These revelations may be the single most significant act since the Gurukuli court case. We may be at the dawn of a spiritual revolution within the ISKCON society off immense proportion. This time it is not to bring about a change in the misdirected and cheated human society, but to the cheated and abused members of the very movement that was meant to save the world, the International Society for Krishna Consciousness.
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DD: Bhima's is a truly heartbreaking testimony.
SB: Great that Bhima Karma is talking about his abuse publically, hope to see more Gurkuli testimonies too. Does anyone have a picture of the Chakravarthi that Bhima refers to? Is he still alive?
MK: Bhima says Chakravarty is very much "alive" AND is a "respected senior disciple of Srila Prabhupada" in ISKCON!! He said "no one knows his name," which I take to mean, "no one knows his legal name", so people could be warned about him! (I hope it doesn't mean he may have changed his devotee name as a cover!)
Yes, we should ALL know where he is! AND he ... along with all these other perpetrators should be brought to justice!! We owe it to these children!
SB: We really need a photo of him up here!! So is Chakravarthi, not the correct initiated name? We can't find out who is from his initiated name?
BK: You can see his profile here on FB <Chakravarty Das>. The creator of "Kids Court" - the former headmaster of the New Vrindavana Gurukula, after Sri Galim was moved aside due to allegations of sexual and physical abuse to kids and family members.
This is the way ISKCON dealt with things often - just move them aside, without any correction of the structure which created the symptoms or correction of the individual or protection for others. These same tactics are still employed and the deeper issues are still prevalent in ISKCON culture today.
So i am trying to do my part to rectify the culture and protect sincere people from being ignorantly swept up and mislead by ISKCON and others using Sri Krsna as "bait" and then presenting this tainted culture as "Krsna Consciousness".
SB: https://www.facebook.com/chakravarty.das is this him?
DL: yes
MKP: Oh, that sweet boy deserved so much better. Hugs.
MK: Thank you Bhima Karma, for speaking up about some of the horrendous things you had to endure as a child! I commend you for your courage in facing all the obstacles that must have been there to do this! Yet I know you have only revealed a minute amount of the actual trauma you experienced! And we, as empathetic listeners, can only assimilate a miniscule amount of that horror.
Unfortunately, as you said, we will need to hear more; we will need to learn more in order to open our eyes to the magnitude of this horror; not just from you, but from every child that is brave enough to speak out. A jury needs to hear the complete testimony of the victims to be able to give a proper verdict; a judge needs to hear all the details of a crime so that he can give an appropriate punishment...and to the responsible parties involved.
In order for the general devotees to be awakened to the gravity of these offenses, we need to be made more aware so that our resultant outrage can be turned into some positive action... appropriate repercussions for the offenders and precautions for the future. We need to be able to rid this Society of these very sick and evil people so these things don't happen again.
I pray that your story will be the kindling wood for a big fire to burn up all this iniquity. And I pray that Krsna will bless you for attempting to share your story for the benefit of Srila Prabhupada's Society. Hare Krsna.
SB: Madhavi Khurana Forgive my ignorance, I am a bit confused, were testimonies not heard in court, the one where 9.5 million was awarded? I still have so much to understand....
MK: My ignorance also, Prabhu. I don't know if he was a part of that court case and if he got any retribution. My comments were meant to be an example ... that we, like a jury need to know as much as we can so we can take appropriate action. Maybe we all need to take the time to read all the testimonies from that case; I for one have not done that...
SB: This is some info I found:
1. https://surrealist.org/jpgs/complaint_state.pdf
2.https://surrealist.org/gurukula/timeline/rochfordpaper.html
3.https://surrealist.org/gur.../articles/abusearticles.html...
4.http://www.iskcon-truth.com/CHILD-MOLESTERS-GURUS.html...
(last one comes with a warning to the reader)
MK: Thank you; I need to take the time and become more familiar with all that's come to light in the past.
SF: This gathering of sadists who joined or stayed just so they can freely exercise their power over children- just for their pleasure; all of this didn't happen -- and kept happening over and over -- in a vacuum. Or on isolated experimental colony with no witnesses. Or on another distant planet, where it was impossible to get information from or intervene to quash it. Yet, we are supposed to keep pretending that it did happen under everyone's noses with no one noticing.
