesting burying such deviants in the holy dham of Krishna, Bhakti Vikas swami is instead apologizing for even questioning the leaders of such programs?

Umm, now we know why so many deviations are going on?

Instead of correcting such deviations, they are apologizing for even asking about these deviations? Was not Radhanath the main hand maiden of Kirtanananda, when New Vrndavana was awash in criminal deviations, including orchestrated murders? OK, and one of those murders was -- that of Sulochana das? And according to the police, we were next on their hit list, and the police caught them doing surveillance on our pick-up truck? And we were also being chased by the baseball bats folks, and had to be rescued by the police. And this is the program we need to apologize for and support?

Why won't people like BVKS stand up for justice? Does he think that acquiescing with the leaders of criminal-ized programs and deviations -- like burying dead criminals and molesters in a samadhi, right on Krishna's doorstep, is helping ISKCON? Well, its not!

Forsooth! Seriously folks, one only wonders what kind of amazingly terrible karma awaits these people who bury dead criminals and molesters right on top of Krishna's holy land, and what will happen to their apologists and cheer leaders like BVKS. Of course Bhakta das and his followers are crying like babies that we are opposed to their joining with Radhanath's program of burying their dead criminal messiahs in the holy land as well.

A chorus of jackals? Which is why we wonder, why is BVKS joining that chorus? Then all kinds of people always ask us, why is everyone so much asleep in ISKCON, that they allow all this to go on, year after year after year? Burying a person whose regime has been connected to maybe every type of crime ever seen in ISKCON, is a messiah? How is all this going on all the time without any correction? That is what people ask us EVERY DAY. The answer is, they are not asleep, they are compromised, which is how all these crimes happened in the first place. ys pd]

==============================

By Bhakti Vikasa Swami

Dear devotees,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Some recent lectures in which I expressed concern about ISKCON have caused considerable concern within ISKCON. Several devotees have stated that they empathize with many of my points, but not with the manner of presentation and the fact that not all my statements were entirely accurate.

This has caused distress to many devotees, for which I must apologize. I particularly apologize to HH Radhanath Maharaja and his followers. I request them and the whole Vaisnava community to forgive my offenses.

I would also like to make the following points about HH Radhanath Maharaja.
1. He is known for his humble disposition in personal dealings.
2. He lives simply; for instance, he sleeps on a mat on the floor, and eschews luxurious accommodation.
3. He is an excellent story teller of both Krishna and Chaitanya lilas.
4. He has an exemplary history of brahmacharya.
5. He has inspired an unprecedentedly large congregation.
Regarding my concerns: I request the Vaisnavas to not, on account of my crudeness, discount them. Some GBC men have told me that they would like to see certain of my concerns addressed, but in a manner that will not cause unnecessary disturbance.

vancha-kalpa-tarubhyas ca krpa-sindhubhya eva ca patitanam pavanebhyo vaisnavebhyo namo namah

Your servant,
Bhakti Vikasa Swami
P. S. If anyone would like to discuss these matters, please contact me at: BVikasa.swami@pamho.net

Regarding Jayatirtha's Murder by Ameyatma das

Regarding Jayatirtha's murder.

The way I heard it was that previously JT had married the man who killed him to another of his disicples. But, at some point JT decided to have an affair with the girl. He told the man that the girl was one of his consorts. After some time she became pregnant and JT was then 'done with her'. He sent her back to the man and told him that it was now his duty to raise JT's child. JT was so messed up he thought it was the greatest blessings he could give them, his own child ... I was told that the young man couldn't take it and that's what led him to behead JT.

I don't recall who told me this, was long time ago, I was living in Detroit at the time, JT's zone.

Prior to this, on JT's last trip to Detroit an incident occurred. First, for perspective, JT was Temple President in LA when I joined. I really liked him. I tell devotees, in a genuine loving way, that he was a very wonder devotee, but, he lost his head over LSD. He was always nice to me. And his wive Manjuwali - they were very devoted at that time, 1973-74.

Anyway, prior to his last visit to Det a devotee, Brajendralal, got a phone call from a devotee friend in England who informed him that JT was taking LSD and was having affair with a mataji - Sucarya. Brajendralal reported this to Naveen Krsna who was the zonal GBC secretary in Detroit. This was a major fall down. When JT arrived some days later Naveen confronted him on it. A meeting was called for all of SP's disciples, to met with JT - The meeting was held in SP's room - Maybe you were there Pratyatosh? If you were, I am sure you'll remember what took place.

SP's murti is there in the room, and the question was put to JT - was he taking LSD? Was he engaged in illicit affair? Jayatirtha went before SP's murti, and before him he said, "I swear to you and before my spiritual master, on Srila Prabhupad's name, I swear to you this is not true. These are horrible lies meant as an attack on me and the GBC and Gurus of ISKCON".

