Friday, January 31, 2020

ISKCON's Whole Problem is -- Cannabis? (NNV Nathan Zakheim)

http://krishna1008.blogspot.com/2016/01/a-loss-of-faith-in-prabhupada-and.html

PADA: First of all, we'd like to point out that over the years many ISKCON GBC guru defenders have tried to establish that the PADA editor is "a sahajiya" and is "associated with people who smoke pot and take intoxicants," thus PADA is not credible, presents false news (often eye-witness accounts from victims, newspaper articles and police records) and so on. 

Therefore! 


The complaints from us about: (A) The bogus appointment of 11 gurus; (B) The banning, beating, molesting, lawsuits and murders; (C) Changing the books; (D) The child molesting and (E) The poison complaint from Srila Prabhupada, etc. are not really valid complaints. Why? Because we are: "Liars who are exaggerating"; We are "The National Enquirer of ISKCON"; We are "writing stools" -- and so on and so forth. One of the prominent people who says PADA is a sahajiya, a liar, an offender, and is "writing stools" and so forth has been Naranarayan Das Visvakarma (NNV) / aka Nathan Zakheim.

Even my police friends say -- that process enables, empowers, facilitates and aids and abets more and more crimes. So when people say, do not listen to the people reporting the crimes because they are bogus sahajiya offenders, then the crimes will have little or no check and balance system. And that makes the crooks, perverts, molesters, embezzlers, false gurus, and poisoners of gurus -- very happy indeed because it covers their crimes, and suppresses those who oppose and expose their crimes. 

Nathan Zakheim: CANNABIS MEANS "SHIVA SHAKTI." TRANSLATION? ...... YOU LOSE EVERYTHING! INCLUDING ALL YOUR CHILDREN! SP STATES: "DO NOT IMITATE LORD SHIVA WHO DRANK THE OCEAN OF POISON BY CONSUMING CANNABIS ....... IT WILL ONLY BRING DEATH VERY NEAR"!

PADA: OK for starters, a number of Naranarayan Das' (NNV's) own family members admit to have been involved in the pot process, as well as probably thousands of other rank and file ex-ISKCON devotees. So it looks like he has not really had much success preaching on this topic. As for us personally, we find that a number of the ex-ISKCON people fall into all sorts of devious things, smoking pot being the lesser of various evils. We do not generally harass these victims for their falling away from the process -- and thus for not being able to follow strictly because -- they are refugee victims.

I know of many victims, for example various ISKCON parents whose children were molested. And some of them ended up currently being very ill with very dangerous ailments. Some of them ended up taking intoxicants. And some of them are simply dead from all the stress of the post 1977 ISKCON society. 

And thus we credit most of their problems as due largely to "trauma." And some of them now have a very rocky relationship with their children because of all the trauma these children victims have experienced. Some of these parents and a number of the children thus ended up smoking pot and so forth. So simply saying these people are not serious, they are sahajiyas, they are deviants etc. is only having the effect of alienating them more and more from the religion as its re-victimizing the victims. 

Its not understanding the full picture of all these underlying events. Srila Prabhupada said if we do not treat the children properly they may come to reject the religion. And that is what has happened largely. OK so to attack these victims as bogus sahajiya pot smokers now -- is failing to understand the root issue, i.e. they were mistreated. We cannot attack the symptom without addressing the root. Placing a band aid on a cancer tumor is not going to address the root problem, nor will it fix it. It just covers up the problem, which makes it an even worse mess down the road.   

Previously, when we said that there is a child abuse problem -- culminating in a suicide of victims problem -- NNV (and many GBC guru defenders) said PADA is "attacking Srila Prabhupada and Krishna's body." OK that is simply rubbing salt into the wounds of these victims. They are ALREADY suffering because -- they have been living inside "the body of Srila Prabhupada and Krishna"? Nope. They have to be re-trained to understand what is inside "the body of God" and what is not. And we are doing that gradually, and many folks appreciate, including many victims.