MK: Yes, my next questions were going to be: Who else knew about all this? Were these "gay Canadians" all imported by Kirtanananda to fill out his pedophile ring? From what I'd heard, Radhanatha was Keith Hamm's right hand man; Bhakti Tirtha was his left.
So you mean to say they didn't know anything about all these goings on?! What about Kuladri and his wife? He was the temple president back then, wasn't he? He didn't have any inkling that all these things were extant under his watch? Where does the buck stop? Who is to blame for either neglect of duty or turning a blind eye to these crimes against humanity? Or were they also involved at some level?!
SF: (as ESOL speaker), I cannot quite understand everything he says, (despite captions, as captions is a bit anarchic on You tube); but WHO was his dad who got kiiled? And was his brother or friend who was accidentally frozen in freezer room?
CLP: We will go into that in the next podcast. But his father was chakradhari das who’s life was taken by Tirtha under the sanction of kirtananda das. His brother was Radheya who unfortunately got stuck in a freezer with another young boy and died, just a few months prior to the father being killed.
SF: I didn't know much about that, and i am not disagreeing with you. It is not here (where I am) safely to publicly talk about certain things, either, IMO. (But some things can be safe to " whistleblow" about in Europe , and vice - versa). I didn't know many details about New Vrindavana; especially Sulocana, till I saw that Doktorski guy on You tube.
I didn't at first quite follow- that it can be THAT bad about some Swamis ; (nor I can verify authenticity; OBV. Of everything he says). But also a bit sceptical about some details but lots of his statements do make sense. Especially if we look at things (and people ), how Police Inspector would.
How I understood Doktorski; allegedly, it seems to me that one of the reasons for removal of Sulocana was his attempts of whistleblowing / raising awareness of Kirtananda's crimes, including pedophilia.
I know a witness who was new young bhakta just around the time of Kirtananda's final - fall / removal, and still people, allegedly, approached him for literal, actual attempt to recruit him in conspiracy to commit murder. Driven by sastric excuse of : " if you hear offence to great Vaisnava , you should either kill yourslef or offender ". I also heard such indirect threats before. Usually before final fall or some Gurus, long ago. Or whistle blowing attempts recently.
Another horrifying exmple of ganging- up against whistleblowerd no matter how imperfect he might have seemed, he was often not wrong; was when Hanuman prabhu from Croatia passed away. He was only critic of "mediocre " sanyas " etiquette " and standards there.
When he passed away, just fresly died, matajis who seemed IMHO could benefit from rabbies shot; stopped so low to attack his grieving wife. All over Hanuman's internet blogs. (I dont agree with all he said either - seeing his tendency to merge pedophilia with homosexuality in case of Kirtananda); and some of his extreme patriarchal statements. But, Hanumans wife had nothing to do with his You Tube page / blog.
DL: Please don't contribute to the silence of survivors, however good-intentioned your words may be. There is no need for a separate group. Victims are allowed to speak their minds here. Thank you for your suggestion, but not necessary.
Victims are allowed to share whatever they choose. It is their perogative. Sulochan also had children. Therefore his case is also relevant to child protection.
SF: "I am not afraid of him ... I am afraid of his followers " was one of the comments during Manson murders trials.
I understand very well that it can be hard for discioles if their gurus are implicated in something unsavory / perceived to be so ; and some people also believe that one can even "GET KARMA " for publicising it, EVEN when actually true - the logic behind it being that it will hurt innocents' feelings and potentially even wreck their K.C.
To me it is sad, it reminds me of how some of our local women just did NOT want to know that husband is serial adulterer, in order to avoid divorce "for the sake of children ". But I understand sometimes denial is the only shelter.
Also, I think some followers can be very un-realistic and become extremely defensive while in denial, stages of grief. I also perosnally did not report something when I suspected it. It was with karmis. I DID try. But I didn't push it enough.
It's as because of the whole my mixed ethnicity and ethnicity of "suspect" pedophile, but mainly I wanted to spare my mother when she was still alive of very likely reprisal. Plus mother of the girl was making it almost impossible - that young mother then was totally oblivious. The blind and deaf kind, thinking one is paranoid for seeing pedophile in kinda advanced grooming action with her daughter. Daughter was approx 5.
