Some Comments on "The Poison Issue." 09 30 24

PADA: Wow. All sorts of people, including many so-called ritviks, thought I had lost the last marble rolling in my head when I announced -- the poison tape. Well persistence pays, because now it looks like the "poison issue" is gaining wide acceptance and eventually, it will be the ONLY accepted version of ISKCON history. 

When I first got the tape, I admit I was hesitating, this will turn history on its head. But after thinking about it, I realized, this is the truth, and the truth must come out for everyone's welfare, even if that truth is evil and unpalatable. 

But yeah, the poisoning explains all the subsequent results: the banning, beating, molesting, suing and killing; the horrific media scandals; the book changes; the encouraging meat eating and mayavada Hindus to take over, and all the rest of it. This was the evil poisoned root that sprouted the malefic poisoned tree. The counter arguments are more and more looking fanatical, foolish, weak, unsubstantiated, or simply -- made up out of thin air. 

November 3, 1977: Please do not torture me and put me to death, need I say more? The most amazing thing for me personally is, Krishna somehow or other kept me alive long enough -- to release the tape and start the issue rolling. 

Lets not forget that in 1986 it was a bit touch and go -- when the GBC took out Sulochana, and they would have taken me out -- without help from the FEDS. The FEDS arranged to have the three goons Hansadutta sent from New Vrndavana to -- take me down -- arrested in Berkeley. Yeah, my surviving at all is somewhat of a miracle for us teeny jeeva dust specks, but it is an easy job for Krishna. Yep. Krishna evidently wanted me to be around to carry on with these expose programs. It is all amazing and simply -- all the more -- proves, "God works in mysterious ways." No kidding!

ys pd 

angel108b@yahoo.com  

TD: Please accept my humble obeisances, All Glory's to Srila Prabhupad "The Lord is so mysterious, truely amazing" Thank you!.

ID: Where we can download the letter of Dhira Govinda Prabhu please, thank you

JD: “Six points to consider in understanding the phrase, “...not that I am poisoned.” (1) “He” (the unknown informant) spoke of symptoms only and was not speaking of poisoning. This is understood from “He said like that...” (2) Tamal began to ask whether Srila Prabhupada was poisoned, but corrected himself and asked if it was SAID that he was poisoned. Tamal did not ask IF there was a poisoning; he asked as to WHAT was said. (3) If Tamal thought that Srila Prabhupada had just said that he was not poisoned, surely Tamal would have repeated it or sought elaborations. Instead, he pursued another line of thought, namely whether poisoning symptoms were known to him from before. (4) Srila Prabhupada, in response to Tamal’s question, is clarifying what someone else (“he”) said, and not his own thoughts on the matter. His own thoughts have been expressed earlier and will be again expressed the next morning, and these thoughts are that he has been poisoned. (5) This is not the last statement Srila Prabhupada makes on the poison issue. He clearly states the next morning: “That same thing – that someone has poisoned me.” So even if there is some confusion over the meaning of “not that I am poisoned,” it is cleared up by the next morning, leaving no further doubt about Srila Prabhupada’s thoughts or meaning. He thought he had been poisoned. (6) Srila Prabhupada didn't say he was not poisoned, he said that someone said he had the classical symptoms of poisoning. This is a polite way, or non-accusing way, of saying: “I have been poisoned”- because I have all the symptoms of one who is poisoned. If it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, good chance it’s a duck.”

TAMAL: Srila Prabhupada? You said before that you... that it is said that you were poisoned?

SP: No, these kind of symptoms are seen when a man is poisoned. He said like that, not that I am poisoned. 

TAMAL: Yeah. Did anyone tell you that, or you just know it from before?

SP: I read something. 

TAMAL: Ah, I see. That's why actually we cannot allow anyone to cook for you. 

SP: That's good. 

TAMAL: Jayapataka Maharaja was telling that one acharya, Sankaracharya, of the Sankaracharya line - this is a while ago - he was poisoned to death. Since that time, none of the acharyas or the gurus of the Sankaracharya line will ever take any food cooked except by their own men.

SP: My Guru Maharaja also. 

TAMAL: Oh. You, of course, have been so merciful that sometimes you would take prasada cooked by so many different people. 

SP: That should be stopped.

…..We note that Tamal switched from “you said” to “it is said.” In other words, did the informant say you were poisoned? And Srila Prabhupada answered that he was not told he had been poisoned.   (Srila Prabhupada’s Hidden Glories, 1.35)

KR: Finally! The elephant in the room is discussed and pinpointed. This is long overdue. They should all be “fired” for the coverup.

HKM: No poisoning no one can do anything to Prabhupada he is protected fully.

MD: From what I have heard, Bhakticaru Swami was a new devotee at the time, and was bullied and threatened into complying with the others. His passing was deemed suspicious by some ( toxic medications and put a ventilator which is known to be dangerous) , and maybe was accelerated to keep him quiet.

FF: Absolutely fantastic. I rewatched it. There are 9 evidences in the clip 

Some direct . Some indirect and some coded evidence.

DH: There is a certain group of people on earth, who historically are infamous for infiltrating the upper echelons, of both countries, religious movements. They specialise in assassination, bribery and degrading the moral integrity of the entities they Infiltrate. I believe there is was disproportionate amount of these people acting as gurus and management within isckon in the early days. Is this a coincidence, I doubt it. Evil will always try to infiltrate  anything pure, its not surprising in this world.

TB: Some are saying it’s impossible that Krishna wouldn’t protect his pure devotee from mundane poison given by others, and that it was actually poison in the form of arsenic found in the food chain that Krishna failed to protect His pure devotee from.

PH: The first time I saw the video of Prabhupada's last moments, I did not know anything about this story or rumours of poison. Nor I read the text which was with the video because I was immediately shocked by the ultra demoniac atmosphere around S. Prabhupada. Only after, I read the text (conversation).

Anyway......if the first (physical) murder did not exist, the same people would not have found within themselves, psychologically, the strength to murder S. Prabhupada a second time by rewriting his books so soon. Therefore the psychological proof is there for those who know enough about human psychology.

KD: So who are the 3 main suspects according to the new findings? Bhavananda for sure is one of them but can anyone list the others please with details of possible. 

TB: Who says Indians use the word poison to indicate bad diet? Srila Prabhupada spent his whole life eating Indian food and had, by all accounts, more energy than his young disciples and was very robust and healthy for his age, and then suddenly the food was so bad in Vrndavan it killed him? Is that what you’re saying?

Someone would have to eat a lot of ‘wrong diet’ to die from it. So Srila Prabhupada was telling his cooks it’s the diet that is poisoning me but they kept feeding him and he kept eating until he died and everyone knew in India poison means diet? Does not sound logical.

Chaturatma Das: “I didn't see Srila Prabhupada again until one month before his departure in Vrindavan. I think any devotee who was there at the time can attest to the fact that the Srila Prabhupada we saw then, was not the Srila Prabhupada we knew. 

“The last time I saw Srila Prabhupada he was robust, full body and then when he came to Vrindavan it was in his final eight weeks on the planet and he was completely withdrawn. It was really a shock to me.”

(From Memories of Srila Prabhupada YouTube)

MD: Who was in charge of the tape recorder? Did Srila Prabhupada's so-called 'caretakers' not know that their voices might be recorded?

