Monday, December 2, 2024

Bangladesh Update / A Few Quotes / 12 02 24

BANGLADESH DETERIORATING

PADA: More Hindu temples and homes being burned, people being beaten, Hindus houses being ransacked and burned etc. Don't worry, the India government is taking it up at the U.N. Really? Yep, unfortunately this has been going on for decades and there is no concrete plan from India. 

Also, some of the Journalists who were reporting these attacks on Hindus were detained, evidently because the government doesn't want this news to come out. ISKCON is in the middle of all this, and it looks like they also don't have much of a plan to address any of this either. 

If ISKCON said this Chinmoy guy is not a member, he is a child molester, then why were 4 brahmacaris bringing him food and medicine? This does not look right either? OK they don't have any organizational skills at work here. 

Who is in charge of this mess? And evidently, 30 ISKCON workers from India (West Bengal?) were caught with false documents in Bangladesh. Also not a good sign. Anyway, we predicted a long time ago that chasing out all the senior management of ISKCON would lead to trouble down the road, and -- it has. 

My friend in South America said it is the same thing there, the temple he had been going to used to have 50-60 people, now it has 3. Very devastating consequences of making conditioned souls into acharyas. Anyway, it is what it is. And we have to figure out how to try to stay at least moderately sane in a world that seems to be coming unglued, from ISKCON -- to all the rest of it, with all the serious conflicts going on everywhere. 

Well at least we have some clue Who is ultimately the ruler of all this. And while it looks like a giant mess to us, if we zoom out to looking at earth from -- lets say Neptune -- then we would realize how insignificant this whole planet is. But at the same time, I have to say it is sad that Lord Chaitanya's glorious movement was hijacked and contaminated. And I believe the people responsible will be held accountable eventually. 

And one of the big mistakes of ISKCON has been -- claiming it is part of the Hindu religion. That is why it is in so much trouble in Bangladesh, and other places, now.

ys pd 

angel108b@yahoo.com  





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Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura Mahasaya from "Bhakti Tattva Viveka".
In the depths of jnana, vairagya and so on, and behind all religion, lies… the desire for honor, name, fame, distinction and adoration.

To the degree that we endeavor to develop ourselves spiritually, to become religious, to maintain a renounced life, and to deliberate on and discuss jnana, we desire our own pratishtha (honor and distinction). This desire contaminates our hearts and pollutes our characters.

Although we make a great effort to control lust, anger, greed, illusion and envy, and although we perform severe austerities to control the senses, concealed within our hearts the desire for pratishtha, in the form of a wild infant animal, continues to grow.

I learn ashtanga-yoga with a desire to become a famous yogi. But if anyone one tells me that my yoga lessons are merely… a show, I burn in anger.
I discuss and deliberate upon many sastras in my endeavor to merge into brahman. But if I hear someone say that this process is… fruitless, my mind becomes disturbed, and I condemn the accuser.

We learn ten kinds of dharma, such as control of the mind and the external senses, austerity and truthfulness, and in carrying out our worldly activities we perform daily obligatory religious duties (nitya-karma) and occasional religious duties (naimittika-karma). But if someone says that karma-kanda is simply… useless labor, my mind suffers; I become unhappy because my pratishtha is being made to appear insignificant.

Those who desire bhukti and mukti are restless and slaves of the desire for pratishtha

When the karmi, jnani, yogi and so on search in hope of attaining the fruit of enjoyment and liberation, how can they have any peace? They cannot relinquish the desire for pratishtha. This desire is very insignificant, however, in those Vaishnavas who have no thirst at all for bhukti and mukti.

Present-day Vaishnava acaryas desire pratishtha and are intolerant. Nowadays, the acaryas of vaishnava-dharma cannot tolerate the slightest disrespect. From the outset, they endeavor to enhance their dignity by placing their feet on the heads of all. It is not unreasonable for an acarya to receive respect from others. But if he courts that respect for himself, where is his real value? Furthermore, he becomes angry with someone who does not offer him sashtanga-dandavat pranamas, full prostrated obeisances. Such anger is abominable.