DD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdAgSTDDE6E
The Late Morning Program with Namarasa #008 - Bhima Karma
ZB: Utterly odious, wicked what was done to Bhima-Karma and all the children at Iskcon Gurukula! The criminals must pay!!
MM: Chakradhara Dasa, Charles St. Denis, Bhima-Karma Saragrahi's father. His father was murdered when he was six.
DL: His Grace Chakradhara prabhu with Srila Prabhupada, top right in white. Four children lost their father violently and suddenly. This is an act of terrible violence against those four Vaikuntha children. And of course, their mother, his mother and father and anyone who loved him.
SF: Did someone go to prison for that?
CL: Yes, Tirtha and Kirtananda to prison.
DL: Tirtha is still in prison. Kirtananda is dead.
MK: Is this Bhima Karma and his family?
DL: yes
KD: Thank you Bhima-Karma Saragrahi prabhu for your courage and integrity. It is truly an inspiration. I remember you from your visit to Auckland New Zealand some years back. I can only imagine the healing journey that you have been on in this life to be able to speak your truth and share this with the vaisnava community. One point that has come to my mind is how did the leadership not all come together as an international community in the late 80s or early 90s and give 100% commitment to healing the children, to openly declaring the atrocities and a commitment to a different future so that such a history was never repeated, to bringing, respect love and care back into the society.
How did they continue speaking lofty philosophy, parading around the world pretending nothing happened. How could they even have the audacity to write in letters that they did not know the magnitude of the abuse and allow it to continue. It was not that they were too young and naive at that point in time. The leaders were all grown adults by that time with sufficient intelligence and knowledge to do the right thing, but they chose not to. It is beyond sad. It is willful.
BKS: agreed! I think there are also more fundamental perspectives at play, as well. All of us have particular natures, and how we organize society, with regard to individual nature and skill, has a huge impact on how things will play out - putting a person in a moral and economic leadership position, who has a nature which is made to be goal oriented at the expense of emotional or even moral considerations, for example, will tend to make and maintain high level decisions and structures, which "expense" emotional and moral values for their specific desired outcome - such as making a society with many followers, they will tend to devise a social system driven by exclusive goals, which are detached from moral and emotional sensibilities.
I think we have a wake up call to adopt a deep-level orientation, which takes personal nature and qualification into primary consideration and not primarily an appointed title, post or popularity. In essence, we are suffering symptoms of the break-down of a varnashrama perspective, which we now need to restore.
I have compassion on us all and look at all of this as a set of symptoms, which can tell us how to adjust the overall structured approach so that everyone has a beneficial place in the group, where their type of nature and work is in its healthy place.
The larger modern perspectives, which are materialistic in their fundamental approach, have pervasive sway in our lives and even the way we approach a sublime, compelling, divine philosophy - of a culture. Materialistic approaches would just focus more on the physical practices, memorization of phrases etc and less on cultivation of humility, pridelessness, non-violence etc, which are non-material things which can only be cultivated consciously and personally, not by intellectual or physical processes.
Jaya Sri Krsna!
MD: According to vedic culture it is forbidden to take medicine or medications because by taking it you prevent karma to be burnt down. It is forbidden to stop or prevent any suffering because it prevent karma to be burnt down.
It is forbidden to kill anything because it mess up with karma of other living beings ( only vegetarian food offered to God's). So I do not understand why so much talk about child abuse? Isn't it just a karma from the past life which are haunting .. as per vedic philosophy .
MKA: Ignorance is no excuse
MK: So, what is the use of action of any kind? Why do we eat when we are hungry? It's "our karma" to be hungry, so why not just suffer from it and die? Your logic is completely misguided. Krsna talks about "right action" in the Gita, not "inaction". We are DEFINITELY meant to develop our moral character!
Should we all stand by and let someone be murdered in front of us?! Why is there a police force to keep people in line with the law? What are the ksatriyas meant to do? Just stand by and twiddle their thumbs?! No! The kings were considered representatives of God and meted out punishment accordingly! Krsna has 2 purposes when He appears: to PROTECT the devotees and to ANNIHILATE the miscreants!
Your statement has NO grounding in sastra at all! I'm afraid it is a concoction of your misdirected mind!
