Vedic Timelines / Independent Jeevas / Symptoms of Kali (PJ) 07 10

From PJ:

The fallen jiva-souls stay dormant (inactive) in the Body of the sleeping Maha-Visnu for 311 trillion 40 billion human years after Brahma dies (who also lives for 311 trillion and 40 billion human years - [his 100 years life expectancy]).

Then eventually another Brahma is born from Garbhodakasayi Visnu deep within the new Brahmanda coming from the breathing and skin pores of Mahā-Viṣṇu.
The individual jiva-souls can stay for an almost eternity in the temporary decaying material universes in a cycle of repeated birth and death, and repeated cosmic annihilation and creation -- if they choose.

When Lord Brahma dies after 100 of his years, which is 311 trillion and 40 billion human years, there is an equal period of his life span of 311 trillion, 40 billion years where nothing living exists in this material universe, all life (the jiva-souls) in the material universe remain dormant withdrawn for that time into the Body of Karanadakashayi Visnu (Maha-Visnu) until the next Brahmanda creation.

All jiva-souls merge temporarily as "individual dormant units (sparks)" into the Body of Karanadakashayi Visnu (Maha-Visnu) and remain that way until the next creation of Brahmandas manifest from Maha-Visnu's spiritual Body.

All material bodily vessels the visiting jiva-souls receive while in the material world, are "loaned" from Maha-Visnu from His unlimited variety of dreams which includes unlimited Brahmanda universes.

All material bodily vessels are created via His dreams whom the visiting jiva-souls from Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana "borrow" from Him. Therefore, in the next new "Brahmanda creation" coming from Maha-Visnu, all the dormant jiva-souls awaken and continue on where they left off in the previous material creation inside the Brahmanda that ended 311 trillion 40 billion human years previously.

It is important to understand that Garbhodakashayi Visnu within His "secondary universe" inside the Brahmanda where Brahma had constructed the planetary systems, temporarily merges back as being one with Maha-Visnu when Brahma dies, until the next Brahmanda universes again manifests from the breathing and pores of Maha-Visnu.

The sleeping Maha-Visnu expands Himself as Garbhodakasayi Visnu, who is in each "secondary universe" with a Brahma who build the many planetary systems in his material universe. In this way, Karanadakashayi Visnu (Maha Visnu) expands Himself as Garbhodakasayi Visnu who is deep inside each Brahmanda universe. As said above, from Garbhodakasayi Visnu comes Lord Brahma, and he builds the many planetary systems, mainly 14 gradations in our material universe inside our Brahmanda.

From Garbhodakasayi Visnu's navel a lotus flower appears where Brahma is found, inside the lotus stem Brahma creates the different planetary systems. Then the dormant jiva-souls, who have been suspended in ''inactivity'' within the Body of Karanadakashayi Visnu (Maha-Visnu) for 311 trillion 40 billion human years, re-emerge and continue on (under the laws of karma) deep within the new Brahmanda creation from where they left off in the previous material creation.

Srila Prabhupada - "The entire material creation is the dream of Maha-Visnu." (SB Canto 4 Ch 29 text 83)

The jiva-souls who have fallen to the material creation due to some offense, or who have "chosen" to enter the material creation due to free will, must then "borrow" their material bodily vessels from Maha-Visnu's dreams to fulfil their desires. The "dreams" of Maha-Visnu ARE the unlimited number of material universes called Brahmandas, that come from Maha-Visnu's breathing and from the pores on His skin.

Srila Prabhupada - "We are not the owner of this body, not the owner of the senses. The senses are borrowed from the Supreme Lord. This is very subtle understanding, one should know the proprietor of the senses is God." (March 1966 NY City)

The rebellious jiva-souls that fall down from Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana, enter the impermanent material creation, known as the "mahat-tattva" via the dreams of Maha-Visnu. They do this because they have chosen to reject Visnu on the Vaikuntha planets (in an awe and reverence relationship), or Krsna in Goloka-Vrndavana (in a intimate personal relationship of lover, friend, family member etc).

It is important to understand the jiva-souls left the Kingdom of God not because of any material cause, (that cannot exist in Vaikuntha anyway) but because of misuse of "free will," or wanting to be a God instead of serving God, and therefore gave up their association with Visnu or Krsna.

Srimad Bhagavatam explains the fall down of the jiva-soul from the Vaikuntha planets and Goloka-Vrindavana to the material creation in the 4th Canto Chapter 28 text 53.