=====

Srila Prabupada...."Unless the dirt within the core of one’s heart is cleansed away, one cannot become a pure devotee. Therefore the word sudurlabhaḥ (“very rarely found”) is used in this verse. Not only among hundreds and thousands, but among millions of perfectly liberated souls, a pure devotee is hardly ever found. Therefore the words koṭiṣv api are used herein. Śrīla Madhvācārya gives the following quotations from the Tantra Bhāgavata:

nava-koṭyas tu devānām
ṛṣayaḥ sapta-koṭayaḥ
nārāyaṇāyanāḥ sarve
ye kecit tat-parāyaṇāḥ

“There are ninety million demigods and seventy million sages, who are all called nārāyaṇāyana, devotees of Lord Nārāyaṇa. Among them, only a few are called nārāyaṇa-parāyaṇa.” {Pure Devotee} King Citraketu's Lamentation :
SB 6.14.5 : PURPORT : by Srila Prabhupada

*******************************************************************

Srila Prabhupada...“One must accept the words of an ācārya, a bona fide spiritual master, to clear the path for spiritual advancement. This is the secret of success. However, one’s guide must be a spiritual master who is actually an unalloyed devotee strictly following the instructions of the previous ācārya without deviation. Whatever the spiritual master says must be accepted by the disciple. Only then is success certain. This is the Vedic system.” (Cc Madhya-lila 10.17 Purport)

ISKCON Disbanding the Child Protection Office? 12 02 24




PADA: Thanks AMD prabhu, yeah they are making more lawyers take over management positions. And they sued the KBI so at present there are no original books being printed. Yes, they are hiding behind a wall of lawyers. They don't care what the mass of devotees want, and they never did. 

We were all booted out to make room for the false gurus and their legal enforcement program. Gaudiya Matha also made a big legal defense program. Unfortunately, many children have ended up being victims of their policies, never mind the temples have suffered, the original books have suffered, and the whole of ISKCON has suffered. Yeah, they don't care. ys pd 

angel108b@yahoo.com

SRD: BREAKING NEWS!!!

THE GBCs ARE DISBANDING THE INTERNATIONAL CPO!

At the beginning of 2024 I made a short video expressing my concerns because it came out that the GBCs were planning a hostile take over of the CPO.

I recently found out that the specific details of their plan are far more sinister than anything I had imagined! Over the years GBCs have repeatedly assured the devotee community that they would refrain from interfering in CPO matters.

After they decided to meddle with the Lokanath case to ensure he would receive a preferential treatment the GBCs again renewed their promise that 'Hence forth they would never again interfere... Only to jump right back in to help Keshava Bharati.

This year at the annual Gaura Purnima GBC meetings, they again went back on their promise by announcing that they were going to force Kamlesh Krishna Prabhu into involuntary, early retirement at the next annual meetings in Mayapur.
The GBCs arbitrarily decided that the post of the CPO Director ought to be the only position in ISKCON to have term limits.

They assured the devotee community that they would find a suitable replacement.
We are now only a couple of months away and the GBCs still haven't found a replacement...

This is because there will be no replacement!

I was just informed that the GBC plans to disband the international CPO and outsource its work to a new committee headed by a lady called Govinda Lilamrita devi dasi. The committee is made up entirely of people with legal backgrounds.

To the best of my knowledge none of them have any significant training or experience in the field of Child Protection, inside or outside of ISKCON. I get the sense that these lawyers do not have the slightest idea of the magnitude and complexity of the task they've signed up for.

The typical lack of transparency on a change of this import to the community is alarming in and if itself. The fact that the GBCs believe that lawyers, who are inexperienced in child protection, could somehow fill the boots of the ICPO tells me what they have already amply demonstrated, which is that child protection IS NOT a priority for them.

The fact that these devotee lawyers would even entertain taking on a task of such enormity and importance, knowing full well that they are not even remotely qualified, does not speak well of them.

--------------------------

At present the CPO works with the standard known as 'preponderance of evidence' generally used in civil cases. My forecast is that these lawyers will raise it to the standard 'beyond reasonable doubt', used in criminal cases. Criminal courts use this exacting standard, because the punishments they can award are extreme.

However, this makes no sense whatsoever here, given that the only sanctions the CPO or GBCs can impose are a suspension of luxurious privileges. This singular change will unfairly favor the perpetrators and bring no benefit to their victims.
I expect that these lawyers will retroactively apply this new standard of evidence to review the cases of the individuals they would like to see exonerated like Laxmimoni and Keshava Bharati.