EO: Your philosophy is false and unethical. My rejection of it has not to do with Christianity and all my examples are from Shrimad-Bhagavatam. But the four legs of Dharma are the same in all religions, compassion or mercy being one of them.
In fact, your philosophy is not a religious or theistic one but simply a demoniac excuse for immorality. I understand now why Bhaktivinode Thakura explained there cannot exist immoral theists.
I wonder how widely spread that philosophy is and where is started. It appears to be the hidden cause of the past and present abuse rampant within ISKCON and the ongoing moral bankruptcy.
EO: "It is forbidden to kill because..." Similarly it is forbidden to abuse, rape, torture, or starve other living entities, especially those entrusted in your care. By doing so you mess up with not only theirs but your own karma, earning a terrible karmic punishment for yourself and further entangling yourself in the material world for innumerable lifetimes. What to speak of the mental and spiritual damage you do to both for your victims and yourself, making your heart harden and bringing yourself further away from God consciousness.
GG: These ISKCON leaders are far away from God consciousness.
LD: Yes, and the first thing for a devotee is to develop compassion.
MD: Bhima-Karma Saragrahi nice answer... Problem here is the "response" To stop karma to repeat, we supposed NOT to response but tolerate (vedic way). Unless you follow Christian way to stand up for yourself, change, solve the problem.
GG: The Vedic way is the fight Kurukshetra style.
BK: Tolerance is also a response - there is no situation where there is no response. I think if you illustrate your point more concretely it will become more clear. For example Arjuna could have just said this was his karma to have his kingdom taken and all the rest and "not respond" to then let his karma burn away.
But Sri Krsna told him to respond correctly according to his dharma, being detached from the fruit while doing his dharma. We all are being asked to play a role and to respond.
MK: "A devotee tolerates all manner of injury and abuse to himself, but ACTS LIKE FIRE when another devotee is abused or even blasphemed"! Just like Hanuman; just like Arjuna was invited by Krsna Himself to massacre the offenders! Please don't espouse your foolish, unfounded, ungrounded philosophy. It doesn't even come up to common sensibility, what to speak of Vaishnava dharma!
KD: Tolerate and forget? And just let it happen again and again? Stand in godly defiance or stand in demoniac compliance? Vaisnavas are not passivists. Here is a quote from Srila Prabhupada speaking on Bhagavada Gita in London 1973:
"Somebody was criticising me, swamaji you are introducing this Hare Krishna movement, people are becoming cowards, they simply chant Hare Krishna, so I replied that you see the power of Hare Krishna movement in due course of time. There are two big battles in history. The Battle of Kuruksetra and the battle between Ravana and Rama. In these two battles the heroes was Vaisnava and Visnu.
"So Vaisnavas they do not simply chant Hare Krishna. If there is need they can fight under the guidance of Visnu and become Victorious." To tolerate and do nothing is to allow these things to continue and if you know there is some wrong and do nothing then you are implicated in Karma. Where in the Bhagavada Gita or Srimad Bhagavatam does it say it is forbidden to take medicinal herbs? Murali Dhar Can you provide some quotes from Srila Prabhupada, Srimad Bhagavatam or Bhagavada Gita to substantiate your claim that it is forbidden to stop or prevent any suffering?
MD: I think the ashram you stayed in was just full of 'unvedic' retards and your experience and understanding of the vedic way is extremely immature. I am happy that you met a Christian who helped when you were sick.
Had you met a Ramakrishna bhakt you would also have got treated in one of the many Ramkrishna hospitals. Had you met a Vaisnava from Sri Leelanand Goswami Sampradaya you would also have received treatment from one of His hospitals. etc etc etc.
If there is suffering, Thakur also sends help to relieve it, in many ways :
1. Bharadvaja (Sanskrit: भरद्वाज,) was one of the revered Maharishi in Ancient India. He was a renowned scholar, economist, grammarian and PHYSICIAN. He is one of the Saptarishis. In the epic Mahabharata, Bharadvaja was the father of the teacher (guru) Droṇācārya, the instructor to Pandava and Kaurava princes. Bharadwaja is also mentioned in Charaka Samhita, an authoritative ancient INDIAN MEDICAL TEXT.
2. Dhanvantari (Sanskrit: धन्वन्तरि), is the physician of the devas. He is regarded to be an avatar of Vishnu. He is mentioned in the Puranas as the God of Ayurveda.
