Abhimanyu Writes / New Vrndavana VS TOVP / Prabhupada's Passing 05 26

“The gopis saw their beloved Krishna at Kurukshetra after a long separation. They secured and embraced Him in their hearts through their eyes, and they attained a joy so intense that not even perfect yogis can attain it. The gopis cursed the creator for creating eyelids that interfered with their vision." – Chaitanya-Charitamrita Adi-lila 4.153

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SHARING - Please feel free to share your thoughts.

By Abhimanyu Das - Australia

Sitting here realizing that the past 2 years has been a process of exiting a cult. A cult where I was Groomed and prepared to accept the authority of another man over myself and my wife. I was prepared to serve a "Mission" and not given a proper education nor adequate life skills to meet the challenges of life with awareness and security. I have roamed "post-mayapur" trying so hard to figure out who I am and what I am actually supposed to do with my life.

Luckily Matiz and I got out of it. We are still Vaishnavas, thats our preference in terms of Dharma Practice and Bhav. Thats our faith due to our own experiences and knowledge. Not everything about being a devotee is foolish, abusive, or wrong. Vaishnava-dharma is a legitimate way to practice love of God, its a faith, and a view on life. it has a role in the religious landscape of reality.

The Cult we left is a structure of belief and bureaucracy. Actually a failed system of false Gurus, GBC, Temple presidents, and sycophants rubberstamped by fallen souls who lack genuine wisdom and experiential knowledge to implement the age old religious path of Vaishnavism.

Why failed? Despite having the some information and instruction on the practice of Vaishnava dharma, it has become apparent that this has not produced in them the required spiritual insight and wisdom to simply stand for goodness and truth. They chose instead to protect child abusers, and allow child abuse to become a norm. 

Grooming is the actual term for how we got raised in Mayapur up till my initiations (At which point I became irrelevant). That was something going on for all of us. I have only just started understanding how wrong this all has been. How much pain so many of my friends and family are going through acknowledging this reality.

I still go to my local SICK-CON temple to support my wife and her desire to serve our community. We also go to the Gaudiya math and sometimes the Govinda dhama for Kirtan and prasad-seva. We love the devotees in general. We love Krsna, prasad, kirtan, and the beauty of Krsna-Bhakti is full of wonderful qualities. 

Bhakti enhances our lives and brings us into a wonderful appreciation for everything that occurs, even our traumas. However, The "Hare Krsna" community has a lot of work to do in order to rectify the past and prevent the repetition of past mistakes, an outcome I think we all can see coming based on how things are being handled. Business as usual. Nothing will change unless we implement the changes in our family and community.

First rule of a good revolution, Stop following STUPID rules and start speaking TRUTH and NEVER submit to False-Gurus.

Guru is one who has attained Samadhi
Guru is one has connection to a bona fide Lineage of Gurus.
Guru is one who achieved Mantra-siddhi
Guru is one who has knowledge of Sastra and Sad-Acara
Guru is one who can guide on across the ocean of Mental / Illusions.
Guru is the incarnation of the Mercy of Bhagavan - Anugraha / Saktyavesha.
Guru is not under any rule or regulation but makes suitable programs for disciples to get themselves out of their troubles and into Krsna seva.

One who has not attained Samadhi cannot teach another about the truths therein. One who has not had darshana of the Mantra-Devata cannot pass on the Mantra. These are the rules and truths related to GURU-Tattva.

Guru-tattva malpractice has ruined ISKCON, and it previously ruined the Gaudiya-math as well. I think the only way forward is to allow Sri Guru to manifest himself naturally and cease the programs that have been running in guise of Guru-Disciple relations.

I offer my obeisances to Sri NItyanada Rama, The Avadhuta, the Highest reality, and the one who is the one who is the only one who is Sri Guru complete. It is he alone that ones submission must be absolute for he is the TRUTH of who we really are.

Suddha-Sattva mayo Visnu
Kalyana Guna Sagara
Narayana Parama Brahma
Vipranam devatam Harih
Om Hram hrim hrum Daso'Ham So'Ham Hamsah hrsikesaya Sarvatmane namah Svaha!

To all my friends who have gone through this system I bow to you and what you have endured. I pray you find peace and joy in this life by casting off the shackles and shame they have artificially placed upon you. I wish you health and happiness surrounded by loving family and friends who wish you the best ... and that only.
May Krsna always bless you for all your sincere service efforts and the courage to take care of yourself for real.

PADA: Sick-con. Yep, about sums it up. Someone else just said to me that if the GBC is down to having fools like Krishna Kirti and Gopal Krishna's India ICC pedophile acharya's loyalists defend the ISKCON guru ship, they are doomed. Almost everyone else who used to defend them -- like Badrinarayan, Hrdayananda, Satsvarupa, Ravindra Swarupa, Trivrikrama swami, Prithu and others -- have nothing much to say these days. If anything, they are laying low, at least in the USA. 

They seem know -- their whole "guru" thing has been exposed as basically a Mayapur and / or other "guru schools" pedophile grooming systems, and not much more than that. And defending that system is "defending the indefensible." 

They cannot explain why -- they made sexual perverts into gurus, why there has been rampant -- if not industrial levels of -- child abuse, why so many people abandoned ship, why so many people are skeptical of their gurus, why they created so many media scandals and giant lawsuits, why they created giant manpower and funds spin offs like Sridhara and Narayan cults -- and thereby made thousands of people leave ISKCON and etc. Because there is no good explanation. They deviated, and that is increasingly clear to one and all. 

This devotee said, the ISKCON leaders think because they are maybe millionaires they are protected, but Coronel Sanders -- who was in charge of Kentucky Fried Chicken -- was also a multi-million dollar big important man, but that does not save him from taking birth as a chicken on a chicken farm. They just don't believe in Krishna now, but they will have to some day. 

ys pd 

angel108b@yahoo.com 

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NEW VRNDAVAN VS TOVP

UPDATE: "After less than 24 hours, the TOVP poll results have been tallied, and the vast majority of the New Vrndavan community has declined to support the TOVP coming to New Vrindaban to fund raise. If anyone still undecided would like more information, please reach out to Jaya.krsna@newvrindaban.com. 

We would like to thank everyone for taking the time to voice their opinion. The TOVP organizers have been informed of the results. Hare Krishna! Your servant, Jaya Krsna das. 

Polling Results 

77 no 

12 yes 

4 unsure 

5 need more information 

* * * Jaya Krsna, temple president of New Vrindaban, is asking devotees to vote on allowing the TOVP to come to New Vrindaban, although he makes it seem like it's a done deal saying the TOVP have already "made plans": "Hare Krishna dear ​B​rijbasis, Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. As summer approaches, we eagerly anticipate the annual 24 Hour Kirtan on June 17th. Guests from all over will flood New Vrindaban as we will be taken into the ocean of the Holy Names of Krishna. Organizers of the TOVP (Temple of the Vedic Planetarium) have made plans to visit New Vrindaban and have requested to show a presentation before the festivities begin. 

As most know, the TOVP has been the center of recent controversy. Two devotees (who were engaged in TOVP service for many years) were implicated in cases of child abuse. Although they no longer serve the TOVP, many devotees are still hurt by them and are processing this information. The most auspicious padukas (shoes) of Lord Nityananda and silver helmet of Lord Nrsimhadeva are traveling along with this group of devotees — which includes the illustrious and beloved Jananivas Prabhu. 

We want to facilitate these devotees in a way that is respectful while remaining sensitive to our community’s needs and desires. Please vote with the link below if you would like to welcome the TOVP crew to New Vrindaban. The temple will follow the outcome of this poll. The poll allows you to attend a Zoom call on the topic if you need more information before making your decision.

https://form.jotform.com/231428178317155 

Hare Krishna. Your servant, Jaya Krsna das" Jaya Krsna states above that "two devotees (who were engaged in TOVP service for many years) were implicated in cases of child abuse. Although they no longer serve the TOVP..." He is referring to BHAVANANDA and SATADHANYA who are very much involved in the TOVP project on a day-to-day basis right now. 

Satadhanya works out of the public and visible Fundraising office, and Bhavananda controls the design of the TOVP. Any design decision must be approved by Bhavananda. Brajavilas, TOVP Fundraising Director, is trying to raise money in North America, and many of the North American leaders are letting him in, without fact-checking his misinformation. 

I have fact checked by speaking with devotees who work in the TOVP. Not only have these devotees confirmed that Bhavananda and Satadhanya are involved, but these TOVP devotees are also upset about it. One devotee said, "Ask anyone in Mayapur. Everyone knows Bhavananda and Satadhanya work for the TOVP." 

This is a trusted position of authority and until we act with our voices and our money, Bhavananda and Satadhanya will continue to be glorified in Mayapur, within the TOVP, and in the Mayapur community. Note: Bhavananda is currently in Australia right now dealing with a new huge child abuse lawsuit against ISKCON that he is implicated in. Is this someone we want representing ISKCON? 

Please vote NO in allowing the TOVP to come to New Vrindaban. Anyone can vote. To help you make an informed decision, please read about the great harm these two people have done to children in our ISKCON society: Satadhanya https://docs.google.com/.../1YTGDnKVzhAvku7KTI65MpFLwV0GQ... Bhavananda https://docs.google.com/.../1A0Nu_vMGKxLUBDI... PHOTO, left to right: Satadhanya, Bhavananda, Radhanath Swami, Ambarisa.

PADA: Well yep, but industrial levels of child abuse means, more than two people are involved as implicated in the regime. Lots more are involved, and they are people like Jayapataka, Dayarama and so many more. My friend says when he goes to his USA temple they are always begging him to take initiation from people like Jayapataka, because then he could do the deity pooja. 

