Bhagavat Maharaja and Bhaktibandav Radhe Kunj

Thank you S Dasi.

GH and others, who have been traumatized again and again, need our support, not condemnation and quotes. Otherwise, we're doing the same thing that was done in Iskcon, covering up the abuse, and sooner or later it will backfire.

Many of our peers committed Suicide. How hopeless they must have felt. My Loving pranam to you for so carefully and lovingly approaching this very sad, but very real issue.

"Jai sri sri guru gauranga jayatah!

Dear devotees,

This has been a difficult but necessary letter for me to write.

For those of you who are my friends, you know how much affection and respect I had and have for Premananda Prabhu. How he has been a big part of most of my adult life, shown me nothing but affection and inspired me in many ways which makes what I have to say now all the more difficult.

I want to make it clear that this letter is not an attack on Premananda prabhu, Radhe Kunj or on those who are under his guidance. And nor is it an attempt to ascertain his adhikara because I do not have the qualification to do so.

Rather it is my long overdue attempt to acknowledge and support Gaur pran and others who have been either molested by or have had uncomfortable contact with Premananda prabhu. Some may ask “why address this publicly?” I haven’t used Facebook for almost 4 years so why now?

For the most part, my brothers and sisters from Radhe kunj, like Sita Thakurani, have responded to this discussion in a respectful and thoughtful manor.

And while I don’t agree with everything Sita Thakurani said, and nor do I think she addressed the main points in the Venu Gopal prabhu’s letter, I appreciate her mood.

However, there are some people who have publicly and privately tried to create guilt, fear and shame in the heart of Gaur pran and others by using manipulative language to try and silence them.

They have bullied and shamed others like Ramani Shiromani who was brave enough to speak out knowing that some of her dear friends would turn on her. I understand that this behaviour may be a result of them privately struggling with their own doubts and fears, but it is cruel and inexcusable and has forced me to speak out.

I can no longer live with the silence that has sat like a weight in my heart and on my conscience for the past 5 years. Name calling, demonizing, ostracizing, will not create a healthy outcome for any of us. It will not help the victims of sexual abuse or the perpetrators. It may bring you accolades from others within your group because you have shouted the loudest and taken up the role of defender of the group, but it will not bring you peace in the long run.

I would be a hypocrite if I didn’t acknowledge that in the past, I have also held that same sword in my hand in defense of another group.

I know very well how excruciatingly painful it is to face the weakness of those we have placed our faith in. To be forced to either deny to ourselves the things we know are wrong so that we can stay within the group, or to risk considering the questions asked by our conscience which could lead to us losing our community, position, dear friends, home, maintenance, and identity.

I have been through all of this, and it was one of the most difficult periods of my life, but it lead me to a more solid ground and was the beginning of uprooting my misplaced faith and of attempting to offer it at the lotus feet of my beloved Gurudeva where it is safe and where it belongs. So in hindsight I’m very grateful for such suffering.

This letter is not a call for a mass exodus from Radhe kunj. I see how inspired you all are and that much of this is because of Premananda prabhu. In no way am I ignoring all the good he has done and continues to do.

This is very much a part of who he is. I am just requesting you to consider for a moment how your fierce denial of his molestation is not only harming his victims, but also him, and that such denial will pave the way for institutional abuse of all types to go ignored and undetected in the future because we are unwilling to create a safe place for those involved to ask for help and heal.

By elevating Premananda prabhu to the position of a “pure devotee”, your need for him to be just that, makes it almost impossible for hm to come forward, admit his mistakes and ask for help.

Gaur pran was brave enough to stand up and say what happened to him, and rather than receive the love and support he so greatly needed, he was labeled “mad”, “a liar”, “out to destroy Prabhuji”, and in the process he lost most of his community and childhood friends. I can’t even imagine how that must have felt.

And more recently his latest post regarding his abuse has subtly been classified as un-Krsna Conscious, and that it would be better for him to serve Thakurji, chant, distribute books, stay quiet and not seek justice. This is what a “good devotee” would and should do.

How can any of us stand in judgment of how he or any other victim of molestation chose to deal with their trauma. We are not only devotees but humans with very real emotions that need to be attended to.

If the victim is guilted into believing that their anger, shame, and hurt is wrong, and that to pass naturally through the healing process, which looks different for every victim, is somehow maya, how can they be expected to reach the stage of forgiveness?