He seemed so damn sincere. He swore to us on Prabhupad's name, before SP's murti that all of this was a vicious lie. Then he turned on Brajendralal, who was a sweet non-political devotee, he has passed away now, his wife is now TP of Alachua, ah - her name is on the tip of my tongue, starts with an M ahh, anyway... (really it's not old age, I've always been horrible with ah, ah, what do you call it, ah, oh names, yeah, names... now what was i saying... oh yeah, its' not old age... ) anyway, he turned on Brajendralal and said, "Why are you spreading such vicious lies about me? How could you do this?"

And we all turned and looked at Brajendralal and thought, 'yeah, how could you do this to poor innocent JT?" Brajendralal was banned from coming to the temple - but it only lasted a month or 2, because eventually JT got caught and the whole GBC found out the rumors were true. Braj was apologized to.

Why did JT go to Sridhar? First, most of the GBC had been meeting regularly with Sridhar since SP left. They went to him for formal GBC managerial advice, and personal advice and association. When JT was found having broken the principles the GBC tried to rectify him, but he was too far gone. He didn't listen to them. So, they asked him to seek Sridhar's help. The GBC sent him to Sridhar.

[PADA: That is correct, the GBC was working with -- and heavily promoting -- Sridhara Maharaja as "the shiksha guru of ISKCON" at that time. Now they are saying anyone who goes to the Gaudiya Matha is a rascal -- if not an anti-ISKCON demon.

That would mean in reality, the GBC's gurus are at the top of their own list of such demons, since they are the ones who started the whole mass exodus to drive off huge sectors of ISKCON over to the Gaudiya Matha. Yes, they sent Jayatirtha there, they also sent Sudhir Krishna there, in fact they said that Sridhara Maharaja is the "higher authority" of the entire ISKCON society in 1978, so really -- they sent the whole of the ISKCON society over there. Danavir now writes that we should not accept outside authorities, except that has been his whole program from day one, taking ISKCON off to other authorities like Sridhara Maharaja.

ISKCON has subsequently lost thousands of people due to their program of siphoning off ISKCON devotees over to the Gaudiya Matha. Now they are saying they never had such a policy, well they did, they were ordering people to go to Sridhara Maharaja, and later they were telling people to take shelter of people like Narayana Maharaja, BV Puri mj, BP Puri mj, Fakir Mohan and the babajis of Vrndavana etc. ad infinitum. In other words the GBC's gurus have spawned ISKCON's competition and they are the ones who keep leading the society into these various opposing camps.]

AD: I've did some background study on this for a presentation i will be making soon. The GBC had been meeting with Sridhar regularly, but, they were keeping it secret. Only the GBC and a few sannyasis were to know about it. Why? Why keep it secret from the rank and file members that they were meeting with Sridhar? I'll get to that in a second. First of all, WHY were they meeting with him and taking his advice in the first place?

According to Tamal, a few days before SP's departure he told Tamal that after he departs that the GBC can consult Narayan M on how to perform the Samadhi and last rites, as SP knew his disciples wouldn't know, and he knew that Narayan M had experience and knew how to handle this. SP suggested Narayan because he said Narayan was near by, having an ashram in Mathura. Tamal supposedly asked if there was any one else they could consult with, and SP said of his Godbrother's Srdhar was the most knowledgeable, philosophically, that if the GBC had some questions on the philosophy they could seek Sridhar's advice.

[PADA: Srila Prabhupada had just said Sridhara Maharaja is the leader of the severe offenders Bagh Bazaar (Ananta Vasudeva) party in 1977. Why would he then appoint Sridhara Maharaja as the shiksha advisor?]

AD: The reason they went to Sridhar concerning the guru issue was simple. The GBC were convinced that SP wanted the 11 Rtvik - Representatives to become regular gurus when he left. But, after SP left they found themselves totally in the dark on how to set up such a multi guru zonal acharyas system. SP had Not given them ONE Single instruction - ZERO - Nothing, on how to set up such a system. Were the gurus to have their own Vyasasans? Should they remove Srila Prabhupad's paintings and murtis and sit in his seat? Should all the temples have all the photos of all the gurus on their altars all the time, or only a photo of the local or visiting gurus? Are Gurus to be Authorities over the GBC, or was the GBC still to have authority over the Gurus?

[PADA: Yes, to say that managers will oversee the acharyas -- has always been a foolish proposal from the start. Their idea is something like how the College of Cardinals establishes and monitors the Pope. This is the same problem the GBC gurus are still having today. They say ISKCON is ruled by the GBC, except when their gurus deviate, then the deviating guru simply says -- hey I am a guru, no one can challenge the guru.