And they tell him, the main people doing the pooja now are older and some have severe physical problems, so the deity program is collapsing. He told me, they just don't get it? People are not coming to take initiation from them, because they know someone like Jayapataka is the leader of a pedophile cult. Taking initiation from him would be like taking initiation from Satan, why would anyone want to do that? He said one day all of them are going to wake up, and realize they have been living in a bad dream and not reality, either this life or the next.  

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My Account of Prabhupad's Passing


12/14/97


USA (VNN) - Raghunatha Anudas - This is my account of Prabhupad's passing.

This morning, I had breakfast with a leading devotee. We talked of guru-kulis today and our childhood's past. We happened upon my days in Vrindavan from `76 to 82. She asked if I had been there at the time of Prabhupada's passing. I had. I relayed how I had been there at the foot of Prabhupad's bed during the entire afternoon until his passing at 7:20 pm. I was 12 years old at the time. There are a great many things I remember from that day but there are two things that stood out in my mind. After discussing it, we thought the community of devotees would also appreciate my account.

The first has to do with the massages devotees were giving Prabhupad. I clearly remember them because I too had massaged Prabhupad repeated throughout that afternoon. His lotus feet. I debated this carefully. Should I ask someone or just reach under the sheets and begin. I did. Many devotees were taking Prabhupad's hands and massaging them. None asked. 

But they were all leading devotees. Upendra, Prabhupada's servant, for a time. He brought his boy to join him. There were others. Manihara - maybe. After rubbing Prabhupad's feet on and off over the course of several hours, I stopped. Not because of boredom or philosophical concerns but something so much more dreadful. Was this painful to Srila Prabhupada?

In both my experience of touching Prabhupad and seeing his reaction to others, it seemed as if Prabhupad was pulling away every time someone tried to massage him. This was very significant for besides this, Prabhupad had been motionless. 

It was so obvious, that Narayan Maharaj had even commented upon it. He said something to the effect that Prabhupad was "dancing with the gopis." I did not have such transcendental vision. My reaction both then and now was, is, that these massages were causing a great deal discomfort to Prabhupada.

PADA: Narayana Maharaja because my worst critic when I bought out the poison issue. He said I was making offenses etc. But he was right there at the scene of the crime self-evidently, as the poison was apparently being administered to Srila Prabhupada. 

He knew more about this issue than I ever could have known at the time. He was right there. "Dancing with the gopis" or being systematically poisoned? And then NM became the topmost bucket boy for Tamal's cabal, and NM said he was "the dear Tamal tree of Radha." Something horrible was going down, and he thought it was dancing with the gopis, just like he endorsed Tamal's pedophile guru regime as dancing with the gopis. Nope and nope!

Prabhupada's dance with the gopis seemed to coincide - exclusively - with these massages. Many devotees may recall the reports that Prabhupad had no fat left on his bones. It was nothing more then skin lying directly on nerves and muscles. Prabhupad's skin was therefore extremely sensitive. I stopped massaging Prabhupad when I saw Upendra restraining Prabhupada's hand after Prabhupad had pulled away from him. Not once. Nor twice. But several times. It made such an impression upon me that I decided then: I would give specific directions for my own passing. Do not massage me. I remember -vividly - to this day.

Not surprisingly, the most dramatic incident of the day was the moment of Prabhupad's passing. This too appeared to me quite different then other official accounts. Once again, it concerns the "service" the devotees were offering to Srila Prabhupad. There was a long spouted container (but quite small) that held holy water taken from the sacred rivers and kunda's from around India. This container would poor less then a small teaspoon of water at a time. The devotees would do so when Prabhupada opened his mouth as he did every so often in 20 minute to couple hour intervals. Again, this too was looked upon as quite eventful. This was the only other interaction the devotees saw from Prabhupada.

The last devotee to share in this, a sannyasi, was administrating the water. (He remains a leading sannyasi today and so I will not use his name.) But this time, Prabhupada was opening his mouth much more frequently. Instead of opening every 20 minutes or so, Prabhupad was opening every few, then every couple. This created something of a stir from the devotees. Prabhupad was once again accepting some service. Prabhupad was taking water. This devotee continued with a sense that Prabhupad was thirsty and almost requesting more water. For a moment there, it seemed as if Prabhupad was coming to. But suddenly, another devotee, Manihar, also standing there at the head of Prabhupada's bed, grabbed the devotee's hand. "Stop! Prabhupada can't breath." This poor sannyasi looked to Manihara. Mortified. "What?" He asked. Again Manihara said. "Prabhupad can't breath!" Was Prabhupad trying to speak or breath or chant Hare Krsna? What ever the case, it was my impression as it was for this sannyasi and Manihara's that they were drowning Prabhupad with this water.

It was this very incident that marked Srila Prabhupada's passing. This is what caused the commotion among the devotees sitting in the back of the room to now rush forward. It was this that brought the devotees from the next room. This is when the chanting went from gentle singing, to resounding kirtan, to screaming with all their heart and all their soul, as loud as they could: "Hare Krishna!!" "Hare Krishna!!" Bhardaraj was leading the Hare Krishna Kirtan. Hansadutta suddenly jumped in to lead Jai Prabhupada! The devotees split in responding to both until there was no leader. All sang in unison. Hare Krsna! Jai Prabhupad! Most cried. Uncontrollably. This is the setting in which Prabhupad passed from this world.

I was there at the foot of Prabhupad's bed during all of this just as I appear in Yadubar's filming of this day. I could see everything clearly. I have heard that Prabhupad was `dancing' prior to his passing. Others - who were not there, reported that Prabhupad was chanting Hare Krsna at the time of his passing. Devotees can draw their own conclusion. I am simply stating my first hand experience and observations. Again, I was just a boy of 12. One who was initiated. 16 rounds a day. And twice up for brahmin initiation. (Canceled with all other initiations after Prabhupad's health turned for the worse.) In other words, I was a mature 12 year old much as India often does to most. I was at my best with Prabhupada. More so than most of my peers as all my teachers from those days will attest. I had the same adoration as any 12 year old Catholic boy would if told he were in the company of Christ himself. I was diligent and attentive. I loved Prabhupad, as I do today. This is my account of this unique event. It serves as one more voice of the many who were fortunate enough to have been there.

PADA: Chandramauli swami recently lectured that Srila Prabhupada suffered from taking karma. Or was he suffering from being poisoned by the cabal? We think that he was suffering the effects of poison because -- he directly said that, I have the symptoms of a person who is being poisoned, and he would know. 

To say all this is dancing with the gopis shows how ignorant and foolish some of these people are, if not they are conscious cover ups for the cabal. And then many of these same people went on to cover up numerous other problems like child abuse and countless other crimes -- all being done in the name of Krishna, dancing with the gopis no less, for which they will be punished most severely by the Yamaduttas.

angel108b@yahoo.com

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TINA TURNER R.I.P. 

BV Sagar Maharaja / IRM / What Leadership? ETC. 05 25

PADA: Yes, Bhaktivedanta Sagar Maharaja and / or his mentor BV Narayan Maharaja wanted to make NM's "monkeys" i.e. illicit sex with men, women and children deviants -- into acharyas -- so as "not to stop the parampara." They did not seem to realize that by so doing, they stopped the parampara. 

Meanwhile the followers of NM are proclaiming themselves to be diksha gurus, equals to Jesus, who can absorb sins. I think a devotee is supposed to be more humble than a blade of grass, and not self-appointing oneself as the next messiah and Jesus, sum total of the demigods, God's successor no less? 

But there is friction among the NM messiahs / guru group, because even they do not believe all of their gurus are pure devotees among themselves. Meanwhile, they have never explained why Narayan Maharaja has supported a monkey / illicit sex / pedophile / drunks / porno swami guru process in the first place? 

ys pd angel108b@yahoo.com

krishna1008: BV Narayana Maharaja's Monkey Messiahs (UPDATE) VIDEO

A Devotee: Janananda swami on Dandavats this morning said that 1 indian devotee has 800,000 students enrolled in an online Bhagavad Gita course, 200 proffessors chanting 16 rounds a day

PADA: Yes, Janananda was one of the people who told me that he thinks I am wrong to oppose Jayatirtha being the acharya, when he was having affairs with disciples and he was offering LSD to the shalagram. Janananda supported having me removed and Jayatirtha staying as the acharya. In other words, he wanted my children to worship debauchees as their messiahs. So if there are ten billion people who think it is a good idea to equate acharyas and debauchees, that will never make it a fact. ys pd

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ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM

SD: To me the elephant in the room is the GBC is allowing and promoting, by their total silence, the publicly self-admitted felonious pedophile Lokanath in silencing Saraswati and Damodara by his bogus spurious lawsuit to not discuss arguably the current biggest child abuse scandal.

I understand there are basically two categories of posters on this forum. One who think ISKCON is too corrupt for reformation currently and are merely warning others. The second who actively are engaged in ISKCON and believe reformation and accountability are possible.

My intention in posting this is to hear what tangible actions devotees that want to be involved in are going to do to hold the GBC responsible. Apparently all of the GBC are delighted that the bogus lawsuit has silenced discussion on this topic. It makes their jobs and glaring hypocrisy so much easier.

lokanath.net

PADA: I think ISKCON has long ago given up on appeasing the Western devotees. They kicked most of them out -- and see them now as a sort of nuisance of disgruntled renegades. One guru told my friend he has to preach in the Baltics and Russia and never come to the USA "to avoid the angry mobs." We are just an angry mob that interferes with their main business, handing everything off to the Hindus and making new age motivation yoga camps, women doing yoga exercise in yoga pants etc. 