There it is explained Lord Krsna is disguised as a brahmana.

The brāhmaṇa said - "My dear friend, even though you cannot immediately recognize Me, can't you remember that in the past you had a very intimate friend? Unfortunately, you gave up My company and accepted a position as enjoyer of this material world." (SB, 4th Canto Ch 28 text 53)

The marginal living entities (jiva-souls) sometimes fall down (but less than 10%) into the material creation from Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana which are their permanent homes. The jiva-souls do NOT originate from the impersonal brahman (brahmajyoti), tatastha-sakti or the Body of Maha-Visnu. All these are fallen conditions the jiva-souls fall too once they leave Vaikuntha and Goloka-Vrindavana.

Srila Prabhupada - "Existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness - Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrindavana." (Letter to: Revatinandana, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)

One cannot stay in the Lord's eternal abode if they have chosen not to serve Him, therefore they enter the material creation, also run by Krsna via His Maha-Visnu expansion and His demigod servants, who builds the material worlds. This is how we entered the material creation in an attempt to seek out our own dreams within the "dreams of Maha-Visnu. The temporary decaying material creation takes up 1/4 of the Spiritual Sky.

The Spiritual Sky is all that there is, without beginning or end, and that also includes the smaller temporary material creation that is 1/4 of the Spiritual Sky as said above that is always in a state of decay and constant maintenance. The other 3/4s of the Spiritual Sky is the permanent spiritual worlds of Vaikuṇṭha and Goloka Vrindavana that never decays and is forever fresh (The Kingdom of God).

This temporary material creation we are in, is created from the dreams of Maha-Visnu, we have entered His material creation by choosing to enjoy separately from Krsna. We are then given material bodily vessels borrowed from Maha-Visnu's stockpile of dreams that always belong to Him and are always available for our use.

Some start out as a Brahma and many do not, this is based on their desires to live without Krsna. All facilities in the material creation are provided by Krsna (God) through His Maha-Visnu expansion.

However, there is an easy way out of this temporary material creation in this present age called Kali-yuga, and that is by becoming a devotee in Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu's great Sankirtan Movement and always chanting Hare Krsna. By properly using one's free will when possible in the human species, one can find the bonafide Spiritual Master who can lead one out of this mundane material dream creation and return to the only permanent reality of Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrndavana outside this decaying material creation.

Choosing to come to the material creation of mundane selfish dreams was our mistake.

Srila Prabhupada – "This material creation is the spirit soul’s dream. Actually all existence in the material world is a dream of Maha-Visnu, as the Brahma-Samhita describes-

"This material world is created by the dreaming of Maha-Visnu. The real, factual platform is the spiritual world, but when the spirit soul wants to imitate the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is put into this dreamland of material creation." (SB, Canto 4 Ch 29 text 83)

Srila Prabhupada - "Everything happening within time, which consists of past, present and future, is merely a dream. This is the secret in understanding in all the Vedic literature." (SB, Canto 4 Ch 29 text 2b)

Srila Prabhupada - "Our contact with matter is just like dream. Actually we are not fallen. Therefore, because we are not fallen, at any moment we can revive our Krsna consciousness, we break the dream." (Tokyo Japan 1972, SB, Canto 2 Ch 9 text 1)

Srila Prabhupada - "Factually all of material existence is only a dream. Thus there is no question of past, present or future. Persons who are addicted to karma-kanda-vicara, which means working for future happiness through fruitive activities, are also dreaming. Similarly, past happiness and present happiness are merely dreams." (SB, Canto 4 Ch 29 text 2b)

Srila Prabhupada - "The marginal living entities (jiva-souls) are NOT from the impersonal brahman. We do not accept anyone elevated to the brahman effulgence as actually liberated. Existence in the impersonal Brahmajyoti is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness and a fallen condition therefore, those who are in the brahman effulgence are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. 

"When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition and that non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness. To remain in the brahman effulgence is also another phase of that fallen condition. Those who are thinking that they are liberated by being situated in brahman effulgence are described in the Srimad-Bhagavatam as impurely intelligent. In other words, they are actually NOT liberated, and because they are not actually liberated they again come down to the material world. So, we do not accept anyone elevated to the brahman effulgence as actually liberated." (Letter to Revatinandana dasa, Los Angeles 13 June, 1970)

All jiva-souls originally came from either the Vaikuntha planets or Goloka-Vrindavana Prabhupada teaches.