So they are simply spawning a pack of maverick gurus who answer to no one. When Jayatirtha left, he simply said, I am the guru, the GBC is challenging the guru, so that means they are violating guru etiquette, no one is allowed to challenge the guru. And Sridhara Maharaja said the same thing, since the guru has absolute authority "none can protest."]

AD: Jayapataka asked, how can a Non-Guru GBC member give instructions to a Guru-GBC member? The point was that since [which he actually did NOT] SP appointed those men to be Acarya, then obviously SP considered those 11 men to be MORE Advanced then the rest of the non-guru GBC.

So, how can a less advanced devotee give instructions to the most advanced devotees? They found that they had a million questions, and SP had given them one single instruction, not a word or a vague hint How in the hell was the whole damn things supposed to be set up and how was it to work? The GBC found themselves totally in the dark.

During a meeting when none of the gurus or GBC could agree on how to even take step one, how to proceed, Tamal mentioned that they can seek Sridhar's advice. So, from that day on for years the GBC secretly began holding meetings with Sridhar seeking his advice, starting with how to set up this Multi-Guru system.

But, why keep it secret from the rank and file members that they were meeting with Sridhar?

The reason was, and this I found on a Caitanya Sarasvati Math website, they have transcripts and mpg3 recordings - Bhatka Caru in 1983 or so explained the situation to Sridhar - he told Sridhar why the GBC had turned on him - which i'll get to shortly.

But, what Bhaka Charu told him was that the GBC claims that SP had appointed the 11 to be Acaryas after he departed. So, they were to be the new Gurus of ISKCON. The new Acaryas. The new Masters and Guides of the movement. How would it look if everyone were to find out that the new ISKCON gurus were going to a more senior Vaishnav for their own Guidance? Why would a new ISKCON devotee agree to accept one of them as their Guru and Master, if the new member finds out that the ISKCON gurus are themselves taking guidance from a more senior Guru?

The fear was that the new members would abandon ISKCON and all go to Sridhar. He was the new Guide of the new Gurus. Why settle with the lessor new gurus, better to take direct shelter of the senior guru. The fear was that if everyone found out that the GBC were going to Sridhar, it could lead to a major conflict, which could lead to the total collapse of ISKCON.

But, when did they turn on Sridhar and why?

That was because of Jayatirtha.... well, sort of. JT wasn't taking the GBC's help, so they sent him to Sridhar. JT was now back living with his wife, Manjuwali and went to see Sridhar with his wife. Sridhar preached to him, and genuinely helped him. He convinced him that his fall down caused SP a great pain, and that he must become strong again and reconfirm his faith in SP. Soon, Jayatirtha regained his senses, and re-renounced taking intoxications and illicit sex. Sridhar also convinced him that since he had already taken sannyas and was in the position of a Guru, he must re-affirm his Sannyas vows.

Jayatirtha agreed, and was well on the road to reforming himself. He came back and the GBC again reinstated his guru position - but, then JT did the unthinkable. He broke the code of silence regarding Sridhar. Jayatirtha felt totally indebted to Sridhar for helping save his spiritual life and regain his faith in Srila Prabhupad. Out of appreciation for this, Jayatirtha informed his disciples that it was Sridhar who had helped him regain his senses. He then asked his disciples to also place Srihdar's photo next to his and also offer Sridhar respects, for having saved JT.

The GBC was totally bent. What was JT doing? No one was supposed to know about Sridhar. Especially the Grand Disciples and new members. So, they told JT to STOP this IMMEDIATELY. To tell his disciples to Take Sridhar's photos Off the altars, and STOP telling everyone that the GBC was taking guidance from Sridhar. Jayatirtha REFUSED.

Some time went on and the GBC was fuming over this. At the 1982 GBC meetings they gave JT a final last ultimatum. The GBC considered this SERIOUS. It could threaten the whole future of ISKCON - if new members learned that the gurus were all taking guidance from Sridhar, all the new devotees would leave ISKCON and accept Sridhar as their guru.

So, they GBC felt that had to take drastic measures to STOP JT. They gave him the ultimatum, they told him he must REMOVE Sridhar from his heart. And tell his disciples to remove his photos from the altars. If JT again refused, then the GBC would enact their most severe punishment, they would EXPEL JT from ISKCON. The GBC members took a gamble. They thought for sure JT would do anything to keep from being Expelled. They thought this would surely force him to comply. Instead, JT stood up, and told the GBC what they were asking him to do was offensive, He could never remove Sridhar from his heart. He walked out the door and walked out of the Mayapur Candrodaya property straight to Sridhar's ashram.