Even way back in the 1980s Jayapataka was sending Bengalis to do the poojas in USA temples, because they had removed most of the Western ones. Recently the woman who was still placing Kirtanananda photos on the altars was exposed, and New Vrndavana said that is because there is a shortage of poojaris, so they had to use and allow her. They ran everyone off pretty much, they don't want or need us. So they are really not focused much on the angry mob of Western devotees, which is bad news but also good news, it means we are free to operate pretty much out of their interference and radar. 

At the same time we still have to expose them because they do have some nominal powers here, and growing powers in India, and they are still a peril to children, here and everywhere else. And moreover, they are misrepresenting Krishna. A reform movement is needed to address their exploiting, and also a parallel movement is needed to eventually replace them. The growing consensus is, they cannot be reformed because they have no intent of that happening. ys pd

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IRM Back To Prabhupada, Issue 74, Vol. 3, 2022

There has only ever been one official debate authorised by the full GBC regarding the "guru issue", or what should have happened in ISKCON after Srila Prabhupada's physical departure. This was the debate organised by Martin Luther University, Germany, between the IRM and the GBC. For this debate, the GBC chose Krishna Kirti Dasa ("KKD") to represent it, and the full debate was published by the university as a book. This book is available on request, and the ebook is also available on our website.

KKD has now been selected again to officially represent ISKCON in regard to a debate. This time, it is on behalf of ISKCON India via the ISKCON India Scholars Board ("IISB"), of which he is the convenor. The IISB is ISKCON India's body of supposed brahminical advisors. Thus, on behalf of the IISB, KKD recently issued a "challenge" to the chairperson of the GBC's Sastric Advisory Council ("SAC"), Urmila Devi Dasi ("UDD"), regarding the issue of female diksa gurus ("FDG"):

"The ISKCON India Scholars Board formally challenges the Sastric Advisory Council to a public sastrartha*, refereed and judged by learned scholars agreeable to both sides, with regard to the adhikara of women to become acarya ("diksha-guru")."

(KKD Letter on behalf of IISB, 7/8/22)

*Means debate based on sastra.

The SAC is basically the GBC's version of ISKCON India's IISB.

Debater's self-defeat

As stated at the outset, KKD himself was previously involved in a debate defending GBC diksa gurus on behalf of the GBC. However, he failed to defend them, as we clearly demonstrated in our rebuttal to his GBC authorised paper which can be viewed here. In this previous debate, KKD argued for successor diksa gurus to Srila Prabhupada, a position the IISB agrees with, and that the following quote is his evidence for this argument:

"Remarks such as

At the same time, I shall request them all to become spiritual master. Every one of you should be spiritual master next -- continue to be problematic for the hard ritviks."

But this quote KKD supplied from Srila Prabhupada would apply equally to all of Srila Prabhupada's disciples, both male and female – as Srila Prabhupada states that his request is directed to all and every single one of his disciples, since he uses the words: "them all"/"every one of you". Thus, by KKD claiming that the above quote is evidence that Srila Prabhupada wanted his disciples to become diksa gurus, KKD is accepting that Srila Prabhupada ordered FDG. 

And, therefore, he has already rebutted his anti-FDG position against the GBC and hence would lose any debate with the GBC's SAC! Thus, these quotes are actually "problematic" for KKD! (We have previously shown that, in reality, in these quotes Srila Prabhupada is not asking every single one of his many thousands of disciples to become diksa gurus, but qualified siksa gurus, preaching on his behalf. For example, see BTP 45 article "Srila Prabhupada's Guru Order".)

IISB's double standards

KKD was initiated by HH Hridayananda Dasa Goswami ("HD") who gave KKD his initiated name which he still uses. However, as we covered in BTP 23 (QNN, "GBC Spokesman Against IRM Dumps Guru"), KKD rejected HD as his guru:

"for many years I have been an initiated disciple of Hridayananda Goswami. However, on account of recent news of his blessing of homosexual nuptials and his less-than-straightforward response to the devotee community about his involvement, I have formally ended my relationship with him as his disciple."

(KKD, 15/2/09)

However, KKD has also written a paper on behalf of the IISB trying to justify that HH Lokanath Swami ("LOK") should be allowed to maintain his diksa guru position in spite of his having signed a letter admitting to having sexually abused a minor whilst he was a diksa guru (see previous article). This paper titled "Vedic Jurisprudence and Atonement" claims:

"There is no mention of removing a person (Vaisnava) from the position of guruship, even for sins as heinous as brahmahatya, and even a sin such as brahmahatya does not necessarily mean that a guru is no longer bona fide."

The heinous sin of "brahmahatya" refers to killing a brahmana. So, in order to support LOK not being removed as diksa guru, IISB claims that one cannot be removed as a guru and can remain bona fide even if he commits really heinous sins such as killing a brahmana, thus also exempting one from being removed as a guru for the sexual abuse of a minor. But the IISB has not objected to KKD, its convener, considering HD to no longer be a bona fide guru and thus removing HD from guruship of himself for doing something which they are not even claiming was anywhere remotely close to being a "sin as heinous" as killing a brahmana. Therefore, the IISB:

a) Supports deviant gurus being unremovable and considered bona fide if the guru is LOK, but not in another case. This is a double standard;

b) Promotes the idea that deviant gurus may be bona fide gurus when Srila Prabhupada clearly states that a bona fide guru would never deviate in the first place:

"A bona fide spiritual master is in the disciplic succession from time eternal, and he does not deviate at all from the instructions of the Supreme Lord"

(Bg., 4.42, purport)

Conclusion

In the "debate" challenge sent by IISB to the SAC mentioned at the outset, it also accuses the SAC of having "deficiencies in its own scholarship". However, as we have shown:

1) The IISB convener has already lost this FDG "debate" before it has begun;

2) The IISB is exposed supporting a pro-deviant guru philosophy that is both inconsistent and opposed to Srila Prabhupada's teachings. And in the last issue, in the article "The Failure of ISKCON India's "Scholars"", we showed the IISB talking contradictory nonsense where it rejected evidence from both Srila Prabhupada and ISKCON India itself!

Thus, the IISB also needs to get its own "scholarship" in order!

Both sides in the FDG debate have continually been exposed by the IRM failing in trying to justify how they can replace Srila Prabhupada – whether with male, female or deviant gurus!

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WHAT LEADERSHIP?

DD: Do ISKCON’s leaders, in good conscience, notice all the people that they have alienated, discouraged in their Krishna consciousness and driven to the edges of the movement (and beyond) and not feel an ounce of responsibility or guilt?
Do they not join the dots? Do they simply blame others for the disengagement - ignoring Prabhupada’s 50:50 assessment? Are they just unaware or simply don’t care?

Perhaps they think that the buildings they erect somehow offset the harm they’ve done. Or other external symbols of accomplishment. Personally I see it as a travesty that there is seemingly zero awareness and concern. Perhaps they are just having such a good time, enjoying the perks of privilege, the lifestyles, the adoring flocks…..

Prabhupada spoke of crying when he became aware of someone leaving…..

What a contrast!

D Dasi: They do not realize because they are after an ever increasing following, mainly in India.

DD: Yes, an increase in numbers is one metric. But Prabhupada spoke of quality over quantity. If thinking and mature people disengage and all that is left is young impressionable and less discerning fans……. then what are we to make of that.

If we lose subsequent generations of people born into the movement, then what does that say about the movement’s health…? If we have exclusive appeal amongst the Indian diaspora and cease to have any relevance to people from other demographics then what to make of that?

K Dasi: I agree. I don't think they see that though, at least not as a general body. Or they do see it and don't care.

DD: AG made an interesting observation recently - about incentives. In their own lived experience, everything’s going great. So they have no incentive to change and every incentive to keep things exactly as they are. Wherever they go as individuals, worshippers throng to hang on their every word. Their lifestyles are on a par with the average multi-millionaire.

It’s a bit like the fallacy of the prosperity gospel. “Hey, I must be in great consciousness. Look how much facility Krishna is giving me. Others are only failed and envious.”

BG: Keep up the good work and keep doing your best. However don't bring in any wedges, and divide Indian Diaspora etc. Don't identify with the body "American", "European", "Indian", Black, Brown, Yellow, White, Red etc skin colours.

That will not bring any auspiciousness. It's more difficult to make an Indian into a Gaudiya, than Westerner? Or easier? It's even more difficult to unlearn and then teach. Anyway that topic for another day. But don't politicise, Indian devotees follow blindly, and support GBC kind of sweeping statements.

There are all sorts of people at all levels in volunteering and religious organizations. We encourage everyone to join. So it's bound to happen some people will relapse to old habits. Let's propose some short term, medium term, long term , preventive and permanent corrective actions.

Let there be one definition "Devotee", no Indian Devotee, Western Devotee etc,...
Ofcourse for identification, for understanding, even in Caitanya Caritamrita, they are identified as Bengali Devotees, Odiya Devotees et al, that is for identification purposes. Otherwise Devotee is a Devotee is a Devotee.

JC: I know what you mean Prabhu. But... The defence of a child abusing guru was done by a cabal of Indian devotees because us Westerners did not understand your 'Indian ways'. I thought this was the most libelous slander of a noble Indian culture imaginable. But many of your countrymen bought it hook, line and sinker.
Please mobilise your Indian friends to join with us to kick this contamination out of iskcon, or go down in history as defending it.

KJ: They really think they are the ones keeping Iskcon going and expanding. They’re proud to say; 2,500 temples, hundred thousand disciples world-wide,
year after year, with their edited, changed books continuously being altered & distributed, all the while keeping on with their concoctions for profit, adoration and distinction. They don’t look at the negative, “it’s maya” & with the blind followers supporting them, nothing will ever change in centralised Iskcon incorporated.

KK: I don't think they care. As long as they are good and their needs are being met, plenty money, worship etc. And it's a known fact that when quality is missing then quantity will suffice... hence the big buildings, this preoccupation with ever new and bigger buildings is an indication of their mentality which is focused on the externals.