We thus have to ask, are these victims suffering because ISKCON has been hijacked and they have been living in Satan's body? How can the GBC's folks say all this trauma is coming from "ISKCON, which is the body of Srila Prabhupada and Krishna." That is a major insult to Srila Prabhupada and Krishna is it not? Sorry, a hijacked and deviated religion is no longer authorized by God or His gurus. These victims have not been "living in the body of Srila Prabhupada and Krishna," this is simply misinformation designed to confuse people to think demoniac situations are Godly. 

"Those who think that devotion to God and kindness to living entities are different to each other and act accordingly in their life will not be able to follow devotional culture. Their attempt is only a resemblance of devotion. All types of beneficence to others like kindness, friendliness, forgiveness, charity and respect are included in devotion to God. Giving shelter during adversity, teaching academic and spiritual education, giving charity of medicine, clothes, food and water are activities included in devotional culture." 

[Srila BhaktivinodaThakura Sri Tattva sutram, 35]


Nathan Zakheim: Our opinion means infinitely LESS than the opinion of Srila Prabhupada!

PADA: Victims of abusive situations and especially psychological abuse trauma are not always able to meditate peacefully. A lot of the ex-kulis and ex-devotees around San Francisco want nothing to do with Krishna. To tell these people to meditate peacefully and not smoke pot etc. is not acknowledging the trauma they experienced. There needs to be a peaceful shelter situation for these people to come to in the first place, and that was supposed to be the original purpose of ISKCON. That did not happen.

Its not being done according to the original plan. Same thing in the Catholic Church, victims end up alienated from the Church, disliking the Church, and even attacking and suing the Church. The cycle of abuse has to be addressed first, then serene and peaceful "pot free" meditation is the next step. We are placing the cart before the horse. 

Its the sam-kirtana movement, that means congregational chanting. So without the "sam," its very hard for isolated individuals to do the "kirtan." That is why Srila Prabhupada wanted groups of devotees working together -- in or near -- his temples, acting cooperatively. And he said if we were our out on our own in isolated situations, we would have troubles, as we have seen in most cases. 

Nathan Zakheim: PADA's associate gave cannabis to the wife of our mutual friend, and she was hospitalized EACH TIME for several weeks, (after being found running through the streets screaming "I AM MAYA DEVI"....
(same as "SHIVA SHAKTI!"). 

[PADA: There are millions and millions of pot smoking people all over California and we do not find hardly any of them having total mental meltdowns, nervous breakdowns, and running down the street shouting and screaming at anyone. This indicates that the NNV group are mistreating people so badly they are driving them to these types of extreme behaviors. Then, they blame their victims for acting extreme. Even we have seen that some victims of ISKCON's alleged "strict devotees" have been committing suicide, never mind smoking pot for a little relief from the ISKCON tyrant GBC guru hypocrisy process and its hand maidens. 

This type of extreme reaction is part of the result of things like severe misogyny,  manipulation of females, and other extreme psychological pressure the GBC and NNV camp are creating for others. Many devotees have had mental breakdowns due to the extreme pressure they got from these tyrant behaviors, including suicides of child molesting victims. And NNV was foremost in complaining about PADA when we were addressing the suicides, which means he wanted the suicides to continue never mind people running down the street screaming. Saying that deviations like child molesting are found in "the body of God" is going to make a person run down the street screaming at the very least.]

My friend's wife is now a SECRETARY at "Marijuana Anonymous!" If you ask her "Do you agree with PADA's assessment of cannabis smoking?..... YOU HAD BETTER BE ABLE TO "RUN FASTER THAN SHE CAN SHOOT!" (Cannabis was introduced to India by Muslims 800 years ago!)

I gave up cannabis (dealing and smoking) in 1967 ...... I took Srila Prabhupada's DIRECT ORDER to not "smoke" seriously, and as soon as the "fumes wafted out of of my living space" I WOKE UP, and LOOKED AROUND and asked myself... "I FEEL GREAT NOW! ..... When I smoked, I was FOOL NUMBER ONE! .....(Like a Drunk at a "New Years Eve party" dancing around with a "lampshade on my head" ......I HAD THOUGHT THAT I WAS SO "COOL"! SP ONCE SAID, "HOW CAN YOU SAY "COOL" WHEN IT IS FIRE??? Cannabis was introduced in the 1950's and 1960's by the CIA to STOP THE ANTI WAR MOVEMENT!..... (IT WORKED!) THEN, LSD was introduced to keep people from leaving their houses, so that they could DO NOTHING AT ALL!