The visiting jiva-souls who enter the material creation MUST obtain (hire) a material bodily vessel first from Maha-Visnu's dreams. Every material bodily vessel in the material creation is first "hired" to the jiva-souls from Maha-Visnu who owns them all.

Each individual jiva-soul in the spiritual world ALWAYS have a choice to be with Krsna or reject Krsna, otherwise free will has no meaning. It is silly immature sentimental nonsense from those gurus, sannyasis, devotees and Vedic scholars who claim the jiva-souls can never fall down from Vaikuntha or Goloka-Vrindavana.

The jiva-souls can "choose" to "voluntarily" serve Krsna in an unlimited variety of ways as an unlimited varieties of spiritual bodily forms. Or they can reject Krsna and enter the impermanent material world and experience their independent desires. And this has nothing to do with Maya or material energy because Maya does not exist in the spiritual world, nothing material can exist there but free will ALWAYS exists in the spiritual world.

Srila Prabhupada – "Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 4/25/1970)

Being “generated” from the marginal plane does NOT mean the jiva-souls “originated” from some "so called place" in the Brahmajyoti, the Spiritual Sky including tatastha-sakti and the Body of Maha-Visnu as some foolishly claim.
There are NO new jiva-souls Bhagavad Gita teaches, we are all eternal with no beginning or ending meaning the jiva-souls did not originate from from anywhere because they have ALWAYS existed.

Srila Prabhupada – "There are no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how can there be new souls?" (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 7/9/1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "We have also come down from Vaikuntha some millions and millions of years ago." (Lecture on BG, Aug 6, 1973)

Srila Prabhupada - ''These spirit souls and all spirit souls are coming from Vaikuntha." (Letter to Jagadisa das, 1970)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 20 explains the jiva-souls have existed for “infinity,” this means, just like Krsna, they are beginningless and endless, and were NEVER created-

"Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." (BG, Ch 2 text 20 “corrected” 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 12 also confirms the jiva-souls were NEVER created because they have no origin and have existed for infinity like Krsna has, as Krsna explains-

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be." (BG, Ch 2 Text 12)

First of all, being "marginal" means having the choice to be influenced by either the spiritual energy (the jiva-souls nature position and full potential in the spiritual world) or by the material energy (unnatural conditioned state)

As said above, the real meaning of "marginal" means the jiva-souls can choose to be influenced by either the spiritual energy, or the material energy based on their free will.

There is no origin to the individual jiva-souls, they are eternally parts and parcel of Krsna and just as old as Krsna.

Srila Prabhupada - "In the broader sense, EVERYONE comes from Krsnaloka (Goloka-Vrindavana). When one forgets Krsna, he is conditioned (nitya-baddha), when one remembers Krsna he is liberated (nitya-siddha)." (Letter to Mukunda, June 10, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada - "Your question about one's relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The jiva-souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at anytime, so there is always a chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence." (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 4/25/1970)

Srila Prabhupada - "Nanda and mother Yasoda are the eternal father & mother of Krsna. This means that whenever Krsna descends, Nanda and Yasoda, as well as Vasudeva and Devaki, also descend as the Lord's father and mother. Their personalities are expansions of Krsna's personal body." (SB, Canto 10 Ch 4 Text 48).

The "marginal potency" ARE the collective of individual jiva-souls who were never created, have no origin, nor will they ever cease to be as Bhagavad Gita As It Is explains. Many have misunderstood these facts about what "marginal" really means. It is NOT some place in outer space where jiva-souls are generated or originate from because they have no origin.

Srila Prabhupada – “The jiva-souls are Krsna’s marginal energy. Marginal energy means the jiva-souls may be under the control of the spiritual energy, or they may be under the control of material energy. But when the jiva-souls are under the control of the material energy, that is their precarious condition, struggle for existence. And when they are under spiritual energy, that is their original position and life of freedom.” (Los Angeles, Nov 23, 1968)

Srila Prabhupada - "Regarding your question about our relationship with Srimati Radharani, She is the internal energy, we are marginal energy. Marginal means sometimes internal, sometimes external. When we are under the internal energy, that is our normal life, and when we are under the external energy, that is our abnormal life. Therefore, we are called marginal energy; we can be either this way or that way. But being qualitatively one with the purusa, our tendency is to remain in the internal energy. Being in the external energy is our artificial attempt." 

