Comparing ISKCON to Catholic Church (a conversation)

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/28/world/europe/cardinal-theodore-mccarrick-resigns.html

AC (New York City): Its only a question of time before the entire world demands the ISKCON GBC's gurus resign in shame as well. We need to keep exposing them until they have no where left to hide. The world has zero tolerance for religious leaders who allow child abuse to continue. I hope we can get more and more people to see the comparisons of the top leaders being involved in covering up of these crimes in both religions.    

GD: The noose is getting tighter even for you GBC folks who left the fold of the international (G)arbage (C)ollectors (C)lub.

MK: Radhanath definitely lied about his connection with Tirtha das... i sent evidence of that to Mr Henry Doktorski. When put into the context of Tirtha's own statements... ouch. 

SJ: Just saw a documentary about the Scientologists. They also have spent close to half a century rehashing and re-rehashing old conspiracies. Somehow, I thought the devotees were better than that. Guess not.

PADA: Some of the Los Angeles goonda squad were helping Kirtanananda's people. How do we know? Some of them told me that. An ex-gurukuli also said to me, while many of these gurus were eating 50 course feasts, we were eating rotten moldy food. These gurus have been like giant parasites, draining out the life blood of ISKCON, and also draining out our life too. 

And now they are retiring on ISKCON's assets, so they can keep making themselves a burden and sucking more of the blood of ISKCON until the final second that they drop dead. Meanwhile, we kids got screwed out of inheriting the society so we could use it for Srila Prabhupada. That is simply one testimony out of thousands of their victims. ys pd

MB: What’s up with those bugs?

JC: They look like blood sucking ticks to me just what these creeps have done to Srila Prabhupada's mission.

AG: I care. We are in Kali Yuga and our sastras are replete with curses and counter-curses, the defeat of demons and vengeful lilas, But where is there any scripture that tells the tale of murderers and murder conspirators who have been redeemed, what to speak of redeemed in the same life in which the murders occurred? I sincerely want to know. Where is the example in sastra of imposter gurus being redeemed in the very same life?

And I didn't even state "murders of Vaisnavas" which makes both offenses even greater.

PADA: A friend of mine went to a meeting of ISKCON leaders a few years ago in Vrndavana. He chastised some of the "gurus," don't you guys know that just about everyone hates your guts? And many, many people, especially your women and children victims, and all the thousands of people you kicked out, ... they are all praying for you to die? And what was the "guru" folks answer? 

Sure, we know all about that, but what can we do now? Are we going to leave ISKCON and go get a job driving a taxi or working in 7-11? No way! We are too old to go and get a job like that at this point. Being a guru is now our job, and we have to stay with it until we are dead. We have no other option. That is why its so hard for them to be redeemed. Same things happened in the Gaudiya Matha. Srila Prabhupada said -- a few old men, fighting over the rooms in the temple. They kicked everyone else out so they could make a "showing the deity" business. In other words, the FBI is right, if you want to figure out 99 percent of crimes, follow the money. ys pd

AG: One ISKCON guru whom I actually love (for being my very first guru inspiration) explained to me that taking initiation in ISKCON would open doors that would not open otherwise and that joining ISKCON in this way was similar to following a degree track at a university. This very much implied that you could eventually become a professor after achieving your PhD equivalence.

PADA: The GBC's gurus (like Jayadvaita) have been saying that their GBC's guru parampara contains -- illicit sex with men, women and children. Apparently, at least sex with goats is not part of their messiah's cadre, sabha and clan? That was one of my first complaints, if you guys wanted to establish the worship of illicit sex with men, women and children among a class of degraded adults, that is your business. 

Yet why should you train innocent children that their chain of messiahs includes illicit sex with men, women and children? Isn't this degrading the morals of minors? Why would someone want five year old children to believe that God's chain of successors is filled with debauchees, unless, one wanted to degrade those children and corrupt their morals? Basically, this is an attack on children's moral understanding, now going on all over the world under the GBC's regime. Yes, (A) there is God, (B) there are His guru successors, and (C) the successors are commonly falling and engaged in debauchee behaviors. That is giving people a corrupted version of who is God, and who are His guru successors and so on. And that is their self evident intent. Its an attack on God by degrading His successors to the levels of animal behaviors. ys pd

AG: And these people expect us to believe that it's impossible / inconceivable that a group of power hungry disciples and their lackeys would poison Srila Prabhupada in order to accelerate their plans to fulfill their lust for power, fame and money within ISKCON.

I have not heard this claim about our parampara having debauchees. I would like to see / hear proof of this or are you quoting from personal conversation?

PADA: Countless GBC documents say that their gurus are falling down. Jayadvaita wrote a paper saying their gurus are falling into illicit sex with men, women and children. This all started in 1980 when apparently their "higher authority" at the time -- BR Sridhara Maharaja, helped some GBC's write "The Mahajanas Have Difficulties" -- where they juxtaposed GBC deviations with -- how did you guess -- the Mahajanas. 