PADA: They did not want this tape to get out, so they hid it, because even the English is sufficient. I had to go through a lot of trouble just to get the tape. But Krishna wanted this tape to get out, and I prayed to get it. But yeah, they had no idea modern audio forensics would eventually be discovered and used on this tape. Krishna wanted this to come out, and it is. They also had no idea that the hair would be examined etc. ys pd

TB: “Let’s pretend for a moment that it’s true…” For someone in a bed ridden, frail state who became aware that the people who had full access to them were intent on their demise, that would be a very precarious, dangerous position. There would be the obvious concern that to reveal what you knew might well see you dead by morning. I don’t think it’s credible to say because Prabhupada didn’t just tell someone, because he didn’t do what we think was possible, then there’s your proof it never happened. 

If Srila Prabhupada began to suspect he was being poisoned, as he seems to indicate, how was he to know who in that room he could trust to turn to? We are not him, so we cannot say what would have been easy or impossible for him under those circumstances. 

Then there’s the fact Srila Prabhupada did try to get away from that situation if you’re looking for indications that Srila Prabhupada was suspecting something amiss. He did actually try to escape from the room in which he later died. 

He tried hard to have other disciples come in from outside and take him out on a bullock cart ride. He conceived of the entire plan that would have put him in a more public setting where he may have been free to confide in the people he could trust. He might have had them take him away, to Radha Damodara or some other place he had friends and felt safe. 

If someone were being kept in a room and slowly poisoned by their carriers, this would have certainly been one way to escape without revealing to your poisoners what you knew or suspected. 

And guess what, they blocked him and wouldn’t allow him to leave those rooms, even the guru was requesting it. And it’s at this time Srila Prabhupada said better to be killed by Rama than Ravana. 

So if Srila Prabhupada was perfectly safe in his rooms, being lovingly cared for and protected from all danger by those few who had such tight control on everything, then what did that statement mean? Everything else Srila Prabhupada says we take as transcendental truth, but we toss this one aside because it doesn’t fit our preconceived ideas or beliefs? There’s limitations to any investigation when we only look for evidence to fit the narrative we’ve already decided upon. 

Srila Prabhupada said clearly he would rather die out on the streets of Vrndavan than to remain in his room, “and be killed by Ravana.”

If someone is going to say, “well if Prabhupada knew then surely he would have done something about it,” then you’d need to look at his request to be taken out of that situation objectively.

PADA: Yes, there is a Ravana in this room, and no doubt other Ravanas or various helpers also in this room. Very difficult position. ys pd

YD: Regardless of people's beliefs, it is an undeniable fact that there has been attempts by envious persons to harm pure devotees. Hari dasa Thakura, Jesus  Christ, etc Prahlada Maharaja, the Pandavas are examples of this. The fact that a pure devotee is protected by Lord Krsna does not stop envious persons from trying to harm them.

FF: Extremely relevant questions and good response from Dhira govinda prabhuji.

All the dots will be exposed by the justice for Srila prabhupad trust -- in due course of time 

B) hijacking iskcon .

C) self appointed pretender gurus.

D ) deviating from Prabhupada's final instructions.

E) mixing and twisting Prabhupaad’s expectations and instructions to suit their own power and guru business franchise.

F) The literally hundreds and hundred of child abuse cases where these so called sanyasis / gurus / etc were directly and indirectly involved .

To have faith in Krishna means to have faith in his timings as well .

ND: There was a young Gurukul boy that over heard senior devotees talking about poisoning Srila Prabhupada. He fled to America later. Tamal went out there to find him. Does anyone know anymore about this?

I can not express enough in words how much I appreciate what you have done and what you are doing Dhira Govinda Prabhu. And thank you so much Narada Prabhu for helping to spread the much needed awareness of this horrifically tragic sad topic. 

GD: Let's pretend for a moment that it is true that "He knew He was being poisoned" 

1.⁠ ⁠Why did Prabhupada not tell Abhiram Prabhu,, his nurse, or others like Gurukripa, who hated TKG, Bhavananda, etc?

2.⁠ ⁠Why would Prabhupada decide NOT to complain and to accept being poisoned, when many of the devotees around Him would have eagerly come to His rescue???

3.⁠ ⁠If Prabhupada had decided to accept being poisoned, which is their clear inference, then he obviously DID NOT WANT THIS REVEALED. So who are they to now contradict Srila Prabhupada's obvious willfully decision? Who  are they to undo what he (purportedly) decided?

ND: Srila Prabhupada was surrounded by persons with a demoniac mentally. Srila Prabhupada said in His own words, "Please do not torture me". That says it all.

MD: G, Good luck trying to reason with this crowd...

SV: Srila Prabhupada told his doctor.

MC: Is the conclusion by the justice foundation that the intent / idea of poisoning SP came (equally) from Bhavananda, Jayapataka, Tamal K and Bhakti C, and that Kaviraja was hired by them to execute the idea?

AD: Narada Pr please make a podcast with Puranjan prabhu (Pada1008 channel), he also highliting ISCKON problems from the beginning and he is a direct disciple of ACBS Prabhupada

BB: Those leaders in ISKCON who at heart know the true story, and there are plenty, should have the guts to stand up and speak out; remaining silent is agreeing with the cover up.

DF: Lace up ya boots, get back to the roots, bulls are the basis...

PADA: OK Nityananda did not "start the issue." I was first to get the tapes in Los Angeles in 1997, and had a Bengali writer make the first transcript -- which was pretty accurate actually. We then sent a copy of the tape to Naveen Krishna, and he got others involved. Later on Nityananda got involved, but none of them originally had any copies of the tape until we made copies and started to mail them out. 

I also made a tape of myself giving the translation and handed them out as well. The tape was given to me by a person who had been right there in 1977, and he said he and others knew the whole time about the issue, but they were too afraid to speak up. I went out with a big sign announcing the issue in front of the 1997 LA Ratha festival, and that started all sorts of people asking me about it etc. Nityananda has done a lot of good work, so has Naveen, and so has Dhira Govinda, but all of them started later, after we launched the issue. 

At the time Narayan Maharaja was criticizing me for launching the issue, and then he invited me to his ashram to discuss these issues, but he left me sitting the whole day without letting me into his room. Then he left the property without seeing me. That is because -- he knew I had a copy of the tape with me, and he would not be able to defeat it. The Bengali writer and later a Brijabasi told me my analysis of the tape was 100% right, and then others followed. They were the original people to validate the content for me. Stating that Nityananda started all this is because they are trying to discredit us, and make it sound like we made all this up, we did not, we have the tape. ys pd

No Isa was working with Narayana Maharaja, who was vigorously opposing me for bringing out the tape. Isa only became involved much later way after I had sent a tape to Naveen, and Naveen was already fully engaged. Isa only spoke after we had the whole thing in motion for some time, and originally he was sympathetic with the Narayana Maharaja crew, who was trying to suppress me. He did not bring out this issue, but he did help later and even Narayana Maharaja admitted the case is valid, although NM never apologized for his suppressing me over the these issues. But Narayan Maharaja was in Texas propping up Tamal, and yelling at my associates for opposing Tamal, when I was in Texas having NM's "dear Tama tree of Radha" sued for $400,000,000. These people may have converted over to my views later, but they never apologized for suppressing me and supporting my oppressors. ys pd

RD: Absolutely not. Ridiculous to even bring it up. All conspiracy theorists out there, listen to this testimony by Satadhanya Prabhu, who was Prabhupad's nurse during his final days.

https://youtu.be/phFkHTO_ZbM?si=MqPZyaNKCSBq2qPJ

FF: Are you in the line to become a guru or a sanyasi prabhuji ???  What more evidence do you want ???

