Problems with Gaura Govinda Maharaja

Gaura Govinda Maharaja's lecture, as found in these two locations: 

http://tvpbooks.com/2012/06/hear-from-a-physically-present-sri-guru/

https://www.facebook.com/notes/pure-bhakti/gour-govinda-maharaja-on-reading-and-listening-to-tapes/292037564139812

Questions & Answers with Srila Gour Govinda Swami Maharaja

Published in The Worship of Sri Guru, chapter 3

Devotee 1: Sabda-brahma is Krsna in sound vibration?

Srīla Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. One has to hear. It is not that, “All right, tapes are there, I’ll hear the recorded tapes.” Sabda-brahma will never descend.

Devotee 2: It doesn’t descend through transmission of tape?

Śrīla Gour Govinda Swami: No, no.

[PADA: This is false. Almost all of Srila Prabhupada's books were originally tape recorded and then transcribed. Most of the people who became devotees in the 1970s only heard Srila Prabhupada by reading his books and listening to his tapes. His tapes were always being played in the ISKCON temples in the 1970s, and we listened to the tapes all the time. And we still do! Moreover, distributing the books (made from the tapes) was the number one method of making new devotees. 

To say that the audio taped speaking of a pure devotee (i.e. his books and recorded speech) is not "sabda brahma" is very foolish. Again for clarity, Srila Prabhupada FIRST of all tape recorded most of his books on audio tapes, and then the AUDIO TAPES were later transcribed into his books. How can we say these taped recordings and subsequent books are not sabda brahma (Krishna's sound vibration)? 

The whole process arranged by Srila Prabhupada was and still is -- to have his vani / tapes / books given to people now and for future generations of people. Srila Prabhupada first of all made audio tapes of his books, and now Gaura Govinda maharaja says, there is no sabda brahma in these books, because they are originally tape recorded? This defies the entire structure of (A) audio tapes and (B) subsequent books set up by Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada also said: "I will live forever from my books and you will utilize," so that is HIS program, we will get his association from his books which were originally TAPE RECORDED.]

Devotee 2: Only when you are personally sitting there with a pure Vaiṣṇava?

Srila Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. Now in this material scientific age so many techniques are there. People, say, “No more teachers are required. We’ll teach through television.” Nonsense, sabda-brahma will never descend.

[PADA: Most of the 1970s devotees rarely saw Srila Prabhupada, except perhaps on a few days of his visiting their temple. Many never met him physically in person at all, ever. To say that Srila Prabhupada's system of hearing sabda brahman via his books and tapes is "material science" is very foolish. 

VERY FEW devotees had any personal association, and a number of those who DID have personal association became very fallen afterwards because they did not listen to the VANI -- or words of the guru. Srila Prabhupada said his disciples should act in the capacity of neophyte priests and preachers and -- give people his books. 

That is the system he established, and that is STILL the system we should follow. Srila Prabhupada says very clearly -- that his books will give people the teachings of Krishna, the sabda brahma, and there is NO RECORD where he ever modified, changed or altered that arrangement one iota.]

Devotee 3: What if one is a disciple of a bona fide guru, and then later on that guru stops his lila. What should one do?

Srila Gour Govinda Swami: Lila is always there, adyapiha sei lila kare gaura-raya, kona kona bhagyavan dekhibare paya. Gauranga’s pastimes are still going on. People say, “Oh Gauranga Mahaprabhu has disappeared.” One who is very fortunate and has the vision can see how gaura-lila is still going on.

[PADA: Right, the distribution of books and tapes was the lila in the 1970s, and it still exists. People were worshiping Srila Prabhupada in the past, and new people are worshiping him now. The lila is ongoing.]

Devotee 3: That means that guru is always there?

Srila Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. He is always there. His lila is going on.

[PADA: Except that GGM does not recognize that the guru's lila is also found in his tapes and books? GGM thinks this "lila" is a material scientific arrangement. The vani of the pure devotee is a material scientific arrangement, because his words are found on audio files?]

Devotee 3: I may think, “I have already taken the dust of the lotus feet of my guru. Now he is not here. So I don’t need that dust anymore.”

Srīla Gour Govinda Swami: Darsana is there. The guru is always there if you have the eye to see. If you are a sat-sisya you can always see how the guru is present.

[PADA: Except GGM has just stated that the guru's sabda brahma is not transmitted via his audio tapes, or in the books made from those tapes. GGM does not think the guru is present in his VANI, and that is the whole problem from square one. 