There is a group of die-hard supporters of Laxmimoni and Kesha a Bharati, made up of senior denotes. From the very beginning they have campaigned to ensure that their favorite child abuser got exonerated at any cost. Even if it meant trampling over her victims and dismantling the CPO.

This group includes Hridayananda Maharaj, Badrinarayana Swami, Jayadvaita Swami, Sivaram Swami, Malati and Radha Dasi. These changes will be devastating, they will catapult ISKCON Child Protection back to the stone ages.
May Lord Krsna protect His devotees!


ZZ: Surely this post of ICPO and / or CPO is better placed as an independent body investigating the activities of GBC within ISKCON? How can a post Which is filled from within satisfy justice and the plight of objectivity?

AD: Yes, but how does an independent body get the authority to investigate and police the GBCs?

ZZ: hummm... well on the grounds of child protection should be an independent agency and should be able to investigate.

AD: You only have authority to investigate someone if they recognize your authority. Hypothetically, if you were to open your own investigative body and come to my house asking questions, I will only cooperate if I accept your authority to do so. Without my cooperation you wouldn't get very far.

DD: I Just wrote this to Anuttama

Hare Krishna. Jaya Srila Prabhupada.

Credible sources are telling us that when Kamlesh Krishna completes his service as CPO Director, there is no intention to replace him. Rather a team/panel of lawyers will oversee these matters.

Is this true?

I cannot understand the logic - not in any charitable way anyway.

Kamlesh and Gandharvika have qualifications in child protection. They not only were victim-friendly but also put on preventative/educational seminars. What backgrounds do these lawyers have that equip them for this kind of sensitive work? Will they be approachable for victims? The reputation that most of them have is that they side with the accused and the institution and only want to consider evidence that proves "guilt beyond reasonable doubt" (i.e. a tougher standard than civic cases such as preponderance of evidence).

It's going to look a lot like Kamlesh and Gandharvika were pushed out for not being obedient to GBC directives - and that they were starved of support and resources whilst in office. It's going to look a lot like the institution is moving away from the interests of victims - and keeping children safe - and circling the wagons to take care of the movement's reputation and the reputations of the leaders (even those who offend).

How do you see this working?

Of course, you may claim that we have been misinformed - that all of this is baseless - and you might still have time to elect a new course.

Trust remains rock bottom in the institution's leadership - and its woeful handling of abuse matters is perhaps the most egregious of its failures.

Will there be any comms on any of this? How will the Society's leadership convince the general mass of devotees that it's truly committed to not only eradicating abuse but also to handling cases with integrity?

SF: Damodara Dasa It seems to me they don't care about optics, because they know that there is an issue with general mass or majority of devotees not caring enough. Or either not caring at all enough, maybe not caring enough to be "voting with their feet" (or donations). Unlike all other human religious community by now had enough decency and humanity to chose.

All others seems to already have either reached or reaching critical mass of conscientious decent human beings, who cannot tolerate the rot anymore. But ours?

DL: Agree.

MG: DD prabhu with all respect to your endeavours but this is like trying to play electrical guitar without turning amplifier on. This Anuttama guy is one of the main players there, he will never be on your side

DD: His reply confirms the truth of the plan. Furthermore he acknowledges that this plan has not factored in - thus far - the concerns that I raised. It’s a tacit admission of problematic thinking. That is a useful thing to have out in the open

SF: suspect that maybe we didn't ever have just the case of " fish is rotting from the head " problem.spreading just from the top. I think we / ISKCON always have had cadre problem. It is like those rare Muslim countries with "female circumcision." It is like a medieval spectators watching "witch" burnings for entertainment.

It is like masses of soccer hooligans vandalizing everything in their path.It is like soccer hooligans and neo Nazi skinheads stomping children in public to death. It is like mass rapes of civilians in Bosnian, Vietnam, African wars. It is like Taliban recently; and few decades ago even rural Turks buying up to 4 young virgin wives. Like they are livestock.

CL: DD thank you for your efforts. I feel these guys want what they want, and feel that they are untouchable. Nothing can be said to them, unless a yamaduta personally appears to them. This I'd love to see. My conviction now is that they will continue to lord over their minions, do as they please, and protect their 'friends'. There is no real principled decision making, no righteousness. And probably never has been any, their "concern" was all for show.