"We (the jiva-souls) are marginal energy (jiva-souls) Marginal means sometimes internal, sometimes external. When we are under the internal energy, that is our normal life, and when we are under the external energy, that is our abnormal life. Therefore, we are called marginal energy (jiva-souls); we can be either this way or that way. But being qualitatively one with the purusa, our tendency is to remain in the internal energy. Being in the external energy is our artificial attempt." (Letter to Lilavati, Allston, Mass 25 April, 1969)

Srila Prabhupada - "The material energy, called as Maya, is also one of the multipotencies of the Lord, as much as we (the jiva-souls) are also marginal potency of the Lord. The living entities (jiva-souls) are described as superior energy than matter, when the superior energy is in contact with inferior energy, it becomes an incompatible situation. But when the supreme marginal potency (jiva-souls) are in contact with the spiritual potency, Hara, it becomes the happy, normal condition of the living entity." 

(The Happening Album, New York City, Dec 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - "You are also energy; you are marginal energy (jiva-soul). Marginal energy means you (the jiva-souls) may be under the control of the spiritual energy or you may be under the control of material energy—your marginal position. But when you are under the control of the material energy, that is your precarious condition, struggle for existence. And when you are under spiritual energy, that is your life of freedom." (Intro BG, As It Is, Los Angeles, Nov 23, 1968)

Srila Prabhupada – “The jiva-souls are Krsna's marginal energy. Marginal energy means we can live either in this external energy or in the internal energy, in between. So at the present moment we are living in the external energy. But this external energy is also Kṛṣṇa's energies, God's energy. It is not different from Him. But the external energy means we are captivated by the external energy. But the external energy is not permanent. The internal energy is permanent. The spiritual world is permanent, and the jiva-souls are also permanent as Bhagavad Gita As It Is Chapter 2 text 20 (1983 edition) reveals.” (Lecture on BG 9.4 - Melb, Australia April 23, 1976).

==============

Q: What do you mean by apocalypse?

Ask the millions of animals that are slaughtered daily in the world’s slaughter-houses, and they will tell you what apocalypse means - total destruction. Time on earth passes through a progression of four ages, lasting together 4,32 million years. During this time human society will gradually degenerate until now, in Kali-yuga, everything is degraded to the extent that knowledge of God is completely lost.

One day of Brahma consists of 1000 yuga cycles of 4,32 million years, so one of Brahma’s days lasts 4,32 billion years, and as long is his night. After each of Brahma’s days there is an apocalypse on planet earth, in which all life on the planet is destroyed.

First everything on the surface of the earth is burned to a crisp by the sun. Then, after everything is burned off, it rains day and night for thousands of years covering the whole world with a flood. That means that every 4 billion years, planet earth is covered by a flood. The idea of a world-wide flood is also mentioned in other religions. In the Vedas the exact schedule is given.

They also mention how different aquatic life-forms live in the water during that period. As the water gradually recedes, life again multiplies of earth. This apocalypse after Brahma’s day only affects planet earth. At the end of Brahma’s life, which is calculated to last 311 trillion years (the same as the universe), there is a total destruction of the entire universe.

That happens when all the universes are sucked back into the body of Maha-vishnu, when He inhales. That means, one breath of God lasts 311 trillion years. The expansion of God generating matter is called Maha-vishnu - the great Vishnu.
We can hardly imagine how big you must be if your one breath lasts 311 trillion years and universes are generated from your skin-pores.

Krishna says:

By human calculation, a thousand ages taken together form the duration of Brahma's one day (4.32 billion years). And such also is the duration of his night. (Bg. 8.17)

At the beginning of Brahma's day, all living entities become manifest from the unmanifest state, and thereafter, when the night falls, they are merged into the unmanifest again. (Bg. 8.18)

Again and again, when Brahma's day arrives, all living entities come into being, and with the arrival of Brahma's night they are helplessly annihilated. (Bg. 8.19)
Yet there is another unmanifest nature, which is eternal and is transcendental to this manifested and unmanifested matter. It is supreme and is never annihilated. When all in this world is annihilated, that part remains as it is. (Bg. 8.20)

That which the Vedantists describe as unmanifest and infallible, that which is known as the supreme destination, that place from which, having attained it, one never returns—that is My supreme abode. (Bg. 8.21)