Read the GBC reports, there are all sorts of episodes where their gurus are being chastised, monitored, suspended, excommunicated, ad infinitum. These documents go all the way back to their 1978 papers they wrote, also using Sridhara Maharaja as their ghost writer, for example when Sridhara Maharaja said to them -- "acharyas can go mad after money, women and followers." There are so many documents on this on our sites. If their gurus are falling into illicit sex with men, women and children, and intoxicants, and so on, not sure how much worse it has to get to claim their gurus chain contains debauchees. ys pd

PADA: The guru fall down process starting in 1978: 

https://youtu.be/oFjove-LKKE

YOUTUBE.COM

BR Sridhara assists bogus ISKCON gurus (ISKCON #5)

AG: Strangely, I was told by one of the 11 gurus that Sridhara Maharaja had personally told him to always support ISKCON because the Gaudiya world needs ISKCON since it nourishes all of the other Gauidya Vaisnava sanghas. I'm going to guess that this was Maharaja's way of limiting the damage that the GBC could do, by channeling all of the malfeasance into only one institution?

Furthermore, I am confused because I thought that Srila Prabhupada stayed with Sridhar Maharaja and wanted to go preaching with him. Didn't Srila Prabhupada also say that Sridhara Maharaja was his siksa guru?

PADA: Sridhara Maharaja promoted a false acharya in 1936, which created banning, beatings and murders. He is well aware of the results of his program of promoting false acharyas, and this is also what happened when he supported false acharyas after 1977. He also said, none should protest. This did not tamper down the deviations, this opened the flood gates of the deviations, the deviants are gurus and -- none should protest. That means by our protesting, we will get banned, beaten and killed, and Sridhara already knew that would happen to us dissenters, its what happened to us dissenters in the 1940s. ys pd

Srila Prabhupada said many things about Sridhara Maharaja, including in 1977, that he is the leader of the severe offenders Bagh Bazaar party. Srila Prabhupada also said Jayatirtha is my tirtha, ok but we have to keep everything in context. ys pd

Problems with the God brothers: https://youtu.be/YqCFMHLisBI

ISKCON early history pt.3 *MAYAPURA 1972* by pd

AG: Seems like 'at best' ISKCON is propagating the "Marketplace of the Holy Name," that some number of the gurus are engaging in "guru business" which makes that marketplace a material endeavor, rather than a spiritual one. Your statement about gurus not being able to leave ISKCON for another line of work is eerily similar to the situation of the priests in the Roman Catholic Church in the Vatican.

PADA: Yes, this is why Srila Prabhupada said do not make my movement into another Gaudiya Matha or Catholic Church. Its corrupt.

AG: Do we have any devotee eye witness testimony on matters of Sridhara Maharaja's influence on ISKCON who is not also a guilty party. Is there any impartial observer? 

At this rate, perhaps in due course of time the demons will die and the Indians in India and America will take over the GBC and restore some Hindu decency to ISKCON society for starters. One can hope.

MK: If one remains always a servant everlastingly of guru, then he is liberated. And as soon as he thinks that he is liberated, he’s a rascal. That is the teaching of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu ... You must be ready always to be chastised by guru. Then he’s liberated. And as soon as he thinks that “I am beyond this chastisement, I am liberated,” he’s a rascal…. 

Why this Gaudiya Math failed? Because they tried to become more than guru. He [Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura], before passing away, he gave them all direction and never said that “This man should be the next acharya .” But these people, just after his passing away, they began to fight, who shall be acharya . That is the failure. They never thought, “Why Guru Maharaja gave us instruction so many things, why he did not say that this man should be acharya? ” They wanted to create artificially somebody acharya, and everything failed. They did not consider even with common sense that if Guru Maharaja wanted to appoint somebody as acharya, why did he not say? 

He said so many things, and this point he missed? The real point? And they insisted upon it. They declared some unfit person to become acharya. Then another man came, then another, acharya, another acharya . So better remain a foolish person perpetually to be directed by Guru Maharaja. That is perfection. –Srila Prabhupada, August 16, 1976, Bombay (Conversations with Srila Prabhupada, Vol. 26, p. 59-60)

AG: While we are on the subject of impostor gurus, maybe we could do an informal survey or analysis to learn the percentage of feminist females (and males, for that matter) who end up taking shelter of the presumably bogus gurus. From there, we could also add in any devotee with left-leaning political tendencies. Then we could examine those same guru's political attitudes and ask the question if the guru's politics is an accurate predictor of their fraudulence. 

This would be a landmark study that would likely expose once and for all the philosophical infection of ISKCON with leftist (cultural marxist) philosophy. The point of the study would not be to necessarily blame any person or assembly or ethnicity of devotees. The purpose would be to establish the pattern of deviation from Srila Prabhupada's true mood. Then devotees could decide for themselves, with clarity, if they should take shelter of such gurus.