NOW if SP "came back", they would "gang up and "MURDER HIM" again, so that they could smoke "CANNABIS" in front of his FIBERGLASS MURTI, but not in front of HIM PERSONALLY, IN VANI FORM! 


NOW, this "big" "big" advocate of "spiritual?" cannabis must be used to sedate the growing feelings that the Iskcon Gurus are "bad" (which they are!). This same "advocate" of cannabis, was having darshan with SP in 1975, became enraged at SP, stormed out of HIS quarters, and left the movement until SP WAS CONVENIENTLY OUT OF THE WAY, whereupon, he became "facilitator in chief" for "guru" Jayatirtha! 

[PADA: Nope. I was the main one saying "from the get go" in 1978 that Jayatirtha is bogus. And I was kicked out of ISKCON for saying that. Meanwhile people like Naranarayan das, Hari Sauri and others were saying "Purajana's opinion does not matter because he is a sahajiya." OK so that chopped the legs off my complaints and enabled and empowered the Jayatirtha process. 

In other words, by people like NNV nullifying my complaints about Jayatirtha and discrediting me, that empowers and enables the false guru's process. As soon as I say Krishna's successors are not deviants, these NNV guys chop the legs of my protest by saying the complainant is not valid. Or worse, the complainant is the actual sahajiya and not Jayatirtha.]  

NNV: NOW this same "Sahajia" "drug pusher" wants all the REAL DEVOTEES of SP to smoke POT just like Jayatirtha...... ( I guess he has forgotten that Jayatirtha was BEHEADED by Lord Krishna!)

[PADA: Nope. By NNV and his associates saying that Puranjan is bogus to complain about Jayatirtha etc. because he is a sahajiya, that empowered the GBC to nullify my statements and resist against the complaints. That empowers the false gurus process, the molesting process, the changed books process, the worship of the poisoners -- and the whole regime we have been complaining about. And yes, by nullifying my complaints the result has been that Jayatirtha got his head chopped off and so many other ill effects.

In any case, the imperious over lording behavior of the "strict" seniors and gurus drove people away from ISKCON and into intoxication, just like the same ilk did in the Gaudiya Matha. Srila Prabhupada said the Gaudiya Matha rank and file had a pot problem, illicit sex problem etc. after they left the mission, but he also said -- they were driven out of the Gaudiya Matha by the imperious over lording seniors and bogus gurus. History just repeated here. 

The primary blame for this process was placed on the bogus imperial commander seniors and gurus of the Gaudiya Matha, by Srila Prabhupada himself. In sum, some former book distributing people I know would rather drink beer and watch football than be associated with these imperious and arrogant seniors and gurus, and I don't blame them either. 

They are now living a more humble, honest and "caring for others" life than they would have if they had stayed and associated with the seniors and elders and gurus of the ISKCON society. They improved their lot, that means, their other lot of being in that association was way worse. That does not justify anything. However its a fact, Srila Prabhupada was always warning "do not make it a stool society," because if we do, everyone will leave and we will have another Gaudiya Matha process of rank and file falling away. 

The GBC made it another Gaudiya Matha false guru stool society, then the rank and file fell away, that is exactly what he said would happen. To say his predictions are wrong is to defy his words. I think his predictions are 1,000 percent accurate, and the history here proves they are. So as usual we are trying to put the cart before the horse, the devotees en masse fell down and that is the main problem? Nope, its not the first problem. All of them were driven out and discouraged, that is the root and original problem. 

We have to address the root before we can address the symptoms. As for mine and NNV's "mutual friend," yes he physically assaulted his wife and broke her wrist while staying at NNV's house. And even her parents were mortified by this brutish, misogynistic and animal like behavior. That means her parents are more advanced, humble and caring than these "devotees" involved in this mess. 