The entire Vedic process of transmission of information is made through the speaking of the guru, i.e. the guru's vani. And that vani is now available -- in audio tapes -- and in the books made from those audio tapes. Notice how GGM confutes himself, he says the guru is eternally present, then he says, no the guru has to be in the temporary realm of being currently present in a physical body. This is also what the smartas argue, that the guru has to be physically present, he cannot exist onwards in his vani. Of course this is also what the Vatican teaches, there is always a physically present Pope. Srila Prabhupada never mentioned this physically present guru after he would physically depart, rather he said he would live on from his books.]

Devotee 4: How can we see guru?

Srila Gour Govinda Swami: Blind man! If you are endowed with that vision you can see. I never lost sight of my guru. I see my guru is always there. Therefore I cannot say, “nitya-lila-pravistha”. It is so painful to me. No! He is here.

[PADA: GGM has essentially said that Srila Prabhupada or his sabda (words) do not exist in his tapes, or in the books made from these tapes, thus he is the person who is blind. He cannot see that Srila Prabhupada is STILL existing eternally in his vani. Nor does GGM recognize the plan of Srila Prabhupada -- which is -- to continue to exist through his vani.]

Devotee 4: Do you have to be a pure devotee to see a pure devotee?

Srila Gour Govinda Swami: Yes! That vision is required. If you have no vision then you are a blind man. How can a blind man see? The object is there. What is required to see the object? The first thing is the eye. Next is light. You may be endowed with vision, but if there is no light, how can you see? Can you see in the darkness? Therefore two things are required, first vision and then light. Even if you are endowed with eyes, if there is no light then you can’t see. What is that light? The enlightenment by the mercy, potency. If you are devoid of that, how can you see?

[PADA: Correct, GGM is so blind he cannot see that the audio tapes which produced Srila Prabhupada's books are sabda brahma, and we can listen to these tapes or read the books made from these tapes, and receive sabda brahma. Worse, GGM is so blind he cannot recognize who is a guru and who is not, therefore he has not only supported the GBC's bogus guru system, GGM was in fact "voted in" to their system himself in 1986. Sorry, GGM's guru voting system is blind ecclesiastical foolishness which is not recognized in the Vedic culture. We do not find any of GGM's bogus "2/3 show of hands votes for gurus" which was used to certify GGM as a guru in 1986.] 

Devotee 5: Anarthas are like clouds in front of the eye?

Srila Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, Yes. Anarthas are like clouds covering the sun. The eye is covered.

Devotee 2: Can one see guru appearing in different forms, or is he coming in dreams?

Srila Gour Govinda Swami: He may come in a dream. He has different forms also, just as Krsna has different forms. Krsna has so many manifestations. Therefore we have described in our book Sri Guru-vandana about samasti-guru and vyasti-guru.

[PADA: Srila Prabhupada said his books (made from his audio taped recordings) are literary incarnations of Krishna, and GGM says that is -- a mundane scientific arrangement.]

Devotee 6: What are those kind of gurus?

Srila Gaura Govinda swami: Krsna is one. Guru-tattva is also one. Guru is one, but he appears in different, different, forms. That is samasti-guru. The particular forms such as Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami, Srila Bhakitisiddhanta, this person and that; this isvyasti-guru.

[PADA: And Gaura Govinda Maharaja was voted in as guru at the GBC's 1986 "guru reform" of reinstating Bhavananada. Everyone of us was protesting because there were multiple reports of Bhavananda engaging in homosexuals acts. And yet, despite knowing there was a homosexual program going on in the name of acharyas, GGM still participated in the odious ceremony to recoronate Bhavananada. In short, GGM was getting certified as a guru alongside Bhavananda at the same recoronation ceremony in 1986. 

Bhavananada is one of the most serious deviants ISKCON had after 1977, and yet GGM is getting certified as a guru along with him in 1986. Yes, 1986 is also the year Sulochana was excommunicated, and Sulochana was murdered a few months after the 1986 combined recoronation of Bhavananda -- and coronation ceremony of GGM. All kinds of crimes were going on at the time, and yet GGM told me much later that he had to "cooperate, tolerate and work with" the GBC, the same folks who were reinstating homosexuals as acharyas. 

* Why doesn't GGM know that homosexuals are not acharyas? 

* That acharyas are not suspended for being homosexuals?

* That acharyas are not voted in?

* That the people who reinstate homosexuals as gurus are not qualified to appoint others as acharyas? 

* That GGM should not participate in homosexual acharya recoronation? ETC!