If we don’t provide a safe space for the victims of abuse, how will they be inspired to continue to stay around devotees and continue on the path of bhakti? I feel angry and sad that the only real option open to them is to step outside their community for support and help.

When you give your love and faith to someone, whether it’s a preceptor, guide, husband, parent or teacher and that trust and love is broken, it breaks something in us too.

If that grief is not attended to, if we take shelter of a philosophy not to heal but to avoid dealing with our pain, then there is a danger of becoming disconnected from our emotions and of us deeply hurting others by our behaviour. Hiding behind philosophical statements in order to justify and feel comfortable with our unhealthiness will one day catch up with us.

In a healthy society, such open discussions remain respectful. As a family we should be able to talk about our weaknesses without judgment, without denial, and somehow figure out a way to heal and prevent such abuse from happening in the future.

I believe it is possible to have positive confrontations, that we can demolish the toxic and unhealthy habits in our society and allow something new and beautiful to grow in their place.

I pray that for the rest of my time in the material world, Gurudeva, and other pure Vaisnavas like him, remain my sole shelter. And that any assistance I receive in my bhakti from those who are not fully pure is seen by me in the proper perspective so that I can honour them appropriately."

S dasi

PJ: Lord Chaitanya said there are no pure Brahmanas in this age of Kali... paedophile are very good at manipulating their way into management positions ... so many ISKCON Sanyasis have been found guilty of child abuse ... you need to stop worshipping imperfect men as if they are as good as God ... or you will never solve the problem of child abuse in ISKCON... HARE KRISHNA

DD: yes, the acharya say it is actually an offence to praise a neophyte devotee as if he were an uttama adhikari because it simply creates a disturbance in society.

NR: Interesting that all through that thread about Bhagavat Maharaj no one noticed that the event he was attending was promoted by Bhaktabandava, a project connected to Premananda Prabhu and his followers. Now, Premanda Prabhu is [allegedly]  a molester of boys, and most everyone in the group is aware of it via G’s speaking out. G wasn’t lying. The group even went on to open a gurukula for little kids in Vrindavan - how safe.. Why is maharaj covering up for Premananda Prabhu?!

DD: good question

PD: Bhagavat Maharaja himself has said he has had to become independent of the other NM sanghas, because he does not agree with the other splinters of the Narayana Maharaja camp. That means he knows about "problems with gurus" in those camps. And we have been told -- there are some sensual predator swamis in their camp. Yet he is not coming out clearly saying what those issues are. For starters, saying that deviating people are children's gurus and acharyas, and yet they are not following properly, is misleading children's spiritual direction and affection process right out of the gate. 

It is destroying their connection to Krishna, which is condemned in shastra. Children should never be told to love, serve and worship deviating people as their messiahs. It is misguiding, if not destroying, their spiritual lives. Many of the children here -- who were told to love deviating "gurus" -- presently -- detest the religion. It is psychological abuse. 

Narayana Maharaja was in Texas telling everyone to worship Tamal, and some of the ex-children from that situation told me they have been struggling with drinking alcohol, and -- considering taking their own lives. One of the ex-Texas kids is a good friend of mine, and he tells me about his mental struggles all the time, including that he has come close to taking his life a number of times. Other ex-Texas Krishna kids around here now eat meat -- and they just detest the whole religion. That is because they were psychologically misguided -- in addition to -- some of them got physical mistreatment. 

And Narayana Maharaja was doing the same thing, he knew there were troubles with these GBC gurus, but he went on defending them, and yelling at shouting at my associates for objecting. That means, he was knowingly misdirecting children's spiritual connection to Krishna, and the results have been one tragic consequence after the next. Knowingly leading the blind into a ditch is very sinful. ys pd

NR: Srila Narayana Maharaja knew and Srila Prabhupada also knew. But big mouth PD goes cricket on the later, doesn’t he?

PD: Srila Prabhupada said it should be contained, whereas Narayana Maharaja said we should worship the perps and their enablers as gurus. And NM was himself one of the enablers, hanging out in Texas with Tamal. 

Srila Prabhupada never said we should worship perps and their enablers as gurus. Nor did he say we should we force little children to worship same as gurus. There is a difference between the order to contain child mistreatment and orders to worship the perps and enablers as gurus, and to have children worship perps and their enablers as their messiahs. Srila Prabhupada never said perps and their enablers should be worshiped by children as their messiahs. 