RD:  Are you crazy for asking such a question Prabhuji? Every one of his disciples loved Prabhupad at some level, so I'll never believe that any one of them even in their wildest dreams desired to betray Prabhupad's love, which is why it's ridiculous to discuss such a conspiracy theory but I know that you all have nothing better to do than to waste your time in this way. So I won't go back and forth on this with you but  I beseech you to listen to Satadhanya Prabhu's testimony if you haven't already. This is enough to convince me otherwise.

https://youtu.be/phFkHTO_ZbM?si=MqPZyaNKCSBq2qPJ

SV: what are you hiding brother?

MJ: I am curious about Justice for Srila Prabhupada Foundation's views on the motive for poisoning as an act of euthanasia because those involved could no longer suffer seeing Srila Prabhupada suffering a slow death.

TD: Euthanasia is not allowed by sastra nor is poisoning someone else in an act of " mercy" . Suicide, even if a " peaceful one with the help of any substance" is not allowed. Only fasting till passing is allowed. So sastra say. Painkiller may be considered something else but poison is not accettable.

PH: Oh ...... how pretty you are! You really don't know what kind of people those close "disciples" were and are.  Use your brain !

PD2: The fact nd dropped their petty insult, (and looks like has since been withdrawn) not half way through the podcast, and even before we heard evidence from the recorded conversations, and Srila Prabhupada’s words only strengthens the belief that there are people trying very hard to discredit and silence any investigation. Wonder why?

SC: Good analysis. vedabase.oi

DN: John 19:11 It is believed that Jesus 8 implicates Caiphus head of the Sanhedrin for handing him over to Pilate and the Romans. When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he was the more afraid; 9 And went again into the judgment hall, and saith unto Jesus, Whence art thou? But Jesus gave him no answer. 10 Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee? 11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin. 12 And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.

These actors should cut to the chase. India has in personemm jurisdiction over the case. Can the state prosecute ISKCON or any person(s)? Tamal is dead.

LD: Sat guru just said recently that temples in India are controlled by government.

GD2: Ask Nityananda, the one who started this rumour of Prabhupada's alleged poisoning, why he never interviewed Abhiram Prabhu who was with Srila Prabhupada practically everyday as his Nurse and during a lot of time in 1975, and 1976. He will debunk the entire issue.

JCD: “Caretakers such as Abhiram das and his wife Srutirupa dasi who were with Srila Prabhupada in 1977 have said that if there was a poisoning, they would have seen something. They did not see it, so there was no poisoning? Abhiram was Srila Prabhupada’s nurse for 83 days (July 25-Oct. 16, 1977), but according to the hair tests, the astronomical cadmium poisoning went on for maybe 300 days, starting 6 months before Abhiram began his nurse service and continued after he left. 

He was not on guard by Srila Prabhupada’s bed 24 hours a day, and was not watching all ways in which a poisoning could have been done. He did not suspect poisoning at the time and so was not watching out for it. Obviously, if someone was there some of the time, this can not negate the poisoning that occured unseen to all (including Abhiram) and which is proven by the hair tests. 

Abhiram’s saying, “I was there and I did not see any sign of any poisoning,” proves nothing. Of course it doesn’t work like that. Would a poisoner allow those present to see what he was doing? Countless poison-murder cases were unsuspected but discovered many years after the death of the victim. And the evidence to prove the poisoning that was discovered later is invalid because someone who was there did not see any poisoning? 

“I was in Vrindavan in '77 and present just before and after Prabhupada stated that he was going to stay. I was one of the idiots who thought the crisis had passed and went back to the West for the marathon. Just before leaving, I had to beg my way into Prabhupada's room. Brahmananda allowed me in but for only five minutes. Abhiram wasn't in the room at the time, neither any of the other servants and bigwigs. It was myself, Rupanuga, Udayananda and one other devotee. The big shots were in the back room. So obviously keeping an eye on Prabhupada wasn't so rigid with the servants not being around all the time.” (Vyapaka das, 2017) 

“This poisoning was done in such a way as to prevent anyone from knowing what was going on except the poisoners themselves. That is how criminal poisoning works.” (Naveen Krishna das, 2017)  (Srila Prabhupada’s Hidden Glories, 1.661)

ND: Abhirama was interviewed and in 2024 he is open to the idea...

DM: Prabhu, why don't you listen to the enhanced recordings & examine the evidence? Because if you do you will discover it really happened and all along you have been wrong.

GD: why would anyone record Srila Prabhupada being poisoned and save the evidence?

DM: Your question is an attempt to avoid facing the fact the recording exists and why it exists it not important.  Why don't you answer these questions: Why do you side with anyone who avoids the evidence? Why do you avoid the evidence? Please explain why you side with people who claim Tamal Krsna is saintly, when Tamal is clearly heard in the audio discussing poison & the poisoning of Srila Prabhupada? Why do you love them and lack a place in your heart for Srila Prabhupada, a man they clearly discuss poisoning?

PADA: It is not a rumor, it is statements from Srila Prabhupada -- corroborated with many additional facts, testimonies, forensic experts, eye-witnesses -- including the person who gave me the tape etc. Asking the people who were there, ok depends on who you ask. ys pd

FF: Your query not very important in the context of this amazing array of evidences now available . I hope you can agree?

HK: Just imagine all the missing tapes these poisoners destroyed in 1977, as verified by Tamal Krsna servant >

Read this by his servant >

Gauridasa Pandit, May 24, 2010

“Yes the tapes were monkeyed with. When I got an ‘appointment tape’ for the BBT Archieves in 1990 they had the July 7th conversation first, then the May 28th was spliced in like it was one conversation. There were transcriptions of each separate conversation so I asked how the tape was produced and Ekanath said that’s how they got it. Ramesvara was caught editing other tapes also. Sangita, Siddhanta’s wive has the scoop on that one.

After Srila Prabhupada appointed the ritvik representatives there were tapes of discussions made almost every morning for weeks. I know because I was there recording them! And they are not available at the Archieves! On the ‘Grand Disciple’ statement I believe that was spliced in too ~ from another conversation where TKG asked Srila Prabhupada what his relationship would be to devotees if and when a guru was qualified to initiate on his/her own.”

JCD: “THE MISSING TAPES COVER 7 MONTHS (MARCH–SEPT. 1977) -The months of March thru Aug. have an extremely high number of “no tape days,” and the month of September has no tapes at all. We see that 136 of the 214 days (64%) from the period March 1 to Sept. 30 have no tapes. There are large blocks of consecutive days with no tapes, most notably: (1) 19 days in March while Srila Prabhupada was in Vrindaban and Bombay. 

This is unexplainable because Srila Prabhupada remained quite active with many visitors. (2) 14 days in June, just after the key May 28 appointment tape discussions. There MUST have been plenty of room discussions with Srila Prabhupada in follow-up to the dramatic announcement of an officiating acharya system for initiations after Srila Prabhupada’s departure. This is VERY SUSPICIOUS that there are so few tapes available from this critical time period. Why? 