Treating people badly, with physical or psychological abuse and then blaming them for falling down is re-victimizing the victims. A police man friend of mine said -- if there is physical abuse of a woman, that is only the tip of the iceberg. That means -- she is getting psychological abuse all the rest of the time -- and the physical abuse is just to keep her in line with the rest of the garbage going on there.  

Beating people mentally or physically is not the Vaishnava process. Many karmis also told me they could not fathom the levels of cruelty that people evolved in the so-called spiritual society of ISKCON. That people fell away should not surprise anyone. Srila Prabhupada says that a society that mistreats women and children will fail, and he is right. Pot smoking is the least of the problems here.

When devotee children were committing suicide from the abuse, Naranaryan das and his pals like Sanat (Stephen Voith) and Mukunda (Mark Whiteley UK)  joined forces to oppose us from saving these children from dying. They said that we were "attacking Srila Prabhupada's and Krishna's body of ISKCON." Wow, they actually believe that massive anal reconstructive surgery epidemics for children are found in "the body of God"? This is fanaticism on steroids. No normal person thinks like this, then they wonder why their victims are running down the road screaming? Then they started a petition to have PADA removed from the internet, but never made any petition to have the molester messiahs program removed from the internet.

You mean to say that pot head fools sitting in big Vyasa seats while having sex with followers is "the body of Srila Prabhupada"? Why would anyone try to establish that such deviations are "the body of Srila Prabhupada and Krishna"? And molested kids dying of suicide is also "Krishna's body"? How do they come up with this stuff? Molested kids who are dying of suicide are in the evil doer's body and not Krishna's body. And then Krishna Kirtan, Prahlad, Janardan, Pancali, HKC Jaipur folks etc. all chimed in, "oh yea we are with NNV, beating, starving, molesting children to the point they commit suicide is 'Krishna's body.'" Really?

Mass starving, beating, molesting of children, and subsequent suicides of victims is "the body of a pure devotee"? Worship of the poisoners of pure devotees is "the body of Krishna"? So all of this was used to nullify our complaints and it worked pretty good, then the regime was able to nullify us and move their deviations forward with little resistance, because the little resistance we were able to generate was being chopped down by claiming we are the bogus sahajiya sector. 

And the best way to fix the suicide of youth victims problem is to allow that to continue -- because we need to have a pile of dead bodies to "save the buildings of the body of Krishna"? We have no interest in saving people, only buildings. Then we wonder why the children have been alienated? Of course as soon as we said Srila Prabhupada was complaining about being poisoned, then NNV said we are "writing stools." Same thing Tamal said. Whose side is he on here? 

Anyway, the ex-children victims know that these people wanted the victims to die to save their precious buildings. That was the same problem we had with Krishna Kant Desai and the IRM. We have to not sue the GBC to save the buildings! Then they can continue the process of worship of the poisoners of pure devotees in these buildings? In any event, pot smoking is the least of the problems in even in the regular mundane society, and its not the main issue also in the Krishna society, we have much bigger issues to confront.

ys pd

1 comment:

  1. Thanks M dasi. Yes you are right. There are so many thousands of peaceful type devotees who smoke pot. And there at least several billion pot smoking people all over the planet, but they are not hitting their women and breaking their women's wrists and having their women running down the street screaming. Its only something that is happening with these guys. True dat!

    Yep, they are making their own victims, then blaming their victims. You are right to say they are creating a house of horrors then making fun of the people trapped in their horrible creation, and yes -- its the same way the ISKCON kulis were treated. Victimized and then blaming the victims. Agree.

    I would say its like the people who are laughing as they hurt others in the channel 44 horror movies. They harm if not psychologically destroy others, then blame them as fallen etc. when their victims are crushed under their jack boots. Very sad. We heard that NNV is now living alone in his van, its a sign that his authority is being rejected wholesale. Its sad for all, because in the end the victimizers suffer as do the victims, no one wins, except Kali Yuga. ys pd

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