And I do not believe Bhagavat Maharaja does not know about "the troubles" in the process he is telling children to worship. Or if he does not know, he has been hiding under a rock for the past decades. Srila Prabhupada never ordered anyone to worship perps and their enablers as their gurus and messiahs, he said this would ruin people's lives, and it has. 

He said it should be contained, not worshiped. Where does Srila Prabhupada, or Krishna, say we should tell children to worship perps and their enablers as Krishna's guru successors? But you are right, as soon as I said there is a child mistreatment problem, the followers of NM said I was a big mouth aparadhi, they defended the regime. Then they made pretend they wanted to resolve this by having me meet personally with NM, and he left me sitting all day without seeing me, he could not answer even one question on these points, and neither can his followers up to the present time. Instead, it looks like they are spreading the same disease in their own camp. ys pd

JS: It is better to be spiritual than religious, because the trouble with the mathasssssssssssssssssssss is that the stupid are Cocksure and the intelligent are full of Doubt and Fear. 

NN: You did not help the kulis.

PD: Yep, that is what they all said when I first started, blah, blah, blah. I got the gurukulis some money at least by helping start the steering committee for the Turley lawsuit, after I got several million for other victims in 1986. Windle Turley told me he never would have started the case unless I agreed to come to testify in court, if he would need that. 

And I also provided him many documents and testimony to forward the case. I believe some of my documents are still found on his site now. And I advertised the case in my newsletter which is how many kids got to sign up. I am sorry that there are people who think the kulis who thanked me for saving their lives -- were not worth saving. That is the real problem isn't it? And some of the kulis wrote to tell me -- the Turley settlement money saved them from being homeless, got them a vehicle and etc. 

And what help exactly have you, or anyone else, given them? Saving people lives is -- ineffective? Jeepers! No wonder we had to have this process sued. And after the case was filed, many children were pulled out of the GBC schools. You guys wanted them to stay there, to their peril, that is the better plan? And then some of them thanked me for getting them yanked out of there. But no, they should have stayed. Why is that always the better plan? ys pd

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Unfortunately quotes the changed Gita, but the point is well taken ..

JEEVA SOULS

The jiva-souls being “generated” from the "marginal plane" does NOT mean the jiva-souls “originated” from a beginning source because the jiva-souls were NEVER created.

"Generated" means the jiva-souls are part and parcel of a category of living entities called the "marginal living entities" (marginal plane) who eternally exist as individual spiritual PERSONS.

This also means the jiva-souls did NOT originate from the impersonal brahmajyoti, tatastha-sakti or the Body of Maha-Visnu.

The jiva-souls NEVER appeared from anyone (including Krsna), or some source called tatastha-sakti because they were NEVER created, the jiva-souls are eternal like Krsna who has ALWAYS existed.

Furthermore, the jiva-souls NEVER originated from the impersonal (inactive) brahmajyoti or the Body of Maha-Visnu (both an already fallen condition the jiva-souls fall too Prabhupada explains)

Srila Prabhupada - "So this temporary material world is the taṭastha (materially conditioned) characteristics, and the spiritual world is the permanent (personal) characteristics. So our effort is to get out of this taṭastha (materially conditioned) characteristics and enter the permanent (personal) characteristics. That is called spiritual elevation." (Lecture CC Madhya-lila 20.354-358, New York City, Dec 28, 1966)

Srila Prabhupada - "Because the individual soul is apt to fall down sometimes under the clutches of māyā, it is called taṭastha śakti." (Lecture BG, Ch 7 Text 4-5 Bombay, March 30, 1971)

Maya or material energy does NOT exist in the spiritual world however, free will always exists and allows the jiva-souls to make their own decisions, offerings, contributions etc and even accept or reject Krsna if they choose.

Srimad Bhagavatam explains the fall down of the marginal living entity (jiva-soul) from Vaikuntha into the material creation in the 4th Canto Chapter 28 text 53, where the Supreme Lord is disguised as a brahmana.

The brāhmaṇa said - "My dear friend, even though you cannot immediately recognize Me, can't you remember that in the past you had a very intimate friend? Unfortunately, you gave up My company and accepted a position as enjoyer of this material world." (SB, Canto 4 Ch 28 text 53)

The brahman effulgence (impersonal brahmajyoti), is a "fallen condition" the jiva-souls fall down too but can never remain in that "fallen condition" eternally.
Eventually, they are forced to leave that dormant inactive condition because the nature of the jiva-souls is to always be "active" in the service of Krsna and NOT remain inactive.