Also: a staggering 45 empty days from Aug. 18 to Oct. 1. Actually, after July 9, the day of the famous letter, there are only 15 tapes in the next 53 days (28%). This is very unusual. The obvious suspicion is that tape recordings containing discussions and clarifications on the officiating acharya or ritvik system announced by Srila Prabhupada on May 28 were duly recorded but deliberately disappeared. May 28 until Oct. 2, or 4 months, has just 55 tapes while October alone had 62 tapes when Srila Prabhupada was far more ill than in June, July, Aug, or Sept. Four times 62 means May 28 to Oct.2 could have produced ±255 tapes if all things were equal, but it was only 55, or 200 missing tapes. This is just for May 28 to Oct. 2, 1977, not accounting for March to May 28, with perhaps 40 more missing tapes. Where are these 240 missing tapes? They were packed in bundles of 20, so how could 12 bundles be lost, unless it was on purpose? Even though Srila Prabhupada spoke less when ill, the tape recorder was simply left on, and the same number of tapes were produced, albeit maybe with less speaking on them. Srila Prabhupada would daily sit in his garden and receive visitors or talk with servants (he always was speaking)- so where are these recordings? What could possibly explain their absence? We will see that some missing tapes are known to have been made, but are not now available.” (Srila Prabhupada’s Hidden Glories, 1.322)

HK: THANK YOU what a GOOD COMMENT! Actually, Srila Prabhupada is 100% available in his vani and vapu forms. In a letter dated Dec. 14, 1972, Srila Prabhupada wrote, “Next you ask if I am present in my picture and form? Yes. In form as well as in teachings.” And on Sept. 4, 1972, he wrote, “There is no difference between me and my picture”.

FF: 100. ??? Tapes? Absolutely correct.

AN: The frenzy to exploit Prabhupadas facility- temples, farms & devotees continues to this day. Similar to how egotistical Duryodhana chose Krishnas army & not Krishna, the GBC chose Prabhupadas facility & rejected Prabhupada.

FCD: Who exactly are the people (culprits) in this homicidal plot??

F2: Shame, Shame, Shame...

HR: Same ones that still worship them & SUPPORT THEIR CO-CONSPIRATORS like the biggest demon TAMAL & friends like the hunchback of San Diego, the biggest criminal of them all, Badra Narayana swami. They are are still in control of the properties and the money. follow the money you will find them all, cuz its about personal motive.

DM: Why do you not listen to the interview & examine the information?

FL: Jayapatak / tamal / bhakticharu/ Bhavanand

FF: Excellent observation and understanding prabhu.

SCD: A pure devotee like srila Prabhupada can not be poisoned /killed, like haridas thakur, Sri Prahlad, Jesus, Bhaktisiddhanta maharaja, all of them were tried to be killed, thats "normal" in this crazy world..  but sure possible that some tried...

HKR: Use your intelligence “do not Surender it” by reading the evidence posted and listening to Dhira Govinda dasa coming interview here on the Hare Krishna Podcast.

TR: Why not ? is like saying that Krishna was not "killed" by the  poisonos arrow...

ND: Srila Prabhupada was poisoned over a period of time. Anyone else would have perished long before.

VS: Yes. Srila Prabhupada was given poison with intent to kill him, but it does not mean, it was the cause of his death. Ordinary jivas take birth and death due to their karma, but not personalities like Srila Prabhupada. It is a disappearance Lila, not death by poison. A Very Wonderful presentation by Dhira Govinda Prabhu!

MDS: Yes, Prabhupāda was poisoned.

SV: heart breaking to have to accept such a violation, poisoning is the chosen method of killing by women, monks and priests, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja also met such a conspired fate.

TL: It was not food poison. Read the report of the forensic please.

ES: His instructions were also being Poisoned.

Monkey On A Stick Movie / Mahatma / Book Changes 09 29 24

PADA: Tried to fix the tilak on my I-pad.

Some of the AI tilaks are way off.

PADA: Some Iranian women who were celebrating said -- these Nasrallah guys are part of the same thugs who round up women to punish them for not wearing traditional dress. And women are sometimes beaten badly, raped, shot in the eyes -- which does not always kill them but makes for an intense suffering situation, and a number just end up disappeared or dead. 

Wait a minute pilgrims? If the men are the ones with wandering eyes, why aren't they shooting out the eyes of the men, not the women? Yeah, I am with these women, thank goodness that people who are misogynists and woman oppressors are gone. I fully understand why these women are rejoicing. 

And similarly, we know more than a few devotees who rejoice when some of these ISKCON leaders or their oppressor pals, suffer or depart. We also know people who are actually praying they are gone. Women are supposedly maya, but if we punish the women, we are not punishing the actual culprits -- the men -- who are the actual problem -- for being attracted to maya. The person who is attracted to maya is the main problem, not the maya object of attraction. 

Nasrallah was also encouraging the assassinations of India troops in Kashmir, which is why some India TV people are happy he is gone as well. 

ys pd     

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MONKEY ON A STICK RELEASE DATE OCTOBER 2024

https://viff.org/whats-on/monkey-on-a-stick/?

Monkey on a Stick (2024) - IMDb

PADA: The movie people told me that my testimony was the most important and valuable for the film and I "would not get sidelined like the Peacock TV folks did." OK let's hope not. 

They were trying to get it done for early September and then some legal hassles had to be resolved, but it looks like it is on the way now. Even a lot of devotees do not know exactly what happened to ISKCON and why, maybe this will be a good vehicle for them to understand it, at least it might help. Yep, all sorts of people keep saying -- no one listens to PADA, ok but these movie people do listen. ys pd

angel108b@yahoo,com

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First message from HG Mahatma Das after his surgery.

I am writing to thank everyone for your prayers. You have all helped me tremendously. I am slowly recuperating and experiencing some of the deepest realizations of my life. Once I am stronger, I will share more here.

The triple bypass in Alachua was very traumatic on my body. Talking completely exhausts me, and hearing sastra makes me so emotional that it also wipes me out. I am in a different state of consciousness. It feels like I went back to Godhead and returned to this world for more service. I am not the same person now. I’ll talk in about a week.

PADA: Not the same person? But you have promoted your illicit sex with men, women and children messiahs program, which bans, beats, molests, sues and kills Vaishnavas, since 1978. You mean you are quitting promoting your porno swami and pedophiles in samadhi process -- for the children of ISKCON to worship -- as samadhi level devotees? 

Wow. I have been coercing the children of ISKCON to worship my homosexual and pedophile messiahs program, which resulted in allegedly thousands of kids being abused. And then I almost died, but I am coming back -- to continue promoting that self same odious regime? What was learned exactly?

Did I forget to mention, a media person asks me "what is a homosexual and pedophile samadhi"? No one actually knows, except that Mahatma's program concocted that system and process. And I also hope Mahatma realizes, him and his pals are not qualified to be another Jesus and take karma. And this is one of the results of taking karma, you'll get sick.

Mahatma says he is now getting emotional reading the shastra. No kidding, the sahstra says false gurus -- and / or their supporters like Mahatma -- are destined for the most obnoxious regions. I'd be emotional too, knowing that is my destiny, especially since there are thousands and thousands of Vaishnava victims of Mahatma's process. 