I have no belief in GBC, therefore an ISCKON who still follows them. I sadly have no desire to step inside ISCKON Mayapur EVER again. By some miracle, may this change when these hooligans die, but of that I am also losing hope. I really appreciate your dedication, care, and tenacity. 

RMD: Go directly to the police. Never trust that Iskcon management will care for the devotees. Our only chances are to file a complaint with the police before sharing any information with anyone outside your direct family.

VRD: This is what I have been thinking of, if Iskcon will do injustice, then devotees will have to seek justice from local authority legally. Let the culprits go to jail. Maybe this is what our Lord Krishna wants. Enough of protecting these vile rascals.

SF: Often predators are wealthy- and their lawyers can make great difference in court.

SND: I went to the police, the perpetrator confessed, but Iskcon still ignored all the evidence. I don’t see any hope anymore.

SF: Yea like Alan Dershowitz defended Kirtanananda, and was helping Jeffrey Epstein secure controversial plea deal.

RG: Headlines such as the expose of other false gurus need to be commonplace. Btw this guy was a high profile guru but couldn't escape justice unlike hordes of pedophile and murderous godmen elsewhere.

May be an image of 2 people and text that says 'Asaram Bapu gets life imprisonment in rape case The 81-year-old self- -styled godman Asaram is serving life sentence in Jodhpur jail for raping minor girl at his ashram in Rajasthan in 2013. Updated February 01, 2023 12:21 am IST- AHMEDABAD MAHESH LANGA Asaram Bapu. File Read in App Gandhinagar sessions court sentenced self- styled godman Asaram Bapu to life imprisonment in connection with 2013 rape case.

RFD: Through someone connected to top level GBC I was told their twisted way of thinking, the gist of it: that only in America is striving for truth important. That in other cultures, if someone molests a child, no one demands to know the details and they don’t make an example of him, they let the offender be so that they don’t embarrass him, and he can still participate in village life, but they’re all aware that he has issues and they keep an eye out. They truly believe this.

RG: Unsurprisingly one can see that God cannot be found via worship of a network of wrong doers hiding in grand marble structures inside big brick and mortar institutions.

AV: Perhaps preparing also for what's coming??? Just a thought. Shocker, just when you think it can't get worse...

NYD: Go to the POLICE from now on. When they have cops showing up to temples and gurukulas and getting all the bad publicity - they'll wish they never disbanded it. The only thing the lawyers will be protecting is ISKCON'S money - making sure the victim doesn't sue or giving the perpetrator legal advice to keep them out of trouble!

PLK: "Even if it meant trampling over her victims and dismantling the CPO. This group includes Hridayananda Maharaj, Badrinarayana Swami, Jayadvaita Swami, Sivaram Swami, Malati and Radha Dasi." Brahma Tirtha Dasa (Bob Cohen) of "Perfect Questions, Perfect Answers" fame was also instrumental in this unfortunately.

FR: Call the civil authorities immediately when an alleged violation occurs on temple property. If a person in a leadership role has an allegation against them with a minor, call the civil authorities. Give donations only to your local congregation and restrict them if you do. In writing demand what the money is to be used for. Tell the board of they accept it, they accept it on your terms.

EN: Clear and logical. Thank you for informing us.

MJ: They (the GBC, tps, "gurus????"), pay lip service to child protection while shoring up their cosy little money making scams. Tell me about it!!.

DN: This appears to be a beuracratic folly of musical chairs. Hold on to power and waste as much time so no cases become adjusted.

AF: The management's first obligation is to protect the interests of the institution, hoping that when outsiders look at the institution they won't notice the discrepancies. But I'm also aware that the CPOs, and especially their local temple representatives, need some serious training on how to legally address issues. If not done properly it could lead to complications for ISKCON. Probably best to let the courts handle it.

NH: What needs to happen is criminal negligence charges need to be filed when the opportunity arises if it hasnt already. Real consequences need to take place.
Some how this needs to touch their capacity to earn income. Maybe then theyll take it really seriously.

DNK: Time to make more documentaries. Expose them.

PDN: What is the problem?

SS: From ceto darpana marjana to simply an eyewash.

RS: ISKCON is a very corrupt organisation that needs shutting down.

SGD: Time the GBC is held to account, legally or overthrown - is there no legal way to hold them to account (the ones that are the bad apples)? - or internal policies to deal with this corruption- if not then there needs to be!