ML: What is Srila Prabhupada’s 50:50 assessment?

DD: He opined that, if people leave, it is often partly the leaver’s own responsibility and partly leadership’s. Of course when 95% leave, we might ask what the leaders are doing.

DM: This is a question I've been grappling with for a long time. Do the leaders understand the fallout? The answer is no. Professional golfers think the whole world is a country club and ISKCONs leaders, by the nature of their approach, don't understand the plight of most would be members of the society because they are preoccupied with whoever remains. Disaffected people don't send travel invitations or buy you plane tickets.

EM: I am sure they see the fallout, but being stuck on the lowest common denominator, as was pointed out by Nrsimhananda das in the latest podcast and being largely incompetent, the show is going on. As the saying in France goes : Après nous le déluge! Unless there is a well-organized counter offensive by the fallout community, the organizational politics of Iskcon will continue to be chaotic and destructive.

BR: There are two distinct groups who leave. Those who join, and those who are born inside the movement. Its a travesty this continues and has been un-noticed for the best part of 50 years.

SD: The leadership knows exactly what it's doing. It has been this way since at least 1973 when I started visiting the temples. They are only interested in persons that accept the way they behave, that are easy to manipulate and control, and lack much ability to discriminate or investigate.

Look at the quality of people that are involved in ISKCON and what they accept for behavior in their leadership. The information was readily available from any perfunctory research at a library since the anticult movement started in the mid 1970s and has been available with the tap of a keyboard since the internet was founded. The type of people that are attracted and support iskcon choose not to exercise their own powers of investigation and discrimination.

GS: I heard one GBC said better to focus on new devotees. But new ones are not stupid. They will soon see corruption. 

S Dasi: You can find the answer to all these questions and speculations about why GBC works the way it does in the book by Dhanesvara prabhu Divine or demoniac - when a person reads it, everything is clear to him.

https://www.amazon.com/Divine-Demoniac.../dp/1733774440

Divine Or Demoniac?: Spiritual Movements and the Enemies Within

AMAZON.COM

DB: ........Then the best still go on an do great things anyway? ........... while agreeing with the above totally, Jayaa Prabhupada

AD: I shortened the quote by two words. When you promote the WRONG people you lose your BEST people. 

ND: When trees have an airborne incurable disease its foundations are unsafe + being situated in a public place, then they are removed. Otherwise the one tree may be a catalyst to infect forests of millions of trees, also adversely infecting the soil for new generations of trees.

VD: The GBC, in all its incarnations, simply doesn't care. As long as the adulation and money rolls along nicely, that's it, job done.

RR: May be an image of 2 people and text that says 'PASTOR, I'VE GOT A QUESTION FOR YOU YOU ARE A MAN OF GOD RIGHT? BUT WHY IS IT THAT WHEN YOU NEED MONEY YOU COME ΤΟ US BUT WHEN WE NEED, YOU SEND US TO GOD?'

PADA: Except the India ICC said I am a bogus mleccha because I do not worship their illicit sex with men, women and children messiah's club. One devotee here just now said these ICC clowns have produced a "butt sex sampradaya" which "smells like a rancid anus." Which explains why their temples are nearly empty of Western people. So anyone who does not worship the people attracted to their rancid smelling anus sex messiahs program is - a mleccha? And these are the scholars from India? 

That makes no sense? 

They clearly support a program that has had an epidemic of anus sex, even with children, and that is what they are attracted to -- mainly in India -- because we Westerners are rejecting that program, almost wholesale. Many of the molesters in Mayapur were India devotees, albeit trained by the homosexual pedophile messiah's club originally from the West. 

First of all, the ICC has never explained to us, why are they promoting a rancid anus smelling guru parampara in the first place, and why would anyone come up and have to tell me -- that process is what these ICC folks have produced? And what does their rancid smelling anus guru parampara have anything to do with Krishna and pure rasika etc. and why are they juxtaposing these items? 

The India ICC scholars cannot distinguish a rancid smelling anus sex guru parampara, from the real parampara, but we in WEST can easily see -- this is a deviation, and a mighty smelly one at that! Yep, this devotee is correct, the Westerners have left ISKCON in droves, because they smell this thing from miles away! ys pd angel108b@yahoo.com

============

PP: Are you saying that Indians are so stupid that they accept the rule of  American men as their Gurus to throw all their money at thus why these white bodied gurus dont want white and colored devotees around who are non hindus ?

PADA: I am saying that 99.9 percent of my help since 1978 is coming from the Western cops, media, courts, FEDS, and so on. And they helped me all along and still do. And the Western media folks liked me all along and now want to put me on a big TV show again in the fall etc. Whereas, who are the main current hold outs? The main people calling me a bogus Western Mleccha -- right now -- and supporting the idea that deviants are often acharyas -- are the people like those from the India ICC bureau etc. 

There is good news however, my blog is recently having India as number one readers / viewers, perhaps they are catching up. At the same time, the main organized opponents of the GBC are the Bangalore group, and they are also Indians, and they are supporting me and my views, especially my view that deviants are not, were not, could not have been God's successors, so not all of them are falling for bad ideas, but some of them are. 

At the same time India is a place where Srila Prabhupada told us "it is a bogus guru factory," so there is a trend and tendency for them to fall for false gurus, swamis, yogis, avatars etc. And therefore it is a good place to go if you want to exploit others by making yourself a big swami, yogi, avatar etc. When we were in India we visited a big swami on a giant seat who was being offered USA Marlboro cigarettes and golden lighters on a big table, and Srila Prabhupada swished his hands down, "don't say anything." ys pd

BV Narayana Maharaja's Monkey Messiahs (UPDATE) VIDEO

 

RE: Giriraja swami's Imbroglio (ISKCON) 05 23

RE: Giriraja swami's Imbroglio 

Shocking ignorance from “gurus” and leader of an ISKCON judiciary. These events illustrate just how entrenched problematic attitudes are. Several months ago, one victim bravely named her alleged abuser as - Kesava Bharati. This prompted several other alleged victims to come forward with their testimony - resulting in CPO and PLMO investigations being undertaken.

The initial (reporting) victim had disclosed this event prior to Giriraja Swami who indicated that he intended to take "no action" regarding reporting his friend. When he became aware that the victim had reported publicly reported ... he sought to influence her partner to have her take the account down.

When SD became aware of this interference - and lack of reporting - she raised concerns with the PLMO leader, Mahavisnupriya. She did so respectfully. It was a legitimate concern - duly evidenced.

Mahavisnupriya responded:

<<<….. As far as Giriraj Swami, I see nothing that he has done to be inappropriate or outside the bounds of our Office. He asked xxxxxxx (or her friend) to take down her FB post. This is only reasonable and appreciated by many devotees. Social media is NOT the forum for hanging out ISKCON's dirty laundry. This only leads to stoking the fires of rumor, misinformation, and rousing anger in others.

"When clear headed, sincere devotees guided by rules, regulations and laws use the tools of our offices that ISKCON has put in place, then decency exists. From decency, much can be accomplished like productivity, education, understanding, ethics, integrity, respectability, compassion, responsibility and real Leadership.

"It is when hot headed devotees try to take the law into their own hands, operating on their knee jerk reactions and alarming the masses by exposing others, sometimes unwillingly, in their creation of an "unruly mob" much like those that existed in the "lynching days" of earlier times in America; in the deep south against Black people who weren't even considered humans! 

"This is what I think of when people are unruly, angry and outspoken about what is not the truth. They lose all intelligence. This is never the right course of action.
Giriraj Swami acted respectfully as there are devotees and offices in existence to deal with these issues of child abuse, adult abuse and abuse of the vulnerable.

"I know of your desire to clean up the past, to end child abuse and to put the perpetrators away--- which is essentially all good. However doing it by exposing others publicly, on a huge public forum--social media, only destroys every good thing you are trying to accomplish.

Pls Rethink your agenda, prabhu.>>>>

DD: Here we have a senior leader [Giriraja swami] attempting to use his influence to silence a victim and protect his friend. And when it is raised to the Leadership Misconduct Office, the leader of that office berates SD ... likening her child protection campaigning to lethal hate crimes - fully endorsing the senior leader’s attempts to hush things up.

Then Giriraja Swami wrote directly to the victim:

<<<If my friend needs to be corrected, I will tell him. In the years since then, many efforts have been made to bring about some reconciliation and closure. And I believe it would be helpful here if you, xxxxxxxx, explained exactly what the abuse was, because "abuse" can mean many things.>>>

DD: Giriraja openly admits that the person whose abuse was reported is his friend. And the clear subtext is that he considered that there was no need for him to engage the PLMO. He then challenges the victim to publicly detail all the abuse - inferring that everyone would then see that it did not warrant further action. 

Giriraja Swami ends his letter to the victim with all the aforementioned downplaying and gaslighting with….

<<<<PS: I will now forward a letter from Kesava Bharati Dasa Goswami that could add some perspective to the matter.>>>>

DD: No sense that the victim might not wish to receive correspondence from her abuser. And further inferring that the abuser’s words will provide whatever “perspective” might have been lacking previously. Have these folks really got such a paucity of understanding in this day and age that this is how they deal with things.

Openly admitting that they feel such loyalty to friends that they can comfortably dismiss victims? Those running misconduct offices strongly berating those reporting misconduct - citing their own subjective disapproval of internet advocacy. Bear in mind that SD had first written privately. So, in essence, the very legitimacy of her complaint was being disregarded because “we don’t agree with your internet campaigning.”

What hope is there for the movement to ever eliminate abuse if this is how gurus behave and those running misconduct offices?