Srila Prabhupada says mistreating a Vaishnava is the same as mistreating Krishna, because His devotees are His parts and parcels. And no one can count the number of Vaishnavas Mahatma's program has caused mental and physical distress, devastation, suffering, and even -- leaving the planet untimely. And Srila Prabhupada himself says his pals are giving him "mental distress."

ys pd angel108b@yahoo.com 

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EDITING ISSUE

Look at the extent of his EDITING? This change says the OPPOSITE of what Srila Prabhupada said: it is wholly Demoniac! www.bit.ly/bookchanges2a - side-by-side comparison - please not the portion in the green highlighted block. Same "worst Book Change" With analysis: www.bit.ly/dissolveiskcon4 Srila Prabhupada's view of why they did that: www.bit.ly/sinistermovement0 & www.bit.ly/GBCmisconduct (swipe to see all 15 slides, best viewed in desktop mode) ------ 

Sharing the links for the benefit of readers who do not know the extent of the GBC's full-on rebellion against Srila Prabhupada. Hare Krishna. 

May the blind supporters of the GBC who actually love Srila Prabhupada finally begin to open their eyes and athen attempt to confront their  www.bit.ly/cognitivedissonance to accept these shocking truths, so we may all quit bickering with each other and unite to drive out the GBC from the BBT as per Srila Prabhupada 's desire! 

HDG had said, "Iskcon may come or Iskcon may go, I don't care. Let it be destroyed by politics from within, but BBT must stay!" Note well: not the private corporation which is secretly run and was created by a GBC resolution in 1988! www.bit.ly/secretbylaws www.bit.ly/pppp-logo ~ the original Trusts (1971 & 72) which we love and serve & the replacement Sinister Entities that stole all the assets of Srila Prabhupada - Books ~~> 1988 BBTI Inc & BBP Inc. & - Temples & manpower ~~> 1993 'Iskcon GBC Society West Bengal.' 

We have been royally duped, brothers and sisters! They need tomato-pelting at a public shaming ceremony ... and if we don't get united and give that to them, then we deserve it for totally betraying HDG and allowing his books and all his BBT's wealth to be stolen in broad daylight by fallen souls who want to use Iskcons assets as a vehicle for collecting kanishtha followers who adulate and worship them and blindly do whatever they whimsically wish! 

Sigh! Blind followers of blind Gurus, please read the last paragraph of Srila Prabhupada 's Purport to NOI Text 5.... "disciples of Gurus who are not uttama Adhikaris must know that they cannot go back to Godhead under his insufficient guidance"! https://bit.ly/noitext5purport

Thus Spake Hansadutta 09 28 24

"I WAS ONE OF THEM"

Thus spake Hansadutta.

Hansadutta never held back when we spoke because he considered me to be a "made man," a sold-out follower of Prabhupada. Yet, today, as he reminisced, he was filled with regret. He delicately expounded upon the modus operandi that he and his fellow self-proclaimed "divinities"--the Eleven Zonal Acharyas--had adopted as ploys to attract new followers--most of whom would eventually leave their new gurus high and dry, anyway. Or vice versa -- since it became a game of who would abandon who first.

PADA: Right, Ramesvara, Bhagavan, Bhavananda, Satsvarupa, Jayatirtha, Hansadutta, Harikesh, Giriraja, Hrdayananda, Jagadish, Kirtanananda and many other big shot ISKCON leaders -- basically made a giant mess of ISKCON, and then "blooped out." No accountability. "Took the money and ran" so to speak, sometimes grabbing a girlfriend on the way out the door. 

Great job, except when they meet Yamaraja. And Jayatirtha, Hansadutta, Tamal, Kirtanananda and others are no longer here. And some of the remainders are physical and mental basket cases. They did not "save ISKCON" rather they turned it into a giant mess, and they fell into all sorts of problems themselves by imitating the acharyas.  

Brimming with remorse, as he sat on the sofa, he confessed why his thousands of admirers -- his initiates -- could not make the dharma Prabhupada gave us into their life and soul. Reaching into the paper bag that always accompanied him, a confirmed alcoholic, he pulled up a bottle of Mickey's Malt Liquor. Slowly, he took a sip, sighed, and replaced it resolutely. He never hid his addiction for cheap beer from me.

PADA: Right, we all had to be banned, beaten, sued and maybe killed, so that the GBC could place a womanizing drunk on the Vyasa seat, to be worshiped as good as God. Some people had to be assassinated, gurukulis had to be abused and some were commiting suicides, so many different victims suffered, just so the small group of elite leaders could sit on a big chair for a few years and be worshiped artificially.

By that time, around year 2000 I had known Hansaduta for thirty years. He said that I was one of the people who he ran into all over the world, and I was too close a friend to hide his faults from. He needed someone with whom he could be honest, and tell his story as it is. That is what differentiated me from thousands of other teeny-boppers whom he had once trapped into a cult mentality. 

As a guru, his scene was more like a cultish spider's web than a path to back Godhead. Hansaduta called me "his advisor," yet -- truth be told -- Hansadutta was never one to take advice. Anyone who got too close to him would get their fingers burnt because he could turn on anyone who entered into his confidence. 

So I kept him at arm's length. But if he ever had the capacity to take advice, then he would have adhered to the instructions of his spiritual master -- our Guru Maharaja Shrila Prabhupada. In such a case, he would have endeavored to represent the Teacher rather than himself. He would not have become a shooting star that had fallen from the splendid Vyasa Asan he used to embellish. 

PADA: Good. Sometimes people ask me "well jeepers prabhu, why don't you fix these thing internally, and not make a big public spectacle expose." Because -- they won't listen to us? That leaves our only option -- to expose them. 

Instead, Hansadutta would have been leading crowds of singing, dancing, joyous devotees on street corners "in every town and village." Instead, today he was sitting dejectedly before me with two six-packs in the bag.

PADA: A once glorious movement of worshiping God and His pure devotee devolved into worshiping drunks and womanizers. And Hansadutta will be held accountable to creating that situation. 

He continued to confess, "Across the board, our methods were ultimately similar, though we mostly despised each other due to envy. The more we tried to show our differences, the more we became the same. Simply put, that is why we needed zones. We attracted a following of temporary believers by convincing tenderfoot zealots that each of us knew Prabhupada better than the other guy in the zone next door. 

It was that simple. And by doing that to these people, we became the opposite of the spiritual masters we were supposed to be. We became obstructions rather than the transparent via media to the previous acharya that Prabhupada wanted us to be."

PADA: Never mind all the banning, beating, molesting, lawsuits and murders became public media spectacles, and the entire movement was discredited. And then people no longer wanted to even visit the temples. They made Krishna unpopular, which is the aim and object of asuras and deviants, to turn people away from God. Very dangerous karma here.

He continued, "Prabhupada taught us that a spiritual master is meant to illuminate the path to the previous acharya in the sampradaya. And for us, this is really what we should have been doing, but none of us were humble enough. Fools rush in where wise men fear to tread. Basically, we were nothing but an assortment of mlecchas posing as paramhamsas. And everyone could see it -- except ourselves."

PADA: They knew they were phonies the whole time, that means they were intentionally and consciously ruining the lives of devotees, and ISKCON, and the name of ISKCON.