Not only did the GBC scramble to try and reach his disciples first to convince them to stay... . but, they felt that now that the cat was out of bag, so to speak, that a lot of devotees were hearing that the GBC had been meeting with Sridhar and taking his guidance, that this was Serious, they had to "Something" What they chose to do was very offensive. Some of these same men had just met with Sridhar a few days earlier and were glorifying him.

Ramesvar told Sridhar that hearing from him was the same as hearing from SP. They had just met with him, and they were all glorifying him. But, suddenly they felt he was now a major threat. So, they began telling devotees that JT's leaving was all Sridhar's fault. That Sridhar was just another of SP's envious God brothers That Sridhar had STOLEN JT away from ISKCON and SP.

They turned, like snakes, against the same man that just days before they were privately glorifying him as being As Good As Srila Prabhupad.

Imagine. They could turn so vile against someone whom they considered AS Good AS Prabhupad? They committed a grave offense.

Sridhar may not have been without faults, but, he certainly wasn't the envious snake the GBC were now telling everyone he was. The GBC just wanted to STOP devotees in general from going over to him, and leaving ISKCON.

Sridhar was deeply hurt by this. He cried over it, 'Why Srila Prabhupad's leading disciples had turned so viciously against him?' What sort of leaders was this? He told devotees that ISKCON was doomed. With GBC leaders like this, the future of Prabhupad's mission was doomed. (Some devotee told me that he was in the room when Sridhar made those comments, but he thought Sridhar was actually cursing - that he was upset because the GBC stopped taking his advice and that because of that he cursed SP's mission to fail But from my research that isn't what he said. He was hurt because the GBC turned so vile against him. They were glorifying him one day, and the next spreading untrue lies about him.

So, Bhakta Charu had gone to Sridhar in around 83 or 84 and told him why the GBC had turned on him, and that is where I got most of this info. Sridhar's disciples had recorded the meeting and they have transcripts and mp3 files of it. Plus other writings of his followers, and other sources.

After JT left ISKCON he tried to help Sridhar spread his Sri Caitanya Sarasvati Math organization, but, yes, JT fell back into his LSD world and illicit sex life. And, yes, he got into a bit of a cultish mentality. But, before he was guru, when SP was still with us, he was a nice devotee. I enjoyed his association and learned a lot as he shared many stories with me about his association with SP. It was a painfully dark day when i found out that he had lied to us, on SP's name, before his murti when he proclaimed that he was innocent. When i found out that he had lied, it hurt because i really liked him as a God brother. When I joined as a new bhakta he gave me good association. I miss those days.

What drove these men mad was they were committing so many offenses to SP. Personally, i would never accept any idea that JT was compliant in poisoning SP - I don't think that we will ever know in this world what really happened and who was involved. The only way I can imagine that any one other than 1 or 2 core people could have been involved would be if Tamal had convinced some that SP had asked for 'something' to help him leave sooner. Then maybe there was some compliance, if they thought they were doing what SP wanted. But, this is all speculative. I don't want to speculate on such an all important issue.

SP left this world according to Krishna's desire, thats all. He wasn't poisoned before Krsna wanted him to leave.

[PADA: Thanks for sharing this. Yes, the GBC can be saying you are their favorite God brother one day, or even that you are even a pure devotee as good as Srila Prabhupada, and then they can say you are a demon the next day, and that is why they are considered as envious snakes. We also heard a story from a Sridhara Maharaja follower that some of the GBC gurus had wanted to bomb the Matha of Sridhara, and this is one reason some people were making bombs on the ISKCON Mayapura property (which exploded while they were making the bombs).

Of course the same thing also happens to us sometimes, someone joins our camp one day, then the next day says we we are demons. Its the nature of Kali yuga that people are not loving, trusting and loyal to one another as they were in the Vedic days. What can be done? We just have to be happy that we can take shelter of Krishna and move along. ys pd]

Monday, September 16, 2013

Gopal Krishna disciples reading PADA

PADA: We have got some very nice inquiries recently from some Gopal Krishna folks who are reading the PADA archives at http://harekrsna.org Its still getting anywhere from 50,000 up to 2 million hits a month. Bangalore and other folks have also been advertising it. Apparently, at least we are told, typing in any sort of Hare Krishna type topic in the search engines takes a person there. Who knows? Anyway, its waking up at least some people -- all the time, since its obviously being researched by numbers of people. Sorry to have to say this but, Brahmanda said to us if this web site was not true, the GBC could challenge it, but 999.999 percent is true, so they really do not discuss or challenge the content in public. They cannot. ys pd