GC: As I said, it is garlands for pedos and denial for others. Materialism as it is. Cheating, abusing, exploiting. and when u notice the obvious and wanna stop that abuse than they label you -- an unruly mob -- and compare you to racist lynching crowd. Typical manipulation, fear and shame they try to install so they can keep going with that materialistic and destructive behaviour. Nothing loving or divine or enlightened in it.

KKD: By this and so many other evidence of disqualification of the leadership of Iskcon I come to the conclusion that they have already decided how to deal with the allegations of abuse and rape that has occurred or will occur. The strategy is always at first to cover up the case, then the dissemination of the information about the abuse to others, to then pressurize the victims or the whistleblowers to give up the report -- and if they can't, they remove the victims or their advocates, and move on to defame the victims or whistleblowers so that they lose credibility.

MM: I’m sickened to read all the gaslighting. Giriraj Swami knew of some pastoral misconduct of which I was myself a victim of (by one of his initiating godbrothers) because I told him to his face, and he did not suggest I report it nor report it himself. The whole gaslighting BS of not posting it in a public forum is enraging. 

That’s not the problem. The covering it up and not reporting it is the problem.
Am I terrified to share this? Yes but in solidarity with others, I can no longer responsibly stay silent.

DL: Thanks for having the courage to speak the truth.

BD: That's really courageous.

SR: When Mahavishnupriya was working as Tamohara's assistant I had a similar experience, her conduct demonstrated a far greater loyalty to defend the institutional interests than she did for the protection and welfare of the victims.

DD: I used to be of the view that it was improper to take grievances into the public domain. That Vaisnavas should humbly petition each other to address perceived issues. There’s no evidence that such tactics work.

SD made the most urbane and innocuous of requests to the PLMO. And the response was nasty. M Dasi disclosed her abuse in good faith to a Swami that she trusted to help, to guide, to take moral action, etc. But he elected to gaslight, hush things up, and protect his mate.

Enough already. Zero tolerance. This stuff needs calling out. We can’t pussy foot around these cultural problems. They help to perpetuate abuse. It needs calling out.

KV: Dandavat pranams. Dear prabhus and dear Mothers. Phalena phariciyate. And eternal Time reveals truth facts. One may ask what is solutions on the table? 

1.Report abusers to Law Ministry wherever possible, (by victims, or by witnesses, or when solid proofs are at hand) 

2.Do not leave your children unprotected and in Boarding Schools! 

3.Spiritual link to sampradaya and Sri Krishna is Srila Prabhupada as siksa guru via his vani. He is muktha jiva and he can protect his sincere siksha disciples, no doubts about that. 

4.Sadhu sanga with like minded serious and sincere sadhakas,who control sences.

MR: Thank you for the support. 

D Dasi: During the nineties, Giriraj Swami started a questionable relationship with his secretary Kunti devi. IDS encouraged him to get her married, in order to dissolve the suspicion surrounding this relationship. GS then married his really nice, wonderful brahmachari (Vd) disciple to Kd. 

Unfortunately, Vd didn't know what he was walking into. He wasn't allowed to have a real relationship with his wife. Remember, he was just window dressing. When he finally realized and objected to other senior leaders, nobody could really help him, except to get his passport back. 

In fear for his life, he left America, settled elsewhere and left Iskcon. His (ex)wife is still with GS, to this day. GS speaks about not airing dirty laundry in public and approaching the right Iskcon department for help. Yet, where was the help for his disciple Vd? Remember, when outing a guru, you have to worry about his buddies, his fanatical disciples, his supporters etc. For the victim, they stand on their own.

KJ: Wow, maybe he didn’t get married because he is gay as a fairy. One of his disciples found a picture of him dressed as a woman and probably why he is choses to have his female disciples care for him in his million dollar home.

D Dasi: I have never heard about this, so I cannot comment. The above story that I shared, I heard first hand from his disciple Vd.

DL: I also heard firsthand from Vd. He was the leading brahmacari of his day in South Africa at the time. He went from fired-up blissful sankirtana parties to being a lonely, unwelcome guest in his new wife's home. This subterfuge and the consequent gaslighting destroyed his devotional life.

SR: This culture of defending the perpetrators and attacking the victims and their advocates has minimized and normalized unacceptable abuse!!!

DD: “KB is my friend. Therefore whatever you’re telling me about him that makes me feel uncomfortable is not only untrue and unfair but needs to be shut down.”
“I don’t like your internet campaigning therefore we will also reject any reports you make about leadership misconduct.”

May be an image of text that says 'IF P IS FALSE, I WILL BE SAD. I DO NOT WISH To BE SAD. THEREFORE, P IS TRUE. 003 There. Now you can skip 99% of philosophical debates.'

DKD: They have closed themselves in a world where they are the only special choosen ones, the pure devotees and only their wellfare is important. And all others suffering is due to THEIR bad karma and they have not right to react. If they don't feel anymore comfortable, then simply pick up their bags and leave ISKCON. This is the reality.

VDG: I tell you ... expose them all publicly! A huge documentary should be made about psychological and sexual abuse in Iskcon. All these Swami's should be exposed for who they really are. It's so sad that these people can't understand what's real.

GS: What's the use of the misconduct office when it is run by a partial person? It will only create more harm and NOT enhance the reputation of ISKCON. What is the use of showing the world we are good when we are not? What is the use of constant cosmetic PR with no substance?

PD: One of these gurus told me once -- you know a lot, but only the tip of the iceberg, we know more than you ever will. I do not believe they are ignorant of the facts, they are probably getting many direct reports on a regular basis, probably more than us. 

And then Anuttama says -- the abuse testimony records all got lost when their computer was stolen. Handy huh? Mukunda swami, Satsvarupa swami and probably many others were known to toss "complaint letters" in the trash. All sorts of reports came in about Bhavananda's escapades, and he was still re-instated in 1986. They just consciously ignore things, which is not the same as being ignorant. ys pd

VK: Dont go public, we can't whitewash things that way. Better keep the dirty laundry in-house cos we've got huge carpets we can sweep it under.

S Devi Dasi: KJ, have you and others at the New Talavan CPO been vigilant to keep these abuse supporters from visiting or moving to New Talavan?

DS: Raising gaslighting to an artform, these people. Damage control much? Toss victims in the dustbin much? ALL THE MORE PROOF THAT US VIGILANTES AND WHISTLEBLOWERS MUST NOW CAMPAIGN LOUDER THAT EVER.

IS: Sadly the child abusers don't have to answer to the society for the violence, sexual abuse and lifetime suffering and trauma they inflicted upon their victims since they have been supported and protected by their friends in saffron and the controlling authorities. Adharmik activities are being accepted, condoned and covered up, but more victims are no longer being silenced because so many [most] quit institutional life where predators are accepted as senior devotees.

MD: I swear, even if you had a video of the abusive activity there would still be cover up and negation. Sometimes when you would never think to do something, it is very hard to wrap your head around the fact that someone you held in high esteem DID. It is so courageous of anyone who was abused to come forward. 

I am reminded of the young man who came forward in Alachua and blew the whistle on the devotee who was in charge of the boys school- Murlivadaka I think was his name. It took YEARS to have the congregation accept that these things went on - the entire community was devastated and divided over the disclosure. Some still do not accept the facts. Such a sad state of affairs. Hare Krishna.

KJ: Girija Swami. A gay, so-called renounced sannyasa, who loves living in his multi-million dollar mansion, his female disciples caring for him, cooking, cleaning and who knows what else? These false gurus keeping secret, private bank accounts (with more money then you can imagine). Enough said! Think out of the box you blind followers, you might wake up to this elite hypocrite club controlling your minds.

SR: The phrase comes to mind: "If such are the priests, then may God have mercy on the congregation". 

DD: It seems that the congregation is wising up - with the exception of those deeply committed to the fairytale.

MA: None is the answer!

MMG: I told long ago ... isgone is gone. Even if you make everything good from now on, the past is too bad to overcome for any sane person to join iskcon and have ANY faith in it.

PJ: I think SD has the right to protest against an ISKCON Guru who has confessed to molesting a little girl. Only extreme cults try to silence protests on social media.

SD: I want to acknowledge and thank MR for getting the ball rolling on Kesava Bharati's investigation. As a result of M publicly coming forwarding at least a half dozen people have submitted complaints against Kesava Bharati to either the PLMO or CPO. Thank you M!

I honestly don't know how Kesava Bharati was given his sannyas back, AND made a guru after what transpired in the 80s leading to his first sannyas being revoked. He was regularly paying sex workers to have sex with him, while he was a sannyasi, using temple money that the devotees earned with their blood, sweat, and tears on the streets, and who left their kids behind. 

While Kesava Bharati was visiting prostitutes, the little girls in the temple were being called prostitutes if they laughed too much or didn't cover their head. Let's make ISKCON better!

MR: SD ... grateful to have finally found the courage to speak up and help other women find their voice. May we bring healing and transformation to create a healthier culture for future devotee communities to grow in.

JW: KB Swami went on record supporting the book changes. He is guilty.

GP: This is an assault on India culture.

JC: I also suggested that he has been going to see prostitutes. Although, outrageous for a sanyasi, is not child abuse. I am not interested in policing the sanyasa ashrama. It might make him a creep but not a criminal.

SD: JC, If it was just Kesava Bharati some random dude going to sex workers I wouldn't even mention it. (Granted the sex workers are working of their own volition and not being trafficked.) However...

1. Kesava Bharati was using money that the parents had earned on the streets in the name of ISKCON, for ISKCON. Those same parents who left their kids in ashrams alone, and vulnerable to abuse. These parents were totally surrendered to a higher cause and were taken advantage of.