"Shrila Prabhupada has given us so many volumes of instructions, yet we ignored them and tried to compete with Krishna's empowered representative by declaring ourselves as the next empowered acharyas in the line. And that is how we became obstructions, rather than gurus, on their road back to Godhead for those whom we attracted. We enticed a bevy of cheap following, and we wound up with the expected consequences. 

Few newcomers could see through the mess, although thousands of our Godbrothers and - sisters knew what was happening. That is why they had to be eliminated. But our own followers never really understood Srila Prabhupada because we zonal acharyas emphasized our own imaginary qualifications, instead of giving them what was really important -- love of the genuine spiritual master. 

PADA: Yes, they diverted the followers away from worshiping a pure devotee, to worship themselves -- ok maybe debauchees, drunks, and fools. I can barely think of anything more sinful than to destroy the spiritual lives of thousands, or even millions of people, just to get some temporary and artificial mundane glorification, just to end up drinking beer and buying a slice of pizza from the pizza shop.

That is how we eleven all failed to a man. By posing as pure devotees, we failed ourselves, our disciples, our spiritual master, and ultimately Krishna. And I was one of them."

It was actually a big deal that he could confess the obvious. It is said that the last person to see his own flaws is the person himself. He was only explaining what thousands of Godbrothers and Godsisters had known for decades. We, their presumed "rank and file" had been tossed to the Kali Yuga wolves of a rabid world to make way for a flock of sheep that was supposed to be newer, better, heavier, more than the previous generation. But something had gone wrong because a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

"I gotta go, Patit" he concluded suddenly. He was like that -- he could come clean with great repentance like someone on the verge of suicide, yet turn as though he had something really important that needed doing and make a swift exit.

"I'm off to get a pizza at Valencia Street, but I'll save you some slices on the way back," he said as he was out the door. He hopped into his little Honda, and sped down Columbus Avenue like nothing unusual had transpired, leaving me down at the tee shirt table hawking my wares to the San Francisco tourists. It was another day over at Fisherman's Wharf.

SOME THOUGHTS: The conclusion would have to be that those who came along after Prabhupada disappeared, yet were attracted to Prabhupada, succeeded. This is proof that His Divine Grace remains with his followers, all of whom are actually his disciples despite being from successive generations. Those who were attracted to cheap gurus, and a show of false divinity, fell away--by the thousands.

Patit Pavana dasa.

Hansadutta Letter to Kirtanananda

Singapore, 2. October 1993

Dear Kirtanananda Maharaj

Please accept my humble obeisances.

I thought now is the time to remind you of what you said to me upon meeting you at New Vrindaban after my fall from Guru and Sannyas. Seeing my condition, and anticipating the ensuing chaos and confusion amongst the new disciples, you said, "This is why I suggested so strongly that ISKCON should adopt the RITTVIK process of initiation for the new Gurus!!" It has been a long time since then, but after all is said and done, I have personally realized the truth of this statement. Rittvik representatives is all that PRABHUPADA ever sanctioned us to be -not ACHARYAS or GURUS.

After years of anguish and confusion over this issue, I have by the mercy of Prabhupada, come to take shelter in his instruction: "Act as Rittvik of the Acharya." I think it is time for me to repay the debt I owe you for giving me shelter when I was so broken and lost in my spiritual life.

I humbly suggest you consider the fact that Prabhupada never authorized us to be Gurus, but restrained our ambition by designating some men to act as his deputies, or Rittvik representatives. Better late than never. Give up the false posture of Guru Acharya and consider acting as the humble servant of the Acharya, as a Rittvik representative. That is the solution for you and all the ISKCON Gurus.

If you step back, resume your sadhana and service attitude towards Srila Prabhupada as his rittvik representative exactly as you used to do for him when he was still physically present, then most devotees will probably stand by you. Many will return to your guidance. You have nothing to lose by taking this humble position, except the false prestige of being a guru acharya, which is haunting you like a ghost.

New Vrindaban is a wonderful place, and it was built under your charge, but only because the devotees were empowered by Prabhupada, on account of their sincere desire to serve him (Srila Prabhupada). In other words, they enthusiastically accepted so much sacrifice, penance and austerity to help you build New Vrindaban, because they saw your sincere determination and desire to please Prabhupada.

Of all the godbrothers, you have accomplished the most monumental task by the building and development of New Vrindaban community. On the other hand, you now stand on the precipice of the total ruin of all you have accomplished, if you obstinately stick to your false posture as the acharya and guru. The godbrothers are waiting like vultures to devour you, New Vrindaban and all the devotees, because more or less all of them are haunted Prabhupada the same ghost of false prestige, thinking, "I am the guru, and all should serve my feet." has remarked the fast two pitfalls of maya are to think one's self as God and the other is to think one's self as guru. Hansadutta das 

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Hare Krishna everyone!

I want to clear up some misunderstandings. A few months before my 18th birthday, I decided to leave my family due to problems i faced with them . I was given a safe place to stay by Srutakirti Prabhu and his wife, Vishakha Sakhi Devi . I had only known Vishakha mataji from working with her in the Deity Care department, but she was very kind and helped me.

My parents later said I was kidnapped, but that’s not true. I was living peacefully with Vishakha’s mother and was going to the Krsna Balarama Mandir every day. My parents knew about it.

Because of these accusations, I had to choose between going back to my parents or staying in a girls’ shelter, which felt like being in jail but was my choice. When I turned 18, I was finally released, thanks to Guruprasad Maharaja and many other devotees who helped me.

It makes me sad and angry to see their support being attacked on social media. I just want to practice Krsna Consciousness as taught by Srila Prabhupada, and move forward in my life.

I also want to address the rumors about Harinama and her son Govinda Harris . They have been very supportive, and Govinda is a wonderful Vaisnava. Any rumors about our relationship are completely false. I’m upset by the gossip and the assumptions people have made.

Thank you for understanding and respecting my choices.

P Devi Dasi

PADA: Wow. To be a teen ager in the middle of all this mess must be quite a challenge. Lots of hoops and hurdles. We hope this young lady can get fixed on Srila Prabhupada and stay with his shelter, and move forward. This is what we said earlier, unless the original trauma problem is addressed, there will be trauma passing down on to the next generation, or generations. Hopefully, she will have a better foundation to pass on. ys pd

Srila Prabhupada Poison Issue (VIDEO) 09 27 24

 

PADA: This is a question we get all the time, why does Krishna allow people like Srila Prabhupada to be poisoned? Why does Krishna allow all these ISKCON children to suffer and be abused? Why does Krishna allow all sorts of evil things to over take ISKCON, or even -- overtake the entire world at present -- He seems to be allowing all sorts of evil famines, wars, floods, fires and so many other evil things. 

There is no simple answer -- except maybe, Krishna facilitates the desires of all living entities. And even when those desires are evil, they are sometimes allowed to be manifest. At the time Srila Prabhupada was being poisoned, more than a few people knew something bad was going on, but they remained silent. One of them was in fact the very same person who later on gave me the tape. Evil was going on, a number of people knew, but those folks -- did not act.

Early on, a lot of people knew these 11 were not behaving like acharyas, so they could not have been given that post. But those people remained silent or worse, tried to attack those of us exposing these things. I mean almost the whole society knew Jayatirtha was going off the rails, and he could not be any form of acharya, early on. Widely known.