3. AyurVEDA. Recorded more than 5000 years ago. The evolution of the Indian art of healing and living a healthy life comes from the four Vedas namely : Rig veda , Sama veda , Yajur veda and Atharva veda .
Ayurveda attained a state of reverence and is classified as one of the UpaVedas - a subsection - attached to the Atharva Veda. Ayurveda deals with diseases, injuries, fertility, sanity and health.
Ayurveda incorporates all forms of lifestyle in therapy, yoga, aroma, meditation, gems, amulets, herbs, diet, astrology, colour, marma and surgery etc. are used in a comprehensive manner in treating patients.
3. The intricacies of an individual's karma are so complicated that it can only be understood by an enlighted one.
Is he suffering because of his past deeds or is he suffering because he is a Nitya Siddha who is burning the karma of the collective or using it to excel in his own awakening here on earth or to reveal to the world the futility of a system or the sin of others? No one can say, this is a secret known only to that soul and the Paramatma.
4. The only way to save Laxman's life was to bring a specific medicinal herb called Sanjeevani from the Himalayas. Hanuman, a devoted follower of Lord Rama, volunteered for this critical mission.
5. Sita was not abandoned by Rama, "Oh it is mine and Her Karma - forgive and forget! Rama was traumatised by Her plight.
6. Time and time again, due to the sins of the demons, and the suffering of the jives, the rishis, and devotees prayed to Visnu to intervene. Hence, all the Avatars, including Mahaprabhu. They didn't just sit in their blissful samadhis and say - "Oh well - forgive and forget, its the karma of the jives anyway"
7. In every battle, be it Ramayana or Mahabharat, when soldiers were wounded, they weren't just left to die, bereft of any compassion or medicine, "Oh well that's your karma, grin and bare it" If the soldiers were treated so inhumanely, no dharmic leader would ever have had an army.
8. Bhagwan is called Bhakta Vatsala (Protector of devotees), Dina Bandhu (Friend of the fallen), Koruna Sindu (Ocean of mercy)!
9. If ancient Bharati civilisation was so inhumane, devoid of compassion as you seem to suggest, it would never have been so successful, widespread and stand the test of time till the present day, against all odds with every effort to destroy it.
10. Re those brahmans/devotees you speak of in Kolkota at the time of Mother Theresa, who refused treatment, that's their choice and Sankalpa but it's not a mood reflective in ALL of Bharat or 'Vedic way" nor do those few in Kolkota that you refer to have a trademark on the 'Vedic' way.
Likewise, it's our choice or Sankalpa as devotees to foster compassion in our hearts and act accordingly, in order to purify ourselves of our OWN bad karmas and hence take us closer to the loving embrace of Bhagwan. As I say your experience of Bharat and the vedic way is EXTREMELY narrow.
11. If this court case had not been fought, then many MORE Gurukulis would have committed suicide. It HAD to be done.
And regarding money, money is nothing but the energy of Sri Laxmi, perhaps it was Her mercy that She wanted to give them some aid for treatment for their undue sufferings!
These courts and lawyers are also a part of Krsna. There is no place in any shastra where it says, grin and bare it and never get help or ask for help. To protect children is the dharma of everyone, if they have some karma to suffer, that suffering can come to them as an adult too but the whole point of a Gurukul is protection and to make children capable in every spiritual aspect, not to crush them as soon as they are born. If it did happen then it's reflective of a great flaw of the one who created that Gurukul (not the children).
Also, let's say, HAD these kids been given a fair chance and IF they did have any such terrible karma as you insinuate, it would have been cleansed by the sadhana they would have performed in a good Gurukul, and they would have continued with their sadhana and seva as adults therefore their karma would have been easily nullified.
It's one thing I detest about religionists, they think they can understand Karma by reading a few books.
Krsna is PREMA (perhaps you need to look ALOT deeper)
P.S. The 'great sadhu' you mention was neither enlightened nor that great but pretty mundane in his realisations.
AD: "Guests should be treated with utmost respect and hospitality, as they may be an embodiment of the divine and can manifest in various forms to visit individuals in different DISGUISES, such as a poor person, a beggar, a dog, a bird, or any other living being. As a result, we are encouraged to treat all living beings with kindness and compassion, recognizing the presence of the divine in every being.