2. Kesava Bharati is being investigated right now for sexually abusing one of those kids, and there are reports of him grooming other children, and possibly sexually abusing another CHILD. There are also multiple reports of him sexually harassing and sexually abusing young women just over the age of 18. All of this paints a picture of who he is.

3. Kesava Bharati was removed from the sannyas ashram in 1987.

4. Had ISKCON leaders not reinstated Kesava Bharati in the sannyas ashram in 2004, and then put him in the sacred role of being a guru in 2006, he would not have been in a trusted role of authority to harm M in 2018 / 2019. It's pastoral abuse and it could have been prevented by not placing him in a role of leadership and guru. BUT... had M not been mistreated, she never would have publicly posted about Kesava Bharati's mistreatment towards her, and others would not have followed after, also filing complaints against Kesava Bharati.

You can see in my first comment above somewhere that I mentioned Kesava Bharati is being investigated by the CPO. That means he is being investigated for child abuse.

JC: OK... Fair enough. I think it is relavent as part of the back story. As in... ' well he is a Suta.' He is a sexual deviant. But at the moment, we are focusing on peaodophiles. We have plenty of them. The back story is useful. But let's not slip into dealing with perverts who can't keep together a marriage. Because it will go on for ever. I really hate these socially disfunctional egotists who preach high standards of renunciation to newcomers.

I was speaking to a young polish married couple in my local temple. She had been initiated by some american guy. Because of this she was big into renunciation. I could see that her husband was not happy about this at all. Now her 'guru' had been married three times. This was a polish couple... Ie marriage means marriage. For life. I suspect that this guy who couldn't hack married life was in the process of messing up theirs. 

GG: Oh I got it. The guy was disbarred from sannyasa, so now let us make him the sum totals of the demigods acharya. What could go wrong? This is like many cults where the leaders are taking intoxicants ... having sex with congregation members ... but they are worshiped as Gods. This is what ISKCON has become, or it has been the whole time for 45 years. At least more people are waking up. Giriraja swami he always has his know it all grin. He does know it all, but he covers it up to save "my friends." Total contaminated from head to toes. 

Jiva Souls / DD On ISKCON Misuse of Authority / BCS ETC. 05 22

“The jiva-soul's position in the spiritual world is voluntary. Some devotees want to serve Krsna as a flower; then they become a flower there in Vaikuntha. If I want that "As a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna," he becomes a flower, voluntarily, and he can change his position, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." SP Melb, Australia May 20, 1975

==========

DD: Cataloguing the Serious ISKCON Leadership Failures that Warrant Significant and Urgent Leadership Reform:

Great acaryas like Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura Prabhupada and his disciple Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada launched institutions as vehicles to systematically propagate Krishna consciousness all over the world - despite the risks that often plague institutions (corruption, the ambitions of the power-hungry and malintentioned, red tape, etc.). Both conceived of institutional governance being carried out by a collective body of devotees rather than a single acarya.

The Gaudiya Math did not implement such a model and tensions broke out between rival contenders for being the sole ultimate acarya of the institution. In the opinion of Srila Prabhupada, this fratricidal war directly led to the break up of the Gaudiya Math into disconnection factions.

Witnessing that tragedy, Prabhupada sought to establish the Governing Body Commission during his lifetime where he could oversee it. In the Direction of Management - the paper he wrote to establish the GBC - he described safeguards that might prevent the GBC from losing its way (and efficacy) as ISKCON's ultimate managing authority. Some argue that Prabhupada walked away from deploying such safeguards - such as voting and term limits. But does that mean he altogether rejected that there was any need for safeguards?

He stood the entire GBC down at least once - when he was worried about irregularities in the ways that meetings were being held and decisions made. Now that Srila Prabhupada is no longer physically present, is there a legitimate "circuit breaker" that can be deployed when worrying conduct, decision making or governance oversights become apparent?

Here is an initial list of worrying failures by the GBC which are having a seriously detrimental impact on the healthy growth of the Society.... It is by no means a comprehensive list. Feel free to add additional concerns in the comments.

*** The alienation of a sizeable portion of the Society's membership via misuses of power, hypocrisy, "renunciants" living "high on the hog", leadership falldowns, corruption, immorality, a lack of spiritual vitality or simply plain neglect;

*** horrendous failings to keep safe, properly educate and engage the next generation (those being born in the movement) - including turning a blind eye to abuse, colluding with abusers to hush up reporting, downplaying, keeping abusers in prominent positions, bypassing with scriptural citations.

*** unnecessarily harsh and heavy-handed dealings with members of other sangas - including serious ad hominem attacks and aparadhas

*** total confusion as to how the disciplic succession is meant to work - including conflicts of interest with "gurus" wielding undue influence over the GBC (and this didn't stop with the dismantling of the "zonal acarya system"), 

*** flip-flopping on whether or not Vaisnavis can initiate, 

*** enforced reinitiations, 

*** the contentious "guru approval system", 

*** discrepancies between expectations arising from scriptural descriptions and real life examples - including even matters of moral decency.... (a failure to reliably instil sraddha - the foundation of healthy spiritual progress).

There are likely many more. Recently, we evidenced the massive crisis of faith that the Vaisnava community has with the GBC. We might also mention things like financial transparency, perceived spiritual advancement and even siddhantic clarity.

Would any of these factors pass muster in Srila Prabhupada's eyes? From my perspective, these would each represent grounds to stand down the current GBC and to undertake immediate and significant reform. But evidently the GBC is not open to doing such a thing voluntarily - and perhaps refuses to recognise just how grievously it has deviated from the course Prabhupada hoped and intended for it. So what options does that leave us? A coup? Persistent humble petitioning? Just waiting patiently for the inevitable complete unravelling?

It is becoming increasingly obvious that the members of the GBC have neither the requisite competence nor character to stop the rot. In fact, it might even be observed that they can still enjoy privilege, power and the attendant perks - whilst "Rome burns".

In the meantime, we will continue to rally support for a healthy way of operating regardless.

==========

PM: They would only give up their positions of power if they were actually humble vaisnavas. The proud and the corrupt will keep their positions of power by any means. They will even look to how they can solidify and strengthen their positions of power . . .

AM: Ostentatious display.

DD: Sivarama has had major health problems for a few days..... Trampling hearts hasn't brought luck

FR: Be advised that the GBC failed to keep even the first generation safe and protected. They just pushed them away and caused them horrible hardships. Then they caused horrible hardships for the children. Then distributed the stolen wealth of ISKCON amongst themselves -- all Srila Prabhupadas inheritance -- and used it for their convenience. They just replaced him and tried to rule according to their whims and speculations. They all failed shamelessly.

BA: *PLEASE NOTE THERE IS NO VAISHNAV NINDA OR VAISHNAV APARADH IN FOLLOWING ARTICLE AND ALL ARE FACTS WIDELY KNOWN AND PUBLISHED IN MEDIA about how ISKCON wasted money suing Bangalore over a bus*

*READ IN FULL AND ASK YOUR LEADERS*

*SHAME ON ISKCON KOLKATA*

*PREVENT MISUSE OF ISKCON MONEY*

https://m.timesofindia.com/.../articleshow/100362368.cms

Hare Krishna,

ISKCON was founded by founder Acharya Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta swami Praphupada almost 60 yrs ago following on the footsteps of Chaitanya mahaprabhu who said 'JARE DEKHO TARE KAHO KRISHNA UPADESH' to propagate name of Krishna and thus save them from miseries of the material world.

*Iskcon's principal objective is to spread love and compassion while preaching Krishna's eternal messages to mankind*

But alas, so called followers in leadership positions in Iskcon are doing something else thus hurting Praphupada who considered Iskcon his body. They are imposing false frivolous mailicious cases on others resulting in protracted costly court battles thus wasting crores of donations collected from common people like me in the name of Krishna.

It is indeed shameful that those preaching Bhagwad gita and spreading message of Krishna and sitting on high pedestals of morality indulge in such shameful immoral acts.

They always talk of Vaishnav aparadh but are committing same repeatedly.
I know about at least one more false case of crpc 107 foisted by same people on one innocent devotee full time resident of mayapur who has to spend huge sum of money to defend himself in kolkata magistrates offices and suffer immeausarable mental agony. To know his name and contact details please contact me directly.
Recently one adverse decision with scathing comments was passed by supreme court of india on 19th may 2023 against kolkata temple and penalty imposed for instituting a false case.

Please remember these facts will be etched in memory of people and they will think twice before donating to iskcon as they now know that their donations are being spent on legal fees of false cases and unnecessary things. Next time when somebody from iskcon asks us to donate money we will ask them where is our money going, for harassing innocent people in false legal cases? for legal fees? for paying penalty?

Those responsible for this and other false cases must accept moral responsibility, pay the legal fees and penalty from their own pocket. They should either step down from all posts of ISKCON by themselves if they have any shame left or else be removed by GBC or beareau ,higher administration of ISKCON.

SC pulls up Iskcon Kolkata for filing false case against Iskcon Bengaluru; imposes Rs 1 lakh cost | India News - Times of India

TIMESOFINDIA.INDIATIMES.COM

==============

PDD: I knew numerous disciples [Indian bodied professionals] of Bhakti Caru Swami through the Namhatta programs in New Dvarka, Los Angeles, back in the latter 1980's and earlier 90's, and NONE of them knew ANYTHING about the ritvik system of initiation. They all considered BCS their diksa guru, they all said their pranams to him, not to Srila Prabhupada.

As a matter of fact, me telling them about Srila Prabhupada's arrangement for ritvik initiations to be performed after His departure got me banned from the Namhatta programs.

Fortunately several of those Indian gentlemen ended up rejecting BCS as their spiritual master, and they then considered Srila Prabhupada their diksa guru!