Many also knew that Kirtanananda was lecturing that the real Jayatirtha is serving Krishna purely, and the false Jayatirtha is not a real problem, just like there is the real and false Mother Sita -- and this was a total concoction and insult to Mother Sita. But people were handing me his tape of that lecture telling me it explains everything nicely. OK so these folks wanted to be in illusion, and God allowed and facilitated their illusions. 

Same thing with the child abuse issue. I was warning about it in the early 1980s, and almost all the people just did not want to hear about it. And so, evil prevailed. Then again Jesus was crucified because evil was allowed to take over. In any case, I think a lot of people went along with the ISKCON evil doers, and that expanded their program exponentially. 

And then a lot of people just sort of surrendered to allowing the evil to take over, as it did. In sum, man proposes and God disposes, and so we have to be careful what we propose.

Of course, no one, absolutely not one single person anywhere at any time, is actually getting away with participating, supporting or acquiescing to any of this. The people who did the evil, and the people who co-opted or assisted the evil, and the people who compromised with the evil, and the people who just walked away without protesting the evil, will all be taken into account, in their karma bank account. 

Their crimes of commission or omission will not go unanswered. In sum, evil people do evil things all the time, and unless the good people check them, restrain them, oppose them, contain them, they will eventually take over. 

My friend said ISKCON is the same thing he has seen in prison. Five or six guys form a gang, then they have a lot of combined power, and then others join the gang -- to siphon off the group's powers for their own agendas. And then more and more people eventually join the gang, and the gang grows and grows, and finally is running the whole prison. Not enough people opposed, and many materially benefited by working with the gang. 

Anyway, we are where we are now, and we have to deal with it. Yes, this is what Krishna has allowed, but that does not mean He agrees with any of it, or that this is what He wanted. Some evil people wanted evil, and not enough people opposed, and the gang took over the prison. Not a surprise actually. 

ys pd angel108b@yahoo.com 

Sridhara Maharaja: "None should protest":

Our program of having people

worshiping pedophiles and poisoners as God's messiahs.

Amazing layers and layers of illusion here.

Why Did Krsna Allow PRABHUPADA TO BE POISONED?

It is, of course, vital to understand that Srila Prabhupada’s disappearance pastime is transcendental n the same way that Sri Bhismadeva left his body at will, in a cocreated pastime with Sri Krsna. Thus, we use phrases such as, “Srila Prabhupada was given poison with homicidal intent by persons close to him”, and in the subject line we place “assassination” in quotes. 

The more we delve into the details of Srila Prabhupada’s disappearance pastime, the more we’re moved and awed by the compassionate Jesus-like qualities he showed, fully aligned with saints in our line of bhakti, such as Sri Prahlada Maharaja, Sri Vasudeva Datta, and Srila Haridasa Thakura.

Often during the past 27 years or so, we’ve heard things like, “Srila Prabhupada couldn’t have been poisoned because he’s a pure devotee”. While we certainly appreciate the recognition of Srila Prabhupada’s pure, divine, and fully transcendental nature, there doesn’t seem to be much of a logical or sastric argument in the statement quoted above. 

Sri Krsna and His pure devotee can arrange disappearance pastimes through, crucifixion, a bed of arrows, apparent physical disease, or in so many ways. So, we ask rhetorically, how is it that Sri Krsna and His pure devotee are not capable of enacting transcendental disappearance pastime through apparent homicidal poisoning? 

It might seem unfathomable to even conceive that Srila Prabhupada could have been poisoned by persons close to him who rendered him so much service. We empathize with those feelings, and simultaneously, it’s true that studying Srila Prabhupada’s words, it’s actually not especially surprising that such a horrific event could have occurred. 

Srila Prabhupada often used the English expression, “Familiarity breeds contempt” (for example, April 20, 1972 Room Conversation; Sri Caitanya caritamrta (CC), CC Antya-lila 13.39 purport; CC Madhya-lila 12.212 purport). Let’s hear further from Srila Prabhupada.

“So as Krsna was attempted to be killed…And Lord Jesus Christ was killed. So they may kill me also.” – Srila Prabhupada Room Conversation, May 3, 1976, Honolulu.
“…in this Age of Kali, there are many mundane persons in the dress of Vaisnavas, and Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has described them as disciples of Kali. He says, kali-cela…” – Sri Caitanya caritamrta Madhya-lila 1.220 purport 

“There are many jealous people in the dress of Vaisnavas in this Krsna consciousness movement, and they should be completely neglected. There is no need to serve a jealous person who is in the dress of a Vaisnava.” - Sri-Caitanya-caritamrta (CC) Madhya-lila 1.218 purport

“The poison is personal ambition.” Letter from Srila Prabhupada, Nov. 1, 1970

Mahatma Health / Hindu Quotes / Book Changes 09 26 24

Mother Yasoda would laugh at Krishna's antics as a child.

PADA: Alachua's devotee community is getting hit to some extent by the hurricane there now, with some devotees already reported losing power to their homes. We have some friends there and pray they will be safe. Kali Yuga is getting worse, that is all there is to it. Of course, there are also some devotees living right in the direct path of the storm's worst parts, and one can only hope they got out of there in time. ys pd  

HG Mahatma Das’ Health Update, September 26, 2024

Jaya Srila Prabhupada!

The medical team reports that he is progressing as expected. Some tubes have been removed, he walked a little, and he ate a small amount. The recovery process for this procedure is long and difficult, so please continue your prayers, blessings, pujas, and kirtans. They are carrying him through.

Your servant,
Radhapriya Devi Dasi

PADA: Yep. After dedicating their lives to promoting the worship of illicit sex with men, women and children, and / or drunks, porno swamis, dope heads etc. as God's gurus / messiahs etc., many or even most of the GBC leaders fell down, got sick, or died prematurely. Or all of the above. 

And part of that is -- (a) the offense of making conditioned souls into God's successors; (b) part of that is -- the intense suffering they caused all sorts of Vaishnavas by orchestrated banning, beating, molesting and even killing some of them; (c) part of that is their accepting karma from disciples that they are not qualified to absorb; (d) and probably another part of that is the fact they derailed Lord Chaitanya's movement and made it into a series of scandals and bad public media, and made it devolve into a sort of sahajiya / de facto Hindu process. OK another part is that this cabal may have poisoned their guru. 

All of these horrible things have combined to create a lot of suffering in this "guru" group, either mental, physical, spiritual -- or all of the above. And Mahatma is simply another one of this group. A PADA reader was telling me the other day, most of them have just gone totally bonkers, they have lost their intelligence altogether. They misused their intelligence, and now it has been lost. I agree.

What some people don't seem to realize is, we cannot offend Krishna and His parampara by making fools and debauchees into His alleged successors, and then pray to Krishna to save the offenders. That is not how it works. The offenders are going down, one way or the other. No one can save them, except themselves, by doing some heavy repentance and admitting that they are not Krishna's successors. 

While riding my bike on my japa ride, some guy stopped me frantically and asked me if I had seen his dog come this way. His dog had been hit by a car, and the dog had one eye popped down out of his head, and it was limping and bleeding. Ummm no, I must have missed that, thank goodness, I did not have to see that dreadful scene. Sheesh pilgrims. That is the result of forgetting Krishna, and probably making some offenses too. 