It serves as a reminder to be humble, empathetic, and generous towards others. By practising kindness and sharing with others, one opens their heart to the divine presence that permeates all creation. Thus, treating every being with love and respect is considered not only a moral duty but also a way to enhance one's spiritual growth and connection with the divine.
EO: Why are you bringing all this nonsensical atheistic propaganda to the thread for dealing with abused devotee children? Who are you to say they deserved it because of their bad karma? You cannot know it nor can any bogus swami you are quoting. But what everyone can know is that the abuse was outrageous and inexcusable, as was the fact that no-one reacted and stopped it.
Any genuinely spiritual person would have developed a quality of compassion and empathy in his/her heart, at least being able to behave as a decent human being and protect young and defenceless children whenever possible.
You try to present yourself as an expert on what is Vedic, but it is just your personal interpretation of "Vedic". To be "Vedic" according to your interpretation is a terrible goal, as it will make you a monster.
You say not to interfere if you suffer, or if someone else suffers, but let them go on suffering since it is their karma. By following such an advice you create a terrible new karma for yourself and will be forced to suffer yourself without anyone helping. So your inaction is not burning your karma but rather creating new karma for yourself. And that is something you should worry about, not other people burning their karma.
Similarly if you don't try to heal yourself when sick, you neglect the gift given to you - your body, and thus create new bad karma for yourself by your "inaction". Maybe it would have been your karma to get well, if only you had made a little effort yourself and showed some gratitude for the gift of an able body capable of doing service in different ways. Maybe you will thus create a karma of getting a body in your next life which is disabled, since you did not appreciate the able body given to you in your present life.
EO: The parents should of course have been more cautious, but it does not excuse the crimes. Parents often acted in good faith following the advice or orders of their superiors like temple authorities, or gurus. Or they were taught some bogus philosophy like what you are spreading.
A murderer or rapist is not excused by a fact that his victim trusted him and was in a vulnerable position. Neither are abusers and exploiters of children and youngsters absolved by the fact that gullible parents trusted the teachers and care takers of their children.
However, as you say, just blaming is not going to change anything. You have actually contributed to understanding one of the root causes of those atrocities going on unhampered so long, by revealing an atheistic misconception about Karma, which might be common amongst members. Thank you for that!
One would expect that a member of this group would actually want to see the abuse of children stop and the perpetrators punished. They do not fit in the that category, so I'm also wondering why he is in the group. But he has made a valuable contribution by revealing an underlying misconception / deviant philosophy which might be part of the explanation of what has happened.
Your explanation of karma sucks. It is a demoniac, atheistic excuse for cruelty and criminality. Whoever helped you to develop that kind of 'understanding" of karma is representing the worst and most degraded aspects of Kali-yuga personified.
The questions needed to be asked and answered are not the ones you talk about. Those questions are for Yamaraja and Krishna Himself to ask and answer, not for you or any other human. You only have to worry about your own karma, which is rapidly worsening by your propagation of an atheistic and unethical philosophical concoction.
The relevant questions are instead about law, responsibility, ethics and morality of the perpetrators and their facilitators. Speculations about Karma of the victims are irrelevant.
AM: They are still parading around the world as if nothing happened.
KM: My former Guru, Harikesh, gave it as one of the reasons why he left Iskcon. He saw no chance, that it will change.
CY:
https://youtu.be/y2he3dzekQs
India's Religious Cult Of Prostitution
SB: Akin to the ancient Phoenician system of a high priestess. Now abused and demonic. Once considered manifestations of Goddesses, now reduced to prostitutes. Many mistranslations in this video but the overall essence is correct.
This is why any 'teachings' against women of any kind are a total disaster. These so-called 'shastras' have been manipulated by many to suit their own agendas. They are in no way the original and to think they have NOT been adulterated for 5000 years or so is plain dumb. Many Siddhas (reformers) have come and gone since.
KM: BD is talking about the headmaster Cakravarti from Germany of the school, who introduced the courtcases in the school. He is the husband of Dina Sharana dasi, the GBC for Germany, Switzerland etc.. So with these people no change will occure.