PADA: Most of the original wave of devotees were from the hippie stock. What happened in San Francisco in the 1970s is that CROOKS were getting out of jail and going to Haight Ashbury area. And there -- they could get sex and drugs, and commit crimes with more or less impunity, since the hippies were many times -- unwilling to call "the man" (the cops). So gradually the Haight was taken over by the criminals, despite they were only a teeny minority. The city later on spent $23M on hiring 100 new cops and buying new cop cars to patrol the Haight / Golden Gate etc. The hippies disdain for calling the cops process then transferred into ISKCON, because when there was banning, beating, molesting, drug dealing, murders and who knows what else, how did you guess, people did not want to call "the man." Unfortunately, we did not have $23M to hire 100 cops and buy them cop cars, so the crooks won by default. Did the crooks also poison Srila Prabhupada to enable their take over? I believe firmly, they did. ys pd

MM: NEW WORD ORDER agenda: illicit sex with men, women and children. The "Illuminati's," actually already implemented agenda for North America, Europe, Africa, Middle East, and in every possible worldwide societies, in progress. Very simple ... Who poisoned Prabhupad? the same ... It's worse than one single murder or robbery ... actually terrifying!!!!

AG: If any of them (whoever they are) had true remorse, they would come clean. But they obviously do not. No remorse ...

MM: Maybe eventually, sometimes, eternity is in front of them, who knows ...

AG: This is why I am disgusted by whatever remains in my brain of my leftist programming and I do not want to see it continue to infect ISKCON. However, I am only in the position of cultivating my deepest possible understanding of Srila Prabhupada while protecting myself from the influence of devotee leftists who would unknowingly facilitate Srila Prabhupada's murder all over again by supporting those persons who are implicated in his murder plot. I say implicated because I do not personally know anything 'for sure'. From deductive reasoning it seems more and more likely that Srila Prabhupada was murdered.

MM: Deduction and factography! There are so many, and so deeply scarred witnesses ...

PADA: John 17:12, NIV: "While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled." Judas was doomed, and I believe a lot of our Judas clique are also doomed. Srila Prabhupada once said, false gurus are never forgiven by the Lord, nor any agents of the Lord. 

The consequences are very dire, they are "destined for the most obnoxious regions of the universe." Even if they repent, it might save them somewhat, but not entirely. Anyway, they are also suffering from taking sins already. Srila Prabhupada said if we neophytes take the post of diksha guru we will be absorbing sins, and this will make us get sick, fall down, and many of them died early. Of course -- when I said Sridhara Maharaja is making our people get sick, fall down and die by encouraging them to be diksha gurus and absorb sins, they said I was making offenses. Nope, we were and are, stating the facts. ys pd

MM: Kali Yuga is so disgusting ... deeply sorry, even this conversation is in Kali Yuga, until authentic results of eventual investigations in future ...

AG: Yeah, I have already been down this rabbit hole and drawn conclusions, but I have divested myself of emotion about it and certainty because it wasn't good for my devotional life.

PADA: Everyone who is experiencing Kali yuga is destined to be a participant. Nothing happens by accident. If we are all in Krishna's holding cell #34,980,106, sometimes called planet earth at the present moment, we were all put here for a reason. The real question is, can we do better in our next situation? Heh heh heh! ys pd

AG: Nevertheless, I feel it is important to holistically examine what kind of political philosophy (hint: adharmic) is a breeding ground for the kind of mentality that enables such abuses and crimes as these.

SG: I'm starting to like this AG chap.

MD: Won't the poisoning of Prabhupada make the religion more unpopular?

PADA: Srila Prabhupada..."If Christ were not crucified, then his cult would not have spread so much all over the world. The Christian cult was spread all over the world after demise of Christ, not during his time. Is it not?"

Room conversation Feb 19 1977

RR: Many people think the fact that Srila Prabhupada was poisoned will ruin the movement. Here it suggests it demonstrates just how exalted Srila Prabhupada is, and will only add to his glory.

PADA: Yep, every single day we get more and more people on board with our idea that various ISKCON GBC's leaders either individually or collectively: (a) were not appointed as gurus; (b) assisted a program of exploiting women and children, and sometimes severely abused them; (c) exploited the assets of ISKCON; (d) changed the books without authority; (e) and worse, some members of the GBC guru's core cadre were self-apparently in a conspiracy to poison Srila Prabhupada. 

We have at this point only a few number of hokey hold outs inside the institution, and of course the GBC's hand maiden PADA attackers like: a few Gaura Govinda folks / Janardan / Peter / Sanat / Krishna Kirtan / Mukunda / Prahlad / Pancali / HKC Jaipur ilk, who have been crying like lost puppies because PADA is attacking the Judas party / GBC's abusive agenda. 

PADA is being too mean to this agenda!  

Well maybe, but whether its the Catholic Church, or ISKCON, many victims would say -- PADA has NOT BEEN HEAVY ENOUGH. Anyway! Either leaders or rank and file should have helped us protest all this stuff AGES AGO! The good news is, more and more and more people are NOW joining our side at this stage, and the numbers of dissenters on our side of these issues will simply increase over time. Satyam eva jayate! ys pd