I have no idea why someone would want to make debauchees into Krishna successors, since even this guy who was looking for his damaged dog knows -- we cannot promote deviants as God's successors -- yep even he knows -- there will be severe reactions. 

And being a dog hit by a car is simply one of several billion problems a person can endure by offending Krishna and His parampara. Why would anyone want to take that risk? Yep, fools rush in where angels fear to tread, no kidding. Just having Mahatma's best pal "porno swami" Gunagrahi buried in the dham is going to take these folks into a dog's body, after they suffer worse reactions in lower births on lower planets. Did I forget to mention porno swami had a long suffering battle with cancer, which some folks said was "because he took too much karma." Duh-oh! 

Meanwhile, most everyone agrees they just wanted to make ISKCON into a Hindu show bottle:   

"You may call the Vedas Hindu, but "Hindu" is a foreign name. WE ARE NOT HINDUS." (Sri Isopanisad Introduction)

"Simply we are teaching that 'Become God conscious.' God is neither Hindu nor Muslim nor Christian. He’s God. And WE ARE ALSO NOT HINDU or Muslim or Christian. This is our bodily designation. We are all pure, part and parcel of the Supreme." (BG Lecture NY 23/11/66)

Prabhupada: (chuckles) And that mataji, she has taken land. I don't like that idea. Some Hindus are supporting. I don't want a Hindu temple. Our constitution is different. We want everyone. Krsna consciousness is for everyone. IT IS NOT A HINDU PROPOGANDA. People may not misunderstand. And actually, till now IN OUR SOCIETY THERE IS NOT A SINGLE OTHER HINDU THAN ME. (laughter) Is that not? (Meeting 9/6/69) New Vrindavana)

Lord Caitanya, He said that “I am not a brahmana. I am not a Christian. I AM NOT A HINDU. I am not a sannyasi. I am nothing of this sort.” Then what You are? “I am the servant’s servant’s servant of Krsna. That is My identification.” And when you identify yourself in that way, you are liberated. That is Krsna consciousness, perfection of Krsna consciousness. (CC Lecture New York 21/12/66)

angel108b@yahoo.com

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Dialogue on Book Changes #2

BY: VYAPAKA DASA

When A Man Is So Sure He's Right - Part 1

Recently, a discussion between His Holiness Jayadvaita Swami (JAS) and myself (Vyapaka dasa) regarding precedents and authority for posthumous change to Srila Prabhupada’s books was undertaken via email. Portions of those emails were recently published on the Sampradaya Sun.

JAS’s last email never received a reply and this essay addresses points found in that and other correspondence. The reply is lengthy and will be published in four parts.

The first subject to be discussed is as follows.

SRILA JIVA GOSWAMI AS A PRECEDENT FOR POSTHUMOUS EDITING

JAS writes in an April 28, 2006 email to myself (Vd) regarding an alleged precedent of posthumous change to an acarya’s work:

JAS writes in an April 28, 2006 email to myself (Vd) regarding an alleged precedent of posthumous change to an acarya’s work:

"> Okay. The fourteenth chapter of the Bhakti-ratnakara contains a letter
> from Sri Jiva Gosvami to Srinivasa Acarya in which Srila Jiva mentions
> he was editing Srila Rupa Gosvami's Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu. The letter
> was written after Srila Rupa Gosvami's physical departure from the
> world.

"(Vd in a previous email) >>Do you have examples where the writings of great vaisnava acaryas on Srila Prabhupada's level has been edited posthumously?

JAS: I provided you an excellent example and asked: Is that good enough for you?

You (Vd) replied: No. Definitely not. You are comparing your actions to those of Srila Jiva Goswami? I see.

"To satisfy you, what I need to find is an example in which the writings of a great acarya were posthumously edited by an idiot whose editing was approved by great souls.

"That's why I asked earlier whether, if the answer to your previous question were yes, your thinking would change or I would just be wasting my time.

"You have answered my question.

"And you have persuaded me that going further with our correspondence would be pointless.

‘When a man is so sure he's right that no evidence would be enough to change his mind, there's no use of further discussion.

‘That appears to be where you stand. And so I beg your leave.
"I wish you well in your devotional service to His Divine Grace.
Hare Krsna. Goodbye."

We apologize to JAS for wasting his time but unfortunately, we remain unconvinced by his argument and logic. His evidence regarding precedent within our tradition for posthumous change amounts to one letter by Jiva Goswami. Rationally, one would expect that additional examples would be cited if available. We will base our arguments on JAS’s presentation that no other examples exist.

Therefore, Jiva Goswami had no precedent for posthumous change. So, if no previous authority posthumously edited an acarya’s work, then the only reasonable deduction, for this to be a precedent for JAS, is that Jiva Goswami acted upon his own initiative to edit Srila Rupa Goswami’s writings, after receiving no order to do so.

This is necessary because JAS admits that no instruction was given by Srila Prabhupada to posthumously edit his books. So, an order by the spiritual master (in this instance to Srila Jiva Goswami) must be lacking in order to qualify as a precedent for JAS.

Similarly, if Jiva Goswami was instructed to edit by Rupa Goswami before his departure, or that he never edited the Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu but offered a commentary, then Jiva Goswami’s editing or writing also cannot be claimed as a precedent by JAS.

Queries have been made to different scholars of the Goswamis and one has opined that Jiva Goswami likely edited his spiritual masters’ work, Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu. However, he emphasized that the editing was limited to adjusting Sanskrit meter, etc.

Jiva Goswami was the most prolific and scholarly of all the Six Goswamis. As will be seen, he edited and commented on a wide variety of spiritual literature.
Srila Prabhupada informs us in a Caitanya Caritamrta (C.C.) purport:

"...This is described in the Bhakti-ratnakara. As far as our information goes, Srila Jiva Goswami composed and edited at least twenty-five books. They are all very much celebrated, and they are listed as follows: (1) Hari-namamrta-vyakarana, 

.... (12) a commentary on the Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, [added emphasis] .... After the disappearance of Srila Rupa Goswami and Sanatana Gosvami in Vrindavana, Srila Jiva Gosvami became the acarya of all the Vaisnavas in Bengal, Orissa and the rest of the world, and it is he who used to guide them in their devotional service."(C.C., Adi-lila 10.85, purport)

In the same purport it continues:

"Srila Jiva Gosvami strictly followed his predecessor gurus [added emphasis]." (C.C., Adi-lila 10.85, purport)

That a direct reference to this situation is found in a Srila Prabhupada purport is important. If indeed, Jiva Goswami polished the Sanskrit, Srila Prabhupada seems not to see it as noteworthy and thus highlighted his commentary.

JAS states in the Vedabase that: "At the highest level of authority we can place Srila Prabhupada's books. These are the works in which Srila Prabhupada formally presented for the world the message of the scriptures and the previous acaryas. It is these books that form the very basis of the Krsna consciousness movement." (The Bhaktivedanta Vedabase: What to Make of What You Find by Jayadvaita Swami)

We agree with JAS that the information contained in Srila Prabhupada’s books is our highest level of authority. So, we must conclude that Srila Jiva Goswami, based upon information provided in Srila Prabhupada’s purports, did not edit the substance of Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, but simply offered a commentary.
Part 1 b to follow