Devotee 3: When Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura left, guru was still there?

Srīla Gour Govinda Swami: Yes.

Devotee 3: Guru is always present?

Srila Gour Govinda Swami: Yes, always present.

Devotee 3: Because guru is non-different from Krsna we understand that to be a guru is not an easy thing. So why is it said that someone maybe on the level of kanistha or madhyama can be guru?

Srila Gour Govinda Swami: All are gurus. There is kanistha-guru,madhyama-guru, uttama-gurus. Divisions are there. What you deserve you get. Kṛṣṇa knows what you deserve so He makes an appropriate arrangement for you.

Devotee 7: Some devotees are not accepting guru now. They are saying, “I’ll just accept sastra.”

Srila Gour Govinda Swami: How can you understand sastra?

[PADA: Yes, good point. GGM never read the shastra or he would know that acharyas are not "suspended, censured and removed" for being homosexuals. Nor are homosexuals "reinstated" as acharyas. And when a known homosexual guru is reinstated in a contrived ceremony -- GGM gets voted in at the same odious ceremony? What is that? So GGM has not understood the square one point -- that none of this is found in shastra. Never mind the Vedic shastra, there is no shastra on earth where homosexuals are being suspended and then reinstated as the acharyas. Its apa-dharma, against all religions.]

Devotee 7: But we have seen, as in Russia, that some devotees have only gotten books and they are now chanting, worshiping the deity, and preaching.

Srila Gour Govinda Swami: You cannot understand. In sastra, mantra is there and nama is there, but unless it comes out from the lips of sad-guru, Sri Guru, your chanting will never be effective. The potency will never be there.

[PADA: Correct. The people who read Srila Prabhupada's books understand immediately that GGM is bogus to participate in homosexual guru's recoronation ceremony, because the readers of the books are hearing from the right source, i.e. the books are coming from the lips of a pure devotee. 

As for the lips of GGM's homosexual acharyas, Sulochana used to say -- the lips of GGM's acharyas are sucking the genitals of men. Thus, while the lips of GGM's acaryas are sucking who knows what, GGM is actually correct -- there is no factual potency from GGM's bogus acharyas. Thus no one will ever be liberated by hearing from the lips of GGM's bogus acharyas. Of course, this begs the question, who authorized GGM to become the advocate / cheer leader of this homosexual guru project?  

That is the basic difference between the Prabhupadanugas and GGM, our acharyas are speaking about Krishna from their lips, while GGM's acharyas lips are sucking who knows what. As such, there is no potency in GGM's bogus sampradaya. There is however a lot of deviated potency in GGM's homosexual guru lineage to have us dissenters banned, beaten and assassinated. The GGM acharya process is quite powerfully competent to have us people banned, beaten, and assassinated.]

Devotee 7: But they say that smrti-sastra is coming from the lips of Vaisnavas, so we are hearing smrti.

Srīla Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. This is how sastra manifests. When it comes out from the lips of sad-guru, Srī Guru, then it manifests. Though sastra is there, by itself it will never manifest to you. It’s a question of manifestation.

[PADA: Right, from the tape recordings of Srila Prabhupada's shastra -- many sincere devotees have become manifest -- whereas from GGM's speculations, -- homosexual acharyas become manifest. And some of the people who protested GGM's homosexual guru lineage have been assassinated.]

Devotee 7: Other persons say that we can hear from the commentaries of the Vaisnava acaryas.

Srīla Gour Govinda Swami: For that reason it is said, bhaktya bhagavatam grahyamna buddhya na ca tikaya (Cc. 24.313)

Srimad-Bhagavatam can only be understood by bhakti, not be dint of one’s intelligence or by reading commentaries.You cannot understand Bhagavata by taking help of the tikas, commentaries. So many commentaries are there. One may think, “Yes, I am a scholar. It is all written in Sanskrit. I know the language so I can read and understand it.” No! You can only understand Srimad-Bhagavatam by bhakti. You cannot understand Bhagavata by dint of your material scholarship, learning, intelligence, or by taking the help of the commentaries. No, no. Hear from acarya and then you can develop bhakti. Unless you hear, how can you understand just by reading? You cannot understand. Grantha-avatara will never manifest to you. You will only see paper, and black and white. Nothing else.