CLP: Having only lawyers deal with victim abuse cases does not put the victim at the heart of the dealings. This is extremely unprofessional and inappropriate.

DLD: Weaponzing "clever" lawyers against victims and witnesses so anything controversial will be automatically squashed and double talked out of existence. Anuttama Dasa and friends, we see right through you.

MLD: Dark forces inside ISGONE don't want predators to be removed and gladly accept further child molestation. Very dark.

LD: All these corrupt people are not an exception, they are the norm in ISKCON.

PD: I think the only solution is to advise victims (or their guardians) of any form of s*x offenses within ISKCON is to make a legal criminal complaint with law enforcement. Law enforcement has their own teams to deal with such issues. In 1997, when we were having ISKCON sued for $400,000,000, the leaders -- like Badrinarayan, Giriraj, Hrdayananda, Amarendra, Jaydvaita, et al. were all gathered in a flock on the Watseka sidewalk yapping away merrily. 

When I came around the corner on my bike, they all went silent, and they just glared at me in silence. In other words, their lawyers had advised them -- not -- to speak to me. Anything you say to this guy -- can and will be used against you in a court of law! The only guy who did speak something was Jayapataka. He came out of the temple -- roaring at me like a wounded elephant -- as he ran towards me -- screaming -- rahhhhhhrrrrhhhh! 

I thought he was going to break me in two. But at least he made some sound. He just ended up silent and glaring at me as well. So they lawyered up a long time ago. And if they have made a NEW team of lawyers to be the new "advisors" on all this, I don't think anyone should be surprised. But yeah, a number of people including media folks have asked me, why wasn't the entire GBC sued for fraud, criminal negligence, orchestrated child mistreatment, corrupting the morals of minors etc. -- a long time ago? 

Meanwhile, the Jayapataka people wrote a complaint to me -- that I have cost ISKCON $100,000,000 by my helping various lawsuits. Lets face it, they spare no expense on their legal program. But there was evidently not enough money left over to buy shoes, food, medicine and things like soap -- for the kids. If you want to be well taken care of in and around ISKCON, and have a nice new Mercedes and the latest $4,500 Armani shoes, you'd need to be their lawyer. Then you will be well cared for. Otherwise, not so much. Same reason they asked the GBC members to agree to a non disclosure of the contents of their meetings, they are getting the advice of lawyers. Of course the M A F I A folks also hire the $900 an hour lawyers, same process. ys pd

YDD: I cannot believe that I gave my life to this iskcon. How shameless can these fellas be? They're not even pretending to be saintly.

KSD: I feel the same. Gave the best years of my life, made my children traumatized. All for what?

SRD: At least they're honest about their deception...

Sunday, December 1, 2024

Bangladesh is a Mess Update 12 01 24



PADA: ISKCON CPO has come out saying that the person at the center of the Bangladesh controversy "Chinmoy" is a child molester. Oh swell, it seems almost like "child molester" follows "ISKCON" like a shadow. And then PADA gets blamed for making ISKCON look bad, when all of this is public media information. 

I cannot confirm if he is a molester or not, but it is not a good look for the public in any case that such a prominent person is linked to child molesting. And it thus looks like the GBC is not doing "due diligence" in vetting its people or spokesmen etc., --- again.  

Well yeah, ISKCON and other Hindu organizations feed the folks having floods and other problems in Bangladesh, and then the same people they feed come and attack the Hindus later. That seems to be true. 

Meanwhile the "Chinmoy Krishna dasa" person at the center of this current crisis was evidently once part of ISKCON, but after he was arrested for sedition, ISKCON seems to have dropped all connection to him. Thus Chinmoy Krishna das is now being condemned by ISKCON's CPO as a child sexual abuser. This always begs the question, how long ago was this discovered? And could something have been done earlier to disconnect him from ISKCON?   

Oh oh, and that child molester issue seems to be a recurring problem with others in ISKCON of the West Bengal area. Some say -- it looks like this child abuse issue was made recently as trumped up charges to disconnect him from ISKCON. 

I don't know, but the whole thing looks like a big mess. A few people have said he deserves to be arrested and should get bad karma because he is a molester. Well maybe, but that is not going to actually fix the problem of Hindus being repressed over there. Nor is it going to fix the problem with ISKCON having child molesters sprouting up here and there, and everywhere.