"I am only initiating you on behalf of Srila Prabhupada" was / is the 'pick-up' line of many of ISKCON's gurus, including Radhanath [they just want to appear humble] with NONE of those new initiates being told that they are disciples of Srila Prabhupada.

And as far as the worldwide -- outpouring of love towards His Holiness Bhakti Charu Swami -- goes, those prahus [and I know some of them] who had been swindled out of their lives savings through one of BCS business scams -- they felt quite to the contrary!

=================

PADA: The ex-gurukulis students? The GBC does not protect these children -- is an understatement. They more often than not -- "protect" the abusers of children, not the children. And that is why we were banned, exiled, called ill names, removed, shunned, chased with bats, my friends were sued, some of my friends had their lives ended, and mine would have been ended -- except the FEDS were tapping their phones -- and the Berkeley PD was notified. 

And they put undercover cops on my tail, and then arrested the three "enforcers" they sent to get me, for Federal crimes conducted while crossing state lines. Yes, not protecting children is an understatement -- that only partially explains what actually happened. The GBC enforces their child abuse program with very strident measures, up to and including, taking the lives of whistle blowers. 

And my kids ex-kuli friends, many of whom live here in the Bay Area, said -- the GBC does not know -- who we are, where we are, what happened to us, how what happened to us has affected us, or even -- if we are alive or dead. They never cared about us all along and they still do not. Moreover, they are happy we vanished, that makes one less problem they have to deal with while they are out shopping at Cartier's for a new Rolex watch. ys pd

PADA: I was at a big meeting of maybe 50 devotees in the mid 1990s [who claimed they were coordinating their program with Hrdayananda's] and when I said that we need to address the molesting problem, they said "oh yeah, we know all about you, you just want another Nuremberg trial." I said, "umm yep, at the very least, you got it." 

This was not only an "attitude problem" among many leaders, many rank and file shared that view. One of the children of those devotees was ordered to take initiation from one of these gurus [every single kid was molested in his guru school] and that child [now grown up] said to me later on, "our parents never told us any of this, we were misinformed. They should have paid attention to what you were saying, and what the victim kids were saying at the time." One media person told me this all sounds like "mass hysteria." ys pd

=================

WELL IT IS A START ... YEP, WHAT ABOUT THE BHAKTI KIDS? AND WHAT KIND OF CRAP WILL WE HAVE TO GO TRHOUGH IF WE TAKE BIRTH AS ONE OF THEM IN FUTURE? MAYBE LETS SOLVE THIS NOW, BEFORE WE ARE ONE OF THEM OURSELVES. angel108b@yahoo.com

Misusing Power / Free Will / + VIDEOS / 05 21

PADA: The right use of power is first of all, to not enable corrupt people to take over our society and create a haven for crooks, criminals, molesters and deviants posing as our messiahs, and our children's messiahs. Otherwise, we are implicated in the downfall of our society and the resultant abuse of victims etc. 

Self-evidently, the children of ISKCON were not properly protected because the people with [especially] managerial powers have mis-used those powers to protect the wrong system, and they suppressed us and / or attempts at correcting their deviant system. 

And these types of problem persists because many of the abusers / or their enablers are still floating around in many cases, because the -- powers that be -- have not corrected the issue. Therefore it is up to us to apply our powers to correct all this, at least to what extent we can. If nothing else, we can vote with our feet and withdraw support.

For example, the Euro GBC officially banned Lokanath, but his devotees are still placing his photos on the altars in Europe. He should not be worshiped by children, therefore, let us put his photo on the altar -- and have our children worship him. That means we are empowering the problem. That is misusing power.

AD: Can anyone explain to me why should the GBC ban a person for being a child molester, not visiting, but at the same time allowing his followers to put his photo on temple altar and worship him as good as God? I saw yesterday in local so called temple here in EU his photo direct next to SP. 

Why banned to come, but allowed to be worshiped as good as God? This smells like mundane politics to me and has nothing to do with children protection or statement about the official GBC rules in ISKCON / Iskcon EU or beyond. If we should not worship child molesters, that should be applicable worldwide and not one area, and then they do not even follow in that one area. This is all politics and hypocrisy, one of the elements of Kali Yuga.

ys pd angel108b@yahoo.com

===========

Syamasundara dāsa: Freud also investigated the problem of anxiety, which he said was produced when the impulses of the id threaten to overpower the rational ego and the moral superego.

Śrīla Prabhupāda said: Anxiety will continue as long as one is in the material condition. No one can be free from anxiety in conditioned life.

Syamasundara dāsa: Is it because our desires are always frustrated?

Śrīla Prabhupāda said: Yes. Your desires must be frustrated because you desire something that is not permanent. Suppose I wish to live forever, but since I have accepted a material body, there is no question of living forever. Therefore I am always anxious that death will come. I am afraid of death, when the body will be destroyed. This is the cause of all anxiety: acceptance of something impermanent as permanent.

The Journey of Self-Discovery-His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda

=============

FREE WILL

PADA: Someone was mentioning to me that many devotees lost their ability to discriminate, and thereby -- essentially lost their free will, by surrendering to the false GBC gurus. And because many devotees had low self-esteem, and / or a general lack of motivation to act independently, the GBC exploited them and got them to sign onto the false guru process. 

However, a devotee has to maintain one's free will and act independently, or one can get sucked into all sorts of deviations. This also explains why so many people knew children were getting treated badly -- perhaps even brutally -- but they would not go to the police. They could not discriminate proper action, and did not realize that their inaction was in fact -- de facto -- a type of action, or lack of reaction, which has been enabling further abuse.  

We cannot simply give up our freedom to act independently to a false authority, or we lose our freedom, that is what we concluded. 

ys pd 

angel108b@yahoo.com

A Devotee: ON FREE WILL

The correct understanding of free will, surrender and genuine loving voluntary exchanges and reciprocation between devotees, is not maturely understood during these early pioneering years within ISKCON.

The subject of free will, surrender and loving exchanges is often misunderstood, ignored or overlooked. Many over the years have foolishly claimed that "surrendering" to Krsna means giving up your "free will" and self expression in the spiritual world, and let Krsna do all the thinking for you eternally like a puppet is controlled be strings.

I eventually learnt that such mindless philosophy was dangerous nonsense because if we have no free will, then we are no better than dead stone and such philosophy is really impersonalism. The following quotes are from Srila Prabhupada regarding surrender, free will and love: -

Srila Prabhupada - "If you have no free will, then you are a stone. The stone has no free will. You want to be stone? Then you must have free will. But don't misuse your free will. But don't try to become stone either. That is not life." (Aug 5, 1976, New Mayapur France)

Srila Prabhupada - "Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force, no, Krsna does not want to become a lover like that, You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!" (Washington DC July 8, 1976)

Srila Prabhupada - "Unless there are two persons, where is the question of love?" (Teheran, Iran, Aug 9th, 1976)

Real love or Bhakti is a two-way street based on selfless devotion to God.
Loving expressions on the highest level is achieved by volunteering to work or serve in Krsna's plan under the instructions of a His bonafide spiritual master.
And by helping the spiritual Master bring back all the fallen jiva-souls trapped in this mundane material creation, and encourage them to return back home, back to Godhead.

Choosing to serve the servants of the servants of the servants of Krsna is the highest expression of selflessness and love of God. But first one must understand who they really are as an individual jiva-soul, which is NOT the material bodily vessel they are covered by within the material world, but the eternal individual jiva-soul (spiritual personality) within the material body.

In their full spiritual bodily potential, the jiva-souls are eternal servants of God (Krsna), who perpetually have free will in the spiritual world that had no beginning point and will never end. Each jiva-soul eternally have their own independent unique individual identity and personality separate from Krsna's Personality eternally. 

Loving relationships are always a "two-way" street based on reciprocation, loving exchanges and voluntary participation in the Kingdom of God. The expression of real love or service is never a slave domineering mindless one-way "master/ slave servant" relationship in the spiritual world that only destroys one's free will, sense of individual personality (self) that allows one to voluntarily offer their choices, and select who they want to be in both Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana.

In the spiritual world ALL relationships with Krsna are "equally blissful to each other", just like one may like a carnation flower while others may choose to like a rose flower.

Srila Prabhupada - “The jiva-soul's position in the spiritual world is voluntary. Some devotees want to serve Krsna as flower; they become flower there. If I want that "As a flower I shall lie down at the lotus feet of Krsna," he becomes flower, voluntarily, and he can change his, from flower to human body. That is spiritual life. There is no restriction. If some devotee wants to serve Krsna as cow, he serves Krsna as cow, as calf, as flower, as plant, as water, as ground, field, or as father, as mother, as friend, as beloved, anything. It is inconceivable, yet a fact." (SB Canto 6 Ch 1 text 1-4 - Melb, Australia May 20, 1975)

The individual jiva-souls are collectively known as Krsna's “marginal energy.”
This marginal energy or potency is NOT some place in the Spiritual Sky where the jiva-souls have originated from, no, the marginal potency or realm, who ARE the jiva-souls, have NO origin.

The individual jiva-souls are everywhere in both the spiritual and material worlds and always have existed without having any origin nor will they ever cease to be.
The word "marginal" simply means the jiva-souls are under the influence of either the spiritual energy, or the material energy.

Marginal means in-between.

In actual fact, the jiva-souls are in-between the spiritual energy (realm) and the material energy (realm), this is why they are called marginal (in-between). So, clearly the marginal potency is NOT a place where jiva-souls come from, the marginal potency ARE the individual jiva-souls who were never created and have no origin, nor will they ever cease to be as Bhagavad Gita As It Is explains. Many have misunderstood these facts about what "marginal" really means. It is NOT some place in outer space jiva-souls are generated from.