So, eventually the fallen jiva-souls leave the impersonal brahmajyoti and again take birth in the material world.

Revatīnandana dasa - "Srila Prabhupāda you very clearly explained to me once in a letter that if the jiva-soul then goes into the brahmajyoti, he is considered still fallen. Still fallen. Does that means the whole brahmajyoti is composed of fallen souls? You see my question? If I go there, I'm a jīva-soul, and I go to the brahmajyoti I'm still fallen."

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes."

Revatīnandana dasa - "That means all jīva-souls there in the impersonal Brahman 

(Brahmajyoti) are also fallen souls?"

Srila Prabhupāda - "Yes, existence in the impersonal brahman is also within the category of non-Krsna consciousness. Those who are in the brahman effulgence are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition (Goloka-Vrindavana and Vaikuntha). The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness.'' (Letter to Revatinandana, LA 13 June, 1970 and 1971 London)

We are all "old souls" because the jiva-souls have always existed without any beginning point nor will they ever cease to be.

The jiva-souls are eternal spiritual living PERSONS and can never be destroyed, terminated or extinguished, the jiva-souls are indestructible.

There was no beginning to the marginal living entities (jiva-souls) existence, nor will there be an end as Bhagavad Gita As It Is explains.

The jiva-souls are eternal spiritual living PERSONS and can NEVER be destroyed, terminated or extinguished, the jiva-souls are indestructible.

Srila Prabhupada – “There are no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how can there be new souls?” (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 9 July 1970)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; nor in the future shall any of us cease to be.” (BG, Ch 2 text 12, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “As the embodied soul continuously passes, in this body, from boyhood to youth to old age, the soul similarly passes into another body at death. A sober person is not bewildered by such a change." (BG, Ch 2 text 13, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “O son of Kuntī, the nonpermanent appearance of happiness and distress, and their disappearance in due course, are like the appearance and disappearance of winter and summer seasons. They arise from sense perception, O scion of Bharata, and one must learn to tolerate them without being disturbed." (BG, Ch 2 text 14, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the nonexistent [the material body] there is no endurance and of the eternal [the soul] there is no change. This they have concluded by studying the nature of both." (BG, Ch 2 text 16, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “That which pervades the entire body you should know to be indestructible. No one is able to destroy that imperishable soul." (BG, Ch 2 text 17, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - “Neither he who thinks the living entity the slayer nor he who thinks it slain is in knowledge, for the self slays not nor is slain." (BG, Ch 2 text 19, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "For the soul there is neither birth nor death at any time. He has not come into being, does not come into being, and will not come into being. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." (BG, Ch 2 text 20 “corrected” 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "O Pārtha, how can a person who knows that the soul is indestructible, eternal, unborn and immutable kill anyone or cause anyone to kill?" (BG, Ch 2 text 21, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "As a person puts on new garments, giving up old ones, the soul similarly accepts new material bodies, giving up the old and useless ones." (BG, Ch 2 text 22, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "The soul can never be cut to pieces by any weapon, nor burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind." (BG, Ch 2 text 23, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried. He is everlasting, present everywhere, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same." (BG, Ch 2 text 24, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "It is said that the soul is invisible, inconceivable and immutable. Knowing this, you should not grieve for the body." (BG, Ch 2 text 25, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "One who has taken his birth is sure to die, and after death one is sure to take birth again. Therefore, in the unavoidable discharge of your duty, you should not lament." (BG, Ch 2 text 27, 1983 edition)

Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "Some look on the soul as amazing, some describe him as amazing, and some hear of him as amazing, while others, even after hearing about him, cannot understand him at all." (BG, Ch 2 text 29, 1983 edition)
Bhagavad Gita As It Is - "O descendant of Bharata, he who dwells in the material body can never be slain. Therefore, you need not grieve for any living being." (BG, Ch 2 text 30, 1983 edition)

Srila Prabhupada – “There are no new souls, new and old are due to this material body, but the jiva-soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth, how can there be new souls?” (Letter to Jagadisa dasa, 9 July 1970)

If the jiva-souls choose, they CAN stay in the temporary decaying material universe's cycles of birth and death and cycles of annihilation and creations for an almost infinity!

There is no origin to Krsna's marginal energy (an unlimited number of individual jiva-souls), who have existed for as long as Krsna has existed, which is eternity.×**×.