And Hindus have been slaughtered in purges in various other places in the past, and that possibility still hangs over them now. So it is not good that Hindus are persecuted anywhere -- and India seems to have a weak policy on helping them. Just look at Kashmir. Too little too late, and it is still not very safe, or settled there. 

Meanwhile, some of our Hindu friends in Bangladesh told me they are not able to flee to India because Modi is not allowing Visas for these Hindu folks to escape, and worse, India is tightening the borders to not allow the Hindus to leave. It looks like India is not intervening properly. 

If the Hindus are going to be attacked violently in Bangladesh, and stabbed, maimed, raped, burned alive or killed etc., then India should get in there and protect them. If not, get in there and protect them temporarily while they evacuate them. Doing nothing but clamoring at the UN is not a useful solution. We are going to fix this at the UN is probably the worst fake out false flag that could be suggested at this point. 

Meanwhile, at least some people in India are protesting to have this Chinmoy person liberated from jail. How it will all end is hard to predict, but history has shown, being weak when people are being attacked, encourages more attacks. Protesting is good, but not very effective with corrupt or violent criminal type people.

Yeah I know -- it is all karma etc. but it is also karma for the leaders who should do something, but who do not take appropriate action to save their fellow religion members. A military protected evacuation scheme seems to me to be the easiest and safest path forward. And that should have been done to protect Hindus in other examples, it would have saved a lot of lives. India seems to wait for some divine intervention or the UN to fix all this, and that never happens actually. 

But hey, being a Hindu has its problematic side, and flip-flopping, acquiescing to bad actors, indecision and inaction in a crisis is one of those issues. It seems to come with the package. Oh yeah, and the ISKCON GBC behaves about the same way. 

That being said, I wish for the best for ISKCON and the Hindus over there, they are in a rough situation and it looks like it is deteriorating. As for ISKCON over there, they have also got some heavy karma to pay for promoting their homosexual and pedophile guru lineage in Lord Chaitanya's land, and this crisis might be one of the methods being used as payment. 

Overall, ISKCON seems to be having one crisis after the next lately, and that might be a sign Krishna is getting fed up with their whole bogus show bottle guru operation. And yeah, Srila Prabhupada says -- when a guru has an affair with a follower -- it is the same as a father having sex with his daughter, that would make a whole bunch of them -- like Giriraja -- also child molesters de facto. 

It is rampant in that society and that is why we believe that society is going to have more problems going forward, Krishna will start to clamp down on the whole mess, and it looks like, He is. 

The good news is that PADA is gaining more contacts and associates in various places, and Krishna is arranging a sort of awakening and awareness of all this, and it is progress, albeit slow but steady. There is only one path to Krishna, we have to worship the pure devotee, whereas worshiping the GBC's molester messiah's project will take us to molester loka and not Krishna loka. That is just the truth of the matter. 

ys pd

angel108b@yahoo.com 








PADA: First of all, the people of India and -- or Bangladesh should know that making ISKCON's GBC approved leaders into their official and -- or un-official "Hindu" representatives is a huge mistake. Why? Because ISKCON's GBC and -- or its GBC leaders and -- or its gurus and -- or those approved by the GBC as leaders -- has enabled decades long mass child mistreatment on "an industrial scale." 

And ISKCON Mayapur is perhaps one of the places that has been the worst example. And ISKCON has had numerous predators and exploiters posing as its leaders, teachers and "sum total of the demigods gurus"; and it has harbored predators and their enablers for decades. In other words, before ISKCON leaders can clean up problems for the Hindus, ISKCON needs to clean up its own problems first. 

And the Hindus who are using these ISKCON leaders as their direct or de facto spokesmen are making a huge error. The Hindus should be demanding the leaders of the ISKCON child mistreatment process be removed to clean up ISKCON first and foremost. Instead, the Hindus are largely promoting and worshiping the ISKCON leaders and gurus of this odious child mistreatment process. 

In sum, the Hindus need to select better leaders, gurus and representatives for their cause. They are not using good discrimination by having these ISKCON GBC leaders act as their representatives, and it is hurting their own cause. And Srila Prabhupada told us -- that is one big reason Bangladesh is suffering so badly, the people there selected bogus gurus and avatars as their worshiped personalities, and that is giving the whole place "bad karma." 

And the bad karma will not end as long as they keep selecting bogus people as their leaders, representatives and gurus. ys pd