Being “generated” from the marginal plane does NOT mean the jiva-souls “originated” from some "so called place" in the Brahmajyoti or Spiritual Sky, including tatastha-sakti and the impersonal brahmajyoti that foolish sangas (religious cults) and their nonsense guru's foolishly claim.

Being "marginal" means in-between and includes having free will, or having the choice to be influenced by the spiritual energy (the jiva-souls nature position and full potential) or influenced by the material energy (unnatural conditioned state)
As said above, the real meaning of "marginal" means the jiva-souls can choose to be influenced by either the spiritual energy, or the material energy based on their free will.

There is no origin to the individual jiva-souls, they are eternally parts and parcel of Krsna and just as old as Krsna.

Srila Prabhupada – “The jiva-souls are Krsna's marginal energy. Marginal energy means we can live either in this external energy or in the internal energy, in between. So at the present moment we are living in the external energy. But this external energy is also Kṛṣṇa's energies, God's energy. It is not different from Him. But the external energy means we are captivated by the external energy. 

But the external energy is not permanent. The internal energy is permanent. The spiritual world is permanent, and the jiva-souls are also permanent as Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 20 (1983 edition) reveals.” (Lecture on BG 9.4 - Melb, Australia April 23, 1976)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 20 explains the jiva-souls have existed for “infinity”

This means, just like Krsna, they are beginning less and endless, and were NEVER created-

Bhagavad Gita - “For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.” (BG, Ch 2 text 20 “corrected” 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 12 also confirms the jiva-souls were NEVER created. This is because they have no origin and have existed for infinity like Krsna has, as Krsna explains-

Bhagavad Gita - “Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.” (BG 2.12)

Srila Prabhupada – “There are no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how can there be new souls?” (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 7/9/1970)

There is no origin to Krsna's marginal energy (an unlimited number of individual jiva-souls), who have existed for as long as Krsna has existed which is eternity.
Therefore, jiva-souls do NOT originate from the so called marginal plane if one thinks it is some place.

The "jiva-souls," who naturally belong in the spiritual energy (Goloka-Vrindavana) as individual spiritual PERSONS with Krsna, are called "marginal living entities" because they are influenced by either the spiritual energy or the material energy explained as follows by Prabhupada.

Srila Prabhupada – “The jiva-souls are Krsna’s marginal energy. Marginal energy means the jiva-souls may be under the control of the spiritual energy, or they may be under the control of material energy. But when the jiva-souls are under the control of the material energy, that is their precarious condition, struggle for existence. And when they are under spiritual energy, that is their original position and life of freedom.” (Los Angeles, Nov 23, 1968)

Srila Prabhupada - "We (the jiva-souls) are marginal energy (jiva-souls) Marginal means sometimes internal, sometimes external. When we are under the internal energy, that is our normal life, and when we are under the external energy, that is our abnormal life. Therefore, we are called marginal energy (jiva-souls); we can be either this way or that way. But being qualitatively one with the purusa, our tendency is to remain in the internal energy. Being in the external energy is our artificial attempt." (Letter to Lilavati, Allston, Mass 25 April, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada - "The material energy, called as Maya, is also one of the multipotencies of the Lord, as much as we (the jiva-souls) are also marginal potency of the Lord. The living entities (jiva-souls) are described as superior energy than matter, when the superior energy is in contact with inferior energy, it becomes an incompatible situation. But when the supreme marginal potency (jiva-souls) are in contact with the spiritual potency, Hara, it becomes the happy, normal condition of the living entity." (The Happening Album, New York City, Dec 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - "You are also energy; you are marginal energy (jiva-soul). Marginal energy means you (the jiva-souls) may be under the control of the spiritual energy or you may be under the control of material energy—your marginal position. But when you are under the control of the material energy, that is your precarious condition, struggle for existence. And when you are under spiritual energy, that is your life of freedom." (Intro BG, As It Is, Los Angeles, Nov 23, 1968)

Of course in the material creation there is almost no free will while trapped in the species of material life, there is only the instinct of eating, sleeping, mating, defending.

The human species are also directed by karmic reactions (the reactions to their pious and impious actions) because in the human material bodily form the living entities are responsible for their actions good or bad.

Real freedom or free will only fully exists in Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.
Understanding free will and one's eternal individual right to make their own choices and contributions in the spiritual world, is the constitutional make up of all marginal living entities (jiva-souls)

No two jiva-souls are the same, each has their own unique individual personality, sense of self, character and personality when engaging in loving exchanges with Krsna.

In Goloka-Vrindavana there must always be reciprocation between the jiva-soul and Krsna. Loving exchanges must always exist, so the jiva souls naturally express their own unique personality and sense of independent self while choosing to serve Krsna.

The fact is each jiva-soul has their own unique individuality that eternally allows them to make their own personal offerings and choices while serving Krsna or Visnu in the spiritual world.

Such free will is the basic make up and foundation of every marginal living entity's (jiva-soul) unique independent character and personality in both Goloka-Vrindavan and Vaikuntha.

Otherwise without free will one is just dead stone Srila Prabhupada tells us.
Srila Prabhupada - "Because you are Son of God you have got independence, full independence, you have acquired the quality of your father. You have got little independence. So God does not interfere with your little independence." (Melb, Australia June 25, 1974)

Srila Prabhupada - "In Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me. Is it love? You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? So Krsna does not want to become a lover like that."(Washington D.C. July 8, 1976)

Srila Prabhupāda - "Unless there are two persons, where is the question of love? Love means two persons, there is exchange. Giving something, taking something, feeding something and to eat something, and speaking everything, no secrecy, and to know everything of the other person. When these things are transacted, then there is love. I must deal with you open-hearted, you must deal with me open-hearted, then there is love. So if you want to love Kṛṣṇa, God, then these things must be there." (Evening Darsana, Aug 9, 1976, Tehran)

This eternally existing spiritual social code of free will, that includes an independent sense of a self and individuality, is the eternal constitution of all individual jiva-souls and is part and parcel of their character and personality.
Each jiva-soul has these attributes without beginning or end and is part of every marginal living entities (jiva-souls) eternal constitution.

This allows the jiva-soul to personally always be aware that they are a unique individual independent person while serving Krsna, being different from all other living entities in the Spiritual Sky.

Free will means it is the jiva soul's choice of how to they want surrender and serve Krsna, or even not surrender if they choose however, the majority of jiva-souls, over 90% of jiva-souls never make that foolish choice and enter the temporary decaying material creation.

Srila Prabhupada - "We have got the propensity to love. Love means somebody else. Love cannot be done or love cannot be executed with only one, there must be another one. I love somebody; somebody loves me, there must be lover, there must be beloved, and the transaction, then love." (Lecture SB Canto 1 Ch 2 text 6, Delhi, Nov 12, 1973)

Love can only exist when there are two involved in loving exchanges.

Srila Prabhupada - "The impersonalist philosophy is oneness. So how can there be love with just one? Is it possible? Have you got any such experience? Love means one? No. Love means two. There must be two, the lover and the beloved. Kṛṣṇa is already lover. He's so lover of you that He's trying to get you back. That is Kṛṣṇa's attempt. "Please, My dear boy, or My dear friend, My dear servant." (Lecture on SB Canto 2 Ch 1 text 3, Paris, June 12, 1974)

The jiva-soul in both Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, never lose their free will, which means their own individual ability of self expression when choosing to offer their own personal contributions that is unique to each of the individual jiva-soul or jiva-tattva.

Each jiva-soul in their full natural ''svarupa'' potential in the spiritual world's of Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana, has this eternal marginal quality of free will and independent personality, which is part and parcel of the jiva-souls perpetual constitutional makeup.

In this way, each of jiva-soul has their own individual identity, character, personality, likes and dislikes and being one of kind in the Spiritual Sky, independent from all other jiva-souls and Kṛṣṇa.

All individual jiva-souls are different, each has their own unique individual personality, character and independent identity. This eternally existing makeup or constitution of each jiva-soul, is without any beginning or ending point, and is part and parcel of every marginal living entities (jiva-souls)

This allows the jiva-soul to "personally" always be aware of their own individuality and independent nature while serving Krsna in their very best way, that is different from all other living entities in the Spiritual Sky.

This is a very important point to understand as we progress and mature in our Krsna Consciousness. The relationship between Krsna and the jiva-soul is never one-sided, never forced, never impersonal, it is always reciprocal, nurturing, personal and voluntary, in a mood of good exchanges and feelings, only then can there be real love.

Srila Prabhupada - "Free will means that you can act wrongly. That is free will. Unless there is chance of doing wrong or right, there is no question of free will. Where is free will then? If I act only one sided, that means I have no free will. Because we act sometimes wrongly, that means free will."

Hayagriva - "A man may know better but still act wrongly."

Srila Prabhupada -"Yes, but that is "free will". He misuses his. Just like a thief, he knows that his stealing, it is bad, but still he does it. That is free will. He cannot check his greediness, so in spite of his knowing that he is doing wrong thing—he will be punished, he knows; he has seen another thief, he was punished, he was put into prison— everything he knows, but still he steals. Why? Misuse of free will. Unless there is misuse of free will, there is no question of free will." (Excerpt from: Philosophy Discussions Srila Prabhupada about Rene Descartes)

Bali Mardana - "An example of free will is someone can choose Kṛṣṇa or turn away? Is that an example of free will?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, because if you accept Kṛṣṇa, then you must follow what Kṛṣṇa says. If you don't follow Kṛṣṇa, then what is the use of talking of Kṛṣṇa? If he accepts Kṛṣṇa, he must abide by the injunction of Kṛṣṇa."
(Morning Walk, Jan 22, 1974, Hawaii)

Srila Prabhupada - "So, unless there is a possibility of misusing our free will, there is no question of freedom." (Dialectical Spiritualism, Critique of Descartes).