DD: Keen to listen..... it's important to bear witness to all these things
DL: Chakravarty Dasa - profile picture from 10 years ago. May be an image of 1 person and text that says 'f Chakravarty Das January 4, 2013 14 Share S.B. McKee Hey! was just talking about you yesterday. That were great ashram teacher and how ran into you the '91 Vermont Rainbow Gathering. Nice see you prabhu YS, SBD 9y Chakravarty Das Thanks for your kind words and greetings. Wish you the best. Greetings your brother and parents next time you are in with them. 9y Chakravarty Das Thank Bhakta Das... will'
DL: Dina Sharana - wife of Chakravarty and a GBC office holder.
May be an image of 1 person, temple and text that says 'The Of Website ISKCON the Governing Body Commission the nternational Society for Krishna Consciousness News Resources FAQ Multimedia Multimedia Cor Dina Sharana Devi Dasi'
EO: Dear Bhima-Karma Saragrahi I'm so terribly sorry for these atrocities you and your siblings had to endure. I wish you will be able to heal at least somewhat of the immense trauma you have suffered in the name of Krishna. I wish you a more happy future.
What chocked me most was that the abusers claimed they are doing a favour to their victims by "relieving the children of their bad karma". Speak about adding an insult to injury.
It appears to me that these perpetrators believed that by indulging in their sadistic whims, hurting and injuring children under their care, they actually acted in the capacity of Yamaraja or Krishna Himself. Is it possible to have a deeper misconception about oneself?
What kind of demoniac philosophy is that and where does it come from? Also the people who witnessed this abuse happen must have believed in such an utterly evil construction. I'm chocked. Always thought the first lesson in Vaishnavism is that you are not God, Krishna is.
Bhima-Karma Saragrahi: thank you for watching the video and for taking it seriously. Yes, one of them actually spoke this directly to me in public - that I should be grateful to him for giving me my karma and that he is just Krsna's messenger, giving me my karma.
Many people in ISKCON circles and numerous other "spiritual" communities think this way and believe people like me should just accept our karma and not respond, but just take it and do our duty and thus make spiritual progress. And even when faced with the clear example of Sri Krsna speaking to Arjuna the whole Bhagavad-Gita as a motivation to respond well, thus being an agent of balance in his own life and in the large societal scale, they hold fast to the dogma they have been indoctrinated with.
While we do need to explore these questions and reasoning thoroughly and be able to articulate a clear argument, if people are simply dogmatic and not available for a dialogue, which seeks a reasoned resolute conclusion, just cut them down like a face in the oceanic battlefield and move on to the generals.
We all have our unique "battlefields" and the main victory is that over ourselves - we must each become exemplary.
The idea of Vaishnava culture and indeed vedik perspective as a whole is to find our core values and organize our thinking, actions and emotions around them.
Jaya Sri Krsna!
EO: Bhima-Karma Saragrahi when I was a very young devotee, in the beginning of the eighties, (my initiation name is A dd), I was once challenged by my maternal grandfather who was a scholar specialized in early Christianity. He said that if a faithful Christian would meet a suffering person on his way, he would stop and try to help. But if a Hindu would encounter a suffering person, he would just walk by and let the suffering continue, because " the person who suffers has deserved it by his karma, and I have no reason to interfere". I argued it was not so, since a Hindu who believes in Karma would understand that if he did not stop his journey to help the suffering person to the best of his ability, he would commit a sin and create bad karma for himself.
Later on I understood that a spiritual, God conscious person would also have developed a quality of compassion, not being able to see suffering without trying to help.
It is sad to realize now after more than 40 years that my grandfather was right and this kind of atheistic, immoral philosophy has indeed been widely spread within ISKCON during all this time.
MA: I am beyond sad and angry and disgusted by my godbrothers ignorance and cruelty. The women were also treated in this cultish way by demonic consciousness which pervaded the whole scene. Srila Prabhupada was victim as well. He tried to give us the greatest gift and this was turned into hellish existance by the low lifes who scramblelled for positions of power and control. I wish to burn them with my eyes like King Mucukunda.
But can only weep my heart out for suffering children of this gretest offense to God and His devotees. Bless you Prabhu for teaching this hard earned lesson.
Still these people are around. We need as a society to face this and clean up our act if we want to have any standing in the world.
DL: I hear you. Thanks for articulating beautifully what many of us feel in our hearts.