[PADA: Right. The sincere devotees with actual bhakti read the Bhagavatams of Srila Prabhupada, and by dint of such reading, they were immediately able to see that GGM and his guru line of -- voted in, voted out, suspended, reformed, rectified, monitored, and sometimes reinstated homosexual acharyas, is totally bogus. Yes, unless one is sincere -- then the books of the Vedas will simply be "black and white text" with no actual meaning or understanding. So the sincere devotees were able to defeat GGM and his homosexual acharya's sabha simply by quoting a few verses from Srila Prabhupada's Bhagavatam.]

Devotee 7: Then what is the meaning of the brhad-mrdanga-sankīrtana? Śrīla Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati has said that our kirtana is brhad-mrdanga-sankirtana, the printing press.

Srīla Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. That will inspire you. Just one book distributed spreads so far. First you read the book and then one friend says, "Oh, let me read it.” Then he lets someone else read it. In this way it spreads so much. The sound of the mrdanga only goes from here to there, but the brhad-mrdanga spreads so far. That will inspire you. You will think, “Who is the source? Let me go and see and hear from him.”

[PADA: Right. So after people read the books, then they wanted to hear more from the source, and so they listened to the tapes. GGM thinks that is bogus. He says they will naturally want to listen to the tapes, then he says, but listening to the tapes is not sabda brahma? He is arguing with his own shadow, just to confuse people.] 

Devotee 7: So first you hear and then if you read the same thing in the sastra…

Srila Gour Govinda Swami: Yes. It is only in Kali-yuga that books are required. In other yugas there are no books. Just by hearing once they would never forget, but in this yuga, if I ask you to repeat what you have heard after the class, how much can you repeat? You will have already forgotten ninety to ninety-five percent. Only five percent you may be able to repeat. Books are required. Therefore Vyasadeva came and wrote books. In other yugas there are no books. They will help you remember, "Oh yes. I have heard. Now it is here."

[PADA: OK so the books are required because whatever we hear from GGM, we will forget 95 percent of that in a short time. So what is the big deal of his physical teaching, since the book is required anyway? Again he is arguing with himself. GGM says we need to learn from the physically present person, but then he admits, this will not be too useful since we will forget 95 percent of what GGM is saying in a few minutes. Oooops, so we needed the books all along anyway.]

Devotee 7: In your book Śrī Guru-vandana, you have described this flow of nectar as padma-madhu. You said that it comes to a devotee who is a sincere hearer. So someone who is very sincere to hear from guru and serves guru, he may get that nectar even though he may not have physical contact?

Srīla Gour Govinda Swami: You should be greedy. Physical contact is required. You must hear directly, not just by listening to tapes. Sabda-brahma will never descend through a tape. One must hear from a physically present Sri Guru.

[PADA: Except that Gaura Govinda Maharaja says -- his preaching will be 95 percent forgotten in a few minutes. Then he says, we will have to rely on the books in any case. That means, people will have to follow our idea, and read the books. As far as GGM's physically present gurus, GGM supported the bogus GBC's guru system and he told me in person that he has to "cooperate, tolerate and work with" the GBC's and their guru system. Problem is, none of us think the GBC is producing "living gurus." 

In 1993, when the GBC wanted to get rid of Tamal for his creating the Narayana Maharaja outcropping, GGM stood up at the GBC's Mayapura meeting and demanded that the GBC reinstate and keep Tamal as one of ISKCON's acharyas. Right, we need the number one suspect in Srila Prabhupada's poison complaint to continue on as the messiah of ISKCON. Tamal used to lecture that his two favorite people are Bhavananda and Narayana Maharaja, the two people who caused a lot of damage to ISKCON. Why do we need to keep this agenda in ISKCON?  

And immediately after GGM physically departed, most of his followers ran off to Narayana Maharaja. Ooops, then NM departed. Now their whole program is disintegrating because they cannot agree on who will be the next living "successor guru."]     

Srila Gour Govinda Maharja also states: "Who cries in his heart, how to develop devotion, how to get association of sadhus, Krishna gives him pure intelligence. Thereby he gets the association of sadhus and he recognizes a sadhu."

[PADA: That is exactly what is happening. The GGM program is not even heard of anymore, its diminished to almost nothing. People are getting interested in our Prabhupadanuga idea because Krishna is giving them the intelligence to surrender to the pure devotee and not GGM's concocted debauchee guru process. GGM was also saying that Srila Prabhupada's idea that we "originate in Krishna's lila or sport" is wrong, he asserted that the Gaudiya Matha idea that we originate in the tatastha is correct. Srila Prabhupada said that the Gaudiya Matha idea is tinged with mayavada. Anyway, this is a good start to recognize the problems GGM has with Gaudiya siddhanta. ys pd]